Final Fantasy Hacktics

The kickstarter is live! Here's the link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/100316459/tethical-an-srpg-engine

Once again, thanks to everyone that helped get it this far.



--

The kickstarter got accepted! I plan to launch it Monday (09/09/2013) at 6:00AM (EDT)!



Thanks to everybody who helped provide feedback in the other thread and helped make this happen. Click the spoiler for a sneak peek.

It's about time.  :)


I guess it's time now to spread the word on the web/game dev sites. Pixel sites as well.

How much do you need to raise and what are the funds going to be for?  Is this so that you can quit your job and work on this full time?  I don't mean that as an insult or a joke.  That's how notch got Minecraft started.

Overall, it's $20,000 I'm trying to raise. Nearly half of that is going towards finishing the control panel application. The control panel application is what already has the map importer/editor, the game mechanic designer, the conversation editor, the targeting function designers, and a bunch of much smaller convenience stuff that makes it so you don't actually have to ever look at the imposing database that helps make it all happen. Another chunk is going into client states (like the unit viewing state that has all the equipping and class changing stuff). Other money is going towards a process that will bake your server-client game that you play over the internet into a standalone game than can be played offline. I have already quit my job since around 6 months ago, but I've spent 66% of the money I'd saved up from that working on this. Should this not work out, I will have to get a job and return to working on this only recreationally.

If you'd like to see the pie graph that breaks down where the money goes, I encourage you to click the button for the "Preview" spoiler in the OP. There's also a spreadsheet that breaks it down even more available here: Kickstarter Estimate XLS (http://darkabstraction.com/kickstarter/Tethical Kickstarter Estimate.xls) (ODS (http://darkabstraction.com/kickstarter/Tethical Kickstarter Estimate.ods)).

I know at times this project can seem underwhelming when viewed from up close. However, in addition to the client and server applications, the project has five important tools: (1) a what-you-see-is-what-you-get sprite animation tool, (2) an image-based font tool that supports any language Unicode does, (3) an intuitive drag-and-drop formula designer, (4) a robust database behind most features, and (5) a control panel application that puts interfaces in-between you, the database, and the client-server file systems. As far as programming goes, I'm the only one responsible for the sprite animation tool, the font tool, the control panel, the formula designer, and designing and documenting the database schema.

More generally, the money is going towards putting it all together into a finished product (which you can get for a modest $10 during the kickstarter). Thanks!

I think what you've done already is superior to what most people can only imagine. Having seen some of the code myself I think it's quite impressive and the type of work that inspires. I hope those who see the kickstarter are able to invest faith in you and your ability. Maybe more importantly... if this does go the way you hope, perhaps you'll pave the way for this genre to prosper (the way square should have over the past 20 years). Pledge is in and I got my fingers crossed for you man.

I also urge those who frequent this board out of interest to support Lirmont in this endeavor with a contribution of any amount!

Yup, ill pledge.  Wishing you luck with this man.  Really sounds like a phenomenal product.  Just curious, are you planning on hiring a team, or will be handling all the coding yourself?

The hour estimate of 1,600 is planned out to be done by me over the following year (ending October 2014), but I may outsource parts to catch up if I start falling behind. Thanks!

Not much I can do in the way of monetary support, but I'll pass your kickstarter link around to the folks I know off of FFH who might be interested. Good luck, lirmont.

Just saw it today. Gotta wait for my next paycheck.

I backed it and mentioned it to some people.

Thanks. I really appreciate everybody spreading the word.

Wow! Looks like I always check back in at the right times.

I have some questions.

What operating systems will be able to use this? Mainly wondering about windows 8, Mac, and Linux compatibility.

Are there going to be updates to the finished programs such as new graphics of maps, characters, items, etc or will we just have to import our own?

With a donation, can we get a beta version to test out?

Thanks!

If your OS can run Panda3d, you can run the actual engine (and therefore games made in it). If you can be more specific about what you want a demo of, I can throw something together for you, but know that there's going to be a lot of installation on your part (one of the things in the kickstarter's estimate is to fund time for tools that'll ease that process). As for the tools, the sprite animation tool and the font tool are both written in Windows forms on .NET 2.0 (.NET 2.0 is old and comes with everything since Windows XP SP3). The control panel relies on a different GUI than Windows forms so that you can run it natively on Linux; Windows' users just need to install a GTK+ runtime. Compared to the other software, the control panel is still pretty much in the alpha phase (since there's been a need to move the filesystem's layout around a bit; there are some things that need to be rewritten on the backend to remove some of the filesize, too).

As far as resources, everything I've made is available, but it's not production quality. There are a bunch of sprites some members of the community have contributed. There is a custom font that has been contributed (though you can easily make your own off of a free base font off the internet using the font tool). I have some music, but it's not themed to fit together too well.

Again, let me know what you want a demo of, and I can put something together (though it may be after I do the Journey of the Five event in Tethical, since I promised I'd do that months ago). Thanks.

I just seeing if there was a beta version so I can get familiar with how it works. I'd like to try to create one event, and compare it with the time it took me to create one just by using the modding tools available on this site.

I watched your video, but I'm the type of person that needs to actually play around with stuff to really learn it.

If there is not one available it's no big deal. I've taken coding classes so I know how much time and effort it takes to create a program, especially something on this scale.

Alright, give me some idea of what you want this event to do, and I can get something together for you with some things already in the right spots (for sprites, sprite formats, music, fonts, etc). Ideally, you'd actually use the server application to get your dialogue out to the client application, but I can set up a file you can use that just uses the client and the Panda3d SDK (which you'll need to install). For events, the rest is programming, but programming animations is a strength of Panda3d (and Tethical can take full advantage of that).

Just a regular battle event like the one in your video. A generic squire and knight is fine. Music and font's can be generic vanilla FFT.

Like is said, if you're short on time don't worry about it.

I want to see if I'm understanding right. When the project is completed, it will be a tool for anyone to create there own sRPG right?

Not just one game, infinitely many games (because, yay, database technology). Truthfully, the engine already can create an sRPG. The work I'm doing is to make it easier for people who have no idea how to program or do data entry, so that they can be allowed to avoid programming altogether until they reach eventing (and the data entry is handled in the control panel).

Like the name says, it's the engine. If you bought a replacement engine for your car, it wouldn't come with the rest of the car (a full game in this allegory). It is the thing that makes everything else have purpose, though. This particular engine takes game-state descriptions as fuel, and produces the desired state-oriented output: intro movie screens, title screens, option screens, login screens, lobby screens, world map screens, etc. If you change the fuel, the engine runs differently (you have a different game). Unlike a physical engine that would need to be manufactured, this one exists in software, and you just have to have a copy to use it. Right now, there's a lot of stuff you have to tweak on your own (without a tool), and that requires a lot of knowledge that you aren't expected to have when you use an automated tool (like the control panel, which puts interfaces in between you and what you're trying to edit). The point of the tools is to make sure you don't need to learn the ins and outs of the really complicated device you're working with just to use it, and that makes it so that you can spend more time working on the parts you want to work on. You are, after all, still responsible for everything that isn't the engine (the rest of the car; the rest of the game).

Cool deal. It's similar in theory to the unreal engine.

Am I correct in saying the control panel is basically to 'guts' to editing right now?

Everything is there to create a game as long as you know what your doing.

Is the control panel an install software?

I don't know anything about the Unreal engine, so I probably can't answer your question. The control panel is just an application that knows how to look up and parse all the files and data used by the games through the engine. You can see screenshots of it running in this thread: http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8157.msg168630#msg168630

For example, the particular post I linked shows that it can read area functions and target functions out of the database, edit them, and use them (attach them to skills). That means that behind the scenes the database actually has places and mechanisms to store all of that stuff, stuff you didn't have to see to edit it properly. You can even give the target functions an arbitrary level, so you could hypothetically choose a more powerful version of the same function given different input (i.e. the character has a much higher intelligence; so, 0 - 20 intelligence might result in the default; 21 - 50 might result in something slightly more powerful; and, 51 - infinity might be the most powerful, but you could always add more).

My friend just got into creating games using the unreal engine. The setup looks similar to the control panel.

Thanks for answering my questions!

I know I had a lot, but I wanted to make sure exactly what I was donating too!  :mrgreen:

No problem. Here's a stripped down version that doesn't include any of the Python applications (except the tests), but it has everything that's necessary to run the demo event as a standalone application.


I am the very model of a...

(http://darkabstraction.com/showOff/ffhackticks/tethical-demoevent.png)

Download: http://darkabstraction.com/showOff/ffhackticks/Tethical-DemoEvent.zip

The file you want to execute with Python (after you install the Panda3d SDK) is at .\master\client\games\snap006\events\TestMap\SquireAndKnight.py. If you don't know how to configure Python 2.x to include Panda3d in its site-packages, Panda3d provides a python shell (search for ppython.exe on Windows) that you can use.

Thanks! I'll try it out today!!!

I tried it. I can not get it to work. Everytime I try to open it the cmd window flashes and disappears. I ran the ppython.exe file, but I really don't know where to go from there.

Python doesn't seem to use the same command prompts as DOS.

Launching ppython.exe alone is not what you want to do. If you put the directory it's in into your PATH environment variable, you could just do: ppython.exe SquireAndKnight.py (from a command-line in the actual folder of the SquireAndKnight.py file).

Otherwise, you'll need to (1) open a regular command-line prompt (cmd.exe), (2) navigate to the directory ppython.exe is in, (3) type ppython.exe, (4) type a space followed by the full path to the SquireAndKnight.py file (so that you have something like: ppython.exe "c:\a\really\long\path\games\snap006\events\MandaliaPlains\SquireAndKnight.py"), and (5) hit enter.

Executing the file with a python installation that doesn't have the Panda3d SDK package in its site-packages is, as you've already witnessed, going to open a window and immediately close (because it will hit an error the first time the script asks for anything related to Panda3d). If you run the file from a command-line in that folder (python SquireAndKnight.py), you'll actually see the error message. You're using the ppython.exe because the good folks who package the Panda3d SDK know it's a drag to configure on Windows (ppython.exe is a Python installation that already includes the Panda3d SDK in its site-packages).

On Windows, you can write a batch file (like SquireAndKnight.bat; that you could just double-click) that looks like the following in order to have an endless loop (so that you can run the event and see what errors/messages happen in the console window; include the full path to ppython.exe if you don't put its path in your PATH environment variable):

:start
ppython.exe "C:\Tethical\master\client\games\snap006\events\MandaliaPlains\SquireAndKnight.py"
pause
goto:start


Thanks.

Got

"[Errno 22] Invalid arguement"

Error

Just pledged and shared on my facebook page asking others to to share even if they don't play rpgs. I'll get my wife to share it because she has a crap load of friends lol.

What's the plan now?

I'm going to send out a survey to the people who pledged to the kickstarter, which will help decide that. It'll cover things like crowdfunding platform, existence of a demo, etc. I have a course of action I'm partial to, but I want to take other opinions into consideration, too. That survey will be out no later than noon eastern time. Thanks!

Just filled out the survey.  Playable demo for certain man.

Here's the biggest thing - if it takes more than roughly 2 minutes to get some running in today's day in age - you're project is probably boned.  The fact that you're having Snap006 run command line prompts to get anything running drastically reduces the pool of available personnel who even understand what you are doing.

Realistically most people won't understand the huge benefit something like this will have.  They want a playable demo they can use and play a Tactics like game in.  Those are the people you want to target with a $10 kickstarter buy in.  The rest of us who are more interested and serious may be willing to spend significantly more (I'd seriously consider dropping 1k, I only pledged $200 for the kickstarter) if it will essentially give us the tools to start creating our own games with your engine/tools.

Thanks for filling out the survey!

As concerns the thing in this thread, he asked for something he could edit. For this, that's ultimately code, and the code for this stuff is in Python which uses the command-line like a debugging console. As far as playing something, the runtime the underlying engine provides runs a file (extension P3D) which can be set up to run like any other game; that's the format any game would be distributed in (that isn't meant to be edited), and the underlying engine provides packaging tools that make an automated installer.

Thanks!

I think a big problem is getting the word out.

No one I know plays RPG's so I really couldn't get no one myself to get aboard. All I could do was post it on my wife and I's facebook.

Also a lot of people love this game but I don't think they know about the community. I didn't know about it til about a few years ago. If more people knew the possibilities that exist with this engine would help.

At the same time, I don't know how else to spread the word besides on social networking. Maybe have a link or modding tutorial on gamefaqs website that directs them to this community so they can discover the possibilities. That's actually how I found out about this because of all the gameshark hacks.

If I had actually been an established member of the RPG Maker community, I would have spread it there, myself. There have been numerous requests for SRPG engines for RPG Maker, and the niche has yet to be filled. You could surely garner support there; I just wouldn't want to outright spam anything.

Also, if you're aiming for versatility, show that versatility off. Have an FE-esque demo, an FFT-esque demo, a Fort-Condor-esque demo, whatever. One map of each showing the myriad of possibilities. Only need enough to get the point across, no need to craft more than that.

Also, it's easier to catch someone's eye immediately if you show them what you can make, and not how you can make it. How you can make it is for the user manual and tutorials, or perhaps if you're pitching to the engineering department of a corporation. For public support, it's better to focus more on 'look at these awesome things you can make' rather than 'look at how you make these awesome things', even if it is a development tool. I realize this is an observation better shared a month ago, and for that, I do apologize, but there is still further opportunity.

Is there any way to donate some more in the future? I missed the boat :\ But I'm very, very interested in seeing this project get off the ground. Thanks in advance!

I haven't gotten around to doing your survey ,my apologies.. but I did want to point this out. I'm sure you're aware of the Shadow Remnants game on kickstarter. They were up for 30 days and pulled $8.6k... and I think part of the reason they did better than Tethical (granted you have a different focus than them) is because of their video. In their video they show some more fireworks in the game (effects, zombies climbing up from the ground, a cool earthquake effect). The main thing is that it makes it look pretty refined. I think getting the engine to the point where you can show a dynamic fight going on (with smooth animations, sounds, effects, artwork) will go a long way towards grabbing peoples attention. The bummer is that most of your work has gone into the architecture of the tools, server communcation, etc. and that's just not the flashy part that people are going to buy into. By comparison, the pure gameplay that you show in the video looks choppy and unrefined. Not to knock you in any way, I know it hasn't been your focus.. I just think more fireworks and refined gameplay may get people's attention better. There are probably tons more game players than game developers.. maybe that's who you should appeal to?

I'll try to get around to the survey and think of any other feedback.

@Toshiko: Yeah, that's something like the plan for the engine demonstration game-ish thing. I will write down the part about just showing the end results rather than the tools that helped make them possible, though.

@kaalitenohira: There's going to be another campaign in the future, but there's a lot of stuff I have to do (and re-do) before starting it. It will likely be one to two months from now. I'm also pretty sure at this point that it will be the last attempt, so please don't miss it if you want to help it succeed. I'll post more planning-related details next Friday when the survey to backers closes out (we're currently at 15 responses out of a possible 38). Thanks!

@choto: You're not alone in that opinion, and that's part of the reason for the engine demonstration element on the survey (when you get to it). Another concern about this is games that would use this engine being non-existent. In other words, that, even if it were to get finished, no one would use it, and that that's a factor of backing (again, pursuant to games rather than the actual project). I'm working on sourcing projects to fix that, as a couple of people have contacted me in the wake of the campaign's failure regarding their projects that could use the engine. I've offered to make something in the engine using each of their input, which I'd ultimately hope to show during the future campaign video. One is a card game with units, and another is a more standard RPG (where they've planned out something in range of 100 - 200 classes); needless to say, they were concerned about feasibility of storing hundreds of classes, and even more concerned about making sure they stay balanced (but that's math, and the formula editor gives you a pretty good starting point for that).

It's not that you wouldn't want to show the tools themselves - it's important to at least make it apparent that the product is a suite of development tools - but that you don't want it to be the primary focus. Think of it more like a television commercial for a line of paint; 22 seconds of various colorful pretty things in diverse settings, 5 seconds of showing how easy it is to apply, finish with brand logo. Just as it's important to show that you're selling paint and not deck furniture, it's important to show that you're selling tools and not the most confused game since Shenmue. The spin is everything. Unless you're selling phamaceuticals, where it's important to be as vague and confusing as possible. But I digress.

My point really falls more in line with Choto's than anything, which seems to be a popular point in and of itself.

For anyone who's interested in seeing the results of the backer survey, head over to kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/100316459/tethical-an-srpg-engine/posts/633778

Thanks.

Interesting read, I like how you are approaching this.

Hey I missed the survey..
but I'll donate even more next round Lirmont.

Hey lirmont, do you have anyone assisting you with Tethical?  I'd volunteer but I have no talent whatsoever.  I'm just wondering if you considered trying to recruit someone in the recruitment thread.

@lijj: Don't worry. I think I got enough data, but go look at that the WotL cutscene shader discussion when you get a chance.

@reinoe: For the tools, it's just me. And, do you mean the Recruitment board? That's for patches to FFT (per the rules). I will post in this board when I get the individual pieces of the field test demo playable. At that point, I hope people help me play-test those pieces (and then later the field test demo as a whole). Thanks!

Hey Scott,
Its Sandy from Rootgamer. I just wanted to let you know that my website and other Linux gaming related sites are running a contest every month for Linux gamers to vote for the best FOSS game and or engine. If voted by Linux gamers you get 1 month of non stop promoting. I want you to know I am adding Tethical to the list. The contest website is www.linuxgameawards.org  (http://www.linuxgameawards.org). If you still have my email let's talk and I will give you all the info. I wanted to tell you in front of everyone as I truly love this engine and the work and love that you and this community have done.

It looks like there is so much work that has been put into this project. I\m not sure what the main goal is however, whether it's to create a set of tools used to make a true srpg emulating fft's greatness, or if the goal is to eventually design and release said game. Either way, I am 100% on board, I have breezed passed the FFH several times throughout the years but did not realise there was a project like this on the go. Being a big fan of FFT (as I'm sure we all are) naturally I am hugely disappointed in the way games have evolved over the years progressing towards eye candy rather than depth of game. As technology advances I had expected deeper plots, more customizing, more classes, game mechanics etc. but it never came. The age of the internet! lol, everything is connected to some massive online multiplayer feature, but not our poor srpg genre, laying helpless in the corner. Sorry to be so dramatic, It just pains me to see that such a great looking project seems to be struggling so much. I will do everything I can to help, posting links on message boards etc. I will check in and make sure not to miss the next pledge drive, we have to show the world there is a market in mmosrpg's. We will not lie down and say "well i guess ill play wow", rawrgh

would love to help out in this, please contact!

~Locke