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[Old] Counter Throw stone?

Started by Dome, January 02, 2012, 05:27:06 am

Dome

January 02, 2012, 05:27:06 am Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 06:42:42 am by Dome
What would you think about replacing counter tackle with something...at least a bit better?
Counter tackle uses the skill in the "Dash"

Quote from: RavenThe unit will counter with whatever skill is in the Dash skill slot, using that skill's range as the legal range for Counter Tackle and applying anything that skill would proc/etc as normal...it casts whatever skill is in the Dash slot on the target when Countering if it would be legal to use that skill normally on them

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

HebrewToYou

I like it, although is it possible to create a "Counter Bullseye" skill instead?  Basically, it's a lightweight Hamedo that doesn't preempt an attack, but will guarantee 100% counter success rate (when triggered).  Just a thought...

Joseph Strife

Quote from: HebrewToYou on January 02, 2012, 11:23:21 am
I like it, although is it possible to create a "Counter Bullseye" skill instead?  Basically, it's a lightweight Hamedo that doesn't preempt an attack, but will guarantee 100% counter success rate (when triggered).  Just a thought...

This, but of course it would be more expensive to learn
Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...


Dome

Quote from: HebrewToYou on January 02, 2012, 11:23:21 am
I like it, although is it possible to create a "Counter Bullseye" skill instead?  Basically, it's a lightweight Hamedo that doesn't preempt an attack, but will guarantee 100% counter success rate (when triggered).  Just a thought...

It would cost 10 mp to "React"

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Joseph Strife

And that too, as far as i know we could not remove its MP cost for the reaction and leave it for the ability.
Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...


Dome

There's a workaround, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort
A counter attack that always hits 100% sounds very good, and would overshadow "Counter"

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Joseph Strife

Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...


Eternal

This is how I made Jinx in PW- when physically attacked, counter by landing a random debuff on the enemy. I just placed that skill over Dash's slot. :D

That aside, Counter Throw Stone seems fine.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Dome

Maybe I could "Buff" throw stone a bit
Instead of [Random number between 1 to 3]*PA, I could make the formula 3 * PA

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Joseph Strife

Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...


Dome

At least, it will do -decent- damage and will add KB at a range of 4.
Way better than counter tackle xd

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Is there a way to make a half-powered Fight, which ignores class, shield, and accessory evasion, and put that over Counter Dash?  Sort of a FFTA Blitz Counter, since that seems like what Hebrew and Joe were recommending.

What class will get the Revamped Counter Dash?  Because that should determine what the new ability does.  Like, if you have a Gambler, you could throw in an ability with a lot of random variables (like a Rafa/Malak/Holy Breath/Dark Whisper ability), and make it more random with Random status inflict.  Such an ability could utterly destroy the enemy, or it could just hit you every turn, for teh lulz.

Dome

This ability was meant to replace "Counter Tackle" so it will be a squire ability

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

So you need something which is not excessively powerful, but which must be fairly useful for all classes derived from the Squire, for the entire game, since all of those classes will have a good chance to equip that ability.

Have you considered a defensive ability?  Something which will, upon HP damage, self-target the Squire with something that restores a minor amount of HP and removes a few common debuffs?

HP Restore = 5 to 10 % of HP
Remove: Blind, Silence, Poison

RandMuadDib

It might try to target the enemy with the defensive ability, making it worse than useless
I will show you the power of SARDIIIIINES!!!!

Pickle Girl Fanboy

January 02, 2012, 03:04:24 pm #15 Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 03:26:10 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
It's easy enough to test.  Just copy "Heal" to "Throw Stone", patch it, equip it, and test it.  Just remember that the vanilla "Heal" doesn't restore HP.  In fact, I don't think any ability allows non-faith percentage healing, plus status infliction.  Lame.

RavenOfRazgriz

January 02, 2012, 03:34:10 pm #16 Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 06:03:35 am by Dome
It'll affect the enemy if the enemy is in range and a legal target, PGF.  The skill referenced by Counter Tackle will ALWAYS affect the enemy if the enemy is a legal target and in range, period.

Pickle Girl Fanboy

January 02, 2012, 03:48:04 pm #17 Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 04:22:40 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on January 02, 2012, 03:34:10 pm
It'll affect the enemy if the enemy is in range and a legal target, PGF.  The skill referenced by Counter Tackle will ALWAYS affect the enemy if the enemy is a legal target and in range, period.

This was verified by testing?  Linkage, if at all possible.  Not to be a dick, but I gotta ask.

RavenOfRazgriz

It's verified, yes, and if you read the explanation Dome quoted from me in the OP, it's pretty clear that's how it'd work from just reading that.  I'm not going out of my way to record someone using Counter Cure on an enemy though because my recording setup is mostly atrocious and it feels like a huge waste of time.

The other thing to remember with Counter Tackle is that it uses the Countergrasp flag to determine what it can and cannot Counter, so you most likely want a physically inclined skill in that slot if it's meant to be on a generic class.

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on January 02, 2012, 04:32:56 pm
It's verified, yes, and if you read the explanation Dome quoted from me in the OP, it's pretty clear that's how it'd work from just reading that.  I'm not going out of my way to record someone using Counter Cure on an enemy though because my recording setup is mostly atrocious and it feels like a huge waste of time.

The other thing to remember with Counter Tackle is that it uses the Countergrasp flag to determine what it can and cannot Counter, so you most likely want a physically inclined skill in that slot if it's meant to be on a generic class.

Just wanted verification, that's all.  And I'm the last person to barge into someone's thread and demand a video, since I can't even view RAM in PCSX-R, let alone make and apply a patch, and then record tests.

I'm looking at the FF+ master guide, trying to think of something useful for the Squire and all classes derived from it, which will work well against HP damage, has a bit of range to it, is not like all the other HP damage reactions, and is thematically what you'd expect from a Squire.

Here's an idea:
Name: Fight Dirty OR Dirty Trick OR Payback OR Counter Clod OR Hurl Clod
What it does: It's just like throw stone, except that it (maybe) causes no HP damage.  Instead, it causes Blind, and maybe stuns the enemy (reduces their CT by a %, or a static number).  If you want to be really hardcore, you could make a custom formula which randomly chooses from a bunch of different things, depending on terrain (or not, since that's veering into the Geomancers - ahem - terrain), since the contents of the clod varies depending on whatever is near the Squire's feet.  Possible effects, organized:
*minor HP damage, depending on PA of actor.
*knockback
*blind
*reduce CT
*silence (nothing like a mouthful of mud to shut you up)
*nothing (this is the bad roll)
Description: Upon HP damage, throw a clod of dirt at the enemies face.
My thoughts: It's hilarious, very random, not terribly doable (unless one of the ASM hackers wants to do it), and just the sort of thing a newbie would do when confronted with an armored phalanx of chocobo-mounted Lancers.