[Archael]

I will agree that I was harsh and nasty as hell to that person as soon as I figured out who they were (KrazyKlyde)

My actions were too extreme, trolling her for pics and all... you guys are right



but the ban is still justified and I am glad Zodiac saw through all her BS

[Angel]

Granted, I realize that in there being no clearly defined rules the administration is free to do whatever they wish on a case-by-case basis, but I don't see how it's justified. If they're not the same person, then none of what transpired is fair in any way whatsoever, and you cannot prove that they are the same person any better than you can disprove it.

I don't believe them to be one in the same. If you consider their reactions, Klyde dropped everything and ran when things went sour. Jukain shows complete disregard for your opinion of her, and is unwilling to relent on her attempts to be re-accepted into the community.

Also, I have not seen any instance of trolling, unless you would like to construe the multi-party debate on sexual infidelity she participated in as such. Anything else you could hold against her in that regard was provoked.

Even if you are convinced they are the same person, what does it matter? If Jukain leaves and then comes back on another account with the same IP, then I'd be more willing to accept your stance, certainly. But considering the above, and considering Jukain has done everything in her power to, at your request no less, validate her claims as to who she really is, I can't agree with it.

[Archael]

you cannot prove that they are the same person

Zodiac checked their IP's, locations both on this site and via MSN

Jukain loaded up KrazyKlyde's email (the email KK used to register to FFH) while she was talking to Zodiac, and both e-mail accounts were on MSN, at the same time, from the same network

If you consider their reactions, Klyde dropped everything and ran when things went sour.

this is false

Klyde didn't drop everything and run

the Jukain account was created 3 days after KK stopped posting

that's what KK did

If Jukain leaves and then comes back on another account with the same IP, then I'd be more willing to accept your stance,

That is exactly what happened... except it was KrazyKlyde who left, and then came back ON THE SAME IP, ON ANOTHER ACCOUNT called Jukain

It won't happen again, though, because the IP is now banned from chat and from this site, so she cannot leave and come back on another account with the same IP

But considering the above, and considering Jukain has done everything in her power to,

like Lasting Dawn said

would YOU admit to being KK after you attempted to start over with a new name from the same IP?

Jukain wouldn't

[tithin]

holy shit it's the internet

[DarthPaul]

holy shit it's the internet

I think this philosophical tithin quote says it all and so much more.

[CidIII]

Maybe Voldemort did go a bit too far.

But, there is no need to get overly political correct about every little issue in the Spam section, now in this instance it might have been warranted. However, other times I have seen people spaz out about something when obviously it is a joke. For goodness sake can't we all just take a step back and laugh at each other, without some Nazis jumping down our throat for not being politically correct enough? I don't need people on here telling me that I am racist or chauvinistic just for satirizing societal ignorance, when clearly I am not.

And, I doubt Voldemort needs 5 people to post the essentially the same thing for him to understand that he went overboard.

[Angel]

and both e-mail accounts were on MSN, at the same time, from the same network

Having both accounts signed into MSN at the same time is actually more of an argument in favor of them being two unique people. Not a solid one, but moreso than the alternative. Were the two MSN accounts resolved to the exact same IP?

[Archael]

Were the two MSN accounts resolved to the exact same IP?

yeah

that's when zodiac just said fuck this and decided to ban

too obvious

[gojoe]

i need to stop drinking white tea

[Cheetah]

Thank you for admitting that you went overboard Voldemort. It isn't easy to do and I  appreciate it as I am sure other members of the board do too.

As to the banning of Jukain, I'm not seeing the reason to argue it. I just hope that these things can be dealt with more tact in the future.

[gojoe]

or everyone else could start drinking white tea

[Bastard Poetry]

CidIII, I am sorry for labeling you like that.

The problem is that you guys want the Spam board to be lulzy, yet when real drama occurs in chat, people keep posting it here to laugh about it. Some of us still believe that FFH was a community built on respect, creative pursuits and support, and it angers us to see it turn into this; we see this immature drama, and we can't help but express our outrage. The accused fight back, to justify their actions, and the rest of the onlookers throw their lulzy spam humor in the middle of it, and it is unfortunately NOT the best timing on their part, when real drama has already broken out.

I've said it before, that I used to be a severe addict to 4chan. Some of the greatest and funniest stuff I've ever seen in my life come from there, and I'm all for the lulz. Unfortunately, it was too addicting, and I needed to break myself off from it in order to focus on various priorities in my life. So I don't consider myself a PC Nazi. The jokes are great, but I have a harder time accepting them when they occur outside of Spam (even if the chatlogs are posted in Spam later) or 4chan itself.

You guys need to understand that the reason I'm a "carebear" like this, the reason I play Devil's Advocate (although in this case, I think the wrong devil was applied to the phrase, as far as what my stance was), and the reason I spoil all of your fun is because I put too much of myself into my love of this community. I'm at a place in my life where I absolutely have to absorb and promote positive things, like the shamrock thing I'm doing lately, because the sheer amount of rage, stress and anxiety that I've been loaded with in the last year or so is causing me to only sleep 1-2 hours per night on average, and my health is declining.

I've had too many years of this anxiety, which I used to deal with by "venting" or, in other words, being a complete asshole to everyone around me. I'm making strong efforts to be a better person these days, and I'm taking steps towards improving my mental health.

So my apologies for making anyone feel bad, or guilty, or whatever. If this isn't the place for it, then fucking stop posting unfunny chatlogs here. If Jukain really was as bad as you guys say she was, and if anyone else gets that bad later on, deal with them privately, rather than making a public spectacle of cruelty.

[DarthPaul]

I too am a "carebear" because I used to hurt people (both physically and emotionally) for fun.

After a while that type of lifestyle gets to you and suddenly you hate to see anyone hurt.

It doesn't matter if they deserve it or not.

What I'm trying to say is try and use common sense as to what is a perl and what should never be brought up again.

[SentinalBlade]

BP your words are more true than you know.

We all love this community and want it to be safe and to grow and to prosper. like our own child if you will

Like an ignorrant mother looking after her baby when the neighbor kids gone stupid, we tend to outcast people who would infect the community. We should however break away from that. It isnt helping the community grow, its only letting the same people that are still in mature slightly.

IF your a noob, and ask a weird question, you dont deserve a confusing answer or to be flammed. I got pissed at wareya for this, cause of what he did to samurai...instead of correcting himself though(he says he was saying random things into chat and it was jsut bad timing) i had to step in 10 minutes later and answer samurai's question. that isnt the type of community this needs to be.

If you lie once, it shouldnt be taken so far out of hand you lie more times and are baited into other things that can get you banned. dont get me wrong, Jukain said her share of shit after things got off the ground, but Voldemort kinda provoked her. and he does have that way about him, i do wish i could explain this, but if youve observed his arguements, he is stubborn without absolute proof.

Its not that you went to far on your words BP, i feel the same way. The only person who needed a ban absolutly was MAgitek, but thats the only person to have wronged this community into banning her. This may have gone a bit far, and much more banning and we wont have a community left to promote, or even to have newcomers.

And on a side note

@CidIII
HOLY SHIT YOU SAID SOMETHING SERIOUS

<3 lol

[dwib]

I do understand most of us went too far with the jokes (me included) but frankly a lying troll who is soon to be banned has earned no sympathy from me. I apologize to those in this forum I have disgusted by posting this chat log into the perls, but in no way do I feel remorse for Jukain. I was horribly disgusted and seriously pissed about how insistent she was upon lying. I have absolutely zero tolerance for someone like that. If you post a fake picture of you being Elidibs and fess up to it, I will think you are dumb. If you create a new account and continue lying about everything, I will flame you. That's how it goes, whether we stepped over the line or not. If we disagree on this subject, let's forget about it and agree and get along elsewhere, such as discussing FFT hacking. Military personnel may not like their commanding officer or fellow troops, but they share the same goal. Let's fucking get over it.

[Asmo X]

The problem with the "carebears" is that you don't do anything. All you fuckers do is make huge grandiose statements. Once again, while you guys were posting about your outrage, I looked at Zodiac's evidence and proved that some of it was bullshit. Maybe you guys should concentrate less on making massive posts and more on understanding the situation properly and seeing what you can do about it.

Also, can we please stop calling this a troll? It's obvious she was trying to make a new start after a shitty first impression. Also, Zodiac's ban has to do with denying the alt, not making it in the first place. The appropriateness of the ban is exactly proportional to how much he is annoyed by the denial and everyone else should really stop weighing the fuck in on it. The way some of you goaded the situation in the chatlog made this situation completely irreversible.

[Bastard Poetry]

In other words, you toiled away meticulously to uncover a conclusion that only took us two seconds to realize before we began our grandiose speeches to knock some fucking sense and humanity into some douchebag heads.

Great investigating there, Asmo.

[tithin]

In other words, you toiled away meticulously to uncover a conclusion that only took us two seconds to realize before we began our grandiose speeches to knock some fucking sense and humanity into some douchebag heads.

Great investigating there, Asmo.

Please provide evidence.

I'm doing my best to remain objective here, but at least he is actively investigating the evidence provided, rather than jumping to conclusions.

[Asmo X]

Explain how you came to your conclusion BP. tia

[Archael]

In other words, you toiled away meticulously to uncover a conclusion that only took us two seconds to realize before we began

I don't get this. What conclusions did you reach about this? You just saw a chatlog and started playing devil's. (And upon further reading of your posts last night, the reason you did it was because of your own personal reasons, not because of the evidence you have, which is nothing but dwib's chatlog, really.)

BP you didn't reach any conclusions based on any evidence except "you guys were being too harsh".

I discovered the evidence and later Zodiac confirmed it to be 100% on this site and MSN. That is why he banned. Zodiac didn't ban because I trolled her, or because anyone was "in the mood to 4chan lulz" anyone else. You should know better than anyone that Zodiac listens to himself when he makes decisions like this, and no one else but himself.

Asmo's right about the carebear thing btw. You might not like the people who get absolutely angry at liars on this site like me and dwib, but the fact is, if no one says anything about anyone, nothing would ever happen.

I understand I got out of line with the rage and the trolling, and I can understand why some people feel that is taking it too far.. it probably was.

However rest assured Zodiac banned her for a reason, and the reason wasn't because he felt like hurting someone else, or because any of us want to be "evil". He did it based on evidence, which was right there, in everyone's face, and the person kept lying over and over about it just to save face.

Now please stop pretending like it happened otherwise.

I'm at a place in my life where I absolutely have to absorb and promote positive things, like the shamrock thing I'm doing lately, because the sheer amount of rage, stress and anxiety that I've been loaded with in the last year or so is causing me to only sleep 1-2 hours per night on average, and my health is declining.

I mean it with the utmost respect when I say this, but if things like this (drama) are such a bother to you, then perhaps you should avoid these situations and these topics.

I'm not saying they are good topics, or good situations, but they are just bound to happen in any kind of community (especially a growing one), like it or not, it's unavoidable.

Like I said before, Zodiac doesn't ban because of the lulz. He bans because he was being lied to while he had evidence right in front of him.

I've said it before, that I used to be a severe addict to 4chan. Some of the greatest and funniest stuff I've ever seen in my life come from there, and I'm all for the lulz. Unfortunately, it was too addicting, and I needed to break myself off from it in order to focus on various priorities in my life

Perhaps you feel like we are also going down your same path with the "lulz" or something, and you feel people who troll others for fun need to change or something? I don't get how your reversal of lifestyle is relevant, but I can understand you dislike drama and confrontations now unlike you did before. So I can understand you disagreeing with what I did to Jukain out of anger, and that is fine. But the ultimate conclusion to all of this was Zodiac's decision to ban, which was not based on lulz, or trolling, or anything else, but based on evidence.

To summarize; Zodiac did have evidence to come to conclusions, and he did.

Everyone else is just getting personally involved IMO. (Myself included)

And now: