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Mediator
Eternal [Posts: 3065]
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  • [August 31, 2014, 01:25:01 AM]
PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
« on: August 31, 2014, 01:25:01 AM »
PW 2.0 will feature mostly returning jobs from PW 1.0, although heavily rebalanced and modified. I had a ton of new jobs planned, but it just felt right sticking with most of the jobs from PW 1.0, so I've decided to build off of those. In the meantime, I want to outline the basics of the generic jobs you'll see in PW 2.0:

FREELANCER:


ALCHEMIST:


SENTINEL:


SNIPER:


BERSERKER:


DEVOUT:

MAGUS:


PSION:


SEER:


CORSAIR:


SCHOLAR:


NECROMANCER:


GEOMANCER:


HARBINGER:


PERFORMER:


NINJA:


SAGE:


TEMPLAR:


VALKYRIE:


Well, that's all for generic jobs. Any feedback is welcome... I'm mostly posting this here as notes for myself, lol.

EDIT:

Not listed above, the new statuses:

Curse: A unit has all of its buffs dispelled, and cannot be buffed again.

Veil: A unit has all of its debuffs dispelled, and cannot be debuffed again.

Imperil: A unit is weak to all elements.

Gossip: A Gossip'd unit cannot attack, and can only use 1 of 16 random Talk Skills against random units.

Skills that could be used through Gossip:

« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 05:01:07 AM by Eternal »
    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
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  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    --Sky Pirate--
    Vaan [Posts: 171]
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    • [August 31, 2014, 03:18:56 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 03:18:56 AM »
    Doubts:
    1-How will the Bio sapping and poisoning work, is the sapping very weak or is the chance to poison very low? cuz otherwise its very overpowered.
    2-Is all the corsair status inflicting skills 50/50, is there any diferent chance percentages patterns like positive 35/65? does the targets' evasion and the caster's accuracy change any of that?
    3-What would be the 16 Talk Skills be and their chances of happening? (if decided)

    Suggestions
    That ninja skillset sounds nice but as i know ninjas they re more about stealth and backstabbing. Perhaps that ninja skillset should become another class and ninja should be a stealthy class with hide, instant kill skill with low accuracy etc, blinding the enemy, something like Solid Snake from Jot5, but with throw, idk. Also they maybe should have knives too.

    “    One of these days I’ll fly an airship of my own. I’ll be a sky pirate, free to go where I will.    „
       ~ Vaan
    Mediator
    Eternal [Posts: 3065]
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    • [August 31, 2014, 03:26:09 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 03:26:09 AM »
    Doubts:
    1-How will the Bio sapping and poisoning work, is the sapping very weak or is the chance to poison very low? cuz otherwise its very overpowered.
    2-Is all the corsair status inflicting skills 50/50, is there any diferent chance percentages patterns like positive 35/65? does the targets' evasion and the caster's accuracy change any of that?
    3-What would be the 16 Talk Skills be and their chances of happening? (if decided)

    Suggestions
    That ninja skillset sounds nice but as i know ninjas they re more about stealth and backstabbing. Perhaps that ninja skillset should become another class and ninja should be a stealthy class with hide, instant kill skill with low accuracy etc, blinding the enemy, something like Solid Snake from Jot5, but with throw, idk. Also they maybe should have knives too.

    1) Bio will deal 10% damage to an enemy each time it goes off, with a 20% chance of inflicting Poison. It'll go off every 4 CT or so (I have yet to work out the exact numbers for it), whereas Bio II will probably do 20% damage each time it goes off, with a 20% chance of Poison.

    2) Corsair skills will be a flat 50/50 rate. It won't be modified by evasion or accuracy.

    3) It'd likely be 1/16 chance of each Talk Skill. Again, I haven't decided on the exact numbers, but that's what I'm feeling comfortable with.

    4) In regards to Ninja, I wanted to make them different from how others perceive them. I noticed in FFT Arena that every time someone makes a unit with high Move, the unit charges forward, gets surrounded, and dies. I was inspired by that idea and decided to apply it to a job, albeit a job that wouldn't die. Ninja are all about stealth and sabotage, and by being able to easily dodge attacks and counter with mass debuffing, I believe it fits the bill rather nicely. :)

    Throw will be in PW 2.0 as Gil Toss, and a special character will be getting it.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
    • Discord username: eternal248#1817
  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    I miss working on the BMG. Fun times...
    Xander [Posts: 9]
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    • [August 31, 2014, 05:05:38 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 05:05:38 AM »
    Seems legit.

    Grass/Flying
    skiploom188 [Posts: 237]
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    • [August 31, 2014, 10:50:04 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 10:50:04 AM »
    I like the new buffs, sounds fun. I remember back in 1.0 I kept using the Devout. The memories...

    That Corsair job is risky stuff. I'm not the type of person who tries to play with luck, but I can now think of ways to tip odds to my favor. Like using Snake Eyes, I'll make sure all my units cancel poison so I'll be all good :))

    Oh right the Elements are scattered to many jobs. Let me try to remember where they're put with my memory: Fire is with Psion, Holy on Devout, Dark on... Necromancers! and Lightning on Magus I think. The rest I forgot ow sorry.

    • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • ======================================================================
    I evolved... into a stick figure. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj-yTyoVpYIdcdIPw8SP5rw
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pokemon Fantasy Tactics - A treat for FFT fans! http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10984.msg207542
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    Vaan [Posts: 171]
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    • [August 31, 2014, 01:30:50 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 01:30:50 PM »
    I'd say Sentinels would fit that "getting surrounded" strategy best, but i guess high evasion works too. Seems a good idea.
    So the Gossip skills arent decided yet?
    Another thing i forgot, because i was so sleepy as you may remember, as much as Freelancers are supposed to be powerful in the end, i feel that if they had the Fire, Thunder and Blizzard skills they would be a bit too powerful in the beggining maybe? i feel it would be better to have a skill that has the same AoE, without any element, like ultima, but not as strong as if was a "baby version". I know you might say it wouldnt  be strong in the beggining since the low stat growth but i still feel that.

    “    One of these days I’ll fly an airship of my own. I’ll be a sky pirate, free to go where I will.    „
       ~ Vaan
    Mediator
    Eternal [Posts: 3065]
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    • [August 31, 2014, 08:12:52 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 08:12:52 PM »
    Skills that'd be useable via Gossip are listed in the first post now.

    Freelancer skills are as of yet still fairly undecided, so they'll be being played around with a lot between now and release.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
    • Discord username: eternal248#1817
  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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    • [September 02, 2014, 03:04:22 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 03:04:22 PM »
    (It's great to see you working on this again, Eternal.)

    This even if I never got around to playing the original like with most other people's hacks unfortunately. I really need to fix that situation....

    Still, it's always nice to see someone around here getting things done, especially given that I never can seem to do so myself. I'll skip the usual solipsistic pity party though as I've quite a lot of questions to ask and long-winded comments to make as per usual.

    Prepare for trouble. And make it...dry. (This got so long I'm going to have make spoilers for my own paragraphs. Great.)





















    Too long feedback over, I have to say it's a bit weird to realize belatedly that in addition to the usual patch casualties of Charge, Throw and Math Skill, you also completely got rid of Monk, Thief, Mediator, Samurai, Mime and Summoner. Pretty much every other patch on FFH so far has kept some version of at least one of those for generic use, so seeing them all gone already makes this rather different from other patches. Conceptually, things look much more well-defined than the initial version as far as classes and statuses go. That's hardly surprising given the first (umpteenth) draft(s) of anything tends to be mediocre at best.

    *points to own threads*

    Good luck with all this. I'm sure I'll bother you again later after your eyes have recovered from this hideous abuse of them (if they ever do).
    « Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 02:24:25 AM by The Damned »
    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    Mediator
    Eternal [Posts: 3065]
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    • [September 03, 2014, 04:19:17 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #8 on: September 03, 2014, 04:19:17 AM »
    (It's great to see you working on this again, Eternal.)

    This even if I never got around to playing the original like with most other people's hacks unfortunately. I really need to fix that situation....

    Still, it's always nice to see someone around here getting things done, especially given that I never can seem to do so myself. I'll skip the usual solipsistic pity party though as I've quite a lot of questions to ask and long-winded comments to make as per usual.

    Prepare for trouble. And make it...dry. (This got so long I'm going to have make spoilers for my own paragraphs. Great.)





















    Too long feedback over, I have to say it's a bit weird to realize belatedly that in addition to the usual patch casualties of Charge, Throw and Math Skill, you also completely got rid of Monk, Thief, Mediator, Samurai, Mime and Summoner. Pretty much every other patch on FFH so far has kept some version of at least one of those for generic use, so seeing them all gone already makes this rather different from other patches. Conceptually, things look much more well-defined than the initial version as far as classes and statuses go. That's hardly surprising given the first (umpteenth) draft of anything tends to be mediocre at best.

    *points to own threads*

    Good luck with all this. I'm sure I'll bother you again later after your eyes have recovered from this hideous abuse of them (if they ever do).

    FREELANCERS:


    ALCHEMISTS:


    SENTINELS:


    SNIPERS:


    BERSERKERS:


    DEVOUT:


    MAGI:


    PSIONS:


    SEERS:


    CORSAIRS:


    SCHOLARS:


    NECROMANCERS:


    GEOMANCER:


    HARBINGER:


    PERFORMERS:


    NINJA:


    SAGES:


    TEMPLARS/VALKYRIES:


    STATUSES:


    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
    • Discord username: eternal248#1817
  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Selius [Posts: 37]
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    • [September 05, 2014, 04:56:30 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 04:56:30 PM »
    most of these skillsets sound pretty thought out, however i'm gonna reserve my judgment until the stat spread is laid out.

    i'm a min maxer and so i value a job for its growths and how easily i can abuse the skill set of another class :)
    Mediator
    Eternal [Posts: 3065]
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    • [September 05, 2014, 06:57:21 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 06:57:21 PM »
    I'm waiting to see how many people will abuse Sentinels with Ninjutsu secondary. :P

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
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  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Selius [Posts: 37]
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    • [September 06, 2014, 04:31:22 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #11 on: September 06, 2014, 04:31:22 AM »
    Do you have any changes planned for Agrias?

    She's my favorite character.
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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    • [September 06, 2014, 04:35:23 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #12 on: September 06, 2014, 04:35:23 PM »
    (I think I'll avoid using Sentinel with Ninjutsu secondary when [read: if] I get around to playing this just to be contrary. Speaking of being contrary, I'll probably try to use female Harbingers with high magical aspects just to due to your response there regarding Break and Break accessories. Well, that and the vague chess motif. Dark Queen, ahoy!

    Similarly, I'll also probably try to use Corsair a lot despite my luck normally being horrible just because, as utterly terrible a class as it was, I found Gadgeeter a type of masochistic fun.)

    Damn it. I had wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, but obviously my lazy ass didn't get around to doing that. As such, I'll make this a point-by-point reply instead of trying (and likely failing) to be "concise".

    Regardless, I appreciate the quick response given all that I threw at you.



















    « Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 07:43:32 AM by The Damned »
    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    Battle Wizard
    Aiolon [Posts: 126]
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    • [September 07, 2014, 08:09:23 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #13 on: September 07, 2014, 08:09:23 PM »
    Alchemists huh, im worried about this:



    Suggestion for an item:

    Aoe Items (Potions,buff items)

    considering the changes made on how to obtain items i suggest to give them stronger version of Potions and making an AOE effect Potion or skill that makes items aoe it would be awesome but to overpowered i think, specially for items such as Elixirs  :roll:
    Alchemist its a very good class as long as you have the items they need.
    having the items on shop its fantastic but with the changes mentioned starting to think i won't be using them until i unlock fur shop or maybe i misunderstood something.

    Quote
    Do you have any changes planned for Agrias?

    She's my favorite character.



    YES PLEASE! need more Love for Lady Agrias the +Holy Knight+ adding more skills to her awesome skill set, Stasis sword is awesome but she needs more badass skills (grand cross, Holy, random skills idk but if posible make her stronger just not like Orlandu the Chuck Norris of the game)

    • Modding version: PSX
  • Wizzard: And now i have finished my project!
    Chocobo: Wark?
    Wizzard: Hurry up and give it a try!
    Chocobo: Wark...
    ~ Durai Records its now complete ~
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10997.0
    Mediator
    Eternal [Posts: 3065]
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    • [September 07, 2014, 08:35:48 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #14 on: September 07, 2014, 08:35:48 PM »
    (I think I'll avoid using Sentinel with Ninjutsu secondary when [read: if] I get around to playing this just to be contrary. Speaking of being contrary, I'll probably try to use female Harbingers with high magical aspects just to due to your response there regarding Break and Break accessories. Well, that and the vague chess motif. Dark Queen, ahoy!

    Similarly, I'll also probably try to use Corsair a lot despite my luck normally being horrible just because, as utterly terrible a class as it was, I found Gadgeeter a type of masochistic fun.)

    Damn it. I had wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, but obviously my lazy ass didn't get around to doing that. As such, I'll make this a point-by-point reply instead of trying (and likely failing) to be "concise".

    Regardless, I appreciate the quick response given all that I threw at you.




















    FREELANCERS:


    ALCHEMISTS:


    SENTINELS:


    SNIPERS:


    BERSERKERS:


    DEVOUTS:


    PSIONS:


    SEERS:


    CORSAIRS:


    SCHOLARS:


    NECROMANCERS:


    GEOMANCERS:


    PERFORMERS:


    VALKYRIES/TEMPLARS:


    STATUSES:


    @Selius: That topic is also coming in the near future. I'll just say this: Beowulf will be your new favorite. :P

    @Aiolon: AoE items aren't possible at the moment (at least, without heavy ASM), so that won't be happening, and it steps on the toes of other skills. And Poaching, while useful, is far from necessary. The only Alchemist Items that won't be able to be bought are Chocobo Feathers, Elixirs, Malboro Tentacles, and Spider Silks. Phoenix Downs are very expensive, but can be purchased.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
    • Discord username: eternal248#1817
  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Battle Wizard
    Aiolon [Posts: 126]
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    • [September 07, 2014, 08:47:33 PM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #15 on: September 07, 2014, 08:47:33 PM »
    okay i understand the problems of AOE items. kept me wondering why no one did it before guess you just answered that
    and yeah it would have an effect over healing / buffing skills. it would be OP

    and thanks for the answer about exclusive poaching items guess i will have to murder chocobos more often.  :wark:




    • Modding version: PSX
  • Wizzard: And now i have finished my project!
    Chocobo: Wark?
    Wizzard: Hurry up and give it a try!
    Chocobo: Wark...
    ~ Durai Records its now complete ~
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10997.0
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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    • [September 09, 2014, 05:56:00 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #16 on: September 09, 2014, 05:56:00 AM »
    (This response will be concise for once, so I won't use spoilers.)

    With regards to Equip Change/Re-equip: I can't say that I like the idea of it still affecting all equipment, but as long as it still uses up an Act, then that's probably the best thing that can be done to balance it without going overboard. Of course, it's up to you whether you want to ask someone to do the -CT thing (or do it yourself). Alternately, you may decide to use the hack someone made where it uses up Move rather than Act, though I don't know if that was ever tested....

    With regards to Alchemist's Items: Well, it's good to know that those three won't be a problem then. Still not sure how having access to Blind and Poison through Item will affect A.I., but I suppose we'll see.

    With regards to Staves possibly all getting Immune: Berserk: As I said, feel free to use the idea. I'm currently not using it (I think), but even if I was, I'd probably still suggest it since it seems like it would be helpful to prevent what I said I saw as one of the biggest potential problems with Taunt.

    With regards to the mid-charge bonus damage remaining: I'm guessing that means it's still 150% then? Not sure how I feel about oddly, even with "Combat Casting", despite the fact that that is the default damage from vanilla.

    With regards to possible Teleport confusion: The "greater" aspect I was talking about was how the fact that it's a flat 50% failure rate basically means that once you get beyond the point where vanilla Teleport would start giving you failure rates of more than 50%, you've unintentionally improved it. So while, yes, the chances are lower within an extra 1-5 Move range, they are now greater within a +5 Move range unless, of course, I'm still misunderstanding.

    With regards to Scholar's mystery ability: Well, if it's what I still suspect it is, then that's even better to hear really.

    With regards to Octagon Rod in vanilla: I can see why it was designed the way it was in terms of trying to balance it. I just think that said design is stupid and excessive given how little Faith actually matters in vanilla and how it basically undermines pretty much everything Oracle can do in terms of support sans Petrify...when Gokuu Rod already also did that effectively.

    With regards to Imperil, Holy & Dark: Much like my Oil vs. Imperil comment, I didn't mean to communicate that I was discomforted by it. I was merely pointing out the chief difference between it and ARENA's version of Oil. Still, it's good to know that about Demi and other percentage-based abilities.

    With regards to everything else: I see.


    ...What? When I said "concise", I meant "concise for me".
    « Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 07:46:33 AM by The Damned »
    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    Feelie [Posts: 12]
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    • [December 11, 2014, 12:03:26 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #17 on: December 11, 2014, 12:03:26 AM »
    Is the job tree the same for the 2.0 version? When will I be able to play this?
    Mediator
    Eternal [Posts: 3065]
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    • [December 11, 2014, 12:05:36 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #18 on: December 11, 2014, 12:05:36 AM »
    The job tree is going to be shifted around a lot, if only because many jobs play a lot differently now. I'm hoping to have something playable out early next year. I work on PW 2.0 a lot when I'm off of work, but sadly that time has been sparse lately. :(

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
    • Discord username: eternal248#1817
  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Feelie [Posts: 12]
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    • [December 11, 2014, 12:08:23 AM]
    Re: PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)
    « Reply #19 on: December 11, 2014, 12:08:23 AM »
    I see. Well, thank you for the response. Hopefully you find the time to finish this.
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