VK patch job tree discussions

[karsten]

all down here!

so far:

Squire-none
Knight-Level 3 Squire
Archer-Level 3 Squire
Monk-Level 3 Knight
Thief-Level 3 Archer
Geomancer-Level 4 Monk
Lancer-Level 4 Thief
Samurai-Level 4 Knight, Level 5 Monk, Level 2 Lancer
Ninja-Level 4 Archer, Level 5 Thief, Level 2 Geomancer

Chemist-none
Priest-Level 3 Chemist
Wizard-Level 3 Chemist
Oracle-Level 3 Priest
Time Mage-Level 3 Wizard
Blue Mage-Level 4 Oracle
Summoner-Level 4 Time Mage
Red Mage-Level 3 Priest, Level 3 Wizard, Level 2 Knight

Dancer*-Level 4 Lancer, Level 4 Geomancer
Bard*-Level 4 Summoner, Level 4 Blue Mage
Mime-Level 4 Geomancer, Level 4 Lancer, level 4 Blue Mage, level 4 Summoner

*Dancer is still female only, Bard still male only

[VincentCraven]

Here are the stats and innate abilities I propose (similar to FFT Sigma):

Code Select Expand

......   HPC...HPM...MPC..MPM...SpC...SpM...PAC..PAM...MAC..MAM.Mov..Jum..CEv
Squire.   10   100   13   075   100   100   50   100   50   080   4   3   10
Chemist   11   080   12   075   100   100   60   075   50   090   3   3   05
Knight.   08   160   15   070   100   100   35   120   60   070   3   3   10
Archer.   10   100   16   065   085   115   42   110   60   060   3   4   10
Monk...   09   150   13   080   100   110   40   120   55   080   3   4   20
Priest.   11   080   10   120   100   110   50   090   45   105   3   3   05
Wizard.   12   075   09   120   100   100   60   060   40   130   3   3   05
Time M.   12   075   10   120   100   100   65   050   42   115   1   1   05
Summon.   13   070   07   150   100   090   70   050   40   120   3   3   05
Thief..   10   090   16   050   075   125   45   100   60   060   4   4   25
Blue M.   10   100   11   110   100   100   50   090   42   110   3   3   15
Oracle.   12   075   10   110   100   100   60   050   45   110   3   3   05
Geoma..   10   110   11   095   100   100   45   110   50   105   4   3   10
Lancer.   10   120   16   050   090   110   40   110   50   050   3   4   15
Samurai   10   075   13   090   100   100   45   125   50   110   3   3   20
Ninja..   12   070   13   050   080   120   50   100   60   075   4   4   30
Red M..   10   105   11   105   100   100   48   090   48   100   3   3   10
Bard...   13   075   11   095   100   100   55   080   50   115   4   3   05
Dancer.   13   080   14   070   100   100   50   110   50   095   4   3   05
Mime...   06   200   20   050   100   120   35   120   40   115   4   4   05  
Other stuff
Squire - can equip everything
Chemist - equip: Robe
Knight - equip: Axe, Spear; cannot equip Robe
Archer - Concentrate
Priest - equip: Flail
Time Mage - Teleport
Thief - equip: Ninja Sword
Red Mage - Short Charge; equip: Sword, Rod, Staff, Shield, Robe, Armor, Helmet...
Oracle - Move in Water, Any Weather
Geomancer - Move on Lava, Half: Earth
Lancer - Ignore Height, cannot equip Shield, Robe
Samurai - Two Hands
Ninja - cannot equip Knife
Blue Mage - Monster Talk, Monster Skill; equip: Sword, Hat, Clothes, Robe...
Bard - immune: Silence, equip: Robe

[Austin]

I also propose innate magdef up for priest and innate secret hunt for thief along with all the above. Also I feel that monks should have the highest hpm/hpc in the game since they can only wear clothes.

[NeedsMoreNoise]

Squires shouldn't be able to equip Guns or Knight Swords.

[karsten]

Here are the stats and innate abilities I propose (similar to FFT Sigma):

Code Select Expand

......   HPC...HPM...MPC..MPM...SpC...SpM...PAC..PAM...MAC..MAM.Mov..Jum..CEv
Squire.   10   100   13   075   100   100   50   100   50   080   4   3   10
Chemist   11   080   12   075   100   100   60   075   50   090   3   3   05
Knight.   08   160   15   070   100   100   35   120   60   070   3   3   10
Archer.   10   100   16   065   085   115   42   110   60   060   3   4   10
Monk...   09   150   13   080   100   110   40   120   55   080   3   4   20
Priest.   11   080   10   120   100   110   50   090   45   105   3   3   05
Wizard.   12   075   09   120   100   100   60   060   40   130   3   3   05
Time M.   12   075   10   120   100   100   65   050   42   115   1   1   05
Summon.   13   070   07   150   100   090   70   050   40   120   3   3   05
Thief..   10   090   16   050   075   125   45   100   60   060   4   4   25
Blue M.   10   100   11   110   100   100   50   090   42   110   3   3   15
Oracle.   12   075   10   110   100   100   60   050   45   110   3   3   05
Geoma..   10   110   11   095   100   100   45   110   50   105   4   3   10
Lancer.   10   120   16   050   090   110   40   110   50   050   3   4   15
Samurai   10   075   13   090   100   100   45   125   50   110   3   3   20
Ninja..   12   070   13   050   080   120   50   100   60   075   4   4   30
Red M..   10   105   11   105   100   100   48   090   48   100   3   3   10
Bard...   13   075   11   095   100   100   55   080   50   115   4   3   05
Dancer.   13   080   14   070   100   100   50   110   50   095   4   3   05
Mime...   06   200   20   050   100   120   35   120   40   115   4   4   05  
Other stuff
Squire - can equip everything
Chemist - equip: Robe
Knight - equip: Axe, Spear; cannot equip Robe
Archer - Concentrate
Priest - equip: Flail
Time Mage - Teleport
Thief - equip: Ninja Sword
Red Mage - Short Charge; equip: Sword, Rod, Staff, Shield, Robe, Armor, Helmet...
Oracle - Move in Water, Any Weather
Geomancer - Move on Lava, Half: Earth
Lancer - Ignore Height, cannot equip Shield, Robe
Samurai - Two Hands
Ninja - cannot equip Knife
Blue Mage - Monster Talk, Monster Skill; equip: Sword, Hat, Clothes, Robe...
Bard - immune: Silence, equip: Robe

cool with me, but yes, i think that squires shouldn't be able to equip gun, bows, knightly swords, and maybe shields.

[VincentCraven]

Okay, but are you going to use a Squire over a Knight or an Archer anyway? I sure hope so, especially since its the only way males can wear ribbons or perfume. I can see a case for gun considering only... Chemist can use that now. Btw, does Chemist get [the support skill] Equip Gun?

Should anyone get MgDef Up or Def Up? Probably not. There was a problem with Secret Hunt, someone please refresh my memory. I think Monk may be okay with 2nd best HP (excluding the soft and squishy Mimes) unless we jack up HP bonuses for armor real high.

[Asmo X]

Squire equipping everything is great in every way. If you want Chemist to get more value out of the gun, swap the Chemist and Squire's move rating.

[Austin]

I think thieves, ninjas, bards, dancers, and mimes should be the only generic classes with 4 move. Everything else should have 3. Alternatively for squires how about taking armor and helmets off them. That way they aren't too tough with all their super magic guns, swords, ribbons, and smelly perfumes.

[Asmo X]

I don't have a problem with a Chemist moving 4. It's not a huge thing. But I'm really against any idea that reduces the Squire's niche. I.e, taking equipment from it.

[karsten]

Okay, but are you going to use a Squire over a Knight or an Archer anyway? I sure hope so, especially since its the only way males can wear ribbons or perfume. I can see a case for gun considering only... Chemist can use that now. Btw, does Chemist get [the support skill] Equip Gun?

absolutly. i would make the guns a chemist exclusive. and equip guns becames their support skill.

Should anyone get MgDef Up or Def Up? Probably not. There was a problem with Secret Hunt, someone please refresh my memory. I think Monk may be okay with 2nd best HP (excluding the soft and squishy Mimes) unless we jack up HP bonuses for armor real high.

i think that magic def and dep up are ok as supports. nobody should have them innate. i agree on hps.
   

Squire equipping everything is great in every way. If you want Chemist to get more value out of the gun, swap the Chemist and Squire's move rating.

adding movement to chemist would make the throw item skill less useful, so i would say no.
   

I think thieves, ninjas, bards, dancers, and mimes should be the only generic classes with 4 move. Everything else should have 3. Alternatively for squires how about taking armor and helmets off them. That way they aren't too tough with all their super magic guns, swords, ribbons, and smelly perfumes.

a squire with 3 movement might be an idea. after all the can equip almost everything, so if they'll have to use up the move +1 or +2 ability that won't hurt them.
      
   
       
      
   
   
Asmo X (Posts: 127)    Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:14 am
I don't have a problem with a Chemist moving 4. It's not a huge thing. But I'm really against any idea that reduces the Squire's niche. I.e, taking equipment from it.

[VincentCraven]

Why should Bards and Dancers have 4 Move while Geomancer gets 3? If Geomancer gets 3 Move, I'd say only Thief, Ninja and Mime get 4.

4 Move - Thief, Ninja, Mime
 
4 Jump - Archer, Thief, Lancer, Ninja, Mime

Is that how it should be?

[Asmo X]

4 mv on Chemist:

1. He's a medic. It's only fair

2. Problem with him only being "on par" with the other gun user? Not any more. His attacking ability with the gun is now one tile larger than the Squire (if he goes down to 3 mv). He is now the only character who needs no assistance from equipment or support abilities to have 4 move while being able to equip a gun.

3. Doesn't devalue throw item. His ability to do so has been expanded by one tile.

That's pretty much my case. Squire and Chemist can both equip guns without the Chemist having his territory invaded. And it goes to show the purpose of the new Squire: To be worse at using all of the equipment than the specialty classes but competing by being able to create novel combinations of equipment.

[Austin]

Why should Bards and Dancers have 4 Move while Geomancer gets 3?

They're meant to be able to run around so they have enough time to sing/dance. Besides, they don't exactly have much else going for them.

[huthutchuck]

Please consider maps when you do this.  Remember that movement is cut in half in the water.  I was in the story fight with Olan in Sigma, I had no one that could get to the roof to help out.  My main concern is Chocobo chasing.  If humans have move 3 and if some chocobos have move 9, it can be a long battle.

[Kourama]

Why not just give Bards and Dancers innate Fly? I also disagree with giving them 4 movement.

[VincentCraven]

^Ooo. That could work, but Fly is really good so we'd have to cut back a bit on stat boosts.

[Asmo X]

Actually huthutchuck might have a point. The new mv situation is great for balance and giving you a reason to ride chocobos but what about fighting them? The best a 3 mv characters can do now is 5 (battle/germinas boots and mv+1). The problem is, if you try and change the battle boots to add, say mv+2, you've essentially put that skill back in the game. And now Ninjas become fucking crazy again.

I'm going to suggest here, that Ninjas don't have 4 move. Why would they be one of the high mv characters anyway? It doesn't suit their class.  But I think that Geomancers should have 4. Ninjas are already the category winners in speed and C.Ev, right?

Based on the theme of the job, the 4 mv characters should be Chemist, Thief and Geo.

Back to the point, now you can make battle boots mv+2 without ninja stupidity. You still get an overall boost in mobility. Adding mv bonuses to other equipment might also be an option

[Austin]

Making the later boots in the game +2 would be a good change imo. By then when you can have +3 pa or reraise, those germinas boots aren't going to be very useful anymore.

[VincentCraven]

I'm going to suggest here, that Ninjas don't have 4 move. Why would they be one of the high mv characters anyway? It doesn't suit their class.  But I think that Geomancers should have 4. Ninjas are already the category winners in speed and C.Ev, right?

Well actually, I made Thief have a spot more speed than Ninja for that very reason (see wall of stats above), but you are right if you discount the fact that Ninja is one of the few classes whose skillset is based on movement range.

I'm not too big a fan of adding increased move boost to shoes; however, we may want to change the movement range a bit. Perhaps Chocobo should have a bit less range with better innate movement skills? Just remember: if a person can catch up to a Chocobo, riding one is no longer of use.

Besides, we always have guns and crossbows and such. I do see your concern, but I just don't think chasing down Chocobo will be too big of an issue. In fact, you might even need a Chocobo to catch one! And I wouldn't be too concerned about the usefulness of Germinas boots. As chuck points out, movement/range is very important for saving people.

Which reminds me, perhaps we should make Chocobo appear later so that you will be equipped (with Boco) to take them down?

[Austin]

Would there be a way to make so a person could immediately mount a chocobo when a battle starts? I'd probably do it more often if I didn't have to waste that turn every time I start a fight.