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Heisho [Posts: 34]
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  • [July 03, 2017, 05:30:02 AM]
How to make any other unit into guests units
« on: July 03, 2017, 05:30:02 AM »
Hello there.

First of all, if this doesn't belong here I'll glady remove it.

Now an explanation about this question. You can skip if you like.


So the question is if the units that join you since Gariland can stay as guest trough all the first chapter and then get removed when is finished.

Thanks to anybody that can shed some light on this.

Regards.
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Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 4200]
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  • [July 03, 2017, 07:45:48 AM]
Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2017, 07:45:48 AM »
I have an incomplete ASM hack for that, but even if it was completed, it would not be very practical. I started it 5 years ago and didn't really think of an elegant solution. The only part of my hack that is working is to allow generic guests into the party. No way to remove them.

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    Heisho [Posts: 34]
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    • [July 03, 2017, 04:30:40 PM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #2 on: July 03, 2017, 04:30:40 PM »
    I see.
    I was hoping that it had something to do with event programming. Maybe I might need to discard this.
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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 3778]
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    • [July 03, 2017, 05:33:12 PM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 05:33:12 PM »
    As long as you give them specific unit IDs and have them join as guest, you should be able to simply dismiss them via event command in whatever event you like.

    The main issue (As Xif just mentioned on IRC) is that, being as they are generic units you have no way to save the guest data after battles and then load it into other battles, unless they have unique IDs and you are manually placing them in all the story battles, in which case you are gonna have a bad time with the sprite limit... so it wouldn't really be very effective at achieving something that doesn't work very derp like

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    nyzer [Posts: 613]
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    • [July 03, 2017, 08:51:42 PM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #4 on: July 03, 2017, 08:51:42 PM »
    There are ways around that, such as allowing the player to field Guests in random battles or preventing Ch. 1 random battles entirely... but there is a huge gameplay problem that would come with discarding your entire party save Ramza after Ch. 1, which is losing progress on your entire party save Ramza after Ch. 1.

    Probably the only way that wouldn't suck for the player would be if they got three Generic Guests for all of Ch. 1, and had Rad/Lavian/Alicia somehow inherit their progress at the start of Ch. 2. Like, converting those guests into those three characters. Somehow.

    I mean, I get what you're saying, Heisho: Ramza's supposed to be wandering alone, ultimately joining a mercenary group with only two other members in it, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense if they've got a full party of their own already.

    But there's a reason for gameplay and story segregation; in this case, without it, the player would lose almost all their character progression from the extended prologue of the game.

    That's probably the biggest reason that FFT gives you three generics at the start of Ch. 2, then a chocobo shortly afterwards - I expect the devs initially considered the idea themselves, but discarded it for that very reason. It really wouldn't be enjoyable for players to just lose all that progress.
    Heisho [Posts: 34]
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    • [July 03, 2017, 09:38:08 PM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #5 on: July 03, 2017, 09:38:08 PM »
    Actually I was thinking about it and came with another work around. The generics will be with you until Igros Castle which was their main mission. After that a character might let Ramza know that he would be outnumbered before the mission in Dorter. Maybe Zalbag can give a hint about that and then you can recruit 2 soldiers at the barracks. Also if guests (Delita and Algus) can join random battles they can help too. I know they will not retain their progress on that fight but as the event battles continue they will be "upgraded" to keep an even fight and you can control them too.
    So maybe this way you can have 2 units loyal to you and in chapter 2 you will get Rad, who will be a special character on my project. Lavian and Alicia will stay at Orbonne and might rejoin you has guests in the fight against Izlude and Wiegraf.  Boko will join you a little bit later and now the formation will have 5 units.
    Maybe that way could work.

    I also understand what you say nyzer and you are right. But with this it will add a little more challenge and might be a little more close to the story.
    nyzer [Posts: 613]
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    • [July 03, 2017, 10:11:20 PM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #6 on: July 03, 2017, 10:11:20 PM »
    Eh... what would that really accomplish? Ramza would still be heading into Ch. 2 with allies that way, and you'd be removing Lavian and Alicia for no real reason.

    It also seems to make less sense, to me. Don't forget that Ramza's bumbling around for Ch. 1 isn't what his brothers wanted him to be doing. Zalbag was more sympathetic and didn't seem aware of the plot to have Elmdor killed off, but even he would've taken his knights back after Teta was kidnapped.

    If your angle is only that the Academy generics wouldn't have been loyal enough to follow Ramza after the end of Chapter 1... well, don't forget that Balbanes, Dycedarg, and Zalbag were pretty important nobles, and Ramza showed decent promise. There's a whole lot of reason to suck up to the Beoulve family at the start of Chapter 1: see Algus for proof of that.
    And those generics were present for everything Ramza was. They saw the horror of that little civil war. Nothing's stopping them from becoming disillusioned the same way he did. They may very well have preferred to keep following Ramza instead of getting caught in such a bloody, backstabbing mess.
    And, of course, don't forget that Ramza did rather well at earning loyalty. His party members by the end of the game include a Count, the princess' personal knights, multiple Church personnel, a prominent engineer from Goug, monsters, a robot, someone from another world, and a pair of assassins. Even Delita still works with him throughout the game, despite obvious problems if their association is ever discovered by the Church.

    To me, it just seems like you're looking to fix something that isn't broken with that plan.
    Heisho [Posts: 34]
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    • [July 03, 2017, 10:58:10 PM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #7 on: July 03, 2017, 10:58:10 PM »
    It will accomplish the porpouses of my project. Alicia an Lavian are useless generics. This way I can give them a new class but as a guest only and let them be more useful. Rad will accompany Ramza since is one of the new clases that needs to be in the field. Also this will allow to have more room for the roster since the PSX is a bit limited even with the rooster hack.
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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 3778]
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    • [July 04, 2017, 12:45:29 AM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #8 on: July 04, 2017, 12:45:29 AM »
    It will accomplish the porpouses of my project. Alicia an Lavian are useless generics. This way I can give them a new class but as a guest only and let them be more useful. Rad will accompany Ramza since is one of the new clases that needs to be in the field. Also this will allow to have more room for the roster since the PSX is a bit limited even with the rooster hack.

    Have you even learned to event yet?


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    Heisho [Posts: 34]
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    • [July 04, 2017, 03:32:07 AM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #9 on: July 04, 2017, 03:32:07 AM »
    Not yet. That is the reason Im asking all my questions first. To know if what I have in mind is doable. The rest, well, everybody has the right to have an opinion. And regarding tje rooster, making of fun of somebody who makes a grammar mistake while not writing in his mother language is not a nice gesture. At least I know I dont make fun of people trying to speak my language.
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    Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 4200]
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    • [July 04, 2017, 05:59:40 AM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #10 on: July 04, 2017, 05:59:40 AM »
    I'm not sure why you're taking it personally because that is not the intent. It was more of an opportunity to post something funny than to make fun of you. It's not like Elric has a Master's degree in English or anything; I know some mistakes he just keeps repeating over and over, but he has also been making an effort to get better; so have I. Both our typed English has gotten loads better thanks to my wife, who is exceedingly good at English. I've had people laugh at how I spell things or how I pronounce them and I don't take it personally; I just laugh along. I used to pronounce 3rd (third) as "turd"! If that's not funny, I don't know what is. Well, I can just blame Quebec's education system for that.

    If anything, I make fun of English for using 98% of the words they take from French (my native language), and change the definition drastically. For example, raisins in French are grapes, while in English, they are dried grapes. Just like an entrée in French is an appetizer, while in English it stands for the main course.

    Trust me, if anyone here was trying to make fun of you, they wouldn't go so lightly.

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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 3778]
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    • [July 04, 2017, 07:56:42 AM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #11 on: July 04, 2017, 07:56:42 AM »
    Not yet. That is the reason Im asking all my questions first. To know if what I have in mind is doable. The rest, well, everybody has the right to have an opinion. And regarding tje rooster, making of fun of somebody who makes a grammar mistake while not writing in his mother language is not a nice gesture. At least I know I dont make fun of people trying to speak my language.

    Anything is doable if you work at it long enough have enough dedication, but due to the track record of people on this site, I don't help anyone until they show they can at least do -something-

    And chill the f*** out, the rooster thing was a joke, christ. If I wanted to hurt your feelings, you'd know.

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    Heisho [Posts: 34]
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    • [July 04, 2017, 03:50:03 PM]
    Re: How to make any other unit into guests units
    « Reply #12 on: July 04, 2017, 03:50:03 PM »
    Well I'm willing to finish this project, I understand that you may have put your help and hopes on people who did nothing in end and I share yout thoughts, it would be frustrating. This thing that I'm doing I'm trying to keep it mainly basic with not too many changes so that way I can finish it and then make more adjustments like events and the like, otherwise it would be too much of work and might quit in the middle and that is not my intention, trust me.
    My questions are to know how far I can get because I think of this patch day and night and I've doing for the last 3 or 4 months. I'm not an spriter so many things that I wanted are going to stay on paper, but the rest I will put it on the patch. These ideas that I have expressed mean to create a more challenging game but not as hard as 1.3 (that's really insane). I know there have been like a thousand rebalances, but I'm willing to make my own point of view, otherwise I will not learn anything about the game I love. Also the reason I haven't post any work it's bacause I want to show it when is completed or at 85% at least.  Finally I not know nothing on programming and the like so yes, I'm going to keep asking questions about ASM, events and all that, I'do my best to understand events at the least so my questions will be diminishing as the time passes.

    About the rooster let it go. I was in a bad mood at the moment, in fact I think it was a good joke. I also troll people on a daily basis when I have the chance.

    I hope this can stay in the past.
    Cheers.
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