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flowoftime feedback thread

Started by flowoftime, March 09, 2014, 08:52:40 am

flowoftime

One more thing, mods.

Can you please allow us to manually control Guests such as Agrias in the next update?

Eternal's patch allow us to control Guests.

And when will the next update be released? It's been months...

Xifanie

Guests are not intended to be controllable and so will not be in future releases. You can, however, use them in random battles to help them catch up/power up if needed be.
  • Modding version: PSX
Love what you're seeing? https://supportus.ffhacktics.com/ 💜 it's really appreciated

Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful

Jumza

Quote from: flowoftime on March 09, 2014, 08:52:40 am
And when will the next update be released? It's been months...


Chapter 1 will be updated to (hopefully) it's final form when we release chapter 2. Elric is working hard to get the rest of the events done, and myself and a few others have some to do as well, but unfortunately that's not the only thing left to be done. Chapter 2 is coming, but it will take a little more time to make it that much better.
  • Modding version: PSX
Nyzer: Alma teleports out of her own possessed body.
Raijinili: Remember that you're telling a modding community that the game they love could use some fixing.

3lric

Eternals patch is a not a story patch. Please don't ask us to do something just because a vanilla mod does it. Jot5 was built the way it was
for a reason and we don't intend to change that.

The next release will be when Chapter 2 comes out
  • Modding version: PSX

flowoftime

No exact date?

BTW Is it just me or I'm the only one left here in this JOT5 section?

I only encounter you, mods/development team.

Where's everybody?

3lric

The site is slow lately.

I do not give due dates or ETAs until right before release, anyone that makes games or programs knows
why this is a bad idea, there is always something else that has to be done.
  • Modding version: PSX

Choto

The site has many more lurkers than posters..

We're also all people with jobs and lives that do this for fun. The amount of work that has to be done to make JoT5 the quality that it is, is immense even with a team. Life could always jump in and complicate things though, so it's logical to not make an exact date.


kyozo22

Yeah, as has been  said, projects like this involve multiple people giving up free time to commit to this. Asking for a release date is probably not the best thing, especially if th team were to rush it just to get it out 'on time.' (not that these guys would, there'd be quality checks etc going on, I just meant project teams in  general.

Some of us also aren't around cos we're playing the patches! :P
  • Modding version: WotL

flowoftime

Okay.

Sorry to bring this up but if you guys - Mods and Development Team - aren't going to give us any information such as Changelogs, Walkthrough, etc. How do you suppose to attract people to join this section? We need something to talk about in this section, right?

And you guys as the Administratives should take the first step to promote and invite/provoke people to join the board and make this section live. That can only be done if you provide something that could pique people interest.

I believe people lurking around here are eager for Changelogs, Walkthrough, Update, etc but since they found nothing, they just simply walk away.

BTW I'm working, too ya know. :P

Never mind my words. I'm just expressing my opinion. Sorry if it is a bother.

Soon I may leave the board, too just like the others did. I do hope this section could get traffics as many as possible and become more lively.

Good luck and thank you, guys for great patch. :cool:

I'll be a shadow that lurks around here waiting for Update. :P

I AM WATCHING!

Xifanie

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 06:57:24 amSorry to bring this up but if you guys - Mods and Development Team - aren't going to give us any information such as Changelogs, Walkthrough, etc. How do you suppose to attract people to join this section? We need something to talk about in this section, right?

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 06:57:24 amI believe people lurking around here are eager for Changelogs, Walkthrough, Update, etc but since they found nothing, they just simply walk away.

Creating changelogs would heavily affect Raven, who already has the most work of us all, which would considerably slow down future updates. Not only that, but JotF is freaking hella custom, there's no point in listing all the changes... it would be easier to list what -didn't- change.
I don't remember a gaming company ever providing Walkthroughs and such, that's the players' job.

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 06:57:24 amAnd you guys as the Administratives should take the first step to promote and invite/provoke people to join the board and make this section live. That can only be done if you provide something that could pique people interest.

I thought that was the mod's goal... You don't find JotF interesting enough?

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 06:57:24 amBTW I'm working, too ya know. :P

...good for you?

As a final note:
Yes, it's easy to ask for all these things. But for most people, the amount of work involved is the first thing that would make them run away for their life. It's also not that easy managing a team of people who aren't paid. It's "If you don't work, I'll hope you'll do it later" VS "If you don't work, I'll fire you". The most considerate thing for you to do would be to move your ass and do these things you ask for. Otherwise, it's pretty inconsiderate to ask us those.
  • Modding version: PSX
Love what you're seeing? https://supportus.ffhacktics.com/ 💜 it's really appreciated

Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful

formerdeathcorps

The problem is, for every person who wants to be babied with a walk-through, there's another person like me who seeks the novelty and doesn't want a walk-through precisely because it'll spoil the fun of having to think up solutions myself for battles.  I think Jot5's decision not to release an official walk-through is fair, especially since many of us are making videos of how to win for you to watch.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

3lric

  • Modding version: PSX

kyozo22

Quote from: Toshiko on March 10, 2014, 11:03:20 am
You want a changelog? Here's a changelog.

See those bugs you reported? Yeah, we fixed those. And other bugs we found ourselves.

Repeat. Ad nauseum.

You want a walkthrough? There are youtube videos out the ass. And a fan wiki that is actually pretty accurate. Stop insisting on Word From God as though you're entitled to it. You can bloody easily SEE what's missable just by opening it in Patcher and doing deductive reasoning.

Threatening to leave when all you've done is whine and complain and act like your view is The One True Way is a very empty threat, you know.


QFT.

Also,
Quote from: Xifanie on March 10, 2014, 09:16:49 am
Creating changelogs would heavily affect Raven, who already has the most work of us all, which would considerably slow down future updates. Not only that, but JotF is freaking hella custom, there's no point in listing all the changes... it would be easier to list what -didn't- change.
I don't remember a gaming company ever providing Walkthroughs and such, that's the players' job.
I thought that was the mod's goal... You don't find JotF interesting
Yes, it's easy to ask for all these things.


Actually, fuck it. What Elric said, just extended to all of you guys (Toshiko, Xifanie, Elric and FDC)

P.s perhaps these posts should be moved to the JoT5 Q & A Thread? It's kinda clogging up the bug report section. Plus, you know, all us lurkers might think you guys have done a horrible job with all these bugs whilst we're looking for our changelogs... :P
  • Modding version: WotL

flowoftime

@Xifanie:
I've stopped ask for walkthrough or anything related to patch mechanic since yesterday by the time I read Elric's post(s). I don't think I'll find user(s) here who will share/make a guide to this patch anytime soon considering it's almost a year since this JOT5 was released and FFT is outdated.

No guide besides JOT5 wikia for a year...

JOT5 is interesting for me, but the patch does have some annoying features FOR ME. I REPEAT FOR ME:
1. I could tolerate Gained JP Up is removed from most of the patch here in FF Hacktics or insanely derpy, but Limiting JP to 10 per Action is... lame... It will take years to Unlock Ninja Class and learned all the best skills. I dunno if there is any out there who want to waste their lives playing the patch under such condition just to make his characters match up to Sephiroth or Ganandorf. I wonder why did the mods usually say "You don't have a life or You have no life"? :lol:
2. Monster, both in Story and Random Battle is definitely broken, but the AI coding is somewhat stupid or should I say "sometimes". To equally match up your character with this broken Monster you need to:
A>Grind your "JP" not your "EXP" like hell, unlock the Tier 1 Job and learn best skills with 10 JP per Act condition.

OR

B>Abuse save and load states like I did(Assasinate and Finish Touch = 100% Non-Boss 1 ACT KILL). :lol:

OR

C>Make use of AI's stupidity and commence the "Hit and Run Strategy"(You hit from afar, provoke the enemy to come at you by their stupid AI Coding then gang-bang/rape them) which people in insanely derpy say "The Real Strategy".

Otherwise, this patch has many positive things:
1. Free game. *Two Thumbs* Up!
2. Good Story/Ideas. It's still not great, though...
3. Good Mechanic = Most Jobs, Skills and Stats are changed.
4. Great Sprite.
5. Good Enemy's Scaling.
6. Etc.


Lastly, I believe I never ask you to do my homework, didn't I? :P

I figure out that it would be useless for me or anyone here besides the Development Team to suggest any constructive idea, because in your mind/point of view the patch is already PERFECT and you always counter-reasoning any idea(I do read every thread here). So I see no point to ask you to do my homework. I don't say that your reasoning is bad. Your reasoning is good, but since you always reject any idea given by the users here, that logic comes to my mind.

You = Development Team.

I do agree with your "It's also not that easy managing a team of people who aren't paid." Tough luck, man...


@formerdeathcorps:
I don't bother myself to watch your or anyone's video of how to win here... I'm a veteran FFT player and I got the hang of most Vanilla FFT mechanic. I have my own way to win the Story Battle with "Dirty Tricks" or "The Real Strategy" bragged by insanely derpy players. :lol:

Simply put:
1. In Vanilla FFT Story Battle = Level does matters, Skill comes second.
2. In JOT5 Story Battle = It's Skill that matters. Thanks to the Balance Scaling.
3. In Both = the higher your level are, the more difficulties you'll encounter in Random Battle. Equipments go as Chapter progress, unless you bother to steal High Lv Human Enemy's equipments. Monster growth large HP, PA and MA as their level increase, while we rely on equipments.


OH CRAP! FOR A SHADOW WANNA BE, I BLABBER TOO MUCH!

DON'T MIND MY WORDS, WILL YA? ;)

flowoftime

Quote from: Toshiko on March 10, 2014, 11:03:20 am
You want a changelog? Here's a changelog.

See those bugs you reported? Yeah, we fixed those. And other bugs we found ourselves.

Repeat. Ad nauseum.

You want a walkthrough? There are youtube videos out the ass. And a fan wiki that is actually pretty accurate. Stop insisting on Word From God as though you're entitled to it. You can bloody easily SEE what's missable just by opening it in Patcher and doing deductive reasoning.

Threatening to leave when all you've done is whine and complain and act like your view is The One True Way is a very empty threat, you know.


I don't see a point why you butthurting my post.

I bear no ill mean, man.

You're overeacting.

I don't threatening you or anyone here to leave. I'm about to leave since I already finished the game yesterday and about to move into other games while waiting for the next update. If anyone here want to talk about the game's mechanic, I'll gladly comply and join the thread. But since there's nothing to talk about, why would I stay here?

Onisake

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
JOT5 is interesting for me, but the patch does have some annoying features FOR ME. I REPEAT FOR ME:
1. I could tolerate Gained JP Up is removed from most of the patch here in FF Hacktics or insanely derpy, but Limiting JP to 10 per Action is... lame... It will take years to Unlock Ninja Class and learned all the best skills. I dunno if there is any out there who want to waste their lives playing the patch under such condition just to make his characters match up to Sephiroth or Ganandorf. I wonder why did the mods usually say "You don't have a life or You have no life"? :lol:
2. Monster, both in Story and Random Battle is definitely broken, but the AI coding is somewhat stupid or should I say "sometimes". To equally match up your character with this broken Monster you need to:
A>Grind your "JP" not your "EXP" like hell, unlock the Tier 1 Job and learn best skills with 10 JP per Act condition.

OR

B>Abuse save and load states like I did(Assasinate and Finish Touch = 100% Non-Boss 1 ACT KILL). :lol:

OR

C>Make use of AI's stupidity and commence the "Hit and Run Strategy"(You hit from afar, provoke the enemy to come at you by their stupid AI Coding then gang-bang/rape them) which people in insanely derpy say "The Real Strategy".

Otherwise, this patch has many positive things:
1. Free game. *Two Thumbs* Up!
2. Good Story/Ideas. It's still not great, though...
3. Good Mechanic = Most Jobs, Skills and Stats are changed.
4. Great Sprite.
5. Good Enemy's Scaling.
6. Etc.


Lastly, I believe I never ask you to do my homework, didn't I? :P

I figure out that it would be useless for me or anyone here besides the Development Team to suggest any constructive idea, because in your mind/point of view the patch is already PERFECT and you always counter-reasoning any idea(I do read every thread here). So I see no point to ask you to do my homework. I don't say that your reasoning is bad. Your reasoning is good, but since you always reject any idea given by the users here, that logic comes to my mind.

You = Development Team.

I do agree with your "It's also not that easy managing a team of people who aren't paid." Tough luck, man...


@formerdeathcorps:
I don't bother myself to watch your or anyone's video of how to win here... I'm a veteran FFT player and I got the hang of most Vanilla FFT mechanic. I have my own way to win the Story Battle with "Dirty Tricks" or "The Real Strategy" bragged by insanely derpy players. :lol:

Simply put:
1. In Vanilla FFT Story Battle = Level does matters, Skill comes second.
2. In JOT5 Story Battle = It's Skill that matters. Thanks to the Balance Scaling.
3. In Both = the higher your level are, the more difficulties you'll encounter in Random Battle. Equipments go as Chapter progress, unless you bother to steal High Lv Human Enemy's equipments. Monster growth large HP, PA and MA as their level increase, while we rely on equipments.


OH CRAP! FOR A SHADOW WANNA BE, I BLABBER TOO MUCH!

DON'T MIND MY WORDS, WILL YA? ;)


This sums up my experience with the mod so far. it's good. but it could  have been great if balancing was taken seriously. I found myself playing certain battles because of my own tenacity, not because I was having fun. (that encounter with the 2 rangers, knight, and wizard all on chocobos...t(-.-t). Screw Sephiorth. THAT shit was hard. chocobo-cure spam on top of invigorate spam, and having poison spammed on me...not to mention all the enemies were 5+ levels above anyone in my party)

my biggest gripe with the mod, is that it somehow made one of the most pleasant things about the original game one of the most excruciatingly painful things in this mod.

And that is gaining new abilities and making new character builds.

Suggestions:

Monster skills should have MP costs. Everytime I see a chocobo I have to  bumrush it so it doesn't spam choco-cure on everything making my life a living hell. at least with enemy wizards/priests I can make an attempt to win a battle of attrition.

I agree that JP gains in the original were a little too high. but what is current is way too low. balance can be achieved. I have faith in you. you did such a wonderful job scaling enemy encounters. why the hell didn't you do it for JP gains?

Rather than limit player choice via xp scaling and jp rate, I'd rather see limited maximum JP per job. This would also allow you to add an ability to 'reset' JP and abilities once you hit max job level/JP saturation.




Xifanie

I can't say I enjoy the game in terms of gameplay, but then again, I can't touch that.

10JP per action is a real nightmare indeed. Even if you consider shared JP, that's a potential of up to 18JP for everyone in one action, whoo-. (excluding guests)
Raven's logic behind this was that you'd have access to higher tier job at the end of ch4 if the only characters you use are the 5 and only focus on unlocking jobs... or something.

As it stands, monsters can NOT have MP costs. They are hardcoded that way. So we'd need an ASM to undo it. I can't say I'm against the idea, but my opinion hardly matters.

You have to understand that Raven is in charge of the gameplay, and because he hates how FFT: Arena turned out, he won't let anyone butt in. If he doesn't agree with you, well, tough shit.

I honestly couldn't go through the game without cheating... I don't have that kind of patience. I praise those who do. I'm a tester and I've never beaten ch1 legit.
  • Modding version: PSX
Love what you're seeing? https://supportus.ffhacktics.com/ 💜 it's really appreciated

Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful

3lric

First off,
No one claimed the mod was perfect, nor do we reject ALL ideas mentioned by members here, as you claimed,
the game has changed a lot from it's original release, which was MUCH harder. (which is why Jot5: Developers Edition will
eventually be released)

Second,
Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
@formerdeathcorps:
I don't bother myself to watch your or anyone's video of how to win here... I'm a veteran FFT player and I got the hang of most Vanilla FFT mechanic. I have my own way to win the Story Battle with "Dirty Tricks" or "The Real Strategy" bragged by insanely derpy players. :lol:


You reeeeallly confuse me here... First you want a walkthrough and gaming tips... Then you don't want to watch a LP (because THAT IS WHAT AN LP IS)
because you have your own way of doing things? What?
(And why do you keep bringing up ID? This is not ID, this is FFH, 2 completely different communities...)

Third,
Still not seeing the issue here at all, it has been stated since before release that we would never provide these things, collectively we have had well
over 10,000 downloads of Jot5. If one of those people has not made a guide or walkthrough or whatever you are looking for/not looking for (?), aren't
they who you should be talking to? I mean, the point is, we MADE the game, do we really need to play it for you too?

As for the battle mechanic stuff, I'll leave that to Raven
  • Modding version: PSX

Advent

March 10, 2014, 06:43:11 pm #18 Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 06:55:19 pm by Advent
I rarely post here, but I was directed to this thread by a friend of mine who promised lulz. I wasn't disappointed.

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
1. I could tolerate Gained JP Up is removed from most of the patch here in FF Hacktics or insanely derpy, but Limiting JP to 10 per Action is... lame... It will take years to Unlock Ninja Class and learned all the best skills. I dunno if there is any out there who want to waste their lives playing the patch under such condition just to make his characters match up to Sephiroth or Ganandorf. I wonder why did the mods usually say "You don't have a life or You have no life"? :lol:


Maybe this is just me, but it doesn't seem very feasible to be able to unlock every single job class and every single ability during Chapter 1 of an FFT mod. Correct me if I am wrong.

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
2. Monster, both in Story and Random Battle is definitely broken, but the AI coding is somewhat stupid or should I say "sometimes". To equally match up your character with this broken Monster you need to:
A>Grind your "JP" not your "EXP" like hell, unlock the Tier 1 Job and learn best skills with 10 JP per Act condition.

OR

B>Abuse save and load states like I did(Assasinate and Finish Touch = 100% Non-Boss 1 ACT KILL). :lol:

OR

C>Make use of AI's stupidity and commence the "Hit and Run Strategy"(You hit from afar, provoke the enemy to come at you by their stupid AI Coding then gang-bang/rape them) which people in insanely derpy say "The Real Strategy".


Few things wrong with this train of thought, but the largest flaw (by far) is that you're assuming you have the same limitations the enemy does. You have something they don't have: it's called a human brain. No, this isn't a petty stab at your intelligence, I'm being serious.

I also wasn't going to comment on this particular part of your post, but your opinion regarding what we at insanely derpy call "The Real Strategy" is flawed, because it simply doesn't exist. Lots of people have a wide array of strategies for any given fight (I'm not talking about just 1.3; this extends to Jot5 and other FFT mods as well).

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
I figure out that it would be useless for me or anyone here besides the Development Team to suggest any constructive idea, because in your mind/point of view the patch is already PERFECT and you always counter-reasoning any idea(I do read every thread here). So I see no point to ask you to do my homework. I don't say that your reasoning is bad. Your reasoning is good, but since you always reject any idea given by the users here, that logic comes to my mind.


As someone who has personally had conversations (regarding bugs, critiques, and what have you) with Raven one on one regarding Jot5 shortly after the Chapter 1 release, you're full of shit.

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
I don't bother myself to watch your or anyone's video of how to win here... I'm a veteran FFT player and I got the hang of most Vanilla FFT mechanic. I have my own way to win the Story Battle with "Dirty Tricks" or "The Real Strategy" bragged by insanely derpy players. :lol:


Forgive me if I'm not convinced. I'll say again that you will not find anyone representative of insanely derpy that will ever brag about "The Real Strategy" simply because there isn't one.

Stann

Quote from: flowoftime on March 10, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
C>Make use of AI's stupidity and commence the "Hit and Run Strategy"(You hit from afar, provoke the enemy to come at you by their stupid AI Coding then gang-bang/rape them) which people in insanely derpy say "The Real Strategy".


You clearly haven't read my posts or watched my videos, or you would be very confused as to what "The Real Strategy" is. (Hint: It involves shooting Ramza with arrows while he's charging Meltdown next to Algus)