Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => Topic started by: VincentCraven on October 24, 2007, 11:04:33 pm

Title: Calculator -> Blue Mage
Post by: VincentCraven on October 24, 2007, 11:04:33 pm
Trying to get something started. I find some problems with v1.2 myself, but I'd like to know what others think before I launch a new patch.
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on October 24, 2007, 11:25:52 pm
Blue Mage...

with prerequisites like lvl4 (or 3) WM/BM.

Calc with low level spells would do too but I always found Math Skill to be a dumb way of attacking, even if effective.
Title:
Post by: karsten on October 25, 2007, 06:55:45 am
blue mage have my vote to! :)

actually we should make a topic with suggestion on how to change all the classes starting from chemists and squire up to mime... what to change, what to keep what to take out.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 25, 2007, 07:47:45 am
Sounds like its blue mage
Title:
Post by: Asmo X on October 25, 2007, 10:17:08 am
Calc: I'm definitely in agreement with Blue Mage but I don't think there should be in-battle learning.

Squires: Need to have their knockback ability refined somehow. It's their "thing". If the knockback formula can't be changed maybe add some more knockback skills?
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on October 27, 2007, 09:43:36 pm
If you add a Blue Mage...

Make it so that he only get Non MA dependant skills.

Stuff like Giga Flare would be laughtable on humans.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 27, 2007, 10:17:40 pm
Or I could just readjust the formula and monster stats.  Giga Flare was actually decent without changes (~100 damage mid Chapter 3), but it was like Geomancy... without the status effects.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on October 27, 2007, 11:22:30 pm
"Just" adjust formulas? ¬¬

If you make them good on humans by just changing formula, they will be WTFPWNT on monsters.

You'll have to change every single monster stats, taking off their "get better with level" thing, as they wouldn't really change, like humans, by leveling.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 27, 2007, 11:27:53 pm
QuoteOr I could just readjust the formula and monster stats.

AND monster stats, like I said: I know. The monsters would probably be better than Blue Mage at using the abilities, but there are a lot of issues that come with giving a human monster skills. Turn Punch is kinda glitchy. How so? 1 hit... pause... 1 hit... pause... 1 hit. I dunno why. And most abilities make the Blue Mage wield a dagger whilst using the ability even when I had an Iron fan equipped.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on October 27, 2007, 11:50:34 pm
for some reason I didn't read the "and monster stats" part >_>

I remember listing some skills that would do nice.

Most stuff are %

Off Memory:
Choco Esuna
Poison nail
Goblin Punch
Self Destruct
Throw Spirit (ranged punch!)
Hurricane
Triple Breath
Look of Devil
Beak
Mind Blast
Protect Spirit
Bad Breath
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 28, 2007, 12:25:32 am
Granted, I'm sure it's to have a decent set without using MA* X abilities. I could just have Giga Flare as is, except it won't cost too much because Giga Flare is going to be a fairly weak attack coming from a unit with ~12-15 MA. Still a pretty good ability, it's like an instant weak summon that doesn't use MP... and has no vertical tolerance.

Wait a minute... should I make these abilities use MP? I know all of you voted for Blue Mage up to this point, the only vote that wasn't for it was mine, so I'd like to hear what you had in mind for this new class.

[Edit: XD to the person who voted for original]
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on October 28, 2007, 01:59:09 am
I tried not getting more than one skill from the same family...

Hurricane got that.

No MP.
Title:
Post by: karsten on October 28, 2007, 05:25:08 am
i think that adding level blast , dischord (the ability that takes off positive status from enemies) and maybe calm spirit  to the list might be nice, and also i think that just a few abilities should have a low or zero MP costs...

also i was thinking that you might want to give blue mage HIGH MA attribute, but next to zero or zero Mp growth and multipliers, so that it can use monster skills efficiently and not being exploited as an uber-mage.... what do you think about this?
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on October 28, 2007, 06:02:47 am
Bad Idea, some items grant a good amount of MP.
Title:
Post by: Chrona on October 28, 2007, 10:08:19 am
That would be nice, just let me put Draw Out on it =p

You could make it a specialty mage that can ONLY use Blue Magic maybe. Is it possible to give a class a dual skillset? If so, you could set it so second is ALWAYS something like...Talk skill, with Monster Talk/Skill and Train perhaps.

However, the thing about monster MA is the crazy high growth. That could probably be fixed by giving monsters lower growth and higher multiplier, and giving Blue Mage all around decent MA growth (so you don't have to be Dragoner or Mime to get MA) and a high multiplier, with the inability of using a secondary skillset, or to have a second one built in somehow.

Well Talk Skill with high MA would always hit I bet...meh whatever, I guess that No Skillset would do, like what Mimes have
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 28, 2007, 10:27:05 am
MP cost, negative then.
There is a possibility to have Blue Mage equip no clothes etc., but as Chrona said, Draw Out is still a problem.

Chrona: Right now I'm using philsov's game as a base, so Wizard etc. has good MA growth. I would have to vote against Talk Skill, just because it makes Blue Mage too dependent on Mediator. No secondary and be a specialty mage may work.
Title:
Post by: Chrona on October 28, 2007, 11:09:03 am
Yeah, I guess that normal Blue Mage and nothing else would work best.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 28, 2007, 06:15:52 pm
I've done research, and if I were to make Blue Magic similar to previous final fantasy games, it would look something like this:
I noticed that mighty guard was in every blue mage set, but wall is from White Magic. What do you guys think of this set? Also Damage>MP came up a few times.

Just throwing this out there.
Title:
Post by: Chrona on October 28, 2007, 08:10:54 pm
Spirit of Life would need to be toned up a little

Blood Suck would be funner really

Why not fuse Clam Spirit and Protect Spirit? It would make the monster itself a little more useful, and give you a Wall effect
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on October 28, 2007, 08:20:56 pm
Mmmm, creating mighty guard would be easy but it would need a crazy MP cost. Like 64MP in FFVII. And 2v0.

I'd rather have Blaster than Blood Suck personally.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 28, 2007, 09:02:19 pm
Spirit of Life (White Wind) definitely could use a boost. Fusion of Clam and Protect Spirit is also a nice way to make Mighty Guard. "Big Guard" (FFVII) is probably too powerful for this game, as it includes Haste.

Blood Suck has 25% chance to add: Blood Suck. I think I'd prefer Blaster too, just because if I made the enemy blood suck then he may make me blood suck on his turn.

I'll throw this set together and see how it looks in game.
Title:
Post by: Prinygod on October 30, 2007, 01:59:19 am
Poison Nail
Goblin Punch
Death Sentence
Self Destruct
Bad Breath
Choco Esuna
Level Blast
Hurricane
Drain Touch/Blood Suck
Life Spirit
Oink
Wall
Fire Breath
Giga Flare


some problems here, first of its very exploitable. For example chantage + Self Destruct. Its also too powerful you have healing, stats cure, status adding, 100% revive that ignores faith has better vtolerance than revive, and has a formula of 70+Ma. Hurricane is a super demi. All with no mp cost. And monsters will never be used again (as if they ever were in the first place)
Title:
Post by: karsten on October 30, 2007, 05:48:14 am
Quote from: "Prinygod"Poison Nail
Goblin Punch
Death Sentence
Self Destruct
Bad Breath
Choco Esuna
Level Blast
Hurricane
Drain Touch/Blood Suck
Life Spirit
Oink
Wall
Fire Breath
Giga Flare


some problems here, first of its very exploitable. For example chantage + Self Destruct. Its also too powerful you have healing, stats cure, status adding, 100% revive that ignores faith has better vtolerance than revive, and has a formula of 70+Ma. Hurricane is a super demi. All with no mp cost. And monsters will never be used again (as if they ever were in the first place)

i think that chantage now give you just INITIAL reraise, not ALWAYS re-raise
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on October 30, 2007, 06:31:08 pm
Oh don't worry, that was just a set that reflected old Blue Mages. Because of the nature of this game...

1) Oink will either be seriously slashed or removed. I'm leaning toward removing it though.
2) Hurricane is being replaced by something like... Triple Bracelet (Breath)
3) Because this skills are monster skills, they MA*X abilities aren't too potent. Except maybe Giga Flare, which is deadly on the Behemoth

I haven't posted my changes yet, but the perfumes have either been toned down, or given a status that hinders their brokenness.

If monsters were never used in the first place, this class won't change a thing. However, I am taking measures to make monsters actually useful. That's one of the things I (or my testers) will look for in the beta version.

Wish I could work on this today, but I has some... stuff to do.
Title:
Post by: Chrona on October 30, 2007, 07:02:34 pm
Mind posting your current changes? I could give my thoughts and all, we could possibly come up with some balanced ideas =)
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on October 30, 2007, 10:11:08 pm
Seriosly, Tiamat is stronger (or as strong as) any beefed Generic, and most specials.

Still, people hardly ever use them.

Reason? Don't know... Maybe, too hard to get?
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 01, 2007, 08:55:32 am
Current Set
Goblin Punch - (PA +80)% success
Fire Bracelet - MA*10
Wind Soul
Mimic Titan
Choco Esuna
Clam Spirit - 2v2, (MA +60)% success
Beaking
Death Sentence
Level Blast
Nose Bracelet - (MA +70)%
Blaster - (MA +40)% success
Bad Bracelet
Drain Touch
Self Destruct
Dark Whisper
Giga Flare - MA*16
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on November 01, 2007, 04:41:39 pm
nonononono not triple breath, it's so broken. :S
AND a very effective zodiac killer.

I liked the idea with 1 skill for each monster type.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 01, 2007, 05:27:13 pm
Whoops. Did not think of that. But what would I take from Skeletons, Wind Soul? I guess I could do that.
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 01, 2007, 05:28:55 pm
Yeah, powered up Wind Soul. One of the only Wind elemental attacks really. Make it stronger than Giga Flare, since it only hits one panel, but not by much
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 01, 2007, 05:31:03 pm
Okay, I'll set up a new set with one from each. How powerful should Giga Flare be? I'm starting to think MA*16 is a bit too potent. It's like a Draw Out with range, though it doesn't discriminate and currently has 0 vertical tolerance.

Btw, if Triple Breath is broken, should I remove it from the game entirely?

[Edit: Whoops, can't believe I actually left off Self-Destruct! Is fixed now]
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 01, 2007, 05:35:34 pm
Not really. You can't even get a Hydra class monster til near the very end, all you could hope to use it for is Adramelk, Hashy, and Altima. Possibly Zalera too, not sure. Just that it would be too strong on humans who could get it for all the Zodiac battles

And MA * 16 doesn't sound that bad, since it has no V Tolerance. There are hardly any completely flat maps to take advantage of the AoE, but if anything you could lower it to 14/15 while making Wind Soul 16/17
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 01, 2007, 05:38:30 pm
Hey... for Cockatrice skill: Beaking or Shine Lover?

Uribo skill: Please Eat, Nose Bracelet, or Pooh-?

Minotaur skill: which one? (Mimic Titan, Gather Power, Wave Around) I dunno if Gather Power is a good idea, since it boosts PA by two. That's a double accumulate!
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 01, 2007, 05:51:14 pm
Gather Power wouldn't help much, since it's a mostly magical class. Mimic Titan would give it a decent Earth element. Earth and Wind are two underused elements, so why not =)

Though Wave Around could be considered useful too, since it hits around you. Meh, whatever

Cockatrice - Beaking probably, stealing Gil seems sorta...ineffective, since it's so easy to get after battles in tens of thousands, a few hundred makes hardly any difference. Feather Bomb would be fun, though it would mix up with Blaster

Uribo family - Please Eat would be a little cruel, would it not? Working so hard to raise your Blue Mage, then feeding yourself to someone? Oink seems a little overpowered at the moment, but a decent revival move would make it all around strong. Maybe Nose Bracet, or a nerfed Oink, don't really know.
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on November 01, 2007, 08:27:46 pm
Beaking, Mimic Titan. Though remember the blue mage is also a physical job (well, as much as Geos).

Just give triple breath the usual breath damage formula.

I vote nose breath for pig class. Oink's too strong and straight dash? yeah sure.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on November 01, 2007, 08:43:49 pm
How would you get hit by Gather Power? It's auto self target.
Title:
Post by: Asmo X on November 01, 2007, 09:04:34 pm
Quote from: "Chrona"Gather Power wouldn't help much, since it's a mostly magical class.

What about using Blue Magic as a secondary for a monk or something then? It could be pretty damn powerful.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 01, 2007, 09:20:06 pm
Physical? Should I change these stats then?
HPC HPM MPC MPM SpC SpM PAC PAM MAC MAM
011.   080.   012.   090   100.   100   050.   095   045.   105

Oh, and should Blue Mage have White Wind (aka Life Spirit)? Right now the set is full, so something would have to get the boot. Beaking?
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on November 02, 2007, 07:13:10 am
I don't know... isn't that a lot of MP for a job that its main skillset doesn't even require MP?
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 02, 2007, 05:25:44 pm
Maybe. I was thinking along the lines of Geomancer, which doesn't use MP in its primary, but it has 95MP.
Title:
Post by: karsten on November 03, 2007, 07:54:08 pm
QuoteGoblin Punch - (PA +80)% success

way too much, really. maybe starting with 60 or 65% would make sense
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 03, 2007, 07:57:13 pm
Really? Did it turn out ugly in-game?

What would you guys say about these stats?
HPC HPM MPC MPM SpC SpM PAC PAM MAC MAM
010. 095. 013. 075 100. 100 050. 100 045. 110
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 06, 2007, 07:18:55 am
New poll on learning Blue Magic in place!
Title:
Post by: Prinygod on November 08, 2007, 12:56:18 pm
what ever you end up deciding on, it seems impossible to learn blaster blue mage style. Apparently both petrify and stop will prevent you from learning it, and i don't know anyway to make it so i can learn it BM style.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 08, 2007, 05:27:15 pm
^_^ Looks like to make it learned only Blue Mage style (which is the way I just happen to be against) I'd have to hack into the mechanics of that function. Since I am unable to do that, looks like this poll is just for kicks for the time being.
Title:
Post by: Prinygod on November 10, 2007, 01:41:48 pm
Break is the only ability on the list that you cannot blue mage learn. There is always around it such as switching it out, or making that move the only jp learnable one. Ive tried learning blue magic buy only blue mage style, and its not the inconvient. You fight most enemies in the game with out trying so its not hard to invite one that you need. And if you are poaching its even easier. Btw it seems frog also prevents you from learning it.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on November 12, 2007, 11:16:58 pm
Status based on what you posted:

QuoteSex: Male
HPM: 95 | MPM: 75 | SpM: 100 | PAM: 100 | MAM: 110
HPC: 10 | MPC: 13 | SpC: 100 | PAC: 50 | MAC: 45

Level 1 HP 28-30, MP 10-11, PA 5, MA 4,SP 6
Level 2 HP 31-33, MP 11-12, PA 5, MA 4,SP 6
Level 3 HP 33-35, MP 12-12, PA 5, MA 4,SP 6
Level 4 HP 36-38, MP 12-13, PA 5, MA 4,SP 6
Level 5 HP 38-41, MP 13-14, PA 5, MA 4,SP 6
Level 6 HP 41-44, MP 14-15, PA 5, MA 4,SP 6
Level 7 HP 44-46, MP 15-16, PA 5, MA 4,SP 6
Level 8 HP 46-49, MP 15-16, PA 5, MA 5,SP 6
Level 9 HP 49-52, MP 16-17, PA 5, MA 5,SP 6
Level 10 HP 51-55, MP 17-18, PA 5, MA 5,SP 6
Level 11 HP 54-58, MP 18-19, PA 5, MA 5,SP 6
Level 12 HP 56-60, MP 18-20, PA 6, MA 5,SP 6
Level 13 HP 59-63, MP 19-20, PA 6, MA 5,SP 6
Level 14 HP 62-66, MP 20-21, PA 6, MA 5,SP 6
Level 15 HP 64-69, MP 21-22, PA 6, MA 5,SP 6
Level 16 HP 67-71, MP 21-23, PA 6, MA 5,SP 6
Level 17 HP 69-74, MP 22-24, PA 6, MA 5,SP 6
Level 18 HP 72-77, MP 23-24, PA 6, MA 6,SP 7
Level 19 HP 75-80, MP 24-25, PA 6, MA 6,SP 7
Level 20 HP 77-82, MP 24-26, PA 6, MA 6,SP 7
Level 21 HP 80-85, MP 25-27, PA 6, MA 6,SP 7
Level 22 HP 82-88, MP 26-28, PA 7, MA 6,SP 7
Level 23 HP 85-91, MP 27-28, PA 7, MA 6,SP 7
Level 24 HP 88-93, MP 27-29, PA 7, MA 6,SP 7
Level 25 HP 90-96, MP 28-30, PA 7, MA 6,SP 7
Level 26 HP 93-99, MP 29-31, PA 7, MA 6,SP 7
Level 27 HP 95-102, MP 30-32, PA 7, MA 6,SP 7
Level 28 HP 98-105, MP 30-32, PA 7, MA 6,SP 7
Level 29 HP 101-107, MP 31-33, PA 7, MA 7,SP 7
Level 30 HP 103-110, MP 32-34, PA 7, MA 7,SP 7
Level 31 HP 106-113, MP 33-35, PA 7, MA 7,SP 7
Level 32 HP 108-116, MP 33-36, PA 8, MA 7,SP 7
Level 33 HP 111-118, MP 34-36, PA 8, MA 7,SP 7
Level 34 HP 113-121, MP 35-37, PA 8, MA 7,SP 7
Level 35 HP 116-124, MP 36-38, PA 8, MA 7,SP 8
Level 36 HP 119-127, MP 36-39, PA 8, MA 7,SP 8
Level 37 HP 121-129, MP 37-40, PA 8, MA 7,SP 8
Level 38 HP 124-132, MP 38-40, PA 8, MA 7,SP 8
Level 39 HP 126-135, MP 39-41, PA 8, MA 8,SP 8
Level 40 HP 129-138, MP 39-42, PA 8, MA 8,SP 8
Level 41 HP 132-140, MP 40-43, PA 8, MA 8,SP 8
Level 42 HP 134-143, MP 41-44, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 43 HP 137-146, MP 42-44, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 44 HP 139-149, MP 42-45, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 45 HP 142-151, MP 43-46, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 46 HP 145-154, MP 44-47, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 47 HP 147-157, MP 45-48, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 48 HP 150-160, MP 45-49, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 49 HP 152-163, MP 46-49, PA 9, MA 8,SP 8
Level 50 HP 155-165, MP 47-50, PA 9, MA 9,SP 8
Level 51 HP 158-168, MP 48-51, PA 9, MA 9,SP 8
Level 52 HP 160-171, MP 48-52, PA 9, MA 9,SP 9
Level 53 HP 163-174, MP 49-53, PA 10, MA 9,SP 9
Level 54 HP 165-176, MP 50-53, PA 10, MA 9,SP 9
Level 55 HP 168-179, MP 51-54, PA 10, MA 9,SP 9
Level 56 HP 170-182, MP 51-55, PA 10, MA 9,SP 9
Level 57 HP 173-185, MP 52-56, PA 10, MA 9,SP 9
Level 58 HP 176-187, MP 53-57, PA 10, MA 9,SP 9
Level 59 HP 178-190, MP 54-57, PA 10, MA 9,SP 9
Level 60 HP 181-193, MP 54-58, PA 10, MA 10,SP 9
Level 61 HP 183-196, MP 55-59, PA 10, MA 10,SP 9
Level 62 HP 186-198, MP 56-60, PA 10, MA 10,SP 9
Level 63 HP 189-201, MP 57-61, PA 11, MA 10,SP 9
Level 64 HP 191-204, MP 57-61, PA 11, MA 10,SP 9
Level 65 HP 194-207, MP 58-62, PA 11, MA 10,SP 9
Level 66 HP 196-210, MP 59-63, PA 11, MA 10,SP 9
Level 67 HP 199-212, MP 60-64, PA 11, MA 10,SP 9
Level 68 HP 202-215, MP 60-65, PA 11, MA 10,SP 9
Level 69 HP 204-218, MP 61-65, PA 11, MA 10,SP 10
Level 70 HP 207-221, MP 62-66, PA 11, MA 10,SP 10
Level 71 HP 209-223, MP 63-67, PA 11, MA 11,SP 10
Level 72 HP 212-226, MP 63-68, PA 11, MA 11,SP 10
Level 73 HP 215-229, MP 64-69, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 74 HP 217-232, MP 65-69, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 75 HP 220-234, MP 66-70, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 76 HP 222-237, MP 66-71, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 77 HP 225-240, MP 67-72, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 78 HP 227-243, MP 68-73, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 79 HP 230-245, MP 69-73, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 80 HP 233-248, MP 69-74, PA 12, MA 11,SP 10
Level 81 HP 235-251, MP 70-75, PA 12, MA 12,SP 10
Level 82 HP 238-254, MP 71-76, PA 12, MA 12,SP 10
Level 83 HP 240-257, MP 72-77, PA 13, MA 12,SP 10
Level 84 HP 243-259, MP 72-77, PA 13, MA 12,SP 10
Level 85 HP 246-262, MP 73-78, PA 13, MA 12,SP 10
Level 86 HP 248-265, MP 74-79, PA 13, MA 12,SP 11
Level 87 HP 251-268, MP 75-80, PA 13, MA 12,SP 11
Level 88 HP 253-270, MP 75-81, PA 13, MA 12,SP 11
Level 89 HP 256-273, MP 76-81, PA 13, MA 12,SP 11
Level 90 HP 259-276, MP 77-82, PA 13, MA 12,SP 11
Level 91 HP 261-279, MP 78-83, PA 13, MA 13,SP 11
Level 92 HP 264-281, MP 78-84, PA 13, MA 13,SP 11
Level 93 HP 266-284, MP 79-85, PA 14, MA 13,SP 11
Level 94 HP 269-287, MP 80-85, PA 14, MA 13,SP 11
Level 95 HP 272-290, MP 81-86, PA 14, MA 13,SP 11
Level 96 HP 274-292, MP 81-87, PA 14, MA 13,SP 11
Level 97 HP 277-295, MP 82-88, PA 14, MA 13,SP 11
Level 98 HP 279-298, MP 83-89, PA 14, MA 13,SP 11
Level 99 HP 282-301, MP 84-89, PA 14, MA 13,SP 11

QuoteSex: Female
HPM: 95 | MPM: 75 | SpM: 100 | PAM: 100 | MAM: 110
HPC: 10 | MPC: 13 | SpC: 100 | PAC: 50 | MAC: 45

Level 1 HP 26-28, MP 11-11, PA 4, MA 5,SP 6
Level 2 HP 29-31, MP 12-12, PA 4, MA 5,SP 6
Level 3 HP 31-33, MP 12-13, PA 4, MA 5,SP 6
Level 4 HP 33-36, MP 13-14, PA 4, MA 5,SP 6
Level 5 HP 36-38, MP 14-15, PA 4, MA 5,SP 6
Level 6 HP 38-41, MP 15-16, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 7 HP 41-44, MP 16-17, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 8 HP 43-46, MP 16-17, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 9 HP 45-49, MP 17-18, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 10 HP 48-51, MP 18-19, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 11 HP 50-54, MP 19-20, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 12 HP 53-56, MP 20-21, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 13 HP 55-59, MP 20-22, PA 4, MA 6,SP 6
Level 14 HP 58-62, MP 21-23, PA 5, MA 7,SP 6
Level 15 HP 60-64, MP 22-23, PA 5, MA 7,SP 6
Level 16 HP 62-67, MP 23-24, PA 5, MA 7,SP 6
Level 17 HP 65-69, MP 24-25, PA 5, MA 7,SP 6
Level 18 HP 67-72, MP 24-26, PA 5, MA 7,SP 7
Level 19 HP 70-75, MP 25-27, PA 5, MA 7,SP 7
Level 20 HP 72-77, MP 26-28, PA 5, MA 7,SP 7
Level 21 HP 74-80, MP 27-29, PA 5, MA 7,SP 7
Level 22 HP 77-82, MP 28-29, PA 5, MA 8,SP 7
Level 23 HP 79-85, MP 28-30, PA 5, MA 8,SP 7
Level 24 HP 82-88, MP 29-31, PA 5, MA 8,SP 7
Level 25 HP 84-90, MP 30-32, PA 5, MA 8,SP 7
Level 26 HP 87-93, MP 31-33, PA 5, MA 8,SP 7
Level 27 HP 89-95, MP 32-34, PA 6, MA 8,SP 7
Level 28 HP 91-98, MP 32-35, PA 6, MA 8,SP 7
Level 29 HP 94-101, MP 33-35, PA 6, MA 8,SP 7
Level 30 HP 96-103, MP 34-36, PA 6, MA 8,SP 7
Level 31 HP 99-106, MP 35-37, PA 6, MA 9,SP 7
Level 32 HP 101-108, MP 36-38, PA 6, MA 9,SP 7
Level 33 HP 103-111, MP 36-39, PA 6, MA 9,SP 7
Level 34 HP 106-113, MP 37-40, PA 6, MA 9,SP 7
Level 35 HP 108-116, MP 38-41, PA 6, MA 9,SP 8
Level 36 HP 111-119, MP 39-41, PA 6, MA 9,SP 8
Level 37 HP 113-121, MP 40-42, PA 6, MA 9,SP 8
Level 38 HP 116-124, MP 40-43, PA 6, MA 9,SP 8
Level 39 HP 118-126, MP 41-44, PA 6, MA 10,SP 8
Level 40 HP 120-129, MP 42-45, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 41 HP 123-132, MP 43-46, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 42 HP 125-134, MP 44-47, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 43 HP 128-137, MP 44-47, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 44 HP 130-139, MP 45-48, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 45 HP 132-142, MP 46-49, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 46 HP 135-145, MP 47-50, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 47 HP 137-147, MP 48-51, PA 7, MA 10,SP 8
Level 48 HP 140-150, MP 49-52, PA 7, MA 11,SP 8
Level 49 HP 142-152, MP 49-53, PA 7, MA 11,SP 8
Level 50 HP 145-155, MP 50-53, PA 7, MA 11,SP 8
Level 51 HP 147-158, MP 51-54, PA 7, MA 11,SP 8
Level 52 HP 149-160, MP 52-55, PA 7, MA 11,SP 9
Level 53 HP 152-163, MP 53-56, PA 8, MA 11,SP 9
Level 54 HP 154-165, MP 53-57, PA 8, MA 11,SP 9
Level 55 HP 157-168, MP 54-58, PA 8, MA 11,SP 9
Level 56 HP 159-170, MP 55-59, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 57 HP 162-173, MP 56-59, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 58 HP 164-176, MP 57-60, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 59 HP 166-178, MP 57-61, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 60 HP 169-181, MP 58-62, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 61 HP 171-183, MP 59-63, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 62 HP 174-186, MP 60-64, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 63 HP 176-189, MP 61-65, PA 8, MA 12,SP 9
Level 64 HP 178-191, MP 61-65, PA 8, MA 13,SP 9
Level 65 HP 181-194, MP 62-66, PA 9, MA 13,SP 9
Level 66 HP 183-196, MP 63-67, PA 9, MA 13,SP 9
Level 67 HP 186-199, MP 64-68, PA 9, MA 13,SP 9
Level 68 HP 188-202, MP 65-69, PA 9, MA 13,SP 9
Level 69 HP 191-204, MP 65-70, PA 9, MA 13,SP 10
Level 70 HP 193-207, MP 66-71, PA 9, MA 13,SP 10
Level 71 HP 195-209, MP 67-71, PA 9, MA 13,SP 10
Level 72 HP 198-212, MP 68-72, PA 9, MA 13,SP 10
Level 73 HP 200-215, MP 69-73, PA 9, MA 14,SP 10
Level 74 HP 203-217, MP 69-74, PA 9, MA 14,SP 10
Level 75 HP 205-220, MP 70-75, PA 9, MA 14,SP 10
Level 76 HP 207-222, MP 71-76, PA 9, MA 14,SP 10
Level 77 HP 210-225, MP 72-77, PA 9, MA 14,SP 10
Level 78 HP 212-227, MP 73-77, PA 10, MA 14,SP 10
Level 79 HP 215-230, MP 73-78, PA 10, MA 14,SP 10
Level 80 HP 217-233, MP 74-79, PA 10, MA 14,SP 10
Level 81 HP 220-235, MP 75-80, PA 10, MA 15,SP 10
Level 82 HP 222-238, MP 76-81, PA 10, MA 15,SP 10
Level 83 HP 224-240, MP 77-82, PA 10, MA 15,SP 10
Level 84 HP 227-243, MP 77-83, PA 10, MA 15,SP 10
Level 85 HP 229-246, MP 78-83, PA 10, MA 15,SP 10
Level 86 HP 232-248, MP 79-84, PA 10, MA 15,SP 11
Level 87 HP 234-251, MP 80-85, PA 10, MA 15,SP 11
Level 88 HP 236-253, MP 81-86, PA 10, MA 15,SP 11
Level 89 HP 239-256, MP 81-87, PA 10, MA 16,SP 11
Level 90 HP 241-259, MP 82-88, PA 10, MA 16,SP 11
Level 91 HP 244-261, MP 83-89, PA 11, MA 16,SP 11
Level 92 HP 246-264, MP 84-89, PA 11, MA 16,SP 11
Level 93 HP 249-266, MP 85-90, PA 11, MA 16,SP 11
Level 94 HP 251-269, MP 85-91, PA 11, MA 16,SP 11
Level 95 HP 253-272, MP 86-92, PA 11, MA 16,SP 11
Level 96 HP 256-274, MP 87-93, PA 11, MA 16,SP 11
Level 97 HP 258-277, MP 88-94, PA 11, MA 16,SP 11
Level 98 HP 261-279, MP 89-95, PA 11, MA 17,SP 11
Level 99 HP 263-282, MP 89-95, PA 11, MA 17,SP 11
Title:
Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on November 21, 2007, 05:34:15 pm
On the Stop/Petrify issue, could you learn the skill if you had an item that prevented the status effect?  Of is it like Zodiac, and it actually needs to affect to be learned?

Also, has anyone given thought to the support/reaction/movement abilities?  Or were we just going to use the Calc set?  If not, I'd say take Fly away from the Bard class and give it the the Blue Mage.  And maybe add some new abilities.  I thought of an interesting/near useless reaction ability, but it sound fun.  I call it Bone Spirit.  It would be kind of like Dragon Spirit except that it adds Undead status instead of Reraise.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 21, 2007, 09:14:37 pm
-Abilities that can be learned Blue Mage style must affect the target IIRC

-Humans can't fly in this version, but skills have been redistibuted (like Distribute is on Priest)

-Bone Spirit.... XD I wish I knew how to alter stuff like that, but it may be a while before I discover where that information is stored.


Argg0: Just so you know, I am changing the Blue Mage stats. If need be, I can delete that list when it changes.

Oh by the way, who is strongly against me making Blue Magic costing MP? I certainly won't make them Faith based, and I probably won't give a Charge Time, but no MP cost as well is too good.
 Of course monsters will have plenty of MP.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on November 22, 2007, 03:56:34 pm
Geomancy, Martial Arts, Draw Out... they all are Faith undependent, chargeless and no MP.

And no one complains.

About the stats... I can update that if you wish.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 22, 2007, 09:43:40 pm
Yeah, but Blue Magic is very versatile as it stands. Everything will have to be made weaker if that's the case. You did overlook some important things...

Geomancy - dependent on terrain, and not very versatile, not to mention fairly weak

Martial Arts - only targets one enemy (except Earth Slash, which despite being not very powerful, is a very good ability)

Draw Out - costs Katanas (though I must admit that doesn't hurt it much), the power on this was toned down because it was too powerful


Swordskills used to cost no MP, but they were given an MP cost because they were so good. I'm comparing Blue Magic to other magic and it seems that skills like Giga Flare should at least cost some MP. I mean, come on. Maybe not Goblin Punch, but this IS magic...

I'll let you know the new stats when I release the new version. May take a while, since I'm trying to add in some brand-spanking new stuff. I'm not going to say what it is in case I fail completely, but I am still working on Sigma.
Title:
Post by: karsten on November 23, 2007, 02:15:36 am
nice to hear it.... how about those new classes and "berserk" items? could you create them up?
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 23, 2007, 11:09:38 am
Errr... Necromancer and Mystic Knight are, as of now, on hold. I can make a Pseudo-necromancer, one without the power to raise the undead, but as of now, I don't know how to raise undead units. As for Mystic Knight, I could do as you suggested, with a modified formula, but it would look like magic casting I'm pretty sure.

As for Berserker equipment, that's no problem, though I'll have to find out how to change the appearance of equipment, because the Fury Axe looks like a blob when attacking.
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 23, 2007, 11:52:17 am
Isn't Monk's Chakra kinda like healing undead without hurting them? Doesn't Revive work the same way?

Also, give it a small AoE (3v2 maybe) revival spell that turns the revived into Zombies. Too broken?
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on November 23, 2007, 03:53:08 pm
I'll see what I can do, though I don't think Revive works on Undead units. What you have suggested may be broken, unless the success is low, or it costs lots of MP. By the way, who would be Necromancer? I still haven't found a way to fix Mime.
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 23, 2007, 06:45:34 pm
3v1? Would give people different reasons to use than Raise and stuff - targets more characters, but they can't be healed afterwards. Possibly make it target enemies too, to make it a little more double edged

And no clue. You could replace Chemist if you make Item tertiary on everyone somehow
Title:
Post by: huthutchuck on November 23, 2007, 08:30:31 pm
I think I just heard a genius comment by accident.  Is is possible to edit the raise effect so that after the person is brought back to life they are added with the status of undead/zombie or bloodsuck?
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 23, 2007, 08:32:33 pm
Yeah, that's just what I suggested for my last two posts XD
Title:
Post by: huthutchuck on November 23, 2007, 08:40:03 pm
Chrona, I would like your opinion, lets say this new skill was used on an enemy unit.  Would this new ability also add invite or would that just be part of the strategy to just ressurect your allies?
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 23, 2007, 08:42:29 pm
Why would it add invite? It's a multi panel revival skill which is balanced out by both reviving your enemies, and making your guys and your enemies zombies. Invite would be too cheap
Title:
Post by: huthutchuck on November 23, 2007, 08:45:59 pm
The reason why I said that is a necromancer should have control of the undead.  The main reason why I'm wondering this is because it would be a great skill to have and also a great skill to go against.  Imagine how afraid you would be to have one of your units die close to a necromancer?
Title:
Post by: Chrona on November 23, 2007, 08:48:19 pm
There could be a single panel Zombie Raise thing to control an enemy, that would make sense. I was thinking along the lines of Mind Control - 100% Charm on any undead
Title:
Post by: huthutchuck on November 23, 2007, 08:53:17 pm
I like it, similar effect without the permanent setbacks.
Title:
Post by: Kourama on December 04, 2007, 03:36:38 pm
I already have changed my FFT around to have Calculator as a Blue Mage. Blue Mage learns magic like it should (by getting hit by it), but all the moves are exactly the same as if the monsters had it.

So basically no MP to use abilities and not charge time. As for stats I have incredibly low MP growth and slightly better MA than Black Mage. I know that it makes for a good Blu/Sam combo but you could always tone down Sam anyway.

The moves I have are as follows:

Choco Cure
Mutilate
Aqua Soul
Beaking (changed to -5 PA)
Bad Bracelet
Giga Flare
Dark Whisper
Oink
Blaster (added Don't Move as a random effect so you can learn the move)
Death Sentence
Self Destruct
Level Blast
Calm Spirit (gives haste to self and all around, Protect Spirit gives Wall now)
Blow Fire
Thunder Bracelet

From my use of Blue Mage it really isn't broken. Most if not all moves are an ok hit % and the damage is no where near as strong as if a monster had used the move.

Only thing I don't know how to do is change the names of things like Calculator --> Blue Mage to have it show up like that in the game.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 04, 2007, 08:10:26 pm
I'm glad to see that you have a Blue Mage that works without using MP. My question though is, would a person playing your version ever use Aqua Soul over Giga Flare? Sure, it costs less JP, but it was pretty useless in my earlier version once the class was mastered. Also, it shouldn't be so powerful near the beginning of the game. I could make the Soul ability more powerful than Giga Flare; however...

 I like to think that Giga Flare is a powerful, one (or two) time move and have proceeded to give it an MP cost. I couldn't find an effective way to give Blue Mage an ultimate ability and still make a reason for every character to be used (an idealistic goal, but I think I'm getting there). I am glad that you also made a motion to keep the monsters better at their own skills than the Blue Mage is.

Changing "Calculator" to "Blue Mage" isn't too hard. Easiest thing would be to go into Winhex, open up World.bin and Battle.bin and replace 0c242f26382f24373235 with 0b2f3828fa16242a28fa. That should fix the problem, but I may have overlooked another important location...

Zodiac: Replacing 10 bytes by 9 bytes? I don't remember teaching you that. Fixed it.
Edit: Whoops, yeah I forgot the space at the end... >.>
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on December 04, 2007, 11:15:42 pm
Easy solution to Soul abilities: Add status.
Title:
Post by: Kourama on December 04, 2007, 11:59:10 pm
You are right it would be pretty worthless to use Aqua Soul instead of Giga Flare but factor in that you can't really get Giga Flare until late in the game because every single move is learned from a monster.

No abilities can be learned with JP. Now since this is the case Blue Mage is kind of like Samurai where the stronger moves are the ones you end up using more but you get to use them when you get the katanas.

Besides like Argg0 said you could always add a status ability to the Soul abilities. Although that would make the Zombies/Ghosts much tougher enemies.

Edit: Just a few more things, from my experience with Blue Mage in other FFT games there have always been moves that were somewhat worthless. Making the abilities learned from monsters makes someone work much harder to master Blue Mage. Anyway I just think having my BLU the way it is makes it worth the effort.

Besides if you wanted to make lets say "Aqua Soul" more useful you could  have it have a chance to turn enemies into a frog (like that Geomancer move).
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 05, 2007, 06:33:33 am
Ah, right...

Though that means I would have to go against what most people have voted for >.>
Though the old Blue Mages did have skills that cost MP, but now I'm really not sure which way to go. I think it's time we opened the floor for good reasons for and against certain Blue Mage traits.


Right now, we either will have Blue Mage end up better at magic than all other classes, but due to having low MP, the Blue Mage will be able to cast fewer spells, or have Black Mage better at most Blue Magic, which just seems wrong. If none of the Blue Mage skills cost MP, then the MPM of Blue Mage can be incredibly low, so that Blue Mage will have to rely on robes and hats to cast regular magic.

Balancing the skills within the set is dependent either on MP cost, or making the skills only learnable Blue Mage style. Aqua Soul becoming obsolete (or Wind Soul) isn't a problem if one can learn the Soul ability in Chapter 1 or 2 but will not be able to learn Giga Flare until late Chapter 3 or Chapter 4. Otherwise, there would need to be an MP cost for Giga Flare, which would cause the Blue Mage to need MP. Then, either Blue Mage will be able to use Giga Flare much less than other mages, or Blue Mage will need less MA and more MP.

So really, my argument boils down to this: MP Cost for some skills or learn skills Blue Mage style only? I can guess where Argg0 and Kourama stand...
Title:
Post by: Asmo X on December 05, 2007, 08:50:22 am
I should at least point this out: Learning skills exclusively "Blue Mage Style" has no bearing whatsoever on balance. It does not permeate the game in any way. All it does is create a temporary large nuisance for the player as they grope around aimlessly, a) trying to figure out which skills can be learned and then b) Subjecting themselves lengthily to the capricious nature of the enemy or going through the rigmarole of recruiting the enemy and casting the skill on their own Blue Mage team mate. Of the latter situation I have to say, what on earth does this add to anything? It's not difficult, it's tedious. Which is a fair history of all Blue Mages throughout the history of FF games. Skill learning is the lumbering jalopy of the series and it's wise not to get sentimental about it.

Balance is neutral to any moment in the game. It isn't a balance issue to have to learn skills because learning is a momentary thing. You don't have the skill, then you do. Balance should be a question of the lasting usefulness of the skill, not the temporary nuisance of learning it. Similarly, learning a skill late in the game isn't a balance issue. Again, think of lasting neutrality. Once you have the late skill, the other(s) is/are obsolete. There is no late game balance there.

I'm for applying MP limitations to the Blue Mage as a way of confining its potency in the other disciplines. In fact, I don't think MP is used well enough in general (across pretty much all RPGs) as a tool to balance classes/skills.
Title:
Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 05, 2007, 10:37:18 am
I am actually for both for MP cost and blue mage style learning.  I understand Asmo X aversion to the tedium of learning skills that way, but I do not view it that way.  Asmo, you say we shouldn't get sentimental about that style of learning, but I thought the whole reason the Blue Mage was being added was because of sentimentality and nostalgia.

If we don't give the Blue Mage an MP cost, he will just spam Giga Flare every turn.  Giga flare should be a one or two time thing per battle, kinda of like metoer.  So I say the Blue Mage should have the best MA, have low MP, and have summoner SP.  If the Blue Mage would run out of MP, some of his weaker abilities could MP cost of 0 or just a low MP cost like 4 or 5.
Title:
Post by: Asmo X on December 05, 2007, 11:11:09 am
Sometimes bad ideas install themselves in tradition. Blue Magic learning is like that. But I should say I have no problem whatsoever if this is used in conjunction with JP purchasing.

I don't know if there has to be a "why" about job inclusion. To me, a Blue Mage in this game is a versatile, no charge mage. I think that distingushes the set enough. And the fact that it has monster skills is enough to make it Blue Mageish.

Really, if there absolutely have to be learn-only skills, one tradition that needs a swift kick in the ass is that there isn't so much as a hint as to what they are or who/what has them. They love to completely hide shit like that. How about, when you check the description of a dictionary it mentions a learnable monster skill. There can be one of these for each dictionary with the rest of the skills JP purchasable too.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on December 05, 2007, 11:22:07 am
I don't know... I always though it was fun to learn blue magic on getting hit style...

And...

Quote from: "Argg0"Geomancy, Martial Arts, Draw Out... they all are Faith undependent, chargeless and no MP.

And no one complains.
Title:
Post by: Kourama on December 05, 2007, 11:31:47 am
I'm not really against Blue Magic costing mp, but if it does cost mp a lot of balancing issues come into play.

All mage jobs would have to be looked at to make sure Blue Mage uses its abilities better than other mages and monsters would need to go through some sort of change. I've never been too into programming so I don't know how much it would entail to make sure monsters use their abilities without cost to mp while Blue Mage must use them with mp, but I guessing it might be more work than necessary.

Anyway as for Blue Magic being learned with JP, I see Asmo's point in how tedious it can be. Lets say if Blue Mage is implemented with JP costs, there is pretty much no good reason to have it able to be learned by getting hit by it. It would be much easier and faster to learn abilities through JP then getting hit by them.

In any case I do like Asmo's idea about putting the moves that Blue Mage can learn in a dictionary. Another idea would be to just have certain monster moves say "Blue Magic" just like certain magic moves say "Calc" when you press select to check them.

I'm just pretty much tossing out ideas and playing devil's advocate to make sure all bases are covered. I think its clear how Asmo and I would like Blue Mage but I leave it to everyone to vote on what they like and more importantly what would work well.
Title:
Post by: Asmo X on December 05, 2007, 11:46:01 am
True. Maybe they should complain though. I think Draw Out is way too good. They've essentially tried to balance it with money and that's a stupid-ass idea. You know what would be good? If a broken item was repaired after battle. Breaking a weapon is a strategic option. To have breakage carry over afterwards is just spiteful.

This would be good because you could use Katanas as de facto MP but even more severe. They could be super cheap, break every time you use a DO and you could only stock like, a few of them. That'd really make you think.
Title:
Post by: Kourama on December 05, 2007, 12:11:37 pm
Yeah I do agree that Draw Out is pretty cheap although I think making it faith dependent and making PA/MA affect damage would solve most problems with it.

I think the biggest problem is that the enemies never really take advantage of the unbalanced abilities in the game. Math Skill, Blade Grasp, Draw Out, to  
name a few are cheap only really because players can exploit them but enemies never do.

And it isn't because the AI wouldn't exploit them because one of the first few times I played this game the AI charmed one of my people which charmed another one of my people which then used Math Skill to cast Raise 2 on all the enemies. Its that fact that the AI never has access to those abilities.

Although some of the multiplayer battles on the PSP version do exploit some things in this game.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 05, 2007, 07:09:31 pm
Quote from: "Asmo X"Balance is neutral to any moment in the game....Similarly, learning a skill late in the game isn't a balance issue. Again, think of lasting neutrality. Once you have the late skill, the other(s) is/are obsolete. There is no late game balance there.

But if the player doesn't get this 'upgrade' until the last fifth or so of the game, isn't it safe to say that people would actually put the skill to use for most of the game? I don't know about you, but I rate balance on how much a skill/class would be used over a wide range of gamers. But anyway...

Giga Flare won't be disproportionately powerful when you actually DO get it, but I see your concern. Unlike any other skills, Giga Flare is powerful, has range, a large AoE, and has no cost to you, not even money. You can't say that any other skill falls into this category. Also, IIRC money is in abundance by the end, so I will jack up prices of late-game items if I find this to be the case. (I know people can random battle until they get that money, but they can also break the game by powerleveling if they so choose.) That being said, if your character can't learn Giga Flare until Chapter 4, it won't be a problem as long as it is weaker than most other class's ultimate attacks.

Draw Out was just cheap because the Q value was set for Samurai, which is 90MAM, not Wizard, which is 150MAM. Perhaps this wasn't enough, but I made Black Mage have 130MAM (or was it 135?) and reduced the Q value (Samurai MAM raised proportionately ofc). I'd say maybe go with an MA and PA formula, but faith should be reserved for magic. I'd love to limit the number of katanas one can hold in stock, but there are much simpler ways of handling Draw Out. A good example is trying to make monsters not use MP for skills that do cost MP when I can just simply make the monsters have a surplus of MP. With a C growth of 0 and a multiplier of 255, the MP wouldn't be a problem. I'd spend my time trying to make Doublecast before messing with maximum katana stock.
Title:
Post by: Asmo X on December 05, 2007, 08:55:56 pm
Well we obviously have different approaches to balance. I think it should be utterly constant. If you say "well I'm going to make this skill better than the others because you get it so late" then it's possible for me to imagine a battle situation where there is imbalance. In this case, it is a late battle in the game. If I understand correctly, your approach is more along the lines of time in possession of the skill relative to the story battles.

I don't mind if the skill does the most damage, as long as it has some limiting qualities. And I don't want you to think I was trying to single out Giga Flare. I was just trying to point out what I thought was the correct way of thinking about balance.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on December 06, 2007, 01:17:54 am
Blue magic learning is also a way to balance. As you said, it will only be avaible by chapter four.

By chapter 4, MA * 7 is kinda laughtable. I mean, take a look at Limit for example... Cross Slash does MA * 22. Sure, it has less range and area (though, v0 doesn't really help...).

It will deal the about same damage as Geomancy, or less. Geomancy has 5 range and 2v0 while Giga Flare has 4 range and 3v0. I'd take Geomancy over Giga...

So, I don't think it's rigged.
Title:
Post by: karsten on December 06, 2007, 02:24:43 am
Quote from: "Argg0"Blue magic learning is also a way to balance. As you said, it will only be avaible by chapter four.

By chapter 4, MA * 7 is kinda laughtable. I mean, take a look at Limit for example... Cross Slash does MA * 22. Sure, it has less range and area (though, v0 doesn't really help...).

It will deal the about same damage as Geomancy, or less. Geomancy has 5 range and 2v0 while Giga Flare has 4 range and 3v0. I'd take Geomancy over Giga...

So, I don't think it's rigged.

i agree. and remember that you soon get red chocobos... choco meteor!
Title:
Post by: huthutchuck on December 06, 2007, 04:00:29 am
I agree with the idea of making the blue magic cost mp.  In the classic FF games, ff6 for example, the blue magic spells always cost more and were more powerful than the normal black magic spells.  Want a possible solution keep the magic attack and magic growth of the blue mage lower than the black mage.  In order to balance give higher mp and mp growth to the blue mage and make the blue magic spells cost ridiculous amounts of mp ala summoner.  You can't cheese an ability as a black mage if you only have enough magic to cast it once.  Don't be afraid to create Mighty Guard but let it cost maybe 64 or 70 mp.

As for samurai, I don't think draw out is as cheap as everyone says.  I'll admit it is very powerful but the most powerful abilities are from rare swords.    You should only have about one or two of them.  Besides the samurai and other advanced classes are the reward for training your character through other classes.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 06, 2007, 06:31:07 am
Well, it's because that MA*7 is laughable that I boosted damage, but if we're okay with it doing around Geomancy damage, then it shouldn't be a problem.

My 'Mighty Guard' adds wall to the character and immediately surrounding units. I'd rather not try to balance Blue Mage by making skills lots of MP when Summoner already does the same thing. I wouldn't even dream of making Blue Magic more powerful than Black Magic without adding a charge time, and that would completely screw up monsters.

[Edit: When I start changing the descriptions, I'll make sure to indicate which monster skills Blue Mage can learn on each of the skills and probably include the list in the Blue Magic description, if we decide to make them only learnable Blue Mage style]
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 09, 2007, 06:34:14 am
Okay, Blue Magic is only learnable Blue Mage style because no other class works this way. This will allow me to add places where a good skill can be learned much earlier, but the chance is in the midst of a difficult battle so it's easier not to worry about it. I'd like to make it so that Blue Mage skills are really good, so that going through the trouble of learning the skills is worth it, but also not make Blue Magic (or Blue Mage) broken. Sorry Asmo, but if you really want the skills without the hassle, perhaps you can settle with having a monster or two.

The MP cost will be done away with for all Blue Magic skills*. This means, however, that Blue Mage will have no really powerful skills. The only way I'd give MP cost to any abilities is if Blue Mage has high MA and low MP. With this, other mages would be able to cast Blue Magic more, but it would be less effective, and Blue Mages would do more damage with regular magic, but would need someone to replenish the MP more often, ideally. Chances are, though, that Blue Mage would just end up being the best mage late game. Draw Out abilities would then be forced to change formula to be based on PA as well as MA so that Blue Mage isn't so much better with it than others are.

Current Set
Goblin Punch - (PA +65)% success
Fire Bracelet - MA*10
Wind Soul - (MA*(MA+10)/2)
Mimic Titan - 3v1, MA*5 [Edit: Forgot about Earth Clothes, fixed]
Choco Esuna - (MA +60)% success
Clam Spirit - 2v2, (MA +40)% success
Death Sentence - Range 3, (MA +40)% success
Level Blast - Range 4, (MA+75)% success
Nose Bracelet - (MA +80)%
Blaster - (MA +40)% success, may add Don't Move (success of each skill calculate separately: it can cause all three statuses at one time)
Bad Bracelet - 3v0
Drain Touch - (MA +60)% success
Self Destruct
Dark Whisper - 2v1, (MA*(MA+1)/2), hits 6 times randomly
Giga Flare - MA*7
*Ultima(2) - costs MP, but is learned the final (or is it the one right before that?) battle

I will change some of the skills (like Wind Soul) so that they can be learned early on in the game. Above set contains 16 skills, so if I add one skill, another skill comes off.
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on December 09, 2007, 08:27:20 am
Even for low damage, 4v1 Mimic titan is broken.

Ever thought of many Blue Mages spamming Mimic Titan with Earth Clothes equipped?
3v1 is plenty

And blaster will be hard to learn... Unless you equip the proper accessory.  8)
Title:
Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 09, 2007, 10:46:12 am
I'm diggin' it so far.  Can't wait to actually use the mage.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on December 09, 2007, 07:03:36 pm
These changes on skills... are monsters going to be affected too?

I mean... MA * 10 dragons are really going to be scary...
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 09, 2007, 07:23:43 pm
I've increased the MAC for most monsters by quite a bit.

But I do intend to make dragons pretty scary, just not THAT scary.
Title:
Post by: Argg0 on December 09, 2007, 07:58:01 pm
IMO best thing for the Breaths (Bracelets) would be a conic AoE...
....Dragon
------x
-----xxx
----xxxxx

Just like the ability of DK on PSP... though, I doubt that's possible on PSX. =(

Lowering the MA growths for monsters... That will make their MA stagnate for a while, like humans? Or you not changing that much?
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 09, 2007, 08:36:32 pm
Well, I plan on having the dragons more powerful with their attack than any human could be near that level, but the MA may be stagnate. I'm not too sure what you mean by this.

The conic AoE...  I really don't know if I can do that.
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on December 09, 2007, 09:32:49 pm
That's definitely possible but we're not near able to do something of the sort. :?
Title:
Post by: Kourama on December 10, 2007, 08:17:18 am
The Blue Mage skill set looks pretty good and I'm happy that you chose to make Blue Mage like I did. I also noticed that you left out learning any abilities from the birds, can't blame you though since they don't have any great skills that you would be able to learn.

Also from my experience playing FFT with my Blue Mage a lot of the moves are somewhat glitchy and most of the moves have the sprite lose an arm and have a dagger attacking around him going along with the animation. Not really that big of a deal to me but the biggest problem I've found is with the AOE moves.

Mimic Titan, Self Destruct and Giga Flare all slow down considerably when they do damage to enemies. Right after the animation is done the camera centers on each enemy slowly then shows that damage for each enemy 1 at a time. Not really sure if that is something that needs a lot of time to fix just thought it would be something good be aware of early on.
Title:
Post by: Asmo X on December 10, 2007, 08:32:02 am
Oh well. At least it won't be as broken as the Calculator.

Edit: Should have said broken *like* the Calculator. This really doesn't sound as bad as I was expecting from a balance point of view and that's really the bottom line for me.
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 17, 2007, 04:43:33 pm
Quote from: "Kuraudo Sutoraifu"I'm diggin' it so far.  Can't wait to actually use the mage.

o_O I can post the stuff I have right now and call it Beta 2.0 if you would like.
I was kinda waiting on Zodiac to come back w/ his fancy name change program and possibly the location of formulas so I can fix axes, knockback formula, and make new skillz and such. I've revamped ch1 and you can tell me whether I over did it or not. Ch2-4 will still be the same as last beta pretty much.

Oh, and I still haven't made Mystic Knight, Necromancer, or Mounted folk.
Title:
Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 17, 2007, 04:57:26 pm
No big rush, VincentCraven.  I've been playin' alot of Mass Effect lately which has slowed my SSCC progress and my sprite-making progress.  So I don't really need a Beta 2.0, but I'm sure others might enjoy testing/playing it.
Title:
Post by: karsten on December 18, 2007, 02:17:01 am
let's wait for the better :)
Title:
Post by: huthutchuck on December 20, 2007, 01:35:35 am
I agree with Kuraudo.  No rush.  Never let the anxiety of the community rush your work.  It's ready when it's ready.  Besides I'm still playing Firepro Returns to death.
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on December 20, 2007, 07:10:38 am
... I'm still hacking FFT. :O
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 20, 2007, 04:50:35 pm
Oh...

Guess it'll be a while, but that's no problem for me either.
Title:
Post by: huthutchuck on December 21, 2007, 02:15:05 am
If you don't mind me asking Vince, How about a progress report to see what you have done so far?  I'm just curious.  You couldn't have done everything I've seen in the forums.  I just want to make sure there aren't any necromancers on a chocobo breathing conic breaths at people.
Title:
Post by: Xifanie on December 23, 2007, 02:56:35 pm
I'm so ashamed
like a pancake
but not as much as a drake
since for no one's sake
I started playing Xenosaga by mistake
now I can't stop, even if it's piece of cake

I take all the blame, omgwtbbq an earthquake!
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 24, 2007, 07:31:06 pm
Chuck: So far the only things I've done rather new are the Red and Blue Mage. Most of the other stuff includes modifying existing classes and weapons and such. I've started a few things but nothing has been completed recently. My goal was to remove everything broken, make the game difficult, and make all of the player's options worthwhile (aka balancing).

Unfortunately, the more walls I hit, the less I want to work on this thing. In fact, I got sidetracked on Fire Emblem 10 lately and it's much more fun than perusing columns of coding to find formulas and events. There are no necromancers yet, chocobo riding is still only for players, and I have no plans on adding a conic AoE to this patch.
Title:
Post by: Jaakl on December 26, 2007, 07:28:15 am
Beware Vincent because the Dark Whisper makes the next ally or enemy attack unterminable (the game crashes into a nuclear cataclism)

so i wanted you to fix it please, if you not just consider it for the next patch not to occur i recommend to you strongly to test every attack of the blue mage to fix the broken thing and all that stuff

thanks forehand


Jaakl
Title:
Post by: Kourama on December 26, 2007, 06:12:17 pm
Dark Whisper works just fine on my patch, so maybe there is another issue.
Title:
Post by: Jaakl on December 28, 2007, 06:25:28 pm
i have a question

when do you will release the new version of the patch?

thanks
Title:
Post by: VincentCraven on December 31, 2007, 06:33:55 pm
=0

I wouldn't count on any time soon...