Job & Skill Proposals/Idea Thread

[SilvasRuin]

I thought the FFV Necromancer was more like a Blue Mage.  (More specifically, the type that has to kill the monster to learn the ability.)

[jimmyjw88]

Alchemist and Necromancer, very interesting.

[Vanya]

I thought the FFV Necromancer was more like a Blue Mage.  (More specifically, the type that has to kill the monster to learn the ability.)

You are correct.  They also have an ability called Oath which is similar to the Call command from that game's Summoner. It calls a random summon out of Skeleton, Flamancer, Rajiformes, & Dragon Zombie.

[jimmyjw88]

Random summon, nice ^^
So, I guess in FFT, the Necromancer won't be able to summon units as the maximum limit is reached, right? Nine units, I believe.

[Wasabi]

Warriors are very nice indeed. Personally, I think they should have weapon ranged elemental and stat debuff abilities (whereas for Knights, the ranged -Ruin abilities seem more fitting), along with maybe one or two abilities that are slightly useful but not overpowering for them to be considered bottom tier (like Heal/Salve/First-Aid and maybe a 2-paneled ranged rez with a slightly nerfed accuracy, similar in 1.3 with Wish).

Hmm, Vanya, your latest comment about Defenders sounds pretty interesting. Equipment break abilities... Would you like to see them as a fusion of the vanilla FFT Knights and Meliadoul? Swordskills that deal damage and/or break equipment? I'd like to see that happen, actually. Maybe a step-up from the Knight's -Break abilities, in that they are weapon range, but can break equipment AS WELL AS deal damage just like with Meliadoul's Mighty Sword / Unyielding Blade in the WotL version (where, regardless if the the unit is armed with any equipment, her swordskills can still deal damage).

Necromancer is probably one of my favorite jobs in FFV Advance. It was a shame that once you've obtained and mastered the class, your party was already fully developed and/or mastered with the other jobs. In terms of FFT, they can be made to utilize plenty of wondrous abilities. However, on the topic of reviving a dead unit and making them undead would be a hard task imo. With FFTPatcher, the way the reviving formulas work is that only one status is enacted within the formula, and that status is the trigger for it. For revive abilities, that's "cancel: Dead," so it'll be difficult to remove the "Dead" status on a fallen unit and legitimately apply the Undead status at the same time without a means of, say, an ASM hack I believe. (Note: By difficult, I mean editing a temp ability that would mirror such a task like this without ASM hacking.)

But the standard fare of abilities for the Necromancer would be powerful single-target elemental spells that also deal abnormal statuses to the enemy. I hope this goes through. They also have innate: Undead, which if there is a means to manipulate equipment in such a way that helps to aid with the Undead status I'd like to see that happen. Necromancer + Chaos Orb in FFV Advance was pretty awesome.

And, well, the Midgar Sworm summon could be used for an "Oath"... *hint hint* A lot of great possibilities with the Necromancer job.

[SilvasRuin]

Hm... maybe borrowing some of the "Hell" spells or whatever from Crisis Core would work well with Necromancer.  The three standard elements with some nasty statuses mixed in.

[Wasabi]

Well, here's a small breakdown on what FFV Advance's Necromancer had for abilities:

Drain Touch - (self-explanatory)
Dark Haze - Causes old and confusion status for all enemies.
Deep Freeze - Freezes one target with otherworldly cold. Causes stop status.
Evil Mist - Sprays all enemies with a deadly poison. Also causes poison (status).
Meltdown - Burns target with searing heat. Causes sap status.
Hellwind - Rends all enemies with cursed winds. Causes petrification.
Chaos Drive - Strikes enemies with the lightning of hell. Causes paralysis.
Curse - Causes various status ailments.
Dark Flare - Damages all enemies with a burst of dark energy.
Doomsday - Forbidden Dark Art powerful enough to destroy everything in its path (basically, a touch stronger than Dark Flare with a slightly higher MP cost).

I believe Dark Haze and Curse were the only spells that didn't deal damage. And Drain Touch, Deep Freeze, Meltdown and Curse were single target spells.

[Vanya]

I'm not feeling the elemental skills for the warrior, Wasabi.
I'm thinking they should be more utilitarian with only physical attacks for their skills.
For example, stuff like, spin slash for when being gang raped, a very fast attack with low damage that never misses, an attack that misses often but hits real hard, perhaps a two-hit attack with a CT, things like that.

BTW, FFT seriously needs a custom formula with adjustable hit rate & weapon based damage.

My notion of defenders wouldn't be so much a Meliadoul fusion as a slow tank unit with the weapon ranged break skills and some good support abilities like phalanx which would give all surrounding units the defend status, or an earthquake ability that can disrupt charge, defend, & performing of surrounding units.

I really like the necromancy spells from FFV. There's room for another 6 skills, so the 4 summons and a couple undead related skills would fit. Now as for the raising undead thing, it would have to be a two stage process. One spell would add undead & charm to a dead unit and another would revive them. This would of course require that certain status effects be modified to allow stacking on dead & undead status. The revival spell could be a moderate raise spell with power somewhere between Raise and Araise. This would give them the advantage of being able to function as a partial support unit. There are also a variety of spells that can be made to only affect undead units using the Seal formula. Like a spell that has a high rate of charming undead.

Edit: Had an idea for the Alchemist. I call it 'Full Metal' Alchemist. It would use the Geomancy menu type and have custom attack spells with AOE and a couple of healing spells for support. This largely depends on weather the Geomancy set will allow AOE to be cast around a the target, of course.

[Wasabi]

I understand, Vanya. I was speaking in part for FFTA's equipment, such as light swords, blades and broadswords. Thinking that the Warrior would be a small fusion between the Hume Squire, Bangaa Warrior, Mog Knight and Hume Fighter, I just came up with this idea. And also, the Warrior in past traditions of the FF genre relied on elemental weapons to lead the battle, which in most cases were either Knightswords or not, so I thought a better method was just making them elemental attacks with a weapon range, that deal weapon damage.

However, wasn't there a glitch involving "Wild Shot" and "Aimed Blow" that was abusable in 1.3? I believe it may have been Wild Shot. To keep this from happening instead of a low accuracy / high attack power ability, why not one that deals a hard blow but injures the user as well? Spin slash may be a good addition as well, but it might overlap with the Monk's Spin Fist unless that is edited out for future reference on a player's patch. But, this ability can be fixed in having a better vertical and given the Minotaur's spinning attack effect to compensate (and maybe require a sword, who knows?; the Monk's Spin Fist can be made stronger to contrast).

I like your earthquake idea for the Defender. This could also be implemented as a monster skill for the Sacred/Sekret that can either only be learned upon hit, or is a shared skill amongst the Defender and monster. Also, if that is your flavor of the Defender, I feel that they should have an auto self targeting AOE 1 ability that damages surroundings with a chance of knockback, just like the very same ability that Defenders had in FFTA.

And one question about the Undead status: would there be a way remove the formua of randomly processing a crystal/treasure when a fallen undead unit has its CT go beyond the 0 point mark? That would destroy any need of having a second component to make them revive, and with the Undead/Charm ability, you can implement the Haste status to speed up their CT for a faster revival (just like in vanilla when a unit has an equipment with Always: Haste, they still retain the Haste status even when dead). Is that possible?

[jimmyjw88]

I like Warrior having physical attacks rather than elemental. Spin slash is a good skill using Spin Fist effect. Though, if possible, addition of a sword for the spinning effect would be awesome ^^
I definitely like the idea of earthquake for Defender.

[SilvasRuin]

This largely depends on weather the Geomancy set will allow AOE to be cast around a the target, of course.

I'm pretty sure it can be done.  I can't imagine why it couldn't be.

Spinfist directly uses the attacker's brawn.  Spin Slash would rely at least half on the weapon.

Physical and elemental aren't mutually exclusive, Jimmy.  Maybe I'm just being overly picking about the wording though.  It is clear that you just mean you are against them having elemental attacks.

[jimmyjw88]

Well, I'm not really liking the attacks like Fire Blade, Wind Slash, Ice Sheer, Thunder Strike, etc etc.; just a normal attack with elements. I mean, its not that I don't like elemental attacks but have some physicals too, non-element, just purely skills, Spin Slash for example. Some elemental attacks are good but not all, in my opinion though ^^

[DarkxFatal]

Uh..Whew. Lots of reading I did :/

Read the Blue Mage..The Lancer/Dragon Knight.. The Mystic Knight..And the somewhat intro of the Berserker?

Now for my ideas for the classes, and my own I suppose..

Dragon Knight- Like Jimmyjw88 said a page or so back, Freya's skills from FFIX would be pretty good here. Like Reis' Wind. On FFT it could affect the user and the four panels around the user (in a + shape :/), giving them the Regen status. Even Lancet would work somewhat, basically putting Drain and Aspel into one smaller ranged skill. Not too sure about the others..But the Breath/Bracelet skills could work fine. And maybe some of Reis' personal Dragon skills might fit in.. This is just my opinion :/

Berserker- I haven't read too much of this, but what you could do is have some Monk skills for the class. They could possibly use Axes..They could also have a skill that gives them Berserk and Haste/Berserk and Protect (kind of like Red XIII's Lunatic High limit in FFVII) except it just affects the user..

(My own) Mystic Knight- In my ISO/Hack/Patch, the Mystic Knight is pretty much a 'Red Mage' type. He has a few Black Magic spells, White Magic spells, Holy Sword skills, and Dark Sword skills. But I'm considering changing him..Since he's a bit overpowered :/

(My own) Sword Saint- What I like about this is that it's a 'Unique' class and the sprite is none other than Beatrix from FFIX (Thanks to whomever made the awesome sprite). I gave her Shock, Climhazzard, Blade Beam, The four Divine Knight skills, some White Mage spells and a few other skills.

(My own) Guardian- This class has the four Destroy Sword skills (Ruin), Protect/Shell 2, Wall, either Cure 3 or Cure 4, and Weapon Break, Helmet Break, and Armor Break..The class works out quite well, since I also added damage to the Ruin skills so they're not just 'Debuffs'

And those are my ideas.. Any opinions will help ^^;

[Vanya]

I like your idea for the Dragoon. It seems to have some skills that correlate with some of the dragon-type blue magicks in other FF games. It is mostly what I originally thought a Dragoon should be in FFT.

Your Mystic Knight seems enough like a Red Mage to just be called a Red Mage, and yes, a bit over powered.

You basically have Beatrix + Paladin for the Sword Saint, and Guardian is like an over powered Paladin.
They're both good ideas as special or guest units, but way too strong for generics.

[DarkxFatal]

Yeah thanks. ^^

I've been working on replacing the Geomancer with more of a 'Melee' type class, but I keep having problems with the 'Terrain Panels'..

For Example: Replacing Pitfall with a skill that forces the target into Defend status (I changed it so 'Defending' characters can't attack back, giving the skill a use) but at first it wouldn't work, but I'm going to try to change a few things then I'll ask for help :/

As for the Mystic Knight/Red Mage, I may make him into a sort of 'Beowulf' type class, except with ranged spells (Like Fire 3, hitting one panel) rather than Status skills. I'm probably going to keep the 'Dark Sword' skill though, so he can recover MP rather than using the somewhat hard to get Ethers (in the beginning).

Oh and as for the Necromancer idea above, I like all the different views, but they all seem to be the same. The class could have summon(Oath) spells like Midgar Zolom, and possibly even Lich and Cyclops (since they are kind of un-used and seem perfect for Necromancer) Hell, even a nerfed Zodiac would be possibly good for it. As for the other skills, Wasabi's ideas are pretty good.

(A side-note)
I made a generic 'Blue Mage' type class, where he(or she) has Monster Skills, but can learn them on hit rather than only by JP. I know the Blue Mage thing was pretty much talked over already, but doing it on hit (or having above average JP costs for the skills) sounds perfect and true to the Final Fantasy franchise  

[SilvasRuin]

Hm... yank one of the magic gun formulas and do some fiddling to create an Oath ability to cast Midgar Zolom, Lich, or Cyclops?  I'm not sure what all can be done with those formulas.

[DarkxFatal]

If you do that, you'll probably have to make it into a weapon. It may work as a spell/skill, but I'm not too sure. At the very least, you could do it for a weapon (like a Rod/Staff). Or maybe even a Book or Knife o_O

[Skip Sandwich]

well, to my understanding, since the spells called are dependent on the element the formula is assigned, even if the magic gun formula did work when not attached to a weapon, you'd still be limited to fire, ice, or thunder element. (most likely anyway, though I think I remember some talk about it defaulting to the ice spells if not one of those three). This may or may not interfere with the AI's use of the skill (since it may think that the spell is ice element, when the spells it calls are really dark element/non-elemental)

[DarkxFatal]

Ugh..I have a question :/

For my improved Mystic Knight, How do I make him do the little slash thing, like when Agrias does Stasis Sword, or when Beowolf does something from his skill set?

I have the skills, and they're not too overpowered (thank god), but all I want is for him to do the slash ._.

[Aquablack]

If you have the latest patcher it should be as simple as going to the animation tab and clicking the checkboxes of said skills so they're the same as one of the sword skills, it should say 07 00 00 on the right I think.