Heavenly Chaos

[Lydyn]

Now I'm posting that I edited the original. Changed the innate status, the requirements, equips, and switched the Protect/Shell from innate status effects to starting status effects, so they wear out ... especially in some of the tough Zodiac Battles (hopfully I made them worth wild for bosses).

[Asmo X]

I apologise if I sounded condescending but I don't think your idea is "bad" at all, just not my style. A lot of Japanese RPGs like to offer progressively better classes or objects until you reach some ultimate point. I thought thats what you were going for (which is fine, a lot of people appreciate that) and telling you to change this or that to make it "balanced" would kind of defeat the purpose. Also, you named the patch after the knights and that kind of says "hey look at these badasses".

At any rate, Im not sure what you're going for but it looks like you want them to be powerful classes but not stupidly so. One of the first things that happened with the other patch was Move+3 being taken out and I shudder to imagine these guys being able to have that at their disposal.

Also, I hope your first paragraph was directed solely at me. Vincent was very helpful.

[Lydyn]

You're pretty much on the dot, but I did try making the other classes useful too ... along with making the requirements high for the knights, I had hoped that it would promote one to use the other classes to their extent - at least earlier in the game.

As for the movement... that's actually a good idea, but .. what should I put there instead? Maybe none at all, or just repeatatives of other classes incase you didn't learn it from them (level move/jump +2 from thieves?).

And yeah, I'm not upset or anything for the most part... just wanted to let you guys know before I starting getting a bunch of blunt, negative feedback. I've been exposed to that sort of things for like 2-3 years ona role-play server I used to play on and they almost always focused on everything wrong and were very.. uh, unsensative about it, I guess. I also don't have the best way of saying things all the time, so.. bare with me on that subject. ^_^

[VincentCraven]

If I offended you, I apologize. I typically do not spend much time thinking when I do such impersonal communication. Now...

First off, remember that lower C values yield higher growth. Right now both your characters have below average speed growth. Average is 100, Ninja is 80, etc.

I suggested cutting the class requirements primarily to save you from spending time grinding in unrelated classes. See, once you've mastered Knight and Wizard there's really no reason to go back, right? In fact, you've even added skills from Black Magic IIRC. If you want more requirements, feel free to add back lv8 Squire and whatnot. Just remember you are going to have to go through all those classes, and w/o lots of random battles, lv8 Squire and lv8 Chemist takes a very long time.  I just figured you'd enjoy your game more if you didn't have to spend 20 battles mastering Squire and Chemist.

And most importantly, I certainly do not agree with many of your changes. In fact, I daresay I'd prefer to play vanilla FFT. I'm telling you this not to be mean, but to warn you that you needn't listen to a word of my suggestions. If I were you, I'd really pay attention to my words only when I tell you what you can't do and when I tell you you are going about your intentions the wrong way. For example, I assumed that giving your characters lower than average growths was a mistake, so I mentioned how the C values work.

And, if you haven't consulted the BMG before, it's extremely useful for knowing gameplay mechanics. It only goes so deep though
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197339/3876

[Lydyn]

Hehe, thanks. And ... yeah, I got the point that lower C/Growth numbers are better and I know very well that they're speed is below average. I used the little number program to show me the final stats (without armor & items) of the classes, so they're exactly where I want them.

I'm mostly concerned about balance issues and not so much.. well, whether people want to play it or not (since I figure some people will like it and others simply won't), so I'm taking those suggestions into account.

I did happen to lower the JP required for Job Levels... still deciding if this is a good or bad thing, but.. uh, because they're powerful, I want higher requirements. At least they're not nearly as bad as the Dark Knight in the remake.

Anyways! The readme file is updated now.

[VincentCraven]

You are concerned about balance issues? Then you may want to consider removing some of those innate abilities, especially Short Charge. It's possible to balance the classes w/o removing such skills, but it would take some testing b/c I don't really know much about balance with such skills. You have to honestly ask yourself whether you'd ever bother using a particular class and why.

Best thing to do is pick a class, and find the best combination. Once you've done that with every class on the job wheel, compare and make sure that one class can't do the other class's job better. A good example is Time Mage. Who'd want to be a Time Mage when Black Mage can do the job so much better?

[Lydyn]

Well, I don't want complete balance in that sense ... otherwise, what's the point in even having job requirements? And really, it's nearly impossible to bar anyone from making "broken" combination without installing that complete balance. I, personally, don't enjoy that ... I'd rather work up to better classes in the long run. *Shrug*

[Lydyn]

Okay, here's something interesting ... I left both Stasis Sword & Night Sword at 100% chance of learning, but in the beginning battle, both Agrias & Gafgarion are missing their sword skill abilities - comepltely. I can't imagine why though... anyone have any ideas?

Edit: Just a fun note, since squires were allowed to equip shields, I now have four squires are the beginning automatically with four shields! Ha! ^_^

[Zozma]

did any other skill in their set have 100%? they both sould barely have enough to learn their first skill, so if they learned a support/reaction/move that might be it.. if none of it was changed, thats kind of odd, unless you somehow made it where they had no initial jp?

[Lydyn]

Like I said, changed none of the events ... so they should've had enough JP. I did change around some of the percent learns, but it was to split, crush, and lightning stab ... only because I gave Meliadoul Lightning Stab in her boss version, so even if you have maintenance .. she can do something more useful than swing her sword at ya. Though Agrias didn't even know lightning stab, so... and maybe Gafgarion didn't have enough JP for Night Sword, since I jacked it up to 600... heh.

Also after looking... I don't ever know how you mess with their intial JP. >.<

[Xifanie]

Increase the job levels

[VincentCraven]

And if you want Gafgarion to start with Dark Sword, you should make the learn chance higher than 0%

[Lydyn]

Gafgarion with Dark Sword? Not that big of a deal for me ... it's actually already at 50%. I'll probably tone it down to 0% ... all it does is steal MP and chances are he wouldn't use it in the first place.

[Lydyn]

Rawr! Updated the Readme file to include all the changes. ^_^ Going through and testing it right now ... so far, the lower JP values to gain levels in classes is nice, though JP seems slightly harder to get. Might be because of my changes or.. just that I didn't have anyone learn Gained JP Up, lol.

Edit: I uploaded the file and it's read to download right here (board doesn't allow .fftpatch or .21 extentions). if anyone wants to try it out. ^_^

[Lydyn]

Look at the modified sprites! Nothing fancy, but I think it's definitely better than the originals for this patch anyways. The files are uploaded on the original post.

[VincentCraven]

Gafgarion with Dark Sword? Not that big of a deal for me ... it's actually already at 50%. I'll probably tone it down to 0% ... all it does is steal MP and chances are he wouldn't use it in the first place.

Oh yeah. He never learned it b/c the JP Cost was too high. My bad.

[FFaddic]

Those are some nice looking sprites... the Dancer especially.

[Lydyn]

Thanks. ^^ I wanted to change the Bard's hair to a nice color, but I couldn't find a nice color that matched the celestial yellow I gave him ... so I left it. I has thought of making his hair a silver-white, but it didn't mesh well.

[Vanya]

How about a soft blue?

[Lydyn]

Yeah... blue probably would fit the best, but I can't find one that meshes well with the celestial yellow. Part of it is that his little scarf thingy and the dirty blonde parts of his outfit also turn blue along with his hair... which isn't a problem really, but parts of her hands and face also change. =/

So, basically, I'd have to be in the mood to sit here and go sprite picture by sprite picture and change some of the colors so his hands & face don't end up a soft blue or silvery-white... or whatever.

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What do you guys think?