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FFT Arena: Item Discussion Thread

Started by PX_Timefordeath, July 13, 2010, 07:29:10 pm

Skip Sandwich

I don't know if you caught this before the time warp, but I have very strong reservations against allowing Two Hands with crossbows, the benefit is simply too strong to allow with ranged weapons, since it makes flare, holy, death, petrify and other ranged single target damage/KO abilities obsolete, since it equals or surpasses the damage potential of all of these, while being instant and free. That's the reason that I put Gastrifitus as earth elemental, since my proposal puts it as a Two Handed  Bow Gun without the extra attack chance, elemental boosting allows the same damage potential as double attack would, but is easier for opponents to mitigate (important since the Gastrifitus can be used with either Attack UP or Concentrate). (it's also a conceptual thing, as the G is literally a giant crossbow/small siege engine/fantasy analog to an Anti-Material Rifle, i.e. something to be fired from a prone position with an aiming brace/bipod or the like)
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

FFMaster

Fair enough. Crossbows to lose 2hands when I can update it.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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The Damned

August 06, 2010, 01:51:10 pm #42 Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 02:05:25 pm by The Damned
Oh, that reminds me of something similar I forgot to mention (alongside forgetting to mention my distaste with the ability to Two Hands a crossbow): Why aren't Guns Forced 2 Hands? It similarly seems unfair to longbows for something that normally can't be evaded to also be able to equip extra evasion and STILL have more range and power.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

PX_Timefordeath

1) They require Equip Shield or Equip Gun to have a shield and a gun
2) More power? Unless you're using a stone gun, I'd say crossbows deal more damage than guns all the time. And everyone knows what Stone Guns do.
3) Guns can now be blocked by Arrow Guard, if you're so worried about guns killing you.

Kaz

I would actually argue that guns are a little too weak since longbows outclass them easily with a little bit of height.
to hell with you mustadio haters

The Damned

I'd be inclined to agree if height weren't such an iffy thing on most maps.

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"2) More power? Unless you're using a stone gun, I'd say crossbows deal more damage than guns all the time. And everyone knows what Stone Guns do.

Crap. I meant more unfair to Longbows. I really have not been proofreading this week at all.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Kaz

for bows, there is 1 that has a range of 6 assuming no height, and the rest are 5.

for guns there are 3 that have a range of 6 regardless of height, and the rest are 5.

And since longbows (from what I've seen) do more damage while also having the height-boosting range, they beat guns for me.
to hell with you mustadio haters

FFMaster

  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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Zaen

"Oh, God!! The Hokuten!!" ~Guard, Sand Rat Cellar

Skip Sandwich

haha, but seriously, by simply shuffling the ability slots around, we could do things like...

Death Penalty: Randomly casts Demi, Demi 2 or Death, WP 20 (enough to give the spells a decent % chance to succeed)

Ether Bolt: draws out the user's life force and fires it as energy, randomly deals PA * 13 damage (25% backlash damage), PA * 26 damage (50% backlash damage), or PA * 39 damage (100% backlash damage).
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

Zaen

I like those ideas as well.

Meteor Gun, Death Penalty, and Ether Bolt. Sweet names for sweet ideas.
"Oh, God!! The Hokuten!!" ~Guard, Sand Rat Cellar

FFMaster

I don't have to shuffle anything. I can just hex edit the spell code and percentages to whatever I want them to be.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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FFMaster

Proposed changes for Items
ITEMS
-All Bows gain 1 WP
-Both Flails Reworked
-Flail Added: 9 WP, Strengthen Water, Water Element
-Flame Ship: 9 WP, Strengthen Fire, Fire Element
-Morning Star: 9 WP, Strengthen Lightning, Lightning Element
-Scorpion Tail Added: 10 WP
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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Skip Sandwich

I don't see the point of Scorpion Tail as is, it does almost the exact same damage, but with no special effects, I suppose that it can't be blocked by elemental protection... what if you drop the WP of the elemental flails to 8?  Thanks to innate element boosting, that's still 80 damage a strike, plus boosted Jutsus, then Scorpion Tail becomes the best flail for straight damage.
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

FFMaster

Fair enough. Elemental Flails down to 8 WP.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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FFMaster

I'm thinking of changing mantles like this. It will give them a lot more use, but would they be too strong?

  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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Skip Sandwich

I like the new breakpoints for Evade/Mevade, but shotgunning elemental absorbtion onto mantles like this seems sort of arbitrary. I mean, I'm all for more playing with elemental affinities, but I don't think this is quite the way to go.  Besides as it stands, Water element is the only one that cannot be absorbed by anything

Earth: Mithril Shield, Earth Clothes
Ice: Ice Shield
Holy: Diamond Helm, Chameleon Robe, Magic Ring
Lighting: Gold Shield, Mace of Zeus
Wind: Platina Helmet, Magic Ring
Fire: Black Costume, Fire Shield
Dark: Undead Ring
Water: big fat nothing

How about this as an alternative?
Small Mantle: P-ev 0, M-ev 24
Initial: Transparent/Slow, Immune: Haste, Absorb: Wind, Weak: Water

Leather Mantle: P-ev 4, M-ev 20
Half: Water, Thunder

Wizard Mantle: P-ev 8, M-ev 16
Strengthen: Wind, Water, Earth

Elf Mantle: P-ev 12, M-ev 12

Dracula Mantle: P-ev 16, M-ev 8
Always: Undead, Absorb: Dark, Weak: Holy, Water

Feather Mantle: P-ev 20, M-ev 4
Always: Float, Strengthen: Wind, Weak: Fire

Vanish Mantle: P-ev 24, M-ev 0
Initial: Transparent/Slow, Immune: Haste, Absorb: Water, Weak: Wind

We also need more abilities that deal water-element damage, right now it's limited to Suiton and Leviathan, as well as Grand Cross with a water element weapon (is Grand Cross flagged as Requires Sword? Gunso never used it in Knights Errant, and there's no mention of it in the Special column of the abilities list, so I was wondering. Even though I first proposed it as a pesudo-swordskill, I really intended it to be weapon type independent, so that it might be a reward for fielding an uncommon equipment build for a physical unit, such as Gunso as a paladin with Equip Gun)
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

FFMaster

The problem with your setup is that I don't have enough Item space left. I have 5 free spaces left, and 2 of the spaces I can use again using my setup, since other items have the same attributes. Once those 5 are burned up, the rest of the items added in will have to be plain weapons or use an existing attribute.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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secondadvent

It seems to me that the Wizard Robe is fairly low on overall stats compared to the other robes (other robes 125-130 total HP/MP, some with bonuses, and Wizard Robe has a measly 72 total with MA + 2), which I think could do well with a slight increase to 55-60 HP/25-30 MP, which still isn't much, but is better than where it stands now.

Even if you leave the above where it is, it would still be nice to have a MA + 1 option for the robes, similar to what the clothes have (with around 60-65 HP/35-40 MP or so), just to have something else to use for MA instead of the Wizard Robe/Outfit.

Xifanie

You know, I think there's too much emphasis on: Add 1 or 2 status protection and lower the HP by 30. It's simply not worth it.

I'll start to CONSIDER status protection if the item has 10 less HP than the best gear (if status protection is its only pro).
Clothes are all fine.
Golden/Diamond armor are just utter trash. There are many things that can cancel Petrify and you only need one person with Holy Water in your team for undead.
Then Mythril/Gold/Crystal/Genji helmet.... all trash.

If you really want to make status protection worth something, you have to be able to build a setup that can resist nearly all negative statuses; whoever that would require all your item slots. Protection for Petrify alone? I can understand. As for the others you should have stuff that protects at least against 3-4 statuses.

Also for creativity you can have items that prevents good statuses. For example armor that grants more HP but immunity to haste: It would encourage non-haste setups.
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