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R/S/M Wish List and Discussion

Started by Pickle Girl Fanboy, April 15, 2012, 06:44:04 pm

Pickle Girl Fanboy

April 15, 2012, 06:44:04 pm Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 06:21:45 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
I was chatting with FDC about the viability of my wish list of R/S/M abilities, and he mentioned that I should remind him to code the "Geomancy" support, since it would be somewhat easy to do and other people wanted it.

I'll post my wish list, and FDC will post his.  You can post yours, comment on ours, and join in the discussion.  All are welcome.

And I'm aware that I made another such topic a few years ago, but I don't want to necrobump it, and this topic is explicitly for discussing things FDC wants to implement, so I decided to make a new topic, after talking to FDC about it.  So nyah.

Layout of my wish list:
Breakdown of original abilities, followed by modified abilities.  They aren't quite segregated into R/S/M - there's quite a bit of overlap - so it might be a little confusing.  Tell me if anything confuses you, and I'll attempt to clarify it.

Also, I'm including Razele's screencaps since most of mine are derived from his.  RIP Razele.

The Damned

(This reminds me how much I need to re-organize my Excel documents just to redact them.)

Do you mind saying which ones are yours alone, Pickle Boy Fangirl. Currently, I can't tell which ones are yours versus the ones that Razele left behind. Also, your "duplicate R_S_M_abilities.txt" has completely FUBAR'd spacing.

Of the ones in that list, though, I still can't really get behind these ones:

1. Speed Up: Way too big of a constant bonus. It seems like it needs to be less than < 20 CT due to that being the amount get for not Acting or Moving (in Vanilla), if not less than < 15 CT. Also seems like it might have too odd of an interaction with Quick.

2. Bloodfeud: It seems a bit much, especially since it would probably work with all manner of weapons--when so far I don't think I've seen anyone willing to have a draining weapon with range more than 3 (ala Bloody Strings)--and Counter and such. It could work since 40% is a lot less obnoxious than the current 100% drain of such weapons, but it's still something that I'm rather wary of.

3. Execute: I'm personally not a fan of the player having access to anything can straight out add Dead, even if this is conditional. Maybe it if worked only Critical units rather than Critical units that it knocked into Critical, but even then I'd still be wary of as Bloodfeud above:

4. Flee & Bloodlust: I'm not opposed to the concept of these, especially since I'm currently using a form of Flee in Embargo. It's just that they really need to be less generous with the amount of HP that they activate at. I also don't think that Flee should +3 Movement; +4 movement just seems a bit...much.

5. "Buff-Copier?": The wording is rather nebulous. If this works on more than one enemy at a time, then it might be rather problematic. It might still be problematic depending on the rate that this happens and the CT for which such positive statuses last.

6. "Height?": Still seems kinda weak given the average map's max height difference is probably only like a difference of 4...near the corners. Not every map is Zirekile after all. Jump-based movements seem the most difficult to do, especially if you're keeping Fly around.

7. Teleport: I can't really bring myself to get behind 100% movement anywhere even if it does cost one their Action for the turn. It seems like it would get even more obnoxious/abusive depending on certain reactions and set-ups, including Quick.

8. Disperse: Outside of Confuse and Frog being obnoxious with their currently infinite CT, this seems rather to rather arbitrarily screw over other statuses that are already kinda weak (at least in Vanilla) sans Slow. However, Slow especially doesn't need to be repeatedly cancelled given how much the AI favor's casting it. I can easily see a couple of enemies getting stuck in stupid Action lists by trying to recast Slow every turn until they either double turn you or get killed; given many, if not most, of these enemies would be mages in most patches, the latter seems likely.


Those nine are the only other ones I take especial issue with at present. I guess that I should probably add my own list if I'm being so judgmental (as always). I'll just do on the forums, though, since I'm too lazy to make yet another document just separately for it just to post as a separate attachment, especially when I'm not even finished with my list yet, mostly the Movement-related stuff.

Also, a bit of this is going to be redacted still, mostly instances where it's stuff that I haven't coded yet status-wise. Also, it's due to the fact that I have to elaborate more than in the current Notepad document I separated all my plans into where I'm currently working on Summon Magick and weapons (in the Excel documents).

As with Status Effects, I'm going to try to make it so that Reactions, Supports and Movements are all the same part of speech. As such, all Reactions & Movements are currently planned to be verbs while Supports will remain Nouns:

For the most part, I actually used up most of my reaction space surprisingly. It think my current reaction list is too passive/relies too heavily on adding positive status to self, but meh.


In-Use Reactions:

1. A Save --> PA Save? [Now: Accumulate: +1 PA. Caps at a maximum of 50% original PA, perhaps lower. This would mostly be via Xifanie's Maintenance hack. Probably.]

2. MA Save --> MA Save? [Now: Focus: +1 MA. Caps at a maximum of 50% original MA, perhaps lower. This would mostly be via Xifanie's Maintenance hack. Probably.]

3. Speed Save --> Adrenaline [Now: Accelerate?: +15-20 CT given I bitched at most everyone about how stupid it was when it was around in its original form and given that ARENA changed/fixed it already....]

4. Sunken State --> Hide [Now: Hide: Currently adds Transparent status as its original, but given that status is up in the air, this may die. It will probably be replaced with whatever replaces Transparent.]

5. Caution --> Caution? [Now: Cover?: Currently adds Defending status as its original, but given that status is up in the air, this may die. It will might be replaced with whatever replaces Defending, though that might end up being an offensive status, which wouldn't do well to add to one's self.]

6. Dragon Spirit --> Dragon Spirit [Now: Resuscitate?: Currently adds Reraised status as its original, but given that status is up in the air, this may die. It will possibly replaced with whatever replaces Reraised. Even if Reraised survives, this may still die.]

7. Regenerator --> Regenerator [Now: Regenerate: Pretty damn obvious that this is still its original. That won't change, though it/Regen might need even a bit more power still.]

8. Brave Up --> Bravery Up? [Now: Encourage: ????]

9. Face Up --> Faith Up? [Now: Endure: Currently planned to add Faithful status to unit. May end up being too overpowered even though Faithful has drawbacks and has been scaled down considerably, but increments +X or -X minus Faith (or "Brave") won't really work for what I planned....]

10. HP Restore --> Second Wind? [Now: Revitalize?: Currently the same, which is why it's probably going to die. I honestly can't think of anyway to keep this around without it being overpowered if I'm "fixing" damage.]

11. MP Restore --> Mist Frenzy? [Now: Enshroud: Currently planned to add Misty to user, though given that it's more and more likely that Misty may end up having infinite CT, it might end up overpowered or too abusive, even if an alternative to Move-MP Up would be nice outside of equipment.]

12. Critical Quick --> [Now: Critically Quicken: The same as ever. It might get a slight boost, though, since basically ever SOS-Reaction save HP Restore kinda sucks, with Critical Quick being the second best by default. Also, needs a better name.]

13. Meatbone Slash --> Bonecrusher [Now: Counter Comet/Meteor: This also needs a better name, but rather self-evident what it does.]

14. Counter Magic --> [Now: Return Magick: Currently the same. Also currently considering killing this and just having Counter Comet/Meteor be my "return magic", since even as much as I like Counter Magic, it's rather...problematic to things I want to do for quite a few reasons.]
 
15. Counter Tackle --> Counter Dash [Now: Pushback: Currently the same, though Dash has been buffed and will likely get buffed even more, so it's actually improved.]

16. Counter Flood --> [Now: Gaea Revenge/Gaia Revenge: Currently planned to be the same...except that 12 abilities will consolidated into 6 and Geomancy will otherwise probably be reduced to a Support if it's actively useable at all. As such, this at present is the only surely way to use Geomancy; it's also technically part of the reason that Counter Magic may end up ultimately dying.]

17. Absorb Used MP --> [Now: Mana Pool: ????]

18. Auto Potion   --> Auto-Potion [Now: [Self]-Medicate: Still the same. Still considering capping it at Hi-Potion only, though.]

19. Counter -->   Counter [Now: Counter: ...It's Counter.]

20. [Blank RSM 1] --> Awareness [This should really be more a Support IMO.]

21. Distribute --> Distribute? [Now: Share Blessings: Currently the same. However, I am still wondering if I should try to make it activate on self-healing. That seems like it would be really abusive (for the player), though. There seems like there "should" be some happy medium though....]

22. MP Switch --> Mana Shield [To be Enemy Only, unless perhaps the overflow issue was done on a 1 HP to 2 MP basis. Even then, considering how much MP I'm planning for my humans and monsters to have even before equipment, it would probably be obnoxious.]

23. Damage Split --> Karma? [Now: Share Pains: Will probably return less than 50% damage. I also though of a way to "fix" it otherwise.]

24. Weapon Guard --> Weapon Guard [Innate Only for everyone now.]

25. Finger Guard --> Iron Will [Now: Steel Will: Still blocks everything that uses 2A, though that's more than just Talk Skill/Speechcraft since it includes things like Fear/Dread and at least dozen other abilities. It might still need broadening, though.]

26. Abandon -->   Abandon? [This is also more a Support since it's basically Evasion Up. I might confine it to physical evasion only and have one for M-EV, but that seems a bit too split.]

27. Blade Grasp --> Blade Grasp? [Now: Catch Blades: Lame name, but I can't exactly use Shirahadori given Embargo's story. Met just catch (bladed) melee right now. Not going to be available to generics.]

28. Arrow Guard --> Arrow Guard? [Now: Catch Arrows: Equally lame, but "Archer's Bane" isn't exactly a verb unfortunately. This won't be affecting guns since those aren't even generic weapons. Additionally, since Greatbows are probably dying, this currently only really affects Longbows and Crossbows again, which is rather...weak. I may make it block more distance weapons like Books or Instruments or Rods. Not sure. I'm slightly more sure, however, that if Throw returns, then this will combine with Catch, though that's still rather weak...]


Unused Reactions:

1. Gilgame Heart --> ???? [I really kind want a reaction or at least an ability that uses Gil, but it might end up broken or at least obnoxious if actually works to circumvent damage so that it's actually useful to the AI.]

2. Reflect [UNUSED] --> ???? [A have couple of ideas, but both of those involve positive statuses still.]

3. Catch --> ???? [Currently useless. If Throw returns, then as said above, it's getting folded into Catch Arrows (if possible).]

4. Hamedo --> ???? [Technically currently still in use, but only by an enemy or two. It might die completely, though I'm not sure what to replace it with if/when it does.]


Despite most of these being nouns already, I haven't thought of any names I like for most of them. I might just combine all the Equip X abilities into Equip All Weapons and Equip All Armor, but we'll see.

In-Use Supports:

1. Equip Armor --> Equip Armor [IIRC, it's still the same unfortunately.]

2. Equip Shield --> Equip Shield [I don't recall changing this either given how it's a lot less straightforward than the other weapon types to combine. After all, the most "appropriate" thing to do would be to combine it with Equip Armor, but that's already pretty much the only useful/used Equip X ability, so....]

3. Equip Sword --> Equip Sword? [I believe I was currently pondering having this allow use of Knightswords. At present, I believe it's just Swords & Knives though.]

4. Equip Katana --> Equip ???? [Not sure. It will probably just end up being equip Magegear+Hats considering that everyone can currently innately use Clothes/Clothing.]

5. Equip Crossbow --> Equip (Lesser) Bow [Currently combines only Longbows & Crossbows since even before I decided recently that I'm probably killing Greatbows, those were going to be exclusive to Archer/Marksman.]

6. Equip Spear --> Equip Polearms [Currently combines only Spears & Poles. It might end up being more.]

7. Equip Axe --> Equip Blade? [This might also combine Knives with Axes & Hammers. Rather unsure. I might just have Axes & Hammers & Staves combine since Maces are dead as odd as that seems.]

8. Equip Gun --> Equip Gun? [This would be non-generic only, though that seems like a vast-wise since it would only be on, at most, five or six special characters the player can get.]

9. Half of MP --> 75% of MP? [Now: Channeling?: Halving MP costs seems rather inappropriate as it is, even before Misty is around and before the fact that I'm raising MP all around rather dramatically. I still want people to be able to run out of MP, so....]

10. Attack UP --> Attack UP? ["Attack Boost" is a rather lame name.]

11. Defense UP --> Defense UP? ["Defense Boost" is a rather lame name. Also, it's been reduced to 25% since forever ago.]

12. Magic Att. UP --> MA UP [Now: Arcane Boost?: As above, needs a better name.]

13. Magic Def. UP --> MAD UP [Now: Arcane Defense?: As above, needs a better name. Also, it's been reduced to 25% as of forever ago.]

14. Train --> Train?/Tame?/Capture? ["Tame" is apparently the name in PSP's WotL, but that's not exactly a noun. Regardless, this might die outright since I'm already planned a bunch of random encounter auto-Invite battles and I could probably use the status space for something else since formerdeathcorps says that Invite still needs that space even if it's not actively used. If I could make Invite akin to Quick where it wouldn't need a status spot to still activate the flag, then this might stay.]

15. Secret Hunt --> Secret Hunt?/Poach? [Kinda unfair to monsters, but it seems like it will stay, especially with Treasure gone. I'm just not sure how to make it more fair to monsters in terms of being able to be revived.]

16. Monster Talk --> Beast Tongue? [Rather necessary for 2A to function on monsters still. Possibly needs more "oomph"...though I just thought of something.]

17. Throw Item --> Throw Item? [It has been reduced to a range of 3. As overpowered as still think Chemists are, this might need a bit more power.]

18. Maintenance --> Maintenance [Plan to use Xifanie's hack for this. Otherwise, the same.]

19. Two Hands --> Doublegrip?/Doublehand? [This is getting a power reduction. Otherwise the same.]

20. Two Swords --> Dual Wield [Also would be getting a power reduction.]

21. Defend --> Defend? [Defending status is probably dying, so this might have to become something else.]

22. Equip Change --> Re-equip [This is really busted, at least as it currently is with the ability to change ALL pieces of equipment in one turn. As it stands now, it's probably dying. I might let it live if it's confined to only one piece of equipment, but yeah. That said, I think I may have a plan for it outside of battle....]

23. [Blank RSM 2] --> Focus? [I'll probably just using something like Razele's Concentrate than the hack that FFMaster made in this instance, if only because +25% rate being "flat" really bugs me.]

24. Short Charge --> Short Charge? [Now: Swiftness?: Like Half of MP, this is probably be reduced in its effectiveness since most units are slower now. As such it, it halving CT is rather ridiculous.]

25. Non-charge --> Non-Charge? [This might just stop existing, even for bosses.]

26. [Blank RSM 3] --> Overwhelm [I plan to keep using this, but, as with Focus, it kinda bugs me that it has no drawback, so I'll probably modify it to have be double-edged, with the user of Overwhelm taking 20% more damage and being 20% more susceptible as well.]

27. [Blank RSM 4] --> Unyielding [As with Overwhelm, I plan to keep using it, but I think it needs a drawback for reducing damage all around. So the user will probably end up doing 20% less damage and 20% less accurate.]

Unused Supports:

1. Gained JP-UP --> Doubletime? [Probably does...something I'm not telling you at present.]

2. Gained EXP-UP --> Quick Learner? [Currently still planned to be as it is, though I might make it the except opposite it and have it deny EXP growth for people who want to do low-level runs and other challenges like that. Not sure.]

3. Concentrate --> Spellbound? [Potentially does numerous things that could all fall under the same name. We'll assume that this and FFMaster's Focus's spot switch places.]

4. Martial Arts --> ???? [I've somewhat considered bringing back Brawler rather recently, but at present, it's still dead.]

5. Monster Skill --> Learning? [A rather passive Support, which is saying something, but one that I feel is kinda needed, at least for my patch where there's a lot of Learn on Hit Only stuff. As such, "Learning" would make it so that you could 100% Learn on any of those abilities if you got hit with them AND so that you didn't have to be in the same class that could currently learn them given Learn on Hit only stuff presently only works for primary classes. It might be unnecessary, though.]


Planned Supports With no Set Slots:

1. ???? --> Fatescriber [REDACTED]

2. ???? --> Fatebreaker [REDACTED; might not be available to generics, if it is, probably goes to one of the higher classes like Summoner.]


I currently have way too many scrapped Movements due to them a)sucking like hell from/in Vanilla and b)being so tied to maps that it's not easy to think up new ones. So either they'll end up becoming Supports or they will have to be a lot of map and weather alterations for me to think of more than a couple of new ones that would actually be useful. Probably both.


In-Use Movements:

1. Move +1 --> Move +1 [Now: Sprint: Might need a bit more power, but Move +2 and Move +3 sure as hell aren't coming back.]

2. Jump +3 --> Jump +3 [Still really weak, especially with Fly still around, but now as weak as Jump +1 or Jump +2 or as unnecessary yet still useless as Ignore Height was/is. Still, it might die unless I can think of additional effects.]

3. Move-HP Up --> Move-HP Up? [Now: Lifefont?: It probably doesn't need any changes.]

4. Move-MP Up --> Move-MP Up? [Now: Manafont?: It probably doesn't need any changes.]

5. Move-Get Exp --> Move-Get Exp? [Still extremely weak, though it and Gained EXP Up's fates are probably related. As such, this might become that Support that prevents EXP growth rather than movement.]

6. Cannot enter water --> Hydrophobic?/Hydrophobia? [Unfortunately seems rather necessary to keep around even though I've gone out of my way to make sure that most monsters can move better on or in water than most humans.]

7. Teleport --> Teleport?/Apparate?/Warp? [NPC-only? I'm still not sure how to "fix" this, but I don't want it completely gone even if it's likely not available to generics.]

8. Any Weather --> Any Weather? [No current changes, meaning that's still only really "useful" for Bombs...when it's raining.]

9. Any Ground --> Any Ground? [Also no current changes, though I've always felt that it isn't quite as weak as most people seem to think it is. Not that it isn't still horribly weak, but it has its uses, at least innately.]

10. Walk on Water --> Walk on Water? [...I think this is the correctly named version after name-swaps. I can never remember. Anyway, this and an Move-On-Lava will probably combine into "Solidify", though my "plans" for Lava panels are kinda...dubious right now.]

11. Move in Water --> Move in Water? [Now: Swim:Provided the name thing is correct, this is sticking around since depth 1 water will still exist at least.]

12. Move on Lava --> Move on Lava? [Probably dying, but Flame Dragon and a few other enemies still have it and I haven't quite figured out what I'm doing with the few lava panels that exist just yet.]

13. Move Underwater --> Move Underwater? [Definitely dying since I plan to get rid of all depth 2 or more water panels. Presently still "in-use" since it was/is on Illithids, like Hamedo, before they became special monsters.]

14. Float --> Levitation [Now: Self-Levitate: "Levitate" is already in-use by the Dimensionalist ability that also adds Floating or else I would call it that. It's currently guaranteed to stay between Move on Lava staying, Feather Boots having a weakness and regular Floating being unable to stay over Lava panels. Also helps that it's the closest thing to Jump +1 that still exists....]

15. Fly --> Fly [Currently still rather busted, especially in light of Move +3 and Teleport's nerfs/disappearances. If human Animist get to continue to learn it, then it will likely inflict -1 Move.]

16. Silent Walk [UNUSED] --> Flee [Critical Only Move +2 still. Might change a bit.]

17. Move-Find Item --> Treasure Hunter [Now: Treasure Hunt?: This rather mandatory. I vaguely remember wanting to buff it somehow....]

Unused Movements:

1. Move +2 --> Sneak? [Somewhat like Razele's Silent Walk idea that I completely forgotten about, though I'm not sure about the reaction prevention. That would make sense though....]

2. Move +3 --> ???? [Possibly becomes Geomancy Support.]

3. Jump +1 --> ???? [Possibly becomes Throw Support.]

4. Jump +2 --> ???? [Possibly becomes Jump Support.]

5. Ignore Height --> ???? [Possibly becomes "Draw Out" Support.]

6. Move-Get Jp --> ???? [Possibly becomes Item Support.]

7. Teleport 2 --> ???? [Isn't even necessary for bosses, so this likely becomes something else.]

8. [Blank RSM 5] --> ???? [Was never used. Have a couple of ideas.]

9. [Blank RSM 6] --> ???? [Was never used. Have a couple of ideas.


...That took way too long given I started typing this around 5:00 P.M. Hunh. Is 75 wpm really that slow? Whatever.

Quote from: formerdeathcorps on April 15, 2012, 07:16:16 pm
Highly unreadable stuff up ahead.


Meh. It's fine. More decisively organized than my equipment still is at present and all of that's in Excel. It could use more line spacing, but otherwise readable.

However, looking over your Instruments section, I'm kinda curious how you want to handle the issue of spriting with those. I was only considering two of them and even then it seemed like it was going to be too much of a pain in the ass to bother with.

P.S. Yes, I am aware I still owe you that ASM; you never got around to returning that (last) PM, though.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

April 16, 2012, 01:32:34 pm #2 Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:24:02 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
@Damned:
1. You do realize you can turn word wrap on, right?

2. The problem you experience is due to an error in SMF, in the forum.  Unix, Windows, and Mac all have different symbols for Carriage Return (what happens when you press Enter), and SMF fucks them up.  I'll tell Xif about it and I'll tell her what to do to fix it.

3. Could you post the effects of the ability you mention, along with your critique of it?  Because I can't tell if it's directed at me (the plain text file), Razele's screencaps, or FDC's plain text file.

Speaking of which, here's my critique of FDC's plain text file.
A Save (Keep...though limit is 5 and -33% [on breaks], Enemy attacks only, Br%)
*I prefer a static boost to PA, that changes depending on your current hp / max hp
**if current hp / max hp = 99% to 75%, then + 1 PA
**if current hp / max hp = 74% to 50%, then + 2 PA
**if current hp / max hp = 49% to 25%, then + 3 PA
**if current hp / max hp = 24% to 01%, then + 4 PA
*NOTE: if you heal, then you lose the bonus.
*NOTE: this effectively changes it into a support.

M Save (Keep...though limit is 5 and -33% [on breaks], Enemy attacks only, Fa%)
*Do the same thing I recommend with A Save, but with MA.  It's up to you if it's triggered by Faith / 100.
*NOTE: if you heal, then you lose the bonus.
*NOTE: this effectively changes it into a support.

Speed Save (Keep...change to +20 CT, but if Critical: +127 CT [quick], Enemy attacks only, Br%)
*You could use what I recommend with A Save and MA Save, and use the HP Damage Boosts CT for another pure Reaction.
*NOTE: if you heal, then you lose the bonus.
*NOTE: this effectively changes it into a support.

Sunken State (Keep...Enemy attacks only, Transparent makes a unit impermeable to evadeable magic, Br%)
*No idea what to do with Sunken State.

Caution (Lowers Brave by 10, Fixed 70%)
*Uh, WTF?
**Does it turn HP Damage into Brave damage?
*I prefer to replace this with something that reduces enemy faith when you take Magic damage.
*The amount of Faith reduction is as follows:
**01% to 33% of Max HP lost = - 10 Faith
**34% to 66% of Max HP lost = - 20 Faith
**67% to 99% of Max HP lost = - 30 Faith
*This is so the ability is useful, but not overpowered, throughout the entire game.
*NOTE: You can change the amount of Faith the enemy loses, but the ratio will remain the same:
**N
**N * 2
**N * 3

Dragon Spirit (+Re-raise/regen, critical HP, Fa%)
*Add a buff you don't already have when you lose HP, and add reraise when you are reduced to Critical by an attack that deals HP damage.
**Buffs when not critical: Protect, Shell, Regen
**Buffs to add when critical: Reraise

Regenerator (Replace with Ghost State; enemy attacks only, add empty status, Intangible, which makes a unit impermeable to evadable physical attacks, Fa%)
*Don't care.

Brave Up (Keep, only because I boosted it to +10, Fixed 70%)
*Change so it increases Brave by amount of damage taken.
**01% to 33% of Max HP lost = + 10 Brave
**34% to 66% of Max HP lost = + 20 Brave
**67% to 99% of Max HP lost = + 30 Brave
*NOTE: If you don't save changes to Brave after battle, then you make the bonuses recalculate when your HP is restored, though this will change it into a Support
*NOTE: You can change the amount of Faith the enemy loses, but the ratio will remain the same:
**N
**N * 2
**N * 3

Faith Up (Keep, only because I boosted it to +10, Fixed 70%)
*Same as Brave Up

HP Restore (Keep, but I will make this Fa%)
*Fine.

Balance (Replaces MP Restore; after taking HP or MP damage, replace HP and MP with the average between the two, but only if less than maxHP and maxMP, Fa%)
*Rename "Martyr"
*Restore MP in the amount of HP damage taken.
*This makes it a Support.

Adrenaline Rush (Replace Critical Quick; expend 10 MP to +Haste, if critical: +Haste/Berserk, Br%)
*This is what should increment CT depending on the amount of HP damage taken.  Not Speed Save.

Bonecrusher (Keep, Br%)
*Fine.

Counter Magic (Keep...Fa%)
*See my fix for Counter Magic.
*Needs an additional effect.  I recommend the Absorb Used MP effect, as well as Counter Magic.

Counter Aim (Overrides Counter Tackle, 20 CT penalty, deal 0.5x unevadble weapon damage, ignoring DEFUP/MADEF/Protect/Shell/Defender, Br%)
*Fine with me.

Counter Flood (Keep...though a 10 MP penalty will be added, Fa%)
*Fine.

Absorb MP (Replaces Absorb Used MP, gain MP = cost of any spell that targets user (except self-cast) + [HP excess / 10], Fixed 70%)
*Still kinda useless.

Faith Down (Replaces Gilgame Heart; lowers faith by 10 when hit by magic, Fixed 70%)
*I prefer that caster Faith be the only Faith taken into account, so this is useless for me.
*Change this into a support that uses Gil instead of MP for abilities.
*1000 Gil for 1 MP, perhaps?
*Obviously, this should not work with MP Switch.

Mimic (Overrides Reflect, defender's reaction at the instant of attack by attacker = attacker's reaction)
*So this is basically... counter reaction?  Very meta.

Auto Potion (Keep...though there should be a 25 CT penalty, Br%)
*I intend to have different types of potions, which all restore different amounts of HP and MP.  So there should be a table where I can change what items are hardcoded to be used by this.
**Potion 1 = 20 HP and 20 MP
**Potion 2 = 30 HP and 10 MP
**Potion 3 = 10 HP and 30 MP
*NOTE: All ratios are rough drafts.

Counter (Keep...though a 20 CT penalty will be added, Br%)
*Fine.

Lionheart (Overrides blank; unless unit HP = 1, if unit takes fatal damage, unit has 1 HP remaining, Br%)
*Don't get it.

Counter Spike (Replaces Distribute, 20 CT penalty, deal 20% of minimum{999, target maxHP}, reacts against what counter would but forced 1 range, Br%)
*Don't get it.

MP Switch (Keep...Fixed 70% Activation; excess damage is dealt to HP, (100 - Fa)%)
*Fine.

Damage Split (Keep...though a 10 MP penalty will be added, Fa%)
*I'd rather divide this into two Reactions.
*First Reaction is the Restore Half Of HP Damage Taken, If Not Dead portion.  Does not reflect damage to enemy.
*Second Reaction is the Reflect Half Of HP Damage Taken To Enemy, If Not Dead portion.  Does not reduce damage taken.

Magic Guard (Replaces WEapon Guard, W-EV works against magic and no attacks are unevadable)
*Not too fond of this.  I like the effect, but I don't like attaching it to a Support.

Reflex (REplaces Finger Guard...[4 + Effective SPD] bonus to P/M-AEV)
*Fine, I guess.  Is this as a percentage of P/M-AEV, or a percanted add on top of P/M-AEV

Abandon (Rework...C-EV is now max{40, baseC-EV + 30}; C-EV becomes global [100% front/50% side/25% back])
*I'd rather a boost to total Physical and Magical evasion that is equal to (SP~modifiable * 2)%
*So if you have 10 SP, and 50 P-EV, you end up with 60 P-EV
*So if you have 15 SP, and 20 M-EV, then you end up with 26 M-EV
*Yeah, it kinda sucks.  Maybe it should be (SP~modifiable * 3)% + total P/M-EV

Counter Status (Replaces Catch; if unit has any negative status that doesn't disable reactions, give one to the enemy who physically attacks you, Fa%)
*Sounds okay.

Death Wish (Replaces Blade Grasp; 15 MP cost, +Death SEntence if any damage is taken, Fa%)
*It adds that status to the enemy that attacks you?

Pin Down (Replaces Arrow Guard, usable once between turns, 25 CT penalty, first-strike attack the first enemy in range who moves unless the the movement is teleport [in which the target will be attacked and miss])
*Okay, I guess.  This is a Support, you realize.

Hamedo (Keep, but add 25 CT penalty and change preemption to first strike, Br%)
*If you can change it from Pre-empt to First Strike, but remove the CT Penalty, then I want it.
*Maybe change Pre-empt to First Strike, and reduce your own evasion to 0 if First Strike is successful?

Supports + Movements (Consolidated):

Charge Forth (Requires a spare hand [except if weapon is forced 2H]; if in range, the rider will attack with his weapon; the monster will attack "barefisted"...recall mounted riders now use mount SPD for CT calculations)
*Attack with mount?

Monkey Grip (Forced 2H weapons can be wielded in 1 Hand at 2/3 power with no SPD penalty.  Does not stack with 2H or 2S.)
*Only useful if everyone has a shield.

Health UP (+33% maxHP...HP cap is still 999, though)
*Static boost to HP.  Needs a better name.
*I think my "Bubble" Support is a better ability.
**Bubble doubles Max HP, removing the 999 Cap.
***Don't know if Bubble includes equipment HP bonuses.

Vitality UP (+20% maxHP, +25% maxMP...caps are still 999, though)
*This boost HP and MP?

Equip X (Keep...though only 4 will exist, Equip Heavy [Armor, Helm, Shield, Knight Sword, Axe, Lance], Equip Light [Robes,
Hat, Clothes, Rod, Staff, Pole], Equip Ranged [Crossbow, Longbow, Gun, Book, Instrument], Equip Melee [Sword, Knife, Curved Sword, Katana, Flail, Fists])
*Your own patch.

Half of MP (Keep)
*

Turbo MP (Replaced Gained JP UP; 1.5x magic cost and damage for non-status spells that use MA...may be difficult to hack properly)
*Conditional MATK UP, with boost to MP costs.
**The difficulty will be in previewability of MP costs.
*MATK UP and MP Cost = base + (n)%

Blood Magic (Replaced Gained EXP UP; Uses twice the MP cost of a spell in HP in place of MP costs)
*This sounds so easy I bet I could hack it.

XXX UP (Keep)
*The static ATK, DEF, MATK, and MDEF?

Concentrate (Keep...overriden by blind/berserk, affects magic too)
*I personally don't like Concentrate. 
*You're better off combining the "Negate Weather Accuracy Penalties" effect of Any Weather with something else that modifies accuracy, or somehow increases or optimizes accuracy.
**Change the Hit Rate of the Ability formula, of every ability used, so it's powered by whatever stat (PA, MA, SP) is highest.

Accelerator (Overrides Train...the timers for all status effects that use CT/turn timers are cut in half)
*Only for the character that has this ability equipped?  What about buffs?

Martial Arts (Keep...do not make it innate on monk; 3/2x to XA2 if PA and EQ: melee weapon with WP < 9 [includes bare-fists].  Does not stack on 2S or 2H.)
*First of all, you must change the base Unarmed attack formula, because it is far too powerful.  I recommend the following:
**(PA~modifiable * (PA~base * (Brave / 100)))
*Now that we have this, I recommend that Martial Arts change the Unarmed attack formula as follows:
**((PA~modifiable OR MA~modifiable OR SP~modifiable; whichever is greater) * ((PA~base OR MA~base OR SP~base; whichever is greater) * ((Brave OR Faith; whichever is greater) / 100)))
*If that is too much to look at, then think of it this way:
**a = (PA~modifiable OR MA~modifiable OR SP~modifiable; whichever is greater)
**b = (PA~base OR MA~base OR SP~base; whichever is greater)
**c = (Brave OR Faith; whichever is greater)
**(a * (b * (c / 100)))

Authority
*Merges Monster Skill/Talk into one skill with 2 effects:
**Allows humans riding monsters to use all 4 monster skills as a third skillset [this is the hardest to hack];
**Makes units immune to critical/knockback/weapon procs [but not counter-procs]
*NOTE, my hack will apply SRH and make monsters not even require monster skill to have 4 attacks and my hack automatically allows talk skill to work on monsters.
-What is SRH?  Do you man ARH?

Throw Item (Keep, but also boosts throw range by 2; note that base throw range =  JMP / 2 in my hack, though I intend to make a set of aerodynamic weapons that go farther/hit harder)
*Do you mean "base ITEM throw range = Jump / 2"?  Doesn't that reduce base item throw range to 1 or 2 for most units?
*Or does this apply to both Chemist and Ninja skillsets?

Two XXX (Keep...2 Hands is now 1.5x power [this is how I'm remaking Knight Swords], 2 Swords is now at base 75% accuracy)
*Sounds fine to me.

Pierce (Replaces Secret Hunt; FFM's idea of boosting all damage...by 20% to final damage if the target has any positive status, ignores the effect of all supports and statii that lower DMG except Guard on target)
*I don't like this because it negates other supports, but it's your patch, so do what you want.  And it's statuses, not statii.  We aren't speaking Latin.

Guard (Replaces Monster Skill; Reduces all incoming damage...by 20% to final damage if self has any negative status [Charging/Performing also], ignores the effect of all supports that increase DMG except Pierce on attacker)
*Is this some kind of gimmick for a pair of special job classes?

Vehemence (Overrides Blank Support 1; Toned down to a 33% boost and no longer affects dealt healing.)
*Generally don't care, as static boosts with no conditionals bore me.

Equip Change (Gains Maintenance's effect + null stat breaks...if I can think of how, I might implement a pseudo-Paradigm Shift system that lets you change the other Support/Reaction ability of the unit as well...if you then use ALMA to tie skills to supports [or vice-versa] it should be possible to create attacks dependent on having Support X and Reaction Y)
*So you can concievably have "abililities" that are conditional, in relation to different things - when in fact it's actually two different abilities in the that are almost the same (think Fenrir in FF9), which change depending on equipment.

Defender (Replaces Defend [have a Warn skill that adds Defend to all allies in my hack...don't need it]; Cuts damage taken/dealt and healing taken by 33%.)
*Seems lame.  Who needs a damage sponge?

Energy Save (Replaces Maintenance; if unit only attacks or only moves, CT is reset to 40.  If unit does both, CT is reset to 20.)
*The name sucks.  "Waste Not, Want Not" may work, if it will fit in the space provided.  As will "Languid Grace", or just "Calmness".
*Interesting, but not conditional enough for me.
*I'd rather have something that always forces you to 00 CT, no matter what you do; but your CT increases by an additional 2 points per clocktick.  Or something like that.
**Maybe your CT increases by SP * 1.5 every clocktick, but you always start at 00 CT, no matter what you do.

Short Charge (Keep...but should include CHARGE)
*Agreed.  It should also modify the JUMP abilities.

Non-Charge (Keep...cuts power/accuracy in half)
*Kinda agree, but I prefer to keep it as is, but enemy only.

Copycat (Overrides Blank Support 2; unit uses the last move used by any ally, if able, even if the unit does not know the move; the new user must pay all costs except CT)
*For Mime, I assume?  This is simply what a Mime does, wrapped up in a Support?

Infinite Energy (Overrides Blank Support 3; Ignores CT checks for counter abilities...enemy only)
*I've no idea what a CT check is in regards to Counter abilities, so no comment.

Move +1 (Move +1/Fly)
*Lame.

Move +2 (Move +1/Initial: Float)
*Lame.

Move +3 (Move +2/Initial: Intangible)
*Lame.

Jump +1 (Jump +1/Set P/M-AEV to 25)
*Not very interesting.  What does P/M-AEV have to do with Jump?
*Rename "Acrobatics"?  "Acrobatic"?  "Acrobat"?  "Daredevil"?  "Battle Clowning"?
*Idea:
**Boost P/M-AEV by Height * 2
**Change horizontal jumping range from (Jump / 2) to (Jump * 2)
**Static boost to Jump, based on Height:
***3 height to 5 height = 1 Move
***6 height to 9 height = 2 Move
***9 height and greater = 3 Move

Jump +2 (Jump +1/Speed +1/Move-Find Item)
*Boring.

Jump +3 (Jump +2/Move on Water/Lava/Any Ground [movement costs over all terrrain, at all times, is 1]/Any Weather...note, for each point of jump greater than 4, you add 1 range to bows/crossbows; if jump > 5, minimum range = 1 on bows/crossbows/guns; if jump > 6, 1.5x DMG if under 3 range on bows/crossbows/guns/throw)
*Somewhat interesting.  You basically have to combine a lot of the crappy Movements if you want something useful, and how you combine them is up to you.

Move-HP UP (Keep)
*This needs to be boosted to like (HP restored per tile = Max HP / 8)
*Maybe (HP restored per tile = Max HP / 10)

Move-MP UP (Keep, but Halve: MP Damage)
*Change to (MP restored per tile = Max MP / 8)
*Maybe (MP restored per tile = Max MP / 10)

Draw Out (Replaces Ignore Height; Allows use of draw out [innate on Swordmaster and Alchemist]; only Alchemists can use as action [rather than move + act]...doing this gives Swordmaster two skillsets)
*You need to clarify what this does for Alchemists, as well as whatever other effects it has.

Charge (Replaces Move-Get EXP; Allows use of charge [innate on Archer]; Longbow users can ignore evasion...doing this gives Archer two skillsets)
*For your own patch, right?

Item (Replaces Move-Get JP; Allows use of item [innate on Alchemists]; Alchemists have 3 range.)
*Nothing to say.

Throw (Replaces Move-Find Item; Allows use of throw [innate on Jugglers and Alchemists]; if 1+ hands are not being used, gain +1 Range...in short, Alchemist gets 3 skillsets: Draw Out, Item, and Throw)
*Nothing to say.

Jump (Replaces Any Ground; Allows use of jump [innate on Cavaliers]; Lance users deal 1.5x damage...doing this gives Cavalier gets two skillsets)
*Nothing to say.

Immunity (Replaces Walk on Water; Initial: Astra, only one negative status can applied to the unit at any given time)
*Not interested in this, but I see nothing wrong with it.

Spell Forcing (Replaces Move in Water; Proc status/weapon proc at 100%...enemy only)
*Nothing to say.

Fast Accuracy (Replaces Move on Lava; Xif's idea...multiply final accuracy by (124 + Effective SPD)%)
*I don't know the r

The Damned

Quote from: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 16, 2012, 01:32:34 pm
@Damned:
1. You do realize you can turn word wrap on, right?


Word Wrap IS on and the document is still completely screwed up for me. Otherwise I wouldn't haven't said anything since I use Word Wrap in Notepad literally all the time.

Quote from: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 16, 2012, 01:32:34 pm2. The problem you experience is due to an error in SMF, in the forum.  Unix, Windows, and Mac all have different symbols for Carriage Return (what happens when you press Enter), and SMF fucks them up.  I'll tell Xif about it and I'll tell her what to do to fix it.


...Okay? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here. It's probably really obviously, but it's currently eluding me.

Quote from: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 16, 2012, 01:32:34 pm3. Could you post the effects of the ability you mention, along with your critique of it?  Because I can't tell if it's directed at me (the plain text file), Razele's screencaps, or FDC's plain text file.


Oh, sorry. I thought it was obvious, but those are all with regards to Razele's screencaps since a) your document has screwed up spacing (for me) as I said and b) not only had I not looked at formerdeathcorps's RSMs, but none of this are named those sans Flee and Teleport. So...yeah.

I can do yours, now that I can read them, and formerdeathcorps's as well since you commented on them, but just like with (vaguely) explaining things in my post, it's going to take a while even after I finish what I need to finish in an hour or two.

Suppose for my own post, since I don't want to go back and (constantly) edit it, I should note that despite all that plan to change a good many movements to Supports potentially, I have no intention of merging Supports and Movements at present.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Could you post a screencap of what you see when you open my plain text file?  And tell us what Operating System you use as well, along with what you use to view and edit plain text files.

Post it here:
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8719

It's not obvious; I've encountered it before.  I'll save this topic and go over your R/S/M edits tonight.

formerdeathcorps

April 16, 2012, 04:06:09 pm #5 Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 04:13:42 pm by formerdeathcorps
PGF, did you read the section I wrote on status effects, the changes to Br/Fa, and weapon effects?  It should clarify some of these changes.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is that I'm using Raven's idea of dual supports.

X Saves:
*I'd rather keep them as reactions rather than support abilities, to be honest.

Sunken State/Ghost State:
Transparent and Intangible are now twin effects.  Transparent blocks all evadable magic for a turn, Intangible blocks all evadable attacks.  Like the originals, they are canceled by damage, but they are now canceled at the start of your next turn, regardless of whether or not you acted last turn.

Br/Fa Mod Reactions:
Lowering brave is useful because lowering brave increases evasion at the cost of critical hit ratio and accuracy.  Increasing brave increases critical hit ratio at the cost of lowering evasion and accuracy.  (50 Brave yields the best accuracy.)
Lowering faith decreases the chances for weapon procs and the damage off spells (both yours and the enemies').  NOTE: Since most status magic are now spell procs off damage, faith no longer affects this.  Similarly, raising faith increases the chances for weapon procs and the damage off spells (both yours and the enemies').

Dragon Spirit:
Yeah, a better idea probably is +Regen when normal and +Regen/Re-Raise when in critical.  I'm not too fond of auto-adding protect or shell though.

HP Restore:
Still fear this is slightly broken.

Balance:
I personally do not like this reaction, but the coding here is much simpler than my originally proposed version.  I'm not sure Martyr is a better idea though; my patch does intend to restrict easy access to MP restoration.  If someone else can come up with a reaction that has the potential to heal HP or MP but not both simultaneously, I'll be willing to listen.  Extra points if it also can function somewhat like MP Switch.

Absorb MP:
When HP excess is converted to MP, White Magic, ITEM, and elemental absorption become MP restorative skills.  I personally don't consider this too easy an access to MP restoration because you still need a team (since self-casts don't count), and probably a specially built elemental absorb team for you to break even in a probabilistic sense.

Counter Magic:
Since my hack restricts MP growth, restoration, and equips, I'm not sure I should allow loopholes such as free MP casting off counter magic, though if things get too restrictive, I may consider it.

Mimic:
Not exactly.  It simply uses the reaction ability of the opponent that attacks you.  That means if they have damage split, you use damage split.  If they have magic guard, you use magic guard.  If they have mimic...well, then you're out of luck.

Lionheart:
This is a modified version of the move Endure from Pokemon.  As long as you have more than 1 HP, normally lethal damage will reduce you to 1 HP Br% of the time.

Counter Spike:
Maybe a better name would be Counter Steel Needle.

Reflex:
This is directly added to P/M-AEV.  Effective SPD doesn't go past 20 (and units that have it that high would have 0 A-EV to begin with).

Abandon:
Recall C-EV also works against magic in my patch.  As a result, the difference between this and reflex is how well you can block from the sides and behind.  In general, Reflex is better if you don't have a mantle, but Abandon is better on an established evasion setup.

Death Wish:
Yes, you cast this on the enemy.

Pin Down:
This is a reaction in the sense that the attack performed is automatic, though the coding for it will be atrocious.  The only thing weird about it is that it triggers at 100%.
Example 1:
You have an archer.  No enemy units are in range.  You wait until an enemy ninja walks into range.  The moment that ninja enters the first targetable panel, your archer loses 25 CT and fires a shot.  Your archer cannot use this reaction ability until after the end of his next AT.  However, if the ninja is still alive, he will continue his movement.
Example 2:
You move your archer into range and fire upon an enemy with the same SP and CT as you.  After your turn ends, the enemy unit moves away and you cannot counter because your CT is 0 or 20.  However, once your CT goes above 25, you can fire upon another unit who walks into range.
Example 3:
You move your archer into range and fire upon an enemy with the same SP and CT as you.  After your turn ends, the enemy unit heals himself with a potion and does not move, and thus, your archer cannot attack him.

Hamedo:
You have a point there.  I may consider:
1) First Strike Counter all countergrasp attacks, 25 CT penalty.
2) First Strike Counter only weapon attacks, set evasion to 0.

Charge Forth:
Yeah, the monster attacks along with the rider with its basic attack.

Monkeygrip:
Most 2H weapons have pretty good evasion so that + Shield on knight classes yields even better evasion.  I may also consider having this ability remove the jump penalty on shields as well.

Health Up:
I'm not sure what kind of static boosts you'd have in mind.

Vitality Up:
Yeah, this boosts HP and MP.  It's technically the better ability (than Health Up) on a hybrid, especially when chained to Balance or MP Switch.

XXX Up:
I'm not too convinced static is the right idea.  I'll keep thinking about it though.

Concentrate:
Do I dare ask why you don't like it?  (In this patch, gunshots are concentrated on any weapon ranged attack, including breaks.)

Accelerator:
This is intended for the people who don't use buffs and simply want to rush enemies without getting bogged down with negative status effects.  Of course, death sentence becomes all the more lethal.

Martial Arts:
Don't worry, I changed the fist formula to be dependent on PA and LVL.  However, what martial arts does here is boost all "weak" weapons along with fists by a multiplier larger than any other physical multiplier.  If you look over my weapon list, you'll notice I made a plethora of procs; hence, I'm rewarding the use of early game weapons with tricky procs by pumping up their damage.

Authority:
SRH = Skillset Requirement Hack

Throw Item:
This boosts the range of THROW and ITEM by 2.  The base range of THROW is JMP / 2, but all humans have 4/4 move/jump as innates.  However, heavy armor and robes reduce move by 1, shields and mantles reduces jump by 1, and 2H weapons reduce SPD by 1.
As for the severe reduction throw's range?  Not to worry.  Juggler has this ability innate, as does alchemist.  It's the other classes that have to worry.

Pierce/Guard:
The "gimmick" here is to create something that stop stall teams from getting a free ride by using the dual support system + status magic to win.

Short Charge:
I would have it modify Jump's CT but since it's now [28 / JMP], I don't think I quite need to.  (Please recall that Cavalier has 1.5x damage boost to jump as an innate.)  I'm actually concerned Short Charge with Charge +15 is broken.

Copycat:
It's a nerfed version of mimic, but as a support, ANYONE can learn it.  It's nerfed in the sense that you must pay the same (HP/MP) costs of the original spell (except CT).  Obviously, if you don't have MP enough MP, you can't mimic.  You can't mimic weapon attacks if your weapon does not allow you that much range.  If something uses up an item, you must also use up that item (if you have it).  Thus, on the whole, it should be balanced (or I'll just make it a reaction ability).

Infinite Energy:
This means the bosses don't need to pay CT to use abilities like Counter and Hamedo.  I may consider allowing the removal of MP costs from all reactions + copycat with this skill.

Move +2:
Float's effect is now way different.  It now is
Halve: Wind
Null: Earth
Until Float's CT wears off (yes, float is getting a CT), the CT of no other status effect may decrement.
In other words, Float has the opposite effect of accelerator; as long as float is up, you can have permanent protect/shell/regen (provided no one uses dispel magic).  Death Sentence will never take effect.  (Dead, obviously, is an exception.)  However, at the same time, any status effects like don't act will also not go away.

Move +3:
Still useful for when the enemy uses fast physical units and you don't want taking first strike damage.  I'm actually a bit concerned that vanish (+transparent/intangible if blinded) + magic guard is broken.  Obviously, float has no effect on this status effect because it has no CT timer.

Jump +3:
This wasn't meant to cause confusion, but any boost to JMP now has that effect on longbows and throw in my patch, not just Jump +3.

Move-HP UP:
I don't see the need to strengthen it more than it already is.  It heals for enough to convert 2HKOs to 3HKOs in Arena and 1.3.  It should be noted that poison overrides this though.

Move-MP UP:
Considering the point is to limit MP restoration, I don't think restoring up to half of your MP per turn is right.  It should be noted that poison (which is now infinite and now eats away at your MP too) overrides this.

Draw Out:
I'm not subjecting draw out to M-EV, and it still retains summoner targeting.  The break chance will be fixed at 15%.  Instead, I'm going to make draw out use up a movement and an action (this also makes draw out not subject to copycat unless your copycat did not move or act last turn).  This means a Swordmaster with draw out can't use draw out if he had already moved or acted.  The only exception to this rule is Alchemist, but that's because Alchemist can only equip R/S/Ms and items.  He can't select a secondary, and thus, needs other boosts.

Charge:
Yep, this is for my patch.

Item:
Note that using ITEM + Throw Item requires 2 supports.  This IS intentional, by the way.  (Of course, Alchemist comes innate with 3 range on ITEM so they're the best item-bot class.)

Charge/Jump:
To clarify any confusion, Jump grants lance users 1.5x damage when the use JUMP, not when they use any attack.  Similarly, Charge grants longbow users unevadability only when they use charge.

Fast Accuracy:
Effective SPD ranges from 4-20 from Level 1-50.

Cannot Enter Water:
I recall something crashing the game before.  I just don't remember what, though I think the commonsense reason was that bombs shouldn't be going over water in the first place.

Move-Vitalize:
No, this exists to reward the AI for doing what they do best, wasting CT.

Teleport II:
Your idea sounds nice.  I may think about it some more.

Flee:
Why is there a problem with granting ignore height?  It's fairly mobile and gives you the ability to avoid fall damage.
Moving through enemies as if they were allies are abilities already granted by fly, teleport, intangible, and transparent.  I see no reason to add it here.
I'm not sure about infinite horizontal jumping.  How broken would that be?

Quick Boost:
Every stat that is boosted by XXX Up in damage formulas is replaced by your effective SPD.  I noticed I needed this after I deleted most of the speed dependent formulas from the game.

Extremism:
That's correct.

Elementalism:
To be honest, I don't quite like this ability and I wouldn't mind replacing it.  I don't need Geomancy as you described it because that's already covered under the status effect Expose (which is removed by protect and shell).

Disarm:
Maybe I should clarify the meaning of a counter-proc.  I made many weapons/mantles/shields that proc an attack when they blocked an attack.  These function like counter abilities in the sense that they don't trigger any counter ability other than evasion.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

The Damned

(*facepalms*)

Oh, that's what you meant. As usual, I feel like an idiot. Anyway, it's done and posted in that thread.

No rush on replying to my R/S/Ms since a) they're all pretty shit at present and b) they're not really a wishlist, but just what I have planned at present. I'd make a "proper" wishlist, but I'm so used to getting disappointed that I don't even bother getting my hopes up to plan something out that might end up impossible.

I can clarify some of the things that I didn't explain that were there, though, like Fatebreaker, Doubletime and Sneak and such. They still won't be terribly exciting.

That said, I'll reply to both of yours later. It would seem that I have even more immediate problems to take care of than I expected. Hurray.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

April 16, 2012, 05:18:31 pm #7 Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 05:33:17 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
QuoteAbsorb MP:
When HP excess is converted to MP, White Magic, ITEM, and elemental absorption become MP restorative skills.  I personally don't consider this too easy an access to MP restoration because you still need a team (since self-casts don't count), and probably a specially built elemental absorb team for you to break even in a probabilistic sense.

Oh shit it's Vanilla Absorb Used MP + Distribute Excess HP to MP on Self!  Very useful, especially if all abilities cost MP.

QuoteLionheart:
This is a modified version of the move Endure from Pokemon.  As long as you have more than 1 HP, normally lethal damage will reduce you to 1 HP Br% of the time.

Sounds okay.  Kinda a pain in the butt (in a good way), when you 1HKO an enemy party with Bahamut, and then half of them Jump back up again.  Sounds like a very White Mage ability, though it's useful on Tanks, and anyone you want to send in among a bunch of enemies.

QuoteMonkeygrip:
Most 2H weapons have pretty good evasion so that + Shield on knight classes yields even better evasion.  I may also consider having this ability remove the jump penalty on shields as well.

I assume the Jump penalty is unique to your patch, and not vanilla.

QuoteHealth Up:
I'm not sure what kind of static boosts you'd have in mind.

No, that was just me commenting on it.  Technically, it's a dynamic boost to HP, since it's a percentage boost to your max HP.  I should specify that there are two types of boosts, and each one can be conditional, and another thing I don't have the word for (maybe increments).

Static Boost/Penalty = Boosts/Penalizes a Stat by n, where n is a number like 100, 2, 85, or negative 900.
-Conditional Static Boost/Penalty = Boosts/Penalizes a Stat by n - where n is a number like 100, 2, 85, or negative 900 - when that stat is a percentage of it's maximum value.  In addition, it boosts/penalizes that stat more (n * 2, n* 3), the more that stat swings towards one extreme of it's possible values.
-Incremental Stat Boost/Penalty = Boosts/Penalizes a staty by n - where n is a number like 100, 2, 85, or negative 900 - when that stat is reduced by a percentage of it's maximum value; or when it is reduced below it's current value, ever.  This effect becomes more powerful the more that stat is reduced by a single attack, perhaps; or maybe it just triggers every time that stat is reduced ever, and it keep stacking.

Dynamic = (I lost interest in explaining it, since I'm not doing a very good job.)

QuoteXXX UP

Go with my idea, and make a bunch of XXX UP that activate in a very specific way, under fairly common-place circumstances.  That way you have something that's consistently useful, but doesn't make it a far more reliable Support than any other Support.

I don't like Concentrate because it negates other Reactions and Supports, as well as equipment; because it works all the time and is not dependent on any other part of the character (unlike Serenity, which won't save you if all your stats suck); and because it's the perfect Support for almost every single class in the game.
*Concentrate    : Rename "Serenity"
                : Negate weather-related accuracy penalties to bows and crossbows.
                : Change stat that drives Hit Rate of formula for abilities you use to whatever stat (PA, MA, OR SP) and (Brave OR Faith) is greatest.

Serenity is still useful for every class in the game, but it's best for classes with Ranged weapons, and it performs best for using abilities whose hit rate your stats don't work well for, so it improves flexibility for the player; and it reduces the punishment on the AI for selecting, say, Yin-Yang Magic as a Secondary for a Monk, or Steal as a Secondary for a Samurai.

QuoteAccelerator:
This is intended for the people who don't use buffs and simply want to rush enemies without getting bogged down with negative status effects.  Of course, death sentence becomes all the more lethal.

Then call it Banzai! or Kamikaze or Suicide Rush or "Brave Or Stupid?" or "Riskbreaker".  And what about abilities that don't have CT?

QuoteMartial Arts:
Don't worry, I changed the fist formula to be dependent on PA and LVL.  However, what martial arts does here is boost all "weak" weapons along with fists by a multiplier larger than any other physical multiplier.  If you look over my weapon list, you'll notice I made a plethora of procs; hence, I'm rewarding the use of early game weapons with tricky procs by pumping up their damage.

That's your patch, so it's your call.  I'd use something similar if I was doing the same.  In fact, I might make it change all weapon formulas, not just unarmed.  Thanks for the idea.

QuoteAuthority

I assume more monsters are mountable, then?

QuoteFlee:
Why is there a problem with granting ignore height?  It's fairly mobile and gives you the ability to avoid fall damage.
Moving through enemies as if they were allies are abilities already granted by fly, teleport, intangible, and transparent.  I see no reason to add it here.
I'm not sure about infinite horizontal jumping.  How broken would that be?

I don't like Ignore Height because it makes many abilities and items that grant Jump + (1,2,3,..., n) useless, so you have to cook up some bizarre effects to make them useful again.
And I'm not entirely in favor of infinite horizontal jumping.  I may just create an "Improved Horizonal Jumping" effect, which changes the horizontal jumping formula from (Jump / 2) to (Jump * 2).

In Vanilla, you can jump across any gap that is at the same height or lower than you, if the gap between you and it is lower than (your Jump / 2).

I don't know if this only works if you have enough Move for every Panel you jump over; or if your move only starts counting after you land - that is, jumping the gap costs 1 move, since you only touched the panel you jumped from and the panel you landed on.

If it's the former, then modified horizontal Jumping or infinite horizontal jumping is fine, because it's dependent on the amount of Move you have, IE, you can't Jump a gap larger than your move range.

If it's the latter, then infinite horizontal jumping is incredibly broken, because you could jump from any increase in height across an infinite gap, and it will only count as 1 Move used (think of The Matrix).  In such a case, even modified horizontal jumping is slightly broken.

If it's the latter, then you may have to change the game so you can only jump a gap that is equal to or less than your Move range, provided you have the required Jump to clear the length of the gap.  The required Jump will then check if you have something equipped which grants either infinite horizontal jumping or improved horizontal jumping (Jump * 2), and it will default to the standard horizontal jumping formula (Jump / 2) if you don't have something equipped that grants Infinite Horizontal Jumping or Improved Horizontal Jumping.

QuoteQuick Boost:
Every stat that is boosted by XXX Up in damage formulas is replaced by your effective SPD.  I noticed I needed this after I deleted most of the speed dependent formulas from the game.

*shrugs*

QuoteExtremism
*So if your HP is above 50%, you take less damage; and if it's below 50%, you deal more damage?

That covers your conditional XXX UP abilities.  And I see what you did there.  Looking forward to the story battle where this is featured.  Many popcorns will sacrifice their crunchiness on that day.

QuoteDisarm:
Maybe I should clarify the meaning of a counter-proc.  I made many weapons/mantles/shields that proc an attack when they blocked an attack.  These function like counter abilities in the sense that they don't trigger any counter ability other than evasion.

So your Mantle will Cure you when it dodges an attack for you?  I see why you need a support to negate that.

Everything else I didn't comment on is required for your patch.  Though Pin Down still seems pretty crazy.  It will be interesting fighting someone with that - almost realistic, as you advance behind a Tank.  And I see what you did there, too.  This patch better be fucking epic, because this looks like it's shaping up to be something that will teach you a great many things.

@The Damned:
Anything is possible with ASM hacking.  Some things are just really fucking difficult.  Didn't you read Xif's sig?

The Damned

(Ugh. I need to actually do the work I said I need to do. Next post that I do I'll post my "critiques" of both your RSMs, I promise.)

I should also note that I'm currently planning to use ARENA's (Brave+Faith)/2% reaction rate since I was still under the assumption that we couldn't/can't (easily) make Reactions have individual reaction rates. If can, then...I'll probably still use that as default, but we'll see.

Quote from: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 16, 2012, 05:18:31 pm@The Damned:
Anything is possible with ASM hacking.  Some things are just really fucking difficult.  Didn't you read Xif's sig?


Oh, I've read Xifanie's signature. Its hyperbole--since some things have to be impossible if only due to the limits of PSX--aside, my hesitance is a)because I want to do most of the changes myself since it feels unfair to ask other people to do them and b)because I am a colossal dumb-ass, so most things are beyond my grasp.

It's more K.I.S.S. and trying to slowly build on things as opposed to being sure enough that I can out-and-out replace something than me (consciously) thinking of anything I want that's seemingly "impossible". Not having a lot of the system mechanics pinned down--pun not intended given the name of formerdeathcorps's "Reaction" of the same name--doesn't exactly help either.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

I used to think the same thing - I can't learn ASM, I'm too dumb, it just slips my mind.

And then I walked and hitch-hiked halfway across the country - the part with the Rocky Mountains.

Now I have no problems concentrating, none whatsoever.  It's all in your head.  You just need to experience something that forces you to grow and adapt, something that requires days and days of solid concentration, to make you mentally stronger and more self-assured.

http://programmedlessons.org/AssemblyTutorial/index.html
^This is what I'm learning.  Just read one chapter every week or two, and you'll learn.

The Damned

April 17, 2012, 01:00:03 am #10 Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 09:35:43 pm by The Damned
(I really have to work on my priorities, among other things. Oh well, at least this out of the way now.

I think it should goes without saying that anything I don't expressly mention I have no opinion on at present, which I'm either unsure--Pickle Girl Fanboy's Abandon suggestions--or generally agree. Probably.)

I'll do Pickle Girl Fanboy first since he posted first, even if Windows XP's Notepad screwed it up completely on my end:



1. X Saves: I was under the impression, even with ASM stuff, that one would have to make stat boosts akin to status effects to get them easily repealed. Tying them to HP makes it seems even more dubious, though thinking about it a bit more, I think I see what you're aiming for now. I'm guessing that +4 stat is the max stat increase since these are static, correct? Regardless, I can't agree with letting that much Spd be built up, even if it isn't (nearly) as abusive as vanilla could be in that department, especially since the AI is likely to benefit due to how it acts in Critical status; that and due to the player being a lot more likely to intentionally damage itself to set off the stat-raise.

2. Caution/"Divine Wrath": I'm guessing N would be divided by...something considering that doing it off basic damage is rather insane. Otherwise, this is a pretty neat idea.

3. Dragon Spirit: I can't really agree with this between potentially adding Haste AND Reraise as well as other things that basically make an action version of Mbarrier. Perhaps if each positive status replaced the other I could get behind it, but then that might be a weak. I'd be more comfortable with it if lacked Haste or Protect & Shell, but still kinda uncomfortable since I don't like Reraise.

4. Brave Up & Face Up: These get set off by all types of damage now? It could end up rather abusive, especially if more of each leads to more damage and Brave & Faith don't reset like how you intend PA, MA & Spd to.

5. Martyr: This seems like a Reaction because of the way that Absorb Used MP works and because it "activates" by damage. Not sure why it would be a "Support", though I doubt it would really matter given what you said you wanted to do with RSM "equipping".

6. HP Restore: I'd quite disagree that's fine as it originally is, but it's very difficult to argue that in a vacuum without knowing what other changes you're planning.

7. Critical Quick: Ironically, despite feeling that Speed Save shouldn't exist as it still does in your picture, this is probably the best "fix" to Critical Quick that I've seen. Still kinda dubious, though, especially +30 CT seems a bit...excessive. +25 maybe?

8. Meatbone Slash: I really don't like this as if it is now even though, if Meatbone Slash is kept around, it does need to change from vanilla. As it is now, this just obviates Counter outright, which is...bad even as barebones as Counter is.

9. Vergeltung: Odd name--is this German for something? (Oh, for "to revenge")--aside, this is an idea and get behind. I've been kinda thinking of it, but more as an active ability. A reaction is probably the easiest way to do it, though. Would there be some type of limit to the inflicted statuses it can return? Similarly, I'm assuming it would at least not return positive statuses, correct?

10. MP Switch: I believe that Pride or Glain actually already fixed the "overflow" issue so that HP damage does occur now. It was sometime last month or earlier this month, IIRC, though as much as I dislike this reaction, I found myself agreeing with Raven that "overflow" kinda renders it suddenly half-assed, if only because of/going off of the original MP values (which pretty much never broke 200 for generics).

11. Splitting up Damage Split: I can get behind a version of Damage Split that doesn't heal (and that's mostly how I was planning to "fix" it to be truthful), but a version of Damage Split that just heals seems rather...redundant with Auto Potion still around, even if it's fluid while Auto Potion is probably fixed. They both seem like they would need something more, at least slightly.

12. Last Stand, Riskbreaker & Serenity/Focus: Is there a percentage of boost that you generally plan these abilities to reach at present? For the first two abilities, do you plan on letting them exceed their bonuses that their respective UP abilities reach at their maximum? (I ask this even though you apparently got rid of all of those.)

13. Weapon Guard: So this is not innate for your patch? Interesting. Also interesting to see it applicable for "barefists". I'm guessing that would mean that it would work for monsters as well?

14. Catch/Counter Teleport: This could be quite interesting if you could get it work. I'm curious why you would want to give the enemy Quick, though. I mean, I sort of getting, but it just seems like it's begging for loop stupidity until the character with Counter Teleport dies and disadvantaging the enemy's position seems like the entire point of the Reaction. Ergo, making it so that enemy (and only the enemy) can immediately moves is contrary.

15. Arrow Guard: I've considered it blocking Item too, but that's mostly because I hate Chemist and even then, my Chemist doesn't have any offensive items, simply because I can't abide 100%, instant, unevadable, range 3+ abilities when I already feel that Chemist is overpowered. I'm guessing you plan for your Chemist to have offensive Items available to it, correct?



1. Half of MP's replacement: I feel like this might screw up something really horribly, at least within the realm of Auto targeting. Possibly other things though, like linear abilities. (Or would this automatically increase vertical to fit as well for those?)

2. Undying: This seems rather unnecessary if I"m reading this correctly. You basically went so that "Dead" Undead units arise almost immediately within 3 or so clockticks, which means basically right after they got down? That seems...kinda obnoxious, especially if you don't change the amount of HP that can be restored when they get back up. I could get behind it if you made their effective speed when killed like 20 or something, but giving them 100 CT for every single clocktick is too much. Even then, it doesn't seem all that necessary given that you can just make Undead status itself immune to Crystal and Treasure like how both I and apparently formerdeathcorps are doing.

3. Gain Life: See Bloodfeud complaints, though 30% might likely be acceptable.

4. Armor of the Righteous & Bubble: I'm curious as to how you're going to get the display to "work"/show beyond 999 (correctly) without the ??? status to hide it and such.

5. Hunt & Devour: I can't really agree with the whole HP and MP restoration to full thing given that I already feel Secret Hunt disadvantages monsters, but hell if I can figure out what to do with them otherwise.

6. Two Hands & Two Swords: I'd argue that these needs some type of damage/effectiveness reduction since just 2x damage is a bit...much.

7. Monster Skill: Please clarify what you mean. Also, are you talking about just monsters still? Or possibly human generics as well?

8. Equip Change: As with HP Restore, I'd rather argue this would need to change or die and is not "fine" as it is in/from vanilla, especially since the AI can't use it at all.

9. "Blood Mana": Hunh. A rather interesting take on the Warmage augment, which I didn't bother considering because I thought doing just magical damage would disadvantage some magical classes. Counting negative status would solve that though, even if 10% MP might be a bit much....

10. Non-Charge: Are you actually considering letting this be available to generics?

11. "Stupidity": Heh. Seems a bit of a cruel name.

12. Gil Mana: Hmm...extremely interesting. Rather satisfies my want of an ability or RSM that relates to Gil, even if I personally don't intend on throwing Gil at players. I'm curious how this would work for the computer, though. Wouldn't the AI technically have infinite wealth, making this broken in its hands?

13. Darkside: Hmm...I never considering making it a support, probably because I still have Attack UP around. Rather interesting.



1. Fitness: Despite being dependent on something as dubious as equipment penalties, I rather like the idea of this. I think all the "Optional" aspects are fine.

2. Trance: Similarly, despite being dependent on Performing and Charging statuses, I really like the idea of this. Again, I think all the "Optional" aspects are fine. Do you intend to have the Float status remain after Charging? Or last only until Charging finishes (or is otherwise interrupted)?

3. Runic?, Curse?, Life Magnet? and Exorcist/Prayer: The only one of these I can really sort of get behind is "Curse?" and that's mostly because I was considering a Miasma-esque ability myself. Outside of that, is ally healing for Exorcist/Prayer so supposed to also go off enemies' Max HP? Similarly, is Runic actually supposed to being HP damage or just MP damage?

4. "Wheel Walker?"/"Wormhole?": I can't decide if this is really cool, rather insane or just a quirkier but ultimately weaker version of Teleport. Then again, those options aren't exactly mutually exclusive.

5. Lifestream?: Yeah, this seems like it might need terrain specific effects to be worth using, though I'm not sure how that will work.

6. Disperse & "Skywalker": See my compliants "to" Razele in my first post in this thread.

7. "Hammerdown"?: Wouldn't this also have to eliminate the inability to target people who have a difference of height greater than 3 from you (with melee weapons) for it be worth using? Or is that just supposed to be implicit?

8. Explorer: ...Damn, I feel like an idiot for not just calling "Move-Find Item" "Explore" now. I might have to steal this sans the lava-related stuff because it kills at least three sickly birds with one boulder.

9. Mutter: I can't really get behind this, though unlike other "3 range" panel movements, it's largely because I have no idea what your Talk Skill is like.



Okay. So that took a while, but I suppose I should also do formerdeathcorps.

Let me note here that you should have probably noted what exactly it was that you changed between versions since only a few things, like "Dragon Spirit" now add Regen before Critical, jumped out at me:


1. X Saves: Makes sense to both have them limit the amount of PA reduced if they have addition caps and triggered by enemy attacks only, which is really the bigger worry; it makes sense for quite a few reactions, if not most of them, to only be triggered by enemy attacks. Also makes more and more sense for Speed Save & Critical Quick to be combined if so possible.

2. HP Restore: It seems like it would need a larger MP penalty than 20, but then again, you did say that you plan lowering MP quite it would seem, so.... Rather interesting that you would have it go off Faith%. I can understand why, though.

3. Balance: I can't tell whether this is underpowered or overpowered. I need to think about it more and I'm only noting it despite my "uncertainty" note because this one sticks out the most.

4. Faith Down: I agree with Pickle Girl Fanboy here, basically, and as such, find his "Divine Wrath" to be superior to this.

5. Auto Potion: I agree it probably needs some type of "penalty", but I'm not sure how much this actually will affect things even as severe as 25 CT would seem for most other reactions. It partly depends on how much HP it would restore versus how much "typical" HP damage gets done. Still, it's something.

6. MP Switch: Interesting to have it activate twice, though I'm not sure how necessary that is. This is probably a stupid question, but I "have" to ask: it doesn't activate at all if the unit is out of MP, correct? Because it's worded at present seems to technically mean that if one had high enough Faith, due to the separate overflow trigger, they could potentially block "overflow" full damage with no 0 as long as they passed that second check.

7. Magic Guard: Please clarify how this is replacing Weapon Guard if Weapon Guard is innate on everything.

8. Abandon: I'm still not really sure how or why this counts a Support, but it's not like you went out of your way to make it one, so this is just a generic comment.

9. Counter Status: Please clarify if it's the same negative status just inflicted like Pickle Girl Fanboy's "Vergeltung" or a random negative status like Eternal248's "Jinx".

10. Death Wish: Is there a fixed range to this? Or is it literally any type of damage?

11. Pin Down: Uh...good luck with this. That's all I'm saying.



1. Blood Magic: I'm guessing this would work only if the user has no MP left? Otherwise, this seems extremely bad, especially since the AI kills itself with recoil attacks all the time (at present). Similarly, would this affect overflow for spells that go into 0, eliminating "no MP" cancellations as well?

2. Martial Arts: Hunh. Making it buff weapons with WP less than 9 (inclusive?) is quite interesting. Quite interesting....

3. Throw Item: I'm guess these aerodynamic weapons are still "Direct" and not "Arc", correct?

4. Equip Change: For someone who hasn't played FFXIII, do you mind explaining the Paradigm Shift thing further? I could probably look it up on Final Fantasy Wikia, but I'm not quite sure if that's what you're getting.

5. Mimic: This is also something needs further clarification or better wording if so possible.



1. Flight & co.: I don't think that Fly needs +1 Move unless it's been nerfed in some unmentioned capacity. I kinda agree with Pickle Girl Fanboy about the other +1 Move ones, but I can see why they're there.

2. Flee: I also agree with Pickle Girl Fanboy that his having Ignore Height is kinda...random.

3. Quickness: I'm not really sure how necessary this is considering there weren't really Speed formulas--that did damage--in vanilla to begin with sans, what, Throw? But if you say you need it....

4. Extremism: Seems kinda weird, yet as someone who plays fighting games, I "get" this: It's basically reverse Guts. Interesting.

5. Trample: Is this new to the updated version? Regardless, I'm kinda wary of recoil, but otherwise it could be interesting and it's one of more movement-oriented "Movements", which is also nice.

6. Disarm: I agree with Pickle Girl Fanboy here as well, but looking at your equipment, it seems a necessary evil. I guess.



I'm not even going to bother looking for typos right now. Please forgive me for not giving a fuck right now after typing all of that, especially with everything else I should be doing right now instead.

Priority EDIT: It would seem that spelling people's obvious names correctly is not a priority. For shame.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

April 17, 2012, 04:57:33 pm #11 Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 05:07:59 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
EDIT
Looks like I can't put a quote inside a spoiler tag.  Wall of text ahead.
/EDIT

First of all, IT'S PICKLE GIRL FANBOY, OR PGF FOR SHORT!  Second, I re-upped the plain text file, modified to play nice with windows.

REACTIONS
Quote1. X Saves: I was under the impression, even with ASM stuff, that one would have to make stat boosts akin to status effects to get them easily repealed. Tying them to HP makes it seems even more dubious, though thinking about it a bit more, I think I see what you're aiming for now. I'm guessing that +4 stat is the max stat increase since these are static, correct? Regardless, I can't agree with letting that much Spd be built up, even if it isn't (nearly) as abusive as vanilla could be in that department, especially since the AI is likely to benefit due to how it acts in Critical status; that and due to the player being a lot more likely to intentionally damage itself to set off the stat-raise.

These abilities aren't reactions because they react only the ratio of your current hp to your max hp.  If your current HP drops to 1% of max, then you get the maximum bonus.  If you heal to 100% of max, then all bonuses disappear.

Quote2. Caution/"Divine Wrath": I'm guessing N would be divided by...something considering that doing it off basic damage is rather insane. Otherwise, this is a pretty neat idea.

I didn't specify what I n would equal, because I'm not sure how much faith will affect the power of magic yet.
In Vanilla, n would probably equal 7 faith, so every time you get hit by a faith based spell, you lower the enemies faith by 7 if it causes (1% to 33% of max hp) damage to your current hp, 14 if you take (34% to 66% of max hp) damage to your current hp, and 21 if you take (67% to 99% of max hp) damage to your current hp.

Raising Faith will be rather easy in this game, since lowering it will be so common-place.

Quote3. Dragon Spirit: I can't really agree with this between potentially adding Haste AND Reraise as well as other things that basically make an action version of Mbarrier. Perhaps if each positive status replaced the other I could get behind it, but then that might be a weak. I'd be more comfortable with it if lacked Haste or Protect & Shell, but still kinda uncomfortable since I don't like Reraise.

The thing is, this reaction first checks what buffs you already have, and then it removes those buffs from the pool of buffs it can add to you, when you are damaged.  So if you have protect and shell, and you take hp damage, but you aren't critical, then it will add either regen or haste, since those are the only two it has left in it's pool.

Quote4. Brave Up & Face Up: These get set off by all types of damage now? It could end up rather abusive, especially if more of each leads to more damage and Brave & Faith don't reset like how you intend PA, MA & Spd to.

Actually, no.  I forgot all about that.  Brave Up only works with physical damage, faith up only works with magical damage.  Or maybe not, I need to play test them.

Quote5. Martyr: This seems like a Reaction because of the way that Absorb Used MP works and because it "activates" by damage. Not sure why it would be a "Support", though I doubt it would really matter given what you said you wanted to do with RSM "equipping".

It really is more of a passive reaction though, along with vanilla Parry and vanilla Abandon, because it works all the time.

Quote6. HP Restore: I'd quite disagree that's fine as it originally is, but it's very difficult to argue that in a vacuum without knowing what other changes you're planning.

It's fine, I think, because it's completely dependent on having enough HP that you will be Critical before you die.  While that's certainly doable with Bubble and Armor of Righteousness, there are much cooler things you can do in conjunction with those two Supports - like Last Stand, Riskbreaker, or that one where you counter with the amount of HP damage you've currently taken you have left.

Not only that, I may rename HP Restore "Second Wind", and add a bit it activates if it's been used once in a battle, after which it will no longer activate in that battle.

Quote7. Critical Quick: Ironically, despite feeling that Speed Save shouldn't exist as it still does in your picture, this is probably the best "fix" to Critical Quick that I've seen. Still kinda dubious, though, especially +30 CT seems a bit...excessive. +25 maybe?

Again, (n) in this case equals 10, so therefore (n * 3) = 30.  It will take some play testing to find the best balance, but this is a much better Reaction than vanilla Critical Quick, because it's useful if you don't hit Critical, and yet it isn't nearly as powerful as vanilla Critical Quick in that you don't get a guaranteed turn before the next guy if you're at Critical.

Quote8. Meatbone Slash: I really don't like this as if it is now even though, if Meatbone Slash is kept around, it does need to change from vanilla. As it is now, this just obviates Counter outright, which is...bad even as barebones as Counter is.

What if the enemy only deals 12 HP damage to you, and you counter with 12 HP damage?  If you had Counter, you could've nailed that bastard with your weapon.

Quote9. Vergeltung: Odd name--is this German for something? (Oh, for "to revenge")--aside, this is an idea and get behind. I've been kinda thinking of it, but more as an active ability. A reaction is probably the easiest way to do it, though. Would there be some type of limit to the inflicted statuses it can return? Similarly, I'm assuming it would at least not return positive statuses, correct?

Nope, it returns all statuses, good and bad.  Vergeltung is closer to retribution or paying back, than it is to revenge, because it can mean a blessing as well as a curse.  This is one of the most useful reactions in the game, because you can caste haste on this guy, and whoever's around him, and he'll return it to you.  And then when an Oracle puts him to sleep, he'll put that Oracle to sleep.

Quote10. MP Switch: I believe that Pride or Glain actually already fixed the "overflow" issue so that HP damage does occur now. It was sometime last month or earlier this month, IIRC, though as much as I dislike this reaction, I found myself agreeing with Raven that "overflow" kinda renders it suddenly half-assed, if only because of/going off of the original MP values (which pretty much never broke 200 for generics).

There are so many ways to regenerate MP that this ability is fine even with the overflow bug fixed.  I like it because I imagine it will make battle frantic attempts to do things to gain MP while that casting of Meteor looms over your head, or during a mage duel when you're trading flares back and forth.

Quote11. Splitting up Damage Split: I can get behind a version of Damage Split that doesn't heal (and that's mostly how I was planning to "fix" it to be truthful), but a version of Damage Split that just heals seems rather...redundant with Auto Potion still around, even if it's fluid while Auto Potion is probably fixed. They both seem like they would need something more, at least slightly.

Potions and Ethers are combined.  Potions work on a percentage, and no one potion is better than any other - they all cost the same too.  There are 5 of them.
1. 40% of Max HP, 08% of Max MP
2. 32% of Max HP, 16% of Max MP
3. 24% of Max HP, 24% of Max MP
4. 16% of Max HP, 32% of Max MP
5. 08% of Max HP, 40% of Max MP
Auto-Potion works 100% of the time, but it chooses one of these Potions at random.  Sure, you can game the system and only have the first type of Potion, but what happens when need one of the others?  Not only that, I can rig something that alters the prices of items depending on how many are in your inventory (Equipped and not equipped), so that items become more expensive the more of them you hoard.  To prevent this from becoming "Inventory: The Game".

Quote12. Last Stand, Riskbreaker & Serenity/Focus: Is there a percentage of boost that you generally plan these abilities to reach at present? For the first two abilities, do you plan on letting them exceed their bonuses that their respective UP abilities reach at their maximum? (I ask this even though you apparently got rid of all of those.)

Last Stand  = Defense UP + Magic Defense UP, where the amount of damage reduction is zero when your Current HP = Max HP; and is 25% (or 33%, or 12.5%, or whatever) when your Current HP = 1% of your Max HP.

Riskbreaker = Attack UP + Magic Attack UP, where the amount of damage increase is zero when your Current HP = Max HP; and is 25% (or 33%, or 12.5%, or whatever) when your Current HP = 1% of your Max HP.

Focus      = Attack UP + Magic Attack UP, where the amount of damage increase is 25% (or 33%, or 12.5%, or whatever) when your Current HP = Max HP; and is zero when your Current HP = 1% of your Max HP.


Quote13. Weapon Guard: So this is not innate for your patch? Interesting. Also interesting to see it applicable for "barefists". I'm guessing that would mean that it would work for monsters as well?

Would it work for Monsters?  Probably.  It won't be innate for the Monk, since the Monk won't benefit from it (seeing as his/her stats are perfect for the normal unarmed formula).  This is more to fix AI stupidity, which always equips this ability when it won't benefit them.  As such, I'll probably modify it so it uses whichever stat is highest to replace the ~modifiable portion of every weapon formula, and for abilities labeled as weapon strikes.

Quote14. Catch/Counter Teleport: This could be quite interesting if you could get it work. I'm curious why you would want to give the enemy Quick, though. I mean, I sort of getting, but it just seems like it's begging for loop stupidity until the character with Counter Teleport dies and disadvantaging the enemy's position seems like the entire point of the Reaction. Ergo, making it so that enemy (and only the enemy) can immediately moves is contrary.

Usually, in FFT, everyone on one side moves first.  So, if some dumb-ass Archer hits your time mage, then your time mage will be demolished when the Knight moves after the Archer, and kills your freshly teleported Time Mage.

And then later, when it's your turn to move, the Archer will be demolished by your team-mates, who saw what his team-mates did to their buddy, the unfortunate Time Mage.

I have a much better idea: when you are attacked, Teleport the enemy which attacked you to a random unoccupied panel that is not an obstacle, and is not water if the enemy has Cannot Enter Water equipped or as an innate, and is not lava if the enemy does not have Lava Walking or Float equipped..  That way I don't have to worry about the teleported units being immediately killed off.

This still leaves one problem: you can send your tank, with this ability, into the enemies's midst, and then watch them warp all over the battlefield.  From that point on, it's just a matter of hunting them all down, since they're already divided.  Knowing this, I figure that Counter Teleport should send both the unit that attacked, and the unit that was attacked, to random non-obstacle panels, provided they can walk on them.

Quote15. Arrow Guard: I've considered it blocking Item too, but that's mostly because I hate Chemist and even then, my Chemist doesn't have any offensive items, simply because I can't abide 100%, instant, unevadable, range 3+ abilities when I already feel that Chemist is overpowered. I'm guessing you plan for your Chemist to have offensive Items available to it, correct?

Maybe, maybe not.  I will have items that are, well, risky.  Like a "home remedy" that may cure all status effects, and may add Death or Invite.  Or a mind-altering mushroom that can increase MA by 3, and heal MP, but may also cause Confusion or Berserk.  Or an bottle of home-brewed whisky that increases SP by 3, but may turn you into a Frog or a Chicken.

I need to find the table where items are hard-coded to their respective abilities, and expand it.


SUPPORTS
QuoteHalf of MP's replacement: I feel like this might screw up something really horribly, at least within the realm of Auto targeting. Possibly other things though, like linear abilities. (Or would this automatically increase vertical to fit as well for those?)

I've no idea.  FDC told me in chat that this will require some AI recoding.  I don't know if it would increase Vertical as well, but I don't see why not.  +1 vertical will be fine.

QuoteUndying: This seems rather unnecessary if I"m reading this correctly. You basically went so that "Dead" Undead units arise almost immediately within 3 or so clockticks, which means basically right after they got down? That seems...kinda obnoxious, especially if you don't change the amount of HP that can be restored when they get back up. I could get behind it if you made their effective speed when killed like 20 or something, but giving them 100 CT for every single clocktick is too much. Even then, it doesn't seem all that necessary given that you can just make Undead status itself immune to Crystal and Treasure like how both I and apparently formerdeathcorps are doing.

Kill them and they pop back up.  You're right about the HP restored thing, it needs to be less random.

QuoteGain Life: See Bloodfeud complaints, though 30% might likely be acceptable.

Again, requires play-testing to balance.  Not sure if this works against Undead.  I might just ditch this, though, since it's by far the oldest of the Supports I jacked from Razele, and I have plenty of other ideas.  Not only that, there are other ways to get this same effect - Blood Sword and Bloody Strings being good examples.
Speaking of Samurai, I want to ditch the current Draw Out thing (Katana breakage, spares, abilities tied to weapons in inventory), and make Draw Out's require an equipped Katana, and then alter the affect of each ability so it varies depending on the equipped Katana.

QuoteArmor of the Righteous & Bubble: I'm curious as to how you're going to get the display to "work"/show beyond 999 (correctly) without the ??? status to hide it and such.

ASM hacking.  And it obviously won't display correctly, but you'll know what's going on, as will the AI.  And no ???, for these two abilities.  Though now that we know where to find the code that deals with this stuff, it can be done.

QuoteHunt & Devour: I can't really agree with the whole HP and MP restoration to full thing given that I already feel Secret Hunt disadvantages monsters, but hell if I can figure out what to do with them otherwise.

Restore to half then.  And boy will it suck when that Behemoth eats your level 99 Calculator, and all his gear.  Good thing nothing's missable.  Non-generics obviously will not be eatable.

QuoteTwo Hands & Two Swords: I'd argue that these needs some type of damage/effectiveness reduction since just 2x damage is a bit...much.

Maybe reduced accuracy for Two Swords (drop to 87.5% of normal), and increase Accuracy by 12.5% and damage by 38.5% for Two Hands.

QuoteMonster Skill: Please clarify what you mean. Also, are you talking about just monsters still? Or possibly human generics as well?

Just like Defend or Equip Change.  The table thing I make a table like this, that gives a skillset to a class when this ability is present:
Chemist       : Item
Archer        : Charge
Geomancer     : Geomancy
Ninja         : Throw
Calculator    : Math Skill
Holy Knight   : Holy Sword
Divine Knight : Mighty Sword
Dark Knight   : Dark Sword
Engineer      : Aim

This is just an example.  I don't intend to do this specific thing.

QuoteEquip Change: As with HP Restore, I'd rather argue this would need to change or die and is not "fine" as it is in/from vanilla, especially since the AI can't use it at all.

This is doubly true for my patch, because there will be no Ribbons that protect against all debuffs, and neither will there be ultimate armors or weapons.  In the end, every item will be good for a certain set of circumstances, so that the dumb-ass AI won't be punished for equipping random shit.

This gives the player an advantage, because the player can equip something that blocks Fire when they're targeted with Ifrit.

So maybe I'll make Equip Change cost you both a Move and an Act.

Quote"Blood Mana": Hunh. A rather interesting take on the Warmage augment, which I didn't bother considering because I thought doing just magical damage would disadvantage some magical classes. Counting negative status would solve that though, even if 10% MP might be a bit much....

Yeah, the percentages for kills, buffs, debuffs, healing, and hp damage are just me eyeballing it.  They need to be play-tested.

QuoteNon-Charge: Are you actually considering letting this be available to generics?

Probably not, considering it makes Short Charge useless.  Mostly Enemy Only, if I keep it at all.

Quote"Stupidity": Heh. Seems a bit of a cruel name.

If someone wants to do a level 1 game, while mastering every job class, then they're welcome to do so.  I still think they're twits, though.  And no matter how many jobs you master, or how much equipment you get, the game will not become easy.  At least, it won't the way I'm modifying it.

QuoteGil Mana: Hmm...extremely interesting. Rather satisfies my want of an ability or RSM that relates to Gil, even if I personally don't intend on throwing Gil at players. I'm curious how this would work for the computer, though. Wouldn't the AI technically have infinite wealth, making this broken in its hands?

We can limit their wealth to the same calculation that determines the amount of money you get after a random battle.

QuoteDarkside: Hmm...I never considering making it a support, probably because I still have Attack UP around. Rather interesting.

Yep, it's perfect for your favorite Dark Knight, since I intend to reduce the amount of HP healed by dark sword to 75%, or 50%, and all Sword Skills will work based on [WP * (PA - Y)], instead of [WP * (PA + Y)].  Sword Skills will cause less damage than a Sword Strike, to offset their increased Range, AOE, Vertical, Elements, Add:Status, and 100% hit rates.

MOVEMENTS
Quote1. Fitness: Despite being dependent on something as dubious as equipment penalties, I rather like the idea of this. I think all the "Optional" aspects are fine.

Yeah, it's just what you want for a Squire - whom you expect to be young, fit, and as dumb as a sack of doorknobs - and yet it will be useful for all classes derived from the Squire.

QuoteTrance: Similarly, despite being dependent on Performing and Charging statuses, I really like the idea of this. Again, I think all the "Optional" aspects are fine. Do you intend to have the Float status remain after Charging? Or last only until Charging finishes (or is otherwise interrupted)?

No, Float only lasts while you're Charging.  I was inspired by the image of a mage concentrating so hard he floats above the ground and doesn't notice it.  And you'll need that extra Jump and Move, to run away from all the people trying to kill you while you're Singing or Charging that spell.

QuoteRunic?, Curse?, Life Magnet? and Exorcist/Prayer: The only one of these I can really sort of get behind is "Curse?" and that's mostly because I was considering a Miasma-esque ability myself. Outside of that, is ally healing for Exorcist/Prayer so supposed to also go off enemies' Max HP? Similarly, is Runic actually supposed to being HP damage or just MP damage?

Healing goes off the person who's being healed, their Max HP.  Runic is MP damage.  I don't like these guys much, because they aren't really Movement abilities.  I made more R/S/M abilities than I had slots, so I could pick the best ones, and get rid of the rest.  These guys will probably go, though I would like Blood Sucked units to teleport anywhere on the battlefield, so maybe they'll get that effect along with Blood Suck status.

Quote"Wheel Walker?"/"Wormhole?": I can't decide if this is really cool, rather insane or just a quirkier but ultimately weaker version of Teleport. Then again, those options aren't exactly mutually exclusive.

Fly is Monster Only, Vanilla Teleport (called "Warp" here) is Monster Only, Ignore Height doesn't exist, and Teleport 2 costs an Arm (Act) and a Leg (Move).  So all the benefits of Vanilla Teleport aren't available to the player, except in broken up ways.  This is the move through obstacles portion of Teleport, taken to it's logical and hilarious conclusion.

The other effect of Teleport - move through enemies as though they are allies - is present in Nightstalker, and conditionally in Flee and maybe Bloodlust.

QuoteLifestream?: Yeah, this seems like it might need terrain specific effects to be worth using, though I'm not sure how that will work.

We have a table that we reference, that provides certain bonuses and penalties depending on the terrain you are currently standing on.

QuoteDisperse & "Skywalker": See my compliants "to" Razele in my first post in this thread.

Disperse might just go away, or it might be limited to only certain status effects, but it isn't terribly useful.  Your Oracle, Mediator, Bard, or Calculator will spend more time dodging Guns and Swords and scrimping for MP than it will spend removing debuffs.  Perhaps I'll add something that copies your own negative buffs to enemies that get too close, and remove Disperse entirely.  This would be very useful for Faith.

As for Skywalker, the other effects - all weapons get the Spear damage bonus for Jump, and modified horizontal jumping is useful in most cases, as it allows you to jump gaps that you couldn't otherwise, in all circumstances.  The +Move the higher you go just encourages you to act like a Lancer should, and stick to the rooftops, where they work best.

Quote"Hammerdown"?: Wouldn't this also have to eliminate the inability to target people who have a difference of height greater than 3 from you (with melee weapons) for it be worth using? Or is that just supposed to be implicit?

Didn't think of that.  It's 3 down, and 2 up, by the way.  At least for fists, I think it is.  I don't know.  Have to think about it.

QuoteExplorer: ...Damn, I feel like an idiot for not just calling "Move-Find Item" "Explore" now. I might have to steal this sans the lava-related stuff because it kills at least three sickly birds with one boulder.

Make sure you add the "Will not trigger traps, ever" portion.  And you might need Lava movement if you want to find stuff on Lava.

QuoteMutter: I can't really get behind this, though unlike other "3 range" panel movements, it's largely because I have no idea what your Talk Skill is like.

Talk skills are basically incredibly annoying, but not lethal.  I may just change Finger Guard to be more like Hamedo - if someone attempts to use a Talk Skill on you, you throw a Stone at them, and their Act is canceled.

And this is inspired by my experiences with homeless people.  Sometimes you get one of them who follows you around and mutters to himself until you pay him to go away or frighten him away.

formerdeathcorps

April 17, 2012, 08:41:27 pm #12 Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 09:13:46 pm by formerdeathcorps
Death Wish:
No range limitations off any kind of HP damage; that's why the MP cost is so high.

Counter Status:
It transfers only one of your negative statuses to your physical attacker.  It obviously has no effect if you have none.  It's meant to be stacked with Swordmaster's Sacrifice ability.

Magic Guard:
Weapon guard's effect is innate but the reaction slot that once was weapon guard is now replaced by magic guard.  I'm actually undecided whether it should override concentrate though.

MP Switch:
I don't think you are reading this correctly.  The reaction has a fixed 70% chance of activation.  HOwever, if the enemy does too much damage, it will spill over to your HP UnFa% of the time (so higher Faith means higher chance of your MP guarding the hit).  I created this double system to keep MP Switch from being broken.  Even if you had 100 Faith + Move-MP Up and it never carried over to HP, you'd still not get 100% activation of the reaction (not to mention the fact your opponents can still destroy you with status effects).  Obviously, if MP is 0, it won't activate.

Faith Down:
I have Unfaith attacks as well, so I don't want reactions drastically lowering faith if you can then chain it to massive damage.

Blood Magic:
Yeah, you're right.  That was just an implicit assumption on my part that should have been spelled out.

Throw Item:
Correct, though some of the items will increase range, proc effects, or increase their WP when thrown (relative to when used as a weapon).

Mimic:
All right, let's say Unit 1 has A Save and Unit 2 has M Save.  If Unit 1 has the support ability mimic and is attacked by Unit 2, Unit 1 will first trigger M Save.  If that fails, Unit 1 will then try to trigger A Save.  Obviously, since both are tied to the same reaction trigger of damage, both can't be triggered simultaneously.
Repeat the scenario, but let Unit 2's reaction be Counter Magic.  Then if Unit 1 is attacked with a sword, Counter Magic will not trigger.
Repeat the scenario, but let Unit 2's reaction be Abandon.  Then both reactions trigger for Unit 1 because Abandon is passive.
Just looking over my reactions, however, it is possible to exploit this by chaining any Fa/Br% reaction to Faith/Brave Up/Down.  I think in a situation like that, I'll force Faith/Brave Up/Down to always trigger before any other reactions.

Fly:
I'm not sure I agree.  Move +1 and Fly together are only slightly better than Move +2 in vanilla, I think.  I want my abilities to be useful all the time (with the option to be occasionally more useful), rather than abilities that are only useful under special circumstances.

Flee:
By the same logic as the above, Flee must have an ability that's useful when you aren't in critical.  Flee + Trample is actually a really nice idea.

Trample:
I just came up with this on the spot so I'm not sure how broken it is.  Right now, it affects everything, but I suspect it really needs to just affect physical attacks.  Also, although you have to use two units to do it, you can get an extremely high XA number between the attacking rider and his 7 Move mount.  This is why I feel a recoil is necessary, though I may need further restrictions.

In general, I don't mind having supports or counters override other equipment choices, supports, and counters because the double support system allows people to make extreme setups in evasion, defense, or offense.  I personally wish to put such setups on diminishing returns, and I do this by creating one support which isn't optimized for power but can counter 2+ supports, equips, or reactions.  This creates a more fun metagame (though I won't do what Yu-Gi-Oh did and try to create explicit counters for these counters; that just creates a metagamey mess which is no fun to play).


Updated again, I guess.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Vanya

I have one that if it were made would get me back into my Classics hack.

Dualcast

By itself it won't do a damn thing so you can easily fit it into a blank slot.
Here's my idea. I was just thinking that the reason that no one has done a proper Dualcast ability is partly due to how difficult it is to hack command menus. So why not do it as a general hack that checks for a specific RSM? I'm thinking that one could hack the turn resolution routine to check for the use of spells + the Dualcast RSM. Then make it not end the unit's action phase and grey-out non-magic menus if both conditions are met. Is that doable or is it like ridiculously hard?
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
¯\(°_0)/¯

Pickle Girl Fanboy

I'm stealing Magic Guard, if I make the Weapon Guard effect innate.  Though I'll obviously create a base Unarmed Parry rate, as well.

I'm stealing some other things too, like the reduced accuracy for Two Swords.  You may want Two Hands to slightly increase accuracy.

The Damned

(I'm still pondering to changing my avatar to one of Thief avatars for appropriateness.)

I fell asleep while writing this on Tuesday night due being awake for more than 24 hours, but I figure I might as well continue and finish it as if I started it now outside of that note. So I'm just going to put the stuff beneath this down regularly without quotation marks or any other indications to show that I only got as far as responding to Pickle Girl Fanboy's Meatbone Slash.


(*facepalms really slowly since he's been up more than 24 hours*)

My sincere apologies for repeatedly spelling your name incorrectly, Pickle Girl Fanboy, especially since I know to spell your name and looked at it several times. I guess me screwing up that much just shows what an idiot I am. Oh well. Not surprising.

Anyway, it's fixed now.

To respond to your responses, I'll just continue using spoilers, though only one for each of you this time:

1. X Saves, "Divine Wrath", Brave Up, Face Up, Martyr, Critical Quick, MP Switch, Last Stand, Riskbreaker, Focus, Weapon Guard, Arrow Guard, Half of MP's replacement, Gain Life, Armor of Righteousness, Bubble, Two Swords, Two Hands, "Blood Mana", Non-Charge, "Stupidity", Gil Mana, Darkside, Fitness, Trance, Runic?, "Curse?", "Wheel Walker?"/"Wormhole?", Lifestream & Disperse: I see.

2. Dragon Spirit: Oh, I got that. I wary of it being fragmented MBarrier is all.

3. HP Restore: It's sort of like Mutter in that it's difficult to gauge it in a vacuum since it largely depends on how much damage you're going to want your units to be doing to one another on average. That said, I'd completely support it staying around if there was indeed a way to make sure that it fired only once. I was thinking of that as possible, but I wasn't sure it was (easily) possible. Also, yes, "Second Wind" is a superior name.

4. Meatbone Slash: I don't really buy that argument. While it's certainly true and something I thought of when I first looked at it, if they're honestly doing that little damage to you and their turn and you equalize that minor amount, they're most likely already doomed anyway, especially if they wasted that right turn next to you.

5. Vergeltung: You would put attempt to the enemy to Sleep even if Slept? So you intend to let this Reaction get around the usual statuses that can't react? Also, I'm guessing this means that it reacts for procs from weapons and other things as well, yes? I'm not really sure I can get behind it knowing that it affects positive statuses too; that seems like something that the player can abuse way better (read: at all) compared to the AI, at least the current AI that can't see any unit's reaction.

6. Auto Potion: That idea is interesting even if it seems rather overcomplicated and likely to heal too much, especially for something that would trigger literally all the time and that's dependent only on Gil, which wouldn't really stop people, especially with "Stupidity" around to help people grind without gaining levels.

7. Counter Teleport: Well, yes, I got the everyone moving at one-time thing being why you were considering Quick. I was just saying that it probably make things even worse. The random solution sounds rather complex, but it might end up being the best solution if you're insistent on having it. It seems like there should be another way to make it fairer, but I can't think of one right now off the top of my head.

8. Undying: That doesn't (clearly) answer the potential time/speed problem I was talking about, but at least we agree that the HP restored to Undead needs to be less random.

9. Hunt & Devour: Hunh. I missed that Devour applies to any class. I'm not sure whether that makes my perceived issue with it appear better or appear worse.

10. Monster Skill: I'm still not sure I understand what you're getting at here, especially since you said that you were using any of the classes in this example. Basically, you want Monster Skill to add an entire tertiary skill set that's specific to separate classes, yes? Also, you want those skillsets to be different of their primary skill set? Or...?

11. Equip Change: The catch-all stuff is only part of the problem. I don't have any catch-all stuff in my currently planned equipment and I'm still considering killing off Equip Change just because letting it change over just one thing would kinda screw over my current elemental plans/focus, much less letting it change over all things at once. So I'm not quite sure if making it take Move as well will change much/enough.

12. Life Magnet?: The teleportation with Blood Suck would be nice considering how I thought Teleport was part of Blood Suck anyway due to it only really ever coming up in the Elmdor battle where you're probably already whoring Teleport yourself. That said, would you making it so that Blood Suck didn't "contaminate" those bitten 100% of the time? Or so that it was at least evadable (since I don't think it is at present; I don't feel like opening FFTPatcher right now, lazy bastard that I am)? I'm guessing it would still be an KO.

13. Skywalker: Hmmm...I suppose the horizontal thing being emphasized more, even having realized that's what you were getting at from the beginning, makes me slightly ready to accept it. However, I still contest the height issue on maps--with regards to the general lack thereof--to take truly take advantage of it, which was the primary issue in the first place.

14. Hammerdown?: I'm aware of that. I was just going with max distance.

15. Explorer: Isn't "not triggering traps ever" already inherent in Move-Find Item? That's why I didn't mention it. Also, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with lava panels too. I'm probably not hiding any items in them, though.

16. Mutter: Interesting justification, though it does nothing to dissuade me along the lines of still not knowing what your Talk Skill set is. That said, I like the Talk Skill Hamedo-esque ability more,though perhaps preemption instead of cancellation would be better. I guess it depends on what you do with Hamedo though....



Now moving on formerdeathcorps, who I still say should point out in this thread what's he's changing between versions, though I can personally tell the more obvious things he's changed between the three versions:


1. Death Wish: Oh, 15 MP is "high" in your patch? That's...telling.

2. Counter Status: So it's basically single-status Rippler. Got it.

3. Weapon Guard: I suppose I should have been clearer (as always). My question was actually this: If you replaced Weapon Guard with Magic Guard, then innate Weapon Guard would still exist? I ask because it would be nice to know that if actually had one more "reaction" space then I think I currently have.

4. MP Switch: I was reading it correctly outside of reading into it as worded that it would activate at 0 MP due to false independence. Otherwise, I understood that.

5. Faith Down: But wouldn't Faith Down be more abusive since it's the allied unit that you control and thus could prepare for lower Faith/UnFaith abuse rather than a single enemy unit that would go down easier to the same unFaith unit who could still abuse it but not as strongly?

6. Blood Magic: Okay, good to know. I'm guessing it does work for overflow then? Or does the user really need to be at 0 MP for it start working?

7. Throw Item: Right. I had noticed that/those, but thanks for confirming further.

8. Mimic: Okay. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

9. Fly: Completely bypassing obstacles, enemies, allies and height is only "slightly" better than an Move point? Okay, if you feel that way.... I'm hardly trying to make say that things should be "niche", especially as difficult as it is to make worthwhile Movements without doing the extremely tedious thing of editing at least several maps.

10. Flee & Trample: I suppose combining them could make sense, especially given the panicky, pushy idiocy that fleeing cowards tend to do in real-life. It would certainly better than the seemingly random Ignore Height aspect as well as the somewhat helping to self-activate the Flee aspect in the first place. Of course, there are still the problems of the AI stupidly killing itself with the (necessary) recoil and then having to think up yet another of the already difficult Movements. Also, yes, restricting it to physical abilities would be for the best it seems. I was going to mention that it looked like it took magick into account as well, but I assume it was implicitly PA, so I didn't say anything.



There. That was much less painless compared to other one. Probably there were only like a third of the things that I replied to beforehand. (Still not looking typos right now. Going to bed/nap for a bit. Night.)
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

April 19, 2012, 04:01:34 pm #16 Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 04:08:30 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
Quote2. Dragon Spirit: Oh, I got that. I wary of it being fragmented MBarrier is all.

Fair enough.  Personal taste, I guess.  And I removed all the other buff reactions, so I figured I'd throw them all together.  I may modify the pool so that Shell is only considered if the HP damage was caused by a magical attack, and Protect is only considered if the damage was caused by a physical attack.

Must I add that you'll have to be attacked four times, without getting reduced to critical, to get all the buffs besides reraise?  Could you survive three attacks, in one turn?  Would you need something more than protect, regen, and haste to survive one more attack?

Quote3. HP Restore: It's sort of like Mutter in that it's difficult to gauge it in a vacuum since it largely depends on how much damage you're going to want your units to be doing to one another on average. That said, I'd completely support it staying around if there was indeed a way to make sure that it fired only once. I was thinking of that as possible, but I wasn't sure it was (easily) possible. Also, yes, "Second Wind" is a superior name.

I think firing once could be what Square originally intended, but they were misunderstood by the programmer that made this.

Quote4. Meatbone Slash: I don't really buy that argument. While it's certainly true and something I thought of when I first looked at it, if they're honestly doing that little damage to you and their turn and you equalize that minor amount, they're most likely already doomed anyway, especially if they wasted that right turn next to you.

Like I said before, I have more than enough R/S/M abilities, I can afford to drop the lame ones.  This one seems like a dud, since it's basically Reflect Damage and Counter.

Quote5. Vergeltung: You would put attempt to the enemy to Sleep even if Slept? So you intend to let this Reaction get around the usual statuses that can't react? Also, I'm guessing this means that it reacts for procs from weapons and other things as well, yes? I'm not really sure I can get behind it knowing that it affects positive statuses too; that seems like something that the player can abuse way better (read: at all) compared to the AI, at least the current AI that can't see any unit's reaction.

Bolded text: Forgot about that - no, if a status prevents reactions then it won't be reflected.  Though I will reduce the number of status effects the prevent reactions.

Italicized text: Depends.
*Weapon based status procs: Nope.
*Ability based status procs: Yes.
*Positive and negative statuses: Yes.  It's usefulness to the AI depends on the class I place it on, it's learn rate, it's JP cost, and how often that class appears in battles with buff classes.  If it's on a class that usually hangs out with White Mages, Time Mages, Samurai, and Tree-men, then yes, it will benefit them enormously.  It's also useful for classes that are especially vulnerable to debuffs - Silence will be changed to Palsy (Prevents the use of physical attacks, perhaps excluding Attack - and it may negate reactions), so mages will have one less thing to worry about, since there are so many ways to screw with them (MP reduction, Confusion, Berserk, Frog, Chicken, Silence (in vanilla), Faith reduction,...).  So if your Oracle casts confusion on a Calculator with Vergeltung, he'll end up confusing himself as well.

Quote6. Auto Potion: That idea is interesting even if it seems rather overcomplicated and likely to heal too much, especially for something that would trigger literally all the time and that's dependent only on Gil, which wouldn't really stop people, especially with "Stupidity" around to help people grind without gaining levels.

It will when the enemy spams Steal Gil, and Steal Gil can literally bankrupt you.  And when prices increase the more of an item you have in your inventory.  And when you basically need a set of almost every piece of equipment for every person in your party, so you can be ready for anything.

Quote7. Counter Teleport: Well, yes, I got the everyone moving at one-time thing being why you were considering Quick. I was just saying that it probably make things even worse. The random solution sounds rather complex, but it might end up being the best solution if you're insistent on having it. It seems like there should be another way to make it fairer, but I can't think of one right now off the top of my head.

Removing unfairness is more important that increasing fairness.  And this exists to make the game wilder.

Still, it doesn't need quick when it sends you and your attacker to a random inhabitable panel.

I may give this to a Zodiac boss, for the lulz.  Enjoy trying to get more than one person to attack him for every turn your entire party gets.

Haha, Elmdor needs this.  Oh, you wanna steal from me, bitch?
*teleports away and then blood sucks your ally on his next turn*
I don't think so.

Quote8. Undying: That doesn't (clearly) answer the potential time/speed problem I was talking about, but at least we agree that the HP restored to Undead needs to be less random.

Maybe I'll change the CT gain rate when a unit is both Dead and Undead to SP * 2 per clocktick.

Quote9. Hunt & Devour: Hunh. I missed that Devour applies to any class. I'm not sure whether that makes my perceived issue with it appear better or appear worse.

Hunt applies only to monsters, Devour to Monsters and Generics.

Quote10. Monster Skill: I'm still not sure I understand what you're getting at here, especially since you said that you were using any of the classes in this example. Basically, you want Monster Skill to add an entire tertiary skill set that's specific to separate classes, yes? Also, you want those skillsets to be different of their primary skill set? Or...?

I forgot to mention in that example that all the NPCs would get Basic Skill (Squire) as their primary skillset, plus Innate Monster Skill, which would grant their unique skillset.  That's just an example though, it's not what I'm really doing.  I'm actually not sure what I want to do with this.  It's something for me to screw around with, a sort of mini-ARH.  Just a dynamic table, where you list a class ID on one side, and the skillset ID you want Monster Skill to grant them on the other.  Multiple Skillsets for the same class are allowed.

Quote11. Equip Change: The catch-all stuff is only part of the problem. I don't have any catch-all stuff in my currently planned equipment and I'm still considering killing off Equip Change just because letting it change over just one thing would kinda screw over my current elemental plans/focus, much less letting it change over all things at once. So I'm not quite sure if making it take Move as well will change much/enough.

I have the same elements as Vanilla, and a much greater variety of elements in abilities as well, so it's less of an issue for me.  IIRC, FDC's Formula rewrite will make AI consider equipment, so they'll be really nasty when they attack you, so you might just need Equip Change with my equipment setup.  Anything that makes the AI smarter is good, especially if they become so smart you need something they don't have or can't use to balance it out.

God help us all if they figure out how to use Equip Change to protect against likely attacks, incoming damage, or if they learn what they need to change to improve their chances against your party.

Quote12. Life Magnet?: The teleportation with Blood Suck would be nice considering how I thought Teleport was part of Blood Suck anyway due to it only really ever coming up in the Elmdor battle where you're probably already whoring Teleport yourself. That said, would you making it so that Blood Suck didn't "contaminate" those bitten 100% of the time? Or so that it was at least evadable (since I don't think it is at present; I don't feel like opening FFTPatcher right now, lazy bastard that I am)? I'm guessing it would still be an KO.

Just change both the Blood Suck abilities to not procure Blood Suck status all the time, and make them evadable and counter-graspable.

Quote13. Skywalker: Hmmm...I suppose the horizontal thing being emphasized more, even having realized that's what you were getting at from the beginning, makes me slightly ready to accept it. However, I still contest the height issue on maps--with regards to the general lack thereof--to take truly take advantage of it, which was the primary issue in the first place.

Maybe it could make you consider all units as stepping stones, so you could jump on their head and move over them?  Nah, that's too crazy, since it's basically move through enemies as though they are allies, with a Jump requirement.

And you're right that there aren't many battle with height, but on battles that do have height, Lancers and others with this ability will dominate.

I intend to make every rare battle a single-class battle.  Just you versus 16 Lancers in (maybe) Germinas Peak.

Quote14. Hammerdown?: I'm aware of that. I was just going with max distance.

Nah.  I thought about it, and I don't want to modify that, because then your monk could get on top of a box and punch a guy six feet below him.  I just want this to be something for ranged weapon users and people using JUMP (lancer action ability).

Quote15. Explorer: Isn't "not triggering traps ever" already inherent in Move-Find Item? That's why I didn't mention it. Also, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with lava panels too. I'm probably not hiding any items in them, though.

Nope.  With move-find item, you don't trigger the trap if it has a treasure.  Once the treasure is gone, you trigger the trap 100%, if you have move find item.  There is a bit toggle in trap data, though, which toggles when it triggers.  Most don't trigger if you don't have move-find item.  This is only on story battlefields.  On non-story battlefields (Zeklaus desert, whatever replaces the windmill shed, that swamp near limberry, and deep dungeon), the traps always trigger, so you can study the difference between treasure/trap data on story battlefields and these battlefields to determine which bit does that.

As for lava: it's only one battlefield, so it won't end the world if you decide not to add move on lava to explore.  Though it will be a pain in the butt editing trap/treasure data, since you need a terrain (obstacle, height, water & depth, 1st/2nd floor, lava) map of that battlefield which includes x and y coordinates as found in treasure/trap data and entd data, along with heights.

I was actually working on such a map, but I didn't finish it.  Forgot where it is, look in FFT hacking of Help, look through my posts in those boards.  The other maps for this game, like the ones for treasures found at GameFAQs don't always have the same x and y coordinates as ENTD data.  Often they're reversed, so you have to compare them to values in FFTPatcher to get the map correct.

Quote16. Mutter: Interesting justification, though it does nothing to dissuade me along the lines of still not knowing what your Talk Skill set is. That said, I like the Talk Skill Hamedo-esque ability more,though perhaps preemption instead of cancellation would be better. I guess it depends on what you do with Hamedo though....

I like being able to block Talk Skills, so I like the cancel with a Throw Stone.  I picked Throw Stone because it's mostly harmless (unless you're near the edge of a tall cliff), and the idea of throwing a rock at someone as soon as they open their mouth is funny.

As for mutter, I can pick some of the weaker talk skills.  Or at least the funnier ones.

The Damned

("I wary"? "Much less painless"? More like "I idiot", especially since I still don't feel like fixing it right now.)

So, since this day has already been a bust, I might as well do this while I'm still not really doing anything else that could be interpreted as productive. I'll try to keep this concise; I wouldn't be too productive after all:

1. Dragon Spirit: Oh, it's not like I'm thinking it's overpowered or anything. I'm just wary of it because a) I hate Reraise(d) and b) I'm instinctively going off my currently planned damaged for Embargo, which is probably generally lower than most people in the instance you'll probably only ever be able to 2HKO people rather than OHKO people like in vanilla or 1.3. You say you think it's fine, then I have no choice but to believe you (in this instance).

2. HP Restore: Yeah, I think the same really, though that may be a rare bit of optimism considering what other broken crap tends to pop up Final Fantasy games, "intentional" or otherwise.

3. Meatbone Slash & Hammerdown?: Getting rid of these might be for "the best", but it's ultimately up to you.

4. Vergeltung: The bolded text clarification instantly makes me a lot more receptive to this idea. The weapon proc thing not happening either slightly helps, though I'd be lying if I said I was as decided about that.

5. Auto Potion: Oh, so you're keeping Steal Gil? I see. That doesn't make me that much more accepting of it, but it's nice to know.

6. Counter Teleport & Life Magnet?: "Fair enough", so to speak. Also, good to know about Blood Suck. I still feel kind of bad about getting rid of the status myself, but if you (or someone) can find a way to get more use of it without all the problems it causes, more power to you.

7. Undying: That seems a lot more acceptable as a change than the insanity of what's basically 100 Speed per clocktick. It's still probably better off as part of Undead status itself, but, again, up to you. I personally want to make quite a few changes to Undead status, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up as I said earlier.

8. Hunt & Devour: I am aware (now). I should have said "all generic classes", but I figured that was implied since you explicitly said that it wouldn't work on special characters. I have a question, though, now that I type that out: How are you going to make sure that it applies to special characters no matter what class they are? After all, you could probably make it not apply to any special character-only class, but if they want to switch around for the user controlled special characters...? (The answer is probably something insanely obvious.)

9. Monster Skill: Oh, okay. That's what I thought you were getting at, but your example only confused me further. I'm not really sure what I think about that, but I suppose I'll see how I think of it when you flesh it out more concretely.

10. Equip Change: Oh, so formerdeathcorps's mechanics will affect AI's access to/consideration of this. I see. That somewhat gets rid of the "unfair" charge, though it still doesn't really alleviate most of my problem with it. I'm surprised that you would think that having more diversity of elements, as I do, would make Equip Change less problematic; it's entirely possible that you have less Absorbing equipment than I have at present--I probably have too much since I have two for each element, even with the weaknesses.

11. Skywalker: Very well. I thought you couldn't get more than 11 enemies on the field (in a battle where the player got 5 units) since you could only have 16 units maximum, though. Did something change?

12. Explorer: *facepalm* Oh, right. I'm an idiot. I should know that, especially since I've been thinking more and more about wanting to change over traps since I really hate Steel Needle and that Death Sentence one and, well, it's not like anyone's using the Degenerator trap anymore. I'm at least aware of all the map stuff I would need to change, though. Oh so unfortunately aware.

13. Mutter: Wait. When did Throw Stone come into this? Otherwise, okay.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Pickle Girl Fanboy

April 19, 2012, 07:51:59 pm #18 Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 04:57:09 pm by Pickle Girl Fanboy
Quote8. Hunt & Devour: I am aware (now). I should have said "all generic classes", but I figured that was implied since you explicitly said that it wouldn't work on special characters. I have a question, though, now that I type that out: How are you going to make sure that it applies to special characters no matter what class they are? After all, you could probably make it not apply to any special character-only class, but if they want to switch around for the user controlled special characters...? (The answer is probably something insanely obvious.)


Devour Psuedo Code:
If (targetclassID greater than (class below squire), and less than (class after mime), then (go to stat section of success rate), otherwise fail)

Repeat with monster classes.

Or use the thing used for names, I think, where 80 is a generic male, 81 is a generic female, 82 is a monster and anything else is an npc or unit with dialog.

Quote11. Skywalker: Very well. I thought you couldn't get more than 11 enemies on the field (in a battle where the player got 5 units) since you could only have 16 units maximum, though. Did something change?

Didn't know that.

Quote12. Explorer: *facepalm* Oh, right. I'm an idiot. I should know that, especially since I've been thinking more and more about wanting to change over traps since I really hate Steel Needle and that Death Sentence one and, well, it's not like anyone's using the Degenerator trap anymore. I'm at least aware of all the map stuff I would need to change, though. Oh so unfortunately aware.

I'll finish the map when I get FFTPatcher and pSX 1.13 Windows to work with Wine.  It's actually a spreadsheet, not a map, and it has visual representations of everything you need to know when editing the ENTD or treasures/traps.

http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5660
^Here it is.

We really need such a feature built into FFTPatcher.  Especially once map editing catches on - FFTPatcher will have to fetch the relevant data from the maps themselves, which the modder already inserted into FFT.

Quote13. Mutter: Wait. When did Throw Stone come into this? Otherwise, okay.

I'm making Finger Guard, which blocks Talk Skills, into more of a Hamedo for Talk Skills.  It pre-empts a talk skill with throw stone (they'll have the same range), and it'll cancel the talk skill if it connects.

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Quote from: Vanya on April 18, 2012, 04:52:21 pm
I have one that if it were made would get me back into my Classics hack.

Dualcast

By itself it won't do a damn thing so you can easily fit it into a blank slot.
Here's my idea. I was just thinking that the reason that no one has done a proper Dualcast ability is partly due to how difficult it is to hack command menus. So why not do it as a general hack that checks for a specific RSM? I'm thinking that one could hack the turn resolution routine to check for the use of spells + the Dualcast RSM. Then make it not end the unit's action phase and grey-out non-magic menus if both conditions are met. Is that doable or is it like ridiculously hard?

Totally missed your post, due to excessive Ctrl + F "Damned".  I've no idea, ask FDC.