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Arena battle videos and discussion

Started by PX_Timefordeath, August 04, 2010, 06:49:51 pm

Barren

I can do some matches tonight. If anyone wants me to tonight if not after this weekend pm me. As for Anima Zero I can do one for you right now
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

Anima Zero

Would be nice so I can get some criticism about what seems to work and what doesn't for my team.  Don't have any real preference on what team I fight so pick whomever you want.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..." Zero, Mega Man Zero 4

silentkaster

Thanks CT5Holy for the video!!!

CT5, Asura is evadable. Remember match you recorded and Malroth's chemist evading the heal like almost every time? Regarding this match though, Round 2 was a bit disgusting as far as luck in my favor. I still can't decide if I want to give basic skill instead of talk skill to dual wielding thief, but talk skill did help a couple times here. GG Andante.
You've stepped in puddles less shallow than me.


Anima Zero


Well...that went somewhat better.  I got to see that beautiful Scorpion Tail & Platina Dagger combo go off.  Other than that though...yeah, definitely need to rework a few things.  GG reinoe and thanks for the critiques on my team Barren.  That oughta help me fine tune things better tonight.

  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..." Zero, Mega Man Zero 4

silentkaster

Thanks Barren for the videos!
Well, this was an interesting match. Edge of my seat in Round 2 when Summoner got the Mimic Daravon on three units!!
Anima- Here are just a couple critiques from what I watched.

Summoner- Drop Cyclops and pick up either Carbunkle (for MP restoration since Summoner doesn't have any), Fairy (revival purposes) or Zodiac (Non-Elemental damage). Summon Magic, at least for me, is a very hard skillset to use, but your Summoner was casting Cyclops instead of Odin since Cyclops does more damage. However, Odin procs dead, a much more useful (and non situational) proc than blind. It's really advantageous (not to mention hilarious) when an enemy that absorbs Dark purposely walks into the AOE of Odin and then dies from the dead proc. Also, your Summoner will cast it over Zodiac if you choose Zodiac since she'll still cause more damage since she wears Golden Hairpin, unless enemy absorbs Dark. (I'd personally go with Carbunkle or Fairy anyway, but if you don't want her to be on the defensive, Zodiac would be my third choice).

Archer- Put at front of formation and give him a bow that increases his speed a bit. You have Hawk's Eye on him, but have no elemental damage that Hawk's Eye can take advantage of so giving him an elemental bow will be just fine to increase his speed.

Ninja- I like this unit a lot, actually. But I would drop Kagesougi since you'd (probably) much rather him go for a regular attack (most likely a kill shot if both shots connect) over a Kagesougi which should cause the same amount of damage either way. It won't come up very often, anyway (only when accessory is stolen) but still, Steal Accessory is a common enough skill that it will happen sometimes. I also agree with Barren regarding Dragon Spirit over Auto Potion.

Priest- Move to fourth unit in formation. Also, Barren suggested Short Charge but I know you don't have enough JP for that skill, so if you don't want to sacrifice any of the skills you have, switch Magic Defend Up to Defense UP. She's already magically resistant thanks to White Robe and Flash Hat, so Defense UP will protect her more against Physical Attacks (currently more prevalent in Arena anyway).

This is just some of my advice since you asked for criticism. Good luck in your next match!!!
You've stepped in puddles less shallow than me.

Shintroy

January 04, 2015, 04:43:27 am #3766 Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 05:11:12 am by Shintroy
Big Damage vs Tanky Status Mime team (?)
Tough call. Status usually counters heavily offensive teams, but Holy has the speed advantage without haste. I always bet on speed so I bet on Holy taking this. The actual fight only taking up half the duration of the video helped decide this too. I didn't see the Damned doing the damage to make the match that fast.

Round 1&2 - Destruction. Holy got in and just picked off each unit One by one. The ninja couldn't OHKO, but dealt enough damage to put the Damned on the defensive. Didn't get to see what all the PA and MA saves were for.

Pretty one sided. GG though.


Archers vs Balanced Team
Again, single class teams are streaking so I bet on Reinoe.

Round 1 - Reminds of Otabo's 8 move team. Anima couldn't escape the range and speed of Reinoe. Anima's archer also got destroyed despite having projectile guard. Pretty unlucky.

Round 2 - This was a sloppy round for Anima. Had several opportunities to bring it back, but his units didn't agree with each other. Summoner broke her own 3 unit sleep. If she had fairy she couldve definitely brought it back by picking off units one by one. Won't go further into it though. Silentkaster is on point with his suggestions, especially the ones about the Ninja.

Good stuff though. Looking forward to seeing your team Anima after the changes are made. Good job keeping the streak alive Reinoe. Long live the single (streak)life.


Mime Boosting vs Offensive Twin Team
No point in betting against your own team is there? My team is extremely weak to status and revival as Barren pointed out.

Round 1 - Huge map so I hoped to see some stat boosting at the start. Definitely going to go with Battle Song over Accumulate since Accumulate isn't used during free turns 100% of the time... Maybe its because the squire has kagesougi and needs the MP? Anyway, I git destroyed as soon as FDC got in. Petrified squire. Charmed Thief. Useless Bard. Mike not getting any petrify procs on ANY units. That's how it goes though. Can't depend on geomancy status effects for wins.

Round 2 - Sloppy on my part. Squire ran away the entire round due to having no way to get out of his critical state. The bard just... no. The bard was just awful this round. Too self centered. I could definitely use black costume on my thief. FDC did everything right this time. Also good to see him getting petrify off too.

GG. Finally got to see the downsides of my team. I have lot of changes to do. I also have to change MyMe almost entirely too. I forgot Units won't use quickening if a mime uses MP based skills which my WHM mime definitely has.


Samurai vs Earth/Dark Absorb
Single class teams are.... currently on their... 6th or 7th streak. It'd be crazy to bet against it.

Round 1&2 - Lost to a Themed Samurai team that uses the katana as their only(?) form of offense. Very confusing match. The luck from Thieves guild must have spilled over onto Barren or something lol.

Not much to say that hasn't been said already about Anima's team. GJ keeping this ridiculous streak going Barren. Can anyone stop this streak?


Good stuff Truelight and Barren. I hope I never get 2-0'd by a single class team, even as a single class team. Man I hope quake and tornado get a ct nerf in 140. No reason an MAx9 magic should also be 2CT. Nerf the damage modifier or double the CT.
I mean look at Ultima compared to quake and tornado. No, look at Chiri compared to them. AoE of 2 and elemental. Borderline instant.

Jon probably sent Daniel into retirement with all those takedowns. Put him in his place.

Monkeys always look.
Some day my people will be free.

Barren

Im going to work on my "World of Balance" team a bit more until I get the speed + reflect synergy I need. In the meantime if anyone wants me to do a match tomorrow then please pm me so I can start recording again
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

Barren

For those who PM'd me today I will get the matches started tomorrow and rest assured I'll give my best critiques possible
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

Barren

  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

Anima Zero

Thanks for the videos kind sir.  Definitely need to change up a few things.  I always think Move-MP Up is going to be enough, but prolonged matches definitely put a hamper on that as it has been proven in this video.

Also need to rework that thief team quite a bit.  That didn't pan out quite as well as I hoped, heh.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..." Zero, Mega Man Zero 4

Shintroy

January 07, 2015, 05:04:18 am #3771 Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 10:51:44 am by Shintroy
Anti Tank vs Mime debuff/buff team
The ninja alone can counter a team with weak revival or recovery (wish, pd, revive) so I bet on Anima here.

Round 1 - Match opens with Anima taking a early lead with a slow 2, Odin combo. Silentkaster isn't able to recover mostly due to Anima's constant haste and slow 2s. Battle song when only one unit is benifiting from it, and 52% talk skills made it impossible to recover from for silentkaster. Platina Dagger and W. Bow, and poison won the round for Anima.

Round 2 - Quick round. Not much else to add on why Anima took this round.

GG for Anima. Felt like silentkaster's team had little to no offense capabilities with recovery on only one unit. Since the team boosts PA the mime should've been female to get more out of talk skills. The Paladin was a singing tank meant to buff the mime all the way to MBarrier, but only spent his turns singing due to only having 3 move. Barely had a reason to use anything other than nurse and iron will. The monk and chemist spent most of their turns sandbagging. Id give the mime more accurate talk skills if he's staying male. Death sentence too so he doesn't help units by constantly activating reactions.


Mime wind absorb vs Earth Absorb.
Betting on Reinoe here. His mime team should out tank this team due to darkness and death sentence.

Round 1&2 - Blown out after the monk went down. The time mage wasted too much MP to compete with chivalry+mime making this an easy 2v4 for Reinoe after a few turns.

GG. Old S. Earth could've done more.


Half status, half physical team vs Evasion+Speed team
Should win this easily unless the oracle has petrify. Anima's units shouldn't be able to win on large or mid maps, maybe round 1.

Round 1 - Opens up with my thief charming the star of the team. She isn't revived by the monk for some reason  so there's little to no chance for Anima this round. Mime reaches 16 speed without haste at the end.

Round 2 - Not much to comment on. 19-20 speed mime without haste vs a slowed team. Charm let the team build up too much speed to beat.

Didn't get to see what Anima could do on offense, but as Barren pointed out your team is lacking in MP and overall recovery. I'd give it another shot before changing much. Maybe make another knight sword, berserk unit. The thief doesn't have OHKO potential, so he's more likely to cost your other units too many turns making him a burden. Monk could work better due, but it wouldnt fit since the team is named "The Raging Thief".


Support vs Berserk vs Status team.
Betting on status due to outnumbering Reks.

Round 1 - Classic berserk gunner outcome. Romanda Gun is probably the worst weapon to use on A berserk unit due to having 8 range and shooting straight. At the very least you need to use a 4 ranged gun to minimize the chances he'll run into obstacles. Easy 5v3 for Malroth. No charm needed.

Round 2 - More of a 4v4 on this flat map. Still missed too many shots due to having too much range. Lucky win due to counter flood and sleep.

Round 3 - Blow out. 3v5 again. Not much to comment on.

Boring to watch these 3v1v4 fights. Well built team to support a berserk unit sure. It's just the berserk unit is too likely to screw over his own team. I suggest going with stone gun so the teams sticks together, or an elemental gun + absorb going on so there's no friendly fire. You'd miss out on 108 gems, but berserk damage outclasses it anyway.

This team is also too similar to... small ball or red ball. Maybe it is? Same player? Forgot team names on mobile. 


PA boosting mime team vs unorthodoxed units
Betting on Redworld. Solid team and already beat my PA boosting team (still hurts).

Round 1 - Great opening turns for reks. Plenty of PA and a mimic charm landing. RedWorld tanking like a champ despite being cornerd by spin fist and mimic Kiyomori. Not sure why the mime failed to mimic some songs. RedWorld ultimately takes the round due to Reid having no units to capitalize off of the PA boosting and the ninja sticking to life song. Useless ninja.

Round 2 - RedWorld has the advantage for most of the match. It turns around for Reks once he takes it the Monk and the thief gets back up.

Round 3 - Evenly matched until the ninja starts acting a fool.

GG for RedWorld. Decent Mime team to Reks. Could be a lot better with.a better singing unit. I'd suggest a unit that can benefit from the PA. A Monk, Paladin, or Archer would work well.


Life/DeathThemed team vs Wizards
All on Wizards. Still Streaking.

Round 1 - The Damned couldn't get through Reks' evasion. Really good round.

Round 2 - Destruction up until... the squire refuses to die. Good build for an undead unit or really lucky vs raise 2.

Round 3 - The dream is dead.

Best match of them all surprisingly. Magic evasion came through in the end. Both teams really well built too so nothing to really change. Maybe give the wizard better equipment to match her spells for Reks. Death and S2/H2 with faith mean she could probably get away with hp and MP boosting equipment over MA. Maybe Setiemson Nd pilgrimage with faith rod? Lords + Black Hood? Definitely want to see more of Reks' team soon.

You gonna carry that weight Damned.


Thanks for the match. I'll just accept the team's good as is. Good thing snipe isn't commonly used, because the only thing that can stop that mime is petrify, and maybe status teams.


Running out of ideas for mime teams that have potential. It's been confirmed Mime can mimic while berserked in a recent video. The real question is do all abilities benifit from the berserk damage boost? Salty Rage mimes have a lot of potential on melee based teams since they'd always be in melee range. Lots of potential for crossbow, gun, S/G Cross mimicking, and if summons, draw outs, and other abilities get a damage boost from berserk there's even more potential in the combo.

I'd put a team together if I didn't already have too many teams.
-

Couldn't resist.
Some day my people will be free.

Shintroy

What are Lancers good for? It feels like the class has nothing going it.

Is this the right thread to ask this question?
Some day my people will be free.

Reks

Quote from: Shintroy on January 09, 2015, 11:31:36 am
What are Lancers good for? It feels like the class has nothing going it.

Is this the right thread to ask this question?

Probably not, but I'll answer anyway.

Lancers could be a lot better, but given that they can innately equip armor, have access to spears (easy speed boost) without need of Equip Polearm and their main skill is an unevadable attack that makes them untouchable for the duration...

They can be pretty damn strong. They just seem more linear than other Jobs.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • Discord username: Reks#0128

Otabo

Lancers, I think, are pretty solid as they are. They're tied with Squire, Pally and Archer for third highest PA, and have second best base HP only under Pally and Monk. Granted they don't use a lot of secondaries as well as other classes do, they can be pretty scary units if built properly and/or alongside decent allied units.

A lot of lancers I've personally seen are item-bot lancers (with or without jumps, depending on the team, I guess) and they can be quite effective at times. And yeah, like Reks mentioned, they are one of the only classes that can equip heavy armor innately, making them quite tanky and resistant to statii (depending on many factors, of course).

Straight PA stacked lancers equipped with something like Dragon Whisker (or even Obelisk) can be scary, as well. Base 8 speed meaning 7 CT Jumps, but give it something like Quickening and it's a different story if this unit can manage to use it a few times (and get its MP replenished in some way); eventually means instant jumps + massive damage, if not outright OHKO's on squishier targets. Of course, it all comes down to how the AI uses it.

Or, a more interesting lancer is a straight speed stacked lancer; Javelin + Zephyr Shield + whatever helmet + Genji Armor + Cursed Ring or even Sprint Shoes and you're looking at a lancer whose jumps land in 4 clockticks (correct me if I'm wrong here). If against 8 speed units, most likely instant or near-instant jumps, depending on when the lancer jumps. Granted the damage with this setup isn't anything to write home about, he can put out constant damage (especially if units he's jumping on are slowed or hit with some kind of  status like Don't Move or Sleep or something) and still contribute something to the team. Again, it comes down to how the AI uses it.

Of course, most if not all of us know and have seen what the AI does with Jump, so yeah. That's a whole other discussion, though.

Lancer, IMHO, is one of those classes that you really have to know what you want it to do to make it effective.

Shintroy

I should've tried Lancer out a bit more before asking because I've only ever used the class twice. It feels like a berserk archer does jump's job better without the whole fatal remedy to sleep and charm. I don't know for sure though, because after Otabo's reply I realized I have no idea how to calculate Jump's CT.

I should try Lancer out though since the only build I know of that works is the 12-13 speed item bot.
Does haste and slow effect jump CT?
Some day my people will be free.

Malroth

Lancers are perhaps the best Itembots because of Javelin+Zephyr shield combined with Heavy armour status immunities,  They also excel at almost every other PA or SPD based job with 0 charge time like Punch Art, Chivalry, Steal or snipe,  They can also be a great 2h bruiser with a Holy Lance or a support status melee with a Goku rod or Octagon Rod. Female Lancers also make great high speed support mages/talk skill users that run 100+ HP and +1 speed above a similarly built Time Mage. Jump itself is somewhat Meh unless on a Dancer/Monk/Thief but the Class chassis lends itself to a number of uses.

Otabo

Quote from: Shintroy on January 09, 2015, 05:59:36 pm
I should try Lancer out though since the only build I know of that works is the 12-13 speed item bot.
Does haste and slow effect jump CT?


Basically, Jump is a "charge" skill (unaffected by Short Charge, of course) with a CT formula that goes something like this:

CT = [50 / (Lancer's/Jumper's Speed)]

Haste status isn't taken into consideration as far as the actual jump formula is concerned; hasted jumpers land in the same number of clockticks as a non-hasted jumper with the same speed amount. Same goes for slowed jumpers.

However, since Jump is a "charge" skill, when the jumper is in the air, his/her CT is still increasing; non-hasted jumpers usually land with around 50 CT while hasted jumpers land with around 75 CT. Or something along those lines. Of course, that depends on both the jumper's speed value at the time of jumping and when the jumper actually jumps too, so those values may sometimes be a bit different.

Shintroy

January 10, 2015, 05:06:33 am #3778 Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 05:11:42 am by Shintroy
I'll try Lancer out then. Maybe make a team themed around mediocrity. Ended up liking what other classes could do after giving them a chance. I don't see why I can't give Lancer a shot. I don't know about female Lancer though..

Thanks for the help. I'll definitely start using Lancer. Maybe start with a team themed around mediocrity split between squire and lancer. Does haste also quicken jumps though? No idea if jump CT is based off base SP or not.
-----
Pretty sick Otabo. Makes it seem like a Masamune bot Lancer would be great in a 2v1 scenario. 10-11 speed and haste definitely has something going on.
Some day my people will be free.

Barren

Haste can help lancers get to their turns quicker but the amount of ticks it takes to land the jump is the same. Yes jumps are CT based. Speed factors how many ticks it takes to land the jump. Sometimes haste can be used against you though because if the opponent is about to get a turn soon its likely the lancer will just attack regularly which can sometimes miss. If you really want to land jump, make sure that the opponent is significantly slower than you by either speed advantage, slow, don't move, sleep or stop spells. 
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?