Zodiac Crisis

[Lydyn]

I respectfully disagree on a lot of those changes because it'd make some of the classes useless and make some battles unplayable or even easier than the normal "vanilla" battles (in my opinion). I'm sure someone's going to point out I didn't say anything about making all classes useful or whatever ... and they'd be right, I didn't. I hadn't thought it was needed. *Shrug*

I also might change the goals as well, since everyone has different ideas of how crazy it is or how crazy it should be, etc. I find it plenty right now, myself, as some of the battles have been pretty intense. If you think it should be more crazy and actually want to play it opposed to just saying your opinion and leaving, PM me for the patch file and you can make the rest of the changes you want for yourself.

Anyways, I might take some of Asmo's ideas, I might not, and some of them I've already did (Time Mage with Galaxy Stop & Innate Short Charge).

[Archael]

Take ALL of his ideas!!! They are fun as hell.

Who cares about balance or some classes getting left behind?


I thought this was supposed to be a crazy patch?

[Asmo X]

Yeah. You declared it was going to be crazy and now you're pulling back. You're going to end up with a bunch of non-sensical, random changes for a patch with no theme and no decent goal. It'll just be just like FFT but the knight at Dorter uses a Nagrarock.

You should call your patch "Final Fantasy Tactics: Dorter Knight has a Nagrarock"

[Lydyn]

Well, I care and since I'm taking all my time to make the entire patch myself ... I won't take them all. I just don't agree with some of them. Like I said, if you want something different and are actually going to play it, I'll just give you the patch file once I turn out the first release.

Asmo: What the hell? It sounds like your trying to insult my ideas now ... >.< If you don't like them, just leave and stop commenting on this. It's my time and my patch and there are people who seem to enjoy my changes.

[Asmo X]

I'm assuming the knight got the Nagrarock by chance so I don't see how I'm insulting your idea.

[Lydyn]

I gave it to him on purpose and that's not the only change in that battle. I also feel insulted because it's like your saying my patch is lame and saying I'm "pulling back" like it's a bad thing. It's still my time and effort and if you don't like it ... don't play it.

Also, take time to read the first post, there's way more changes then a single knight having a single sword. It was just a screen-shot. Anyways, I'm done with this argument. I've already said two times that I'll give you the patch file and you can make it more crazy if you want ... hell, I'll even be nice and post anyone's alternative versions here, at least if they're polite about it.

[Asmo X]

Give him 2 Nagrarocks.

Also, please stop being reduced to a blubbering wreck every time some random person on the Internet might be criticising you. In fact, getting emotional over any criticism is downright stupid. It will kill your creative powers, and allow you to cultivate an ego that is out of touch with reality. If a person has something negative to say about one of your ideas, evaluate it with an open mind and move on. End of story.

[Lydyn]

How about you stop being rude? And I'm not getting "emotional," I'm getting annoyed. I always get annoyed at people who voice their opinion like they're right and I'm wrong. You don't like it, oh well. *Shrug*

Two Nagrarocks is also sort of useless anyways... it was mostly ment just to have something silly towards the beginning, if you look at it's forumla in my first post.

Anyways, I'm at the point of you either be polite and considerate or just stop posting on this topic. If you want to be rude and post here, I have no reason to respond much to your ideas. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, but you don't have to.

[thewhoandthehare]

how about archers have innate secret hunt, and bards get two swords and higher MA and/or PA

by the way I agree with Lydyn, it is his patch not rajinili's or asmo x's

[Asmo X]

This is exactly the problem. Raijinili and I offer dissenting opinions on this patch and any reasonable-minded person would actually consider this a GOOD thing. Get this nonsense out of your head that criticism = bad. It doesn't matter if the person is being arrogant or rude or just trying to insult you. If you make a big deal about that, you won't recognise what might actually be a good idea. I'll say it again: Evaluate and move on. To that I might add: Patch first, ego second.

[Lydyn]

Really, I'm not repeating myself again Asmo, I swear. I'm not being egotistical, I simply don't like some of the ideas and some I might ... and since I'm doing all the work, it really doesn't matter if you argue with me or not. I've also said three (now four) times I'm okay giving you the patch file and I'll post your alternative version so it's easier for people - given your polite about it.

You don't like my attitude, you know what a good solution is? Stop posting here. Wouldn't bother me in the least. You can't except everyone to be like you or think like you, because being polite is important to me. I also find being open-minded important to me, not just assuming because you like some changes that anyone who doesn't like it is suddenly not reasonable-minded.

Criticism is perfectly fine as long as people are polite about it. So please, if you really don't like the fact I'm offended by rudeness and arrogance ... stop posting! ... seriously.

how about archers have innate secret hunt, and bards get two swords and higher MA and/or PA

Might be a good idea ... I don't know. I wanted to make sure every class had their own thing going for them. Like thieves have Two Swords, but they're weaker on whole and can't throw stuff. Maybe I should give Bards some Priest spells? And what about Dancers?

Red chocobo should be able to cast Non-Charge Meteor. Like, for-real Meteor. Not that gumdrop thing it currently has.

Wizard: Flare 2, Toad 2, Some Accumulate skill that add 5 MA

Time Mage: Galaxy Stop, Innate Short Charge, Innate Teleport

Oracle: Grand Cross

Ninja: 10 Move

Knight: Orlandu

Generic Squires: All-Ultima, Scream (can scream at allies), Accumulate adds 5 PA

Calc: Old Calc

Mediator: Invite MA+70. Lots of enemy Mediators

Crossbows can be two-sworded, so can guns, so can K swords and spears. In fact, everything can be.

I already increased the damage on their meteor anyways, and I'd rather keep the crazy skills to Tonberries.

Wizard: Already has All-Ultima and you can't do an Accumulate that adds +5 MA.

Time Mage: Already has Galaxy Stop & Innate Short Charge. I suppose Teleport might not be a bad idea..

Oracle: Isn't even Oracle anymore... and there's already a 'Grand Cross'-like spell on Calculators.

Ninja: I dunno about that. Not so keen on having enemies ninjas going up to you and killing themselves effectively because they're weak compared to almost every class.

Knight: ... yeah. I'd rather not steal entire skillsets from special characters and that's a bit unbalanced so early.

Squires: Have Ultima... but I'm content them not getting much since they're the starting class. Accumulate does +2 PA though.

Calculator: I just didn't like them and I find the current version more fun by far. *Shrug*

Mediator: Not even sure what you ment, to be perfectly honest.

Guns are can be two sworded, but I'm content leaving crossbows & spear out of the picture, since it just seems really odd. I might add something else though, I suppose, like status effects on crossbows and 25% casting of spells on spears. Of course, that begs the question what to do with normal swords. Knight Swords could already be Two Sworded.

[Raijinili]

You don't like my attitude, you know what a good solution is? Stop posting here.

The same can be said for you. What gives you any more right to criticize his behavior than he has to criticize yours? You're not, as you make yourself out to be, the chairman of this topic, or any such thing. Once you post the topic, it's completely out of your control. I don't know what boards you've been to, but this is how it works in the real world.

All I wanted was a convincing reason not to include Reflect. This doesn't seem that difficult to me. But all I see is that you "don't like it", and as far as I can tell, it was because you didn't know how to use it, so I showed you how to use it (and it wasn't that hard). The AI knows how to use Reflect, so that couldn't possibly be an honest reason. It only takes a two-turn little setup to use it efficiently, so it's not making any classes "unusable" as you claim.

Wouldn't bother me in the least. You can't except everyone to be like you or think like you, because being polite is important to me.

Yet up to this day, you've been the rudest member I've seen here, and I would bet most of the members would agree. You're kind of a jerk.

[VincentCraven]

As Raijinili pointed out in another post, how about making Mime available from the start?  Unless, of course, you made every class available from the start anyway.

[Austin]

how about archers have innate secret hunt, and bards get two swords and higher MA and/or PA

Innate secret hunt creates problems when you go to the fur shop and try to sell your furs, but for bards and dancers I suggest lowering the CT on their dances/songs, and increasing their stats by a bit. They have good abilities but they're just too slow to use.

[Lydyn]

how about archers have innate secret hunt, and bards get two swords and higher MA and/or PA

Innate secret hunt creates problems when you go to the fur shop and try to sell your furs, but for bards and dancers I suggest lowering the CT on their dances/songs, and increasing their stats by a bit. They have good abilities but they're just too slow to use. I did the same thing with most abilities, doubled the effectiveness and added +40 to the percentage. I also lowered all CT by 2, except the 'Last Song/Dance,' which I cut in half to CT: 10.

As Raijinili pointed out in another post, how about making Mime available from the start? Unless, of course, you made every class available from the start anyway.

He did? Wow, I must be blind, because I never saw that. (Edit: Oh, in another topic, hehe. Silly me.) Oh well, I see it now. ^^ It's an interesting idea... maybe just something like level 4 Squire & Chemist? Well, maybe level three since I bumped all the JP requirements up quite a bit ... or even two, which would probably be the best compromise. *Nods* Not entirely comfortable with making it available right away... Mimes are like more buffed up Monks that early on and have innate concentrate.

Raijinili: Do I really need more of a reason than "I don't like it?" I just don't, it's annoying to use and I don't like taking the time to figure out where in the world it's going to hit ... not all set-ups are as easy as your example. I really don't see why you're upset. I've said multiple times I don't mind making two seperate versions. *Shrug*

As for being rude, probably a matter of opinion, but I don't see how. I'll definitely admit I'm getting annoyed, however. I'm tired of arguing about all this and repeating myself five times... you say this is the real world? So? Doesn't mean I have to change who I am or what I like just because everyone wants to sit here and say, "this is wrong and my way is right." It's not that hard ... want me to really listen? Just calm down and be a little bit more considerate of your words. I really don't see how that's asking much, especially since this is a hobby, and my free time in creating this patch.

Were it in a job, where I get paid, and need it to live by... that's a different story. This is my hobby though and my free time and no one is paying me, so you have to realize I can refuse to do something because I dislike it. *Shrug*

Oh well ... hey, if anyone else is upset with me besides you two, they're free to message me about it. I'll completely admit I'm still developing my social skills, but I do try my best to be considerate of others.

[Lydyn]

Been thinking about that Mime idea. I think I'm going to make them a little easier to access than Ninjas and Samurais, if that sounds good. They have better HP, PA, and Speed than any other class, innate Concentrate, Martial Arts, & Defense Up ... so they're pretty good. I might have to search for Raijinili's suggestion on how to edit the class with it's own skillset and see if it really works.

[Xifanie]

None of us is getting paid to be here. You act as if you have never done anything wrong.
By the way, getting annoyed IS emotional. Don't try to deny it.
If you can't accept criticism as you've showed several times already, this topic's existence should either not be or should be simply a "Give me some ideas" topic. Because in the end, you're going to be the only one that is going to play it if you continue like that. And I don't want to host a patch with all the stuff for a 1P patch. :/
We're all in a similar situation as you are IRL, but at least we don't act like jerks about it.
And and you ARE polite in your posts, but some of your posts hide a lot of rudeness.

Well given that, you have pretty much 3 choices available:
- Quit posting
- Stop acting like a jerk
- Leave things as is, but I don't recommend it as you will be "annoyed" at the sight of some people of our community.

[Lydyn]

To be honest, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it just plain pisses me off when people tell me what I'm doing is wrong and there's no argument about it. Asmo sounded like he was saying that and then ontop of that, started to comment about how me being annoyed about it was stupid ...

Maybe you don't understand, but that's who I am. I'll admit I didn't respond in the best way, and I apologize, even though I'm stubborn about those sort of things. I'm not perfect and I'll never claim to be.

I know this might be a little late, but I'm nicely trying to say I'd appreciate those that give me ideas about this - or any other patch - to please try to take into account that even if you think an idea is 'stupid' to remember not everyone is the same, so it might be more enjoyable to others.

Much like the reflect idea. Some of you think it'd fit the patch better, some others probably think it's stupid not to include it, but some of us don't even want to see that in the patch.

Anyways, if I have been a jerk, I'm sorry. I'm just asking everyone to respect my ideas and my choices. I choose to make two seperate ones, for those who're still interested, for those who enjoy the ranged attacks = good, and for those who dislike the idea. Seems like I still need a lot of practice with my social skills. )
• Gather Power
• Gigaflare

The way I'm thinking of it was giving them the Phantom skillset, so that their skillset is dependant on what they learn as a Squire. So, say you learn Heal (1st on the list in this patch), in battle, Mimes will be able to use Life Spirit.

Also, the levels I was thinking is 4 Squire, 2 Geomancer, and 4 Mediator.

[Lydyn]

Thanks to Asmo's wonderful discovery in chat, I'm thinking of adding the Tonberry King!

Tonberry King
HP Growth: 6
HP Multiplier: 220
MP Growth: 27
MP Multiplier: 1
Speed Growth: 80
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 5
PA Multiplier: 120
MA Growth: 2
MA Multiplier: 110
Zodiac Monster
Innate: Damage Split, Protect, Shell, Regen
Half: Fire, Lightning, Ice, Wind, Earth, Water
Absorb: Holy & Darkness
Immunities: Dead, Undead, Petrify, Invite, Darkness, Confusion, Silence, Blood Suck, Oil, Berserk, Chicken, Frog, Poison, Slow, Stop, Charm, Death Sentence

Tonberry King's Skills
• Straight Dash (seeing about changing it to 'Chef's Knife')
• Oink (seeing about changing it to 'Poke')
• Pooh (seeing about changing it to 'Rawr!')
• Nose Bracelet (or 'Mine!')
• Please Eat (or 'Level Up!')
• Despair 2 (leaving the name)

- - - - - -

Despair 2
• Forumla: Dmg_(TarCurHP-1) Hit_F(MA+255)%
• Range: 4
• Effect: 4
• Vertical: 4 (No vertical tolerance)
• Adds (seperatly): Darkness, Confusion, Silence, Blood Suck, Berserk, Chicken, Frog, Poison, Slow, Stop, Charm, Sleep, Don't Move, Don't Act, Death Sentence.

[Vanya]

Thanks to Asmo's wonderful discovery in chat, I'm thinking of adding the Tonberry King!

What discovery is that, please?