Weapon/Item Editting

[karsten]

30/30
and 25/25 might be too much...

if you add a shield and abandon your can almost reach 90% evade always...
actually this depends on how we'll deal with shields too...

[Austin]

But you have to give up a hand, accessory slot, and reaction command slot to get to it. As long as you can't get that high evade for free it's not a problem imo.

The mantles look good, but I'd still rather have the dracula mantle as a regular mantle.

[Asmo X]

for 30 and 30 you have to be Undead. That's kind of a big deal.

Also there are plenty of "regular" mantles. Feather is still very good for just 5 points less in P.ev and 10 in M.ev. (Karsten it was 25 20. Sort of in keeping with the old Feather Mantle, just less cheap)

[VincentCraven]

Which reminds me (karsten's comment) shall we lower shield evasion too? Weapon evasion shouldn't be a problem, since to use it you must give up Abandon.

And you are right Asmo: I completely forgot that the stats of the first items (like Small Mantle) were not a problem.

[Asmo X]

Well one thing that would help with shields is getting the Escutcheon 2 the hell out of the game. Or at least change it to make it interesting rather than mega powerful.

I'm thinking shield evasion shouldn't go above 40% for either category. Aegis gets the 40% m.ev and I think the Genji shield should get the 40% p.ev. The Kaiser Plate and Venetian Shield should kind of be inverse to each other (Kaiser something like 25 30, Venetian 30 25). Also, can we have a shield that absorbs Bolt? We have fire and Ice, so it seems fair. I was thinking the Diamond Shield. Maybe don't worry about giving it a "half element" bonus or a weakness though.

Also, what about a Faith Shield? Might be an incentive for mages. And I was thinking about a shield that blocks all the death attacks (instant death, death sentence, undead, blood suck etc). Maybe lower Ev for that one (10 10 maybe?) and PA+1 or something? I think we need shields to start really competing with Two Swords.

Of course, it might be wise to finalise some kind of accessory list first since we're on it. Maybe if eveyone just posts their own accessory list it might speed up discussion.

[VincentCraven]

Good idea. I'll try to make a niche for each item and post my acc list soon. Anyone who does post a list, feel free to post crazy combinations and what not. Just remember: balance.

[karsten]

Good idea. I'll try to make a niche for each item and post my acc list soon. Anyone who does post a list, feel free to post crazy combinations and what not. Just remember: balance.

i quote. balance guys. and when creating items, always think of comboing them.

also we HAVE to weaken both shields and mantles... maybe granting to shield some benefical effects or absorbing some elements?

[trickstardude7]

how about a pretty good shield that makes you have starting  blood suck so  you have to put some actual use to holywater's!

[Asmo X]

I suggest that we'll probably achieve more if we just stick to accessories for now and then move on to shields when we have a list finalised

Ok so here's my new accessory list. I tried incorporating the suggestions everyone made (Vincent, I just turned the Elf Mantle back to "weak against fire". All elements would probably turn that mantle into a net liability).

(* = Items that have changed)

Gauntlets:
Power Wrist: PA+1, SP+1
Magic Gauntlet: MA+2
Bracer: PA+2*
Genji Gauntlet: PA+2, MA+2

Shoes:  
Germinas Boots: Mv+1, Jump+1*
Spike Boots: Jump+3*
Rubber shoes: Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots: Always: Float, Strengthen: Lightning*
Battle Boots: Mv+1, PA+1 *
Red Shoes: Mv+1 MA+1
Sprint Shoes: Speed+2 *

Rings:
Reflect Ring: Always: Reflect, MA+1*
Defense Ring: Cancel: Sleep, Death Sentence. Strenghten:Holy*
Magic Ring: Always: Faith. Cancels: Silence, Berserk*
Angel Ring: Cancel: Darkness, Dead. Initial: Reraise
Cursed Ring: Cancel: Invite. PA+1, MA+1, SP+1, Always: Undead

Armlets:
Diamond Armlet: Cancel: Slow. MA+1, PA+1
Jade Armlet: Cancel: Stop, Petrify, Ice*
N-Kai Armlet: Cancel: Charm, Confusion. Halves: Darkness
Defense Armlet: Cancel: Don't Move, Don't Act, fire *
108 Gems: Cancel: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison. Strengthen: Elements

Mantles:
Safe Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 0, Cancel: Crystal, Treasure
Leather Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 10
Wizard Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 15, MA+1
Elf Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 15, SP+1. Weak: Fire*
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 20*
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30 Always: Undead*
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 0, Initial: Transparent*

Perfumes:
Chantage: Initial: Reraise. Always: Regen*
Cherche: Always: Reflect, Always: Float*
Salty Rage: Always: Haste, Always: Berserk*
Setiemson: Always: Shell, PA+1*

Here's a question: Could we get away with MA+3 for the Magic Gauntlet or is that too much?

For some reason, those first 2 mantles are wicked hard to differentiate.

[Austin]

I think bracer should just be PA+2, and battle boots should just be mv+1. Otherwise that's quite a nice list, leave the magic gauntlet as is though.

[Asmo X]

Ok Bracer has been changed back. I still kind of like the idea of a physical-based item with innocent. Maybe an Always: Protect, Always: Innocent item?

Also I just have to put a case forward for the Battle Boots. If it's not convincing then I'll just change them back. Firstly, all the movement items (ones that offer jump, mv) give you really bad value per unit of progress (even going backwards in the case of the old Spike Boots) and there's really no reason not to consolidate them into one basic, early accessory that covers both types of movement.

Secondly, the new battle boots are balanced. They're the PA equivalent of the magic shoes which give comparatively less value for mv+1 since magic attackers have extreme reach with their spells. The new Battle Boots give physical attackers more value for an extra panel of movement but of course they don't have long reach so they're simply more agile melee fighters.

[Austin]

Maybe we could make the battle boots come out later then?  Since they're the first pair of boots I thought they should just have the basic +1mv, but if they come out when the red shoes do then they'd be fine.

Edit:Or maybe when the bracer starts being sold? I recall red shoes not being sold till chapter 4 which is kind of late.

[Asmo X]

Yeah i swapped the order of the boots around to reflect where I think they should be. Coming out with the Bracer would be ok.

Also I originally changed the name of Power Wrist to "Focus Wrist" to account for the new immunities. Any thoughts?

[karsten]

I suggest that we'll probably achieve more if we just stick to accessories for now and then move on to shields when we have a list finalised

Ok so here's my new accessory list. I tried incorporating the suggestions everyone made (Vincent, I just turned the Elf Mantle back to "weak against fire". All elements would probably turn that mantle into a net liability).

(* = Items that have changed)

Gauntlets:
Power Wrist: PA+1, cancel: Charm, Blind*
Magic Gauntlet: MA+2
Bracer: PA+2*
Genji Gauntlet: PA+2, MA+2

Shoes:  
Germinas Boots: Mv+1, Jump+3 *
Rubber shoes: Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots: Always: Float, Strengthen: Lightning*
Battle Boots: Mv+1, PA+1 *
Red Shoes: Mv+1 MA+1
Sprint Shoes: Speed+2 *
Spike boots: Mv+2*

Rings:
Reflect Ring: Always: Reflect, MA+1*
Defense Ring: Cancels: Sleep, Death Sentence Strenghten:Holy*
Magic Ring: Always: Faith Cancels: Silence, Berserk*
Angel Ring: Cancels: Darkness, Dead. Initial: Reraise
Cursed Ring: Cancels: Invite. PA+1, MA+1, SP+1, Always: Undead

Armlets:
Diamond Armlet: Cancels: Stop, Slow, immune: Haste. MA+1*
Jade Armlet: Cancels: Stop, Petrify, Ice*
N-Kai Armlet: Cancels: Charm, Confusion. Halves: Darkness
Defense Armlet: Cancels: Don't Move, Don't Act, fire *
108 Gems: Cancels: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison. Strengthen: Elements

Mantles:
Small Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 0
Leather Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 10
Wizard Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 15, MA+1
Elf Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 15, SP+1. Weak: Fire*
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 20*
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30 Always: Undead*
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 0, Initial: Transparent*

Perfumes:
Chantage: Initial: Reraise. Always: Regen*
Cherche: Always: Reflect, Always: Float*
Salty Rage: Always: Haste, Always: Berserk*
Setiemson: Always: Shell, PA+1*

Here's a question: Could we get away with MA+3 for the Magic Gauntlet or is that too much?

For some reason, those first 2 mantles are wicked hard to differentiate.

i think it's quite good. what do you think vincent?

by the way, i was considering the chance to give to some shields benefical effects... maybe protect, shell, regen might be candidates? this would make the equip shield more interesting and actually useful?

[Asmo X]

That's a good idea Karsten but we have to very careful about that. Since shields and accessories do not compete with each other for the same slot, you could potentially fashion a broken setup with heaps of buffs.

What I did do, however, is remove Protect from the Setiemson. I would consider it alright to put this on a shield if the shield offered little evasive protection. This means the only way to get the always: protect/shell combo would be to one-hand a weapon and give up the other slot to a shield with little evasive power. Much better than putting the effects into one broken perfume and still being able to two-sword or equip a Crystal Shield.

This of course, presumes the Robe of Lords is changed (please let it be so)

[Asmo X]

Ok guys, LastingDawn had a good idea for the Small Mantle that would be good as an early item for someone new to the game. Same stats (15 P.ev and 0 M.ev) and an immunity to Crystal and Treasure. I think it should be renamed to "Safe Mantle" as well. I've updated my list pending any negative feedback.

[Prinygod]

i glanced over you list and i have to ask, why does diamond armlet have immune haste. The rest of the bonuses do not make up for it making you immune to a beneficial status effect. Also why is vanish mantle worst than feather mantle. you only get one and the transparent only last till your first action. Finally do you mean cancel charm for cursed ring? after all no enemy ever uses invite, and it would only be useful on an enemy if they had maintenance, other wise you could just steal the ring and then invite

[Lydyn]

Originally the Feather Mantle was like 40% P.EV and 35% M.EV while the Vanish Mantle was just 35% P.EV ... so, you'd also have to ask the designers of the original game why they did it that way. I assume he's just following the original numbers and toning it down.

As for the Diamond Armlet, I personally left both PA +1 and MA +1, along with immunity to slow, stop, and haste.

Also, the Curse Ring is in it's original state. The designers of FFT put immunity to Invite. Why? Got me. Maybe it -is- better to switch it to charm...

[Austin]

Ok guys, LastingDawn had a good idea for the Small Mantle that would be good as an early item for someone new to the game. Same stats (15 P.ev and 0 M.ev) and an immunity to Crystal and Treasure. I think it should be renamed to "Safe Mantle" as well. I've updated my list pending any negative feedback.

That sounds like a cool idea but I think the small mantle needs to be rare if you do it. After all, enemies get them too and this could seriously save your ass in a battle since you don't have to worry about your super cool black mage dying after forgetting to save for a couple of hours (RIP Berkeley   ).

And I still don't care much for immune haste on diamond armlet, and thought it was fine with +1 PA and MA. (Didn't notice you changed it until now.)

[LastingDawn]

We also had the idea for the exact opposite, Asmo came up with a Robe that automatically turns whomever wears it into a crystal. This will speed up the process of Crystal Harvesting, whether that's a good thing or not, is of course open to debate. I believe he came up with the makeshift (never will fit, but sounds nice...) Vestment of Sacrifice, of course it will need to be made rare, so some Random NPC isn't automatically turned into a crystal by the unlucky random equipment.