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Toshiko
Angel (Empress) [Posts: 1231]
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  • にゃにゃめにゃにゃじゅうにゃにゃどのにゃらびでにゃくにゃくいにゃにゃくにゃにゃはんにゃにゃだいにゃんにゃくにゃらべてにゃがにゃがめ
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  • [August 21, 2017, 05:24:50 AM]
Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2017, 05:24:50 AM »
I definitely would like to, it's mostly a matter of free time at this point. If I'm not at work, I'm sleeping, pretty much. Hopefully should change in the near future so I can be intimately reminded of what free time is. :v

    • Modding version: PSX
  • * Angel should quit being a lazy bitch
    <@Elric> I agree to that as well
    At the end of the day, are we not all trapped inside lemons?
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 124]
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    • [August 21, 2017, 06:08:05 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #21 on: August 21, 2017, 06:08:05 AM »
    Well, and that you've made previously unavoidable attacks avoidable - I'm the queen of missing 90+% hits 12 consecutive times until game over, so those are my only crutch. :p
    Hehe you probably shouldn't play the XCOM series then Angel. They're infamous for missing high accuracy attacks.

    But to make this post relevant
    Thief and Lancer have innate concentrate, and most chances to hit are actually very much improved. Late game shields and mantles are also weaker. :p
    -johnmyster
    I support this. Stacking evasion can be a real problem. I'm not a big fan of handing out combat related innates to player characters; such as concentrate or the defense ups. In my hack I was hoping to give them less useful innates to free up space for better ones. For instance giving Thief innate move-find item. Knight innate defend. Archer innate poach. Etc, etc. Alternatively give them a starting status for battles like invisible on Ninjas, or Slow to balance a very powerful enemy unit (think of Regigigas' slow start from pokemon). Don't mean to patronize just my preference and a friendly suggestion. Besides that I didn't notice it listed, but perhaps include FFM's asm to prevent katanas breaking. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5658.msg118891#msg118891

    I look forward to playing this when I have time either way! Cheers!

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    johnmyster [Posts: 42]
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    • [August 21, 2017, 01:37:46 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #22 on: August 21, 2017, 01:37:46 PM »
    I definitely would like to, it's mostly a matter of free time at this point. If I'm not at work, I'm sleeping, pretty much. Hopefully should change in the near future so I can be intimately reminded of what free time is. :v

    Best of luck to you at that.

    Hehe you probably shouldn't play the XCOM series then Angel. They're infamous for missing high accuracy attacks.

    But to make this post relevantI support this. Stacking evasion can be a real problem. I'm not a big fan of handing out combat related innates to player characters; such as concentrate or the defense ups. In my hack I was hoping to give them less useful innates to free up space for better ones. For instance giving Thief innate move-find item. Knight innate defend. Archer innate poach. Etc, etc. Alternatively give them a starting status for battles like invisible on Ninjas, or Slow to balance a very powerful enemy unit (think of Regigigas' slow start from pokemon). Don't mean to patronize just my preference and a friendly suggestion. Besides that I didn't notice it listed, but perhaps include FFM's asm to prevent katanas breaking. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5658.msg118891#msg118891

    I look forward to playing this when I have time either way! Cheers!

    Good opinions and suggestions. I'll definitely look into the katana ASM hack as I'm not a huge fan of their breaking mechanic.

    Thanks for your interest!

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    Nyzer [Posts: 701]
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    • [August 21, 2017, 03:48:16 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 03:48:16 PM »
    Quote
    I'll definitely look into the katana ASM hack as I'm not a huge fan of their breaking mechanic.

    IIRC, giving them a different formula will also prevent weapons from breaking, at least on WotL.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • GET SMOKED
    Bonesy [Posts: 92]
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    • http://steamcommunity.com/id/rwbonesy/
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    • [August 22, 2017, 02:13:53 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #24 on: August 22, 2017, 02:13:53 AM »
    Played up until hitting the world map, probably gonna play more tonight.

    Good Things: I like the lowered JP costs and that some of the 0-cost stuff is there.
    Bad Things: I had to do the thieves twice because of the fucking bow dude.


    If all the stages are as frustrating as the first real one idk if i'm going to have fun especially come Dorter.

    EDIT: I did algus intro and it was managable.
    « Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:59:04 AM by Bonesy »
    • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • johnmyster [Posts: 42]
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    • [August 22, 2017, 06:29:35 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #25 on: August 22, 2017, 06:29:35 AM »
    Played up until hitting the world map, probably gonna play more tonight.

    Good Things: I like the lowered JP costs and that some of the 0-cost stuff is there.
    Bad Things: I had to do the thieves twice because of the fucking bow dude.


    If all the stages are as frustrating as the first real one idk if i'm going to have fun especially come Dorter.

    EDIT: I did algus intro and it was managable.

    Glad to see you've tried it out.

    Yeah, Gariland might be toned down a little. The monsters and ranged attacks can give you a hard time, and the player hasn't even reached their formation screen yet. :P

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    The protector
    Andre Pratama [Posts: 16]
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    • [August 22, 2017, 07:10:27 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #26 on: August 22, 2017, 07:10:27 AM »
    Unfortunately that you say is true, i enjoy this patch you made a lot of surprises in chapter 4 especially in beowulf event .. and thanks have made this patch
    johnmyster [Posts: 42]
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    • [August 22, 2017, 12:49:16 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #27 on: August 22, 2017, 12:49:16 PM »
    Unfortunately that you say is true, i enjoy this patch you made a lot of surprises in chapter 4 especially in beowulf event .. and thanks have made this patch

    What is unfortunate?

    And wow, you just might be the furthest player in the game yet. :)

    Glad to hear you've enjoyed the patch, as I enjoyed making it as well. <3

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    johnmyster [Posts: 42]
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    • [August 24, 2017, 05:22:28 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #28 on: August 24, 2017, 05:22:28 AM »
    IIRC, giving them a different formula will also prevent weapons from breaking, at least on WotL.

    This is confirmed by me not to work for the psx version. Katanas will still break, it just won't show the breaking text.

    -------------------------------

    Proper v1.01 released!

    Changes:

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 124]
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    • [August 24, 2017, 06:48:31 AM]
     :more: nice response time mate! Staying active definitely draws attention. I'll give this a proper try after I get home from the gym.

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    johnmyster [Posts: 42]
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    • [August 24, 2017, 11:31:13 AM]

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 124]
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    • [August 25, 2017, 05:31:33 AM]
    Just got past Dorter slums earlier today, didn't have too much trouble there. At first I wasn't super sure about the 0 jp idea but after seeing it in practice I heartily approve. I might steal use this for my hack. I also notice that jobs unlock very quickly. Which isn't bad really, especially since jp costs are low enough you still pick up a couple abilities first. Also your Gil rewards and costs are spot on so far. There's only a few nitpicks I have so far. There are a lot of wandering Calculators about, they aren't a big problem just kinda odd seeing them at lv3-ish. Black Gob's turn punch has enlarged aoe, it isn't that strong though but i found it odd. Knights are the best early class, hands-down. They are superbly tanky (which is the point i imagine). Monk's repeating fist usually 1-shots anything I've met so far (besides Knight). Maybe tone it down or edit bare-handed damage; they do seem to be physical glass cannons though so if it's intentional to wreck faces then pump up it's mp cost? Besides that i'd encourage increasing status' Ct so they last longer and/or aren't canceled by dying. That would make managing friend and foe status more worthwhile. Especially glad for 0 jp with Lancer lol. Liking it so far but Monks scare me

    EDIT: Oh also the changes to Undead monsters. I personally like the reverse healing and constant reraise and there's hacks to limit the phoenix down abuse on them. But you do you, it still works as you have it.

    EDIT: Just finished ch.1 I have to say somehow Charge seems better than vanilla, which would be good in my book. That Algus fight took me awhile to work through, nice work. Mostly those mages and the enemies' next-tier equipment. 5 seems a good limit to Jump's range. Really enjoying it man.
    « Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 09:52:02 AM by Lionheart537 »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    johnmyster [Posts: 42]
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    • [August 25, 2017, 02:41:12 PM]
    Just got past Dorter slums earlier today, didn't have too much trouble there. At first I wasn't super sure about the 0 jp idea but after seeing it in practice I heartily approve. I might steal use this for my hack. I also notice that jobs unlock very quickly. Which isn't bad really, especially since jp costs are low enough you still pick up a couple abilities first. Also your Gil rewards and costs are spot on so far. There's only a few nitpicks I have so far. There are a lot of wandering Calculators about, they aren't a big problem just kinda odd seeing them at lv3-ish. Black Gob's turn punch has enlarged aoe, it isn't that strong though but i found it odd. Knights are the best early class, hands-down. They are superbly tanky (which is the point i imagine). Monk's repeating fist usually 1-shots anything I've met so far (besides Knight). Maybe tone it down or edit bare-handed damage; they do seem to be physical glass cannons though so if it's intentional to wreck faces then pump up it's mp cost? Besides that i'd encourage increasing status' Ct so they last longer and/or aren't canceled by dying. That would make managing friend and foe status more worthwhile. Especially glad for 0 jp with Lancer lol. Liking it so far but Monks scare me

    EDIT: Oh also the changes to Undead monsters. I personally like the reverse healing and constant reraise and there's hacks to limit the phoenix down abuse on them. But you do you, it still works as you have it.

    EDIT: Just finished ch.1 I have to say somehow Charge seems better than vanilla, which would be good in my book. That Algus fight took me awhile to work through, nice work. Mostly those mages and the enemies' next-tier equipment. 5 seems a good limit to Jump's range. Really enjoying it man.

    Glad you like! Feel free to borrow some ideas like the 0 jp you mentioned. :P

    There's maybe a couple more battles with calcs than vanilla, rng seems to favor (or disfavor) you. Lenalia Plateau in particular has a multi-calc battle in vanilla. Goblin Punch having range is for balance purposes, if you still don't find it strong then the range buff was definitely needed. It's kind of like Wave Fist.

    Knights are strong throughout the game, though even in vanilla they were strong in Chapter 1. Repeating Fist only does 1/9 more damage than vanilla (randomized), though it doesn't miss of course which is big.

    Once characters get some more speed, statuses may get more viable as more Active Turns will pass before they wear off. Their length is unchanged from vanilla, for good or bad, though changing some up isn't out of the question. As for undead, I don't care for the randomized auto-revival and inability to have them revived manually. Certainly goes against a Final Fantasy staple not having heals hurt them, but it still feels right.

    Charge is indeed much strong than vanilla. Also, remember that after Miluda's second defeat shops unlock additional gear.

    Thanks for your input, and I look forward to hearing more!

    - johnmyster

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    The protector
    Andre Pratama [Posts: 16]
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    • [August 25, 2017, 07:04:14 PM]
    No one unfortunate, sorry i am wrong :)
    Lol There's an error in status ??? If the item was stolen or destroyed mainly helmet and armor
    For example elmdor somehow becomes critical even though hp is still high
    Hyraldelita [Posts: 189]
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    • [August 29, 2017, 02:12:10 PM]
    i will comment this cause i think i'm one of those people who got triggered by the mod name :D

    If you don't want to trigger people than give the mods "proper" names ^^

    I don't call a patch "best patch ever and your sucks" and than i say "that's not what i meant is just a title" XD

    Anyway.. as elric said, i also don't like vanilla mod... that's is the real reason why i will not try the mod.

    But i do have something positive to say about it, you sure put a lot of effort , even if you didn't have to change sprites, events etc.. i tried and i failed, so i will give you credit for that :)
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 124]
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    • [August 30, 2017, 12:31:29 AM]
    Made good progress into Ch.2, just got Agrias. So update on my thoughts. I notice it's more of a damage race, like in the vanilla. One question I have is are enemies preset with level and equipment or did you set them to scale with the party? I ask because for awhile now every enemy has been 5-7 levels higher than mine. At the execution grounds the enemy average is 21 and my party's is 16 (excluding Agrias who comes in as 22). Static enemy levels encourage grinding to make them easier, but with very low jp costs grinding seems less necessary or appealing. Wondering if I should grind to catch up or if that will only raise difficulty as the ai scale with and get better gear.

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    johnmyster [Posts: 42]
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    • [August 30, 2017, 06:05:11 PM]
    No one unfortunate, sorry i am wrong :)
    Lol There's an error in status ??? If the item was stolen or destroyed mainly helmet and armor
    For example elmdor somehow becomes critical even though hp is still high

    Not sure how to fix that if it is indeed a bug, but thanks for letting me know.

    I don't call a patch "best patch ever and your sucks" and than i say "that's not what i meant is just a title" XD

    But i do have something positive to say about it, you sure put a lot of effort , even if you didn't have to change sprites, events etc.. i tried and i failed, so i will give you credit for that :)

    I never meant to criticize other patches — in fact, many small aspects of Proper are inspired by other patches, as I note in my main post. Tone is sometimes hard to convey over the internet. Anyways, enough about that...

    Thanks for the bit of positivity as well. :)

    Made good progress into Ch.2, just got Agrias. So update on my thoughts. I notice it's more of a damage race, like in the vanilla. One question I have is are enemies preset with level and equipment or did you set them to scale with the party? I ask because for awhile now every enemy has been 5-7 levels higher than mine. At the execution grounds the enemy average is 21 and my party's is 16 (excluding Agrias who comes in as 22). Static enemy levels encourage grinding to make them easier, but with very low jp costs grinding seems less necessary or appealing. Wondering if I should grind to catch up or if that will only raise difficulty as the ai scale with and get better gear.

    For story battles, the vast majority of AI are at a fixed level. Exceptions may include those that also scaled with the party in vanilla — monsters and quasi-undead class variations. In addition, maybe one or two extra enemies throughout all of the story battles are set to scale with the party.

    I'll also quote part of my main post,

    For Golgorand, I would at least level to 16-18 for the first speed point if you're having trouble. In general, "catching up" to the enemy's level isn't really needed to beat most of the game, though it can help. In Chapter 3 your opponents' levels, equipment, and ability combos really start to ramp up, but by that time you should have a strong team composition that is able to adapt to different situations.

    Even if you're 5+ levels behind the AI in Chapter 3, once you've discovered some strong setups the game's difficulty curve shouldn't ramp up too fast, and may even get easier at times. The sweet spot that Proper aims for is 3-4 tries for a battle, leaning towards less attempts needed to not overly frustrate the player. Of course, experiences will vary widely depending on your strategy and tactics.

    You'll get more experience against foes who are a higher level than you as well. Due to the linear growth of stats and the importance of equipment, individual level-ups start to matter less as the game goes on — especially for humans.


    May the RNG be with you,

    - johnmyster
    « Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 07:23:47 PM by johnmyster »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    wuwuwu [Posts: 3]
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    • [August 31, 2017, 12:01:28 AM]
      FFT Proper v1.01 has Speed Save and non-charge and Accumulate! They are Too strong!
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 124]
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    • [August 31, 2017, 12:20:56 AM]
    Well speed save costs a ton of jp to learn. Accumulate has a mp cost and charge time now. And I noticed half charge but most spells cast faster now so it isn't as strong anymore. But I guess if John wanted he could tack on the pa/ma/sp min/max hack to limit their abuse. Not that I find myself able to abuse them or Yell with the charge time and mp costs.

    EDIT: unless by noncharge you are referring to Calculators math skills. To which I can say I'm pretty sure less spells can be cast via mathematics, only weaker ones. I will say that enemy mages keep nuking me with Fire 4 and reflect doesn't stop it but *shrugs* what can you do. Not a big issue imo

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    wuwuwu [Posts: 3]
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    • [August 31, 2017, 03:31:22 AM]
      FFT Proper v1.01:Spin Fist can't miss and Lancer Innate Ignore Height and Concentrate are Too strong! Axes and Flails should no longer random damage!
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