The VK patch! Come and help us!

[Austin]

I don't want to remove the brave/faith alteration abilities or mediator. Isn't there some way we could make it so the effects weren't permanent?

Blade grasp would still be too good even at 72%.

The evasion reduction sounds good, even though half is a bit much. I think it should still be able to get up to around 70-75%.

I'm fine with knight swords, but the chaos blade still needs to be reduced. If its being held with two hands at 40WP it's going to kill pretty much anything it hits.

For draw out I think it just needs to be weakened and the samurai's should be given more MA. Or is there a good formula we could put in instead, like one that requires both PA and MA. That way neither wizards or knightscould do a lot with DO but samurai's could (with a little more MA). Either way I don't like katanas being limited like that(probably because I don't like poaching ).

I liked the way the blue mage was in the sigma patch for the most part. If he hits to hard with a sword we could just reduce his PA some because I think a sword works well with them. As for the skillset I don't think we are going to want something like gather power, and dischord would hardly ever be useful, And in the sigma patch I thought giga flare, dark whisper, and blaster were too good, so I was thinking:
choco cure
choco esuna
choco meteor
mimic titan
thunder bracelet
wind soul
bad bracelet
goblin punch
self destruct
calm spirit
death sentence
drain touch
blow fire
ultima
and a couple of the other abilities you suggested (I don't remember what goo or magic spirit do)

Also we need to decide on some way to limit these like mp cost.

The swordskills suggestion sounds good to me, but crush punch needs to be given a different status effect, add dead is a bit too potent. Also crush punch needs to cost more since its the better skill. And nothing else should be given mp boosts since it makes giving them mp costs in the first place pointless.

Archers are fine as they are with innate concentrate, even if bowguns still suck they just need some more wp.

Agreed on guns, but I don't know what to do with them. The first two guns are fine as they are though.

Everything except ninja and thief just needs to have its range reduced to 3. Squire is one of the best classes in the game now and it doesn't need 4 movement.

As for Beowulf, I don't know what to do. Maybe mp cost and Ct on his skills. I don't really want to just throw them away. And I never use Reis so I wouldn't know about her.

I want the jobs as they were in the sigma patch, but I thought adding innate magdef up to priests, and innate secret hunt to thiefs would be good ideas.

For Zodiac monsters: Hashmalum needs some kind of innate ability in order to present a challenge maybe just counter, the ones counted as males need to be changed to monsters when we get into the ENTD files, and most of them should have their braves raised (except Altima) so they can make use of their abilities, especially if they have something like critical quick or meatbone slash.

[Xifanie]

I really like the katana idea. If minotaurs carries elixirs, why not a murasama?

The archer needs status inflicting abilities IMO. However that would probably require to create new skills considering only Mustadio's skillset have some.

Maybe even free crap abilities like:

Poison Strike: Weapon damage, Weapon Range, 25% Poison + 25% Sleep, 0MP, 2 Clockticks.

That would already make it WAY better than some stupid charges. Although they can be deadly if used properly when the battle starts.

10 Speed Unit vs 10 Speed Unit
Enemy moves forward: 20CT
Ally moves forward, Charge +7; BAM!
+10 & +20 are completely worthless though.  Err, I think Charge +7 will be able to launch before it's too late but I'm not sure.

If you want to fix beowulf, lower chance to hit. Charge Time would be ridiculous as no CT is there to compensate te fact that it can only hit 1 enemy.

[trickstardude7]

I feel that Reis would be a highly debateable character because Yes her Stat Growth Is crazy but the skillse in my opinion is mediokre since one of your precious unit spots have to be waste on a Dragon to make her worthwhile well its just my opinion >_<

But archers, I feel even if the Ct is lowered I still would never use them because you really want a skillset worthwhile and useful enough to be used as a second skillwithout being cheap.

Also again for Beowulf I thought it over and I believe there is NO reason to tone hime down because you recieve him so ate that mosly no status effects will work except DONT MOVE on bosses but perhaps you should make it harder for you to recieve Beowulf and Reis like make a special skill set for Sinogue that would make the battle harder.

[Austin]

Beowulf isn't tough because of what he does to bosses, it's what he does to enemies that counts. His petrifying move almost always worked for me whenever i'd use him.

[trickstardude7]

But at the tim you get him !BAM! your at the final boss but of course this is just my opinion

[Austin]

But you forgets teh deep dungeon...

[Xifanie]

I'll look again in order to have fixed Brave/Faith.

I may also suggest that as ramza is the main protagonist, we could transfer the mediator's skills to him.

Oh, for archers; another solution:
Give pretty much all bows & crossbows higher power, or one or more status effects

Like Ice Bow could be Ice elemental and have 25% to add Stop OR Slow.

Yoichi bow could have 25% Chance to cast fire 4.

Dunno, just ideas.

[Austin]

That sounds good for Ramza, it might be a few too many skills though. Also while I'm thinking about it that one DO move that works like earth slash needs to be reduced to 5 range like earth slash. I think the long bows are good as they are, but status effects on crossbows sounds like a good solution.

[VincentCraven]

...Blade grasp would still be too good even at 72%.

The evasion reduction sounds good, even though half is a bit much. I think it should still be able to get up to around 70-75%....

The swordskills suggestion sounds good to me, but crush punch needs to be given a different status effect, add dead is a bit too potent. Also crush punch needs to cost more since its the better skill. And nothing else should be given mp boosts since it makes giving them mp costs in the first place pointless.

Well, Blade Grasp still needs to be changed so that it doesn't block arrows/bullets, but idk what to do with it.

Abandon+Feather Mantle+Crystal Shield = 80%; rare items are even higher. Or were you talking about magic evasion?

Are you suggesting that Gafgarion as an enemy should only be able to attack you once (or worse, none) with Night Sword? For MP cost to matter to Orlandu, we'll have to raise it real high....

[trickstardude7]

I'll look again in order to have fixed Brave/Faith.

I may also suggest that as ramza is the main protagonist, we could transfer the mediator's skills to him.

Oh, for archers; another solution:
Give pretty much all bows & crossbows higher power, or one or more status effects

Like Ice Bow could be Ice elemental and have 25% to add Stop OR Slow.

Yoichi bow could have 25% Chance to cast fire 4.

Dunno, just ideas.

Yeah that seems like that would be fit for him

Maybe for Archers bow one of them should give Charm like Cupids Bow  

[Austin]

Abandon+Feather Mantle+Crystal Shield = 80%; rare items are even higher. Or were you talking about magic evasion?

Are you suggesting that Gafgarion as an enemy should only be able to attack you once (or worse, none) with Night Sword? For MP cost to matter to Orlandu, we'll have to raise it real high....

Basically I just wanted to say don't get too crazy with reducing stuff(and I meant for phys. evade to be able to get to 70% or so with shields and mantles added up). As for night sword just put its mp cost at like 5-10 mp and give it to no one but Gafgarion. I think Orlandu can manage.

[VincentCraven]

Ah k. I'd also prefer to just remove Night Sword from Orlandu, but I recall lots of opposition to that suggestion.

And as for Charge, I think it should stay a power skillset. I'd rather see a completely new class, say 'Hunter,' have these nifty Poison shots and such. Alternatively, we could make most crossbows add status and most longbows cast magic. I like that solution best.

Ah yes, and where does berserker fit in to all of this. You were still leaning toward that class, right Karsten?

[Austin]

Alternatively, we could make most crossbows add status and most longbows cast magic. I like that solution best.

That sounds good to me too.

[Sen]

Does it apply also to the psp version?

because I have a suggestion for onion knight.

[Austin]

Nope, just psx.

[Zozma]

why not make two versions of some skills since certain monsters skills use a monster formla anyway other than the glitchy look that makes the skills really weak when used by humans... [ulmaguest looks glitchy when used by humans, but if you swap out bio2's gfx look for the one for ulmaguest it then looks like a spellcast instead of swinging out a glitchy knife. (thats just an example)]

by the way if anyone wants to replace some skills that use the sword swing animation, bite, beak, eye gouge and choco attack can be replaced with the skill right above "potion" which is actually "Attack" and the name attack is visible too (i dont know why its not listed in the patcher but oh well) all monsters iniial skill uses the same damage formula anyway, and now u can make the tree monsters use attack too.

[Xifanie]

Making different skills automatically prevents us from learning blue mage style.

Blue Mage is all about versatility. However I'd make skills 2 times stronger while giving monsters 2x less MA... I'm sure this would balance more things for the Blue Mage and Mind Break wouldn't be so useless on monsters anymore.

[Zozma]

thing about monster skills is they tend to look really glitchy if used by humans... however if you make the new skill you could probably swap it with the old one... the monster would use a different animation, however then both human and monster could use them without looking weird?

[karsten]

thing about monster skills is they tend to look really glitchy if used by humans... however if you make the new skill you could probably swap it with the old one... the monster would use a different animation, however then both human and monster could use them without looking weird?

the ones i mentioned are all fine, just a minor glitch with gather power.

for what concerns blue mage skills being weak on blue mage, i think that it is a great point. blue mage shouldn't be a powerhorse or good class; it should be a weak class in wich you change to learn skills that are more useful later on, on other classes as secondary. (at least IMHO).

i like really a lot the idea of status/elemental attack for the archers. i think we should look on it.

blade grasp at 72% is not that bad actually. even by dividing evasion on all items/2 you can reach more than 80%...

about ultima2 on blue mage, it can be nice, but you would get it only in the last battle or being able to learn it too? gather power too, can't target someone else... shall all the abilities be learnable only or buyable too? in this case all ultima might go to 1200 and gather power 1000?

[trickstardude7]

you should make ultima2 available by Monster skill for wildbows