Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => Mercenaries => Topic started by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 01:11:06 am

Title: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 01:11:06 am
Monsters are very different in Mercenaries...

A number of them can equip certain items, for instance...

The Minotaur can equip Clothes, Armguards, and Armlets.

Bombs can equip Helmets and Hats, because... well they're a giant head with arms, hehe.

Goblins are very versatile, they can equip Hat, Clothing, Shoes, Rings, and Armlets. These foes are not to be taken lightly.

Mindflayers can equip Robes, Staves, Rings, and Cloaks, definitely foes to watch out for (especially with their new reactions, but more on all that later.

The Bone Snatch is a relatively unique foe in Mercenaries, they can equip Swords, Shields, and even Bec De Corbins, their protective garb is Armor, Armguards and Cloaks.

Ghouls can equip Robes, nothing else.

Treants can only equip Rings

That's it for their equipment, because I made a grave error with Dark and Fire weapons most monsters have resistance to those two weapons, so it might not be best to use the newest Dark/Fire weapon one happens upon.

Also there are no longer subclasses of monsters, but I can easily still give certain ones their own skillsets, most of them were sacrificed for Bounties, (which will be talked about in another thread...) but regardles monsters can do with a rehaul of their current abilities. If you have any thoughts on what you would like to see rehauled (or perhaps new ideas for monsters to be put in) don't hesitate to speak up.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 20, 2009, 02:01:13 am
Humanoid Berserkers that can equip claws (and maybe axes, if they are still available to the player) and the berserker gear, but wih their own innate buffs? Not exactly original, but it's something that could really put a challenge to the player I believe.

And I believe Asmo made a Marlboro mage somewhere on the Sprite forum. I'd like to see that in action somehow. :3
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 20, 2009, 02:05:57 am
I wish there will be elemental monsters like flans, dragons, and bombs, for all elements, (+holy, dark, wind, earth, water)

Also, there should be mini-bosses for monsters, and their look would be like...
just they're bigger than their kind.

What's the limit for monster units, btw?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 02:16:34 am
I'm more or less talking about what we have, if anyone would offer a monster suggestion, I should hope they're ready to make it themselves. But I'm afraid that each class of monster only has a single class now, therefore the elemental bids are pretty much out, a lot of that is being taken over for Bounties.

Also, interesting you mention that Wasabi, the Berserker's are a group in Mercenaries, you get pieces of their set by accomplishing side quests dealing with them.
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 20, 2009, 02:27:13 am
Who should also consider the Blue Mage here. :P
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 02:33:14 am
Well mainly I'm asking for ideas on new monster skills to replace old ones and which class of monster it should belong to. If you can suggest a new monster (and prepare a sprite) by all means I'll accept it, though you may also suggest Blue Magic which is what this thread is also about.
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 20, 2009, 02:36:05 am
Haha. I wish I was good with these stuffs.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 20, 2009, 04:14:11 am
What, no Behemoths?  I would like to see Behemoths with nods to the past games.  The strongest ones not only were capable of brutal physical attacks, but you would often see them throw around some Flares too, and their dying blow would be a nasty attack like Meteor.  So... I suppose I'll suggest a Behemoth concept.  Are the Monster Skill abilities going to be in this patch, or should we limit suggested abilities to three?

Heave - Powerful physical attack with a chance of instance death.
Flare - However powerful you think it can be without being totally broken.
Parting Gift - Essentially the same as a Bomb's Self-Destruct but with either Meteor or Cloud's Meteorain graphics and maybe some tweaks to ranged and power.

If you have Tonberries, all of them must have the ??? status.

Knife - Death
Poke - Very high damage
Karma - Ranged attack.  Damage = caster's lost hp.  This right here is why they need to have ???.  It allows them to get enough damage without dying to make this attack both lethal and frightening, especially if your party is swarmed with Tonberries.
The strategy to fight them would be to try and outrun them while focusing on only one at a time so that there is only one powerful Karma at any given time, making it easier to revive characters that will inevitably die.  To actually keep it a decent challenge, Karma might should have some hefty range to it so that a bunch of bows or crossbows can't annihilate them without effort.

Yeah, I'm wanting to make the monsters very, very powerful... but they can't be recruited, and I think the Tonberry concept is perfectly beatable so long as you don't have a Berserked character and don't have a lousy setup.

Oh, and if you haven't already made plans for all the equipment already, how about giving certain monsters signature weapons, and the way to get those weapons is to steal them from the monsters?  I don't recall the Knife list of yours, but would there be room for a Tonberrion knife for this purpose?

EDIT:  Just checked.  I noticed the Cluster dagger is WP^2.  What do you think about making that the Tonberry knife?  I think it would fit the role well.
Title:
Post by: jimmyjw88 on September 20, 2009, 04:54:48 am
This is interesting ^^
So, basically, its old monsters with new skills or new monsters? Also, is there any changes for Lucavi, Sir LD? Like that Bomb Lord made by Curu; I think that would make an awesome Lucavi or Boss where it will summon his minions, Bomb. Hehe ^^
I wish I good at this
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 20, 2009, 06:13:16 am
Great ideas for monsters, Silvas! I agree that monsters should be very very powerful since they can't be recruited, and the party won't have access to their skills. (except using Learn from Blue Magic, but still can't get their full set)

QuoteAlso, is there any changes for Lucavi, Sir LD?

I salute you!
Title:
Post by: mav on September 20, 2009, 07:45:27 am
So with new subclasses, each monster is limited to one sprite and palette, right?

Anyway, monsters equipping items is brilliant! I dunno much about skillsets, but I'll start thinking of some (most likely drawing inspiration from some of the Final Fantasy games of yesteryear). Hopefully some more members will flutter by and drop their two cents.
Title:
Post by: Kagebunji on September 20, 2009, 09:32:49 am
Maybe something like this:

Movers(those three floating, red balls)
Divine Ultima- In other FF they had normal Ultima, but in FFT normal Ultima is weak, so Divine Ultima is better choice IMO
Delta attack- how about casting Bolt 3, three times?
Giga Flare- Maybe give this attack the same range as Bahamut got?(if possible)

Sprite for them will be hard to do though
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 20, 2009, 09:52:27 am
If you're going to call it "Divine Ultima" you may as well just name it Eschaton.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 11:09:26 am
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"What, no Behemoths?  I would like to see Behemoths with nods to the past games.  The strongest ones not only were capable of brutal physical attacks, but you would often see them throw around some Flares too, and their dying blow would be a nasty attack like Meteor.  So... I suppose I'll suggest a Behemoth concept.  Are the Monster Skill abilities going to be in this patch, or should we limit suggested abilities to three?

Curse my idiocy... ahem... well in any case monsters can have any set. Probably more then four abilities, but only four unique abilities to monsters.

Now for the monsters *currently* in the game, they are...

Chocobo, Goblin, Bomb, Cuar, Mindflare, Bone Snatch, Ghoul, Ahriman, Cockatrice, Treant, Iron Giant, Minotaur, Malboro, Behemoth, Dragon, Hydra, and a single unknown (mainly because I'm not even sure what to put...) Keep in mind though I made this before I considered the idea of multi-patching, the multi patch plan really frees up a few job slots for non-essential characters (Larg, Goltana, etc) all those classes can go towards something else.

QuoteHeave - Powerful physical attack with a chance of instance death.
Flare - However powerful you think it can be without being totally broken.
Parting Gift - Essentially the same as a Bomb's Self-Destruct but with either Meteor or Cloud's Meteorain graphics and maybe some tweaks to ranged and power.

Hmm, Heave is similar to Stab Up, isn't it? It just seems like Stab Up with a different name... having Flare as a monster only ability is pretty interesting and will be considered. Though what game is Parting Gift from?

QuoteIf you have Tonberries, all of them must have the ??? status.

Knife - Death
Poke - Very high damage
Karma - Ranged attack.  Damage = caster's lost hp.  This right here is why they need to have ???.  It allows them to get enough damage without dying to make this attack both lethal and frightening, especially if your party is swarmed with Tonberries.
The strategy to fight them would be to try and outrun them while focusing on only one at a time so that there is only one powerful Karma at any given time, making it easier to revive characters that will inevitably die.  To actually keep it a decent challenge, Karma might should have some hefty range to it so that a bunch of bows or crossbows can't annihilate them without effort.

Yeah, I'm wanting to make the monsters very, very powerful... but they can't be recruited, and I think the Tonberry concept is perfectly beatable so long as you don't have a Berserked character and don't have a lousy setup.

Oh, and if you haven't already made plans for all the equipment already, how about giving certain monsters signature weapons, and the way to get those weapons is to steal them from the monsters?  I don't recall the Knife list of yours, but would there be room for a Tonberrion knife for this purpose?

EDIT:  Just checked.  I noticed the Cluster dagger is WP^2.  What do you think about making that the Tonberry knife?  I think it would fit the role well.

Yes, there was a Tonberry sprites in the work but is it really high quality enough to go in Mercenaries? Granted one of our talented spriters could probably touch it up (which I would also like done with Exodus down the line...) Your ideas sound good, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving them anymore then 1,000 - 1500 HP. Knife, Poke, and Karma all sound good. Though as for "set weapons" In Mercenaries equipment is Next to Impossible to come across, Steal X, no longer exists. It it always an uphill struggle, in Mercenaries, money is normally fighting against you, but that doesn't mean that it can't be a mission reward, for fighting Tonberries. 100 Damage guaranteed each turn might not sound like a lot, but in Mercenaries that's a rather high number.

Cluster sounds good to give to them.

Quote from: "jimmyjw88"This is interesting ^^
So, basically, its old monsters with new skills or new monsters? Also, is there any changes for Lucavi, Sir LD? Like that Bomb Lord made by Curu; I think that would make an awesome Lucavi or Boss where it will summon his minions, Bomb. Hehe ^^
I wish I good at this


Exodus is the only new Lucavi (I Can't add Lucavi willy-nilly, when there's a set 13 already) revealed so far. But I wouldn't mind adding in the Bomb Lord, but I would like to see her finished product first for it,  before I think about adding it.

Quote from: "mav"So with new subclasses, each monster is limited to one sprite and palette, right?

Anyway, monsters equipping items is brilliant! I dunno much about skillsets, but I'll start thinking of some (most likely drawing inspiration from some of the Final Fantasy games of yesteryear). Hopefully some more members will flutter by and drop their two cents.

To an extent... many of them can still have alternate palettes, that's not really a problem. Also as Mercenaries is a tribute to the whole series, more classic skills are definitely not frowned upon.

Quote from: "Kagebunji"Maybe something like this:

Movers(those three floating, red balls)
Divine Ultima- In other FF they had normal Ultima, but in FFT normal Ultima is weak, so Divine Ultima is better choice IMO
Delta attack- how about casting Bolt 3, three times?
Giga Flare- Maybe give this attack the same range as Bahamut got?(if possible)

Sprite for them will be hard to do though

Movers? Those little things in FFV that give tons of AP? I'm... not sure they're exactly proper foes...
Title:
Post by: Kagebunji on September 20, 2009, 12:39:27 pm
I thought Movers won't fit, but they were in few FF series, so I just threw this idea.

QuoteIf you're going to call it "Divine Ultima" you may as well just name it Eschaton.
What's wrong with "Divine Ultima"? If I recall correctly, it was named like that in WotL. Or do you like Ultima2 more o_O?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 12:58:00 pm
Eschaton is the name they gave to Divine Ultima in FFXII, which was the reason he suggested that. But Ultima spells, along with Wish are special to me, they can't just be given without good reason. Ultima and its counterparts normally deals something in relations to Ultima herself.
Title:
Post by: Bloodthirster0 on September 20, 2009, 01:34:41 pm
from what I read around about mercenaries,it is not going to have lucavis,but Exodus,so changing 'em for big monsters like the Bomb Lord(by:Curu) would be a great idea

About the monsters,it would be awesome to put more classic monsters like Cactuars,Flans,Tonberry and etc,they can substitute the civilian sprites that arent used in game
Title:
Post by: Dormin Jake on September 20, 2009, 02:24:25 pm
Some random ability ideas. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/ is a pretty good place for inspiration and cobbling together ideas from other games.  Not that I've REALLY done so.  Abilities unchanged from vanilla except where noted.

Chocobo -
Choco Cure
Choco Esuna
Choco Ball
Choco Meteor

Goblin -
Goblin Punch - physical damage with chance to cancel charging
Turn Punch
Magic Hammer - MP damage, 2 or 3 range (Magic Break formula?)
Frog Drop - low magic damage with chance to add Frog

Bomb -
Self-Destruct
Burn - a la Invoker
Flamethrower - 2 panel linear fire damage
Burn Wave - Spark, but doesn't heal the Bomb, so they're more likely to use Self-Destruct when critical

Cuar -
Poison Nail - physical damage with poison
Shock - Invoker
Life Drain
Blaster

Mindflare -
Dominate - add charm
Odd Soundwave
Aqua Rake/Aqualung/Aquabreath - moderate water damage
Freeze - Invoker
Mind Blast - random confusion/berserk/addle

Bone Snatch -
Ancient Armor - self protect, Sandstorm animation
Shadow Lance - linear dark damage
Hollow Sword - sword skill with chance to add undead
Deathbloom - cancel all status effects on target, deal 1/3 (1/2?) HP damage (Death formula)

Ghoul -
Cold Touch - ice damage, chance to add slow
Sleep Touch
Silence
Spirit Surge - Invoker
Dark Chant - Invoker
Phantom Cry - magic damage, add darkness, Draw Out aoe

Ahriman -
Gale - Invoker
Look of Devil
Death Sentence
Circle
Demi/Demi 2

Cockatrice -
Feather Bomb - wind physical damage
Beak
??? really not sure what else to do here
Monk's Radiant Claw?
Warder's Slice Tendon?

Treant -
Tranquility - heals MP
Shelter - adds protect and shell to surrounding units
White Wind - heals HP in Draw Out radius
Enchant - low chance to add sleep in aoe, or moderate chance to single target (whichever sounds better)

Iron Giant -
got nothing at the moment

Minotaur -
Snort - 1/2 HP damage to target with float, cancel float (death formula)
Tremor - Invoker
Ogre Run - Monk
Earth Rave - 4-hit earth magic damage, 1 range, 1 aoe, does not hit caster
Earth Heal - self regen

Malboro -
Engulf - Invoker
Goo - 2 range, 1 aoe, high chance of don't move
Lick - self or 1 range heal
Bad Breath - same, but adds all or nothing poison/addle/confusion/darkness

Behemoth -
Sudden Cry/Heave
Meteor - high physical damage in 1 aoe of caster, Meteorain animation
Dark Matter - high magic damage to single target, high range, long charge time
???

Dragon -
Tail Swing - same, but with 2 range instead of 1 (long tail!)
Fire Breath
got plenty of ideas for elemental dragons, but that's understandably n/a here

Hydra -
made all my Hyrdas elemental dragons, so currently at a loss


If nothing else, hope this at least stirs some creative juices!  Things can be greatly expanded upon I'm sure.

LD, with your multi-patching idea, monster abilities could be progressive in strength.  Like if the original Black Magic existed, you could have Bombs use Fire in chapter/patch 1, Fire 2 in chapter/patch 2, and so on.  That way abilities are leveling up along with stats!  So you really do have quite a lot of creative room here.

tl;dr - hello, hi!
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 03:10:27 pm
Quote from: "Dormin Jake"Some random ability ideas. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/ is a pretty good place for inspiration and cobbling together ideas from other games.  Not that I've REALLY done so.  Abilities unchanged from vanilla except where noted.

Indeed, the wiki is a great source, though sometimes it's not a bit exact... regardless it's good enough.

QuoteChocobo -
Choco Cure
Choco Esuna
Choco Ball
Choco Meteor

We'll hopefully get something for these a bit later, I know FFTA 2 Greatly expanded on their skills, if I recall rght.

QuoteGoblin -
Goblin Punch - physical damage with chance to cancel charging
Turn Punch
Magic Hammer - MP damage, 2 or 3 range (Magic Break formula?)
Frog Drop - low magic damage with chance to add Frog

Frog Drop and Magic Hammer! That is Classic! (Well not really... it's mostly based on the Baknamy, which if they were to retcon FFT, I'm sure they'd be Baknamy) But great ideas! Frog is a very rare status in Mercenaries and makes the Perfect Blue Magic.

QuoteBomb -
Self-Destruct
Burn - a la Invoker
Flamethrower - 2 panel linear fire damage
Burn Wave - Spark, but doesn't heal the Bomb, so they're more likely to use Self-Destruct when critical

Interesting... I'd already lowered the MA of monsters to reasonable levels, but perhaps it's not needed after all, espcially if we use te Invoker's spells as reference, good ida. Thoug Burn Wave is an odd one for me to fathom...

QuoteCuar -
Poison Nail - physical damage with poison
Shock - Invoker
Life Drain
Blaster

Hmm... Cuar's might need some help, other than their signature Blaster.

QuoteMindflare -
Dominate - add charm
Odd Soundwave
Aqua Rake/Aqualung/Aquabreath - moderate water damage
Freeze - Invoker
Mind Blast - random confusion/berserk/addle

Oh, I like this I like this a lot! This is good work. Dominate is very characteristic of the D&D Monsters they're based off of, and a great way to stick in AquaRake, now That is classic.

QuoteBone Snatch -
Ancient Armor - self protect, Sandstorm animation
Shadow Lance - linear dark damage
Hollow Sword - sword skill with chance to add undead
Deathbloom - cancel all status effects on target, deal 1/3 (1/2?) HP damage (Death formula)

Now This! This is very creative, I love these ideas, but a few might need a little more assistance, then again... if Ancient Armor is free and instant it's... well it's very good, hehe. Shadow Lance is Great! And oddly makes me think of Dark Knight Cecil in Dissidia. A sword skill to add undead... I'm surprised I never thought about that. Now DeathBloom is an interesting one as well, but Death's Formula might not work as you think it might... It will only cancel and do damage, IF the target has those applied already. So it rips it from them and deals damage, which does give their name extra meaning... Definitely in love with this concept.

QuoteGhoul -
Cold Touch - ice damage, chance to add slow
Sleep Touch
Silence
Spirit Surge - Invoker
Dark Chant - Invoker
Phantom Cry - magic damage, add darkness, Draw Out aoe

Phantom Cry's pretty cool. Everything else is a bit simlar, though I do like that you gave them both Holy and Dark magic, that's pretty cool. Also keep in mind... Silence no longer exists, it's now Addle (horribly broken but... I'm doing my best to fix that) which makes you forget Every skill (It will get a CT to it eventually)

QuoteAhriman -
Gale - Invoker
Look of Devil
Death Sentence
Circle
Demi/Demi 2

A bit plain... let's see if we cant helpthe Ahriman down the line.

QuoteCockatrice -
Feather Bomb - wind physical damage
Beak
??? really not sure what else to do here
Monk's Radiant Claw?
Warder's Slice Tendon?

Not in love with this... the Slice Tendon is a nice touch though.

QuoteTreant -
Tranquility - heals MP
Shelter - adds protect and shell to surrounding units
White Wind - heals HP in Draw Out radius
Enchant - low chance to add sleep in aoe, or moderate chance to single target (whichever sounds better)

A support monster eh? Something that actually Looks like it will do it's job no doubt, should they also be given a revive spell as well (similar to 1.3)

QuoteIron Giant -
got nothing at the moment
We'll figure out something for this eventually...

QuoteMinotaur -
Snort - 1/2 HP damage to target with float, cancel float (death formula)
Tremor - Invoker
Ogre Run - Monk
Earth Rave - 4-hit earth magic damage, 1 range, 1 aoe, does not hit caster
Earth Heal - self regen

Snort is an interesting concept... but I'm not sure if Float needs to be more victimized then already is, but... it's worth a shot. Especially since so many of its skills are based around Earth elemental.

QuoteMalboro -
Engulf - Invoker
Goo - 2 range, 1 aoe, high chance of don't move
Lick - self or 1 range heal
Bad Breath - same, but adds all or nothing poison/addle/confusion/darkness

Hmm, Bad Breath is classic and is in FFT... but I think we should give them more, not sure what yet though.

QuoteBehemoth -
Sudden Cry/Heave
Meteor - high physical damage in 1 aoe of caster, Meteorain animation
Dark Matter - high magic damage to single target, high range, long charge time
???

Odd that you should mention Dark Matter, Dark Matter is the name of a status in Mercenaries which makes it so you can't be buffed at all. The only way to get rid of it is to set yourself on fire. Other then that... hmm... what else can be done with the Behemoth?

QuoteDragon -
Tail Swing - same, but with 2 range instead of 1 (long tail!)
Fire Breath
got plenty of ideas for elemental dragons, but that's understandably n/a here

Tail Swing is a nice addition, we'll have ideas for dragons in due time.

Hydra -
made all my Hyrdas elemental dragons, so currently at a loss[/quote]

Haha! It's no trouble we'll get ideas for them eventually.


QuoteIf nothing else, hope this at least stirs some creative juices!  Things can be greatly expanded upon I'm sure.

LD, with your multi-patching idea, monster abilities could be progressive in strength.  Like if the original Black Magic existed, you could have Bombs use Fire in chapter/patch 1, Fire 2 in chapter/patch 2, and so on.  That way abilities are leveling up along with stats!  So you really do have quite a lot of creative room here.

tl;dr - hello, hi!


That! That is a very interesting proposal... each patch would bring in a harder version of monsters, eh? Along with upgraded skills... it's not a bad idea, I really like it!
Title:
Post by: Eternal on September 20, 2009, 06:42:41 pm
In FFIV, Ahriman used Doom/Haste to speed up the enemy's ATB so they'd die faster. Perhaps we could make a move along that theme?
Title:
Post by: Zaen on September 20, 2009, 07:07:29 pm
I like that idea. Also, the Tonberry could just have very high HP, like 600-999 max, or it could just be ??? and a boss type enemy.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 20, 2009, 07:38:10 pm
I've only skimmed at the other lists, but I'll make a point on what piqued my interest the most. For Behemoths and Meteor/Meteorain, I was thinking of the random hit formula {1...10, maybe?}, high damage, AOE of 2 on caster (auto), and only accessible under critical status. I'm currently editing my patch with Cloud's "Limit" utilizing Meteorain with the random hit formula with a low MA multiplier, so why not for Behemoths in Mercernaries but with far more deadly appeal? :D
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 08:31:21 pm
Hmm, well there's no way to have a skill that the enemy will use only when critical, but 10 times sounds a bit... much, what 1.3 did was give Behemoth Meteorain and 1-3 times, but I don't want to use that directly. Now I like that idea of knocking them down to 1 HP, that's pretty interesting. Also yes, I was just thinking that... Tonberries will have pathetic HP growth (x10 from the "???") and that should keep them below 999 at least at the start. Oh I thought that was in reference to Stab Up, it wouldn't be 100% mind you, it would be 60% at most.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 20, 2009, 08:36:22 pm
Something in me feels that Bonesnatches should have the Invoker's Shock from the Cuar selection of abilities, and that Cuar's should have an ability that focuses on their attack and speed attributes. Maybe something like Scream from 1.3, but replacing Blind for another positive attribute (like, Berserk/Haste/Protect)?

And Ahriman's Doom/Haste ftw!!! You HAVE to put that in, it's too ingenious! :P

As for Iron Giant... Hmm, can Mighty Guard be implemented? Maybe a swordskill could be used to fill the gap, like Crush Punch but cancels charging? I suppose if they were to have a powerful spell, Flare/Shadowflare could be used. I'm also in the dark with this monster, but it helps to look for abilities that Iron Giants used in other FFs (other than Mighty Guard) to critique a better/unique skillset.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 08:46:02 pm
Might Guard can be implemented in a way... M Barrier in a 5 Panel and 2 Range, for the cost of 50 MP would sound fitting. I'm not so fond of Sworskills for the Iron Giant which... well doesn't have a sword. I couldn't see them being a main spellcaster, since they are a rather giant lumbering behemoth, hehe. Also the Ahriman will probably get... what was that skill called? I can't recall, I'm sure someone will be able to think of it.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 20, 2009, 08:46:18 pm
Oh, sorry LD, I was still talking about Tonberries when I mistakenly stated "Stab" for "Knife." ._.;;

As for the case of Behemoths, 10 might be a bit much yes. I was referencing to a variation of Reis'/Dragons' Holy Breath technique, but with the AOE like Draw Out in which it won't hit the caster. So, this variation of Meteor/Meteorain will inflict random hits (meaning, hit or miss) of high damage around the caster in an AOE of 2. I'm unsure if the AI would abuse a concept like this, but it would be effective for an "offense makes a better defense" type of strategy for Behemoths in a large melee setting of different groups.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 08:48:10 pm
Well the AI actually strays away from moves that it's marked "Random Hits" but the problem with large parts of that, is that Random Fire will only make it so it hits only 1 square in the large 2 AoE.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 20, 2009, 08:49:25 pm
O_O

Ahrimans... ROULETTE???

Low hit rate of casting instant KO, mayhaps?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 20, 2009, 08:50:56 pm
Roulette is already a skill in Mercenaries, it belongs to the Gambler and can cast Field Wide Slow/Haste on each individual character.
Title:
Post by: Zaen on September 20, 2009, 09:51:31 pm
People were talking about Tonberry sometime before in IRC... 2 Move, Medium speed. Knife - 100%, Everyone's Grudge - Max-Cur HP, 2 range. I think it's possible to balance out.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 20, 2009, 11:04:15 pm
QuoteHmm, Heave is similar to Stab Up, isn't it? It just seems like Stab Up with a different name... having Flare as a monster only ability is pretty interesting and will be considered. Though what game is Parting Gift from?
I think Heave is a more traditional name for the attack.  FFIII had Behemoth Kings use Meteor when they are low on health.  Behemoth Kings in V would counter any spell with Meteor.  In FFVI, Great Behemoths spam Meteor.  Also in FFVI, a dark colored Behemoth looking monster called Intangir will cast Meteor on whoever kills it.  In FFVI Advance, Dark Behemoths cast either Meteor or Ultima upon their death.  In FFVII, Behemoth Kings could cast Flare and Comet2, which is essentially a version of Meteo the player CAN cast.  In FFVIII, Behemoths can cast Flare, Tornado, Thundaga, and Meteor.  Catoblepas from the same game can also cast Thundaga and Meteor.  In FFIX, Behemoths counter most attacks with Meteor.  In FFX, Behemoth Kings will use Meteor upon their deaths, and Catoblepas would use Ultima upon its death.

So it has changed from game to game, but Behemoths have a tradition of either spamming, countering, or final attacking Meteor.  The concept for "Parting Gift" (the name is my own facetious idea) is meant to mimic a Behemoth casting Meteor when it dies.  Using the Self-Destruct formula should get the AI to emulate it close enough.


Eschaton pretty much has the same meaning as Divine Ultima also, and it is less of a mouthful.  To quote the FF wiki:  "The word Eschaton is related to Eschatology, a branch of theology which describes either a particular model of the end of the world or the study of such models, so it is a good replacement word for the more common 'Complete Ultima.'"

QuoteSilence no longer exists, it's now Addle (horribly broken but... I'm doing my best to fix that)
Is it possible to just set all abilities to be unavailable when Silence is applied?  Or is that what you attempted and isn't working...?

If you aren't going to have elemental dragons, then FFTA2 would likely be a good reference as they seem to branch away from the traditional stuff a bit.  FFXII also doesn't seem to give them elemental attributes, so maybe I can get some ideas of off that too.  I would personally prefer there being a wide variety of dragons, but I understand that the way you have things arranged makes the options limited.  (I'm a dragon fanatic.)
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 21, 2009, 12:00:21 am
Mmm... yeah, "Parting Gift" with the self-destruct formula would force the AI to use it exclusively when it is in critical status. With a ??? HP count, this would make it pretty gruesome as well (as it should). Maybe add an element to the skill that the Behemoth can negate it with so that it doesn't immediately KO itself, because of the formula (like Holy, if there's no available equipment that would cancel/absorb that element)?

I suppose my suggestion for making it random was just a bit out there, since it can be spammed like crazy without attaining critical status. Maybe nerfing the MA can solve this, but the Meteorain visual effect might become an eyesore I think? :(
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 21, 2009, 02:08:31 am
The Self-Destruct formula gives a status 100% to the caster, in the case of the vanilla Bomb skill, Death.  Element has nothing to do with it.  If it is to emulate the dying attacks of other Behemoths of the series, then it needs to inflict Death upon itself.  But... if it didn't inflict a status upon itself, then it would spam it increasingly often the weaker it gets.  While that's an interesting concept, I'm far more inclined to go with the final vengeance attack idea, not because I suggested it but because it is more traditional and, in my opinion, more fun.

Since it is likely to have an AoE regardless, giving it the ??? status might not be a good idea.  Once anything with that kind of attack accumulates 999 damage, it winds up having an attack that will completely murder any player-character it hits.  Combined with an AoE, that is exceedingly vicious.

That does give me an idea for a Master Tonberry though.  Make it half all elements that have attacks, have innate Def Up and MDef Up and innate Protect and Shell, low speed, and here's the gimmick:  Give it relatively low HP and change Karma to Everyone's Grudge.  Make it hit all enemies.  The idea there is that all the defensive boosts should manage to keep it alive a long time, like normal Tonberries' high hp, but Everyone's Grudge would still be survivable despite hitting all your characters regardless of distance.  What's the actual math for Def Up and MDef up again?  I don't know how much HP to expect Rad and Ramza to be capable of or how much HP Gafgarion would be expected to have, but 500 max HP should make it survive longer than a normal Tonberry that has 1000 max HP, and if Mercenaries' HP isn't geared to be low, Everyone's Grudge should be survivable.  If the HP is meant to be low, then Master Tonberries could be made less durable than normal Tonberries in exchange for the boosts Everyone's Grudge gets compared to Karma.

Here's my stab at a list of abilities for dragons to have:
Fireball - Single target, ranged.
Ice Orb - Single target, ranged.
Lightning - Single target, ranged.
Fire Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range.
Ice Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range.
Thunder Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range.
White Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range, non-elemental, chance of inflicting Stop.
Mighty Guard - Shell, Protect, Haste
Restore - Would All-or-nothing Cancel Critical make it so that it could only use this ability when it is in Critical?  Make it cure all negative status and fully heal it, but flag it for random use so there is only a chance it will save itself with this.

Mighty Guard could have a different name if something different with that name is used on something else.  Greater Barrier, or maybe just Barrier could work.  This set up would make Dragons quite versatile and dangerous, but they would mainly be magical attackers that strike single targets, making them more manageable.  They should have a physical attack of some sort, but at least one physical attack was already suggested and it seems alright to me.  Alternatively, they could be given a venomous bite so that they could have a physical attack with some nice debuffs to fall back on.

My earlier Behemoth suggestion makes them pretty much specialize at striking one enemy at a time with whatever is likely to hurt more between melee and magic, which in turn makes it require a team effort to take down, which in turn makes caution all that more important if they are given Parting Gift.  So basically Behemoths have a chance of wiping you out if you aren't prepared for that final attack, Dragons are very formidable for just not wanting to die on top of being strong and versatile, and Tonberries would be just plain hard to kill and become increasingly deadly as the fight goes on.  Apparently I really like giving monsters some sort of trump card...
Title:
Post by: Dormin Jake on September 21, 2009, 02:43:48 am
Especially glad ye liked my Goblin and Bone Snatch, LD.  Ashamed I missed Silence!  I managed to catch myself on all its other occurrences, but I didn't filter the spell itself.  FAIL.
Title:
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 21, 2009, 09:04:12 am
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"The Self-Destruct formula gives a status 100% to the caster, in the case of the vanilla Bomb skill, Death.  

actually, the self-destruct formula simply adds status to all targets at 100% chance rate, and will always include the caster in the AoE (however, it is hardcoded to deal 100% of max hp damage to the caster as well, so the status to caster doesn't really matter.)
Title:
Post by: Eternal on September 21, 2009, 01:11:49 pm
LD, could we use Calculator skills for the monsters?

I was thinking Ahriman could have like Lv. 5 Death, or Trents could have Lv. 3 Sleep or something. I realize those spells aren't necessarily in Mercs, but the Lv. X spells could be a nice little nod to other FF's. Perhaps we could nerf them by giving them an MP Cost/CT?
Title:
Post by: jimmyjw88 on September 21, 2009, 01:14:04 pm
Calculator...yeah. I think that's great. ^^
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 21, 2009, 01:30:15 pm
Huh...  That is a creative way to give them those classic abilities.
Title:
Post by: Sephirot24 on September 21, 2009, 02:14:31 pm
Woo! I liked Lvl 5 / 4 / 3 abilities back then :)
You could update the 1st post later so that we can see what's still missing and help with it.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 21, 2009, 03:47:49 pm
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"
QuoteHmm, Heave is similar to Stab Up, isn't it? It just seems like Stab Up with a different name... having Flare as a monster only ability is pretty interesting and will be considered. Though what game is Parting Gift from?
I think Heave is a more traditional name for the attack.  FFIII had Behemoth Kings use Meteor when they are low on health.  Behemoth Kings in V would counter any spell with Meteor.  In FFVI, Great Behemoths spam Meteor.  Also in FFVI, a dark colored Behemoth looking monster called Intangir will cast Meteor on whoever kills it.  In FFVI Advance, Dark Behemoths cast either Meteor or Ultima upon their death.  In FFVII, Behemoth Kings could cast Flare and Comet2, which is essentially a version of Meteo the player CAN cast.  In FFVIII, Behemoths can cast Flare, Tornado, Thundaga, and Meteor.  Catoblepas from the same game can also cast Thundaga and Meteor.  In FFIX, Behemoths counter most attacks with Meteor.  In FFX, Behemoth Kings will use Meteor upon their deaths, and Catoblepas would use Ultima upon its death.

So it has changed from game to game, but Behemoths have a tradition of either spamming, countering, or final attacking Meteor.  The concept for "Parting Gift" (the name is my own facetious idea) is meant to mimic a Behemoth casting Meteor when it dies.  Using the Self-Destruct formula should get the AI to emulate it close enough.

An interesting history on Behemoth, what should the status be that it uses when the Meteor does strike?


QuoteEschaton pretty much has the same meaning as Divine Ultima also, and it is less of a mouthful.  To quote the FF wiki:  "The word Eschaton is related to Eschatology, a branch of theology which describes either a particular model of the end of the world or the study of such models, so it is a good replacement word for the more common 'Complete Ultima.'"

QuoteSilence no longer exists, it's now Addle (horribly broken but... I'm doing my best to fix that)
Is it possible to just set all abilities to be unavailable when Silence is applied?  Or is that what you attempted and isn't working...?

If you aren't going to have elemental dragons, then FFTA2 would likely be a good reference as they seem to branch away from the traditional stuff a bit.  FFXII also doesn't seem to give them elemental attributes, so maybe I can get some ideas of off that too.  I would personally prefer there being a wide variety of dragons, but I understand that the way you have things arranged makes the options limited.  (I'm a dragon fanatic.)

Well that's exactly what I did, it works great, the only problem is it works Too well, Silence never wears off normally, and with only two people it's doubtful that you'll be carrying the few skillsets which alleviate it, I would ideally like to give it a CT. Zodiac and I have a few plans in the mix to do that... but... only time will tell. Oh are the dragons in FFTA2 a bit more unique? That could be a good point of reference.

Quote from: "Wasabi"Mmm... yeah, "Parting Gift" with the self-destruct formula would force the AI to use it exclusively when it is in critical status. With a ??? HP count, this would make it pretty gruesome as well (as it should). Maybe add an element to the skill that the Behemoth can negate it with so that it doesn't immediately KO itself, because of the formula (like Holy, if there's no available equipment that would cancel/absorb that element)?

I suppose my suggestion for making it random was just a bit out there, since it can be spammed like crazy without attaining critical status. Maybe nerfing the MA can solve this, but the Meteorain visual effect might become an eyesore I think? :(

You guessed it, that giant 2 sized AoE, everything in it (in the enormous 16 square range) is only a single chance that it can hit any of the 16 squares, it's very impractical.


Quote from: "SilvasRuin"The Self-Destruct formula gives a status 100% to the caster, in the case of the vanilla Bomb skill, Death.  Element has nothing to do with it.  If it is to emulate the dying attacks of other Behemoths of the series, then it needs to inflict Death upon itself.  But... if it didn't inflict a status upon itself, then it would spam it increasingly often the weaker it gets.  While that's an interesting concept, I'm far more inclined to go with the final vengeance attack idea, not because I suggested it but because it is more traditional and, in my opinion, more fun.

This is actully a mistake on Wasabi's part, the status caused by the Self Destruct is Oil, not Death, it's referring to the status of thos affected by it (similarly the Doom Archer skill of the Archer uses the same formula, except it causes confusion)

QuoteSince it is likely to have an AoE regardless, giving it the ??? status might not be a good idea.  Once anything with that kind of attack accumulates 999 damage, it winds up having an attack that will completely murder any player-character it hits.  Combined with an AoE, that is exceedingly vicious.

That does give me an idea for a Master Tonberry though.  Make it half all elements that have attacks, have innate Def Up and MDef Up and innate Protect and Shell, low speed, and here's the gimmick:  Give it relatively low HP and change Karma to Everyone's Grudge.  Make it hit all enemies.  The idea there is that all the defensive boosts should manage to keep it alive a long time, like normal Tonberries' high hp, but Everyone's Grudge would still be survivable despite hitting all your characters regardless of distance.  What's the actual math for Def Up and MDef up again?  I don't know how much HP to expect Rad and Ramza to be capable of or how much HP Gafgarion would be expected to have, but 500 max HP should make it survive longer than a normal Tonberry that has 1000 max HP, and if Mercenaries' HP isn't geared to be low, Everyone's Grudge should be survivable.  If the HP is meant to be low, then Master Tonberries could be made less durable than normal Tonberries in exchange for the boosts Everyone's Grudge gets compared to Karma.

Very, very nice idea! I love this. It's highly creative and is an incredibly dangerous fight.
QuoteHere's my stab at a list of abilities for dragons to have:
Fireball - Single target, ranged.
Ice Orb - Single target, ranged.
Lightning - Single target, ranged.
Fire Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range.
Ice Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range.
Thunder Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range.
White Breath - Linear attack, 2-3 range, non-elemental, chance of inflicting Stop.
Mighty Guard - Shell, Protect, Haste
Restore - Would All-or-nothing Cancel Critical make it so that it could only use this ability when it is in Critical?  Make it cure all negative status and fully heal it, but flag it for random use so there is only a chance it will save itself with this.

Mighty Guard could have a different name if something different with that name is used on something else.  Greater Barrier, or maybe just Barrier could work.  This set up would make Dragons quite versatile and dangerous, but they would mainly be magical attackers that strike single targets, making them more manageable.  They should have a physical attack of some sort, but at least one physical attack was already suggested and it seems alright to me.  Alternatively, they could be given a venomous bite so that they could have a physical attack with some nice debuffs to fall back on.

Too much... far too much, I still have a limit on the skills I can use, I can give them Dragon Breath, which is also a skill of the Dragoon, I personally prefer the Two panel Tail Swing, Dormin thought up, as it gives them some manner of physical attack as well, I don't want to give them all manner of attack and defense, Restore is a nice idea though, I'll take that into consideration.

QuoteMy earlier Behemoth suggestion makes them pretty much specialize at striking one enemy at a time with whatever is likely to hurt more between melee and magic, which in turn makes it require a team effort to take down, which in turn makes caution all that more important if they are given Parting Gift.  So basically Behemoths have a chance of wiping you out if you aren't prepared for that final attack, Dragons are very formidable for just not wanting to die on top of being strong and versatile, and Tonberries would be just plain hard to kill and become increasingly deadly as the fight goes on.  Apparently I really like giving monsters some sort of trump card...

With only control over two people's setup, I don't like the thought of one always carrying Hymns just to get through a battle, Trump cards are nice, but their should be a limit.

Quote from: "Eternal248"LD, could we use Calculator skills for the monsters?

I was thinking Ahriman could have like Lv. 5 Death, or Trents could have Lv. 3 Sleep or something. I realize those spells aren't necessarily in Mercs, but the Lv. X spells could be a nice little nod to other FF's. Perhaps we could nerf them by giving them an MP Cost/CT?

We have discussed this in length on IRC and thanks to Neo-Kamek we see that it is truly a possibility, I will get to that in due time.



EDIT:
Quote from: "Sephirot24"Woo! I liked Lvl 5 / 4 / 3 abilities back then :)
You could update the 1st post later so that we can see what's still missing and help with it.


Lamia is a nice creature... and there is the FFTA one directly ported from FFTA in the Japanese Sprites, if someone wants to take a stab at making it look decent, please, be my guest. It would  be a nice addition.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 21, 2009, 04:06:52 pm
QuoteOh are the dragons in FFTA2 a bit more unique? That could be a good point of reference.
Apparently not as much as I remembered.  It was mainly their elemental resistances that were... interesting.  FFXII is where non-elemental dragons truly seem to shine.  Mostly it was non-elemental breaths that would inflict stop, sap, or other maladies, fireball, high level spells like the -agas, some had Darkra, and often they had some sort of buffing or healing ability that would make them extra nasty.

I was worried I was giving them too many abilities.  As I said, I'm a dragon fanatic... I like them being powerful and versatile.
And yeah, that last sentence about the trump cards was more of an observation than a suggestion.  I started to notice that I might be making monsters too powerful.
Title:
Post by: Eternal on September 21, 2009, 05:07:35 pm
Dragon Force and Mighty Guard, perhaps?
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 21, 2009, 08:45:56 pm
I never mentioned that the self-destruct formula imparts the "KO" status on the caster or anything else, just that the formula KOs the caster in the manner that it deals the current amount of HP that the user lost minus its maximum onto itself (along with the spread damage). That's why I suggested adding an element to the skill, so that if the monster (Behemoth) has an element immunity to the skill (Holy element), it won't damage the caster. Lost in translation, I guess? If so I apologize. :?

And Lamias should definitely be in this patch. I can already see a monster that spams status effects in this game, Charm especially.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 21, 2009, 08:47:58 pm
Well actually... that doesn't work. I tried that, the HP still goes down, since Elemental calculation isn't taken in that way.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 21, 2009, 09:30:21 pm
I see, LD. And thanks for the heads up on both the self-destruct formula and my Meteorain query. :)

So, I did some research for Iron Giant. It's most common features are its high HP and defensive properties (mainly a variety of either elemental or status defenses along with its huge physical defense; traditionally weak against water but a weakness to lightning has also been found). They also traditionally wield a massive sword, but having seen the already made Iron Giant sprite I doubt that could be implemented. Maybe it can be like the FFIV Iron Giant, where its main attacks are typically beams (Automaton's "Dispose" a good suggestion?). But concerning their physical attack (mainly due to the massive sword), they usually hit in a "sweeping" range that targets multiple units, so something like Tail Sweep perhaps?

It also has a knack of using Hurricane / Twister and gravity magic, as well as an assortment of other magic spells, but no real definitive list of spells it traditionally uses. And in FFVII, they use a technique called "Adrenaline." Not sure what that does exactly. And in Crystal Chronicles, when it doesn't have its sword, it uses techniques called "Ram" and "Thunder Fist." "Ram" is just your typically charging attack, whereas "Thunder Fist" is a skill it uses where it jumps and punches the ground for lightning damage around itself.

So, here's my theoretical suggestion for the Iron Giant:

Iron Giant: ??? HP, extremely rare encounter, [secret] boss encounter. Innate Regen/Protect/Slow
Charge/Tackle/Punch (whichever) - single-targeting physical attack
Beam/Laser - just like Dispose, but with a range of 5 or less.
Thunder Fist - lightning/earth physical damage, AOE 2 around itself.
Graviga/Demi2
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 21, 2009, 10:08:41 pm
I'll reiterate again that I think the Behemoth skill should cause its own death on casting due to what seems to me to be the more common tradition.

I don't know how Dragon Force might be done without yanking Scream for it, and Scream can be nastily overpowered.  Though... if MP is used up for abilities with MP costs for monsters in Mercenaries, then their uses of it could be limited by an MP cost... just as long as there is nothing that can heal up their MP.  I'm rather wary of suggesting Dragon Force being put in.  (Though I suppose it would provide an incentive for the player to not to put off engaging the dragons or something.)

LastingDawn, were you planning on having only one Dragon breath attack or multiple elemental breaths?  If it is only one, were you planning for Fire, non-element, or something else?  If there's only going to be one, I suggest non-element and making it plenty good enough to warrant getting close enough to use, both for the Dragon and the Dragoon.

If the breath is made poisonous, then I suppose it would step on the toes of Bad Breath a little.  I like the gimmicks of the FFXII Dragons, but perhaps straight up solid damage is best.  It is too bad the FFTA AoEs for breath attacks isn't something we can easily mimic.
Ok, let's try again with the dragon suggestion:
Dragon Breath - 2 panel magical, non-elemental is my preference
Tail Swing - 2 panel melee
Mighty Guard - Or whatever ability with Protect and Shell you want to give them, preferably only able to be placed on the caster.
Restore - Only usable when Critical.  If a 100% HP is too much, then it could be lowered to 75% or 50% to make it less of a game breaker.

There's not a ranged attack included in there.  any decently powerful spell could do for one, depending on how versatile you want them to be.  If you want to carry over FFTA2's and FFXII's tendency to make them Dark aligned, you could give them Dark Holy and name it something more traditional, like Darkra or just Dark.

Lamias would be a good excuse to fit in the Blue Magic Night.  Make Lamias immune to sleep so it doesn't hurt them to cast it, then give them a weak physical attack (Slap) designed to wake up the other enemies after Night is used.  Dash's formula should work well for that.
Title:
Post by: Eternal on September 21, 2009, 10:51:43 pm
Slap usually inflicted status ailments, also, such as Paralyze, Blind, and Silence. Just for the record. =D
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 21, 2009, 11:24:10 pm
Oh right.  >_>  Name it Wake-Up Slap then?  Or Smelling Salts or something.  The point is what it does, not what it is called.
Title:
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 21, 2009, 11:35:56 pm
The lack of speed of the tonberry and iron giant is probablly not actually best simulated by a low speed value in tactics, but a low MOVE value, since a two low speed value just makes the unit incredibly weak, regardless of it's other stats, since even if it has some 999 damage huge AoE move that kills three or four people every time it gets a turn, if you get 12 turns to its one, you'll never actually be in danger of losing provided you have some halfway decent sandbag capability.

Iron Giant - Ancient weapon from the time of St. Ajora, given life by the power of the holy stones
HP - Great
MP - poor
PA - Great
MA - Great
Speed - Great (20ish speed at level 99)
Move - 2
Jump - 4
Innate: Cannot enter water, walk in lava

Crush - basic physical attack, may inflict sleep or confusion (hits with enough force to daze or outright knock out with a single blow)
Laser - dispose effect, holy element, deals 50% max hp damage to a single target at long range (based off of the blue magic spell)
Judgement - basicly to the Holy spell what Flare 2 is to the Flare spell (based off of the Alexander summon/esper)
Title:
Post by: Shade on September 22, 2009, 02:56:19 pm
Ok this topic is fun.

Monster rebalancing:

Tomberry (if we are going to have it.)
Have the karma cost mp and give tomberry move mp up. it will be fair. and try to have right max mp so tomberry can use it every turn still.

Chocobo
Chocobo Meteor should have only 2 changes, AOE of fire spell, charge time, but not too big.

Ghost
new abilitys to ghosts:
Doom - 100% death sentence to 1 panel
Zombie Infection - In 1.3 there malak has more hits in his spells and that combined with summon aoe and 100% zombie status.
Mega Doom - same as polka polka, but death sentence instead of reducing stats and it's instant.

Ahriman
New Abilitys:
Shadow Realm - Summon AOE and 50% change to inflict Dark Matter
Call Of Fear - Change to inflict stop, don't act. don't move
Flare 2 - you know it
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 22, 2009, 03:34:19 pm
If it has enough max mp to use it every turn still, then what does giving it an MP cost accomplish?  ...unless it is supposed to be Blue Magic.  I suppose that would work to reduce how often a Blue Mage could use it, but I don't know that Karma was planned to be given to Blue Mages.

Zombie Infection is very impractical as that is a very wide area to cover try try and get some hits in.

I've never known an Ahriman to cast Flare throughout the games.  Or do you remember something I don't?
Title:
Post by: Shade on September 22, 2009, 04:08:38 pm
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"If it has enough max mp to use it every turn still, then what does giving it an MP cost accomplish?  ...unless it is supposed to be Blue Magic.  I suppose that would work to reduce how often a Blue Mage could use it, but I don't know that Karma was planned to be given to Blue Mages.

Zombie Infection is very impractical as that is a very wide area to cover try try and get some hits in.

I've never known an Ahriman to cast Flare throughout the games.  Or do you remember something I don't?

I meant opposite of it.

Dude it's same thing as the holy bracelet from vanilla. Expect it has more hits and zombie status instead of damage or element.

If I do not remember right one of ahrimans in FFX or FFX-2 could cast flare, but that's stupid to say. Think about... I don't know A CHOCOBO FROM FFT! So do you recall them having chocobo cure in every came before this?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 22, 2009, 04:32:30 pm
Quote from: "Shade"
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"If it has enough max mp to use it every turn still, then what does giving it an MP cost accomplish?  ...unless it is supposed to be Blue Magic.  I suppose that would work to reduce how often a Blue Mage could use it, but I don't know that Karma was planned to be given to Blue Mages.

Zombie Infection is very impractical as that is a very wide area to cover try try and get some hits in.

I've never known an Ahriman to cast Flare throughout the games.  Or do you remember something I don't?

I meant opposite of it.


Dude it's same thing as the holy bracelet from vanilla. Expect it has more hits and zombie status instead of damage or element.

If I do not remember right one of ahrimans in FFX or FFX-2 could cast flare, but that's stupid to say. Think about... I don't know A CHOCOBO FROM FFT! So do you recall them having chocobo cure in every came before this?

Ahem... no, he's right. If you would have Read the topic, you would have seen that we already confronted this issue and crushed it, Random Hits, in a large AoE Then 5 squares is just Too much of a waste of time.

Also Mercenaries is meant to be a Tribute to other FF games, and Flare is just a copout, when we could think of something much more meaningful to give to the class. Also Horrible example with Chocobos. Chocobos weren't Fought in any other FF game Up Until FFT, so your argment is moot as FFT did set the standard for their skills in all further games since. Don't have such a militant tone here either, it seems as if you're going out of your way to subtly insult people who are only critiquing your ideas.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 22, 2009, 04:35:39 pm
FFT had an excuse to give Chocobos new abilities.  It was the first game to feature them as full combat enemies that wouldn't run away when first struck.  They needed a full roster of abilities, and they only had Choco Kick and Chocobuckle before FFT.

One Ahriman I've looked at so far had level 3 Flare.  Most have Doom + Haste and level based abilities, not straight up attacks.

Edit:  Yeah, after looking through them, level abilities and Doom that may or may not include Haste are by far the most common abilities.  Stares and Roulette are two other semi-recurring kinds of abilities.
Title:
Post by: Eternal on September 22, 2009, 04:36:00 pm
Skip, why do Iron Giants have 'great' speed? IIRC, all the Iron Giants in the series have been fairly slow.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 22, 2009, 04:44:14 pm
I believe Skip addressed that.  I got the impression his reasoning was low Move should emulate the traditional low speed, not low speed itself.  Thing is... low Move means it is slower about getting to you, but once it has caught up to your characters, it no longer has that handicap unless you've spread them out pretty well.  Maybe a combination of mediocre speed and move is better than low one or the other.
Title:
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 22, 2009, 04:51:24 pm
as I said, I choose to represent the iron giants lack of agility as a lack of movement rather then a lack of speed, since overly low speeds result it a drastic drop in difficulty, you you should still be able to outspeed it with dedicated speed jobs/equips, but it shouldn't be decimated easilly due to a lack of actions. At worst it should be about even with the party in terms of speed, but not much slower, oryou'll just double/triple turn it to death with no effort. If 20ish speed at level 99 still seems to fast, maybe give it Initial: Slow, so it starts off slow, but after it warms up, it goes into overdrive.

:EDIT: @SilvasRuin
part of the reason I like the use of low move instead of low speed, is that lighter, more mobile units have an advantage over more powerful, but less mobile units. The idea is that no human could possibly be strong enough to stand toe to toe with this thing, so you want to play keep away with ranged weapons and spells, or otherwise get flattened into the ground.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 22, 2009, 05:15:47 pm
Quote from: "Wasabi"I see, LD. And thanks for the heads up on both the self-destruct formula and my Meteorain query. :)

So, I did some research for Iron Giant. It's most common features are its high HP and defensive properties (mainly a variety of either elemental or status defenses along with its huge physical defense; traditionally weak against water but a weakness to lightning has also been found). They also traditionally wield a massive sword, but having seen the already made Iron Giant sprite I doubt that could be implemented. Maybe it can be like the FFIV Iron Giant, where its main attacks are typically beams (Automaton's "Dispose" a good suggestion?). But concerning their physical attack (mainly due to the massive sword), they usually hit in a "sweeping" range that targets multiple units, so something like Tail Sweep perhaps?

It also has a knack of using Hurricane / Twister and gravity magic, as well as an assortment of other magic spells, but no real definitive list of spells it traditionally uses. And in FFVII, they use a technique called "Adrenaline." Not sure what that does exactly. And in Crystal Chronicles, when it doesn't have its sword, it uses techniques called "Ram" and "Thunder Fist." "Ram" is just your typically charging attack, whereas "Thunder Fist" is a skill it uses where it jumps and punches the ground for lightning damage around itself.

So, here's my theoretical suggestion for the Iron Giant:

Iron Giant: ??? HP, extremely rare encounter, [secret] boss encounter. Innate Regen/Protect/Slow
Charge/Tackle/Punch (whichever) - single-targeting physical attack
Beam/Laser - just like Dispose, but with a range of 5 or less.
Thunder Fist - lightning/earth physical damage, AOE 2 around itself.
Graviga/Demi2

Well thanks for the information, I think Skip Sandwich has the right of way on this though. Great history to it, Thunder Fist in particular sounds interesting. that might make it in.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"I'll reiterate again that I think the Behemoth skill should cause its own death on casting due to what seems to me to be the more common tradition.

I don't know how Dragon Force might be done without yanking Scream for it, and Scream can be nastily overpowered.  Though... if MP is used up for abilities with MP costs for monsters in Mercenaries, then their uses of it could be limited by an MP cost... just as long as there is nothing that can heal up their MP.  I'm rather wary of suggesting Dragon Force being put in.  (Though I suppose it would provide an incentive for the player to not to put off engaging the dragons or something.)

LastingDawn, were you planning on having only one Dragon breath attack or multiple elemental breaths?  If it is only one, were you planning for Fire, non-element, or something else?  If there's only going to be one, I suggest non-element and making it plenty good enough to warrant getting close enough to use, both for the Dragon and the Dragoon.

If the breath is made poisonous, then I suppose it would step on the toes of Bad Breath a little.  I like the gimmicks of the FFXII Dragons, but perhaps straight up solid damage is best.  It is too bad the FFTA AoEs for breath attacks isn't something we can easily mimic.
Ok, let's try again with the dragon suggestion:
Dragon Breath - 2
panel magical, non-elemental is my preference
Tail Swing - 2 panel melee
Mighty Guard - Or whatever ability with Protect and Shell you want to give them, preferably only able to be placed on the caster.
Restore - Only usable when Critical.  If a 100% HP is too much, then it could be lowered to 75% or 50% to make it less of a game breaker.

There's not a ranged attack included in there.  any decently powerful spell could do for one, depending on how versatile you want them to be.  If you want to carry over FFTA2's and FFXII's tendency to make them Dark aligned, you could give them Dark Holy and name it something more traditional, like Darkra or just Dark.

Lamias would be a good excuse to fit in the Blue Magic Night.  Make Lamias immune to sleep so it doesn't hurt them to cast it, then give them a weak physical attack (Slap) designed to wake up the other enemies after Night is used.  Dash's formula should work well for that.

Non elemental Dragon Breath was my plan, and I agree with you on the Behemoth self-destruct, but what status effect, or effect file should be used for it? I am not so fond of Mighty Guard for the Dragon, it just seems too much to me, I still do like Restore, I guess Darkra will do.

Now Night is tricky... Sleep in FFT is Completely overpowered, there is no spell in Mercenaries that guarantees Sleep on enemies, because of how broken it is, the player can abuse it to no end. I'm not so fond of making this a blue magic... it just seems too much.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"The lack of speed of the tonberry and iron giant is probablly not actually best simulated by a low speed value in tactics, but a low MOVE value, since a two low speed value just makes the unit incredibly weak, regardless of it's other stats, since even if it has some 999 damage huge AoE move that kills three or four people every time it gets a turn, if you get 12 turns to its one, you'll never actually be in danger of losing provided you have some halfway decent sandbag capability.

Iron Giant - Ancient weapon from the time of St. Ajora, given life by the power of the holy stones
HP - Great
MP - poor
PA - Great
MA - Great
Speed - Great (20ish speed at level 99)
Move - 2
Jump - 4
Innate: Cannot enter water, walk in lava

Crush - basic physical attack, may inflict sleep or confusion (hits with enough force to daze or outright knock out with a single blow)
Laser - dispose effect, holy element, deals 50% max hp damage to a single target at long range (based off of the blue magic spell)
Judgement - basicly to the Holy spell what Flare 2 is to the Flare spell (based off of the Alexander summon/esper)

Fully agreed, low Move Stat should represent low "movement". Though keep in mind levels in Mercenaries only go up to 50, that's 10 levels per patch, since balance isn't Too far broken than and it's not a 999 one shot game yet.
 I like your reference to the Iron Giant being similar to Alexander, and everything else there looks solid, I'll probably add in the Thunder Fist ability mentioned earlier if I can.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 22, 2009, 05:33:41 pm
I like the Alexander reference too.  Creative combination, and it makes sense to do so.  Laser being Holy is an interesting departure.

I'm not quite sure which you mean about the effect file.  I don't see why it should inflict any status.  Meteorain (100) or Meteor (02F), either one will do for visual.  Formula could be 43, 4F, or 52 as long as the caster can't be outside of its range and avoid it.
Title:
Post by: Eternal on September 22, 2009, 08:45:34 pm
Ah, I apologize, Skip. I missed that part.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 22, 2009, 10:18:12 pm
Initial: Slow, movement of 2 and mediocre - high speed for Iron Giants is fine with me. In fact, I think it's better than my suggestion of lowering speed. :P
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 22, 2009, 10:47:26 pm
I don't know much about skills, but I'll contribute with the sprites.
I've finished a quick sprite for the skeleton.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 22, 2009, 10:55:59 pm
Perfect but uh... where's the portrait?
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 22, 2009, 11:01:34 pm
Haha. I forgot the portrait!!! hmm..
I was going to be late for school so I didn't have time to place it.

I still need to edit it once I go home so it isn't officially finished yet, but playable.
Title:
Post by: jimmyjw88 on September 23, 2009, 12:28:08 am
Great work Mike. So, Goblin will be done as well? ^^
Title:
Post by: dwib on September 23, 2009, 03:33:11 am
Quote from: "LastingDawn"The only way to get rid of it is to set yourself on fire.
liking this a lot!

there are tons of other ideas for other monsters that are definitely possible sprite-wise such as
Death Claw
http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/espmon/deathclaw.shtml (http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/espmon/deathclaw.shtml)
Cactuar
http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/espmon/cactuar.shtml (http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/espmon/cactuar.shtml)
Catoblepas (FFV version)
http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/espmon/catoblepas.shtml (http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/espmon/catoblepas.shtml)

also if that flan spite is still being worked on it could easily be used as a base for a hecteyes sprite
Title:
Post by: Sephirot24 on September 23, 2009, 03:38:36 am
Oooohhh :) Catoblepas, Hecteyes, Cactuar... they're awesome. Being that FFIX is my favorite FF of all the time, I'm in love with classic FF stuff ^^
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 23, 2009, 06:23:58 am
Good thinking everyone.
Well, here's the finished Skeleton sprite.
Test it everyone!

I'm going to submit this in the site submissions
if I ever finish more palettes.
Title:
Post by: Vanya on September 23, 2009, 07:39:48 am
You should submit it anyway. Ppl can add their own palettes are use the ones from the original sprite.
This is yet another thing I was planning on doing that got bone by someone else.

Edit: As a matter of fact I took the liberty to apply the other 2 original palettes...
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 23, 2009, 09:01:18 am
Yes, thanks Vanya! I liked the green and red palettes. :)
I should submit it now.
Title:
Post by: Vanya on September 23, 2009, 09:04:08 am
No problem! Thanks to you for making it in the first place! ^_^
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 23, 2009, 08:06:55 pm
Thank you very much Vanya, this should fix the problems.
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 24, 2009, 07:13:08 am
^ Updated the palettes. The .spr file can be found on the site submissions. :)

QuoteGreat work Mike. So, Goblin will be done as well? ^^

Hmm.. maybe no, since they will not be able to equip swords?
Title:
Post by: boomkick on September 24, 2009, 02:16:08 pm
Just throwing a random idea out there for Chocobos since i'm kinda too lazy to read through the rest of the pages i missed.

Monster Skill- Choco Gust - Deals random wind damage in a 2 AOE. Four Range Instant Cast.
Title:
Post by: Vanya on September 24, 2009, 02:23:08 pm
Goblins should be able to equip knives, LD!! |:(
If you want to have stuff that harkens to earlier FF games that one is a must have!!

See! They almost always have a knife:

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/1/13/Goblin-ff1-psp.png)
(http://www.videogamesprites.net/FinalFantasy4/Enemies/Goblin.gif)
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/thumb/5/5f/GoblinFFIX.png/200px-GoblinFFIX.png)
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/thumb/9/90/Goblinffxi.jpg/180px-Goblinffxi.jpg)
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/e/ef/Goblin.jpg)
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/f/fb/Ffcc_goblin.jpg)
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/3/33/VS-enemy-goblin.gif)
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 24, 2009, 02:51:31 pm
I guess I never really considered that... Alright, knife it is, but that will make them well... I shiver at their power and numbers, if they happen to get a few PA Saves along with a five hit Multi-Strike, heh... alright, Knives sound good then. If someone doesn't mind to complete the Goblin sprite, I'll be pretty much obliged to give Knives to them, hehe.
Title:
Post by: Vanya on September 24, 2009, 03:10:47 pm
Limit them to only the weakest knife?
They've also been known to use flails and axes.
Title:
Post by: Zaen on September 24, 2009, 03:38:39 pm
Flails and axes? That's overkill. Catoblepas would be amazing, but I prefer the VIII version.

Goblins should be fine with knives, no worry about the weakest only.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 24, 2009, 03:39:03 pm
I like the idea for adding Cactuars, but... can anyone imagine them equipping any gear? Accessories might work, but I have no real knowledge of the accessories in Mercernaries. Maybe something that increases their ungodly evasion rates? I can only imagine seeing them equipped with cloaks to find them rather cute and comedic. ^^
Title:
Post by: dwib on September 24, 2009, 04:33:05 pm
Quote from: "Zaen"Catoblepas would be amazing, but I prefer the VIII version.
Might as well just recolor a Behemoth in that case

Knives on Goblins is a great idea! Don't limit them too much on knives though... make their strongest possible knife have WP 5 or so? (equivalent of platina dagger)

I'd imagine cactuars would have high c-ev... no equips needed
Title:
Post by: Sephirot24 on September 24, 2009, 04:36:18 pm
Catoblepas could be based off a Behemoth, right. You just have to remove the mane, and make the horns a little more bull-ish. Take a look at FFIX's version. I can't imagine it equipping anything though =/
Title:
Post by: Zaen on September 24, 2009, 05:07:15 pm
It probably wouldn't need equips.
Title:
Post by: Vanya on September 24, 2009, 07:45:47 pm
Quote from: "Sephirot24"Catoblepas could be based off a Behemoth, right. You just have to remove the mane, and make the horns a little more bull-ish. Take a look at FFIX's version. I can't imagine it equipping anything though =/

I down right hate the design for the behemoth type enemies in FF12.
On a side note the Reaver enemies were actually strangely localized. The Reavers' Japanese name was Apanda. Stupid.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 24, 2009, 08:03:41 pm
I see no point in differentiating between Behemoths and Catoblepases, because they've been essentially the same through the series, just recolors.

I think both Apanda and Reaver are from FFV, and have that appearance too.  It's not TOO terrible a name switch... I mean, it is the same reference.  At least, I think the identical monster's name was Reaver...  Maybe I'm wrong.

I would like to see Apanda/Reavers made werewolfish creatures and/or Vincent's Galian Beast.
Title:
Post by: Setzer on September 24, 2009, 08:31:58 pm
Wrong. ^^
Catoblepas are Behemoths recolors just in FFVIII and FFX.
In 3 from the first 4 games he is a Basilisk recolor.
In FFIII he is a winged bull.
In FFV, FFVI and FFIX he is a long neck bull.

Since he is aiming for a reference to the first games of the series, a Basilisk/Catoblepas sprite is a better option, so the Basilisk, a classic enemy present in almost every FF, could be added too.

Just Apanda was from FFV. Reaver is a Ivalice Alliance only enemy, a Behemoth recolor, added to WotL just to make the serie a little more "into" Ivalice, killing a reference to the FFV enemy. Byblos was from FFV.
Yes, the change was stupid.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 24, 2009, 08:34:42 pm
Oh, right, Byblos.  Yeah, that annihilated the reference then.
Title:
Post by: Dormin Jake on September 24, 2009, 09:04:53 pm
Is it really essential to have a Catoblepas/Basilisk?  If you're looking for a horned, bull-like beast, you already have Behemoths and even Minotaurs to fill that role.  If you want something with petrifying powers, like a Basilisk or Shoat's stone gaze type abilities, you've already got the mighty Cockatrice and it's Beak of peckish doom.

Even though they're enemies present in plenty of earlier games, they really just don't feel unique enough, considering the role that a Catoblepas would play is already well covered in FFT.  Unless you wanted to remove avians for lizard-bulls or somesuch.  Which would be even more sprite work.
Title:
Post by: Vanya on September 24, 2009, 09:09:30 pm
I'd keep the bird.
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 25, 2009, 04:26:05 am
Someone should work next on the Support and Reaction abilities, too.. :)
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 25, 2009, 03:05:50 pm
I can probably think those through. The only things to be considered is whether reaction abilities should stack or not for some corresponding monsters.
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 25, 2009, 04:22:23 pm
I'd be evil and want to give Critical Quick to the Behemoths like I would the Bombs.

It's not doable for mercenaries, but I thought of a delicious counter ability one could make for things like Behemoth and the uber bosses.  Sacrificing Geomancy could allow you to make something counter with whatever you want, be it Flare (Counter Flare Behemoths in FFT... muahahahah), ultima, slow, etc.  You could in fact plan very carefully ahead about what monster goes where and give a fair number of enemies that ability and they each have a different counter.
Title:
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 25, 2009, 04:59:19 pm
You could do the same thing with Counter Tackle, by only sacrificing the dash ability, you know
Title:
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 25, 2009, 05:17:06 pm
...ohright.  Don't I feel foolish?  That means the lovely Counter Flare some super enemies through FF history have had can be put into Mercenaries.  Awesome.  Hm... slap it on one boss per chapter and you can have a different one each time.  Everyone's Grudge could be set to a counter ability.  That or give the Behemoths Counter Flare.  I suppose if their MA isn't TOO high, it wouldn't be too terrible a counter for them.  It would be especially nice if you could set it up so there was a 50/50 chance of a Counter Flare or a normal Counter.  I'd have to take another look at Zodiak's math on multiple counters to figure out how doable that is...
Title:
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 25, 2009, 06:24:33 pm
I think this should be helpful..
from: http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/magic.shtml (http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/magic.shtml)
Haven't read them yet..

???? (5, 7 BL)
    Effect: HP and max HP-related damage.

1000 Needles (7CC/8 in Cactuar summon; 9/X-2 BL; 10 non-usable; 12 AB; 12RW Cactoid)
    AKA: Blow Fish (5/6 BL)
    Effect: Exactly 1000 HP worth of damage regardless of enemy defenses. In FF8 it multiplies it by a certain amount. FF10 also has 10,000 and 100,000 Needle attacks, though characters can't learn them. In 12RW, it's just a regular attack.

Aero (2 MG; 3 WM; 5/6 BL; 8 MG; 9 non-usable; 12/MQ BM; 12RW Sylph; TA/TA2 Bishop/Sage)
    Effect: Air-elemental attack. 12 also has Aeroga.

Alert (8/9 SA)
    Caution (5 SA,Tactics-PSX Thief), Pre-emptive (7 SA), Initiative (10 SA, X-2 Thief), Vigilance (Tactics Thief)
    Effect: Prevents back attacks or increases Preemptive Strike chances.

Aqua Breath (8/9/10 BL)
    AKA: Aqua Rake (5/6 BL), Aqualung (7 BL)
    Effect: Water-elemental attack on all enemies.

Arise (5/12/Tactics/TA2 WM)
    AKA: Life2 (1/3/4/6 WM; 7 MG), Full-life (8 MG, 10/X-2/TA WM; CC MG), Life (MQ WM), Raise 2 (11/Tactics-PSX)
    Effect: Revive ally with full HP

Armor Break (9 Steiner, 10 Auron, 12j AB, X-2 Warrior, 11 Great Axe, Tactics Knight, TA)
    AKA: Expose (12), Rend Armor (12RW Sky Soldier/Sky Pirate, TA2 Master Monk)
    Effect: Breaks armor or lowers defense.

Auto-Haste (8/9/10/X-2 SA)
    Effect: Haste status is always in effect during battle.

Auto-Potion (8/9/10/Tactics SA)
    Effect: Character uses potion when hit.

Auto-Protect (9/10 SA; X-2 Mascot)
    Effect: Character always in Protect status.

Auto-Reflect (8/9/10/X-2 SA)
    Effect: Reflect status is always in effect during battle.

Auto-Shell (9/10 SA; X-2 Mascot)
    Effect: Character always in Shell status.

Bad Breath (7/8/9/10/X-2/TA/TA2 BL, 7CC/12RW/Tactics Malboro)
    AKA: Bad Bracelet (Tactics-PSX Malboro),Sour Mouth (6 BL)
    Effect: Adds many status ailments to entire enemy party. It exists in 12 but can't be learned byt he party.

Berserk (2 MG; 4/5 WM; 6 DM; 7/8 MG; 9 WM; X-2 Berserker; 11 Warrior; 12 AM; 12RW Ba'Gamnan; Tactics Beowulf)
    AKA: Fervor (Tactics YY), Blind Rage (Tactics-PSX Mystic)
    Effect: Causes Berserk status. In X-2 can only be used on self.

Bio (3/4/5/6; 8 MG; 9/11/12 BM; 12RW BM/Kytes; TA/TA2 Sage)
    AKA: Virus (4a BM), Bio2/Bio3 (7 MG), Biora (Tactics Reaver)
    Effect: Strong attack, adds Poison status

Black Shock
    AKA: Flash (5 BL), Dischord (6 BL)
    Effect: Lowers enemy's level by half.

Blind (1 BM; 2 MG; 3 BM; 8 MG; 9 WM; 11 BM; 12 GM; Tactics-PSX YY;TA/TA2 Sage/GM)
    AKA: Blindga (12RW BM)
    AKA: Umbra (Tactics YY; Tactics Beowulf)
    Effect: Causes Blind status

Blink (2 MG; 4/5 WM)
    AKA: Invis (1n WM), Invis1 (1 WM), Invisible (11 WM)
    Effect: Raise evade % of target, or cause attacks to completely miss.

Blizzaga (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/12/TA/TA2 BM; 12RW Kytes; CC MG; Tactics BM)
    AKA: Ice3 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX BM; 7 MG), Blizzard III (11 BM)
    Effect: Strong ice-elemental attack. In CC, can cause Frozen status.

Blizzara (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/12/TA BM; TA2 BM/Seer; CC MG; Tactics BM)
    AKA: Ice2 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX BM; 7 MG), Blizzard II (11 BM)
    Effect: Medium ice-elemental attack. In CC, can cause Frozen status.

Blizzard (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/11/12/MQ; TA/TA2 BM/RM; 12RW BM/TM/Shivan/Shivar; CC MG; Tactics BM)
    AKA: Ice (1 BM; 2 MG; 3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX BM; 7 MG)
    Effect: Weak ice-elemental attack. In CC, can cause Frozen status.

Break (1 BM; 2 MG; 3/5/6 BM; 7/8 MG; 9 BM; X-2 Dark Knight; 12 TM; Tactics Beowulf; TA/TA2 Bishop)
    AKA: Stone (4/11 BM), Induration (Tactics YY), Petrify (Tactics-PSX Mystic)
    Effect: Causes Petrify or Stone status. In 7 this also deals Earth damage. In 11, does not petrify, only deals Earth damage.

Chakra (5 Monk; 9 Amarant; 11/Tactics/TA Monk; 12RW Monk/Champion)
    AKA: Mantra (6 Sabin)
    Effect: Recovers HP and possibly MP or status for a character.

Cherry Blossom (9 Freya; Tactics Cloud)
    Effect: Strong physical attack on all enemies.

Climhazzard (7 Cloud; 9 Steiner; Tactics Cloud)
    Effect: Physical damage against one enemy.

Comet (4 Twin; 5 DM; 7 MG; 9 BM; 12RW TM/Ashe)
    Effect: Non-elemental attack. See "Meteor".

Confuse (1n BM; 3 WM; 7/8 MG; 9 WM; X-2 Dark Knight; 12 AM; Tactics Beowulf)
    AKA: Charm (4 WM, 12 AB), Muddle (1 BM, 2 MG, 5 WM, 6 DM), Confusiong Song (Tactics-PSX Mystic), Delirium (Tactics YY), Confusega (12RW BM)
    Effect: Cause Confusion status

Counter (5/11 Monk; 8/9/Tactics/TA/TA2 SA)
    AKA: Counter Attack (7 SA), Counterattack (10 SA; X-2 Berserker)
    Effect: Character physically attacks whenever damaged.

Cover (4 Cecil; 5 Knight; 7/8/9/TA SA; 11/TA2 Paladin; 12RW Basch)
    AKA: Sentinel (10 Auron, X-2 Warrior)
    Effect: Character takes damage instead of an ally. The True Knight relic has this effect in 6.

Cure (1 WM; 2 MG; 3/5/6 WM; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/11/12/MQ WM; TA/TA2 BM/RM; 12RW White Hare/Carbuncle; CC MG)
    AKA: Cure1 (4 WM)
    Effect: Small HP gain

Cura (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/12/TA/Tactics WM, TA Bishop; TA2 Bishop/Seer; CC MG)
    AKA: Cure2 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX WM; 7 MG), Cure II (11 WM)
    Effect: Medium HP gain

Curaga (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/12/TA/TA2/Tactics WM; 12RW WM/Penelo; CC MG)
    AKA: Cure3 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX WM; 7 MG), Cure III (11 WM)
    Effect: Large HP gain

Curaja (12/Tactics WM)
    AKA: Cure 4 (Tactics-PSX WM), Cure IV (11 WM)
    Effect: Huge HP gain

Darkside (8 AB; 9 Steiner)
    Dark Wave (4 Cecil), Darkness (7CC AB, X-2 Dark Knight), Souleater (12 AB)
    Effect: Damages enemy at HP cost to self.

Death (2 MG; 3/4 BM; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9/Tactics BM; X-2 Dark Knight; 12 AM; TA Alchemist; TA2 Arcanist)
    AKA: XXXX (1n BM), Fatal (4a BM), Doom (1/5/6 BM)
    Effect: Instantly kills enemy, heals undead fully

Death Sentence (7 BL,Tactics-PSX)
    AKA: Condemn (5/6 BL, Tactics Orator), Doom (8/9/10 BL; X-2 Dark Knight), Countdown (9 Amarant; 12 TM)
    Effect: Counter appears above target's head; when counter is at 0, target dies.

Dispel (4/5 WM; 6 DM; 8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2 WM; 11 RM; 12 WM; TA/TA2 Bishop)
    AKA: DeSpell (7 MG), Dispelga (12RW WM/Fran); Dispel Magic (Tactics-PSX Mystic), Harmony (Tactics YY), Despair (Tactics Beowulf)
    Effect: Erases all magical effects from target

Drain (2 MG; 3/4/5/6 BM; 8 MG; 7CC/9/10/11 BM; X-2 Dark Knight; 12 AM; 12RW Ba'Gamnan/Atomos; Tactics Beowulf; TA Sage; TA2 Arcanist)
    AKA: Life Drain (Tactics YY)
    Effect: Drain HP from target to caster

Esuna (2 MG; 4 WM; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9/10/12/X-2/TA WM; TA2 WM/Seer)
    AKA: Heal (3/4a/5/MQ WM; Tactics-PSX Squire), Remedy (6 WM), Esunaga (12RW WM/Penelo), Clear/Clearaga (CC MG), Salve (Tactics Squire)
    Effect: Cure all status ailments

Final Heaven (6j Sabin; 7 Tifa; 8 Zell)
    Effect: Strongest physical attack.

Fira (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/12/X-2/TA BM; TA2 BM/Seer; CC MG; Tactics BM)
    AKA: Fire2 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX BM; 7 MG), Fire II (11 BM)
    Effect: Medium fire-elemental attack. In CC, can cause Burn status effect.

Firaga (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/12/X-2/TA/TA2 BM, 12RW BM/TM/Kytes; CC MG; Tactics BM)
    AKA: Fire3 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSCX BM; 7 MG), Fire III (11 BM)
    Effect: Strong fire-elemental attack. In CC,can cause Burn status effect.

Fire (1 BM; 2 MG; 3/4/5/6 BM; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9/10/12/X-2/11/MQ/Tactics BM; TA/TA2 BM/RM; 12RW BM/TM/Lamia; CC MG)
    AKA: Fire1 (4 BM)
    Effect: Weak fire-elemental attack. In CC, can cause Burn status effect.

Fire Breath (8/10/X-2 BL; TA Dragoon)
    AKA: Emission (5 BL), Flame Thrower (7 BL)
    Effect: Fire attack on one enemy.

Flametongue (X-2 Warrior)
    AKA: Emission (5 BL), Flame Thrower (7 BL), Fire Sword (12RW Warmage), Fire Blade (7CC)
    Effect: Sword attack with fire element.

Flare (1 BM; 2 MG; 3/4/5/6 BM; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9/10 BM; X-2 GG; 12 BM; 12RW BM/Kytes/Chaos; MQ Wizard; Tactics BM; TA/TA2 Alchemist)
    AKA: Nuke (1n/4a BM)
    Effect: Ultimate fire-elemental attack (in 8, it's fire/ice/bolt-elemental and in 10 it's non-elemental).

Flee (9 Zidane, 10 Tidus, X-2/11 Thief; TA2 Sky Pirate)
    Effect: Instantly allows all characters to run away from battle. In TA2 it raises Move and Jump stats.

Float (4 WM; 5/6 DM; 8 MG; 9 WM; 12 TM)
    Effect: Causes target to Float.
    AKA Levitate (Tactics TM)

Focus (9/10/X-2 BM)
    Effect: Raises magic power.

Frog Song (5, 7 BL)
    AKA Toadsong (TA2 Animist)
    Effect: Turns target into a sleeping Frog.

Full Cure (7 MG; 7CC BM; Selphie's Limit Break in 8; 10/X-2 WM)
    AKA: Renew (12 WM)
    Effect: Cures all HP for one target or a very large amount of HP for multiple targets; in 12 cures all HP for all targets.

Gil Toss (5 Samurai, 12 AB, 7CC AB; TA/TA2 Juggler)
    AKA: Coin Toss (6 Setzer), Coin (7 AB), Spare Change (9 Amarant; 10 Rikku; X-2 Samurai; 12j AB)
    Effect: Cause damage to the enemy by throwing money.

Gillionaire (10 SA; X-2 Lady Luck)
    AKA: Millionaire (9 Quina), Gilfinder (11 Thief)
    Effect: Get more Gil after battle.

Goblin Punch (5/7/9 BL; 7CC AB; 12/Tactics enemy spell; 12RW Goblin; TA BL)
    Effect: Physical attack which costs no MP; if enemy is on same level as caster, effect is greater.

Graviga/Gravija (7CC BM; 8/10 non-usable, 12 AM; 12RW Zodiark; CC MG;Tactics TM; TA2 Arcanist)
    AKA: Demi3 (7 MG), Demi2 (5 BM; Tactics-PSX TM), Quarter (6 BM, TA TM), Gravira (CC MG)
    Effect: Target(s) lose(s) a high % of HP

Gravity (7CC BM; 11 RM; 12 AM; 12RW Diabolos; CC MG;Tactics TM; TA2 Arcanist)
    AKA: Demi (5 DM; 6 BM; 7/8 MG; 9/10 BM; X-2 Dark Knight; Tactics-PSX/TA TM)
    Effect: Target loses a certain % of HP. In CC, target is also brought to the ground.

Haste (1 BM; 2 MG; 3/4 WM; 5/6 DM; 7/8 MG; 9/10/11 WM; 12/Tactics TM TA/TA2 TM/Templar)
    AKA: Fast (1n BM; 4a WM)
    Effect: Raise target's speed

Hastega (10/11 WM; 12/Tactics TM; 12RW TM/Ashe; X-2 GG; CC MG; TA2 TM)
    AKA: Haste2 (5, 6 DM)
    Effect: Raises targets' speed

Holy (2 MG; 3/4/5 WM; 8 MG; 9/10/11/12/Tactics WM; X-2 GG; 12RW WM/Penelo/Zarela; TA/TA2 Bishop; CC MG)
    AKA: Pearl (6 BM), White (4a WM; MQ Wizard)
    Effect: Strong Holy-elemental attack. Part of the storyline in 7. In CC, makes undead creatures take physical form (and therefore vunerable to physical attacks).

Holyra (CC MG)
    AKA: Holy II (11 WM)
    Effect: Next-level Holy-elemental attack. In CC, hits all targets and makes undead creatures take physical form (and therefore vunerable to physical attacks).

HP Stroll (10 SA; X-2 Trainer)
    AKA: Move-HP Up (8 SA,Tactics-PSX Monk)
    AKA Lifefont (Tactics Monk)
    Effect: HP is recovered as you walk around.

Ice Brand (X-2 Warrior)
    AKA: Blizzard Sword (5/9 SM), Frostbite/Freezebite (11 Greatsword), Icestrike (CC MG), Blizzard Sword (12RW Warmage), Blizzard Blade (7CC)
    Sword attack with ice element

Level 3 Flare (5 BL)
    AKA: Level 4 Flare (6 BL), LV? S-Flare (TA BL)
    Effect: All enemies at a level divisible by 3 (or 4) are hit with a Flare spell.

Level 5 Death (6/7/9 BL)
    AKA: Level 5 Doom (5 BL), Level?Death (8 BL)
    Effect: All enemies at a level divisible by 5 are instantly killed. In 8 it depends on Quistis's HP. All the "level X" skills are also done (with FAR more variety) by the Arithmetician in Tactics.

Libra (3 WM; 7CC/12 SA; X-2 Floral Fallal)
    AKA: Rabur (4 WM), Peep (4a WM), Scan (4 WM, 5 WM and Blue Mage ability; 6 DM; 7/8 MG; 9/10 WM; X-2 Gun Mage), Analyze (5 BL); Study (TA2 Scholar)
    Effect: Sees enemy HP/MP, sometimes also weaknesses and other info

Liquid Steel (X-2 Warrior)
    AKA: Water Sword (5/9 SM)
    Effect: Sword attack with water element.

Magic Break (9 Steiner, 10 Auron, X-2 Warrior, 12j AB, Tactics Knight, TA Warrior/Soldier)
    AKA: Skullbreaker (11 Club), Shear (12 AB), Rend Magick (12RW Sky Soldier/Sky Pirate; TA2 Warrior/Soldier)
    Effect: Lowers enemy's magic power.

Magic Hammer (5/7/9/TA BL); Magick Hammer (TA2 BL)
    AKA: Fear (12 enemy spell)
    Effect: Spell lowers target MP (in 7 the caster gains MP as well).

Manipulate (7 AB)
    AKA: Control (5 Mediator, 6 Relm, TA/TA2 Beastmaster), Charm (11 Beastmaster)
    Effect: Controls an enemy's actions.

Mental Break (9/10/X-2/12j AB)
    AKA: Addle (12 AB), Rend Mind (12RW Sky Soldier/Sky Pirate)
    Effect: Lowers enemy's magic defense.

Meteor (3/4 BM; 5 DM; 6 BM; 8 MG; 9 BM; 10/X-2 non-usable; MQ Wizard; Tactics TM, TA Alchemist)
    AKA: Comet2 (7 MG), Protometeor (TA2 Alchemist)
    Effect: Multi-hit non-elemental attack on all enemies. See "Comet".

Mighty Guard (8/9/10/X-2/TA/TA2 BL; 12RW Tiamat/Warmage)
    AKA: Guardian (5 BL), Big Guard (6/7 BL), Perfect Guard (12 enemy spell), Might Guard (12RW Tiamat), Aegis (Tactics Princess)
    Effect: Casts Protect, Shell, and sometimes Haste on the entire party. In Tactics it's just on one person.

Mime (5 Mime; 6 Gogo; 7 AB; Tactics Mime)
    AKA: Copycat (10 Rikku)
    Effect: Mimics the last action done by an ally.

Mini (2 MG; 3/4/5 WM; 7 MG; 9 WM)
    AKA: Size (4a WM)
    Effect: Turn target to/from Midget status

Missile (5 BL)
    AKA: Laser (7 BL)
    Effect: Halves target HP.

Mug (5 Thief; 7/8/9 SA; 7CC AB; 10 Rikku; X-2 GG; 11 Thief; TA Soldier; TA2 Trickster)
    AKA: Capture (6 Locke)
    Effect: Steal and attack simultaneously. In 11, allows thief to steal gil.

No Encounters (10 SA; X-2 SA)
    AKA: Enc-None (8 SA)
    Effect: Allows you to walk around without running into random battles.

Osmose (2 MG; 6 DM; 7CC/9/10 BM; X-2 GG)
    AKA: Psych (4a BM), Asper (5 BM), Aspir (4/11 BM), Empowerment (Tactics YY), Syphon (12 AM; TA2 Arcanist), MP Absorb (X-2 BM), Spell Absorb (Tactics-PSX YY);Syphon (Tactics Beowulf)
    Effect: Drains MP from target to caster

Poison (5/6 BM; 8 MG; 7CC/9/11 BM; 12 GM; Tactics BM, TA Alchemist/Red Mage; TA2 Alchemist)
    AKA: Venom (3/4 BM), Bio (7 MG; 10 BM; X-2 Dark Knight)
    Effect: Poisons enemy plus (usually) loss of HP

Poisona (7 MG; 11/12 WM)
    AKA: Esuna (1 WM), Pure (1n/3 WM), Antidote (5/6 WM), Panacea (9 WM)
    Effect: Cures Poison (and Venom).

Power Break (9 Steiner, 10 Auron, 12j AB, X-2 Warrior, Tactics Knight, TA Soldier/Warrior)
    AKA: Wither (12 AB), Rend Power (12RW Sky Soldier/Sky Pirate; TA2 Soldier/Warrior)
    Effect: Lowers enemy's attack power.

Protect (8 MG; 9/10/X-2/11 WM; 12 GM; Tactics/TA WM; TA2 GM/RM)
    AKA: Shield (2 MG), Safe (3 WM; 6 DM), Armor (4 WM) Protes (5 WM), Barrier (7 MG, 7CC WM), Protectga (12RW WM/Basch)
    Effect: Raises physical defense

Pray (4 Rosa, X-2 White Mage)
    AKA: Health (6 Banon)
    Effect: Heals a small amount of HP to the whole party.

Quake (1/3/4/6/7CC BM; 7/8 MG; MQ BM; Tactics non-usable; TA2 BL)
    AKA: Earth Shake (9 BL), Earthquake (10 non-usable), Tremor (12 non-usable)
    Effect: Strong earth-elemental attack on all enemies

Quick (5/6 DM; Tactics TM)
    AKA: Quicken (TA TM)
    Effect: Allow for multiple actions for a short amount of time. Tidus's Quick Hit in 10 has a similar ability.

Raise (5/11/12/Tactics WM; TA2 WM/Seer; 12RW Penelo)
    AKA: Life (1n WM; 2 MG; 3/6 WM; 7/8 MG; 9/10/X-2/TA WM; CC MG), Life1 (1/4 WM)
    Effect: Revive ally with minimal HP

Reflect (5 WM; 6 DM; 7/8 MG; 9/10/X-2 WM; 12/Tactics/TA/TA2 TM)
    AKA: Wall (1n/3/4 WM), NulAll (1)
    Effect: Causes spells to bounce back from target

Regen (5 DM; 6 WM; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/11/12/Tactics WM)
    AKA: Regenga (12RW TM/Ashe)
    Effect: Causes HP to slowly regenerate

Reraise (11/Tactics/TA/TA2 WM)
    AKA: Life 3 (6 WM), Auto-Life (9 BL; 10 WM), Raise (7CC WM)
    Effect: Character comes back to life when killed.

Return Magic (9/10/Tactics/TA/TA2 SA)
    Effect: When hit with magic, character casts same magic on opponent.

Revive (5 Chemist ability; 8 AB; 9 Amarant; Tactics Monk; TA2 White Monk)
    AKA: Raise (TA Sage)
    Effect: Revive from KO with about half (or more) HP.

Roulette (5/6/7/9/TA BL; TA2 non-usable)
    Effect: Randomly kills one fighter from either side

Sacrifice (9 Zidane)
    AKA: Pep Up (5/6 BL), Revive (12 AB)
    Effect: Completely removes caster from battle and completely heals one ally.

Shell (2 MG; 4/5 WM; 6 DM; 8 MG; 9/10/X-2/11 WM; 12 GM; Tactics/TA WM; TA2 GM/RM)
    AKA: MBarrier (7 MG, 7CC WM), Shellga (12RW WM/Basch)
    Effect: Raises magic defense

Shock (6 Leo; 9 Steiner; 12 BM; Tactics Beowulf)
    AKA: Shockwave (11 Greatsword)
    Effect: Strong physical attack against all enemies.

Sight (3/4 WM)
    Effect: See more of the world map

Silence (1 WM; 2 MG; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9 BM; 11 WM; 12 GM; Tactics Beowulf; TA TM/Templar; TA2 GM/RM/Templar)
    AKA: Mute (1n WM; 3/4/5 WM; 6 DM), Quiescence (Tactics YY), Silencega (12RW BM), Silence Song (Tactics-PSX Mystic)
    Effect: Stops target from casting spells

Sleep (1n BM; 2 MG; 3/4/5 BM; 6 DM; 8 MG; 9 BM; 11 BM; 12 GM; Tactics-PSX Mystic; TA Red Mage; TA2 GM)
    AKA: Sleep1 (1 BM), Sleepel (7 MG), Sleepga (12RW BM), Repose (Tactics YY; Tactics Beowulf)
    Effect: Puts target to sleep

Slot (6 Setzer, 7 Cait Sith, 8 Selphie; X-2 Lady Luck)
    Effect: Random effects, including heavy damage, curing the party, and ending battle immediately. Wakka's Overdrive (in 10) also uses slots, as does all of the Gadgeteer's abilities in TA.

Slow (2 MG; 4 WM; 5/6 DM; 7/8 MG; 9 BM; 10/11 WM; 12/Tactics/TA/TA2 TM; CC MG)
    Effect: Lowers enemy's speed

Slowga (10/11 WM; 12/Tactics TM; 12RW TM/Ashe; CC MG)
    AKA: Slow2 (5/6 DM)
    Effect: Lowers enemies' speed

Steal (3/5/10/X-2/11 Thief; 4 Edge; 6 Locke; 7/7CC AB; 9 Zidane; Tactics/TA Thief; TA2 Sky Pirate)
    Effect: Steal an item from an enemy.

Steal Gil (9 Zidane(SA); Tactics/TA Thief)
    AKA: Pilfer Gil (10/X-2 Thief), Mug (11 Thief)
    Effect: Steal Gil from an enemy.

Stona (1/9/11/12 WM)
    AKA: Soft (1n/3 WM)
    Effect: Heals Stone status

Stop (2 MG; 4 BM; 5/6 DM; 7/8 MG; 7CC/9 BM; 12/TA/TA2 TM; CC MG)
    AKA: Paralyze (11 WM), Timeslip (12RW Vaan), Stopga (12RW TM), Hesistation (Tactics TM)
    Effect: Paralyzes target

Suicide (used by Bomb throughout the series)
    AKA: Exploder (5, 6 BL), Self-Destruct (10 BL, 12RW Bomb, TA2 BL), Charon (X-2 Dark Knight), Blowup (TA BL)
    Effect: Kills caster in exchange for a strong fire or non-elemental attack on one enemy.

Teleport (11 WM)
    AKA: Exit (1n WM; 2 MG; 3/4 WM), Warp2 (1 WM), Telepo (5 DM), Warp (6 DM; 11 WM)
    Effect: Warps party out of a dungeon.

Throw (5/Tactics/TA Ninja; 6 Shadow; 7 AB; 9 Amarant)
    AKA: Use (10 Rikku), Hurl (TA Juggler), Hurl Weapon (TA2 juggler)
    Effect: Allows a character to throw shurikens or other weapons in battle; some games also allow special Elemental balls or scrolls.

Thundaga (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/12/TA/Tactics BM; TA2 BM/Viking; 12RW Kytes; CC MG)
    AKA: Lit3 (1n/4a BM), Bolt3 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX BM; 7 MG), Thinder III (11 BM)
    Effect: Strong lightning-elemental attack. In CC, can cause Paralyzed status.

Thundara (8 GM; 7CC/9/10/X-2/12/TA/Tactics BM; TA2 BM/Viking/Seer; CC MG)
    AKA: Lit2 (1n/4a BM), Bolt2 (1/3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX BM; 7 MG), Thunder II (11 BM)
    Effect: Medium lightning-elemental attack. In CC, can cause Paralyzed status.

Thunder (8 MG; 7CC/9/10/X-2/11/12/TA/Tactics BM; TA2 BM/RM/Viking; 12RW BM/TM/Quetzalcoatl; MQ Wizard; CC MG)
    AKA: Lit (1n BM), Bolt (1 BM; 2 MG; 3/4/5/6/Tactics-PSX BM; 7 MG), Lit1 (4a BM)
    Effect: Weak lightning-elemental attack. In CC can cause Paralyzed status.

Thunder Blade (X-2 Warrior, 7CC AB)
    AKA: Thunder Sword (5/9 SM, 12RW Warmage), Thunderstrike (CC MG)
    Effect: Sword attack with thunder element.

Toad (2 MG; 3 WM; 4/5 BM; 7 MG; TA/TA2 Alchemist;Tactics BM)
    AKA: Frog 9(Tactics-PSX BM)
    Effect: Turn target to/from Frog status

Tornado (4 BM; 7/8 MG)
    AKA: WWind (3 WM; 6 BM), Weak (4a BM), Twister (9/TA BL)
    Effect: Air-elemental attack which leaves targets with single-digit HPs

Ultima (2 MG; 6 BM; 7/8 MG; 9 enemy spell; 7CC/10 BM; X-2 GG; Tactics Squire[Ramza]; Tactics Assassin)
    Effect: Ultimate non-elemental attack on all enemies. In TA/TA2 each species had one Ultima attack. Humans/Gria: Ultima Shot (Hunter); Bangaa: Ultima Sword (Gladiator); Nu Mou: Ultima Blow (Sage); Viera: Ultima Masher (Assassin); Moogle: Ultima Charge (Mog Knight). Seeq in TA2 don't have one.

Vanish (6 DM; 9 BL; 12 AM; TA2 Sniper)
    AKA: Hide (11 Thief), Conceal (TA Sniper)
    Effect: Makes a character disappear. 12 also has Vanishga, which affects the whole party.

Wall (7 MG; 7CC WM; Selphie's Limit in 8; Tactics WM)
    AKA: Barrier (TA Bishop)
    Effect: Raises physical and magical defense

Warp (1n BM; 2 MG; 3/4 BM; 12 TM), Warp1 (1 BM)
    Effect: Warps one or more floors towards the exit of a dungeon. In 12 this warps the *enemies* out of the battle, similar to 7's Remove spell.
    An interesting point: In Tactics, when Loffrey opens the magical door to Murond Death City, the final word in the chant is "Dejeon"; the Japanese name for this magic is "Dejon", which might really mean "De-zone".

Water (10/12 BM; TA/TA2 Bishop/Sage)
    Effect: Weak/medium water attack.

White Wind (5/7/8/9/10 BL; 12 enemy spell; X-2/TA/TA2 BL)
    AKA: Pearl Wind (6 BL)
    Effect: Heals entire party of HP based on caster's current or maximum HP. In 12 it stops status effects from affecting an enemy.

X-Zone (5/6 BM)
    Effect: Instantly kills one or more enemies

Zombie (6 DM; 8 MG; Tactics YY; Tactics Beowulf)
    Effect: Causes target to become Undead
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on September 25, 2009, 06:54:50 pm
The problem with "new" counter abilities is that it's simply too much, getting Counter Tackle for a Single enemies Counter Flare, I'm not too fond of that... If more enemies have specialized counter moves, it wouldn't be a bad idea though, hmm... sort of on the fence about that.
Title:
Post by: Wasabi on September 25, 2009, 07:05:25 pm
I'm more comfortable in having stacked counters/reactions, to be honest, since this is pretty much a tactics game and having counters react in different situations via innates would pose a better defensive for monsters in general. But for bosses, that might be a different story. Reassigning something like Counter Tackle into a spell would be nice, but giving each boss, say, Counter Flare would be a redundancy (with all due respect).

I mean, I can see Counter Magic having better uses here, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 22, 2010, 11:38:52 am
Alright! As before, monster skills are appreciated. Remember that monsters can have equips in Mercenaries and that there is only one family of monsters for whichever monster class it may be. Now Unlike before, each monster can only have three abilities max, with the synergy skillsets taking up a fair amount of skills, I need to be rather conservative on that front.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on August 24, 2010, 09:18:03 am
Three max plus an attack-like move, correct?

Also, am I correct in assuming that all monsters will never be invited (ie, enemy-only) albeit charmable?
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 25, 2010, 01:46:02 pm
That is correct. There may be some missions where you can control a monster, but Invite, needless to say, does not exist for the player.
Title: Re:
Post by: Aensland on August 31, 2010, 09:00:44 am
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Though as for "set weapons" In Mercenaries equipment is Next to Impossible to come across, Steal X, no longer exists. It it always an uphill struggle, in Mercenaries, money is normally fighting against you, [ . . . ]
Aren't mercenaries supposed to be... mercenary? Even uptight moralisers should know FF's stealing skills are not "breaking into somebody's house" type of stealing, they're "taking it from the enemy" stealing (and the enemy is usually bad guys so it's ok :P ).

At least you still let dead enemies drop crystals or chests, right?
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Draivyn on August 31, 2010, 10:55:38 am
I'm not sure about what is possible in a hack, but what about a Counter: Berserk for the minotaur class of monsters. After all in mythology most the minotaur seems rather angry and berserkerish, and maybe some axe dependent skills maybe? Keeping the earth theme that they tend to have. Also considering you want to make equipment rarer so I doubt the player can just stack earth clothes on Ramza and Rad and just steamroll over the new and improved axe wielding maniacs.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 31, 2010, 02:02:33 pm
It's a thematic means, to make each piece of equipment truly seem to be worth its price. Part of Mercenaries theme is the feeling of Never having enough money and scraping by with hardly any thing. Believe me, it deals nothing with Steal itself being immoral.

As for Counter:Berserk... it would have to replace Regenerator. Which is something I'm not ready to separate from the player. I'll likely just end up giving him Fury Up and PA Save.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on August 31, 2010, 02:04:04 pm
Posting this for now, I'll update here shortly.  Stars as for proposed blue mage skills.

Chocobo - These little warkables are fast and mobile, able to pick off weakened units and even cure allies of both HP and MP.
Equips: None
R/S/M: Counter, Ignore Height
Immunities: Don't Move, Slow, Stop
Elements: Neutral to all
Abilities:
Attack - standard PA * PA*Br/100
*Choco Cure - self-aoe 1 at MA*X
Choco Ball - PA * PA/2 damage, evadeable.  4 range, 0 AoE.
Choco Vitalize - single target MP restoration at MA*X.  

Goblin - Grunts of the monster world, specializing in melee-range combat.
Equips:  Hat, Clothing, Shoes, Rings, and Armlets
R/S/M:  ????
Immunities: They have accessories for status immunity.
Elements:  Weak to ice.  Absorb earth.  Half darkness.
Abilities:
Attack
Goblin Punch - Deals damage in HP difference, success = PA+X.  melee range, single target.
*Eye Gouge - Inflicts darkness and confusion at PA+X.  melee range, single target.
Bloodthirst - Drains target of 33% HP, at MA+X.  melee range, single target (think Mutilate, only weaker)

Bomb - Fire-based monsters, able to kamikaze when in peril.  
Equips:  Helmets and Hats
R/S/M: Critical quick, float
Immunities:  Poison, Frog, Petrify, Undead
Elements: absorb fire, half ice, weak water, cancel earth
Abilities:
Attack
Self Destruct - complete with a 100% chance to inflict Addle
*Small Bomb - 3 range, 1 AoE at 2 vert.  MA*X damage, fire elemental.
Ignite - 4 range, 1 AoE at 1 vert.  Faiths*(MA+X) chance to inflict haste.

Panther - 4-legged and fierce with amazing regeneration capabilities.
Equips: None
R/S/M: ???? + Move HP Up
Immunities: Frog, Death Sentence
Elements: Weak earth, half lightning
Abilities:
Attack
Poison Claw - 4 range, success = MA+X (high)
Lick Wounds - 100% Self heal
*Blaster - 2 range, success = MA+X.  Inflicts either stop, petrify, or darkness

Mindflayer - Squid-faced mage types
Equips:  Robes, Staves, Rings, and Cloaks
R/S/M
Immunities:
Elements: Weak lightning, absorb water, ha;f fire+ice.
Abilities:
Attack
Mind Blast - 3 range with 1 aoe + 1 vert.  MA+X chance to inflict either confusion or berserk


Skeleton
Swords, Shields, and even Bec De Corbins, their protective garb is Armor, Armguards and Cloaks

Ghoul
Robes

Flotiball

Juravis

Uribo

Woodman
Rings

Minotaur
Clothes, Armguards, and Armlets

Morbol

Behemoth

Dragon

Hydra
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 31, 2010, 02:30:39 pm
Quote from: "philsov"Posting this for now, I'll update here shortly.  Stars as for proposed blue mage skills.

Chocobo - These little warkables are fast and mobile, able to pick off weakened units and even cure allies of both HP and MP.
Equips: None
R/S/M: Counter, Ignore Height
Immunities: Don't Move, Slow, Stop
Elements: Neutral to all
Abilities:
Attack - standard PA * PA*Br/100
*Choco Cure - self-aoe 1 at MA*X
Choco Ball - PA * PA/2 damage, evadeable.  4 range, 0 AoE.
Choco Vitalize - single target MP restoration at MA*X.  

That seems a bit... generic. It's basically FFT Chocobo with one new move. I'm sure we can think up some other things? What does FFTA2 give us on Chocobo's as well as FFXII?

QuoteGoblin - Grunts of the monster world, specializing in melee-range combat.
Equips:  Hat, Clothing, Shoes, Rings, and Armlets
R/S/M:  ????
Immunities: They have accessories for status immunity.
Elements:  Weak to ice.  Absorb earth.  Half darkness.
Abilities:
Attack
Goblin Punch - Deals damage in HP difference, success = PA+X.  melee range, single target.
*Eye Gouge - Inflicts darkness and confusion at PA+X.  melee range, single target.
Bloodthirst - Drains target of 33% HP, at MA+X.  melee range, single target (think Mutilate, only weaker)

This makes them very similar to their 1.3 selves. Don't misunderstand me, 1.3 Goblin is pretty interesting, but may I ask what was wrong with the rather long distance unit, with Frog Drop and Magic Hammer?

QuoteBomb - Fire-based monsters, able to kamikaze when in peril.  
Equips:  Helmets and Hats
R/S/M: Critical quick, float
Immunities:  Poison, Frog, Petrify, Undead
Elements: absorb fire, half ice, weak water, cancel earth
Abilities:
Attack
Self Destruct - complete with a 100% chance to inflict Addle
*Small Bomb - 3 range, 1 AoE at 2 vert.  MA*X damage, fire elemental.
Ignite - 4 range, 1 AoE at 1 vert.  Faiths*(MA+X) chance to inflict haste.

I say have them cancel Dark as well (made way too many of those weapons...)

Self Destruct is... pretty interesting, I like the Addle addition.
Small Bomb, I'm not so fond of, I think this is another instance when we should look beyond FFT's bindings and see what else Bombs have possessed throughout the ages.

Though I do like Ignite. It acts as a deterrent, a heal, and a possible buff.

QuotePanther - 4-legged and fierce with amazing regeneration capabilities.
Equips: None
R/S/M: ???? + Move HP Up
Immunities: Frog, Death Sentence
Elements: Weak earth, half lightning
Abilities:
Attack
Poison Claw - 4 range, success = MA+X (high)
Lick Wounds - 100% Self heal
*Blaster - 2 range, success = MA+X.  Inflicts either stop, petrify, or darkness

Probably have them half Dark as well. Odd immunities, they work though.
Not sure Lick Wounds works really well, an odd thing to picture. I know FFXII has some interesting abilities for the Couerl's if memory serves me right. Blaster is of course a mainstay, and your version looks good.


QuoteMindflayer - Squid-faced mage types
Equips:  Robes, Staves, Rings, and Cloaks
R/S/M
Immunities:
Elements: Weak lightning, absorb water, ha;f fire+ice.
Abilities:
Attack
Mind Blast - 3 range with 1 aoe + 1 vert.  MA+X chance to inflict either confusion or berserk

Did I... never post my ideas for the monsters that Actually went into that Monster Demo I made long ago?
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: SilvasRuin on August 31, 2010, 03:26:04 pm
FFTA2 Chocobos have a variety of abilities, usually shared with at least one other color.  Choco Cure, Esuna, Meteo, I think there's one for haste, and I know there's one for healing ally MP, sort of like Chakra.  All of these support moves affect the Chocobo and surrounding allies like FFT Choco Cure does.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Draivyn on August 31, 2010, 03:38:29 pm
for the chocobos in a2

Yellow: Has no special unique abilities, simply the standard Choco Cure to heal surrounding units, Choco Beak to attack,    and Choco Barrier to cast Shell and Protect on surrounding units.
Green: Can use Choco Esuna to remove debuffs from surrounding units.
Brown: Can use Choco Guard to boost Defense, Magic Defense, and cast Regen on surrounding units.
Red: Can use Choco Meteor to do damage.
White: Can use Choco Recharge to restore MP to one unit
Black: Can use Choco Flame to attack from a distance
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on August 31, 2010, 04:11:48 pm
QuoteIt's basically FFT Chocobo with one new move.

That's what most of these are >_>.

I'll rework later <3
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on September 02, 2010, 01:33:00 pm
QuoteChoco's seem a bit... generic. It's basically FFT Chocobo with one new move. I'm sure we can think up some other things?

Well it's not like there's much room to work with, either.  I think they need the choco cure ability, and a long-range sniping type ability (either meteor or ball, or something -- chocos are mobile, and these synergize well), which leaves us space for 1 new ability.  I went with MP curing for lack of better options, but using FF12 as an example, I'm pretty sure they had a berserk type ability when another choco died.  But I don't think the AI will ever choose to self-inflict berserk.  But they do make great support units, and the MP curing thing seemed rather fitting (moreso than choco esuna or protect/shell/regen infliction) *shrug*.  There's room for a melee-range attack, maybe?  Chocobop or chocorush or something.  But I do want to avoid melee range straight damage attacks, because that's the whole point of the attack command.

Similarly bombs suffer from the same space dilemma -- they really do need self destruct, and small bomb basically plays the role of a fire AoE that the bomb can use to heal itself, or damage, or both.  Ignite's a fun little twist, and I'm glad you like it, but something like small bomb or spark seems really fitting.

Quotemay I ask what was wrong with the rather long distance unit, with Frog Drop and Magic Hammer?

Frog Drop seems very out of place, but magic hammer seems quite fitting.  I never really see them as long range units, though.  I'd just like to see a monster or two specialize in melee, and goblins seemed like a good candidate.

I'll dig through older FAQs and wikis and see what I can pull up for most of these monsters.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Aensland on September 02, 2010, 09:59:48 pm
Quote from: "LastingDawn"It's a thematic means, to make each piece of equipment truly seem to be worth its price. Part of Mercenaries theme is the feeling of Never having enough money and scraping by with hardly any thing. Believe me, it deals nothing with Steal itself being immoral.
Ah, themes. Okay, I buy that :)

As for monster skills, how about Chocoraise?
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 04, 2010, 02:44:06 pm
Hmm, well monsters should likely get a Raise ability. Though I don't think it works too well with Chocobo's. It might work with another monster type though. Hmm...

Instead of Frog Drop on Goblin, should we give him Phoenix Down (A reference to a gone-item) Or perhaps... we might want to upgrade and change monsters depending on progression in the story (Chapter 1 Goblins, basic abilities, Goblin Punch, (Something?) and Magic Hammer.  Chapter 2 Imp Captains - Goblin Punch, Phoenix Down, Yell (Sp+1), etc.

So probably for the first patch we might want to make monsters pretty basic, with only the higher echelons of monsters (Dragons, Hydra, etc) with truly threatening skills? The way to implement Blue Mage is to keep each skill unique to the "family" that appears through the patches, so the Goblin, Imp Captain, Domovoi, Trickster, for instance, would all keep Goblin Punch.

This should keep monsters, refreshing and scaled patch by patch, I would imagine. But for now, lets stick with what we think for Chapter 1 Monsters.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on September 07, 2010, 01:08:45 pm
scaling... isn't much of an issue, with the exception of straight PA*X or MA*X abilities.  But refreshing?  sure.

QuoteThe way to implement Blue Mage is to keep each skill unique to the "family" that appears through the patches, so the Goblin, Imp Captain, Domovoi, Trickster, for instance, would all keep Goblin Punch.

We can also hold out on some skills until the monsters are at a higher teir, if you'd like.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 07, 2010, 02:42:18 pm
That might be the best way of it. Considering I had planned something similar for Summons (will get to that when some tangible work has been done on that.)

Perhaps 4 skills each patch? Or is that too restricting for the Blue Mage class?
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on September 07, 2010, 02:44:00 pm
I'd rather seen it frontloaded a bit.  Maybe 8 up front and then the rest trickle in at 3-3-2?  Or 10 and then 2-2-2 / 3-2-1?  Meh.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 07, 2010, 02:45:40 pm
That sounds much better for the Blue Mage. Yes, 8 at the start then, still need to finalize what we're going to use though for all of that.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on September 07, 2010, 02:49:53 pm
for the advancing teirs of demons/monsters -- do you want them to keep the same set of elemental abilities, reactions/innates, and status immunities, with the largest changes being to their skill selection and possibly ratcheting up in multipliers?  Or shall they increase in power with additional elemental resistances, more status immunities, and possibly an additional innate X?

imo if we change anything we should add onto (ie, all bombs are absorb fire, but the final tier may half:water) and never really remove stuff from the lower ranks.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 07, 2010, 02:53:44 pm
I think they should increase in power, as the player and NPC's do, with more than just levels. The trouble with monsters is their lack of versatility and their small pools of abilities. Thus I think it is necessary to increase their powers steadily as the patches go on.

EDIT: What you describe is nearly Exactly what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: philsov on September 07, 2010, 03:36:53 pm
request -- can you make rare/good poaching goods impossible to obtain on maps with d2+ water?  I want to have innate slots pretty much maxed out (possibly via multiple reactions, if nothing else), and I don't want to lose an innate slot to "cannot enter water" to avoid the Wet Poaching bug?

Edit:  more succinctly, can you not include monsters that poach for good loot never appear in d2 maps?  

this is:

Barius Valley
Beltha Sluice
Finath River
Obronne - Outside
Thieves Fort
Zigolis Swamp
Zirekile Falls

If this list is too long/restrictive, then the monsters included on that map will either have crap poaches or innate cannot enter water, and if you choose the latter please let me know so I can ration off some slots :)
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 08, 2010, 04:45:34 pm
Did you never find out what I had done with "poaching" all together, Philsov?

Poaching has been turned into Bounty Hunting, with each of the old monster slots turned into unique foes that upon being defeated (with Bounty Hunter equipped or felling them with Gafgarion) will yield a prize that goes to the "Warden's Office" based on a "Ticket" received for the Bounty. I might take out rare poaches all together in this system.

EDIT: Goodness me, I could have sworn I made a topic about this... alas. Here's the main information you might want Philsov.

QuoteNew Addition: Bounty Hunting and the Warden's Office!

Once again with the help of Zodiac, The ability "Poach" has been changed into "Bounty Hunter". This is not just a simple name change. In randoms, sidequests, and sometimes even story missions there will be unique units, with special descriptions. These descriptions read right off of a wanted poster, telling the player the crimes of the Bounty and their strengths, also including the "ticket" one can receive for capturing them. (Not to mention you will likely get a Gil Reward at the end of battle purely for them) If these units are defeated with Bounty Hunter equipped (Gafgarion always has Bounty Hunter innate) their capture will allow you to obtain a "ticket" at the Warden's Office and buy the item reward.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Zozma on September 09, 2010, 04:04:43 pm
I had thought about a skill for my own patch that inflicted doom/haste/quick all at once which would instantly bring afflicted unit's counter to 2, but then again the AI might not like the idea of seeing a buff be cast on its enemy. then i considered also making it add "dont act"

er i mean for the floaty-eye monster thingies
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Draivyn on September 10, 2010, 12:34:51 am
Ahrimans? is there a valid roulette in the game? Its been awhile since I let an ahriman get a turn( I kill them first on general principle)
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 10, 2010, 12:44:32 am
Oh no, there is no "valid" Roulette in Mercenaries. It's just an All Haste or All Slow. A skill of the Gambler's from Rad's side of the skill wheel, if I recall right.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Draivyn on September 10, 2010, 03:28:24 am
According the the gambler thread its Ramza's but thats a bit off-topic. As for the "flotiball" species of monster they have always been kind of lackluster in damage and defense but had the advantage of causing various nasty status ailments(Like junior Marlboros) I could see a blind with a small chance for the death sentence status, or maybe a variation of beowulfs chicken spell(cant recall offhand if oracles get it or not) but that monster is far from Chapter one material. You said you wanted Goblins to be a long range supportish unit if I recall sir LastingDawn so they should have some form of long range(read hp damage) attack say similar to throw stone... and eye gouge is pretty lackluster as an ability. Standard chocobos seem to fulfill a kind of battlefield medic role with their large movement range and no mp cure, so maybe give them some form of buffing abilities... like dragon force of just merely a protect like ability.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 14, 2010, 05:03:08 am
Unless some strange stuff is done with formula modifications, normal skills can only give equal chances to every status that can be inflicted.  You want a small chance of Death Sentence, you have to set it to Randomly cause one of several statuses (including Death Sentence).  You can't have a high chance of one status and a low chance of another status.  Or I suppose you could, but that would take duplicating statuses (like changing Wall into a complete replication of Blind).  I think LD has something planned already for all the statuses, and that would be FAR more trouble than it's worth.
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Zozma on September 16, 2010, 05:08:18 pm
btw you say skeletons can equip swords... i thought they didnt have the arm animations for sword swings
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: SilvasRuin on September 16, 2010, 07:53:21 pm
A special human style sprite has been made for Mercenaries.

The one near the bottom is it, I think:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/sprites.php?p ... perpage=20 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/sprites.php?page=1&spritesperpage=20)
Title: Re: Monster Changes in Mercenaries (Assistance much appreciated)
Post by: Zozma on September 16, 2010, 07:58:47 pm
oh sweet, wait, now that u mention it i recall seeing one submitted