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The VK patch! Come and help us!

Started by karsten, March 14, 2008, 05:29:48 am

karsten

March 14, 2008, 05:29:48 am Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by karsten
A new patch is being worked on! Everybody's help will be appreciated :D

gomtuu

March 14, 2008, 07:53:16 am #1 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by gomtuu
Quote from: "karsten"- making monsters a real treat

Maybe it'd be more interesting if they were a real threat? :lol:

karsten

March 14, 2008, 07:57:05 am #2 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by karsten
ops  :roll:

Asmo X

March 14, 2008, 09:56:09 am #3 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Asmo X
I had a feeling some super-patch was in the pipeline that covered all of the discussions on this forum. Should be interesting.

karsten

March 14, 2008, 10:31:13 am #4 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by karsten
I'll start making a small overwiev so that people can start talking and suggesting.

Squire-none
Chemist-none
Knight-Level 2 Squire
Archer-Level 2 Squire
Priest-Level 2 Chemist
Wizard-Level 2 Chemist
Monk-Level 2 Knight
Thief-Level 2 Archer
Oracle-Level 2 Priest
Time Mage-Level 2 Wizard
Geomancer-Level 3 Monk
Lancer-Level 3 Thief
Mediator-Level 2 Oracle
Summoner-Level 2 Time Mage
Samurai-Level 3 Knight, Level 4 Monk, Level 2 Lancer
Ninja-Level 3 Archer, Level 4 Thief, Level 2 Geomancer
Calculator-Level 4 Priest, Level 4 Wizard, Level 3 Oracle, Level 3
Time Mage
Dancer(Female Only)-Level 4 Lancer, Level 4
Geomancer
Bard(Male Only)-Level 4 Summoner, Level 4 Mediator
Mime-Level 8 Squire, Level 8 Chemist, Level 4 Geomancer, Level 4
Lancer, level 4 Mediator, level 4 Summoner

so this is the regular state.

first of all let's list the classes that might be candidates to joing/swap in the troops.

I would mention:

Red Mage
Blue Mage
Necromancer
mistic knight.
Berserker

the classes that are the least interesting/useful are:

mediator
bard/dancer
mime

the classes that are too good as they are or broken in combos:

samurai
ninja
calculator

skills that need to be toned down/taken away:

hamedo
blade grasp
abandon
the move mpup/mp switch combo
2 swords with Knightly swords
Math skill
brave/faith modifying skills

did i forget something?

Austin

March 14, 2008, 03:52:14 pm #5 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Austin
You probably are missing something since there's so much stuff that needs to be reworked, but anyways. I think that replacing calculator with blue mage is enough for the generics (until we can add new spots at least). The other new classes can just come as special characters.

I don't have a problem with mediators, bards/dancers, or mimes with the way they are in the sigma patch. They all are capable of being useful at some point. Same with samurais, ninjas might need some sort of powering down, probably just slightly in PA.

Knight swords should be required two hands, and chaos sword still needs a power reduction, even with autoberserk on it. Blade grasp and math skill should just be banished to another dimension never to be seen again, unless we could make blade grasp something like 1/2 your brave. I'm fine with all the other skills, although mp up paired with switch can be cheap. I suppose it would be okay to get rid of move mp up, but I wouldn't want to unless we had to.

As for brave/faith alteration skills, I definitely don't want to do anything to them. If we could make it so brave/faith couldn't be changed permanently though I'd be all for it.
  • Modding version: PSX

Xifanie

March 14, 2008, 04:08:40 pm #6 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Xifanie
what does VK stands for? Very Karsten?

By the way, you might want a forum section or this can get messy.
  • Modding version: PSX
Love what you're seeing? https://supportus.ffhacktics.com/ 💜 it's really appreciated

Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful

Austin

March 14, 2008, 05:27:26 pm #7 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Austin
He said VK= Vincent/Karsten. Apparently you aren't cool enough to be included in the initials. :lol:
  • Modding version: PSX

Xifanie

March 14, 2008, 05:45:39 pm #8 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Xifanie
oops, I took that line for his signature :s
  • Modding version: PSX
Love what you're seeing? https://supportus.ffhacktics.com/ 💜 it's really appreciated

Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful

VincentCraven

March 14, 2008, 06:30:29 pm #9 Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 09:07:46 pm by VincentCraven
Karsten:  First and foremost, this patch is replacing FFT Sigma, regardless of what the name is, so I suggest that this thread be stickied in the FFT Sigma section.

Secondly, even though we are starting over from scratch, I believe that FFT Sigma had many good traits. However, since we are working together you'll need to look over the changes that I have previously made:

http://auritech.byethost13.com/viewtopic.php?p=774#774


Easiest thing would be to go through the list, change what you don't like, and send it to me, right?
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.

Austin

March 14, 2008, 09:48:07 pm #10 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Austin
Since this is going to replace it, why don't we just start working off Vincent's sigma patch? A lot of work as been put into it, and it already has a lot of good changes that we'd probably want anyways.
  • Modding version: PSX

huthutchuck

March 16, 2008, 09:33:24 pm #11 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by huthutchuck
Even though this is one of my favorite abilities, a lot of problems are had with two swords/ninja. maybe it should be removed altogether.  Let ninjas be special because of throw and their speed.  Don't diminish the power of katanas now that ninjas no longer have two swords.  It hurts me to say it, but that may be the only way to cure the two sword problem.  Maybe it can be replaced with inherent speed save.  Just a suggestion.

VincentCraven

March 16, 2008, 09:42:23 pm #12 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by VincentCraven
Eh? I'm not sure I understand you. Did you check that link whilst I was updating it or something? According to FFT Sigma, katana are not 2-Swordable, but are 2-Handable and Samurai have innate Two Hands. Ninja are weaker and Ninja Swords are weaker.

Conversely, may you have posted in the wrong section?


Karsten: Shall we move this thread to FFT Sigma section, or make a new section called "VK Patch"?
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.

trickstardude7

March 16, 2008, 09:58:13 pm #13 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by trickstardude7
i think it should be a new section because you worked hard on Sigma.

huthutchuck

March 16, 2008, 10:39:22 pm #14 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by huthutchuck
I thought this patch was starting off from scratch....I believe that the current sigma patch has done alot to balance the classes, but if we are starting off from the beginning, the same old complaints are going to come up, ala calculator to powerful, two swords/holy swordsman/drawout too good.  If the patch is starting from sigma, ignore my last post, but if not maybe an alternative would be to remove two swords.  Like I said, it is one of my favorite abilities, but I feel the majority comes before my own preferences.

karsten

March 17, 2008, 03:21:17 am #15 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by karsten
i haven't disappeared, just busy. since we'll start over from vincent's patch, i'll study everything over again.

karsten

March 17, 2008, 01:09:46 pm #16 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by karsten
so i've started checking the sigma patch. so, i would suggest these changes (to be debated, obviously):

Blade grasp is still a problem and so is brave/faith modification. My solution?
taking away all the skills that mod br/ft. that way blade grasp can be effective at MAX at 72%. strong, but not

broken.

also taking away the ways to lower faith makes magic more dangerous/people with blade grasp or mp switch less godly.


taking away the brave faith modification would make mediator a redundant class. We might fuse oracle with mediator

and free a slot for red mage (we have great sprites for it, right? :P

would still be strong, but not making you immortal.


another problematic skill is draw out. It's good, damn good. and it should be kept like that. What we need is to

balance it out, to make it a skill that won't be abused. Lowering MAs would make everything too weak. also raising

the katana's prices might not help much. so in the end i came out with this idea:

let's make ALL the katanas beside the first 2 rare poach prizes. what do you guys think? that would make poeple use

more poach too, and give all the katanas an air of preciousness.


for what concerns blue mage, i would go as follows:

equips staff, rod and knives. swords are too good with gather power.

skillset (deeply tested in my own patch):

choco cure
choco esuna
choco meteor (at high lvs will strice for less than 200dmg)
spirit of magic
thunder soul
aqua soul
wind soul
ice soul
blow fire
mimic titan
gather power
dischord (the skill that takes away positive status)
-add something else here-

this would make the unit versatile and not overpowered. Also we might consider innate monster skill/train?

concerning monsters the work seems good. maybe giving to lv2 and 3 bombs blow fire, can give them some extra range

and a way to cure better. driads and morbols need to get speed and height 2 attacks. maybe the morbol's ability lick

and goo can be made to have a range like a samurai sword, making them mildly effective.

i would change swordskills too. the mp used are too little. after all just one blow from those ones is enough to

change the battle completely. in my patch they went like this:


SWORDSKILLS

Stasis Sword - 20MP
Split Punch - 15MP
Crush Punch - 15MP
Lightning Stab - 35MP
Holy Explosion - 40MP

or maybe higher, i don't remember. this would make the orlandu's ( :P

guns can be broken too. is it possible for them not to have 100% accuracy? 5 gunners can kill almost everything on 8

square distance on most maps.

mmmh. next is beowulf. good, maybe to much. we might make him useful but less broken by exchanging his and zalbag's

skillset?

reis can be godly too. maybe some touches to her stats?

so far i can't think of anything else. remeber guys these are just my view on the topic and i'd like ALL of you to

elaborate and find suggestions!

huthutchuck

March 17, 2008, 02:35:52 pm #17 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by huthutchuck
Good info.  Concerning brave/faith manipulation, if human skills that modify brave and faith are removed will the monsters loose the ability to alter it as well.  Also what about the abilities cheer up and scream?  Without them, Ramza becomes a little bland.

trickstardude7

March 17, 2008, 03:32:17 pm #18 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by trickstardude7
hm for Archer perhaps make them have Leg and arm Aim also Tailwind? for Beowulf make him have a CT for everything perhaps ?

VincentCraven

March 17, 2008, 04:30:34 pm #19 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by VincentCraven
Brave/faith modification - Good idea. We'll have to get some replacement skills for some of the monsters. Replace Cheer Up with Invitation and Scream just lose its brave boost. We can just ignore the fact that it says '0Br' over Ramza's head...

As for making Oracle better, we can just give it Def Up. Fits well, right?  The skillset just needs higher accuracy. With Invitation given to Ramza and all br/fa mod skills removed, might as well just erase talk skill completely.

Ev/2 for all items could work, though we should scale the items (except mantles) so that the first are about the same and the last are half the regular evasion. The evasion will require a spot of tweaking. Speaking of items, are we able to override the duplication glitch or is that still a problem?

For katana, let's raise the price for all of them as well as what you have mentioned. If they are hard to get, no one will want to sell them at their current price.  I rarely poach, but making katana rare poach only sounds like a good plan.  Don't make Masamune or Chirijiraden rare poaches unless you plan on severely reducing their power.

Blue Mage, I have two questions: Can Blue Magic be used with other units? How are the monster stats and monster skills going to be adjusted?  Assuming you haven't addressed these issues already, Gather Power will make Knight/Samurai absolutely murderous and Blue Magic either will phail on Blue Mage or the monsters will 1HKO stuff.  As for innate Monster Skill and Train, sure.  Monster Skill is pretty sad anyway (we'll need to change its description if we are keeping it).

The skills, as you know, are rather glitchy on Blue Mage. I don't know about most skills, but did you require a suggestion for "-add something else here-"? How about Ultima2 just for kicks.  Unless, of course, we are not making the skills learnable Blue Mage style only.  

Which reminds me, Red Mage should replace Calculator and require 4 Black Mage and 4 White Mage.  Blue Mage should replace Mediator. Now, should Summoner and Blue Mage require lv3 or lv4 in the previous class (Time Mage/Oracle)?

Swordskills, idk about MP.  Night Sword will also require a boost in MP Cost, but since Gafgarion is using it early on, how about giving him a huge MPM and/or MPC boost?  We don't need him using Dark Sword just after one Night Sword.

And Orlandu really needs to NOT have either Lightning Stab or Holy Explosion, especially if he still has Night Sword.  I don't care that he's called T.G. Cid, he's completely overshadowing Agrias!  That old fart.
/rant

As for Archers, they are at the bottom of the tree for a reason. What I mean is, Archers are all about power and speed, not versatility. With a boost in those two stats (as well as perhaps Longbow and Crossbow power), Archer should be set.  If Archer gets innate Concentrate, then Arrow Guard should be easy to obtain.

Archer skillset: If Charge is boosted as I had done in FFT Sigma, their skillset should be fine.  I had Wezaleff pull off a Charge+20 on Gafgarion. All it requires is good timing (and Don't Move later on).

Guns are a problem? We should either make them be obtained later or just make them weaker.

Beowulf and Reis are too good? You sure? Hmmmm

In case I didn't say earlier, everything I have said here is completely open to debate. (Except nerfing Orlandu ofc... /rant)
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.