Xif's Fixes (ASM Hacks & Spreadsheets)

[Skip Sandwich]

The way fury works is that it causes brave to modify physical damage taken and dealt in the same way that faith affects magic damage, that is all. All other aspects of brave, remain unchanged, what i'm curious about is how fury works with damage formulas that already use brave as part of the equation, is brave computed twice? once for the base damage and once as a comparison between the user and the target to determine final damage before compatibilitiy?

[Gamesoul Master]

So... Fury replaces Brave. Alright, that works... thanks

For it to be acting in the same manner as Faith, Brave was still a much better name for it than Fury. I can understand wanting to change the name to distinguish it, but Fury sounds so much more extreme than Faith. Brave still may not be the best name for it, but at least it's sounds to be about the same level of... dedication, as Faith.

[Skip Sandwich]

I agree, I makes sense for a coward (low brave) to take less physical damge as they shy away from attacks, at the same time that thier avoidance hinders thier own efforts to land a solid blow, and vice versa.

[LastingDawn]

Well Fury is a nice synonym, simply because, the higher it is, the more you are hurt, it shows the lack of discipline as your Fury climbs, you begin to care nothing for defense only trying to kill the opponent in front of you.

[Skip Sandwich]

They both work, but I think Brave works better, seeing as the stat is mostly static, and something inherent to the character rather then class or level, much like zodiac alignment. Braver characters take more risks, while Cowards remain cautious, those of neutral bravery are balanced between the two extremes.

If it could be made so that fury was a seperate, dynamic stat that flucuated during battle (like, having an ally die or go into critical gives a bonus to your fury based on your zodiac compatibility with that character, and you also gain fury when you go into critical, but lose fury when you die, and when an enemy dies, again based on zodiac compatibility) then fury would work better, but as it is, I prefer keeping it as Brave.
:EDIT: oh, and if a dynamic fury system were to be introduced, then the berserk status should be changed to act like the Faith status, only for fury, it would also wear off after time like the Faith status does. In fact, just with a static Brave modifies all physical damage system, then having Berserk become the Faith for physical and Defending or something becoming the Innocent for physical would be pretty cool.

[VincentCraven]

I'm also a tad confused about this Fury thing. Some posts seem to basically state that the way the game uses Brave has been completely changed, and the name of it was changed from Brave to Fury. But statements like "it was added to make low brave useful" make it sound like Fury is something added in *addition* to brave.

Sorry for my poor choice of words when explaining it.

[Gamesoul Master]

Exactly. And while I do see how Fury could work well, Fury is *not* a static type of status.

A couple thoughts on what sound better (I do realize it's not open for suggestions specifically, but it's worth a try... lol).
-- Valor: Has a more static sound to it, though it too doesn't *quite* take into account more damage being taken
-- Guts: I really think this is a good one, and is only hampered by the special Squires (foolishly IMO) having a skillset of the same name. I would definitely consider changing the skillset name (since it doesn't even fit) to make this one work.
-- Might: Has a good feeling to it (and very physical-sounding), and a person with great might seems very likely to take more damage as they are swinging harder and are not quite as capable of defending themselves as a result.
-- Force: Sounds more physical than magical (but still could be both... :/), and has a good overall sound, though it doesn't sound as reckless as it should for what it'd be used for (lower defense).

That's all the decent ones I can think of at the moment. Sorry if it seems too forward, but I just wanted to put my thoughts out there.

Edit: Don't worry about it VC... As I kept reading the posts, I partially felt like I was just being dumb and not quite getting it... you didn't really explain it too poorly... just that people were giving somewhat conflicting statements on its use/purpose.

[Skip Sandwich]

Out of those, Guts is the only one I really agree with as a possible alternative, because I <3 Earthbound. But really, Brave I think is still the best choice overall.

[Gamesoul Master]

Well for the record, I was giving them as better alternatives to Fury, not Brave. I like Brave and Guts the most, but I wanted to offer a few that seemed better than Fury in case Guts was not well-liked by others.

[Xifanie]

because the name Brave doesn't make sense at all for the new damage calculations.

In any way you view it, Bravery is only a good trait. On the other hand Fury has its good and bad points, it's situational; just like Faith.

[Skip Sandwich]

bravery is a good trait, yes, but is not having a low brave score or 'lacking bravery' just another way of saying that the character is cowardly?

[Xifanie]

So what?

Cowardice is the result of an emotion of fear, you won't be more able to prevent taking full hits.
And being brave doesn't mean you want to take full hits either.

Fury = Offensive & not defensive
Brave isn't that at all.

[Vanya]

Ever heard the phrase "Only the brave die young" ?

Brave pple have a tendency to rush into things as much as berserk ppl. It's just for different reasons.

Like wise a cowardly person tends to think about defense more for self preservation as much as a calm warrior does in order to defeat his opponent.

It doesn't really matter what you call it as long as you can rationalize it. I'd keep brave because it's already an established trait in the Ivalice setting.

^_^

PS-
Zodiac, is my idea for Defend reducing damage instead of increasing evade possible?

[Xifanie]

People, stop asking if things are possible or not; it's obvious.

If hit % is calculated at the same time as damage, this should be pretty easy to do.

And if maybe if the Brave dies younger, perhaps it's because they have to protect the coward?

The coward relies on evasion, one hit will put them down for good. The Brave will stand still and continue to fight.

[Skip Sandwich]

yes, that's one way of looking at it, but hp is a very abstract system anyway, how else do you explain cutscenes of characters dying to wounds that would be very minor if they happened in-battle? Hp is not simply physical resilliannce, but the abstracted ability of the character to avoid fatal damage, only attacks that result in the character going into cricial or dead status actually cause harm.

a character of lower brave will be more cautious, he won't extend himself as much, and will take fewer risks, he won't be making any fast takedowns, but his extra effort toward self-preservation means that others will have a harder time breaking through his guard.

a character of higer brave is more confident, he attacks more readily, and with greater vigor, but, the same risk-taking qualities that make him a more dangerous warrior, mean that at any given moment, he's closer to reciving that one fatal blow then the character of lower brave.

[Vanya]

People, stop asking if things are possible or not; it's obvious.

  Sorry! I should have said difficult.

In that case, I'd like to formally request that ASM hack. It makes more sense for the ability to reduce damage like in every other FF & FF spin-off.

Do you think Defending with 'Defense Up' equipped would reduce damage too much if the effects stack?

If so, would it be useful to have the effect reduced so it cuts damage by say 30% instead of 50%?

[Skip Sandwich]

All this talk of fury and brave has got me thinking, a skill formla that acted like the faith-based magic formula, only based on target and caster brave, and dealing damage based off of PA would make for awesome physical skill options.

[Vanya]

I agree! ^_^
How dry I am!!!!

[Archael]

I have a request to see if someone could look at the Transparent status and see if they can remove it's permanent in-battle duration

I'm assuming you mean like if a character has it and does absolutely nothing (since it fades so damn easily), right? I would like to see that, if only for it to not be broken like that. And also, an AI recognition option wouldn't be bad to see (if it's even possible).

yes

I meant make it run out on it's own, like Haste or Protect or Shell run out on their own

Transparent lasts the entire fight assuming you never act

[The Damned]

yes

I meant make it run out on it's own, like Haste or Protect or Shell run out on their own

Transparent lasts the entire fight assuming you never act

Yeah. It doesn't seem like you can. Well testing Hunter out on...Thursday? Yes, Thursday. Well testing Hunter out on Thursday, I modified something to make it add Transparent, which subsequently never wore off despite the fact that I gave it at CT of 24 a while ago.

I'm beginning to hate Transparent.