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Messages - Gaignun

41
FFT Arena / Re: What should happen to counter flood?
November 20, 2016, 06:42:15 pm
I vote for option two.  Counter Flood is really effective even when it isn't getting its numbers wrong.  Counter Comet would be equivalent to an AoE, damage, and status proc nerf, but it still keeps its unique role at punishing Time and Yin Yang Magic teams.

At any rate, removing/replacing counter flood would let us tune geomancy damage as if it is a proper one-use-per-turn skill and not a one-use-plus-another-for-every-daring-opponent-who-chooses-to-attack-the-Counter-Flood-user skill.
42
Quote from: Barren on November 07, 2016, 04:48:01 am
I did make this team with little thought because I couldn't really come up with a fresh idea despite the fact that there were new things to try so I went with what worked in the past. What frustrates the hell out of me is that no matter how much I adapt to new patches or good I strive to be, I can never make a championship quality team. I know it may sound petty to some but ever since I got close to winning back in Season 1, (I almost made it to the Grand Finals), I was inspired to keep trying. And while I may have been a consistent performer I can never get that close again. Let alone win the whole tourney. My luck really turned rotten this season due to horrible matchups, bad map selection that puts my team in a heavy disadvantage, and most importantly, how dumb my AI acted in the end. I don't know if I'll enter next tourney or not. I probably just need a break from competitive team building for the time being. When I clear me head, I'll be back for sure



The championship team is not necessarily the most interesting team.  Rather, it is typically the team that uses the most broken setup.  One of my favourite teams this season is CT5Holy's with its Draw Out Monk.  I wouldn't say it is the strongest team of the lot, but its use of PA-based AoE is fascinating.

Looking back on my own championship (way back in the dinosaur ages of FFT 1.3), I attribute my success to my Draw Out + Abandon Wizard.  That thing was broken af: its low HP and stupidly high evasion made it an AI trap.

Then, in FFTA season 1, I made it to the championship round on the strength of a Holy spamming Bard.  Back then Holy pierced M-Ev.  Little wonder Holy got nerfed during the following patch!

After awhile, spellgun spam was the dominant strategy.  Didn't we have a single class tournament a year or two ago in which spellgun-toting mediators and chemists cleaned house?

The nice thing about the current tournament is that every player is guaranteed six matches in spite of performance.  I was originally going to try a stupid 15 SP Jump spam strategy before chickening out and putting all my chips on Chirijiraden and Raise 2 (again).  If we have another Swiss tournament in the future, I think I need to be more stupid.

It is always nice to see your teams, Barren, but I understand the value of a break.  Hopefully there will be a new patch with a new box of toys to play with when you return.
43
Nice team.  Lich and Ligntning Bow really hurt.
44
FFT Arena / Re: Arena Map Alterations and Suggestions
October 12, 2016, 06:42:09 pm
I feel that not only the distance between starting positions, but also the total number of traversible tiles determines map size.  For example, in Gate of Lesalia, teams have the ability to disperse into either moat; in Lenalia Plateau, teams tend to fight atop the hill, but retreat toward the water.  Heavy AoE teams will perform much worse in these wide maps than in confined ones like the Pub.

Arena could be a medium map if we start teams at opposite corners.

Concerning large maps, we should be careful not to relabel too many as medium.  The pool of large maps is small enough as it is. And considering that tournament map order is typically small->large->medium, the medium maps tend to be underplayed.  Not every large map can feel as big as Zeklaus Desert.
45
Quote from: White Knight Wiegraf on October 10, 2016, 03:51:23 pm
For tiebreakers, I suggest to refer to the scores on the right of the table. For instance, someone who's 3-3 but constantly has been winning with 2-1 and losing 0-2 is, in my view, lower ranked than another 3-3 player who's won his matches 2-0 and lost 1-2.


I am in agreement here.  I haven't done any math, but I suspect that we will have deal with tied scores even with a larger elimination bracket.  Tiebreaking is what the Buchholz and Points Difference systems are used to resolve.

Nevertheless, a larger elimination is bracket is fine provided our hosts have the time and energy to conduct it.
46
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
October 12, 2016, 05:40:03 am
I am fully in agreement with elevating Basic Skill to the level of... every other skill set.

Adjusting female Squires' PA and MA: If we change the female Squire's PA/MA to 7/9, then I believe we would incidentally change the male Squire's PA/MA to 9/7.  This co-dependence is why we currently have so many (generally) useless jobs in Arena (e.g., male wizard, female monk).

Bullrush: Oddly enough, I myself have considered making Bullrush unevadable.  Both this and making it cancel Protect and Shell are good ideas to me.  If Protect and Shell inherit the Refresh status as a priority flag (so that the AI uses Protect and Shell at the start of battle as they ought to), then Bullrush will have a solid role in the metagame.

Heal: In addition to adding Cancel: Undead, I would also love to see this skill receive +1 Range to put it on par with Wish.

Yell: Absolutely in favour of a redesign.  Silentkaster's critical-only heal skill is a nice idea.

Wish: I agree that this skill is the worst method of revival.  Having it ignore the Undead status wouldn't change this, but at least it would give it a niche application on Undead teams.  Perhaps we could turn Wish into the proposed Phoenix Pinion skill as an alternative.

Ultima: I think the problem has more to do with Chiri being overpowered than Ultima being underpowered.  Chiri walks all over not only Ultima, but Muramasa, as well.  If I had it my way, I would drop Chiri's damage from MA*9 to MA*8 and its JP cost from 400 to 200~300.  Then, Muramasa would become the sole MA*9 Draw Out skill.  Comparison of Ultima and Muramasa is much more charitable towards Ultima.
47
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
October 04, 2016, 05:58:32 am
@ gatebuster:

I like those clothes suggestions.

@ silentkaster:

I like your suggestions, too.  I would like to make two comments:

Holy/Dark Holy damage: Would it not be more consistent to make Dark Holy one point weaker than Holy?  Dark Holy is Nether Holy in all but name, and all Nether spells on Black Magic are one point weaker than their variants.  This is done to balance the safety of low brave with the risks of high faith.

Holy/Dark strengthening robe: I don't find the MP boost of a Holy/Dark strengthening robe a problem, given that we've had Black Robe for ages without any trouble. Nevertheless, making it clothes is OK with me, too.  No strong opinions here.
48
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
October 02, 2016, 01:03:18 pm
Might as well post what I believe are priorities as well.  I'll intentionally keep this short:



  • Ninja lose flails OR Scorpion Tail reverts to 11 WP

  • Swap Time Mage and Summoner base HP





  • Give one skill Remove: Undead.  (Among the existing skills, Heal and Misogi are the best candidates.)

  • Buff Shuriken

  • Make offensive Punch Art formula linear to avoid runaway damage on Punch Art users that accumulate PA

  • Nerf Spin Fist slightly (e.g., remove smart targeting or reduce Vert to 0.)

  • Move Heretic to Ninjutsu

  • Fix Roulette somehow

  • Merge Caution and Awareness reaction abilities

  • Move Balance to Lore

  • Move Holy to Black Magic.  Move one or more Black status magic to another job if skill space is needed.

  • Remove Add: Regen from Masamune ONLY IF Regen and Refresh are merged.  In this event, change targeting from linear to AoE to compensate

  • Turn Lore into random fire AoE

  • Dance: Fix it!





  • Revert Scorpion Tail WP to 11 OR Ninja lose flail access

  • Nerf spell guns slightly (e.g., reduce WP or turn spell guns into books)

  • Redesign cloths to fulfill some unique role

  • Remove Hidden Knife from the game if it causes magic to pierce MEv

  • Make Rune Blade a bag OR remove Rune Blade from the game if Regen and Refresh are merged





  • Slightly nerf Aegis Shield

  • Slightly buff Genji Shield





  • Change Golden Hairpin from Strengthen: Holy, Dark to Halve: Holy, Dark.  Move Strengthen: Holy, Dark to a new or redesigned robe





  • Change Slow to -33% SP. Increase its CT if necessary.

  • Merge Regen and Refresh, as well as Poison and Sap




Other changes people think are essential are fine, too.
49
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
October 01, 2016, 12:58:51 am
Apologies for the double post.

How might we obtain consensus on changes for the next patch?  There are currently a ton of suggestions in the suggestions list as of 25 September. Many of these suggestions are incompatible.  (Shuriken alone has four separate suggestions.) Still many more are contingent on the implementation of others.  It would be infeasible to vote on each and every suggestion.

Might I suggest we isolate the skills, equipment, and jobs in most dire need of change and focus on only those in the next patch?  Smaller matters, as well as matters that might require extensive work (e.g., creating new active and RSM skills), could be relegated to a future patch.
50
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 23, 2016, 03:51:04 pm
I can get behind that.  Something like

Bronze Shield: 15 PEv, 15 MEv, Immune: Blind

PEv is boosted by 5 to put the shield on par with the other options.  We can discuss the exact Ev values later.  Apart from Grand Cross, the shield can also be used to counter Blind Rage, etc.
51
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 23, 2016, 11:41:26 am
That's a good point.  I wanted Blind immuniy on a shield so Geomancers and Squires can use GC without depending on Blind immunity from an accessory, but it's true that many GC builds will get a +1 PA buff and some among them will reach 15 PA.  Would the shield be better if it (1) didn't have +1 PA, or (2) didn't have Blind immunity?

52
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 23, 2016, 05:31:48 am
@ gatebuster

Swift Plate
I was under the impression that Swift Plate is gaining Immune: Haste to penalize SP stacking, and Immune: Slow so that Slow is not incurable.

Robes & MP Switch
What about the robe wearers who don't use MP Switch?   I don't believe that MP Switch is so potent that we need to weaken an entire class of armor to accommodate it. The cost of using MP Switch is the opportunity cost of all other reaction abilities, as well as the real probability of losing turns restoring lost MP, which is far less efficient than restoring lost HP.

Elemental gear & self-absorption
I am of the opinion that element-themed teams trade offensive healing for (1) restricted equipment options, (2) inaccessibility of evasion gear (e.g., you can't absorb friendly Kotetsu well if your M-Ev is through the roof), and (3) vulnerability to elemental defense (e.g., White Robe, clothes, hats, and accessories).

There was a time when Brigandine's HP was only around 10 higher than the absorption clothes. At that time, many players chose the absorption clothes over Brigandine even if they didn't run self-absorption strategies because the security against possible enemy elemental damage was worth the cost of 10 HP. (E.g., In season 2 circa Summer 2013, 37 units equipped one of the 100 HP absorption clothes; meanwhile, only 8 equipped Brigandine).

To make Brigandine more attractive, it received a 20 HP buff.  This buff had the intended effect: In season 5, only 18 units equip one of the 100 HP absorption clothes, whereas 12 equip Brigandine.  The ratio of absorption clothes to Brigandine has swung from 4.6:1 in season 2 to 1.5:1 in season 5.  I would say that this is a nice balance.

Excalibur Grand Cross & Monkey Grip
Monkey Grip carries the opportunity cost of losing Attack UP. In this case, Excalibur can no longer compete with Phoenix Blade or Ice Brand paired with Attack UP.  A Holy absorption accessory would be viable were Holy absorption not on Magic Ring, which is a lackluster choice for PA-based units.

@ silentkaster

You're right about Slow immunity.  I didn't notice that Genji Helm and Diamond Armor gained Slow immunity!

Concerning Genji Shield, the buff is to put it on par with a weakened form of Aegis Shield. I think these two shields could lose even more PEv/MEv, though (e.g., down to 20/0 and 0/20 or somewhere in between).

Ditto on Gaian Shield looking a little strong.  Unless we are ready to welcome 170 damage Carve Models, I suggest we reconsider its PA/MA +1.
53
Was that Butterfree holding a FS Bag?  He was only a schoolboy!  Barren how could you?
54
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 20, 2016, 08:59:08 am
In general I am in favour with shuffling around the elemental properties.  I can take or leave MP bonuses on armor.  (In my opinion, low mana pools ought to be a weakness among heavy armor classes; that's why they have robes.) However, I am noticing a trend among the HP and MP changes.  Let me elaborate:

Among the +XA gear:

  • Both +XA hats and clothes receive +5 HP with the exception of Secret Clothes, which is unchanged.

  • +XA helmets receive +15 MP

  • +XA armor receive +10 MP


Among absorption/strengthening gear:

  • Flash Hat and Golden Hairpin receive -10 MP

  • Absorption clothes receive -10 HP

  • Earth Clothes and Chameleon Robe bite the dust


So, in summary, elemental gear gets nerfed and +XA gear gets buffed?  Are elemental teams currently too strong in the meta?

I am not sure how I feel about the removal of Earth Clothes and Chameleon Robe.  Removing Chameleon Robe will effectively remove Excalibur Grand Cross Paladins from the meta and leave Excalibur stranded.  Removing Earth Clothes will definitely reduce the prevalence of Earth absorb teams.  I never saw a problem with either :/

Next, concerning robes, I notice that a higher premium is being placed on the MP bonuses.

+2 MA gear (Wizard Outfit and Wizard Robe)
1.40: +40 MP costs 15 HP
Proposal: +40 MP costs 25 HP

+1 XA gear (Heavy armor and Priest Cassock)
Proposal: +30 MP costs 40 HP  (The addition of 1 PA/MA is largely inconsequential to all but Geomancy)

+1 MA robes (Linen Robe changing to Priest Cassock)
Proposal: -15 HP (Straight nerf to all but Geomancy)

+0 XA gear (Brigandine and Silk Robe)
1.40: +30 MP costs 15 HP
Proposal: +40 MP costs 40 HP

MP is one of those stats you don't care how much you have as long as you have enough.  On the other hand, HP is a stat that can never be high enough.  Consequently, HP is more valuable than MP.

There was a time several years ago when we thought otherwise, and most robes had far less HP.  Robes back then sucked.  Only recently (patch 1.37? 1.38?) did we give these robes more HP and bring them out of obscurity.   By slashing robes' HP and leaving the likes of Brigandine and Black Hood unchanged, I fear we'll slip back into those dark days.

Last, I like the shield changes, but I wonder if giving Swift Plate both Slow and Stop resistance is a bit overkill.  I personally am fine with just Slow resistance.
55
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 11, 2016, 02:27:22 am
It's pretty tough for me to make definitive statements about that cost/benefit analysis, but I can scrap together a few statements about how much more potent I think White Magic is.

(1) Raise 2 is the most potent way of recovering from a defensive position.  You spend one turn reviving a fallen unit.  If your opponent then spends more than one turn knocking out that revived unit, you run a turn surplus which can be put toward offense or further defense. 

Phoenix Down cannot do this.  Not only will the revived unit require a second turn to be healed, but this unit will be killed in one hit before being healed, and possibly even after if your opponent has heavy hitters. At best you trade a turn with your opponent.  At worst the revived unit gets healed and still dies, dies in an AoE attack which incidentally harms/knocks out other teammates, or dies on its own turn to Poison.  In all cases you run turn-deficits.

Of course the unique downside of Raise 2 is its long CT.

(2) A Cure spell can heal multiple targets.  Heal two targets with a 130 HP Cure and you already run a one-turn surplus over X-Potion.  In addition, Cure, unlike X-Potion, can be used to manage AoE damage.

So, to summarize, optimized White Magic provides:

  • Efficient resurrection

  • Higher healing

  • AoE damage management


For the cost of:

  • Slow resurrection

  • High faith, requiring Setiemson and/or MEv



I suppose the only way to prove if the benefits outweigh the costs is by running a big analysis on Item and White Magic teams to see which team wins more on average.  Luckily, we are blessed with selfless hosts and many teams with a good mix of Item and White Magic this season.  How about we observe how these teams do?
56
FFT Arena / Re: Dancer Skill Set Rework?
September 09, 2016, 04:23:02 am
I would like to propose a slight change to Square Dance.

Square Dance: Turns every spellgunner into crystal. 255 AoE.


Edit: Now for something completely serious.  I like the idea behind the proposal in general, but I would like to offer a little critique.

Wiznaibus & Sword Dance
We should probably decide on one or the other.  Some might not realise this, but even the names of these two skills are similar.  Wiznaibus is a blind-idiot translation of With Knives in Japanese phonology.

Tap Dance
If this skill can be used to interrupt charging and performing, I propose we call it Slam Dance in honour of FFVI's human-loving, fast-talking, street-smart, SLAM-dancing moogle to highlight its disruptive properties.

Dance charging/performing & CT
Will these skills be performed with long CTs as before?  If so, I wonder how the AI will respond to this.  For example, if a Dancer winds up a 6 CT, 2 AoE Wiznaibus, will the AI treat the tiles around this Dancer as a dead zone?
57
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 08, 2016, 11:20:07 am
Some brief responses.

Quote from: silentkaster on September 07, 2016, 12:42:29 pm
Since [Recover] does nothing except regain HP for a critical unit, it is a combination of a handicapped version of HP Restore and Nurse, but both working in tandem make a viable ability. One of the disadvantages of Nurse is that the AI will use it even on minor injuries (even when Move-HP up or existing Regen will put them back to full in some cases) or as set up even when more prioritized actions could be done.  This skill gives the AI an option where if in critical, it can restore its own HP some, but it must waste a turn in order to do so, (unlike HP Restore) and it won't be spammed.


I acknowledge the point against Nurse.

Could we at least combine this skill with Yell?  This would feel satisfactory in two ways: (1) It repurposes Yell, which is currently a turn sink. (Yell spends 100 CT to provide a single (sub 12 SP) unit with 96 CT over the following 48 clock ticks. This yields no net positive benefit unless it incidentally cures Slow.) (2) It helps differentiate the skill from Nurse.

Next, regarding Haste/Slow 2...

Quote from: silentkaster on September 07, 2016, 12:42:29 pm
I'd rather be consistent here, especially if closing the gap on JP.


I would hate to nerf Haste 2 out of the meta purely because it and Slow 2 have similar names.  I think we have achieved a nice balance of the relative costs and benefits of Haste and Haste 2.  The even distribution of Haste and Haste 2 in the present tournament (8 units know Haste, 10 units know Haste 2) is evidence of this.

Finally...

Quote from: silentkaster on September 07, 2016, 12:42:29 pm
[White Magic spells] really don't [beat items hands down]. Cure on a Priest's base MA only restores, even with a faith boost, 77 HP. Yes, it's AOE but 77 HP is often counter productive and requires two turns on the AI's part if they live that long.


We need to consider optimized cases.  My 21 MA Bard in Season 5 heals himself for over 160 HP with Cure 1.  If Cure 1 heals for 77 HP, I wouldn't have bothered learning it.  This optimization comes at a cost.  In the case of my Bard, this cost was high Faith and an accessory slot to cover this high Faith.  Of course, it would have been cheaper to drop my Bard to 40 Faith and use X-Potion instead.  I decided that the cost of a more potent Cure was nevertheless worth it. 

It's like Chirijiraden: It hits for only 90 damage at 10 MA, but it would be foolish to balance it on the supposition that it is equal in strength to Cover Fire because you'll never see anyone with less than 15 MA using Chirijiraden.
58
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 07, 2016, 09:12:19 am
Could we change the formula from SP*X to something else, like (X*SP+Y) or (X*PA+Y)?  This is a cool formula because the Y is not reduced by Defense UP nor Protect.
59
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
September 07, 2016, 04:55:49 am
Glad to hear your input, silentkaster.

Merging Dancerbards: I don't mind merging the two jobs, nor allowing them to equip each other's weapons.  However, unless the algorithm which determines the stats of each sex has been unraveled, I don't believe we will be able to maintain 12 PA on female dancerbards, 8 PA on male dancerbards, etc.

Recover on Squires: I understand the need to keep units out of critical.  I only wish we can create something that isn't a handicapped version of Nurse.  Otherwise, what is stopping us from giving a recover skill to every job?

Shuriken: If it isn't any trouble, why don't we have the skill throw a series of 4 shurikens?  This way we keep the damage of 1.39 Shuriken, but prevent targeting through walls.

Haste/Slow: How about swapping the accuracies of only Slow and Slow 2?  The accuracy of Haste 2 isn't really a problem.

Bow Gun: Yeah, 20% Add: Dead is fine.  25% Add: Dead is even better.

10 SP Time Mages: 10 SP allows a Time Mage to cast 2 CT spells before 8 SP units get their first turn.  This is great for applying Haste before the 8 SP units disperse from their starting positions.  As for Sinkhole, it isn't much better on 9 SP Time Mages either.  Sinkhole works truly best on 8 SP units against other 8 SP units.

Scholar equipment: In the event that scholars get shields, I would prefer they lose hat access in order to prevent stacking the MA of Aegis Shield and Holy Miter.

Item and White Magic: I can't speak for others, but I don't think White Magic is unequivocally better than Item.  As you mentioned, Item can restore Berserk, Undead, and Stop.  However, aside from those ailments, White Magic is unequivocally more potent than Item.  For the significant cost of running a high-faith team, Cure 1 beats X-Potion and Raise 2 beats Phoenix Down hands down.

New skills on Item: Given the versatility of White Magic, which consists of a mixture of offensive and defensive skills, I am reluctant to the idea of putting offensive skills (damage or status) on Item.  A damage skill in particular will likely be overlooked by the AI, as Item users typically have other, more effective means of dealing single-target damage.  I think reducing the JP cost of status healing, and perhaps introducing an improved form of Phoenix Down, will be enough.

Cursed Ring: Cursed Ring was OP in 1.38 precisely because of its SP boost, which has never been nerfed.  Players would make 10~12 SP units with Cursed Ring, so while you attempt to finish off the rest of the team, the Cursed Ring units chew through the countdown clock, auto-revive, and get a free turn.  For this reason, giving Cursed Ring an extra point of SP and/or increasing the revival chance is a step backward in my opinion.  Removing its Fire weakness is OK, though.

Making Raise 2 evadeable: I believe this would also make friendly units evade their own Raise 2.

Edit: Cursed Ring Suggestion: Remove Weak: Fire and Always: Undead. Add Always: Poison and Immune: Regen.  We might as well remove Hyper Wrist from the game at the same time, since this form of Cursed Ring will be superior.  Not sure how popular this suggestion will be.
60
Great work on finishing Round 1, everybody.  There are still five rounds ahead of us, so make sure you don't burn yourselves out.