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johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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  • [August 15, 2017, 06:49:03 AM]
8/31/2017: Proper v1.02 released!

Changes:


8/23/2017: Proper v1.01 released!
As always, remember to patch a fresh FFT ISO.

Changes:

8/21/2017: Images resized to 4:3 ratio!
Apologies to all who were triggered by the widescreen images. :P

-----------------------------------

(GameFAQS topic, including play-by-play from philsov.)

After years of work and dozens of hours of editing and playtesting, I am finally ready to introduce my Final Fantasy Tactics patch: Proper.

Download:

v1.02
v1.01
v1.00

Mirrors:

DataFileHost.com (v1.02)
DataFileHost.com (v1.01)
DataFileHost.com (v1.00)



Proper is a patch made with vanilla FFT as its base. When in doubt, the patch looks towards its vanilla origins for inspiration and guidance, like an apprentice to a master. Yet with time this apprentice has grown and surpassed its master, as well as taking influences from other patches, performing the following:

Every job, ability, story battle, and item in the game has been looked at, and looked at again for purposes of balance, fun, and variety. Questions like,
"What is the purpose of this ability/job/item?"
"How does it compare to others in the same or different categories?"
"Does it work?"
"Is it fun?"
"How is its power for both early, mid, and end-game level?"

have all been asked all throughout Proper's development.



As a result, almost every job, ability, and item in the game has been modified in one way or another. Some, like the chain vest, simply gained a single health point. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Rafa and Malak's skillsets have been completely reworked. All item, job, and ability descriptions have been edited to reflect their changes.



When you start playing Proper, here are the main things you will notice:

1. Jp costs for abilities have been severely reduced, and Gained JP UP removed.

Many classes have free abilities that cost 0 JP to learn, often for abilities that are either core to the jobs playstyle (Haste, Cure, etc.) or not very useful to begin with (Any Weather, Gilgame heart, etc.). Strong R/S/M abilities (that haven't been removed completely), such as auto potion and two swords, remain at over 300 or 400 JP. If you end the game around like 75, you should have gotten most of the abilities you wanted but still occasionally finding yourself having wanted one that wasn't unlocked.

2. Monsters are much stronger, often sporting higher hp, movement, and range.

A few, like the trees and dragons, have gained some new innate statuses like fly and regen. Innately undead jobs and monsters have had their undead status removed but many of its perks and drawbacks retained, like immunity to poison. To follow along the spirit of vanilla, these units now have Initial: Reraise.



3. The game is now consistently challenging, but not overly oppressive.

At least, that's the design philosophy around Proper. Of course, your experience can and will vary as different jobs and combinations are tried out that I haven't anticipated. Some battles have been made a bit easier than surrounding battles to give the player a small break.  :lol:

To promote a sense of progress and player control over the game, I let most enemies in story battles remain at a fixed level. This level, however, is usually higher and the gap between vanilla and Proper enemy levels increases as the game goes on. Chapter 1 story battle generics top out at around level 10. Chapter 2, 23. Chapter 3, 44. Chapter 4, 88 (67 before the final Orbonne battles). For an optimum experience, I recommend playing through the story battles until you get a bit stuck before grinding for a couple levels / 250 JP or whatever and then trying again. Of course, you can play however you like.

4. The game looks exactly the same.

No fancy new sprites or palette swaps here, though I would like a proper title screen with at least the patch's name on it but I don't know how.  :P

Some animations have been replaced with faster ones (Ifrit>Fire), though Glain's skip event hack has also been implemented to skip past story events and animations alike.

5. Most previously unevadeable abilities (Holy Sword, Summons, Limit, etc.) can now miss,

but status affliction, stat changing abilties, etc., will usually miss less often than vanilla, except for invitation. Notable exceptions include Draw Out, Elemental, and the Ultima ability.



6. Many spells have massively reduced charge times, and are often cheaper.

This allows mages to be much more consistent until around the middle of chapter 4.

7. On the other hand, many previously instant no-MP abilities now have a charge time and/or an MP cost.

The MP cost is often small, but spamming many abilities, especially in the early game, won't be viable without some MP recovery.

8. On the other other hand, many abilities have slightly increased vertical tolerance. You'll still need flat land for Chakra and Elemental skills, but you can now get your precious Revive in at a 1 height difference, with a higher chance to hit — with a small MP and CT "cost", and less HP recovered than vanilla.

The powerful Haste still requires flat land, but Protect and Regen are now a little more forgiving.



9. Enemies have better equipment and abilities. Mages have a fixed faith value, usually high.

10. Enemies are more diverse, and will often have skillsets that differ from their jobs due to sprite limits.


11. There are sometimes simply more enemies in a given battle.

12.  Characters that join you, especially later in the game, have much more unlocked.

Cloud joins at your party level. Meliadoul has both Innate Defense UPs, Crush Punch, and even innate maintenance. Orlandu is nerfed up the Yin-Yang. Cloud, Reis, and Worker 8 are tweaked. I especially like Agrias, she feels strong but never overpowered. Rafa and Malak reworked, with consistent faith-based spells. Rafa's spells are a bit weaker than Malak's, but more of them can inflict status effects. Malak has innate two-swords and has more negative status afflictions.

In addition, many random battles are edited a bit to gain some variety. Yuguo Woods, Grog Hill, Bed Desert, Zirekile Falls, Barius Hill, and Doguola Pass are less customized then the others.

Many Deep Dungeon battles were tweaked to add some variety, challenge, and less Goblins.  :roll:

These ASM hacks were used:
Broken / Stolen items buyable in fur shop
JP Scroll Glitch Fix
Special characters can do propositions
Secret Hunt not needed for Fur shop
Start button skips events (careful using during battles, particularly during character movements.)
Smart encounters - click on an area to activate the random battle, clicking on towns and such skips random battles. No need for resetting / world map savestates!
(v1.01) Katana Break Chance ASM - Set to 0% break rate, but they will still break, though seemingly less often.

I can't remember if historical leveling down is in or not, as I tried to minimize the ASMs to reduce possible bugs. Either way, if the player really wants to abuse leveling down, though it's less effective than vanilla, more power to them I guess. (Historical Leveling down not present from v1.01 and above)

Some shops stock additional equipment types. A few shops that you're locked into for a time are given all equipment types of the appropriate level. Many items are cheaper, and some special items give more than 5 gil when sold.

Brave/Faith altering are still in the game, as I thought them core to the Mediator's skillset and I just don't like being stuck with randomized brave and faith. Br/Fa raising is faster, but many enemies have strong set Br/Fa values.




For those who would like to see more detail, keep on reading. Otherwise, feel free to click that download at the bottom and try for yourself! Thank you for your interest, and I'd love to hear any and all feedback, especially some battle logs! No doubt your experience will vary from my testing, and I'm curious to see what you think.

Please note that only epsxe has been tested.

Note for those unfamiliar with FFT's stat mechanics: Due to the way FFT's stats grow, a "higher" growth is a smaller number. For example, an HP Growth of 5 for a job is extremely high and far into the territory reserved only for monster and bosses. On the other hand, an HP Growth of 16 is abysmal. Vanilla bards actually had an HP Growth of 20.  :roll:

Overview of Generic Jobs

In short, the range of growth rates between jobs has been reduced. Leveling in certain jobs can still be beneficial, but is by no means required.


Stat Growths for Generics and Special Characters: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VygESjT-V638wcLZ4MmqQQuA6mfpi2CDQtXTXxBUzEU/edit?usp=sharing

Class-by-class Changes Summary (not exhaustive)






Some jobs have gained innate abilities for balance and/or flavor:



Also, Priest takes Half damage from Holy, as do many jobs with Holy in their name. Most bosses are immune to or absorb dark to prevent %hp attack cheese. Late-game bosses especially are immune to most/all statuses.



Additional Equips


Removed Abilities (from Player)

Blade Grasp
Damage Split
Negotiate
Martial Arts
Hamedo



All Mythril equips except for the gun and knife give +1 MA. Many legendary items are nerfed, but still strong.

Note: Lists not exhaustive. Not all changes documented.

Weapons


Shields, Armors, Accessories


Job Level Requirements:

Raised to give the AI some more JP to work with.

Job Requirements:


The same or lower than vanilla's, especially mime and calc.

Poaches, Move-Find Item:
99% unchanged from vanilla. Some poaches are available earlier due to random battle changes.

Zodiac Signs:
Most enemies and allies now have random zodiacs.

Propositions:
Double 180%(v1.02) the base JP reward of vanilla, plus 5% increased extra day jp and +20 "bonus" jp. "Bonus" Gil for some job types are increased.

The price of many propositions is decreased, and most propositions are shorter in length as well.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 07:01:23 AM by johnmyster »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    Raijinili [Posts: 57]
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    • [August 15, 2017, 07:28:48 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 07:28:48 PM »
    Quote
    Many classes have free abilities that cost 0 JP to learn, often for abilities that are either core to the jobs playstyle (Haste, Cure, etc.) or not very useful to begin with (Any Weather, Gilgame heart, etc.).

    Did you also up the active ones to 100% Learn so that enemies will always have them? And put the useless R/S/M at 0% so enemies won't accidentally equip them.

    I like the idea of 100% 0 JP for basic skills.

    Quote
    Cloud and especially Orlandu are nerfed up the Yin-Yang, along with Reis and Worker 8.

    Nerfing Cloud, Reis, and Worker 8? What?

    Quote
    Rafa and Malak reworked, with consistent faith-based spells.

    You made them slightly-stronger Black Mages??

    If you want to rethink Rafalak, I have patches for:
    - Un-Truth uses PA instead of MA. (Still magical.)
    - Rando-spells always do max number of hits.
    - Un-Truth Faith/Innocent bugfix.
    - Truth uses Faith. (Still quadratic.) (Evil hack using nonlocal jump. I don't know why you'd want to use this anyway.)

    Quote
    Rafa's spells are a bit weaker than Malak's

    Did you take Rafa's female +25% MA into account when judging which spells are stronger?

    Quote
    These ASM hacks were used:

    Consider the "Sets the title screens default option from New Game to Continue" hack from Xif.

    Quote
    Summons can miss and hit allies, but are faster and some a bit cheaper.

    How is Summon prevented from being a stronger, faster Black Magic? Its minor weakness was its MP cost.

    Quote
    Geomancer - Magic Defense UP, Any Ground

    Why does it need MD Up? And what about Move on Lava?

    Quote
    Faster and more mobile to compensate for skillset's lack of versatility.
    Quote
    Lancer - Ignore Height, Concentrate

    Both are strong abilities, and don't seem necessary. Concentrate only applies to their Attack, since Jump ignores evasion. Why were these abilities added? Lancer is a one-trick pony, but that one trick is very good, and "kill stuff" is central to the game.

    Quote
    All Mythril equips except for the gun give +1 MA.

    Why not Gun? Talk Skill uses MA.

    Quote
    Blaze/Glacier guns swapped.

    Blaze/Glacial Gun were not swapped in translation.

    (You may also want to base text edits on that patch.)
    johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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    • [August 15, 2017, 10:29:25 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #2 on: August 15, 2017, 10:29:25 PM »
    Did you also up the active ones to 100% Learn so that enemies will always have them? And put the useless R/S/M at 0% so enemies won't accidentally equip them.

    I like the idea of 100% 0 JP for basic skills.



    Of course. 0 JP abilities are gained 100% of the time for the AI, unless they also fit into nearly useless category, then it is 0%. The AI has a good chance of learning stronger abilities, and has more JP to spend on even cheaper skills.

    Sure, the AI will still set equip crossbow and use a sword, but this kind of thing's chance is either calculated into a battle's difficulty or overwritten altogether with manually set R/S/M's.

    Nerfing Cloud, Reis, and Worker 8? What?

    Mostly minor nerfs for Reis, though her Holy Bracelet now is like a fast, cheap summon. Many vanilla late-game builds involve a strong Reis, not sure why small stat nerfs are a surprise.

    For Cloud, well, decreased charge times helps him a lot. I suppose he's more sidegraded in ways. He has 4 move instead of 3, and can use any type of Sword for Limit skills. Climhazzard is very strong against bosses.

    Worker 8 is more mobile and has more HP, but he does less damage and has less range on the 8-range skill.

    You made them slightly-stronger Black Mages??

    If you want to rethink Rafalak, I have patches for:
    - Un-Truth uses PA instead of MA. (Still magical.)
    - Rando-spells always do max number of hits.
    - Un-Truth Faith/Innocent bugfix.
    - Truth uses Faith. (Still quadratic.) (Evil hack using nonlocal jump. I don't know why you'd want to use this anyway.)


    They're more than slightly stronger Black Mages. Rafa has 19% chance of status effects on most attacks, and has a dedicated AoE buff. Malak has Two Swords, a 100% single target slow, and a dedicated de-buff. His attacks are mostly stronger than Rafa's before taking into account gender-skewed MA. Sure, they need more testing, but I wouldn't discount them.

    Did you take Rafa's female +25% MA into account when judging which spells are stronger?


    Yes.

    Consider the "Sets the title screens default option from New Game to Continue" hack from Xif.

    Ok.

    How is Summon prevented from being a stronger, faster Black Magic? Its minor weakness was its MP cost.

    It's not stronger or faster than Black Magic. They have more area of effect, but are generally slower than Black Magic, along with some healing, status, and % damage. Black Magic has 12 elemental spells, which now all have different speeds, MP costs, and power so you can cast a spell of your liking, where you want it, at the power you need it, without hitting your allies as often. Sure, you can equip absorption equipment, but you're also giving up some to wear those equips. Summon spells are strong but bulky, and the Summoner class itself has less HP and MA than Wizard. Only the higher level summons are a bit cheaper than vanilla, by about 10%. This also helps the AI slightly, as they have no qualms in using all of their MP in a couple turns, even if it doesn't swing the battle enough their way to justify using it all.

    The Summon vs. Wizard discussion is a very good one to have, though, as they both have the ability to strongly swing battles, particularly in the early and mid game. The AI has more recovery than vanilla, making battles last a bit longer and summoners can run out of MP a bit more often.

    Why does it need MD Up? And what about Move on Lava?

    For the one map, Bervenia Volcano? Sure I suppose.
    As for MD, Geomancers go from being a decent, average class to kinda meh with other classes buffs. MD Up gives them a strong potential role that they can fill that no other class can do the same way without using a support slot: Magic Resistance. Their range is only 4 now, with Elemental attacks being just slightly stronger.

    You can nitpick all you want, but so many things have changed in the patch that you can't really always use vanilla as a form of reference as to what's strong and what isn't. Things aren't always the same as they look on paper. Still, you are right to be concerned about 1/3 less magic damage received for a class, but Geomancers still don't feel particularly strong in Proper.


    Both are strong abilities, and don't seem necessary. Concentrate only applies to their Attack, since Jump ignores evasion. Why were these abilities added? Lancer is a one-trick pony, but that one trick is very good, and "kill stuff" is central to the game.

    Fair points. Jump is strong but it can be bulky to hit, leaving them often with only their attack to use. Jump range is decreased to 5 horizontally as well. That is why Concentrate is innate, to make Lancer simply more consistent. He doesn't have the defenses of the Knight or Geomancer, the speed of a Ninja, or the AoE and Crowd Control of mages. The AI will also abuse evasion builds, and it doesn't calculate jumps properly. The AI is able to sustain and recover from a lancer rush far better than in vanilla.

    Even so, a one-trick Jump pony isn't always going to help you win 5v8s very well, or against bosses who will take more than a turn to die.

    I'd try it before you knock it.  ;)


    Why not Gun? Talk Skill uses MA.

    We're talking about a 1% increase in hit chances if they had +1 MA. Sure, every bit helps, but it's not crucial one way or the other. They already have better hit chances on everything except invite.

    Blaze/Glacial Gun were not swapped in translation.

    (You may also want to base text edits on that patch.)

    Fair enough, but it still makes more sense to me. Even if it is false that they were swapped in translation, many have been led to believe that for a reason. "Glacier" does not conjure an image of fire in English speaker's minds. They think ice.
    « Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 10:51:39 PM by johnmyster »
    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    Raijinili [Posts: 57]
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    • [August 16, 2017, 12:55:26 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 12:55:26 AM »
    Quote
    Sure, the AI will still set equip crossbow and use a sword, but this kind of thing's chance is either calculated into a battle's difficulty or overwritten altogether with manually set R/S/M's.

    Speaking of which, you can add Equip X skills as innates to prevent them from being equipped by random generation. Equip Sword and Equip Shield on Geomancer, for example. But don't actually do that for Geomancer, because other innates want those slots and there aren't many enemy Geomancers.

    Quote
    Many vanilla late-game builds involve a strong Reis, not sure why small stat nerfs are a surprise.

    Only because her stat growths are a little more optimal than generics. Neither her skillset nor her job are useful enough to make it into her good builds, and that's an issue.

    Quote
    Black Magic has 12 elemental spells, which now all have different speeds, MP costs, and power so you can cast a spell of your liking, where you want it, at the power you need it, without hitting your allies as often.

    The range of elemental spells you actually want to use are limited at any given time. You don't need to use high-end spells in the early game, and you can't use high-end spells in the late game due to charge time unless Short Charge is a staple.

    Quote
    We're talking about a 1% increase in hit chances if they had +1 MA. Sure, every bit helps, but it's not crucial one way or the other. They already have better hit chances on everything except invite.

    I'm actually asking why Gun is the exception.
    johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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    • [August 16, 2017, 02:31:06 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 02:31:06 AM »
    Speaking of which, you can add Equip X skills as innates to prevent them from being equipped by random generation. Equip Sword and Equip Shield on Geomancer, for example. But don't actually do that for Geomancer, because other innates want those slots and there aren't many enemy Geomancers.


    Good to know, thanks!

    Only because her stat growths are a little more optimal than generics. Neither her skillset nor her job are useful enough to make it into her good builds, and that's an issue.

    True enough. I still found with equip armor her tankiness very nice in Proper.

    The range of elemental spells you actually want to use are limited at any given time. You don't need to use high-end spells in the early game, and you can't use high-end spells in the late game due to charge time unless Short Charge is a staple.


    Fair enough.

    I'm actually asking why Gun is the exception.

    Ehhh I guess I don't have a really good reason. It's not like it would make the Mythril Gun overpowered or anything.

    Also through an oversight, Mythril Knife is missing the +1 MA, though it still gets the +1 Speed of Knives. Mythril Knife is so early in the game though compared to other Mythrils I might leave it that way, since magic is already really strong early game.

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    The protector
    Andre Pratama [Posts: 16]
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    • [August 16, 2017, 04:27:23 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 04:27:23 PM »
    This amazing makes me back playing fft. His difficulty in my opinion is balanced unlike v 1.3.0.8 which is very difficult but there is a problem in the event zeklaus desert a knight wrong look at hokuten knight
    johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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    • [August 16, 2017, 05:17:20 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 05:17:20 PM »
    This amazing makes me back playing fft. His difficulty in my opinion is balanced unlike v 1.3.0.8 which is very difficult but there is a problem in the event zeklaus desert a knight wrong look at hokuten knight

    Ha, this funny encounter is actually unchanged from vanilla. You're referring to the battle where you have a single knight as a guest fighting a Minitaurus, correct?

    I, too never noticed this encounter before playing Proper, or at least forgot about it if I did.

    If you're referring to the Sand Ra-a-at Cellar story battle, I'm not sure how that is, as all palettes and team colors are unchanged for that battle.

    Either way, I'm glad you're enjoying the patch so far!

    Cheers,

    johnmyster

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    GET SMOKED
    Bonesy [Posts: 87]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 02:30:49 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 02:30:49 AM »
    idk calling your hack "the proper way to play fft" is pretty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man

    why should i play your hack over the other vanilla hacks out there I haven't touched or played much of for one reason or another?
    Ansehelm [Posts: 36]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 04:08:39 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 04:08:39 AM »
    Looks like something to keep an eye on.  I'd like to take some time to test it, although right now I'm scrambling to get a demo finished for my hack. 

    I wouldn't have phrased my comment quite as bonesy did, but he has a point - as modders, we put a lot of work into making a hack and adding fresh changes, but what ultimately makes a mod successful is the community, so we have to work not only to advertise our projects, but to get a pulse on players' interests so that we can give them what they want.  In this day and age, it's hard for a vanilla mod - excellent and balanced as it may be, to really stand out from the crowd of existing mods that have already stood the test of time.  Not to say it can't be done of course - I am in process of making a vanilla mod (at least plot-wise) and think it can be fairly successful - but your mod should stand out in some significant way that will make players clearly choose it over the other options (FFT +, CCP, 1.3 Content, etc).  Thing is, I'm not quite seeing the niche here.

    My honest impression of this is that I like a lot of the features, but there's not much about it that seems really unique or compelling.  Most of this has been done before. To use a relationship analogy, it has the appearances of the "nice girl/guy" - it seems like a good mod with cool features that I should want to play, but may not ultimately have that spice that actually compels me to action or excites my emotions much.

    Anyway, take this not as an attempt to undermine the success of your patch, but as a statement of the some of the things you will run up against and as an invitation for you to sell us your mod more effectively.  In any case, I have to appreciate the work put in here and hope others give this a shot.  I intend to when I have more free time.
    Always fashionably late to the party.
    Lionheart537 [Posts: 117]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 04:43:43 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 04:43:43 AM »
    Compromise answer: play all the mods. If you got the time at least.

    • Modding version: PSX
  • It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
    Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
    http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0
    johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 05:07:31 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 05:07:31 AM »
    idk calling your hack "the proper way to play fft" is pretty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man

    why should i play your hack over the other vanilla hacks out there I haven't touched or played much of for one reason or another?

    Haha about "The Proper Way to play FFT", it's meant to be taken tongue-in-cheek but your reaction is valid of course.

    Why should you play my patch? Well, if my notes and screenshots haven't sold you, then I'd like to leave the rest of "selling" my patch to those with good stories of playing it, to be honest.

    With that said, I have played through FFT literally dozens of times, and the patch was designed to breathe new life into the game for a player that has been there, done that, seen it all. (Though of course with FFT even with hundreds (thousands?) of hours over the last 15 years there's new ways to experience it)

    The patch was designed to be challenging, yes, but more so it was designed to simply provide variety. Variety in the enemies you face and their custom skillsets and variety in the amount of viable options a player has.

    Looks like something to keep an eye on.  I'd like to take some time to test it, although right now I'm scrambling to get a demo finished for my hack. 

    I wouldn't have phrased my comment quite as bonesy did, but he has a point - as modders, we put a lot of work into making a hack and adding fresh changes, but what ultimately makes a mod successful is the community, so we have to work not only to advertise our projects, but to get a pulse on players' interests so that we can give them what they want.  In this day and age, it's hard for a vanilla mod - excellent and balanced as it may be, to really stand out from the crowd of existing mods that have already stood the test of time.  Not to say it can't be done of course - I am in process of making a vanilla mod (at least plot-wise) and think it can be fairly successful - but your mod should stand out in some significant way that will make players clearly choose it over the other options (FFT +, CCP, 1.3 Content, etc).  Thing is, I'm not quite seeing the niche here.

    My honest impression of this is that I like a lot of the features, but there's not much about it that seems really unique or compelling.  Most of this has been done before. To use a relationship analogy, it has the appearances of the "nice girl/guy" - it seems like a good mod with cool features that I should want to play, but may not ultimately have that spice that actually compels me to action or excites my emotions much.

    Anyway, take this not as an attempt to undermine the success of your patch, but as a statement of the some of the things you will run up against and as an invitation for you to sell us your mod more effectively.  In any case, I have to appreciate the work put in here and hope others give this a shot.  I intend to when I have more free time.

    Thanks for your lengthy response. Your reaction is well justified — a game of FFT can be a large time commitment, though with the story skipping asm and its low-jp requirements you should be able to jump right in. I would refer to my bonesy response higher in this same post, as much of it applies to your concern as well.

    And, of course, sitting back and letting others try it out first is a perfectly valid response. How you spend your time is valuable and up to you. <3

    Cheers,

    - johnmyster

    Compromise answer: play all the mods. If you got the time at least.

    Haha fair enough. :P

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
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    Bonesy [Posts: 87]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 08:06:36 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 08:06:36 AM »
    I will give you this much: at least it isn't 1.3 or FFT+ and thusly I'll probably give it a shot at some point eventually.
    johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 03:50:15 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 03:50:15 PM »
    I will give you this much: at least it isn't 1.3 or FFT+ and thusly I'll probably give it a shot at some point eventually.

    It secretly is both 1.3 and FFT+. O.o o.O
    *insert squirrel dun dun dunnn meme*

    https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/75672737

    ^ Topic on Gamefaqs. Philsov is doing a play-by-play as well.

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  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 06:01:19 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 06:01:19 PM »
    I will give you this much: at least it isn't 1.3 or FFT+ and thusly I'll probably give it a shot at some point eventually.

    Are my initial impressions so far, yeah.  It's novel and refreshing.  I don't recall FFT+ enough to know where it sits on the spectrum between vanilla and 1.3, but Proper is in a sweet spot between the two.  Upgrade in every capacity over Vanilla so far, and doesn't require the precision or overpowering brute force 1.3 calls for.  With Br/Fa modding and speed abuse still being possible, some restraint may be necessary but if that's inline with the design philosophy so be it. 

    And it's not absurd like LFT (imo!  I tried it but couldn't muster.  Its design philosophy was to make an improved game but still be SCC viable which... I don't think was executed well)

    ~

    Also -- hi all <3.  Long time no see.

    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 3820]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 10:05:59 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 10:05:59 PM »
    Are my initial impressions so far, yeah.  It's novel and refreshing.  I don't recall FFT+ enough to know where it sits on the spectrum between vanilla and 1.3, but Proper is in a sweet spot between the two.  Upgrade in every capacity over Vanilla so far, and doesn't require the precision or overpowering brute force 1.3 calls for.  With Br/Fa modding and speed abuse still being possible, some restraint may be necessary but if that's inline with the design philosophy so be it. 

    And it's not absurd like LFT (imo!  I tried it but couldn't muster.  Its design philosophy was to make an improved game but still be SCC viable which... I don't think was executed well)

    ~

    Also -- hi all <3.  Long time no see.

    I thought you died when Eternal became Admin :o
    (he's not anymore, btw ;))

    I'd try this patch, but i don't think I'm proper enough and the tag line urks me a bit
    (And I don't like vanilla patches)
    « Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:26:12 PM by Elric »
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    Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 4235]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 10:34:43 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 10:34:43 PM »
    I'd just like to point out that both:
    - That your mod is the "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    - Your modifications follows the "spirit of vanilla"

    Are both extremely arrogant claims that can only be applied to the raw, unmodified game. Your mod is a mod, it's not the original game; don't kid yourself. You'll never reach the audience that the original game had.

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  • <R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
    <Raijinili> remember that? it was awful
    Andrew [Posts: 210]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 11:10:28 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #16 on: August 17, 2017, 11:10:28 PM »
    Catchy title made me click on this thread!  Cool beans!  It looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this patch.  I hope that it gets a good amount of attention.  :)  Some changes that really stood-out for me:


    1) Reduced JP costs.  If there's one thing I've always hated about starting a new game, it's having to grind for all of the skills that I want.  I'm the type of person that likes to have their "final" party assembled ASAP, so this is a big plus.

    2) Monster rebalance.  Most of them stunk in vanilla, so it's nice to see that you could roll with a bunch of monsters (in an increased difficulty mod, at that) and stand a chance against what the game throws at you.  Good stuff.

    3) Recruitables have more unlocked.  This ties into my first point.  No much more to say, honestly.

    4) The patch maintains a lot of the vanilla flavour.  There's a lot of patch creators out there who change nearly every single aspect of the game (that they have access to), so it's refreshing to see a patch that emulates the best of what vanilla has to offer while staying true to the original game.

    5) Start skips events.  When you've seen the game's cut scenes a billion times, this is a godsend.  Also, it's nice being able to choose whether or not you want to do a random battle.


    Keep up the good work!
    johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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    • [August 17, 2017, 11:50:59 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 11:50:59 PM »
    I thought you died when Eternal became Admin :o
    (he's not anymore, btw ;))

    I'd try this patch, but i don't think I'm proper enough and the tag line urks me a bit
    (And I don't like vanilla patches)

    Everyone is proper enough. :P

    I'd just like to point out that both:
    - That your mod is the "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    - Your modifications follows the "spirit of vanilla"

    Are both extremely arrogant claims that can only be applied to the raw, unmodified game. Your mod is a mod, it's not the original game; don't kid yourself. You'll never reach the audience that the original game had.

    Haha oh my, chewed out by Xif.

    I suppose tone is hard to convey over the internet and I may appear rather arrogant and trigger some people.

    I'll take my responses piece by piece:

    "The Proper Way to play FFT" is just that — a tagline. Of course there's 1,000,000,000 ways to play FFT, this is simply one of them. I'm sorry if this somehow triggers people into thinking I'm some arrogant dude who thinks his patch is god, or that I stepped on the toes of hackers far more talented than me.  :roll:

    "Your modifications follows the 'spirit of vanilla'"

    This line simply is meant to reflect on my design philosophy. I wasn't out to change the game into something its not. I relied heavily on the original vanilla's concepts and formulas as a wall to lean for balance and compare to when I wasn't sure what would and wouldn't be balanced. I attempted to take what was good about the original game and highlight those aspects — the strategy, and the tension possible before the player had figured out how to break the game's balance or starts attempting challenges such as SCC's.

    Of course, I took plenty of liberties with enemies having all sorts of skillsets, redoing Rafalak, and putting in a few Zodiac bosses outside of their normal battles to spice things up a bit. Heck, I made some characters use generic sprites just to put an extra class in there to fight so one guy wasn't hogging 1/9 of the sprite space all the time.

    Of course my mod is just a mod. It's my version of a product produced by Square that was only made possible using tools made by very talented and dedicated hackers, yourself included. It's meant to celebrate Final Fantasy Tactics, the game.

    Reaching the audience that vanilla had is not even close to my goal. Even if five... no, even if one person besides me enjoys Proper for what it is, then the patch is a success in my eyes.

    Catchy title made me click on this thread!  Cool beans!  It looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this patch.  I hope that it gets a good amount of attention.  :)  Some changes that really stood-out for me:


    2) Monster rebalance.  Most of them stunk in vanilla, so it's nice to see that you could roll with a bunch of monsters (in an increased difficulty mod, at that) and stand a chance against what the game throws at you.  Good stuff.

    3) Recruitables have more unlocked.  This ties into my first point.  No much more to say, honestly.

    4) The patch maintains a lot of the vanilla flavour.  There's a lot of patch creators out there who change nearly every single aspect of the game (that they have access to), so it's refreshing to see a patch that emulates the best of what vanilla has to offer while staying true to the original game.

    5) Start skips events.  When you've seen the game's cut scenes a billion times, this is a godsend.  Also, it's nice being able to choose whether or not you want to do a random battle.


    Keep up the good work!

    Thanks for your reply, and positive attitude so far.  :P

    On Monsters
    : Honestly, I don't know how viable rolling with a bunch of monsters is. Monsters are certainly much stronger, but they don't have the versatility of humans. I am thinking about trying a Ramza+Monster playthrough for myself, but haven't got around to it yet. So a word of caution to those willing to try such a thing: it's not tested, but it certainly is doable without excessive leveling, in theory.

    Heck, the only way you're going to get more than 550 HP by level 75 besides with Reis (Equip Armor) is with monsters, whose growths continue to make them stronger every level while humans are left with the same equipment they had at level 45 and weaker growth rates than monsters.

    On the spirit of the original game: Indeed, different doesn't always mean better. Still, paradoxically or hypocritically even, I injected the spirit of variety into the spirit of vanilla and shook (not stirred) it to its current form.  :P

    On skipping events: Yes, this feature is amazing, and I only put it in at the very end of Proper's development because I didn't know about it. This was not in any shape or form made by me, I simply put the ASM into my patch.

    Cheers,

    johnmyster
    « Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 07:00:19 PM by johnmyster »
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  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
    Toshiko
    Angel (Empress) [Posts: 1229]
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    • [August 20, 2017, 05:44:46 PM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #18 on: August 20, 2017, 05:44:46 PM »
    The title is a bit of a twitch, but I'm far more bothered by 16:9 screenshots of a 4:3 game. Well, and that you've made previously unavoidable attacks avoidable - I'm the queen of missing 90+% hits 12 consecutive times until game over, so those are my only crutch. :p

    That said, you've put a lot of effort into your presentation, and I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate someone working off the PlayStation version. Thanks for posting your work here!

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  • * Angel should quit being a lazy bitch
    <@Elric> I agree to that as well
    At the end of the day, are we not all trapped inside lemons?
    johnmyster [Posts: 30]
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    • [August 21, 2017, 12:00:12 AM]
    Re: Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT"
    « Reply #19 on: August 21, 2017, 12:00:12 AM »
    The title is a bit of a twitch, but I'm far more bothered by 16:9 screenshots of a 4:3 game. Well, and that you've made previously unavoidable attacks avoidable - I'm the queen of missing 90+% hits 12 consecutive times until game over, so those are my only crutch. :p

    That said, you've put a lot of effort into your presentation, and I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate someone working off the PlayStation version. Thanks for posting your work here!

    Thanks for your interest and reply. Sorry about the resolution, wasn't even something I considered that would bother people. :p

    Geomancy and Draw Out are still unevadeable. Thief and Lancer have innate concentrate, and most chances to hit are actually very much improved. Late game shields and mantles are also weaker. :p

    Anyways, if you end up giving it a go I'd love to hear what you think. Have a great day!

    -johnmyster

    • Modding version: PSX
  • FFT Proper v1.02 update released 8/31/2017!
    Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.
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