Final Fantasy Hacktics

Projects => Completed Patches => Topic started by: johnmyster on August 15, 2017, 06:49:03 AM

Title: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on August 15, 2017, 06:49:03 AM
10/28/2017: Proper v1.10b released.

v1.10 unintentionally left out the Skip Events ASM. 1.10b has it back in.
v1.10 links have been removed to help avoid confusion.

10/28/2017: Proper v1.10 released!
Patch a fresh FFT ISO.

Lots of changes here:

9/25/2017: Proper v1.03 released!
Patch a fresh ISO as always.

Changes:

8/31/2017: Proper v1.02 released!

Changes:

8/23/2017: Proper v1.01 released!
As always, remember to patch a fresh FFT ISO.

Changes:

8/21/2017: Images resized to 4:3 ratio!
Apologies to all who were triggered by the widescreen images. :P

-----------------------------------

(GameFAQS topic (https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/75672737), including play-by-play from philsov.)

After years of work and dozens of hours of editing and playtesting, I am finally ready to introduce my Final Fantasy Tactics patch: Proper.

Download:

v1.10b (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11789.0;attach=16726)
v1.03 (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11789.0;attach=16704)
v1.02 (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11789.0;attach=16656)
v1.01 (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11789.0;attach=16650)
v1.00 (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11789.0;attach=16637)

Mirrors:

DataFileHost.com (v1.10b) (http://www.datafilehost.com/d/a405598e)
DataFileHost.com (v1.03) (http://www.datafilehost.com/d/5ec0f1ed)
DataFileHost.com (v1.02) (http://www.datafilehost.com/d/29afb172)
DataFileHost.com (v1.01) (http://www.datafilehost.com/d/8cf426ec)
DataFileHost.com (v1.00) (http://www.datafilehost.com/d/5b3db93a)

(http://i.imgur.com/3Tqt0nl.jpg)

Proper is a patch made with vanilla FFT as its base. When in doubt, the patch looks towards its vanilla origins for inspiration and guidance, like an apprentice to a master. Yet with time this apprentice has grown and surpassed its master, as well as taking influences from other patches, performing the following:

Every job, ability, story battle, and item in the game has been looked at, and looked at again for purposes of balance, fun, and variety. Questions like,
"What is the purpose of this ability/job/item?"
"How does it compare to others in the same or different categories?"
"Does it work?"
"Is it fun?"
"How is its power for both early, mid, and end-game level?"

have all been asked all throughout Proper's development.

(http://i.imgur.com/WvnGwGD.jpg)

As a result, almost every job, ability, and item in the game has been modified in one way or another. Some, like the chain vest, simply gained a single health point. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Rafa and Malak's skillsets have been completely reworked. All item, job, and ability descriptions have been edited to reflect their changes.

(http://i.imgur.com/w0eUi9f.jpg)

When you start playing Proper, here are the main things you will notice:

1. Jp costs for abilities have been severely reduced, and Gained JP UP removed.

Many classes have free abilities that cost 0 JP to learn, often for abilities that are either core to the jobs playstyle (Haste, Cure, etc.) or not very useful to begin with (Any Weather, Gilgame heart, etc.). Strong R/S/M abilities (that haven't been removed completely), such as auto potion and two swords, remain at over 300 or 400 JP. If you end the game around like 75, you should have gotten most of the abilities you wanted but still occasionally finding yourself having wanted one that wasn't unlocked.

2. Monsters are much stronger, often sporting higher hp, movement, and range.

A few, like the trees and dragons, have gained some new innate statuses like fly and regen. Innately undead jobs and monsters have had their undead status removed but many of its perks and drawbacks retained, like immunity to poison. To follow along the spirit of vanilla, these units now have Initial: Reraise.

(http://i.imgur.com/lYBYU04.jpg)

3. The game is now consistently challenging, but not overly oppressive.

At least, that's the design philosophy around Proper. Of course, your experience can and will vary as different jobs and combinations are tried out that I haven't anticipated. Some battles have been made a bit easier than surrounding battles to give the player a small break.  :lol:

To promote a sense of progress and player control over the game, I let most enemies in story battles remain at a fixed level. This level, however, is usually higher and the gap between vanilla and Proper enemy levels increases as the game goes on. Chapter 1 story battle generics top out at around level 10. Chapter 2, 23. Chapter 3, 44. Chapter 4, 88 (67 before the final Orbonne battles). For an optimum experience, I recommend playing through the story battles until you get a bit stuck before grinding for a couple levels / 250 JP or whatever and then trying again. Of course, you can play however you like.

4. The game looks exactly the same.

No fancy new sprites or palette swaps here, though I would like a proper title screen with at least the patch's name on it but I don't know how.  :P

Some animations have been replaced with faster ones (Ifrit>Fire), though Glain's skip event hack has also been implemented to skip past story events and animations alike.

5. Most previously unevadeable abilities (Holy Sword, Summons, Limit, etc.) can now miss,

but status affliction, stat changing abilties, etc., will usually miss less often than vanilla, except for invitation. Notable exceptions include Draw Out, Elemental, and the Ultima ability.

(http://i.imgur.com/erkjBw8.jpg)

6. Many spells have massively reduced charge times, and are often cheaper.

This allows mages to be much more consistent until around the middle of chapter 4.

7. On the other hand, many previously instant no-MP abilities now have a charge time and/or an MP cost.

The MP cost is often small, but spamming many abilities, especially in the early game, won't be viable without some MP recovery.

8. On the other other hand, many abilities have slightly increased vertical tolerance. You'll still need flat land for Chakra and Elemental skills, but you can now get your precious Revive in at a 1 height difference, with a higher chance to hit — with a small MP and CT "cost", and less HP recovered than vanilla.

The powerful Haste still requires flat land, but Protect and Regen are now a little more forgiving.

(http://i.imgur.com/swVdpSQ.jpg)

9. Enemies have better equipment and abilities. Mages have a fixed faith value, usually high.

10. Enemies are more diverse, and will often have skillsets that differ from their jobs due to sprite limits.


11. There are sometimes simply more enemies in a given battle.

12.  Characters that join you, especially later in the game, have much more unlocked.

Cloud joins at your party level. Meliadoul has both Innate Defense UPs, Crush Punch, and even innate maintenance. Orlandu is nerfed up the Yin-Yang. Cloud, Reis, and Worker 8 are tweaked. I especially like Agrias, she feels strong but never overpowered. Rafa and Malak reworked, with consistent faith-based spells. Rafa's spells are a bit weaker than Malak's, but more of them can inflict status effects. Malak has innate two-swords and has more negative status afflictions.

In addition, many random battles are edited a bit to gain some variety. Yuguo Woods, Grog Hill, Bed Desert, Zirekile Falls, Barius Hill, and Doguola Pass are less customized then the others.

Many Deep Dungeon battles were tweaked to add some variety, challenge, and less Goblins.  :roll:

These ASM hacks were used:
Broken / Stolen items buyable in fur shop
JP Scroll Glitch Fix
Special characters can do propositions
Secret Hunt not needed for Fur shop
Start button skips events (careful using during battles, particularly during character movements.)
Smart encounters - click on an area to activate the random battle, clicking on towns and such skips random battles. No need for resetting / world map savestates!
(v1.10)Main Menu cursor defaults to Continue instead of New Game.
(v1.01) Katana Break Chance ASM - Set to 0% break rate, but they will still break, though seemingly less often.
(v1.10)Generic Skillset Fix ASM implemented to make Draw Out and Sword Spirit behave like normal skillsets.

I can't remember if historical leveling down is in or not, as I tried to minimize the ASMs to reduce possible bugs. Either way, if the player really wants to abuse leveling down, though it's less effective than vanilla, more power to them I guess. (Historical Leveling down not present from v1.01 and above)

Some shops stock additional equipment types. A few shops that you're locked into for a time are given all equipment types of the appropriate level. Many items are cheaper, and some special items give more than 5 gil when sold.

Brave/Faith altering are still in the game, as I thought them core to the Mediator's skillset and I just don't like being stuck with randomized brave and faith. Br/Fa raising is faster, but many enemies have strong set Br/Fa values.




For those who would like to see more detail, keep on reading. Otherwise, feel free to click that download at the bottom and try for yourself! Thank you for your interest, and I'd love to hear any and all feedback, especially some battle logs! No doubt your experience will vary from my testing, and I'm curious to see what you think.

Please note that only epsxe has been tested.

Note for those unfamiliar with FFT's stat mechanics: Due to the way FFT's stats grow, a "higher" growth is a smaller number. For example, an HP Growth of 5 for a job is extremely high and far into the territory reserved only for monster and bosses. On the other hand, an HP Growth of 16 is abysmal. Vanilla bards actually had an HP Growth of 20.  :roll:

Overview of Generic Jobs

In short, the range of growth rates between jobs has been reduced. Leveling in certain jobs can still be beneficial, but is by no means required.


Stat Growths for Generics and Special Characters: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VygESjT-V638wcLZ4MmqQQuA6mfpi2CDQtXTXxBUzEU/edit?usp=sharing

Class-by-class Changes Summary (not exhaustive)






Some jobs have gained innate abilities for balance and/or flavor:



Also, Priest takes Half damage from Holy, as do many jobs with Holy in their name. Most bosses are immune to or absorb dark to prevent %hp attack cheese. Late-game bosses especially are immune to most/all statuses.



Additional Equips


Removed Abilities (from Player)

Blade Grasp
Damage Split
Negotiate
Martial Arts
Hamedo



All Mythril equips except for the gun and knife give +1 MA. Many legendary items are nerfed, but still strong.

Note: Lists not exhaustive. Not all changes documented.

Weapons


Shields, Armors, Accessories


Job Level Requirements:

Raised to give the AI some more JP to work with.

Job Requirements:


The same or lower than vanilla's, especially mime and calc.

Poaches, Move-Find Item:
99% unchanged from vanilla. Some poaches are available earlier due to random battle changes.

Zodiac Signs:
Most enemies and allies now have random zodiacs.

Propositions:
Double 180%(v1.02) the base JP reward of vanilla, plus 5% increased extra day jp and +20 "bonus" jp. "Bonus" Gil for some job types are increased.

The price of many propositions is decreased, and most propositions are shorter in length as well.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Raijinili on August 15, 2017, 07:28:48 PM
Quote
Many classes have free abilities that cost 0 JP to learn, often for abilities that are either core to the jobs playstyle (Haste, Cure, etc.) or not very useful to begin with (Any Weather, Gilgame heart, etc.).

Did you also up the active ones to 100% Learn so that enemies will always have them? And put the useless R/S/M at 0% so enemies won't accidentally equip them.

I like the idea of 100% 0 JP for basic skills.

Quote
Cloud and especially Orlandu are nerfed up the Yin-Yang, along with Reis and Worker 8.

Nerfing Cloud, Reis, and Worker 8? What?

Quote
Rafa and Malak reworked, with consistent faith-based spells.

You made them slightly-stronger Black Mages??

If you want to rethink Rafalak, I have patches for:
- Un-Truth uses PA instead of MA. (Still magical.)
- Rando-spells always do max number of hits.
- Un-Truth Faith/Innocent bugfix.
- Truth uses Faith. (Still quadratic.) (Evil hack using nonlocal jump. I don't know why you'd want to use this anyway.)

Quote
Rafa's spells are a bit weaker than Malak's

Did you take Rafa's female +25% MA into account when judging which spells are stronger?

Quote
These ASM hacks were used:

Consider the "Sets the title screens default option from New Game to Continue" hack from Xif.

Quote
Summons can miss and hit allies, but are faster and some a bit cheaper.

How is Summon prevented from being a stronger, faster Black Magic? Its minor weakness was its MP cost.

Quote
Geomancer - Magic Defense UP, Any Ground

Why does it need MD Up? And what about Move on Lava?

Quote
Faster and more mobile to compensate for skillset's lack of versatility.
Quote
Lancer - Ignore Height, Concentrate

Both are strong abilities, and don't seem necessary. Concentrate only applies to their Attack, since Jump ignores evasion. Why were these abilities added? Lancer is a one-trick pony, but that one trick is very good, and "kill stuff" is central to the game.

Quote
All Mythril equips except for the gun give +1 MA.

Why not Gun? Talk Skill uses MA.

Quote
Blaze/Glacier guns swapped.

Blaze/Glacial Gun were not swapped in translation. (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11313.msg219667#msg219667)

(You may also want to base text edits on that patch.)
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 15, 2017, 10:29:25 PM
Did you also up the active ones to 100% Learn so that enemies will always have them? And put the useless R/S/M at 0% so enemies won't accidentally equip them.

I like the idea of 100% 0 JP for basic skills.



Of course. 0 JP abilities are gained 100% of the time for the AI, unless they also fit into nearly useless category, then it is 0%. The AI has a good chance of learning stronger abilities, and has more JP to spend on even cheaper skills.

Sure, the AI will still set equip crossbow and use a sword, but this kind of thing's chance is either calculated into a battle's difficulty or overwritten altogether with manually set R/S/M's.

Nerfing Cloud, Reis, and Worker 8? What?

Mostly minor nerfs for Reis, though her Holy Bracelet now is like a fast, cheap summon. Many vanilla late-game builds involve a strong Reis, not sure why small stat nerfs are a surprise.

For Cloud, well, decreased charge times helps him a lot. I suppose he's more sidegraded in ways. He has 4 move instead of 3, and can use any type of Sword for Limit skills. Climhazzard is very strong against bosses.

Worker 8 is more mobile and has more HP, but he does less damage and has less range on the 8-range skill.

You made them slightly-stronger Black Mages??

If you want to rethink Rafalak, I have patches for:
- Un-Truth uses PA instead of MA. (Still magical.)
- Rando-spells always do max number of hits.
- Un-Truth Faith/Innocent bugfix.
- Truth uses Faith. (Still quadratic.) (Evil hack using nonlocal jump. I don't know why you'd want to use this anyway.)


They're more than slightly stronger Black Mages. Rafa has 19% chance of status effects on most attacks, and has a dedicated AoE buff. Malak has Two Swords, a 100% single target slow, and a dedicated de-buff. His attacks are mostly stronger than Rafa's before taking into account gender-skewed MA. Sure, they need more testing, but I wouldn't discount them.

Did you take Rafa's female +25% MA into account when judging which spells are stronger?


Yes.

Consider the "Sets the title screens default option from New Game to Continue" hack from Xif.

Ok.

How is Summon prevented from being a stronger, faster Black Magic? Its minor weakness was its MP cost.

It's not stronger or faster than Black Magic. They have more area of effect, but are generally slower than Black Magic, along with some healing, status, and % damage. Black Magic has 12 elemental spells, which now all have different speeds, MP costs, and power so you can cast a spell of your liking, where you want it, at the power you need it, without hitting your allies as often. Sure, you can equip absorption equipment, but you're also giving up some to wear those equips. Summon spells are strong but bulky, and the Summoner class itself has less HP and MA than Wizard. Only the higher level summons are a bit cheaper than vanilla, by about 10%. This also helps the AI slightly, as they have no qualms in using all of their MP in a couple turns, even if it doesn't swing the battle enough their way to justify using it all.

The Summon vs. Wizard discussion is a very good one to have, though, as they both have the ability to strongly swing battles, particularly in the early and mid game. The AI has more recovery than vanilla, making battles last a bit longer and summoners can run out of MP a bit more often.

Why does it need MD Up? And what about Move on Lava?

For the one map, Bervenia Volcano? Sure I suppose.
As for MD, Geomancers go from being a decent, average class to kinda meh with other classes buffs. MD Up gives them a strong potential role that they can fill that no other class can do the same way without using a support slot: Magic Resistance. Their range is only 4 now, with Elemental attacks being just slightly stronger.

You can nitpick all you want, but so many things have changed in the patch that you can't really always use vanilla as a form of reference as to what's strong and what isn't. Things aren't always the same as they look on paper. Still, you are right to be concerned about 1/3 less magic damage received for a class, but Geomancers still don't feel particularly strong in Proper.


Both are strong abilities, and don't seem necessary. Concentrate only applies to their Attack, since Jump ignores evasion. Why were these abilities added? Lancer is a one-trick pony, but that one trick is very good, and "kill stuff" is central to the game.

Fair points. Jump is strong but it can be bulky to hit, leaving them often with only their attack to use. Jump range is decreased to 5 horizontally as well. That is why Concentrate is innate, to make Lancer simply more consistent. He doesn't have the defenses of the Knight or Geomancer, the speed of a Ninja, or the AoE and Crowd Control of mages. The AI will also abuse evasion builds, and it doesn't calculate jumps properly. The AI is able to sustain and recover from a lancer rush far better than in vanilla.

Even so, a one-trick Jump pony isn't always going to help you win 5v8s very well, or against bosses who will take more than a turn to die.

I'd try it before you knock it.  ;)


Why not Gun? Talk Skill uses MA.

We're talking about a 1% increase in hit chances if they had +1 MA. Sure, every bit helps, but it's not crucial one way or the other. They already have better hit chances on everything except invite.

Blaze/Glacial Gun were not swapped in translation. (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11313.msg219667#msg219667)

(You may also want to base text edits on that patch.)

Fair enough, but it still makes more sense to me. Even if it is false that they were swapped in translation, many have been led to believe that for a reason. "Glacier" does not conjure an image of fire in English speaker's minds. They think ice.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Raijinili on August 16, 2017, 12:55:26 AM
Quote
Sure, the AI will still set equip crossbow and use a sword, but this kind of thing's chance is either calculated into a battle's difficulty or overwritten altogether with manually set R/S/M's.

Speaking of which, you can add Equip X skills as innates to prevent them from being equipped by random generation. Equip Sword and Equip Shield on Geomancer, for example. But don't actually do that for Geomancer, because other innates want those slots and there aren't many enemy Geomancers.

Quote
Many vanilla late-game builds involve a strong Reis, not sure why small stat nerfs are a surprise.

Only because her stat growths are a little more optimal than generics. Neither her skillset nor her job are useful enough to make it into her good builds, and that's an issue.

Quote
Black Magic has 12 elemental spells, which now all have different speeds, MP costs, and power so you can cast a spell of your liking, where you want it, at the power you need it, without hitting your allies as often.

The range of elemental spells you actually want to use are limited at any given time. You don't need to use high-end spells in the early game, and you can't use high-end spells in the late game due to charge time unless Short Charge is a staple.

Quote
We're talking about a 1% increase in hit chances if they had +1 MA. Sure, every bit helps, but it's not crucial one way or the other. They already have better hit chances on everything except invite.

I'm actually asking why Gun is the exception.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 16, 2017, 02:31:06 AM
Speaking of which, you can add Equip X skills as innates to prevent them from being equipped by random generation. Equip Sword and Equip Shield on Geomancer, for example. But don't actually do that for Geomancer, because other innates want those slots and there aren't many enemy Geomancers.


Good to know, thanks!

Only because her stat growths are a little more optimal than generics. Neither her skillset nor her job are useful enough to make it into her good builds, and that's an issue.

True enough. I still found with equip armor her tankiness very nice in Proper.

The range of elemental spells you actually want to use are limited at any given time. You don't need to use high-end spells in the early game, and you can't use high-end spells in the late game due to charge time unless Short Charge is a staple.


Fair enough.

I'm actually asking why Gun is the exception.

Ehhh I guess I don't have a really good reason. It's not like it would make the Mythril Gun overpowered or anything.

Also through an oversight, Mythril Knife is missing the +1 MA, though it still gets the +1 Speed of Knives. Mythril Knife is so early in the game though compared to other Mythrils I might leave it that way, since magic is already really strong early game.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Andre Pratama on August 16, 2017, 04:27:23 PM
This amazing makes me back playing fft. His difficulty in my opinion is balanced unlike v 1.3.0.8 which is very difficult but there is a problem in the event zeklaus desert a knight wrong look at hokuten knight
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 16, 2017, 05:17:20 PM
This amazing makes me back playing fft. His difficulty in my opinion is balanced unlike v 1.3.0.8 which is very difficult but there is a problem in the event zeklaus desert a knight wrong look at hokuten knight

Ha, this funny encounter is actually unchanged from vanilla. You're referring to the battle where you have a single knight as a guest fighting a Minitaurus, correct?

I, too never noticed this encounter before playing Proper, or at least forgot about it if I did.

If you're referring to the Sand Ra-a-at Cellar story battle, I'm not sure how that is, as all palettes and team colors are unchanged for that battle.

Either way, I'm glad you're enjoying the patch so far!

Cheers,

johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Bonesy on August 17, 2017, 02:30:49 AM
idk calling your hack "the proper way to play fft" is pretty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man

why should i play your hack over the other vanilla hacks out there I haven't touched or played much of for one reason or another?
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Ansehelm on August 17, 2017, 04:08:39 AM
Looks like something to keep an eye on.  I'd like to take some time to test it, although right now I'm scrambling to get a demo finished for my hack. 

I wouldn't have phrased my comment quite as bonesy did, but he has a point - as modders, we put a lot of work into making a hack and adding fresh changes, but what ultimately makes a mod successful is the community, so we have to work not only to advertise our projects, but to get a pulse on players' interests so that we can give them what they want.  In this day and age, it's hard for a vanilla mod - excellent and balanced as it may be, to really stand out from the crowd of existing mods that have already stood the test of time.  Not to say it can't be done of course - I am in process of making a vanilla mod (at least plot-wise) and think it can be fairly successful - but your mod should stand out in some significant way that will make players clearly choose it over the other options (FFT +, CCP, 1.3 Content, etc).  Thing is, I'm not quite seeing the niche here.

My honest impression of this is that I like a lot of the features, but there's not much about it that seems really unique or compelling.  Most of this has been done before. To use a relationship analogy, it has the appearances of the "nice girl/guy" - it seems like a good mod with cool features that I should want to play, but may not ultimately have that spice that actually compels me to action or excites my emotions much.

Anyway, take this not as an attempt to undermine the success of your patch, but as a statement of the some of the things you will run up against and as an invitation for you to sell us your mod more effectively.  In any case, I have to appreciate the work put in here and hope others give this a shot.  I intend to when I have more free time.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Lionheart537 on August 17, 2017, 04:43:43 AM
Compromise answer: play all the mods. If you got the time at least.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 17, 2017, 05:07:31 AM
idk calling your hack "the proper way to play fft" is pretty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man

why should i play your hack over the other vanilla hacks out there I haven't touched or played much of for one reason or another?

Haha about "The Proper Way to play FFT", it's meant to be taken tongue-in-cheek but your reaction is valid of course.

Why should you play my patch? Well, if my notes and screenshots haven't sold you, then I'd like to leave the rest of "selling" my patch to those with good stories of playing it, to be honest.

With that said, I have played through FFT literally dozens of times, and the patch was designed to breathe new life into the game for a player that has been there, done that, seen it all. (Though of course with FFT even with hundreds (thousands?) of hours over the last 15 years there's new ways to experience it)

The patch was designed to be challenging, yes, but more so it was designed to simply provide variety. Variety in the enemies you face and their custom skillsets and variety in the amount of viable options a player has.

Looks like something to keep an eye on.  I'd like to take some time to test it, although right now I'm scrambling to get a demo finished for my hack. 

I wouldn't have phrased my comment quite as bonesy did, but he has a point - as modders, we put a lot of work into making a hack and adding fresh changes, but what ultimately makes a mod successful is the community, so we have to work not only to advertise our projects, but to get a pulse on players' interests so that we can give them what they want.  In this day and age, it's hard for a vanilla mod - excellent and balanced as it may be, to really stand out from the crowd of existing mods that have already stood the test of time.  Not to say it can't be done of course - I am in process of making a vanilla mod (at least plot-wise) and think it can be fairly successful - but your mod should stand out in some significant way that will make players clearly choose it over the other options (FFT +, CCP, 1.3 Content, etc).  Thing is, I'm not quite seeing the niche here.

My honest impression of this is that I like a lot of the features, but there's not much about it that seems really unique or compelling.  Most of this has been done before. To use a relationship analogy, it has the appearances of the "nice girl/guy" - it seems like a good mod with cool features that I should want to play, but may not ultimately have that spice that actually compels me to action or excites my emotions much.

Anyway, take this not as an attempt to undermine the success of your patch, but as a statement of the some of the things you will run up against and as an invitation for you to sell us your mod more effectively.  In any case, I have to appreciate the work put in here and hope others give this a shot.  I intend to when I have more free time.

Thanks for your lengthy response. Your reaction is well justified — a game of FFT can be a large time commitment, though with the story skipping asm and its low-jp requirements you should be able to jump right in. I would refer to my bonesy response higher in this same post, as much of it applies to your concern as well.

And, of course, sitting back and letting others try it out first is a perfectly valid response. How you spend your time is valuable and up to you. <3

Cheers,

- johnmyster

Compromise answer: play all the mods. If you got the time at least.

Haha fair enough. :P
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Bonesy on August 17, 2017, 08:06:36 AM
I will give you this much: at least it isn't 1.3 or FFT+ and thusly I'll probably give it a shot at some point eventually.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 17, 2017, 03:50:15 PM
I will give you this much: at least it isn't 1.3 or FFT+ and thusly I'll probably give it a shot at some point eventually.

It secretly is both 1.3 and FFT+. O.o o.O
*insert squirrel dun dun dunnn meme*

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/75672737

^ Topic on Gamefaqs. Philsov is doing a play-by-play as well.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: philsov on August 17, 2017, 06:01:19 PM
I will give you this much: at least it isn't 1.3 or FFT+ and thusly I'll probably give it a shot at some point eventually.

Are my initial impressions so far, yeah.  It's novel and refreshing.  I don't recall FFT+ enough to know where it sits on the spectrum between vanilla and 1.3, but Proper is in a sweet spot between the two.  Upgrade in every capacity over Vanilla so far, and doesn't require the precision or overpowering brute force 1.3 calls for.  With Br/Fa modding and speed abuse still being possible, some restraint may be necessary but if that's inline with the design philosophy so be it. 

And it's not absurd like LFT (imo!  I tried it but couldn't muster.  Its design philosophy was to make an improved game but still be SCC viable which... I don't think was executed well)

~

Also -- hi all <3.  Long time no see.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Elric on August 17, 2017, 10:05:59 PM
Are my initial impressions so far, yeah.  It's novel and refreshing.  I don't recall FFT+ enough to know where it sits on the spectrum between vanilla and 1.3, but Proper is in a sweet spot between the two.  Upgrade in every capacity over Vanilla so far, and doesn't require the precision or overpowering brute force 1.3 calls for.  With Br/Fa modding and speed abuse still being possible, some restraint may be necessary but if that's inline with the design philosophy so be it. 

And it's not absurd like LFT (imo!  I tried it but couldn't muster.  Its design philosophy was to make an improved game but still be SCC viable which... I don't think was executed well)

~

Also -- hi all <3.  Long time no see.

I thought you died when Eternal became Admin :o
(he's not anymore, btw ;))

I'd try this patch, but i don't think I'm proper enough and the tag line urks me a bit
(And I don't like vanilla patches)
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Xifanie on August 17, 2017, 10:34:43 PM
I'd just like to point out that both:
- That your mod is the "The Proper Way to play FFT"
- Your modifications follows the "spirit of vanilla"

Are both extremely arrogant claims that can only be applied to the raw, unmodified game. Your mod is a mod, it's not the original game; don't kid yourself. You'll never reach the audience that the original game had.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Andrew on August 17, 2017, 11:10:28 PM
Catchy title made me click on this thread!  Cool beans!  It looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this patch.  I hope that it gets a good amount of attention.  :)  Some changes that really stood-out for me:


1) Reduced JP costs.  If there's one thing I've always hated about starting a new game, it's having to grind for all of the skills that I want.  I'm the type of person that likes to have their "final" party assembled ASAP, so this is a big plus.

2) Monster rebalance.  Most of them stunk in vanilla, so it's nice to see that you could roll with a bunch of monsters (in an increased difficulty mod, at that) and stand a chance against what the game throws at you.  Good stuff.

3) Recruitables have more unlocked.  This ties into my first point.  No much more to say, honestly.

4) The patch maintains a lot of the vanilla flavour.  There's a lot of patch creators out there who change nearly every single aspect of the game (that they have access to), so it's refreshing to see a patch that emulates the best of what vanilla has to offer while staying true to the original game.

5) Start skips events.  When you've seen the game's cut scenes a billion times, this is a godsend.  Also, it's nice being able to choose whether or not you want to do a random battle.


Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 17, 2017, 11:50:59 PM
I thought you died when Eternal became Admin :o
(he's not anymore, btw ;))

I'd try this patch, but i don't think I'm proper enough and the tag line urks me a bit
(And I don't like vanilla patches)

Everyone is proper enough. :P

I'd just like to point out that both:
- That your mod is the "The Proper Way to play FFT"
- Your modifications follows the "spirit of vanilla"

Are both extremely arrogant claims that can only be applied to the raw, unmodified game. Your mod is a mod, it's not the original game; don't kid yourself. You'll never reach the audience that the original game had.

Haha oh my, chewed out by Xif.

I suppose tone is hard to convey over the internet and I may appear rather arrogant and trigger some people.

I'll take my responses piece by piece:

"The Proper Way to play FFT" is just that — a tagline. Of course there's 1,000,000,000 ways to play FFT, this is simply one of them. I'm sorry if this somehow triggers people into thinking I'm some arrogant dude who thinks his patch is god, or that I stepped on the toes of hackers far more talented than me.  :roll:

"Your modifications follows the 'spirit of vanilla'"

This line simply is meant to reflect on my design philosophy. I wasn't out to change the game into something its not. I relied heavily on the original vanilla's concepts and formulas as a wall to lean for balance and compare to when I wasn't sure what would and wouldn't be balanced. I attempted to take what was good about the original game and highlight those aspects — the strategy, and the tension possible before the player had figured out how to break the game's balance or starts attempting challenges such as SCC's.

Of course, I took plenty of liberties with enemies having all sorts of skillsets, redoing Rafalak, and putting in a few Zodiac bosses outside of their normal battles to spice things up a bit. Heck, I made some characters use generic sprites just to put an extra class in there to fight so one guy wasn't hogging 1/9 of the sprite space all the time.

Of course my mod is just a mod. It's my version of a product produced by Square that was only made possible using tools made by very talented and dedicated hackers, yourself included. It's meant to celebrate Final Fantasy Tactics, the game.

Reaching the audience that vanilla had is not even close to my goal. Even if five... no, even if one person besides me enjoys Proper for what it is, then the patch is a success in my eyes.

Catchy title made me click on this thread!  Cool beans!  It looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this patch.  I hope that it gets a good amount of attention.  :)  Some changes that really stood-out for me:


2) Monster rebalance.  Most of them stunk in vanilla, so it's nice to see that you could roll with a bunch of monsters (in an increased difficulty mod, at that) and stand a chance against what the game throws at you.  Good stuff.

3) Recruitables have more unlocked.  This ties into my first point.  No much more to say, honestly.

4) The patch maintains a lot of the vanilla flavour.  There's a lot of patch creators out there who change nearly every single aspect of the game (that they have access to), so it's refreshing to see a patch that emulates the best of what vanilla has to offer while staying true to the original game.

5) Start skips events.  When you've seen the game's cut scenes a billion times, this is a godsend.  Also, it's nice being able to choose whether or not you want to do a random battle.


Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your reply, and positive attitude so far.  :P

On Monsters
: Honestly, I don't know how viable rolling with a bunch of monsters is. Monsters are certainly much stronger, but they don't have the versatility of humans. I am thinking about trying a Ramza+Monster playthrough for myself, but haven't got around to it yet. So a word of caution to those willing to try such a thing: it's not tested, but it certainly is doable without excessive leveling, in theory.

Heck, the only way you're going to get more than 550 HP by level 75 besides with Reis (Equip Armor) is with monsters, whose growths continue to make them stronger every level while humans are left with the same equipment they had at level 45 and weaker growth rates than monsters.

On the spirit of the original game: Indeed, different doesn't always mean better. Still, paradoxically or hypocritically even, I injected the spirit of variety into the spirit of vanilla and shook (not stirred) it to its current form.  :P

On skipping events: Yes, this feature is amazing, and I only put it in at the very end of Proper's development because I didn't know about it. This was not in any shape or form made by me, I simply put the ASM (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11608.0) into my patch.

Cheers,

johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Angel on August 20, 2017, 05:44:46 PM
The title is a bit of a twitch, but I'm far more bothered by 16:9 screenshots of a 4:3 game. Well, and that you've made previously unavoidable attacks avoidable - I'm the queen of missing 90+% hits 12 consecutive times until game over, so those are my only crutch. :p

That said, you've put a lot of effort into your presentation, and I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate someone working off the PlayStation version. Thanks for posting your work here!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 21, 2017, 12:00:12 AM
The title is a bit of a twitch, but I'm far more bothered by 16:9 screenshots of a 4:3 game. Well, and that you've made previously unavoidable attacks avoidable - I'm the queen of missing 90+% hits 12 consecutive times until game over, so those are my only crutch. :p

That said, you've put a lot of effort into your presentation, and I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate someone working off the PlayStation version. Thanks for posting your work here!

Thanks for your interest and reply. Sorry about the resolution, wasn't even something I considered that would bother people. :p

Geomancy and Draw Out are still unevadeable. Thief and Lancer have innate concentrate, and most chances to hit are actually very much improved. Late game shields and mantles are also weaker. :p

Anyways, if you end up giving it a go I'd love to hear what you think. Have a great day!

-johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Angel on August 21, 2017, 05:24:50 AM
I definitely would like to, it's mostly a matter of free time at this point. If I'm not at work, I'm sleeping, pretty much. Hopefully should change in the near future so I can be intimately reminded of what free time is. :v
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Lionheart537 on August 21, 2017, 06:08:05 AM
Well, and that you've made previously unavoidable attacks avoidable - I'm the queen of missing 90+% hits 12 consecutive times until game over, so those are my only crutch. :p
Hehe you probably shouldn't play the XCOM series then Angel. They're infamous for missing high accuracy attacks.

But to make this post relevant
Thief and Lancer have innate concentrate, and most chances to hit are actually very much improved. Late game shields and mantles are also weaker. :p
-johnmyster
I support this. Stacking evasion can be a real problem. I'm not a big fan of handing out combat related innates to player characters; such as concentrate or the defense ups. In my hack I was hoping to give them less useful innates to free up space for better ones. For instance giving Thief innate move-find item. Knight innate defend. Archer innate poach. Etc, etc. Alternatively give them a starting status for battles like invisible on Ninjas, or Slow to balance a very powerful enemy unit (think of Regigigas' slow start from pokemon). Don't mean to patronize just my preference and a friendly suggestion. Besides that I didn't notice it listed, but perhaps include FFM's asm to prevent katanas breaking. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5658.msg118891#msg118891

I look forward to playing this when I have time either way! Cheers!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 21, 2017, 01:37:46 PM
I definitely would like to, it's mostly a matter of free time at this point. If I'm not at work, I'm sleeping, pretty much. Hopefully should change in the near future so I can be intimately reminded of what free time is. :v

Best of luck to you at that.

Hehe you probably shouldn't play the XCOM series then Angel. They're infamous for missing high accuracy attacks.

But to make this post relevantI support this. Stacking evasion can be a real problem. I'm not a big fan of handing out combat related innates to player characters; such as concentrate or the defense ups. In my hack I was hoping to give them less useful innates to free up space for better ones. For instance giving Thief innate move-find item. Knight innate defend. Archer innate poach. Etc, etc. Alternatively give them a starting status for battles like invisible on Ninjas, or Slow to balance a very powerful enemy unit (think of Regigigas' slow start from pokemon). Don't mean to patronize just my preference and a friendly suggestion. Besides that I didn't notice it listed, but perhaps include FFM's asm to prevent katanas breaking. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5658.msg118891#msg118891

I look forward to playing this when I have time either way! Cheers!

Good opinions and suggestions. I'll definitely look into the katana ASM hack as I'm not a huge fan of their breaking mechanic.

Thanks for your interest!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Nyzer on August 21, 2017, 03:48:16 PM
Quote
I'll definitely look into the katana ASM hack as I'm not a huge fan of their breaking mechanic.

IIRC, giving them a different formula will also prevent weapons from breaking, at least on WotL.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Bonesy on August 22, 2017, 02:13:53 AM
Played up until hitting the world map, probably gonna play more tonight.

Good Things: I like the lowered JP costs and that some of the 0-cost stuff is there.
Bad Things: I had to do the thieves twice because of the fucking bow dude.


If all the stages are as frustrating as the first real one idk if i'm going to have fun especially come Dorter.

EDIT: I did algus intro and it was managable.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 22, 2017, 06:29:35 AM
Played up until hitting the world map, probably gonna play more tonight.

Good Things: I like the lowered JP costs and that some of the 0-cost stuff is there.
Bad Things: I had to do the thieves twice because of the fucking bow dude.


If all the stages are as frustrating as the first real one idk if i'm going to have fun especially come Dorter.

EDIT: I did algus intro and it was managable.

Glad to see you've tried it out.

Yeah, Gariland might be toned down a little. The monsters and ranged attacks can give you a hard time, and the player hasn't even reached their formation screen yet. :P
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: Andre Pratama on August 22, 2017, 07:10:27 AM
Unfortunately that you say is true, i enjoy this patch you made a lot of surprises in chapter 4 especially in beowulf event .. and thanks have made this patch
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 22, 2017, 12:49:16 PM
Unfortunately that you say is true, i enjoy this patch you made a lot of surprises in chapter 4 especially in beowulf event .. and thanks have made this patch

What is unfortunate?

And wow, you just might be the furthest player in the game yet. :)

Glad to hear you've enjoyed the patch, as I enjoyed making it as well. <3
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
Post by: johnmyster on August 24, 2017, 05:22:28 AM
IIRC, giving them a different formula will also prevent weapons from breaking, at least on WotL.

This is confirmed by me not to work for the psx version. Katanas will still break, it just won't show the breaking text.

-------------------------------

Proper v1.01 released!

Changes:
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: Lionheart537 on August 24, 2017, 06:48:31 AM
 :more: nice response time mate! Staying active definitely draws attention. I'll give this a proper try after I get home from the gym.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on August 24, 2017, 11:31:13 AM
I'll give this a proper try


(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d3/d3b0d7ba8d384bd9fb18034e7a767307a5955770c267d242244469ba29d7a7bb.jpg)

Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: Lionheart537 on August 25, 2017, 05:31:33 AM
Just got past Dorter slums earlier today, didn't have too much trouble there. At first I wasn't super sure about the 0 jp idea but after seeing it in practice I heartily approve. I might steal use this for my hack. I also notice that jobs unlock very quickly. Which isn't bad really, especially since jp costs are low enough you still pick up a couple abilities first. Also your Gil rewards and costs are spot on so far. There's only a few nitpicks I have so far. There are a lot of wandering Calculators about, they aren't a big problem just kinda odd seeing them at lv3-ish. Black Gob's turn punch has enlarged aoe, it isn't that strong though but i found it odd. Knights are the best early class, hands-down. They are superbly tanky (which is the point i imagine). Monk's repeating fist usually 1-shots anything I've met so far (besides Knight). Maybe tone it down or edit bare-handed damage; they do seem to be physical glass cannons though so if it's intentional to wreck faces then pump up it's mp cost? Besides that i'd encourage increasing status' Ct so they last longer and/or aren't canceled by dying. That would make managing friend and foe status more worthwhile. Especially glad for 0 jp with Lancer lol. Liking it so far but Monks scare me

EDIT: Oh also the changes to Undead monsters. I personally like the reverse healing and constant reraise and there's hacks to limit the phoenix down abuse on them. But you do you, it still works as you have it.

EDIT: Just finished ch.1 I have to say somehow Charge seems better than vanilla, which would be good in my book. That Algus fight took me awhile to work through, nice work. Mostly those mages and the enemies' next-tier equipment. 5 seems a good limit to Jump's range. Really enjoying it man.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on August 25, 2017, 02:41:12 PM
Just got past Dorter slums earlier today, didn't have too much trouble there. At first I wasn't super sure about the 0 jp idea but after seeing it in practice I heartily approve. I might steal use this for my hack. I also notice that jobs unlock very quickly. Which isn't bad really, especially since jp costs are low enough you still pick up a couple abilities first. Also your Gil rewards and costs are spot on so far. There's only a few nitpicks I have so far. There are a lot of wandering Calculators about, they aren't a big problem just kinda odd seeing them at lv3-ish. Black Gob's turn punch has enlarged aoe, it isn't that strong though but i found it odd. Knights are the best early class, hands-down. They are superbly tanky (which is the point i imagine). Monk's repeating fist usually 1-shots anything I've met so far (besides Knight). Maybe tone it down or edit bare-handed damage; they do seem to be physical glass cannons though so if it's intentional to wreck faces then pump up it's mp cost? Besides that i'd encourage increasing status' Ct so they last longer and/or aren't canceled by dying. That would make managing friend and foe status more worthwhile. Especially glad for 0 jp with Lancer lol. Liking it so far but Monks scare me

EDIT: Oh also the changes to Undead monsters. I personally like the reverse healing and constant reraise and there's hacks to limit the phoenix down abuse on them. But you do you, it still works as you have it.

EDIT: Just finished ch.1 I have to say somehow Charge seems better than vanilla, which would be good in my book. That Algus fight took me awhile to work through, nice work. Mostly those mages and the enemies' next-tier equipment. 5 seems a good limit to Jump's range. Really enjoying it man.

Glad you like! Feel free to borrow some ideas like the 0 jp you mentioned. :P

There's maybe a couple more battles with calcs than vanilla, rng seems to favor (or disfavor) you. Lenalia Plateau in particular has a multi-calc battle in vanilla. Goblin Punch having range is for balance purposes, if you still don't find it strong then the range buff was definitely needed. It's kind of like Wave Fist.

Knights are strong throughout the game, though even in vanilla they were strong in Chapter 1. Repeating Fist only does 1/9 more damage than vanilla (randomized), though it doesn't miss of course which is big.

Once characters get some more speed, statuses may get more viable as more Active Turns will pass before they wear off. Their length is unchanged from vanilla, for good or bad, though changing some up isn't out of the question. As for undead, I don't care for the randomized auto-revival and inability to have them revived manually. Certainly goes against a Final Fantasy staple not having heals hurt them, but it still feels right.

Charge is indeed much strong than vanilla. Also, remember that after Miluda's second defeat shops unlock additional gear.

Thanks for your input, and I look forward to hearing more!

- johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to pla FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: Andre Pratama on August 25, 2017, 07:04:14 PM
No one unfortunate, sorry i am wrong :)
Lol There's an error in status ??? If the item was stolen or destroyed mainly helmet and armor
For example elmdor somehow becomes critical even though hp is still high
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: Hyraldelita on August 29, 2017, 02:12:10 PM
i will comment this cause i think i'm one of those people who got triggered by the mod name :D

If you don't want to trigger people than give the mods "proper" names ^^

I don't call a patch "best patch ever and your sucks" and than i say "that's not what i meant is just a title" XD

Anyway.. as elric said, i also don't like vanilla mod... that's is the real reason why i will not try the mod.

But i do have something positive to say about it, you sure put a lot of effort , even if you didn't have to change sprites, events etc.. i tried and i failed, so i will give you credit for that :)
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: Lionheart537 on August 30, 2017, 12:31:29 AM
Made good progress into Ch.2, just got Agrias. So update on my thoughts. I notice it's more of a damage race, like in the vanilla. One question I have is are enemies preset with level and equipment or did you set them to scale with the party? I ask because for awhile now every enemy has been 5-7 levels higher than mine. At the execution grounds the enemy average is 21 and my party's is 16 (excluding Agrias who comes in as 22). Static enemy levels encourage grinding to make them easier, but with very low jp costs grinding seems less necessary or appealing. Wondering if I should grind to catch up or if that will only raise difficulty as the ai scale with and get better gear.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on August 30, 2017, 06:05:11 PM
No one unfortunate, sorry i am wrong :)
Lol There's an error in status ??? If the item was stolen or destroyed mainly helmet and armor
For example elmdor somehow becomes critical even though hp is still high

Not sure how to fix that if it is indeed a bug, but thanks for letting me know.

I don't call a patch "best patch ever and your sucks" and than i say "that's not what i meant is just a title" XD

But i do have something positive to say about it, you sure put a lot of effort , even if you didn't have to change sprites, events etc.. i tried and i failed, so i will give you credit for that :)

I never meant to criticize other patches — in fact, many small aspects of Proper are inspired by other patches, as I note in my main post. Tone is sometimes hard to convey over the internet. Anyways, enough about that...

Thanks for the bit of positivity as well. :)

Made good progress into Ch.2, just got Agrias. So update on my thoughts. I notice it's more of a damage race, like in the vanilla. One question I have is are enemies preset with level and equipment or did you set them to scale with the party? I ask because for awhile now every enemy has been 5-7 levels higher than mine. At the execution grounds the enemy average is 21 and my party's is 16 (excluding Agrias who comes in as 22). Static enemy levels encourage grinding to make them easier, but with very low jp costs grinding seems less necessary or appealing. Wondering if I should grind to catch up or if that will only raise difficulty as the ai scale with and get better gear.

For story battles, the vast majority of AI are at a fixed level. Exceptions may include those that also scaled with the party in vanilla — monsters and quasi-undead class variations. In addition, maybe one or two extra enemies throughout all of the story battles are set to scale with the party.

I'll also quote part of my main post,

For Golgorand, I would at least level to 16-18 for the first speed point if you're having trouble. In general, "catching up" to the enemy's level isn't really needed to beat most of the game, though it can help. In Chapter 3 your opponents' levels, equipment, and ability combos really start to ramp up, but by that time you should have a strong team composition that is able to adapt to different situations.

Even if you're 5+ levels behind the AI in Chapter 3, once you've discovered some strong setups the game's difficulty curve shouldn't ramp up too fast, and may even get easier at times. The sweet spot that Proper aims for is 3-4 tries for a battle, leaning towards less attempts needed to not overly frustrate the player. Of course, experiences will vary widely depending on your strategy and tactics.

You'll get more experience against foes who are a higher level than you as well. Due to the linear growth of stats and the importance of equipment, individual level-ups start to matter less as the game goes on — especially for humans.


May the RNG be with you,

- johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: wuwuwu on August 31, 2017, 12:01:28 AM
  FFT Proper v1.01 has Speed Save and non-charge and Accumulate! They are Too strong!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: Lionheart537 on August 31, 2017, 12:20:56 AM
Well speed save costs a ton of jp to learn. Accumulate has a mp cost and charge time now. And I noticed half charge but most spells cast faster now so it isn't as strong anymore. But I guess if John wanted he could tack on the pa/ma/sp min/max hack to limit their abuse. Not that I find myself able to abuse them or Yell with the charge time and mp costs.

EDIT: unless by noncharge you are referring to Calculators math skills. To which I can say I'm pretty sure less spells can be cast via mathematics, only weaker ones. I will say that enemy mages keep nuking me with Fire 4 and reflect doesn't stop it but *shrugs* what can you do. Not a big issue imo
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: wuwuwu on August 31, 2017, 03:31:22 AM
  FFT Proper v1.01:Spin Fist can't miss and Lancer Innate Ignore Height and Concentrate are Too strong! Axes and Flails should no longer random damage!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on August 31, 2017, 07:16:51 AM
  FFT Proper v1.01 has Speed Save and non-charge and Accumulate! They are Too strong!

Lionheart's reply pretty much hits the mark.
A few enemies have non-charge in very late Chapter 4, but the battles are balanced in other ways to be perfectly beatable.

  FFT Proper v1.01:Spin Fist can't miss and Lancer Innate Ignore Height and Concentrate are Too strong! Axes and Flails should no longer random damage!
Spin Fist still isn't really the strongest ability...
Lancers are ok, there are ways to deal with them... or just use your own if you really feel they're that powerful.
Axes and Flails, eh... yeah, perhaps they should do consistent damage but at least they offer something different than the other thousand weapon types.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: wuwuwu on August 31, 2017, 09:14:25 AM
  FFT Proper v1.01 should delete Summoner‘s Golem。
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: Lionheart537 on August 31, 2017, 09:35:14 AM
  FFT Proper v1.01 should delete Summoner‘s Golem。
That's actually a fair idea. Not sure if you're aware John, but  Golem breaks the ai and gives them 7 extra chromosomes. This post explains and provides a halfway solution to the problem if you're interested. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10381.msg220734#msg220734
Or leave it as is or give it only to the Ai. As always i only present friendly suggestions and opinions  :D

EDIT: Also Wuwuwu you should seriously provide reasoning and constructive comments over complaints
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.01 released 8/23/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on August 31, 2017, 09:44:32 AM
Proper v1.02 Released!

Changes:
Female Knight in Zaland Fort City is now male to avoid sprite limit bugs, and is now properly set to immortal due to "cheated" gun equipped.

All story battle enemies with primary skillsets that differ from what one would normally expect are now a different palette from their allies. Ex: Monk with primary skillset of Talk Skill is a different palette than the "normal" monk he's teamed up with. Hopefully this will reduce any confusion and frustration when facing such enemies.

Proposition base rewards for JP toned down slightly. Instead of +100% (double) that of vanilla, they are +80%.

Text Changes:
Move in Water, Gil Taking, Self Destruct, and Holy descriptions fixed.
Face Up renamed to Faith Up. Equip Knife renamed to Equip Katana.
Frog and Stop status descriptions fixed.

------------------------------------

Main Post updated with Poaching/Move-Find Item, Proposition, and Zodiac changes in Proper that were previously undocumented.

------------------------------------

  FFT Proper v1.01 should delete Summoner‘s Golem。

That's actually a fair idea. Not sure if you're aware John, but  Golem breaks the ai and gives them 7 extra chromosomes. This post explains and provides a halfway solution to the problem if you're interested. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10381.msg220734#msg220734
Or leave it as is or give it only to the Ai. As always i only present friendly suggestions and opinions  :D

EDIT: Also Wuwuwu you should seriously provide reasoning and constructive comments over complaints

I'll look into fixing Golem for the next version. The AI can actually *miss* Golem as well. Such a troublesome ability. :P
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Bonesy on September 06, 2017, 02:19:55 AM
My only real complaint at this point is I wanted to grind before going to Sweegy and can't because the only random encounters I find are ridiculous.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on September 06, 2017, 04:42:45 AM
My only real complaint at this point is I wanted to grind before going to Sweegy and can't because the only random encounters I find are ridiculous.

Try using a wizard or two. Especially if you have 60+ faith females. Ice still wrecks goblins, and black magic will pick off other troublesome enemies as well. If you don't have any wizards unlocked, just bring a couple chemists to Sweegy.

A good early-game composition is:

Knight
Squire or Archer or Knight
Wizard
Wizard or Chemist
Chemist or Priest.

If you don't have any wizards or priests,

Knight
Knight
Archer
Chemist
Chemist

is good too.

If you have nothing unlocked, try three male squires and two chemists.

Either way, spamming potions should help you outlast the enemy in most random encounters early on. Put item secondary on at least 2-3 party members and remember that knights have innate defense up. Try to find/make a female high-faith Priest that has good compatibility with your party for some AoE heals and buffs. Cure is very fast and only costs 4 MP in Proper.

Best of luck,

- johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Andre Pratama on September 06, 2017, 08:01:41 PM
somewhat bored with sprite ramza maybe for some people agree with my question
if you do not mind i want to sprite ramza in replace with the others
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Elric on September 06, 2017, 08:18:41 PM
somewhat bored with sprite ramza maybe for some people agree with my question
if you do not mind i want to sprite ramza in replace with the others

You can't just change the Ramza sprite in a non story mod. Most EVTCHR rely on the sprite and it will look wonky as hell in most cutscenes
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Xifanie on September 06, 2017, 09:15:01 PM
You can't just change the Ramza sprite in a non story mod. Most EVTCHR rely on the sprite and it will look wonky as hell in most cutscenes
Don't know what you're talking about, I'm looking at this page and only see ~230 Ramza frames in there:
http://ffhacktics.com/wiki/Event_Instruction_58#EVTCHR_Slot_:_Byte_.28hex.29

This is super easy for someone extremely dedicated, with artistic talent and lots of time to spare!
Title: A really good mod for casual players that want an improvement of Vanilla
Post by: Ivory_Knight on September 07, 2017, 12:49:34 PM
First of all. Hi.
I am new to the forums but i have known about the forum and the FFT Hacking community for some time when i was younger.

I wanted to say that i find your mod really well done and i have enjoyed playing it. Thank you so much for your work on it.

I am already at the start of chapter 3 and i wanted to give some comments about my experience so far:

1) I believe that both random encounters and storyline encounters are from the most part well done and provide a better challenge and expierence compared to vanilla.

2) I really like the fact that storyline battles have static leveled enemies instead of the usual modding approach of making it variable. This allow the player to choose the difficulty of the game in a more dynamic way as you can choose how much you want to grind (if at all).

3) As pointed out in gamefaqs, there are some sprite glitches in the story battles. This is just a minor problem but it kinds of take you out of the experience.

4) It looks like the fur shop ASM consider the broken and stolen enemy items also. So i think it would be a good idea to remove it.

Overall, the issues or glitches in the game don´t hurt much the expierience and the improvements made by the mod. Again, thank you so much for your work on it.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Bonesy on September 07, 2017, 02:22:17 PM
I think my problem is I'm so used to being able to roll whatever (usually 3-4 attack chars and 1-2 magic/utility chars) that I don't think to shake it up lol. I'll probably fiddle around with party composition next time I play.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Elric on September 07, 2017, 03:47:51 PM
Don't know what you're talking about, I'm looking at this page and only see ~230 Ramza frames in there:
http://ffhacktics.com/wiki/Event_Instruction_58#EVTCHR_Slot_:_Byte_.28hex.29

This is super easy for someone extremely dedicated, with artistic talent and lots of time to spare!

xD
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on September 07, 2017, 04:14:50 PM
somewhat bored with sprite ramza maybe for some people agree with my question
if you do not mind i want to sprite ramza in replace with the others

Beyond the scope of this mod. Sure, I attempted to use Shishi sprite editor but wasn't a fan of the time needed or the learning curve.

First of all. Hi.
I am new to the forums but i have known about the forum and the FFT Hacking community for some time when i was younger.

I wanted to say that i find your mod really well done and i have enjoyed playing it. Thank you so much for your work on it.

I am already at the start of chapter 3 and i wanted to give some comments about my experience so far:

1) I believe that both random encounters and storyline encounters are from the most part well done and provide a better challenge and expierence compared to vanilla.

2) I really like the fact that storyline battles have static leveled enemies instead of the usual modding approach of making it variable. This allow the player to choose the difficulty of the game in a more dynamic way as you can choose how much you want to grind (if at all).

3) As pointed out in gamefaqs, there are some sprite glitches in the story battles. This is just a minor problem but it kinds of take you out of the experience.

4) It looks like the fur shop ASM consider the broken and stolen enemy items also. So i think it would be a good idea to remove it.

Overall, the issues or glitches in the game don´t hurt much the expierience and the improvements made by the mod. Again, thank you so much for your work on it.

Thanks! Yes, static levels and the player being able to choose their difficulty is very much core to the experience of Proper.

Ah, so that's what someone meant when they said the ASM was buggy. I'll consider removing it in the next patch.

Thanks again for your support,

- johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Andre Pratama on September 08, 2017, 05:05:46 PM
yes that's true elric


whether the ramza job name can be replaced eg a heretic with additional ability, raise or maybe with another, thanks jhonemyster has responded to my question.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: NYR on September 14, 2017, 01:31:35 AM
This patch looks amazing. I want to give it a try so bad! It has been a while since I have played FFT (either vanilla or a mod). Only problem is I am having a heck of a time getting this patch to work on my MacBook.

I remember when I was playing 1.3 that some of the ROMs wouldn't work with the patch. I must have tried 4-5 different ROMs and I still can't get it to run.

I am using the multi patcher tool, I have tried both PCSXR and Open Emu and every time I try to load it on PCSXR it says "The operation couldn’t be completed. Could not check CD-ROM! "

Problem is, I am telling it to run the ISO, not the CD drive. I kept thinking it was a ROM issue but I have tried a few different versions.

Any help would be greatly appreciated because I really, really want to play Proper.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on September 15, 2017, 03:48:45 PM
yes that's true elric


whether the ramza job name can be replaced eg a heretic with additional ability, raise or maybe with another, thanks jhonemyster has responded to my question.

Those changes can be made in about two minutes. FFTPatcher > Skillsets > Add raise to Ramza's three jobs. (Ch. 1, Ch. 2-3, and Ch. 4 are different jobs).

This patch looks amazing. I want to give it a try so bad! It has been a while since I have played FFT (either vanilla or a mod). Only problem is I am having a heck of a time getting this patch to work on my MacBook.

I remember when I was playing 1.3 that some of the ROMs wouldn't work with the patch. I must have tried 4-5 different ROMs and I still can't get it to run.

I am using the multi patcher tool, I have tried both PCSXR and Open Emu and every time I try to load it on PCSXR it says "The operation couldn’t be completed. Could not check CD-ROM! "

Problem is, I am telling it to run the ISO, not the CD drive. I kept thinking it was a ROM issue but I have tried a few different versions.

Any help would be greatly appreciated because I really, really want to play Proper.

Try this:
Rename/change the file extension from .bin to .ISO you should be able to click the .ISO file.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: NYR on September 15, 2017, 03:50:47 PM
Will give that a try. I finally bought parallels as well as a cheap copy of Windows 10 last night so maybe I'll just give it a try on the Windows side if I can't get it to work.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on September 19, 2017, 06:22:22 PM
Will give that a try. I finally bought parallels as well as a cheap copy of Windows 10 last night so maybe I'll just give it a try on the Windows side if I can't get it to work.

Any luck?
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: NYR on September 23, 2017, 01:24:24 AM
Yes!! I am loving this so far!

I have been stuck at Izlude for quite a while. Man, he is one tough SOB. One thing I noticed, the amount of HP for the Crystal Helmet is off.

Another update:

Finally beat Izlude but I am giving up at Grog hill. Multiple characters with blade grasp + Hamedo. Chemists with 2 mythril guns? That isn't a fun kind of challenge. It is an "not sure if I want to play this anymore time of challenge". Some of these battles are way more difficult than FFT 1.3.

Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: Bonesy on September 23, 2017, 09:52:51 PM
to everyone: Log which battles you're having trouble with and why, I think Proper is more likely to get updated with fixes/rebalances etc than crappy ol fft 1.3 at this point
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.02 released 8/31/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on September 25, 2017, 11:37:23 AM
Yes!! I am loving this so far!

I have been stuck at Izlude for quite a while. Man, he is one tough SOB. One thing I noticed, the amount of HP for the Crystal Helmet is off.

Another update:

Finally beat Izlude but I am giving up at Grog hill. Multiple characters with blade grasp + Hamedo. Chemists with 2 mythril guns? That isn't a fun kind of challenge. It is an "not sure if I want to play this anymore time of challenge". Some of these battles are way more difficult than FFT 1.3.



I'm sorry to hear that Grog Hill is unduly frustrating for you. What kind of party are you using?

Here's some tips that you may try:


I hope that helped a bit.

Thanks for noticing the Crystal Helmet typo and your continued interest in Proper.

EDIT: You may also want to check out the new update. ;)

to everyone: Log which battles you're having trouble with and why, I think Proper is more likely to get updated with fixes/rebalances etc than crappy ol fft 1.3 at this point

Yes. :)
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on September 25, 2017, 01:00:15 PM
9/25/2017: Proper v1.03 released!
Patch a fresh ISO as always.

FFHacktics (v1.03) (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11789.0;attach=16704)
DataFileHost.com (v1.03) (http://www.datafilehost.com/d/5ec0f1ed)

Changes:
Golem reworked. It now casts Protect on all allies.

Grog Hill made slightly easier:
The Squire with a shield now wears a Holy Miter and Elf Mantle.
The Squire that had two weapons equipped now has a Diamond Shield.
The Ninja now has Move +2 instead of Move +3, and a worse weapon in his left hand.

All Grog Hill enemies with "impossible" setups are now properly flagged as immortal.

Crystal Helmet description fixed.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: NYR on September 27, 2017, 06:11:54 PM
Finally beat Grog Hill! Been busy as hell this week at work. I intend on moving further tonight.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on September 28, 2017, 03:00:57 PM
Finally beat Grog Hill! Been busy as hell this week at work. I intend on moving further tonight.

Congrats!

What was your strategy and party composition?

Were you using the new version?

Did my tips help?
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Ivory_Knight on September 30, 2017, 03:43:10 PM
Hi again.
I am already at Chapter 4 and i wanted to report a minor mistake.
The description of Assassin Dagger is wrong (or maybe right and the actual stats are wrong).
The description says it has 7 WP. But the actual stat is 9 WP.

I attached screenshots, just in case.

Thank you again for the patch, and have a nice day.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: NYR on October 01, 2017, 01:44:54 AM
I don't recall what party I used but I got lucky :P

I really enjoyed the first fight at Riovanes. Took a few tries but I finally got through.

Still stuck at Velius. Any tips? No matter what I do he just keeps casting Lich to heal himself for 783.   :shock:
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 01, 2017, 03:56:27 PM
Hi again.
I am already at Chapter 4 and i wanted to report a minor mistake.
The description of Assassin Dagger is wrong (or maybe right and the actual stats are wrong).
The description says it has 7 WP. But the actual stat is 9 WP.

I attached screenshots, just in case.

Thank you again for the patch, and have a nice day.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it!

I don't recall what party I used but I got lucky :P

I really enjoyed the first fight at Riovanes. Took a few tries but I finally got through.

Still stuck at Velius. Any tips? No matter what I do he just keeps casting Lich to heal himself for 783.   :shock:

Some tips:

Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: NYR on October 01, 2017, 05:50:59 PM
Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it!

Some tips:


Finally got past him. At Bethela Garrison.

Here are my thoughts so far...


Again, I think it is a really good mod but I feel like you went from kind of a rebalance and changing mod in the first half the game to an insanely derpy mod in the second half.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 02, 2017, 01:03:34 AM
Finally got past him. At Bethela Garrison.

Here are my thoughts so far...


Again, I think it is a really good mod but I feel like you went from kind of a rebalance and changing mod in the first half the game to an insanely derpy mod in the second half.

Yeah, the "Save __" missions were purposely made not too difficult because your guests can be fragile and stupid.

Chapter 4 is indeed where the difficulty ramps up the most, but by this point in the game you should have a strong party with almost any abilities that you want.

As long as your enemies aren't more than like fifteen or twenty levels above you, each battle is perfectly doable in Proper with the right strategies and some trial and error.

As always, thank you for your input and for playing and supporting Proper.

Best of luck,

- johnmyster
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: NYR on October 05, 2017, 07:07:53 PM
Yeah, the "Save __" missions were purposely made not too difficult because your guests can be fragile and stupid.

Chapter 4 is indeed where the difficulty ramps up the most, but by this point in the game you should have a strong party with almost any abilities that you want.

As long as your enemies aren't more than like fifteen or twenty levels above you, each battle is perfectly doable in Proper with the right strategies and some trial and error.

As always, thank you for your input and for playing and supporting Proper.

Best of luck,

- johnmyster

Thanks. I will be playing some more this weekend. Btw. That post was not supposed to say "insanely derpy" mod. It originally said something else... I am guessing someone changed that. I do not think your mod is "derpy" lol.

Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 07, 2017, 12:37:43 AM
Thanks. I will be playing some more this weekend. Btw. That post was not supposed to say "insanely derpy" mod. It originally said something else... I am guessing someone changed that. I do not think your mod is "derpy" lol.



Derp!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Nyzer on October 07, 2017, 01:06:19 AM
Quote
That post was not supposed to say "insanely derpy" mod. It originally said something else... I am guessing someone changed that.

It's an auto correction on the FFH forums.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 21, 2017, 05:32:27 PM
Anyone still playing Proper?

Post your thoughts here.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Bonesy on October 21, 2017, 06:17:32 PM
I've been meaning to get back to it whenever I update to 1.03.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: skiploom188 on October 22, 2017, 04:40:05 AM
Hey a new FFT mod! Gonna give this a try. Just now I've been itching for some Final Fantasy.

I noticed in the first post that this has only been tested on epsxe. Did anyone try this mod on pSX v.1.13? Because if no one did then I'll check if it will run smoothly without crashes and black screens.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Ivory_Knight on October 23, 2017, 12:18:35 PM
I just beated Bethla Garrison and i have some nitpicks with the patch right now:

1) The Rafa and Malak skill sets are uninspiring and boring to be honest. They can be useful (Rafa Sky Demon with Earth Clothes can OHKO some units while Malak can stop sandbagging with Heaven Bolt Back and the 100% slow is nice) but they feel too much like wizards and in some cases like suboptimal versions of them.

2) In chapter 4 there are some decisions to increase the difficulty in story battles that end up repeating themselves too much and make this fights tedious. In particular the repeated appearance of Teleport 2. In some battles i think it improved the battle (for example the Meliadoul fight with the teleport 2 archers) but in others it just made the battle take longer (Simon with teleport 2 started moving between the edges of the stage to heal himself while on critic and with the rest of his party dead). It ends up as overused and in some cases doesn't add up much to the fights.

3) I think the AI doesn't consider the new CT on Draw Out skills, as it ends up casting it in occasions where my units con move out of the AoE.

4) A really minor nitpick. But why does Orlandu's job includes MA Save. Has anyone ever made Orlandu an MA character?

Again. These are just some minor issues in an overall good mod.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: skiploom188 on October 27, 2017, 03:03:21 AM
Ok so I tried playing this patch on pSX. The mod is both fun and challenging. It's a nice patch for those like me who haven't played FFT in awhile. 

In Chapter 2, I found this in Lionel Castle...


The ghoul there has the glitchy sprite. It didn't bother the whole game though, unless you press start while it is teleporting. Then all the bad stuff will happen after you win the battle. The GUI texts will be broken, and your formation screen will have some bad surprises waiting for you. Did this happen to others?

I'm finishing chapter 3 now and will let you know if other stuff like this happen.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Bonesy on October 27, 2017, 04:04:01 AM
Did you try replicating this in ePSXe 2.0 or Mednafen/RetroArch?
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Xifanie on October 27, 2017, 04:31:56 AM
It just means there are too many sprites on the map. i.e. it's going to happen 100% of the time on all emulators + console until the mod creator fixes it.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 27, 2017, 12:50:34 PM
I just beated Bethla Garrison and i have some nitpicks with the patch right now:

1) The Rafa and Malak skill sets are uninspiring and boring to be honest. They can be useful (Rafa Sky Demon with Earth Clothes can OHKO some units while Malak can stop sandbagging with Heaven Bolt Back and the 100% slow is nice) but they feel too much like wizards and in some cases like suboptimal versions of them.

2) In chapter 4 there are some decisions to increase the difficulty in story battles that end up repeating themselves too much and make this fights tedious. In particular the repeated appearance of Teleport 2. In some battles i think it improved the battle (for example the Meliadoul fight with the teleport 2 archers) but in others it just made the battle take longer (Simon with teleport 2 started moving between the edges of the stage to heal himself while on critic and with the rest of his party dead). It ends up as overused and in some cases doesn't add up much to the fights.

3) I think the AI doesn't consider the new CT on Draw Out skills, as it ends up casting it in occasions where my units con move out of the AoE.

4) A really minor nitpick. But why does Orlandu's job includes MA Save. Has anyone ever made Orlandu an MA character?

Again. These are just some minor issues in an overall good mod.


1. Interesting observation. Should I consider buffing them, or just giving them more interesting abilities?

2. I'll consider taking a look at Teleport 2 abilities and Chapter 4 in general. Do you mean Zalmo 2?

3. This is true, and is a tradeoff to giving CT abilities to Draw Out. I wonder if making Draw Out behave like a Basic Skill set would get rid of this behavior (and let me give them MP costs).

4. Many late-game special characters have the high-tier RSM abilities in their base class to reduce the need to grind them up. MA Save may not be too useful for Orlandu, but it is hard to reach. Move+3 on the other hand should be pretty useful. :P

----------------------------------------------------------


The ghoul there has the glitchy sprite. It didn't bother the whole game though, unless you press start while it is teleporting. Then all the bad stuff will happen after you win the battle. The GUI texts will be broken, and your formation screen will have some bad surprises waiting for you. Did this happen to others?


As Xifanie said, it looks like this is another battle where I exceeded the sprite limit. Looks like ghosty will have to go. He's there originally because the battle was too hard during testing, and he was just one of multiple nerfs to the enemies. I think he was a ninja at first. :P

As for the start button while teleporting, the after-battle effects likely have to do with the sprite limit. HOWEVER, you really don't want to use the start button while a character is moving as they can fly off of the screen and make the battle unplayable. :/ Another tradeoff sadly for being able to skip cutscenes.

------------------------------------

Thanks for your thoughts, loves, and for helping make Proper a more enjoyable experience for all. <3
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Nyzer on October 27, 2017, 06:53:24 PM
Quote
This is true, and is a tradeoff to giving CT abilities to Draw Out. I wonder if making Draw Out behave like a Basic Skill set would get rid of this behavior (and let me give them MP costs).

There's a flag in the AI Behavior section of the Abilities tab: "Check CT/Target".
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 28, 2017, 12:27:11 PM
There's a flag in the AI Behavior section of the Abilities tab: "Check CT/Target".

Already checked for most Draw Out abilities. Looks like I overlooked a few that I added CT's to later, but I'm pretty dang sure I've seen them ignore Asura/Koutetsu/Kiki CTs, who all already had Check CT/Target checked.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 29, 2017, 01:34:36 AM
10/28/2017: Proper v1.10 released!
Patch a fresh FFT ISO.

Lots of changes here:

EDIT:
Another patch, v1.10b has been released. v1.10 unintentionally left out the Skip Events ASM. 1.10b has it back in.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.03 released 9/25/17!)
Post by: Ildon on October 29, 2017, 04:25:35 AM
Bug: Drawout animations have Katanas in weird position.

I'm guessing that the sprites for the katanas is also incorrect.  It happens if you use the draw out abilities in an action menu that is not set as "katana inventory"

You could always change the animations from "03 73 00" to something like "07 00 00" or "01 00 00" if you wanted. 

"07 00 00" is used for Holy Sword abilities, etc.

"01 00 00" is used for the Spellblade abilities

But at the end of the day I suggest setting the animations to something that YOU are happy with.  Also, I can't recall what the "Drawout" abilities look like exactly with various character animations.  It has been a while since I last messed around with them. 

Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on October 29, 2017, 06:21:40 AM
I'm guessing that the sprites for the katanas is also incorrect.  It happens if you use the draw out abilities in an action menu that is not set as "katana inventory"

You could always change the animations from "03 73 00" to something like "07 00 00" or "01 00 00" if you wanted. 

"07 00 00" is used for Holy Sword abilities, etc.

"01 00 00" is used for the Spellblade abilities

But at the end of the day I suggest setting the animations to something that YOU are happy with.  Also, I can't recall what the "Drawout" abilities look like exactly with various character animations.  It has been a while since I last messed around with them. 



Thanks!
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: Ildon on October 30, 2017, 12:57:57 AM
Thanks!

You're more than welcome.  I hope that it actually helps.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: johnmyster on November 11, 2017, 02:35:17 PM
For those who have played Proper, I have created a survey as another way to get feedback. Filling it out would really be appreciated!

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/HXHQVVV
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: lessen on April 06, 2018, 05:46:11 AM
Algus can and will get absolutely toasted before I can reach him, meaning if I say "we gotta save him" I just basically auto-lose.

Halp.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: lessen on April 06, 2018, 05:47:29 AM
Also Algus is a sack of shit who just used my only remaining Phoenix Down in a context where the person he rez'd immediately got blasted back into oblivion.

Also Algus is a sack of shit in general.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: lessen on April 06, 2018, 05:58:02 AM
Seriously though, 3x in a row, Algus has gotten toasted a solid turn before I could feasibly reach him.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: Elric on April 06, 2018, 07:35:39 AM
lessen, we have an edit button for a reason. Use it! There is no reason to triple post, especially in a period of 12 minutes...
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: lessen on April 06, 2018, 10:03:50 AM
<snip>

Anyone got any idea why Ramza turned into a series of vertical color bars at the start of the thief fortress battle? At a specific moment as the level was loading, and the title of the level was showing, the background graphics glitched out a bit (large black patch) and some color bars appeared very briefly on the right side of the screen. Then Ramza's sprite showed up as crazy rainbow bars, and his portrait is also messed up (it's showing a yellow black mage).

Should I just assume my ROM itself got corrupted somewhere along the way? The rest of the mod features seemed to be working fine for the most part. There was one moment during the very first mission where tooltips stopped showing up entirely, and as mentioned before, Algus can't NOT get killed, but aside from that...

Further testing indicates it's not about Ramza specifically, it seems more like the right-most character in my squad gets turned into color-bars. I guess I'll save my game and try re-preparing the ISO tomorrow to see if it turns out any better.

Image: https://i.imgur.com/XtheDuJ.jpg

Further further testing: I re-prepared the ROM and things are still the same. I found that if I play a random encounter, the problem doesn't happen (in the random encounter). I also found that if I play the Thief Fort map with a party of 3 instead of 4, the problem doesn't happen. It doesn't seem to matter which three, the problem just always happens with a party of four on that map for me. I guess I gotta face the challenge of beating the map with three people
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: Xifanie on April 06, 2018, 02:24:14 PM
lessen: This is perfectly normal behaviour. There's nothing wrong on your end: i.e. this is a bug with the mod itself.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: Elric on April 06, 2018, 03:10:44 PM
Yes, this is because the creator of the mod didnt actually follow the rules of mod creation for FFT, how proper of them.
Title: Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)
Post by: lessen on April 06, 2018, 07:34:21 PM
 :|

Darn, I liked the idea of the patch and (as a newbie to FFT) the execution seemed plausible.

Guess I'll tryyyyyyy........ LFT, next, then!