Some Skillset Problems

[FFaddic]

I've recently run into this website and have been using FFTPatcher for the past couple of days, but I've just run into a problem.  Whenever I give a job a different skillset (Example: Give Lancer All Magic or Squire Black Magic) what the person has learned is different than what is usable in battle.  I'll learn one or two skills, or even 0, but when I go into battle usually the entire skillset is available for use.  It doesn't matter if the skillset is set to Primary or Secondary either.  Anyway to fix this?  Am I doing something wrong?  Everything seems to work if I just add/change abilities in the existing skillset, but this makes it impossible to change Archer/Lancer/etc...

And btw, to the creator(s) of this website, those excel spreadsheets, and FFTPatcher (as well as all the other neat stuff available on here), I admire you greatly.  I only wish I knew half as much as you did to be able to help figure out more things to edit.  Unfortunately, I barely know how to hex edit text in SNES roms, heh.

[Vanya]

I think something similar is going on in the "Heavenly Chaos" thread in this same section. Maybe there's some info there.

[Lydyn]

Yeah, that's always going to happen from what I know, as I tried giving Bard & Dancer, Phantom & Chaos respectively. I ended up learning blind and shock (since I edited those skillsets) and in battle I would know four completely different skills from the list ... as far as I know, just stick with the original skillsets and change those.

There -is- a way to make it from messing up, however, you won't be able to customize the skillset. Basically, it's gameshark-forcing them a skillset in battle ... I suppose you can try and mess with it that way somehow? Combining both the patch changes and using gameshark codes. Of course, it ultimately depends on what you're actually trying to do with your patch.

[FFaddic]

I think something similar is going on in the "Heavenly Chaos" thread in this same section. Maybe there's some info there.

Ah, I knew I was reading that somewhere the other day.  I was starting to think I imagined it, thanks!

Yeah, that's always going to happen from what I know, as I tried giving Bard & Dancer, Phantom & Chaos respectively. I ended up learning blind and shock (since I edited those skillsets) and in battle I would know four completely different skills from the list ... as far as I know, just stick with the original skillsets and change those.

There -is- a way to make it from messing up, however, you won't be able to customize the skillset. Basically, it's gameshark-forcing them a skillset in battle ... I suppose you can try and mess with it that way somehow? Combining both the patch changes and using gameshark codes. Of course, it ultimately depends on what you're actually trying to do with your patch.

Trying to patch the game without using Gameshark, so unfortunately that's not an option for me.  I really wanted to edit classes like Archer and Lancer, but even changing their Action Menu to <default> or something other than Jump/Charge it still doesn't work.  Just end up as broken skills.  From what I can tell, it doesn't really matter what skill I change the default skillset to.  I changed Lancer to Basic Skill, as to keep it at something I know works properly, and it was still broken.  The odd thing is, the skills usable in battle are different between having the ability as primary or secondary.  I'm thinking there's a bit of program located somewhere that links the In Battle Action Menu with the Learned Abilities Menu in the Formation screen and it's not being changed just by changing the default skill set.  Oh well.  Thanks for the GS suggestion, maybe I'll mess around with that and see what exactly it changes that's different than changing the default skillset.

[Lydyn]

Here's a crazy idea... go under the skillset tab and just edit Jump and Charge to whatever you want. (Not meaning to sound mean, I'm just teasing a little. ^_^ )

[FFaddic]

That's the thing.  When you add skills to Jump, because there's no submenu when selecting jump, they don't do anything.  As far as charge, if you add skills to Charge, the character waits to attack as if he was Charging, but never does an attack.  Similar behavior is seen with a Geomancer as well.  It unfortunately makes a handful of classes pointless to edit their action abilities at this time.

[Lydyn]

Wow, you've got me confused and wondering now ... I have to go mess with the skillsets myself and see what's up.

[Lydyn]

Aha! I see what you're saying now... I think the problem is that you're trying to include both Jump (or charge) & non-Jump (or non-Charge) skills into the same skillset, when the editor isn't setup to change each individual action in the menu between Jump/Charge and Default. So, you're going to get broken skills unless you do one of two things ... either keep the Jump/Charge the same and/or add new skills that are based on Jump/Charge or redesign the entire skillset to not include either Jump or Charge skills.

This same rule applies also to Item, Elemental, Draw Out, Throw, Math Skill, & Sword Spirit. This may or may not apply to Monster skills, that I'm unsure of.

[Vanya]

From what I can tell all the monster skills are normal and should function properly as long as the skill set's action menu is set to default.

Also, it sucks about jump/charge/etc as it would be great to augment The Dragoon with new abilities from the later FFs.

[FFaddic]

Well what I was trying to do was make Lancer more of a Dragoon class.  I've never used Jump much, and as much as I would like have Jump as well as other skills I know that will never work.  Initially I was trying to add the Bracelets/Breaths to his skillset.  For the sake of simplicity, however, I'm doing some testing with just having Throw Stone in his skillset.

What I've done is removed every ability and just added Throw Stone.  This causes the Jump command to function normally, but limited to only one square forward.  I then changed the Action Menu of Jump to <default> thinking that because other classes that were normal were set to that it might change something.  No change.

[Lydyn]

So as it stands now ...

Action Menu
--------------
Jump: <Default>


Jump
------
Throw Stone
<Blank>
<Blank>
etc.

Lancer
--------
Jump

Right?

[FFaddic]

Pretty much.  All all he can do is jump.  Interestingly enough, if I switch the Action Menu to Item Inventory.  It lets me select Throw Stone, but it only has a range of one and the character tries to attack with a 00% change of hitting.

[Lydyn]

Uhhh... hm. I'm almost thinking there's so code somewhere or another that the editor.. can't edit right now - which does suck, 'cause I never really use jump either or really use the class.

[NeedsMoreNoise]

Here's a crazy idea... go under the skillset tab and just edit Jump and Charge to whatever you want. (Not meaning to sound mean, I'm just teasing a little. ^_^ )

For tranquility's sake, don't tease when you yourself asked not to recieve negative criticism, please.

[Lydyn]

... isn't that a bit off-topic?   Heh, like I said, I'm with you on this one - Lancers should be changed.

[Zozma]

i think if you want the lancer to have an open skill window so u can give other skills you wont be able to give him jump as part of it since the levels of jump, horizontal and vertical within the "jump" command are the very makeup of the single skill itself....

and as a lancer in a FF game this character really should have jump. it might take some work to convert that command into a single skill but it would be cool to see some more skills based off of the spear tho...

[Vanya]

It's the same with Mime, Onion Knight, etc. There has to be code somewhere that bypasses the normal menu system and forces them to act the ways they do. The only way to make them normal would be to find that code and stop it from affecting their respective classes.
The next thing would be to redirect those effects to activate within a menu instead of AS a menu.
All in all it will take a considerable amount of work just to figure out where the right blocks of code are located. But it would definitely open many new realms of possibility for FFT hacking.

[FFaddic]

Another thing I've noticed is that none of this occurs when adding a random ability to a character that does not have an ability (ex: Simon).  If I give him Chaos or Phantom, for example, everything works perfectly.  Strange...

[Vanya]

o.O

OK, that IS weird.

[Lydyn]

The only thing I can think of is... that even the basic jobs have some sort of code in them, though it's not as restrictive as Jump or Charge, so it allows you to use the other skillsets, but still screws'em up. While the units without any skillsets in the first place don't have those codes? *Shrug*