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Monsters: How should we set them up?

Started by FFMaster, August 14, 2010, 10:38:44 pm

The Damned

This reminds me of something I've yet to fully test: How does Talk Skill work with monsters anyway? I'm guessing they don't need Monster Talk, but it wouldn't first time I've been wrong about something I've yet to confirm.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

philsov

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[X] - 3 move monsters - but imo punt Monster Skill and make all the monsters 4 move monsters.  Attack-ish + 3 real moves.
[] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[X] - No.   Strongly in favor of shotgunning immunities onto monsters, however.  stats and class evasion covers the rest.

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3 - not 1.3 exactly, but a set but varied rxn is the way to go.
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[X] - No - if they deserve anything they can get it innate.

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes
[] - No
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Skip Sandwich

some preliminary monster ideas, sticking with 4 move monsters for now because thinking up unique monster abilities is difficult

Skeleton
Always: Undead
Absorb: Dark
Weak: Holy, Fire
Half: Ice, Wind
Immune: Don't Act, Don't Move, Death Sentence, Poison, Regen, Sleep
Reaction: HP Restore
Support: Defend UP
Move: Move Underwater

Knife Hand: basic attack, range 1v3, may inflict Don't Act

Burial: deals 40% of target hp damage, range 4, area 4, linear attack, dark element

Coffin Nail: deals PA/2 * PA damage, range 2, area 1v3, dark element, may inflict Don't Move

Lurk: self heal 25% hp and add Defending (death formula)

Ghost
Always: Undead
Initial: Transparent
Weak: Holy, Fire
Half: Ice
Cancel: Earth
Immune: Don't Act, Don't Move, Death Sentence, Poison, Regen, Sleep
Reaction: Sunken State
Support: Defend UP
Move: Teleport, Float

Throw Spirit: deals PA/2 * MA damage, range 4

Possession: give a single ally an extra turn, cannot target self, range 3

Scare: inflict Don't Move, Confusion or Sleep, range 4, area 0

Malevolence: sacrifice self to deal shock damage + 100% Charm, range 4, area 0
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

Archael

this is going to bring up a ton of balance considerations that you're gonna have to deal with on top of the current generic metagame which isn't balanced for 4v4 play, currently

IMO balance this shit for 4v4 perfectly and THEN think about making huge changes like these

PX_Timefordeath

Quote from: "Voldemort"this is going to bring up a ton of balance considerations that you're gonna have to deal with on top of the current generic metagame which isn't balanced for 4v4 play, currently

IMO balance this shit for 4v4 perfectly and THEN think about making huge changes like these

That is the plan Arch.

Archael


Shade

It's list of questions if they would add it and if they would add it what kind of direction it should go, when 4v4 is perfected, this doesn't mean that it comes right away.
Upupupu...

Zetsubou

Skip Sandwich

the proposed monsters I posted were more of a format check then anything, to see if we're all agreed yet, I should have been more clear on that when I posted them
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

The Damned

Speaking of the proposed monsters, it's rather eerie how similar we think alike at times....

But, yeah, more than anything this thread is just to get the preliminary decisions out of the way while we try to finish balancing the Humes.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Skip Sandwich

I just thought of something important to consider with allowing monsters, Panthers and the Blood Suck status. Is Blood Suck too powerful of a status ailment even at a 25% infection rate? Given that the only way humans have of guarding against it are 108 gems, and the only means of curing it is Holy Water, if one or both were not present on a team then even a single infection could spell doom.
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com


philsov

Quotethe only means of curing it is Holy Water, if one or both were not present on a team then even a single infection could spell doom.

Possibly.  But we can also easily expand esuna/remedy/stigma magic/etc to cancel it as well.  That aspect is curable.

However, I'm still against it (more than morbol status!) because even if cleansing is available a team can go from clearly ahead to completely defeated in a single round if the suckers keep attacking the person next on AT.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Skip Sandwich

August 31, 2010, 01:13:01 pm #32 Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 01:15:07 pm by Skip Sandwich
What if blood suck status no longer counted as Unable to fight? Then it would basically become a more potent version of confuse, but the AI will still attack the afflicted, and if an entire team gets infected, then they can keep fighting on (though the match might possibly devolve into a massive 8-way blood orgy)
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

philsov

....and we could also probably edit the blood suck ability to not inflict blood suck 100% of the time to avoid becoming a zombie swarm.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Skip Sandwich

We could even make the human version of blood suck not inflict status at all, so only vampires could infect people (at a 25% chance or less), and not infected humans
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

philsov

which in turn turns blood suck into a combination berserk/confusion that's easily cleansable.  This seems fine :)
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.