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Always fashionably late to the party.
Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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  • [July 20, 2017, 04:56:40 AM]
Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
« on: July 20, 2017, 04:56:40 AM »
First I'd like to earnestly thank everyone for all the time and care they've put into this community. I've only been here a short time but I'm really beginning to appreciate all the talented people here. Now onto the topic at hand.

I have several (and will likely think of more) questions for those more experienced in designing or their own patches on good game design and balance. Of course anyone who takes the time to put in their two cents is encouraged to do so  :)

1. A balanced magic damage formula
   

2. Counter flood flag assigned to monster skills
   

3. MP regeneration
   

4. Text editing-what happens to the space?
   

I have a few more questions and theories, but those are specific to my individual classes and abilities. I'm pretty sure those should go in a seperate thread (maybe in the projects section?) I suppose I could buckle down and dig around or self test, but all my recent free time has been devoted to learning and trying my hand at spriting. Maybe I'll make a thread with my gradual progress after i have more progress.

Anyway sorry if this is too much to read or incorrectly posted or formatted. And thanks for your assistance, time, and advice! Oh and to those whose ASMs i mentioned sorry I was too lazy to mention your names for proper credit!

EDIT: Just to clarify this is merely a personal project for myself and a few friends.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 12:09:27 AM by Lionheart537 »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Nyzer [Posts: 848]
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    • [July 20, 2017, 06:38:42 PM]
    Some general thoughts.

    Quote
    In general everything will have higher Hp Multipliers, by 10-15%, and most stats will be slightly altered with stat growths varying between jobs.

    Honestly, it's way too easy to get close to 999 damage in FFT as is. Buffing HP wouldn't go as far as nerfing damage output would.

    Quote
    I am wanting to assign certain, hell maybe most, monster skills to counter flood so that when equiped with cf innate the monster will retaliate with something more interesting than a standard attack.

    That's... not how CF works, though. It's set to use one type of attack depending on the terrain you're on, and I'm not sure it can be set to choose from more than one skill per terrain. Even if it could, you'd have goblins casting Flame Attack or something on the correct terrain? Couerls using mindflayer skills? I really don't know what made you think that was a great idea, but it's not. You're way better off setting one or two monster families to have Counter Flood and giving the rest different Reactions such as Bonecrusher, CT Save, etc.

    Quote
    This one is simple. I just want some experienced opinions on whether MP regen is a good game mechanic in Tactics; whether it be natural and innate 5 or 10% from ASM or through the 'Mist' status provided in other ASM.

    I think it is, as long as it's not overdone. Mages really early in the game are nearly useless without a supply of Ethers since they run OOM so quickly. This problem repeats every time they advance to the next spell tier (or they just keep casting the weak version).

    Jot5 includes a lot of ways for players to regain MP, and also makes quite a few non-mage abilities cost MP as well. That balances out the MP issue between physical and caster jobs, makes skillsets like Holy Sword less ridiculously OP, and helps keep abilities more useful than simple Attack commands.

    Quote
    Text editing-what happens to the space?

    I believe there's a limit on the overall text space, and a limit on the space for every individual section. Removing the kanji from everything should usually give you enough space to get creative, but I never dove all that deeply into it. I do know Xif had to change some of the load functionality for some text in Jot5, breaking one section up into several smaller ones that all load separately, to fix an issue we came across.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 20, 2017, 08:04:21 PM]
    Thanks for the reply Nyzer.

    On nerfing damage I didn't realize Tactics was so abusable haha. I'll put some thought and research into whether stats, equipment, or formulas need tweaking the most. Probably a bit of each *sigh*

    Quote
    It's set to use one type of attack depending on the terrain you're on
    Leave it to the damn Geomancer to ruin my plans (my least favorite vanilla job). I absolutely loathe the terrain reference system. Hmm I suppose it would recquire some asm to rework a custom reaction skill then, or just scrap this idea.

    On MP I'm still iffy on physical abilities costing mp. It could make them easier to scale and balance with magic. If most abilities end up costing MP then mp regen would be very welcome. I'll think on this during free time at work tonight.

    I had heard of the term kanji space before. Is it the mysterious Japanese text left about in game? I'll just try to limit text changes to very similar areas then. Thanks for the info!

    I saw Monster Tactics had many creative monster reaction skills, so maybe I'll toss out some vanilla r/s/m I'm not going to use and try those.

    Could anyone shed more insight on Blue Mage/Monster ability animations? How to share them without graphical hiccups (if that is even a concern).

    EDIT: I found this
    Quote
    Most of the animations in MT use 01, 2c, 00 on the animations tab.  This is the spell charging animation.
    So looks like with just some mild testing the blue mage will look fine! Have to give thanks to Emmy for the shared love of monsters.
    « Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 10:02:42 AM by Lionheart537 »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Nyzer [Posts: 848]
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    • [July 20, 2017, 11:17:48 PM]
    Quote
    On MP I'm still iffy on physical abilities costing mp. It could make them easier to scale and balance with magic.

    Have you played the release chapter of Jot5? Even just the first battle can give you an idea of how MP-based physical abilities work out in practice. Spend a bit longer in the game, and, as both Ramza and the Knight job have MP restoration skills, you can see how useful those are as well.

    You might think that making offensive skills have a cost is a nerf, but it's quite the opposite. Because those skills have a cost, they can be useful skills, right out of the gate. None of that Throw Stone or Tackle garbage. Nor do they work like vanilla's Holy Sword skills, which are ridiculously overpowered and completely remove the point of having the character Attack (until they Dual Wield anyway).

    It's kind of like how Metroid Prime 2 made the extra Beams cost ammo, but also made them very powerful. It feels a lot better than the 4-beam set in Prime 1, where you'd pretty much only ever switch out of the top-damage Plasma Beam in order to take advantage of elemental weaknesses. And in order to facilitate that, towards the endgame, Prime would constantly throw enemies at you with immunities to three of the four beams. And I don't just mean bosses. It wasn't any more fun than it sounds.

    Without a cost on the abilities, they either have to be weak/rarely situationally useful/flat out useless, like the entire Squire skillset (and most of the Knight skillset, and to some degree the Monk skillset with how restricted its targeting was), or they end up stupidly OP - like Holy Sword.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 21, 2017, 12:30:19 AM]
    Hmm great points again Nyzer. I see what you mean how having a cost helps in ways beyond the obvious. It can make basic classes more viable for endgame, and no one likes brainless strategies like Lightning stab, lightning stab, lightning stab. It certainly does seem like a better way to balance than limiting nonmagic abilities to be weak or situational. I was meaning to take some closer looks at successful hacks while I play around with spriting. I hope the creators don't mind anyone leeching off their ideas.

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 22, 2017, 02:05:57 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 02:05:57 AM »
    UPDATE: I changed the topic name since I decided to go ahead and post my job ideas for critiquing here.

    Anyway I also spent a few hours earlier today to get into Jot5 for inspiration. Firstly let me say that it's exceptionally well done! The battles are intense wars of attrition maintaining status buffs, hp, and mp. This seems like a great basis to what balance in tactics should look like so I'm glad i started here. I'm also encouraged to see that several ability ideas I had are implemented here, so they're both doable and function well. Damage almost never seems too much or little. I envision many jobs different, yet quite similar. But mechanics-wise I'll be taking lots of notes from here, great stuff! I'm pretty much sold on using MP for most abilities now haha. Didn't get too far (up to fighting Romar (sp?)) so can't say much more and this topic isn't meant for other hacks, no matter how epic they are.

    For now I have another question. I've seen many people claim Blade grasp, sunken state, two swords, hamedo, two hands, and reflexes to be broken or op. I personally think if everything else is balanced these skills are perfectly fine (well two swords does kinda push it). Would you guys recommend keeping, nerfing, or tossing?

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Emmy [Posts: 231]
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    • [July 22, 2017, 02:03:59 PM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #6 on: July 22, 2017, 02:03:59 PM »
    If you've ever seen Monster Tactics, you'd know my answer is to keep as much as possible.  Too many people have the mindset of "nerf everything" as opposed to buffing all the other options to be unique and usable.  One of the major reasons stuff like 2 swords seems OP is there's literally nothing else competing for that slot besides stuff that has the same end effect of doing more damage unconditionally (2 hands, attack up, martial arts, etc), or perhaps stuff like Short Charge for caster units (who would probably be using Math Skill or be switched to the physical tree later in the game).  What else are you going to put there? Equip Axe?  So part of balancing these other abilities is writing relevant abilities to the other slots.  You can look to mine, or learn asm and think of something new.

    Keep in mind too if you keep a lot of the higher end abilities unnerfed (Blade Grasp, MP Switch, etc) and make more good abilities that the rest of the game needs to be balanced in a way to keep things from being mindless.  Another major reason that Blade Grasp was broken in vanilla is that the vast majority of enemies could do nothing about it.  A typical enemy is a job lv 1 Knight or Archer.  If the most threatening ability known by it is Charge +2 or potion, and they have nothing in terms of spells or status effects, the AI has no choice besides rushing forward and attacking or healing itself when it's almost dead.  However, Blade Grasp won't save you against Petrify or Frog, nor will it do anything against magic.

    As for MP, I've balanced it solely on the existence of abilities such as Amplify (+1 aoe on abilities that cost mp/2x MP cost) and Siphon (ability costs no mp for the user, double MP cost's damage done to target), unique formulas such as Ignite (deals damage to both MP and HP equal to MP) and Invert (switches target's current MP and HP, dealing damage/healing accordingly), MP cost trigger reactions, MP Switch, and all the different ways that characters have to heal and damage MP.  Characters at higher levels commonly have hundreds of MP, yet MP management is still relevant. 

    Spell CT is an often overlooked balancing factor for abilities.  I've directly correlated Y values with spell ct's (to where more powerful spells have higher CT), with exceptions given based on things like more powerful procs or larger aoe.  There's no reason why you can't make physical abilities that follow the usual rules of spells (MP cost, CT, reflect/silence flags, etc), yet use PA based formulas and the physical flags (takes p-ev, protect, countergrasp, etc). 
    Nyzer [Posts: 848]
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    • [July 22, 2017, 03:08:17 PM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #7 on: July 22, 2017, 03:08:17 PM »
    If you can write your own RSM abilities or find really interesting ones that work for your patch that others have already made, then yeah, replacing some of the more over- or underpowered skills would be a good way to go.

    As for the nerf everything mindset, I believe that mostly comes around from issues with the 999 damage and HP caps. Which, as far as I've heard, can't be smoothly altered without some sort of issues. Even if there is a fix for that, at that point it just seems to me like it would be way more work than just scaling damage down or doing things like reducing the number of weapons that can be dual wielded - both of which are largely just Patcher changes.

    There are many, many issues lending themselves to the "too easy to one-shot, no reason to use status effects or cast time skills" problem in FFT. Trying to buff everything up to the level of "unstoppable god monster dual wielding two Knight Swords with Blade Grasp, Teleport, and innate Reraise, Protect and Regen" (let alone the insanity that is Math Skill) really just seems like it would go way out of control. I can't see how that would ever work well without some nerfs to at least the top tier.

    Some things definitely need buffs, don't get me wrong. But the nerfs are needed too. Balance cuts both ways.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 23, 2017, 01:24:54 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 01:24:54 AM »
    I agree both nerfs and buffs/complete changes into more useful skills are needed. I definitely want to include those cool vanilla abilities, albeit tweaked. I've noticed most of the hacks to do so have been made, thank you amazing people! I'll try tackling some asm later, but fear the mystifying wizardry that it entails. For now I'm learning spriting, but I'll inevitably try my hand at being Harry Potter at some time.
    Quote
    Another major reason that Blade Grasp was broken in vanilla is that the vast majority of enemies could do nothing about it.
    Drastically lowering jp cost will let ai have more varied and interesting abilities, right? Can ENTD be used to further help this?

    Quote
    Characters at higher levels commonly have hundreds of MP, yet MP management is still relevant.
    Hmm I really must consider high level gameplay, can't just focus on early game. Your method for determining mp cost makes alot of sense to me, I'll keep it in mind, thanks! I was planning on generally lowering ct for spells and making most aoe attacks unable to damage the caster, but still allies. That is partially for a specific job, but also because as funny as it is to make a wizard kill himself it isn't fun on the receiving end.

    So yeah I'm definitely for keeping "op" skills. I'll have a more solid solution after i spend more time focusing on modding,  but here's what I'm thinking so far. I think there are asms for most of these already.
    Blade grasp
    Evasion/Reflexes
    Hamedo
    Two swords
    Two hands
    MP Absorb and MP switch
    Weapon guard

    So besides those rsms I'll go ahead and make this post longer by briefly presenting my job ideas. I'll provide much more indepth info upon request. I seperate jobs into 3 sections or paths: Warrior, Thief, and Mage.

    Warroir Path
    Thief Path
    Mage path
    The others

    This is a long post but thanks for any feedback!

    EDIT: Pride's reaction asm spreadsheet can probably add anything i can't find elsewhere! For reaction skills anyway. The counter tackle custom clone seems especially awesome! A solution to my monster skill counters? Maybe for an individual monster family or two at least. Great stuff!
    « Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 10:04:50 AM by Lionheart537 »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Nyzer [Posts: 848]
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    • [July 23, 2017, 03:41:53 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 03:41:53 AM »
    Lion, while vanilla FFT generally fails to make enemies learn any worthwhile abilities, you can easily rectify that just by increasing learn percentages for skills and enemy job levels in the ENTD.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 23, 2017, 09:46:11 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 09:46:11 AM »
    Good to know. I took a look in the ENTD section but i wasn't too certain on how much individual customization can be done to random units. I will have to take a closer look later.

    To add to my already extensive list another thing on my mind is reorganizing the weapons. I was thinking of turning katanas into Fellswords, but leave the ones Elmdor uses and the associated abilities untouched. I never really understood the point of ninjato, they feel redundant with swords and daggers around. Do they have a solid place or would changing them (both stat and graphics) be reasonable? Also the difference of rod and stave is similar to ninjato and dagger, one basic mage weapon should be enough. Lastly there is cloth; since I'm unsure what to do with dancer's their place in-game is uncertain. I do plan to give instruments to Blue Mages though. That leaves 3 (ninjato, rod, and cloth) weapon groups i'm uncertain about. Would adding new weapons be feasible? A whip weapon class would be cool. I haven't looked into editing the item bin yet but i certainly plan to.

    EDIT: I've decided to keep ninjato and rods but for all intents and purposes they will act as alternate graphics for daggers and staves. Cloths...still up in the air i guess, maybe change into extra books and link the two? Hell i could say they're scrolls and not even worry about editing their graphic image.
    « Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 05:18:37 AM by Lionheart537 »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Emmy [Posts: 231]
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    • [July 23, 2017, 01:54:13 PM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 01:54:13 PM »
    I removed permanent br/fa modification, which goes a long way in preventing the 97/3 armies from taking over.  The reason I did this wasn't purely to nerf the player; but because having a majority of enemies being randomized is much more interesting than having them all start off as 97/3, and because I wanted enemies to be able to use skills that do -br/fa without it being an automatic reset.  This takes care of at least one of your gripes about Blade Grasp.

    I wrote a simple hack to make Counter into the physical equivalent of Counter Magic.  For example, if you Earth Slash this unit, it'll Earth Slash you back. This type of change goes nicely with making physical skills that behave like spells.  It also means that Hamedo and Counter have completely different functions.  The other thing that helps this along is giving the ai worthwhile skills to use.  This ends up indirectly nerfing Hamedo without doing anything to its code.


    2 swords/2 hands multipliers can be toned down.  Remember to do your math in hex if using this hack!


    Weapon Guard I just made innate to everyone (by disabling the slot in a way that is always active) and writing something completely unrelated to that slot.  Most weapons have been given lower evade amounts than they had in vanilla to compensate.  MP Absorb was also rewritten to something completely unrelated on that slot, but keeps the MP cost trigger.  Even with more MP costs/MP management in general, that skill is still meh compared to every other option the player gets.
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 23, 2017, 08:43:03 PM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #12 on: July 23, 2017, 08:43:03 PM »
    Oh thank you Emmy! That's a very flexible hack and the counter change is very cool. On another note i was going to use your movement merge hack to remove silly terrain move skills. But on movement I'm debating whether to have Jump +3 or Ignore Height. Either would go to Dragoon but it's a bit of a debate for me. Thanks again everyonen

    EDIT: I'll probably cut ignore height and keep Jump +3 just for consistency with the move + skills.
    « Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 05:22:39 AM by Lionheart537 »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 27, 2017, 05:27:26 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #13 on: July 27, 2017, 05:27:26 AM »
    Some balance questions on a few specific abilities.

    Break Weapon, Steal Weapon, Crush Weapon. Yea or nea? These are pretty easily abused by the player and make most physical enemies powerless. I feel they are best removed from the player (maybe keep steal weapon for obtaining unique weapons). I'm pretty sure their id slots are coded to those specific skills, so replacing them wouldn't be easy, i think.

    All of the stat affecting skills. Yell and accumulate,  Rend/Ruin power, magic, speed and the songs/dances. I thought i saw a hack that made stat changes gradually reset. If I'm not crazy and that's real and works it could balance enough to allow these formulas/abilities; otherwise, I'm for removing them.

    On a side note I've spent more time with other hacks to get more ideas. MT is hilarious haha. And if this personal vanilla hack does take off pretty well I have a decent name for it, FFT Lionheart Wars or FFT War of the Lionheart(s). My internet alias fits perfectly lol.

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    nitwit [Posts: 210]
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    • [July 28, 2017, 03:10:49 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 03:10:49 AM »
    Some balance questions on a few specific abilities.

    Break Weapon, Steal Weapon, Crush Weapon. Yea or nea? These are pretty easily abused by the player and make most physical enemies powerless. I feel they are best removed from the player (maybe keep steal weapon for obtaining unique weapons). I'm pretty sure their id slots are coded to those specific skills, so replacing them wouldn't be easy, i think.
    Each class should have abilities they can use in lieu of a straight weapon attack.  Knight has breaks, Archer is crippled for the most part, Monk is fine, Thief isn't offensive, Lancer is weakened but still viable if Brave is high, Geomancer/Samurai/Ninja is weaked at melee but can still fight.  Squire is fucked, but it's a Squire - who cares?

    All of the stat affecting skills. Yell and accumulate,  Rend/Ruin power, magic, speed and the songs/dances. I thought i saw a hack that made stat changes gradually reset. If I'm not crazy and that's real and works it could balance enough to allow these formulas/abilities; otherwise, I'm for removing them.
    Change the upper and lower limits on stats.  SP max of 18, min of 4 is acceptable.  You'd have to rebalance the monster ability x/y values and monster PA/MA, but you can do the same for PA and MA.  Max of 32 (Worker 8, who can also use some rebalancing), min of 2 or 3.
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 28, 2017, 06:19:20 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #15 on: July 28, 2017, 06:19:20 AM »
    Quote
    Weapon Guard I just made innate to everyone
    At first when playing hacks that do this i didn't like it (because a chemist with a knife shouldn't block 3 attacks continuously dammit!), but after some time I've come to appreciate the subtle layer it adds as an innate status. Opening that slot and allowing more diversity to all weapons without using your reaction ability slot. Plus since i plan to remove shield evasion in favor of damage reduction, this counter balances that some. So i like it, thanks for the suggestion! Did you also raise Monk's and monster's natural evasion since they won't have weapons?

    Quote
    Each class should have abilities they can use in lieu of a straight weapon attack
    Although most of my jobs will be quite different from vanilla, you're right. They all have a variety of offensive and/or support skills even if they lose primary attack. Several of the damage skills won't even be overly bothered by loss of wp dmg. In light of this they seem fairly balanced, so I'll probably keep them, thanks!

    Quote
    Change the upper and lower limits on stats.
    This is exactly why i decided to openly ask for opinions. Such an obvious solution i overlooked. Sound advice nitwit! You're name isn't very becoming of you lol.

    Time to spew out more thoughts. Should i remove Fa calculations? How big of an impact does it really make? I think at most it's about a 20% difference, right? That's rather noticeable. I ask because while I'm pretty happy with vanilla Faith mechanics it always irks me that my lower Fa units can't get good healing from most magic or are harder to hit with buffs. The extra damage is perfectly fine but reduced healing is annoying. Maybe just remove target's Fa from calculations? Zodiac compatibility is definitely going though,  forget that noise.

    Another inquiry. Golem is mainly a problem because of the way the ai prioritizes it, right? Would making a single target golem ability, perhaps called Martyr, on Knight or Paladin class be doable/ a good idea? Draw the ai's attention to the caster to save an ally? Ai using golem is balanced as is, if having it affect a select area rather than every unit is possible.

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    Nyzer [Posts: 848]
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    • [July 28, 2017, 04:22:59 PM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #16 on: July 28, 2017, 04:22:59 PM »
    Quote
    Break Weapon, Steal Weapon, Crush Weapon. Yea or nea? These are pretty easily abused by the player and make most physical enemies powerless. I feel they are best removed from the player (maybe keep steal weapon for obtaining unique weapons). I'm pretty sure their id slots are coded to those specific skills, so replacing them wouldn't be easy, i think.

    I can't remember if the AI will ever make use of Equip Change. If they do, then spreading EC around to NPCs would at least make weapon-removal count as a decent way to make an enemy lose a turn.

    Otherwise... I don't know about removing them all outright, but certainly taking them away from generic jobs so that you need to field specific units to use it. Maybe make Meliadoul the only weapon breaker, and one of the birds have the steal skill (possibly even only with a Beastmaster's help). The Knight can keep their armor breaking skills.

    Quote
    Should i remove Fa calculations? How big of an impact does it really make? I think at most it's about a 20% difference, right? That's rather noticeable. I ask because while I'm pretty happy with vanilla Faith mechanics it always irks me that my lower Fa units can't get good healing from most magic or are harder to hit with buffs.

    You're thinking in terms of vanilla mechanics where about the only way to get buffs or reliable healing was to use a caster, and so the only benefit of low Fa was to be an anti-magic tank, at a fairly significant cost. There's a lot of room for changing that around when you're modding the jobs.

    Here's a few ideas you might want to think about: Turn the Squire into a buff unit that can only apply their buffs to others. Make some of the Chemist's items apply buffs, instead of there being a million different status cures. Give the Knight some tanky self-buffs like Protect or Regen. Give the Archer some weapon-applied debuffs (such as poisons) and maybe a self Haste or something. Add some range to the Monk's support skills, whether horizontal or vertical, so their shit can actually be used.

    You start doing stuff like that, and suddenly a lower Faith is more balanced, and generally more useful, instead of being super niche in a way that's not going to see quite as much use in practice.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Emmy [Posts: 231]
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    • [July 28, 2017, 04:32:05 PM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #17 on: July 28, 2017, 04:32:05 PM »
    You could take the approach of balancing that MT has, and use entirely custom formulas with a new consistency as to what takes faith and what does not.  The problem with vanilla here is that there's no consistency  - plenty of stuff does "magic-like" effects or takes MA in their formulas with no faith calculation.  Stuff also randomly uses linear or quadratic formulas.  Choose whether you want to use linear or quadratic formulas for everything and stay married to your choice.  This will prevent a lot of balance headaches later.  Also, keep in mind before you remove zodiac compatibility is that having another form of variance in battles is a mostly positive thing - it makes different fights of the same battles different.  You can reduce the amount of difference it makes, and also remove the place where vanilla will calculate compatibility twice in some formulas:


    I don't think what you're thinking of can easily be done, however if you want to make Golem not completely horrid to the ai, you can try Dokurider's hack:

    ALL THE THINGS Official Caretaker.
    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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    • [July 28, 2017, 04:53:35 PM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #18 on: July 28, 2017, 04:53:35 PM »
    I can't remember if the AI will ever make use of Equip Change.
    They don't.  This is why there are no means of destroying Weapons in Journey of the Five aside from an obscure monster ability with no Vertical Tolerance.  Removing those abilities allows you avoid the need to give Maintenance to your bosses and prevent the player from being able to use any of those skills against bosses because of a single ability.
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 125]
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    • [July 29, 2017, 12:39:59 AM]
    Re: Modding and game balance questions/job and ability ideas.
    « Reply #19 on: July 29, 2017, 12:39:59 AM »
    Firstly thanks everyone for all of the responses. This is saving my time from my own trail and error, and more importantly it provides something I'd never get on my own- outside (and more experienced) opinions.

    Quote
    You're thinking in terms of vanilla mechanics where about the only way to get buffs or reliable healing was to use a caster, and so the only benefit of low Fa was to be an anti-magic tank, at a fairly significant cost.
    Great point. I plan to give many classes access to more status effects, so their skills being generally more reliable comes at the cost of smaller aoe or higher MP. I was already implementing this but didn't appeciate the difference.
    Quote
    use entirely custom formulas with a new consistency as to what takes faith and what does not...Stuff also randomly uses linear or quadratic formulas.  Choose whether you want to use linear or quadratic formulas for everything and stay married to your choice
    I really must remember how important formulas are lol. Being more specific with them is a better answer than a full-game change. On formulas i think I'd prefer quadratic for most. Still don't like Zodiac comp though.

    I did in fact see Dokurider's hack; it's what got me reconsidering Golem. Although I'm not a fan of map-wide/all-unit targeting abilities, so if golem can't be used on individuals or small areas it isn't a big deal to toss it from player and generic enemy use.

    To break or not to break weapons, hmm. Having some special enemies with safeguard isn't too big of an issue for me, but i do like the idea of some equipment only obtainable via stealing. I saw a break/steal hack in one of Emmy's xml is it safe and functional? If i could set weapon break/crush to accessory/shield i'd be happy with removing or limiting steal weapon.

    One more question. If Gain jp-up is innate to all, does that give ai more jp for their random skill selection too?

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
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