Original Jot5 Thread

[RavenOfRazgriz]

So I missed last night's post because I had a long day and barely got anything done, and today I did something different - TacText entries!  (I also finished up Classes/Growths/Multipliers/Innates/Skill Concepting for the final boss of Chapter 1!)

I've got the majority of the entries in FFTacText finished, including dismissal quotes, clearer tooltips, skillset/ability descriptions, names, etc etc etc.  Basically everything that isn't Ability Descriptions is pretty close to, if not done.  But all that's boring to talk about, so let's talk about something entertaining - The Five, from a gameplay perspective. 

I put a lot of work to ensure each member of the Five felt like the characters they are in gameplay.  In Ramza's case, this wasn't too hard - take his skillset from the end of Vanilla, and grow from it with new and reimagined skills.  Hence him having a couple skills like Altima - or "Reverse Ultima", Encourage as a buffed version of Accumulate, etc.  The other four, however, were more complex, so I had to tackle them from the bottom-up.

*For those wondering: Bottom-up design is when you design the purpose of something first, then fill in the details, flavor, etc. around that purpose.  In this case, it means I decided on a "role" for each of the remaining Five and built their skillsets and classes out from that purpose.

Dante and Link - I look at these two together because they both really had the same role in their respective canons, and I could only bend that so much.  By that, I mean they're true "Multirole" units, meant to be able to do anything.  To create an appropriate schism between the two, I had to make them multirole in different ways.  The end result I came to was the following:

Dante would be based on his appearance in Devil May Cry 3, where he had four primary Devil Styles, and could choose one before each stage began.  Emulating this into FFT's gameplay means using ARH 1.1 to make each of Dante's 16 skills share 1 of 4 weapon requirement settings.  Each setting would emulate one of Dante's four styles (as would the skills those settings allowed), and emulating choosing before each stage would come in from only being able to arm Dante before heading out into battle.  This is why Link is the only character who can learn Equip Change, partially - because Dante can't have it to fill this role properly.  The other reason only Link gets Equip Change is because Link's multirole potential would come from Equip Change itself!  If you look at Link's Gear options, the only things he cannot use are Guns, Helmets, and Armor, meaning Link can utilize nearly any combo in the game naturally, and can change which combo he's using on-the-fly as needed, all while still getting to use a Support skill.  This is also why his unique R/S/M is the Support skill Adeptness - it's weaker than Attack Boost and Arcane Power, but it fits Link's role of being able to be everything and anything at once.  He can utilize both physical and magical attacks, and boost both at the same time!  (Whirlwind Blade, Fire Arrow, Ice Arrow, Light Arrow, and other MA*WP skills are actually treated as /Magical/ skills, remember.)  This is also why Link's skillset is very "basic" and flexible, but not too powerful.  His emphasis isn't on them, but rather his endless potential with Equip Change as the game progresses.  They're just bonuses.

Cloud, meanwhile, is DPSDPSDPS.  Vanilla emphasized this pretty well, but with one key flaw - Cloud's skills were all spells!  The method of maximizing Cloud's DPS was an Equip Sword Wizard, of all things.  This is the main thing my revisions to him fix - his raw-damage skills (aside from Meteorain) are now based on his PA and WP, and accept Attack Boost, etc.  This also means they scale far better as the game progresses, and their CT is reasonable.  This is Cloud's thing - he does great damage, but you need to manage his CT and figure out which Limit skills are best to use when.  Dante also takes a DPSDPSDPS role (Swordmaster, Gunslinger) to some extent, but his skills are based entirely on his MP reserves instead.  This means that Dante can sub in as a second DPSDPSDPS unit easily, as he should, but that Cloud is better in the long-term at it unless you can feed Dante a constant stream of Ethers or another means of keeping up MP.

This leaves Snake, who is... very fast and very status oriented.  He gets the most turns, and he can make himself impossible for the enemy to detect, with both his Hide skill and Find Cover to bring to other Jobs.  He has high-accuracy Sleep and Dead moves, as well as the ability to Defending or Quick any ally on the map.  In terms of roles, he's probably closest to Ramza - both units being heavily focused on supporting the other three - but Snake is fast and proactive in his support, taking down key threats, letting the others get a key turn to take down a big threat, or giving one of the others a last-pinch Defending to try to keep them alive, whereas Ramza's support is very reactive - healing, revival, status healing, etc.

In short:

Ramza - Support, focused on helping allies reactively, and has a "balanced" set of stats and gear choices as he did in Vanilla.
Dante - Multirole, limited ability pool and MP-restricted but powerful based on Devil Style chosen.
Link - Multirole, very base ability pool, but able to use nearly any combination of gear.
Cloud - DPS, restricted by CT but very powerful.  Even non-physical skills Finishing Touch and Meteorain are all about killing foes.
Snake - Support, focused on helping allies or taking out key threats proactively.

Hope you guys enjoyed today's peek into the gameplay that's soon-to-come!  If there's anything else I can think of that's worth previewing tomorrow, I will.  Otherwise, I'll be finishing TacText and going back to inputting abilities.

[Joseph Strife]

I liked everything you pointed out Raven, your ideas for the five are great, i liked them all, good work.

[Durbs]

Snake's skillset is the one I'm a little iffy on; while his moves do cover one part of him, his stealthy side, they forget another: his heavy weapons side. I think he should at least have a move to throw a grenade and to shoot a missile. I get that the idea was to make him support, but it leaves a void without the moves.

[3lric]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to let everyone know that last night i finished 2 more events for Chapter 1 so we are getting ever closer to releasing the first chapter,
I would also like to apologize about the lack of a "Proper" demo, as the one we did have a while back wasn't very widely released. And it would be simply wrong to release it now
due to the fact that there have been more then a couple changes to better the story and plot. But i won't give anything away.

All in all we would just like to thank you for your patience and let you know that the wait will be well worth it.

-Elric42

[Durbs]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to let everyone know that last night i finished 2 more events for Chapter 1 so we are getting ever closer to releasing the first chapter,
I would also like to apologize about the lack of a "Proper" demo, as the one we did have a while back wasn't very widely released. And it would be simply wrong to release it now
due to the fact that there have been more then a couple changes to better the story and plot. But i won't give anything away.

All in all we would just like to thank you for your patience and let you know that the wait will be well worth it.

-Elric42

Seconded.

[Kagebunji]

And bear in mind that sprites released along with CH1 will be scorching hot! Here thanks go mostly to Twinees, since he is doing a damn hard job, and concepts basiclly every sprite.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Snake's skillset is the one I'm a little iffy on; while his moves do cover one part of him, his stealthy side, they forget another: his heavy weapons side. I think he should at least have a move to throw a grenade and to shoot a missile. I get that the idea was to make him support, but it leaves a void without the moves.

It does, but you can't translate every character perfectly.  Link is missing key tools like his Hookshot, and heavily reliant on the kinds of gear we put into the game.  His "essence" was preserved, but exactly how many directly-Zelda or Zelda-like weapons he has at his disposal is directly based on the weapons included in the game.  (This is why Wands replace Rods and Hammers replace Flails, though.  So not too much should be missing.)  Dante doesn't have 4-5 weapons and a slew of guns he can switch between on-the-fly, or the ability to use statues to switch Devil Styles mid-battle.  Again, the essence of his character was preserved over trying to painstakingly recreate every part of his character.  Cloud, too - just like when he appeared in Vanilla, he can't use Materia or Items innately, so he's not really a direct and whole representation of everything he could do in FFVII - but he's very clearly Cloud.  This is why Snake doesn't have innate Barehanded or a heavy-armament skill - while those are parts of his character, the biggest part of his character is his stealth and ability to drop enemies without a fight, hence why he has Sleeper Hold, Assassinate, and proactively defensive oriented skills along with the innate Invisible.  It's again not a perfect representation of every skill Snake can utilize - but it's very clearly Snake, and honestly, I'd argue he already has the best skillset of the Five with his map-range Quick capabilities. 

It's also a compromise between Snake and the other members of the Five.  If Snake can overstep into their turf a lot, that just makes Snake too "good" and weakens the strengths being emphasized in the other members of the Five.  Using up too many skill-slots on him would also make it harder to implement later bosses, Specials, effects, etc., hence why every class is kept to the skills it needs to do what it does, why Squire has Charge (which doesn't take skill slots since you can't repurpose Charge-slots), etc.   Besides... frag grenades and rocket launchers are finite and precious things due to being in Ivalice, even if he had some, why would Snake use them in every day combat over saving them for a cool cutscene?  :p

I even felt the Tear Gas was kind of pushing it as being a skill, but he needed something good and I couldn't flavor it as being anything else.  I imagine Snake would know how to make backyard-tear gas anyway, whereas Ivalice would make backyard-frags and backyard-rocket launcher rounds much more difficult to pull together.

[Durbs]

It does, but you can't translate every character perfectly.  Link is missing key tools like his Hookshot, and heavily reliant on the kinds of gear we put into the game.  His "essence" was preserved, but exactly how many directly-Zelda or Zelda-like weapons he has at his disposal is directly based on the weapons included in the game.  (This is why Wands replace Rods and Hammers replace Flails, though.  So not too much should be missing.)  Dante doesn't have 4-5 weapons and a slew of guns he can switch between on-the-fly, or the ability to use statues to switch Devil Styles mid-battle.  Again, the essence of his character was preserved over trying to painstakingly recreate every part of his character.  Cloud, too - just like when he appeared in Vanilla, he can't use Materia or Items innately, so he's not really a direct and whole representation of everything he could do in FFVII - but he's very clearly Cloud.  This is why Snake doesn't have innate Barehanded or a heavy-armament skill - while those are parts of his character, the biggest part of his character is his stealth and ability to drop enemies without a fight, hence why he has Sleeper Hold, Assassinate, and proactively defensive oriented skills along with the innate Invisible.  It's again not a perfect representation of every skill Snake can utilize - but it's very clearly Snake, and honestly, I'd argue he already has the best skillset of the Five with his map-range Quick capabilities.  

It's also a compromise between Snake and the other members of the Five.  If Snake can overstep into their turf a lot, that just makes Snake too "good" and weakens the strengths being emphasized in the other members of the Five.  Using up too many skill-slots on him would also make it harder to implement later bosses, Specials, effects, etc., hence why every class is kept to the skills it needs to do what it does, why Squire has Charge (which doesn't take skill slots since you can't repurpose Charge-slots), etc.   Besides... frag grenades and rocket launchers are finite and precious things due to being in Ivalice, even if he had some, why would Snake use them in every day combat over saving them for a cool cutscene?  :p

I even felt the Tear Gas was kind of pushing it as being a skill, but he needed something good and I couldn't flavor it as being anything else.  I imagine Snake would know how to make backyard-tear gas anyway, whereas Ivalice would make backyard-frags and backyard-rocket launcher rounds much more difficult to pull together.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I get the picture.

And bear in mind that sprites released along with CH1 will be scorching hot! Here thanks go mostly to Twinees, since he is doing a damn hard job, and concepts basiclly every sprite.

Heck yes.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

So my day for today was pretty lazy.  I finished up all of FFTacText besides Item Names, Item Descriptions, Ability Descriptions, and spell Quotes, and reoganized some shit in FFTPatcher, along with other shit.  Tomorrow I'll be going back to inputting skills, which should take a day or two at most, then it's just the Spell Quotes and Ability Descriptions and the class-oriented stuff is done.

After that, I can work on the Shops once Elric and I talk about when each Shop update should be, etc.  Woo.

[Taichii]

hoho this sounds great can't wait for another update )
LOL goodluck guys

[3lric]

Thanx Taichii,

I was able to fix (and hopefully complete) 2 more events last night, it would've been 3 (the 3rd being brand new) since i completely wrote out the entire event, I'm just waiting on a map issue to get fixed so it can be tested
and completed.

In the meantime for Today my to-do list is

- Finish Monster Animation videos           DONE
- Finish Monster Animation Lists (rage!!)  DONE
- Revamp 2 of the 4 intros                     1 of 2 finished
- Add/Fix Dialogue/Characters to old pre-wilds
- Finish event I couldn't finish last night (provided that the map issues are worked out today)    DONE

Yup, it's going to be a busy day!

[RavenOfRazgriz]

I'm posting my update early.  Going through and implementing classes today.  I should have every Generic Human class except Animist implemented by the time I get to bed tonight.  Because JP Boost is on Bard/Dancer and your reward/gimme to try and get your unit through the tree it's "supposed" to be on faster, many JP costs on returning classes/skills have been slashed thoroughly, and newer skills are generally being designed with a JP ceiling cost of between 400 and 500.  I have one semi-but-not-really spoiler that you guys can enjoy as your teaser for the day:  

The Job Wheel and JP per Job Level

Job Level 1 - 100 JP
Job Level 2 - 200 JP
Job Level 3 - 400 JP
Job Level 4 - 700 JP
Job Level 5 - 1100 JP
Job Level 6 - 1600 JP
Job Level 7 - 2200 JP
Job Level 8 - 3000 JP

Squire -> No Job Change Conditions.
Guardian -> Level 3 Squire, Level 2 Chemist.
Ranger -> Level 3 Squire, Level 2 Chemist.
Monk -> Level 3 Guardian, Level 2 Ranger.
Rogue -> Level 2 Guardian, Level 3 Ranger.
Geomancer -> Level 4 Monk, Level 3 Rogue.
Dragoon -> Level 3 Monk, Level 4 Rogue.
Samurai -> Level 3 Dragoon, Level 5 Monk, Level 5 Guardian.
Ninja -> Level 3 Geomancer, Level 5 Rogue, Level 5 Ranger.
[FEMALE]Dancer -> Level 5 Geomancer, Level 5 Dragoon.

Chemist -> No Job Change Conditions.
Priest -> Level 2 Squire, Level 3 Chemist.
Wizard -> Level 2 Squire, Level 3 Chemist.
Oracle -> Level 3 Priest, Level 2 Wizard.
Dimensionalist -> Level 2 Priest, Level 3 Wizard.
Animist -> Level 4 Oracle, Level 3 Dimensionalist.
Summoner -> Level 3 Oracle, Level 4 Dimensionalist.
Redguard -> Level 5 Priest, Level 5 Wizard, Level 5 Oracle, Level 5 Dimensionalist.
[MALE]Bard -> Level 5 Animist, Level 5 Summoner.

Mime -> Level 6 All Jobs.

This Job Wheel combined with the lowered JP costs means the AI will actually be bringing in skills, too, so I won't need to do any dumb bullshit to make them competent, for the most part.

[3lric]

Okay, so i didn't finish my "entire" to do list yesterday but I still got a lot done!
Todays to-do list:

- Finish Chocobo Animation List               DONE!
- Do more re-vamp work on all 4 intros     Cloud's Intro Done, Link's Intro fixed up a tad, Dante's Intro 80%

If there's time

- Other misc event and dialogue fixes

[3lric]

Finished Clouds new Intro yesterday and it is fantastic. Dante's should be at 100% tonight as well as some other older events,
Tho I'm not going to make a to-do list today since I can't be exactly sure how long these ones will take me

[Taichii]

Dante's intro is the best XD
i like the whole jumping twisting twirling shooting hacking slash in the air LOL HAHA

[3lric]

Haha, wait til you see the new one once we release a new teaser pretty soon


EDIT: Dante's Intro FINALLY 100% (I think) Moving on to a bunch of other small fixes now.  

EDIT: Well I won't say I was wrong about Dante being 100% but apparently he can make it all the way up to 125%. So it's not quite finished but it will be today 

[Taichii]

YEEEEEY XD
can i see it when it's finished?
dante is AWSM XD

[3lric]

Lol, you will have to wait for the teaser video, since somethings haven't be revealed just yet
And Trust me itll be worth it

[Taichii]

i think everbody's asleep here (lol im in asia so i think all of you are sleeping)
anyway.. while i was up and did some reading here at FFH.. i found myself reading posts at the help forum...
and i think some ofthe questions gave me ideas LOL XD

the main point of this post:

spoiler: sleep early

newbie questions are helpful too :">

anyway.. elric.. if you're going to do a summon boss/enemy boss or anything related to odin XD
i have a suggestion.

name : ODIN
Job : Mythological Warrior

innate: double swords
can equip spears

(idea of FDC, on fftpatcher...check all the spear's "two sword boxes")
so that Odin can equip two spears.. :D

skillset :
-(the strongest lightning magic except ramuh lol.. maybe thunder 4? ) - what it says LOL
-Odin   -odin summon magic
-Armor Pierce -attack that disregards enemy's shield and def.
-Lance strike - lance attack to a straight line
-jump - jump level 8

[3lric]

The idea is good, but at this point we aren't going to be using it the way I thought we would