Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Use of ePSXe before 2.0 is highly discouraged. Mednafen/RetroArch is recommended for playing/testing, pSX is recommended for debugging.

Job & Skill Proposals/Idea Thread  (Read 40233 times)
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 17
Vanya [Posts: 3957]
  • View Profile
  • My Facebook
  • share
  • [November 27, 2009, 03:21:22 AM]
(No subject)
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2009, 03:21:22 AM »
Mime is troublesome. I'm preparing to create an ASM hack that allows the Mime to have skills. Right now if you give a Mime skills they only get to keep them until you leave the menu because the game is programmed to skip the code that writes skills to the appropriate RAM addresses. The problem is that I have to remove some code from certain routines and modify others. Fixing the equipment glitch that basically destroys all equipment after returning from a battle is a whole other can of worms.

I'm seeing some really good ideas for the Red Mage.
Skip's idea of replacing Chemist with a Red Mage that has low level spells is pretty swank. It would go great with the hack to give every unit access to Item and the one to limit item usage during battles.
I also like the FFXI suggestion from, Dormin Jake. It is an updated version of the old style Red Mage with the extra added oomph of specialized skills. The thing that would really complement this flavor of Red Mage is a good Dual Cast support skill. For which I have an idea. Utilizing one of the blank support skill slots; a not too complex ASM hack could be made that makes the use of specific skillsets (white, black, time, yin-yang, & red magicks) work twice. Basically, it would prevent the game from greying out magic commands unless it has triggered a specific RAM address. This would eliminate the need for the Red Mage to have access to multiple spell lists, although, that still may be possible. Barring the availability of such ASM hacks, what could be done is to give the Red Mage's spell list a boost by adding some additional black, white, time, and yin-yang spells. Possibly the additional spells could be adaptations of old spells not originally found in FFT.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Vanya »
    • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • ¯\(°_0)/¯
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 27, 2009, 04:10:00 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #41 on: November 27, 2009, 04:10:00 AM »
    my only problem with Dormins idea is that it bleeds too much into the Mystic Knight class  (which is something I'd also like to bring up, but Red Mage first).  Imo Red Mage should stick to low-level magics and maybe have one or two unique spells, MAYBE.

    The current cap for spells is 16, or the current cap for all abilities + R/S/M is 16?

    Cure 1/2
    Protect
    Shell
    Raise
    Fire/Ice/Lit 1/2
    Poison
    Blind
    Sleep
    Haste
    Slow

    is a pretty good bank imo.  I'd like to squeeze Don't Move in, but we're already at 16 and either haste or slow removing?  Nah.  Removing cure/fire/ice/bolt 1 would make the bank better imo, but its certainly not fitting for only rank 2's if this job occurs in a chemist's place.

    Quote
    what could be done is to give the Red Mage's spell list a boost by adding some additional black, white, time, and yin-yang spells. Possibly the additional spells could be adaptations of old spells not originally found in FFT.


    As is their potential spellbook is already packed, but imo those spells are better off in their primary skillsets regardless.  Also, a good portion of said spells would require some hacks.  Using FF1 as an example, spells to increase/decrease accuracy/evasion would be welcome, but red mage exclusive?  Nah.

    edit:  actually, blind/transparent work as status, but for production's sake we'd need to change the graphic on transparent and make sure to enable the enemy attack ASM =\

    edit2:

    Mystic Knight!  In ff5 they were hybrid fighters, boasting the ability to imbue their weapons with black magic and inflict elemental yet physical damage to their enemies.  In FFT this is easily re-created, albeit on an attack by attack basis rather than burn one turn to buff up and then just letting her rip.  Mind, we're basically giving swordskills to generics (:)) but:

    Formula 2D = (PA + Y) * WP coupled with the sword strike ASM hack now gives the Mystic Knight access to the main elements (Fire, Ice, Lit, Dark, Holy) -- Earth, Water, and Wind are usually in the realm of the blue mage.

    Fire Strike
    Ice Strike
    Lightning Strike
    Holy Strike
    Drain Strike (suck it beo)
    Spell Strike (long and slow)
    Death Strike
    Stone Strike
    Poison Strike
    Sleep Strike
    Frog Strike
    Flare Strike

    would be a good start.  The status inflicters can probably get by with normal damage with a 25% proc rate.  Flare Strike can have its Y value boosted.  All abilities would be instant yet have an MP cost, especially among the statusers because while poison may be inferior to Sleep, if it's 4 times as cheap it might see some use.  Range would be weapon-based.  

    Role-wise, these basically replace geomancers, who essential would be booted off to the magical side of things (and we can make elemental adopt the (MA + Y) * MA formula)
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by philsov »
    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
    Orlandu [Posts: 155]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 27, 2009, 04:36:24 PM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #42 on: November 27, 2009, 04:36:24 PM »
    well.. mystic knight skills are somehow identical with parivir's.. without the status inflicting effetct of course.. i kinda like to have parivir in my fft..

    how do you do it philsov? i mean, let's say making an fire strike using a normal sword swing, but having burn effect. just edit the abilities on the fftpatcher is enough?
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Orlandu »
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 27, 2009, 05:44:46 PM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #43 on: November 27, 2009, 05:44:46 PM »
    don't see why not.

    only kicker is free ability space just doesn't appear,  so gutting another classes' abilities would probably be the easiest path.  Geo (and elemental) would probably get the boot.  But between the formula (2D, so we can give it an element -- straight weapon strike might not).  But between the animation and effect and the rest of fftpatcher, all that is easily doable.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by philsov »
    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
    Guess who is back?
    Shade [Posts: 1078]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 27, 2009, 07:51:58 PM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #44 on: November 27, 2009, 07:51:58 PM »
    I think you should give MA UP skill to red mages so they could learn it.

    MA BASED MYSTIC KNIGHTS WTF!?
    Just no.
    Make them PA based. or PA and MA.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Shade »
    Upupupu...

    Zetsubou
    Wasabi [Posts: 187]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 28, 2009, 12:43:15 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #45 on: November 28, 2009, 12:43:15 AM »
    If I read correctly, Mystic Knights won't be MA based, but PA based with the formula 2D swordskill formula. Geomancers will be with (MA+Y)/2*MA (at least that's what I think you were intending, philsov, since without the division component Elemental would be WAY OVERPOWERED).

    And mind my ignorance, but I don't exactly understand the sword strike ASM. Does that prevent formula 2D from becoming weapon elemental, and make the ability abide by the elemental it's applied with? Also: As much as I do enjoy seeing the Mystic Knight's swordskills being weapon-ranged, I feel that considering that this game is an SRPG giving their skills a range of 2 (single target) wouldn't be a bad idea. It won't compete with other big name spellcasters/melee-fighters in the job-wheel, and it will give the Mystic Knight some flexibility on the field.

    Also, if the Red Mage is going to have the MA Up support skill, I believe the Black Mage should have reassembled multipliers and maybe CTs to compensate for it.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Wasabi »
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 28, 2009, 04:00:03 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #46 on: November 28, 2009, 04:00:03 AM »
    well the shift to elemental (which, yes, has that 2 divisor) is more a post production thought, since Mystic Knight is a magic/melee hybrid while the FF5 Geomancer was mostly caster.  But then again the geomancer may be the primary candidate for the Mystic Knight class, at least as far as easy class creation is concerned;  so it could be a moot point.

    Regarding the sword strike ASM, what it does is enable elemental properities.  In classic FFT swordskills were flagged as elemental but in reality their only element was weapon-based.  This is why Weigraf (and Dycegarg) used to be cheesed by simply giving everyone a chameleon robe and frolicing through the place -- the AI thought because the abilities were flagged as holy elemental the player would absorb it -- but if they actually used them (AoE targetting a nonabsorber, for example), they'd all fall down dead.  With this hack in place, this enables the creation of the Mystic Knight class.  

    Regarding Spell Blades' range, 2 is probably best, but probably not requiring a sword to use, as spell blade was usuable on all manner of weapons -- swords, axes, daggers, spears, etc.  Anything melee range from the physical tree is fair game, by relation.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by philsov »
    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
    SilvasRuin [Posts: 1405]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 28, 2009, 05:50:36 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #47 on: November 28, 2009, 05:50:36 AM »
    Kind of tired at the moment, so I'll read through the other Red Mage posts later.  Has anyone mentioned giving them a focus-firing/assassination type of setup for abilities?  I mean giving them spells that only hit a single panel.  It would keep them from just using the exact same abilities as several other classes.  I also kind of like the idea of giving them the random hit formula and making the maximum number of hits 3.  That should average it out to two attacks per cast, so it would be double-casting with a chance of one failing or getting an extra cast.

    The reason for this suggestion is that the way I see them is they aren't as powerful as any other job in any area, but they always have some option that would be effective against the enemy.  In my opinion, the best way to express being prepared for any situation would be to go with "assassination" spells of each of the most common spell types.  The spells striking 1-3 times is just a little something extra to emulate double-casting without complicated hacks.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by SilvasRuin »
    Vanya [Posts: 3957]
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook
    • share
    • [November 28, 2009, 07:45:02 PM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #48 on: November 28, 2009, 07:45:02 PM »
    Added:
    "Original" Red Mage
    "Classic" Red Mage
    "Vana`diel" Red Mage
    "Steiner" Mystic Knight

    Parivir is basically just a Mystic Knight with samurai equipment. However, go back to the NES version of FF3 and you will discover that the "Mystic Knight" in that game was just a dark looking knight which could use katana-shaped 'dark' swords & some white magic. So you can see a bit of a connection.

    The "classic" notion of the Mystic Knight comes from FF5, and is basically represented in FFT as Beowulf, they just gave him all stat inducing spells instead of the usual elemental fair for some reason I can't seem to understand. That said, I figure the best place to model a Mystic Knight's stats from is Beowulf. The skills Philsov suggested are quite good, but I would keep them at weapon range. After all, Mystic Knights can wear heavy armor for a reason. They should definitely use a PA + MA formula for damage since the combination of physical and magical damage is the defining feature of the job. I'd also give the skills some CT to offset the power of such combined attacks. When making those skills you should also be sure NOT to turn on the "follow target" boolean. It would look silly to have short range attacks strike after the target has left. BTW, I'd like to mention that Steiner's version of Spellblade/Sword Magic functions in the manner which FFT is capable of on it's own without any ASM hacks.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Vanya »
    • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • ¯\(°_0)/¯
    Slowly resume pixel art, work somethg favourite ~
    jimmyjw88 [Posts: 2913]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 01:54:55 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #49 on: November 29, 2009, 01:54:55 AM »
    Ah, Mystic Knight, physical and magical, sword strike and sword elemental strike. Steiner, Yay ^^
    I think a job something like Steiner would be nice.
    For the Red Mage, I kinda like Dormin's idea.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by jimmyjw88 »
    Kindly upload the images to other image hosting sites. I can't view imageshack. Thanks.
    Vanya [Posts: 3957]
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 03:05:05 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #50 on: November 29, 2009, 03:05:05 AM »
    I have a question for you guys. Do you think I should do separate tutorials for each flavor of a job or merge the flavors into a single document that explains them all?
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Vanya »
    • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • ¯\(°_0)/¯
    Dormin Jake [Posts: 409]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 03:12:09 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #51 on: November 29, 2009, 03:12:09 AM »
    I'd say do the latter, all variants under one heading.  Less confusing that way, especially considering some of these variants only differ in one or two areas.

    Might I say, by the way, I love this topic?  I love this topic.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dormin Jake »
    We are Dormin. Thou art to bring us a tasty beverage.
    Slowly resume pixel art, work somethg favourite ~
    jimmyjw88 [Posts: 2913]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 04:00:42 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #52 on: November 29, 2009, 04:00:42 AM »
    I think merge everything is better. A single document that explains everything.
    « Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 05:35:58 AM by jimmyjw88 »
    Kindly upload the images to other image hosting sites. I can't view imageshack. Thanks.
    Wasabi [Posts: 187]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 04:10:39 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #53 on: November 29, 2009, 04:10:39 AM »
    Quote from: "Dormin Jake"
    I'd say do the latter, all variants under one heading.  Less confusing that way, especially considering some of these variants only differ in one or two areas.

    Might I say, by the way, I love this topic?  I love this topic.


    This. You can easily separate each category under a given custom job with the "list" post-command and present each explanation with a [li]. Everything will still be merged within one document (with proper procedure).

    And, not to offend, but I think keeping the Mystic Knight weapon range is a silly restriction. Just make them evadeable and you can keep the range at a limit of 2. Who's to say that they should be penalized because they can equip heavy armor? What can be said for Agrias, Orlandu, Gaffgarion, Meliadoul? The only benefit that I see in keeping the skillset weapon-ranged is so that [maybe] archers and gun-users can have access to the skillset.

    Aside from that comment, making their skillset entirely a fusion of PA and MA is a good suggestion, however the formula may need some tinkering. Instead of formula 2D which only implements WP and PA, the Elemental formula (PA+Y)/2*MA is probably the way to go. I've read an old topic concerning swordskills being implemented the Elemental formula, and all it needs is a proper rebalance with the Y multiplier. However, those that are finnicky with keeping the Mystic Knight's "Spellblade" weapon-based might have a disagreement with this notion, since the formula is based on the unit's stats and have no say on the WP value. That is unless I'm unaware there is an ASM hack that can change formula 2D to use the MA value instead of PA.

    And also, if the Mystic Knight's skillset is free from the "Require Sword" boolean, will there be any extensive protocol to keep Monks or barehanded units from using the skillset? From my knowledge with FFTPatcher, I don't see anything that would prevent them from using the skillset since there are no booleans that call for an ability to be restricted only to weapons (only the ones that require either the sword or Materia Blade). Granted if the skillset is given a formula with a WP component in it, it will turn out to be a blank skillset for the unit, but I do want to see if there is a way to balance this loophole.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Wasabi »
    Slowly resume pixel art, work somethg favourite ~
    jimmyjw88 [Posts: 2913]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 05:47:57 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #54 on: November 29, 2009, 05:47:57 AM »
    I think that the skills should only available with sword. It's kinda funny to use swordskill with barehands.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by jimmyjw88 »
    Kindly upload the images to other image hosting sites. I can't view imageshack. Thanks.
    mav [Posts: 2610]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 02:55:42 PM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #55 on: November 29, 2009, 02:55:42 PM »
    Quote from: "Vanya"
    I have a question for you guys. Do you think I should do separate tutorials for each flavor of a job or merge the flavors into a single document that explains them all?
    Like Jake said earlier, keep all the variants under one heading.

    As for Mystic Knights, if it's possible to allow them to only use skills when a sword is equipped, then do that. And as far as weapon range goes, I'm in the middle: I like what Wasabi mentioned, about making them evadable with a range of 2, but I kinda feel like it should be weapon range. So I guess I dunno...
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by mav »
    Dormin Jake [Posts: 409]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 29, 2009, 03:23:52 PM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #56 on: November 29, 2009, 03:23:52 PM »
    Quote from: "mav"
    And as far as weapon range goes, I'm in the middle: I like what Wasabi mentioned, about making them evadable with a range of 2, but I kinda feel like it should be weapon range. So I guess I dunno...

    The way I see it is, if swinging a sword is one panel range, then swinging a sword that happens to be on FIRE should also just be one panel range.  Giving them two panel range, even with evasion, borders dangerously on becoming generic lolswordskillz, and honestly I feel like the likes of Agrias, Orlandu, Meliadoul, and Beowulf are overpowered enough.

    Weapon range looks like it'd be the most "realistic" (as realistic as you can get as far as electrifying spears and coating arrows in, uh, earth, goes), but being able to do swordskill damage with possible elemental weakness from 8 panes with a gun seems like it'd need some serious balancing.

    To play devil's advocate, 2 panel range would be more fun and useful, and as long as it's kept a single panel targeting and the Y-value of the formula kept under control, I don't think it'd be too bad.  It just doesn't make much sense, as far as real world logic goes.  Then again, neither does Stasis Sword.

    Personally in favor of the PA*WP swordskill formula and not requiring swords.  It keeps the class clearly physical, and at the same time prevents attacking things with ice elemental bare hands.  The WP in the formula requires something to be equipped, at least.  And honestly, why shouldn't you be able to empower your Battle Dictionary with the might of the sea?

    That's my self-contradictory 8 cents.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dormin Jake »
    We are Dormin. Thou art to bring us a tasty beverage.
    Vanya [Posts: 3957]
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook
    • share
    • [November 30, 2009, 12:05:33 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #57 on: November 30, 2009, 12:05:33 AM »
    Quote from: "Dormin Jake"
    Might I say, by the way, I love this topic?  I love this topic.


    I'm glad you like it! ^_^

    Interesting ideas for the Mystic Knight. I'm thinking there will be 2 additional variants; "Classic" & "Updated".
    The classic conforms as much as possible to the original FF5 version, while the updated form has, primarily, the extended range and restriction to swords. Any more ideas for the updated flavor? Possibly something that makes it fit in better with FFT?

    Incidentally, I only found one other variant, which is the FFX-2 Warrior. It is basically a cross between a Mystic Knight & a FFT Knight. The main attraction here is the Elemental weapon strikes which are purely physical attacks with an elemental added on. They also do consume MP. I think this would fit in with the "Updated" flavor.

    List updated:
    Mystic Knight - "Classic", "Steiner", & "Updated"
    Alchemist
    Necromancer
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Vanya »
    • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • ¯\(°_0)/¯
    SilvasRuin [Posts: 1405]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [November 30, 2009, 12:45:21 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #58 on: November 30, 2009, 12:45:21 AM »
    For the red mage variants you listed, which name refers to which flavor?



    Nevermind, I think I've got it figured out now.

    I like the 2 range idea for the mystic knight abilities.  Either that or require swords to prevent them from being fired from bows or guns.  A range of 2 would allow them at least a bit more of an edge than just abusing the enemies' weaknesses.  Also, for the record, the only significant difference between Mystic Knights and Parivir is appearance, especially considering it was the ninja/dark blades that the original ones wield in the first release of FFIII.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by SilvasRuin »
    Vanya [Posts: 3957]
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook
    • share
    • [November 30, 2009, 02:13:47 AM]
    (No subject)
    « Reply #59 on: November 30, 2009, 02:13:47 AM »
    They were actually katana, not ninjato, which makes them even more similar to Parivir.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Vanya »
    • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • ¯\(°_0)/¯
    Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 17