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Arena battle videos and discussion

Started by PX_Timefordeath, August 04, 2010, 06:49:51 pm

Dol

August 14, 2011, 12:00:35 pm #700 Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 01:59:50 pm by Dol
Bards cant equip Sticks.  Would be nice though  :)


My Thief did have Item.  Changed the match significantly.



(work in progress, watching the 4 hour long Wiz video)

CT5Holy

Damned's Grand Cross Monk was awesome.
Winner of the 1st FFT 1.3 AI Tourney

zxpr0jk

It's CT5Holy night.

Eternal248(Fisticuffs) VS CT5Holy(Do Not Disturb)

CT5Holy(Standstills) VS Eternal248(Longshots)

CT5Holy(Do Not Disturb) VS Zxpr0jk(Toros) *warning: contains considerable wiz spam. If that pisses you off, then you probably aren't going to like this video.

----

Tomorrow I have Heroes vs Dawn Brigade Planned. If anyone wants to request a specific match for their team, I'm in the irc channel most of the day. Come in, pm me, we'll get it arranged. But for now, enjoy. :)

Wiz

First two Matches I predicted correctly except the last one.

I'd agree that Wiznaibus as it currently stands is OP when combined with mimicking that results in 120 damage for each unit or 480 damage across the board. Only two ways that would rid of the threat completely are HP Restore and I'd say possibly Auto Potion as it is atm. Only problem with the latter is that it heals for so little damage that it wouldn't be of great use for anything other than this and even the proposed boost to it for 131 80 HP seems low to me imo. No matter, I'd type up responses to some of the things that have been said directly to me, but prefer to wait and see the results before I make my case that way I've got additional evidence to stand on.


Btw, anyone like the new avatar? ^_^
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

formerdeathcorps

I find it seriously ironic that you find automatic 80 HP healing from a reaction that counters all forms of damage to be low when you think someone dealing hard to block ranged damage for 80-140 to one unit to be OP.  To be honest, Auto Potion right now is fine and boosting it past 70 HP on heal would cause it to verge into OP territory.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

zxpr0jk

I'm going to put this off a day so that someone can have a chance to pm me back. (and for my own time off since it takes the better part of an evening to get everything going)

Sorry for the delay.

Wiz

When did I ever say that "block ranged damage for 80-140 to one unit" was OP? When it came to your monks, I was more ecstatic than anything how much the two of them totaled up 288 damage (144 per Shuriken use) from six panels away. Multi-hitting attacks that hit hard having no CT, nor MP from four panels away with an AOE of one (Geomancy) is my beef.

Geomancy, as I've made my case before with Kiku in S5, is OP because the DPS is absurd considering it commonly hits two people at a time (harder to sandbag than a 271 damage poke from one of Aquilae's Lancers at 70 Br Neutral Compat on both ends since both or more units need to heal each other up) with a ~1/5 chance of a status proc triggering, and at 140 (Squidgy's Squires), hitting two people equals 280 damage from one Elemental user.


1 Turn + 1 User + 1 Target = 140 (1 "~1/5" Chance of procing)
1 Turn + 1 User + 2 Targets = 280 (2 "~1/5" Chances of procing)
1 Turn + 2 Users + 1 Target = 280 (2 "~1/5" Chances of procing)
1 Turn + 2 Users + 2 Targets = 560 (4 "~1/5" Chances of procing)
2 Turns + 1 User + 1 Target =  280 (2 "~1/5" Chances of procing)
2 Turns + 1 User + 2 Targets = 560 (4 "~1/5" Chances of procing)
2 Turns  + 2 Users + 1 Target = 560 (4 "~1/5" Chances of procing)
2 Turns + 2 Users + 2 Targets = 1120 (8 "~1/5" Chances of procing)


Thankfully, my request was granted such that the formula's getting a well deserved nerf for 131.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown


Mando

August 16, 2011, 02:41:52 pm #708 Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 02:42:32 pm by Mando
Yes Wiz, but turtle tactics due to the way brave and fury works in arena is just as bad...

^ New FFAT website made by St4r!

Wiz

August 17, 2011, 07:16:24 am #709 Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 07:21:10 am by Wiz
Get rid of "Always: Protect" and "Always: Shell" on the Persia + Cashmere and replace them with nothing since they'd stomp on the Cherche and Setiemson's toes, which already have those properties initially.

It's not bad, it's a creative means of winning by making matches last a long time exploited most effectively by me, with and without abusing speed save + quickening. The objective is to obtain victory and if I've got to drag out matches to achieve such a goal where I believe I have the highest chances of of doing so, then I'll happily do just that. I do see how stacking 40 Br w/ the Defensive Buffs can get quite a bit annoying and if people are deeply concerned about this becoming an uninteresting manner of succeeding and don't want to see anymore, they can make requests like nerfing AU/MAU to 5/4 from 4/3 and DU/MDU to 1/4 from 1/3 then rid of Unyielding + Overwhelm since they take the best of both worlds, AU/MAU or DU/MDU and slap the two together in one piece making the user more versatile. Ridding Martial Arts from the equation would be nice as well since the constants in the Punch Art Formulas can be altered so it's like as if people seemingly get the impression that already have it as innate, but in actuality, they don't.

Recorded a match yesterday, and will post that up later today fyi.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown



Zaen

August 18, 2011, 12:10:40 am #712 Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 12:14:12 am by Zaen
I'm sorry, Wiz.


But... on that last match, it seems like if it were to keep going, eventually my Oracle and Ninja would be left with the Thief. I really need to re-work that team... maybe with more deadly status effects than I picked... and maybe some damage dealing force. That was just... wow.
"Oh, God!! The Hokuten!!" ~Guard, Sand Rat Cellar

zxpr0jk

Thanks for the uploads, Barren(foriner v bum rushing for me) and Wiz(spoiler).

You're lucky it wasn't me doing the video(not that these are official or even matter). I've already lost patience with stalls and defense teams. Keep in mind, recording those kinds of games are boring for people to watch, and at least twice as bad for the people recording them. Where viewers can skip to the end, we're sitting there for 40 minutes with "nothing" happening. That kind of game drains any desire to record someone else's game extremely quickly. So be considerate of other players, and make teams to bash their heads in.

I'd have declared no winner at that point whether you can rationalize a victory or not. If after 40 minutes, a winner isn't decided, you should both be disqualified/losers for not having a reasonable damage output. Again, you could rationalize that away, but the fact remains the game lasted to the point where it had to be stopped with either no progress, or requiring too many turns. Stuff like this is ridiculous. If I record a stalemate, I'm pretty much done with FFTArena for the day.

As for the match itself... I find it interesting that the thief refused to use quickening. Throw Stone was certainly more a hindrance than a benefit, but I get the feeling she still wouldn't have used Quickening. Odin is too wishy-washy for my tastes often resulting in wasted turns and would prefer my summoner focus on dealing damage, or restorative summons. Silf was used to great effect though so that should be mentioned.

The Archer preferring Don't Move over damage, and the Ninja letting himself get poisoned led to much of the trouble in two maps. The Archer had the damage to kill the knight, as well as move rate I believe, but keeping her stationary was more important. The Ninja getting himself poisoned immediately, and then proceeding to spend half of his turns healing practically made him a self sand-bagging load on the team. His only contribution being a target for the enemy. I'd attribute the second map's sillyness to the Ninja, Walk On/In Water, and Self-Chakra. If it had been a similar map without poison(like mandalia plains), I'd wager a guess that his team would have won. But in this situation, I'd go with my above judgement.

RavenOfRazgriz

Oh... oh god.

This is why my Y U SO DERP team was meant to be based around the Mediator's Death Sentence skill.  Stalemates like that are beyond shitty on everyone's part.  I feel deep sorrow and lamentation for all involved parties.


Dol


Interesting match between you two.  I think that the starting positions should be on the middle section rather than the bottom one on that first map to eliminate how much of a choke point there is.

Wiz

Quote from: zxpr0jk on August 18, 2011, 01:21:43 am
Keep in mind, recording those kinds of games are boring for people to watch, and at least twice as bad for the people recording them..


No not really, I get a joy out of watching teams like that , which slowly but surely wittle away their opponents provided that they win of course :P

QuoteWhere viewers can skip to the end, we're sitting there for 40 minutes with "nothing" happening.


That point's only valid when it comes to Kalas v Zaen due to the infinite loops that they were in. In every other match (where I've participated in almost all of them), something gave and control took over almost instantly for the team that won. In my case with The Speedsters, it was speed accumulation, and for The Non-OP, yet Speedy and Sexy Turtles, it was status.

QuoteThat kind of game drains any desire to record someone else's game extremely quickly.


Not necessarily because a majority of teams as we've seen aren't turtle-based, meaning there's a reason to look forward to something new/innovative and a good chance they won't last a long time for each round.

QuoteSo be considerate of other players, and make teams to bash their heads in.


That would be biased on my end, and prefer the RNG to decide who fights who. If people wanted to make requests for "Exhibition" style matches where they'd choose their opponents, then I'd do that, but that hasn't happened for a long time.

QuoteI'd have declared no winner at that point whether you can rationalize a victory or not. If after 40 minutes, a winner isn't decided, you should both be disqualified/losers for not having a reasonable damage output.


By this criteria, when my "Sexy Turtles" team fought Squidgy "My First Mime" team for ~47 min, we both should've been disqualified/considered losers.

QuoteAgain, you could rationalize that away, but the fact remains the game lasted to the point where it had to be stopped with either no progress, or requiring too many turns. Stuff like this is ridiculous.


Kalas vs Zaen falls under red, all the other matches fall under blue. As long as progress is made in the round regardless of how slow it is/long it takes, it's worthwhile recording/seeing through the end imo. Cases that are in red are ludicrous, but not those in blue. As I've said before, tanking's a perfectly viable strategy to incorporate into your team and goes to show via the results just how effective it can be at winning + sandbagging. If people are concerned about it being too good, bring it down a couple of notches so that it's still a decent option, but not OP at the same time like I listed in the previous post.


Heh, Battle Song Mimicking + Life Song Mimicking + Carve Model Procs going off at the end = clincher for Barren


Pretty powerful Katons being thrown around is a fairly interesting thing to note. Don't recall if it was due to high PA Stacking or Compat or targets though >_>


I'll upload a couple of matches tomorrow, will record them tonight ;)
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

formerdeathcorps


They've been reworked completely, and the overall strategy has been split into two teams.  That was just embarrassing to watch.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.