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Problem Maps and Rearranging Maps

Started by FFMaster, August 26, 2011, 09:00:52 am

FFMaster

List all the problem maps you know and they will be fixed.

I want them in this layout(makes it easier for me)

Map Number
Why it is a problem(blocking, unbalanced map, height difference, etc)
How to fix(change starting positions, map editing, that's about it really =p)

This can also be a good point to start arranging maps in terms of Large/Medium/Small. Maybe we can use S5's base and work from there.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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The Damned

(Ugh. Need to work on stats....)

I'm just going to link to philsov's post from the 1.3 AI Tournament about this since I don't want to comment about this right now--I've a comment on that page in response to what he posted, though.

I'll try to get on later tonight to comment and I'll try to be on IRC later tonight (since I'll be gone tomorrow now), so smack on the back of the head if I haven't posted anything by 7:00 P.M. PST, which is 12 hours from now.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Kokojo

August 26, 2011, 11:24:57 am #2 Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 11:40:50 am by Kokojo
Map 15
http://ffhacktics.com/maps.php?id=15  : At the Gate of Limberry Castle (1) (Map #15)

Why is it a problem:
Unusable : Weird placement, AI goes in 2d water, backing in the corners, stupidity.

How to fix: Upload this into arena + Get new starting positions + Change the size of the map (you will know why)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/eerd42
I keep leaving, I keep coming back. Boomerang boy.

Dol

I'll browse the maps here sometime this weekend (I hope).  One question for you since I dont know a lot about map position changes and such.  Is it possible to change all the 2D water to 1D?  That would solve a lot of AI issues, but if its different from just changing the start places and would be a lot more work, then I wouldnt worry about it.

Kokojo

August 26, 2011, 11:41:13 am #4 Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 11:42:32 am by Kokojo
Quote from: Dol on August 26, 2011, 11:40:37 am
I'll browse the maps here sometime this weekend (I hope).  One question for you since I dont know a lot about map position changes and such.  Is it possible to change all the 2D water to 1D?  That would solve a lot of AI issues, but if its different from just changing the start places and would be a lot more work, then I wouldnt worry about it.


It's actually very easy.

To add more - We(you) should also build one arena map. Completly or mostly symetrical, with most type of terrains on it, with some high and low points, strategic for archers and spellcasters.
I keep leaving, I keep coming back. Boomerang boy.

The Damned

(Oh, look at me. Breaking a promise already. What a twist.)

So, yeah, I just realized between being behind, needing to look at all the maps again (and see what modified starting points they have), being kinda tired, being rather distracted and realizing that Young Justice is finally coming on TV again, I'm not going to get around to this tonight. Hell, I probably won't get around to this until Monday.

That said, I'll try to get on IRC tonight. Emphasis on "try", which isn't official until I obnoxiously make it bold: "That said, I'll try to get on IRC tonight."

However, I haven't posted just to spam (since, hey, my uselessness is fairly evident). I am reminded by something that I forgot to respond to Barren about a couple of weeks ago--sorry about that--when it came to linking to maps: We really need to talk about what qualifies a map as "large" or "small" or "medium" or "crap" to begin with.

I'm more concerned with size before whether it's "crap" or "not crap", but, yeah, we need rather clear-cut definitions of sizes or, at least, to talk about it openly since I'm personally not sure what the conversation over IRC talked about to reach the conclusions it did; similarly, I'm sure quite a few other people aren't aware of that talk as well.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

FFMaster

Removing deep water and replacing it with 1h water is perfectly feasible. In fact, I've already done it for Map 15 (the one which causes the most problems). If people can list the maps with deep water, it would speed things up greatly.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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CT5Holy

Off the top of my head, Finath, Barius Valley, Bethla Sluice for sure. Zigolis might have some D2 water.

Also, Wiz made some adjustments to some of the starting placements for S5, but philsov's post that Damned linked to should suffice.
Winner of the 1st FFT 1.3 AI Tourney

Wiz

Yeah, I payed attention to the ones in list 2 of phil's post and pretty much agreed with everything else excluding list 3 (graphically messed up ones).

Copy/Paste from the 130 Discussion thread ;)

But yeah, at the top of my head (doesn't follow the requested layout, but it shouldn't need to since it's not addressing the given criteria >_>), the Checkerboard 1-3 Maps (117-119) should be considered small, NOT medium. I can't believe I didn't catch onto that XD

Take heed w/ the portion that's in bold below CT5, you're giving me too much credit XP

Quote
Quote from: FFMaster on May 26, 2011, 08:31:55 pm
Can someone list the maps that were changed?
Copy/Paste from the 1.3 AI Tournament S5 Rules Discussion Thread on page 11 (Look at the spoilers)
QuoteOkay, first of all, I have to point out that I did not factor in this rule. Too complicated to do what I just did with it otherwise.

VERY IMPORTANT: Based on map placement:
• Unit #1 will be on highest panel and Unit #4 will stand on lowest panel
IF the panels heights are about the same:
• Unit #1 will be the nearest unit to access a high leveled area.
IF there is no high leveled area:
• Unit #1 will be in front of the others.
Note that I used constantly "Unit #1". But in fact if we'd have 4 units on different heights, for example #1 would be placed on height 7, #2 on height 5, #3 on height 4, and #4 on height 2.

If you wish to change your team order before the tournament, just PM Barren your new order, like: 3 1 2 4 or whatever. It's very simple and quick to change the team order so don't hesitate.


Legend:
* = change in position
Player 1/Yellow Team = My S5 Team in Formation Screen Order (Unit 1/Samurai, Unit 2/Ninja, Unit 3/Lancer, Unit 4/Time Mage)
Player 2/White Team = n00btactic's Team in Formation Screen Order (Unit 1/Lancer, Unit 2/Knight aka Cinnamint, Unit 3/Knight aka Peppermint, Unit 4/Summoner


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes
* Unit 1/Samurai moved to (4,1). In other words, one panel in front of Lancer

* Unit 2/Ninja moved to (5,1). In other words, the panel where the Time Mage is currently standing

   Unit 3/Lancer doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (4,0). In other words, the panel where he's currently standing

   Unit 4/Time Mage doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (5,0). In other words the panel right behind her.

Player 2 Team Changes? No

Overall Picture


Player 1 Team Changes? No (Highlighted Panel is where Time Mage initially started)

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Lancer moved to (2,3). In other words, one panel to the right of the Lancer

*Unit 2/Knight moved to (3,3). In other words, one panel to the left of the Knight

*Unit 3/Knight moved to (3,2). In other words, one panel to the left and one panel forward of the Knight

*Unit 4/Summoner moved to (2,2). In other words, one panel to the right and one panel forward of the Summoner

Overall Picture


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes (Highlighted Panel is where Time Mage initially started)

*Unit 1/Samurai moved to (8,5). In other words, five panels to the right and three panels forward of the Samurai

*Unit 2/Ninja moved to (7 ,5). In other words, three panels to the right and four panels forward of the Ninja

*Unit 3/Lancer moved to (7,4). In other words, two panels to the right and one panel forward of the Lancer

*Unit 4/Time Mage moved to (8,4). In other words, three panels to the right and two panels forward of the Time Mage

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Lancer moved to (3,11). In other words, two panels to the left and two panels forward of the Lancer

Unit 2/Knight doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (3,12). In other words, the panel where he's currently standing

Unit 3/Knight doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (4,12). In other words, the panel where he's currently standing

*Unit 4/Summoner moved to (4,11). In other words, one panel to the right and one panel forward of the Summoner

Overall Picture


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Samurai moved to (2,13). In other words, one panel to the right and two panels behind the Samurai

*Unit 2/Ninja moved to (1,13). In other words, one panel to the right and two panels behind the Ninja

*Unit 3/Lancer moved to (2,14). In other words, one panel to the left and three panels behind the Lancer

*Unit4/Time mage moved to (1,14). In other words, one panel to the right and two panels behind the Time Mage

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Lancer moved to (2,3). In other words, one panel to the left and four panels behind the Lancer

*Unit 2/Knight moved to (1,3). In other words, one panel to the left and four panels behind the Knight

*Unit 3/Knight moved to (2,2). In other words, one panel to the left of the Knight

*Unit 4/Summoner moved to (1,2). In other words, one panel to the left of the Summoner

Overall Picture

Time Mage Initial Position


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Samurai moved to (9,12). In other words, one panel to the left of the Samurai

*Unit 2/Ninja moved to (8,12). In other words, two panels to the left and one forward of the Ninja

*Unit 3/Lancer moved to (9,13). In other words, six panels to the left and one behind the Lancer

*Unit 4/Time Mage moved to (8,13). In other words, six panels to the left and two behind the Time Mage

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
Unit 1/Lancer doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (9,1) In other words the panel where he's currently standing

*Unit 2/Knight moved to (8,1). In other words, one panel to the right and one forward of the Knight

*Unit 3/Knight moved to (9,0). In other words, five panels to the right and one behind the Knight

*Unit 4/Summoner moved to (8,0). In other words, seven panels to the right and one behind the Summoner

Overall Picture

Time Mage Initial Position


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Samurai moved to (8,1). In other words, five panels to the left of the Samurai

*Unit 2/Ninja moved to (8,0). In other words, seven panels to the left of the Ninja

*Unit 3/Lancer moved to (9,1). In other words, seven panels to the left and one behind the Lancer

*Unit 4/Time Mage moved to (9,0). In other words, six panels to the left and two behind the Time Mage

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Lancer moved to (1,9). In other words, five panels to the left and one forward of the Lancer

*Unit 2/Knight moved to (1,8). In other words, two panels to the right and one forward of the Knight

*Unit 3/Knight moved to (0,9). In other words, three panels to the left of the Knight

Unit 4/Summoner doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (0,8). In other words, the panel where she's currently standing

Overall Picture

Time Mage Initial Position


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Samurai moved to (8,8). In other words, three panels to the right and two forward of the Samurai

*Unit 2/Ninja moved to (8,9). In other words, five panels to the right and three forward of the Ninja

*Unit 3/Lancer moved to (9,8). In other words, three panels to the right and two forward of the Lancer

*Unit 4/ Time Mage moved to (9,9). In other words, five panels to the right and one forward of the Time Mage

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Lancer moved to (4,2). In other words, two panels to the right and two panels forward of the Lancer

*Unit 2/Knight moved to (3,2). In other words, one panel to the left of the Knight

Unit 3/Knight doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (4,1). In other words, the panel where he's currently standing.

Unit 4/Summoner doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (3,1). In other words, the panel where she's currently standing.

Overall Picture

Time Mage Initial Position


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Samurai moved to (1,1). In other words, ten panels to the right and one forward of the Samurai

*Unit 2/Ninja moved to (1,0). In other words, seven panels to the right and one forward of the Ninja

*Unit 3/Lancer moved to (0,1). In other words, three panels to the right of the Lancer

*Unit 4/Time Mage moved to (0,0). In other words, two panels to the right and two panels behind the Time Mage

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Lancer moved to (9,0). In other words, eleven panels to the left and one forward of the Lancer

*Unit 2/Knight moved to (9,1). In other words, six panels to the left and one forward of the Knight

*Unit 3/Knight moved to (10,0). In other words, four panels to the left of the Knight

Unit 4/Summoner doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (10,1). In other words, the panel where she's currently standing

Overall Picture

Time Mage Initial Position


Player 1 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Samurai moved to (1,10). In other words, one panel to the left and one forward of the Samurai

Unit 2/Ninja doesn't need to be moved from initial spot (0,10). In other words, the panel where she's currently standing

*Unit 3/Lancer moved to (1,11). In other words, seven panels to the right of the Lancer

*Unit4/Time Mage moved to (0,11). In other words, six panels to the right of the Time Mage

Player 2 Team Changes? Yes
*Unit 1/Lancer moved to (7,1). In other words, five panels to the right and one forward of the Lancer

*Unit 2/Knight moved to (8,1). In other words, five panels to the right and one forward of the Knight

*Unit 3/Knight moved to (7,0). In other words, two panels to the right of the Knight

*Unit 4/Summoner moved to (8,0). In other words, two panels to the right of the Summoner

Overall Picture

Time Mage Initial Position


Silly me, I should've made a video showing the coordinates which would've saved me MANY hours worth of time XD

O well, the deed has been done with those 82 photos.

Edit: Actually, Pride made the changes manually, I just happened to provide the screenshots Phil :P

Looking at all the maps and how they're labeled in size, there's some revisions that should be made for next tourney imo (notably some mediums which could be toned down to smalls).


Out of curiosity, should the changes that I came up with be changed at all do y'all think or are some of them fine as is for those particular maps (maps w/ photos in the quotefest up above)?
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

FFMaster

Hmm... personally, any map which splits the team up I think should go. I'm not sure about others but maps like Gate of Igros (01) can screw up support units like Time Mages quite a lot. It's even worse on ones like END...
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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Dol

August 28, 2011, 01:59:26 pm #10 Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 03:17:58 pm by Dol
Quote from: philsov on April 14, 2011, 12:55:56 pm
Regarding maps!  Cross-posting something from a previous thread:

http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5519.msg125423#msg125423

For anyone wanting a full preview.  There's still a lot of work to be done regarding initial position placement.  Someone can fix many of the disparity situations, but some maps like Limberry Gates are just beyond fixing.  Now, I did like the medium/large/small best two out of three format that was done last season.  When I handled the losers bracket I divvied them up like so:

Med:
1
2
5
7
8
10
12
21
23
37
38
46
48
49
50
52
53
57
58
60
63
64
66
68
74
75
84
86
91
101
102
105
113
116
118
119


Large:
6
25
26
27
28
29
30
34
35
36
39
40
42
44
45
47
50
55
56
59
61
70
72
76
82
85
87
89
90
100
106
108
109
110
112
115
125


Small:
3
4
11
13
14
18
20
62
65
70
73
88
94
96
104
111
117


Beyond Hope/Banned:3 Categories in this one.  Under this proposal we're looking at about 20% of the current map pool removed.

1) Banned because of just overall crappy map (chokepoints, d2 water in the middle) -- not even editting in patcher will save these maps
9
15
19
31
43
83
107
114

2) Banned because of poor unit placement, like units that are permastuck in underground limberry or where one team is divided where the other is clustered.  Likely fixed in patcher.
16
17
22
32
54
67
69
81
95

3) Banned graphically.  They play out perfectly fine, but the targetting and display features are shades of messed up
24
33
41
62
92
97
98
99




I'm assuming team Oracle is team 1 and team Samurai is team 2.  Any map with D2 water changed to D1.
My definition of Small is when someone on team 2 can hit an enemy with a crossbow on the first turn unless there is a lot of horizontal space to move. (obviously can be changed to fit whatever everyone agrees with).


3 (move T1 knight & wizard diagonal from Samurai & Ninja rather than having them that far ahead)
4 (I think T2 might have the advantage from that choke, I can be persuaded otherwise)
7
8
11
13
14 (T1 should have 3 in front with 1 in back like T2)
20
21
23 (move both teams 1 square closer together and 1 square to the south to give more move options on the first turn)
24 (targeting issues if any unit has teleport/fly/ignore height.  might need to be scrapped)
41
51
52 (one team should be moved to one corner inbetween the 2 alcoves with the other team facing them.  They would naturally spread out around the coffin)
53
58
62
67
68
70 (ninja moved 1 right of knight.  samurai moved 1 left of wizard)
92
94
95 (T1 moved in a line facing T2)
96
97
101
104
116


1
2
5
9 (move first T1 knight 2 squares left of the Wizard.  Second T1 knight 1 right of the Oracle.  Move T2 knight & samurai 2 squares left, oracle & ninja 2 squares right.  Would need to be tested to see if it would still suck and needs to be scrapped)
10 (I hate this map.  Could just be me)
12
15 (move both teams to the far right.  Would need to be tested)
16 (move Samurai 2 left of Knight.  Move Ninja 2 right of Wizard)
22
42 (T2 needs to move forward 3? squares so they are up higher.  T1 to the left and back so they are facing across from T1)
46
48
49
50 (borderline Sucky.  T1 should be on top of the church.  T2 should be on top of that little flat section on the church roof (near where the enemy monks spawn in 1.3.  Needs testing)
56
57 (samurai moved 3 right.  ninja moved 2 right.  ditto for the T1 knights)
61
63
64 (the only way this doesnt suck is if both teams are moved all the way to the left)
66
72 (wizard moved right behind knight)
75 (T1 moved to the far right.  T2 Wizard moved 1 left.)
77
81 (everyone on T2 clustered around the Ninja.  T1 moved to the left side of the map opposite T1)
86 (T1 moved up to that middle tier.  T2 moved to form a 2x2 square on the middle tier.  Needs to be tested)
91
98
102
105
111
113


17 (move both teams to 2x2 square formations in middle on the top & bottom edge of the map)
25 (might be medium?)
26
27
28
29
30
32 (i think this one was changed already.  If not, maybe move all of T2 to the far left?)
34
35
37
39 (needs to have some boxes or steps or something at the two pits to keep units from being stuck)
40
44
45
47 (both teams need to be moved to the right so they are centered in the map)
55
59
60
69 (samurai moved to join his team.  Given the choice, id make that little alcove solid where no one could go in there)
71
74
76
78
79
80
85
87
88
89
90
99 (T1 moved to form a line facing T2)
100
106
108
109
125


6 (T2 has the advantage.  The only way to remove that advantage would be to move T2 to the bottom right, which would give T1 an advantage  :| )
19
31 (unless someone wants to hack out the houses on the right side that make up that choke.  Then it would be a small/medium?)
33
36 (too many chokes.  I cant see a good way to balance that out for both teams)
38
43
54
65 (a spellcasting team is at a ginormous advantage)
73 (targeting issues)
82
83
84
93
103
107
110
112
114
115
117
118
119 (117-119 are all water panels in addition to targeting issues)


Thats what I see when I review the pics and recall previous matches.  I'm open to discussion on all of this :)

doriantoki

November 22, 2011, 07:48:55 pm #11 Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 10:11:32 pm by doriantoki
Well, I went through all the maps with the current 1.36b starting position placement and noted the SHORTEST amount of space between the two closest units.  This will obviously change on some maps due to the Jump stat, which I've noted.  I've also listed maps that split the party up in unusual (more than two spaces apart, or impeded by height or obstacles) ways as separate from the rest.  I've organized them into five categories based on the amount of space between the two closest units.  These are small (1-9 spaces), small/moderate (10-12 spaces), moderate 13-18 spaces and large (19+ spaces) and team split maps.  They are also listed from smallest to largest in each separate map category.  The number after the map number is the amount of spaces between two closest units.

Small Maps

map 019 - 3
map 092 - 4
map 104 - 4
map 117 - 4 to attack, > otherwise
map 119 - 4
map 083 - 4 but heavy obstacle/height based map
map 011 - 5
map 031 - 5
map 041 - 5
map 049 - 5
map 066 - 5
map 070 - 5
map 073 - 5
map 086 - 5
map 093 - 5
map 111 - 5
map 001 - 6
map 007 - 6
map 008 - 6
map 013 - 6
map 018 - 6
map 024 - 6
map 062 - 6
map 069 - 6
map 077 - 6
map 096 - 6
map 005 - 7
map 012 -7
map 020 - 7
map 023 - 7
map 043 - 7
map 053 - 7
map 065 - 7
map 094 - 7
map 097 - 7
map 105 - 7
map 113 - 7
map 048 - 7/8
map 067 - 7-9
map 002 - 8
map 003 - 8
map 009 - 8
map 014 - 8
map 022 - 8
map 025 - 8
map 032 - 8
map 051 - 8
map 058 - 8
map 064 - 8
map 072 - 8
map 088 - 8
map 091 - 8
map 118 - 8
map 016 - 9
map 021 - 9
map 029 - 9
map 036 - 9
map 046 - 9
map 063 - 9
map 075 - 9
map 080 - 9
map 101 - 9
map 102 - 9

Small/Moderate Maps

map 004 - 10
map 035 - 10
map 038 - 10
map 061 - 10
map 068 - 10
map 098 - 10
map 103 - 10
map 028 - 11
map 037 - 11
map 040 - 11
map 055 - 11
map 056 - 11
map 060 - 11
map 082 - 11
map 084 - 11
map 087 - 11
map 089 - 11
map 090 - 11
map 095 - 11
map 006 - 12
map 017 - 12
map 027 - 12
map 034 - 12
map 044 - 12
map 045 - 12
map 054 - 12
map 071 - 12
map 079 - 12
map 115 - 12

Moderate Maps

map 009 - 13
map 010 - 13
map 074 - 13
map 100 - 13
map 042 - 13 height restriction, 14 w/o
map 059  -14
map 125 - 14
map 026 - 15
map 030  -15
map 078 - 15
map 099 - 15
map 108 - 15
map 047 - 16 height restriction, 12 w/o
map 076 - 16
map 085 - 17
map 109 - 17 with 5 jump, so realistically, more
map 050 - 18

Large Maps

map 110 - >20 with low jump, with more jump, varies considerably
map 015 - 6 with ignore height otherwise ~19
map 106 - ~20
map 033 - 20
map 039 - 20
map 112 - 29

Team Split Maps

map 114 - 1
map 116 - 5
map 052 - 8
map 107 - 8
map 057 - 9
map 081 - 9

Some observations.  In truth, very few actual large maps.  Very many small and small/moderate maps.  I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating the Small/Moderate category.  They don't really serve much purpose.  They're like small+ maps at the moment, unless the unit starting positions are changed.  I see bouts going small/large or large/small, then a moderate for the final round, if it comes to that.  The small/moderate maps don't really fit in there nicely, and I've seen complaints about them.  I think I have already, but I will again stress the fact these are based on unit starting positions, and the spaces between the two closest units.  Some maps look deceptively large, where it might take the units one turn to hit each other.  This is actually the case with most of the maps, either via mobility, or ranged attack or spell.  In reality, most teams will collide either the first or second round with some sort of attack, be it magical or otherwise.  The only exception to this seems to be the 20+ maps.

RavenOfRazgriz

The entire 9-13 segment should probably be defined as the Medium Map, with everything 14+ or 15+ being dedicated to the Large Map, or similar.  The Small/Moderate category looks very much like the "We don't fuckin' know where it goes" category, since there really should only be 3 map sizes (Small/Medium/Large), with matches being played on a Small/Large/Medium or Large/Medium/Small rotation.  Obviously, this still leaves us with only a small number of Large Maps - but that's OK really, as long as they're maps that don't present huge advantages to specific teams/ (Zeklaus Desert, for example, is as far as a Large Map can get, considering it's only slightly jagged, the Geomancy isn't super-OP, there's no real height advantage to be had, etc.)

There's also the fact that some of the maps in each category are probably still unfit to be used for one team having a huge advantage over the other for one reason or another, which would further trim these categories down.  (The "Crap Maps" of the list I linked you to before, assuming you included them in these observations here.)  I'd also say any "Team Split Maps" should automatically be added to the Crap Maps pile if they're not already or have their starting positions changed to be not-team-split, since splitting teams provides huge, specific, and mostly unfair advantages to specific team builds, and that's kind of really dumb.

This is good information to have, though, since it gives a better approximation of each map's size in-play.  Since this only accounts for closest unit to closest unit, there's still likely some discrepancy for how long it takes the entire teams to clash (see: a map where all four units are in a line and able to run forward v a more cross-like starting formation with lots of rough terrain), but this is still accurate enough and having that kind of variance in the map categories is fine to me.

FFMaster

Here are some new things people can talk about now. Since I can now edit maps, and look kind of decent, map balancing has been opened up and can be very easy to do now. However, this does not mean "omg completely remake map X" suggestions will be tolerated. I've seen the amount of work Kokojo put in for his custom map, and I think Arena doesn't need anything like that. I will be the final decider on what suggestions go through, based on popularity and the amount of work needed. I certainly do not want to pick up a project like flattening Dorter II again.

So, here are the rules for suggestions. Firstly, a screenshot of the problem in question will be VERY helpful. If you can locate the exact X/Y on the map (http://ffhacktics.com/maps.php) that will help even more. On the screenshot, please circle the location you want edited. If it looks unclear, you can use another screenshot from a different angle to help and 2 screenshots will be enough.

Others can critique and agree/disagree on the changes as they wish. If it gets too... violent... I guess I will have to add more ground rules. But everyone knows how much I hate doing that =p

One final thing. There is no way to save some maps, like the tiny 4x4 maps, so don't bother making suggestions on those. Don't bother with maps 117+ either. Incomplete maps I think I might be able to fix... no promises though. IIRC, they are just targeting issues?
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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