Final Fantasy Hacktics

Projects => Completed Patches => Journey of the Five Ch.1 => Topic started by: Ilmauriciano on March 02, 2014, 02:48:37 PM

Title: Suggestions
Post by: Ilmauriciano on March 02, 2014, 02:48:37 PM
Hello everyone and especially you developpers for making this awesome patch (which I came across randomly searching on FFT Insane)

I've played a little the game (up to date with patch 1.97e) and have little suggestions to give :

- In the list item menu, when you highlight a dual-wielding type weapon shows up '2 swords' (on the bottom right of the screen) and since you have renamed it by dual-weild (for ninjas if wiki is still up to date) wouldn't it be more accurate to change this ?
- I think Link need little more skills (I've tought about a skill named 'throw bomb' that deals AOE damage in a little area (2. Vertical 1), somehow like the ninja...) and maybe another song..

That's it for now, i'll update this post in case of I got new ideas.
Thanks again for reading and thanks for this awesome patch.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Angel on March 02, 2014, 06:53:14 PM
There is actually an effect for bomb throw intended for Link. I have no idea if it will be implemented or not, since I never saw Elric or Raven comment on it, however.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Drunkard on June 07, 2015, 07:53:05 AM
Whin I started this my first thought was Chrono from Chrono trigger would fit amazingly in this game, anyway to have him show up in a later chapter as a playable character? Magus would be a good villain as well.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Jumza on June 07, 2015, 02:00:08 PM
From the Q&A thread, Elric talking about why the characters where chosen and why some (like Marche, Alucard and Crono) were cut:

Quote
Crono is the only one that I actually had a full event written for, and I still do. It's still undecided whether or not he will ever make an
appearance in Jot5, though I would like to at least make his intro event and include it in the bonus scenes at some point, since it was
a pretty awesome idea. If I hadn't found out about the sprite limit when I did, and hadn't already thought up many ideas for what is now
the Five to fit together, Crono could very well have been one of them.

It seems the sprite limit is what ultimately stopped Crono from being an original member of the group, but it seems like Elric may or may not have plans to bring him around in the future.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on June 23, 2015, 12:14:11 AM
I've done some playing and I think I may have a few suggestions, please take them for what they are as these are only things I would like to suggest.

1. For weapons like the Masamune katana's that have a 2 panel attack range I think they should be their own weapon type as "Great Katana's" and be double handed as Great Katana's are akward and hard to balance, Yes Sephiroth was able to use his Masamune with ease, but not everyone could use it.

Or to cut out the middle man make one Masamune for Sephiroth and another for others to use.

2. I did some digging and saw Ramza's hidden skills as well as played around with Agrias' abilities a bit (even though shes a guest.) I like that they cost MP but the hit rates in general seem a bit off for me, I've been in battles where some of the Sword skills get blocked or miss at a high rate, In several battles Agrias had 80-99% hit rate with Stasis Sword and missed every time Maybe I'm just unlucky.

I do think Ramza's sword skill abilities that are hidden should be expanded upon, Like not have him on the same level as Orlandu (As that would make Ramza broken as all hell...) But even if he learned like  Night sword, Dark Sword, Stasis Sword, Ice wolf Bite, and one of the ruin Abilities (Speed, Power, Magic, Mind) just to showcase his willingness to learn new skills over time and hone his abilities Hes not as experienced as Orlandu or his brothers but hes far from being meek, as he can now take on both a support and leadership role.

3. Link does need more abilities to work with his character, don't get me wrong you have done a great job in creating him for Final Fantasy tactics and I like his Hero of time stat growth, but I think it needs maybe 1 or 2 more sword abilities and Bomb or other item abilities useable when Link is barehanded like boomerang, Longshot, Bombs, etc. I'm not asking for an Final Fantasy Tactics incarnation of Din's Fire, Naru's Love and ...oh crap I forgot the last one X_X... But right now hes still a solid character maybe he will get an upgrade in chapter 2 onwards?

Snake is fine as is although his Move! and Assassinate skills  have extremely low success rates I've see it at between  5-26% hit rate tops was 34% for either one to work, maybe a small boost would help a bit not much as if they hit 100% that's overpowered, but even a 5-10% boost wouldn't be so bad.

Dante's skills are really good and he can play a role your party is lacking should the need arise, I like looking at his abilities and thinking "do I need an attacker, defender or healer in this fight?" and look at Dante and think "what role do I want him to play?"

Cloud's skills are great and they do NOT need tweaking as now it makes you think "Okay do I want Cloud's limits to resolve faster with Short Charge, or hit more with concentrate?" I like the new sprite and I like that Finish Touch is no longer 100% Stop, death or Petrify as that made the game way too easy at times.

4. I noticed something and I was wondering do ALL classes have the innate Weapon guard? I noticed in many battles characters were blocking attacks with their weapons so I was curious about that, another thing I noticed was a few misnamed monsters, I had one battle in Barious Valley I fought 3 Mounted units on Chocobo's, A yellow red and black one and the Black one had the skills, name and stats of the Red Chocobo even having the Job name "Red Chocobo" but the portrait and sprite of the Black one and no longer flying just wanted to point that out.

5. FINALLY A BLUE AND RED MAGE IN FINAL FANTASY TACTICS!!!

Some of the animations need work for the red mage spells but other than that Great job.

my one complaint is that With the characters you have starting off with Generics don't seem to matter as much as they did back in the original game, they kinda feel like a hassle to raise and train while you work on The main 5, and your guests I do LOVE that you can put guests in random battles now, but now it seems that there's no real point in having Generic units anymore.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on June 23, 2015, 11:37:54 PM
I've done some playing and I think I may have a few suggestions, please take them for what they are as these are only things I would like to suggest.

1. For weapons like the Masamune katana's that have a 2 panel attack range I think they should be their own weapon type as "Great Katana's" and be double handed as Great Katana's are akward and hard to balance, Yes Sephiroth was able to use his Masamune with ease, but not everyone could use it.

Or to cut out the middle man make one Masamune for Sephiroth and another for others to use.

This is not within our limits sadly. We only have as many weapon types as vanilla. Not to mention we still have to work within Vanilla's item count.

Quote
2. I did some digging and saw Ramza's hidden skills as well as played around with Agrias' abilities a bit (even though shes a guest.) I like that they cost MP but the hit rates in general seem a bit off for me, I've been in battles where some of the Sword skills get blocked or miss at a high rate, In several battles Agrias had 80-99% hit rate with Stasis Sword and missed every time Maybe I'm just unlucky.

I do think Ramza's sword skill abilities that are hidden should be expanded upon, Like not have him on the same level as Orlandu (As that would make Ramza broken as all hell...) But even if he learned like  Night sword, Dark Sword, Stasis Sword, Ice wolf Bite, and one of the ruin Abilities (Speed, Power, Magic, Mind) just to showcase his willingness to learn new skills over time and hone his abilities Hes not as experienced as Orlandu or his brothers but hes far from being meek, as he can now take on both a support and leadership role.

I'd have to disagree on the portion about his brothers. His brothers didn't defeat the Lucavi and survive all that Ramza did by far. Ramza will recieve several new abilities. But they far from make him on par with someone as OP as Orlandu. Ramza's main function is as a Paladin.

Quote
3. Link does need more abilities to work with his character, don't get me wrong you have done a great job in creating him for Final Fantasy tactics and I like his Hero of time stat growth, but I think it needs maybe 1 or 2 more sword abilities and Bomb or other item abilities useable when Link is barehanded like boomerang, Longshot, Bombs, etc. I'm not asking for an Final Fantasy Tactics incarnation of Din's Fire, Naru's Love and ...oh crap I forgot the last one X_X... But right now hes still a solid character maybe he will get an upgrade in chapter 2 onwards?

Snake is fine as is although his Move! and Assassinate skills  have extremely low success rates I've see it at between  5-26% hit rate tops was 34% for either one to work, maybe a small boost would help a bit not much as if they hit 100% that's overpowered, but even a 5-10% boost wouldn't be so bad.

Dante's skills are really good and he can play a role your party is lacking should the need arise, I like looking at his abilities and thinking "do I need an attacker, defender or healer in this fight?" and look at Dante and think "what role do I want him to play?"


We are extremely limited on ability space. And at the same time, each member was balanced in a way to try to make them equally useful on all fronts. Bomb may be added at some point but I can't guarantee that. You must consider that if we don't have a way to make an ability work (There is no way to make a boomerang effect that would make sense) we can't do a lot with it.

As you mentioned with Dante, he was made to fill some of these gaps, as his character in DMC3 supports it. Link may not have gotten boomerang or bomb, however Dante makes up for this with several of his ranged abilities.

Quote
Cloud's skills are great and they do NOT need tweaking as now it makes you think "Okay do I want Cloud's limits to resolve faster with Short Charge, or hit more with concentrate?" I like the new sprite and I like that Finish Touch is no longer 100% Stop, death or Petrify as that made the game way too easy at times.

Finish touch was never 100% those things in Vanilla ;)

Quote
4. I noticed something and I was wondering do ALL classes have the innate Weapon guard? I noticed in many battles characters were blocking attacks with their weapons so I was curious about that, another thing I noticed was a few misnamed monsters, I had one battle in Barious Valley I fought 3 Mounted units on Chocobo's, A yellow red and black one and the Black one had the skills, name and stats of the Red Chocobo even having the Job name "Red Chocobo" but the portrait and sprite of the Black one and no longer flying just wanted to point that out.

Interesting... If you could PM me a list of these situations and in what battles they all occured in, I will make sure to address it before the re-release comes out.

Quote
5. FINALLY A BLUE AND RED MAGE IN FINAL FANTASY TACTICS!!!

Some of the animations need work for the red mage spells but other than that Great job.

 :mrgreen:

Quote
my one complaint is that With the characters you have starting off with Generics don't seem to matter as much as they did back in the original game, they kinda feel like a hassle to raise and train while you work on The main 5, and your guests I do LOVE that you can put guests in random battles now, but now it seems that there's no real point in having Generic units anymore.

Generic units are there for those that want to use them and as well as to enjoy all the beautiful new sprites that were made for Jot5. There is also the ability to use them for ability/crystal farming, (since you can get generics to join after certain battles). There was one guy here named Brittmarv who did a TON of different playthrus, including parties of 5 generic blue mages. This is a neat way to do Random battles to gain abilities without increasing your main 5's levels too much or feeling FORCED to use them. Among other things :)

I'm glad you've enjoyed the first Chapter so much and I thank you for taking the time to comment with your thoughts :) I also apologize that it took me a while to respond.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on June 24, 2015, 12:07:29 AM
This is not within our limits sadly. We only have as many weapon types as vanilla. Not to mention we still have to work within Vanilla's item count.

I'd have to disagree on the portion about his brothers. His brothers didn't defeat the Lucavi and survive all that Ramza did by far. Ramza will recieve several new abilities. But they far from make him on par with someone as OP as Orlandu. Ramza's main function is as a Paladin.

We are extremely limited on ability space. And at the same time, each member was balanced in a way to try to make them equally useful on all fronts. Bomb may be added at some point but I can't guarantee that. You must consider that if we don't have a way to make an ability work (There is no way to make a boomerang effect that would make sense) we can't do a lot with it.

As you mentioned with Dante, he was made to fill some of these gaps, as his character in DMC3 supports it. Link may not have gotten boomerang or bomb, however Dante makes up for this with several of his ranged abilities.

Finish touch was never 100% those things in Vanilla ;)

Interesting... If you could PM me a list of these situations and in what battles they all occured in, I will make sure to address it before the re-release comes out.

 :mrgreen:

Generic units are there for those that want to use them and as well as to enjoy all the beautiful new sprites that were made for Jot5. There is also the ability to use them for ability/crystal farming, (since you can get generics to join after certain battles). There was one guy here named Brittmarv who did a TON of different playthrus, including parties of 5 generic blue mages. This is a neat way to do Random battles to gain abilities without increasing your main 5's levels too much or feeling FORCED to use them. Among other things :)

I'm glad you've enjoyed the first Chapter so much and I thank you for taking the time to comment with your thoughts :) I also apologize that it took me a while to respond.

no worries, I have noticed a few things that I will PM you about.

But yeah space and memory limitations are a big issue, I wish we could expand the limits on it  :twisted:

but yeah I do like using generics as well and I think jp gains should be adjusted with job levels like in Vanilla mostly because 10 jp per action doesn't do you to well when you're trying to get a skill that's 500+ Jp to learn, still though at least now we can't spam accumulate for free exp and jp in one battle  :D
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Selius on June 24, 2015, 10:03:38 AM

I like his Hero of time stat growth

? You LIKE the fact that he's the slowest character in the game?

that was one of the first things i changed.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on June 24, 2015, 10:51:34 AM
? You LIKE the fact that he's the slowest character in the game?

that was one of the first things i changed.

I didn't mind Link's speed growth as it could easily be rectified by leveling him up as a Rogue, Ranger or Ninja Snake has the highest speed which makes sense as he is all about stealth and out maneuvering his enemies before they could target him, Link wasn't all that Agile in Ocarina of time on his own and needed special items to boost his agility like the hover boots, and in most other Legend of Zelda games he can't jump without the Roc's feather.

so making his growth with high attack medium Magic and low agility makes sense as Link was a swordsman and was limited in his acrobatics in his games Ocarina of Time especially.   
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on June 24, 2015, 12:29:20 PM
I didn't mind Link's speed growth as it could easily be rectified by leveling him up as a Rogue, Ranger or Ninja Snake has the highest speed which makes sense as he is all about stealth and out maneuvering his enemies before they could target him, Link wasn't all that Agile in Ocarina of time on his own and needed special items to boost his agility like the hover boots, and in most other Legend of Zelda games he can't jump without the Roc's feather.

so making his growth with high attack medium Magic and low agility makes sense as Link was a swordsman and was limited in his acrobatics in his games Ocarina of Time especially.

You hit the nail on the head

I'm actually very confused about Selius's comment since Link is the MVP for lots of people I've talked to (though mine is usually Dante or Snake, depending on the situation.)

Most people that had issues had them because when it comes to Special units (as opposed to Generics) they don't want to branch out of their main class right away. However, since these ARE you starting units, it should be done more as it is in Vanilla. It's cool to get all the unique abilities for the 5, but it's counter productive to their growth and overall usefulness as a unit.

Also, I should mention, the JP formula has been changed and will be in the re-release. The new formula is: Caster Level / 3 + 10
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Selius on June 24, 2015, 01:04:19 PM
you have that wrong. he has normal (50 pac) pa growth and the best ma growth (for males: 35 mac) in the game. (he still doesn't match ramza fyi)

ramza's base pa and ma in squire at level 99 if fftastic is to be believed : 16 PA, 15 MA
link's base pa and ma in baseclass at 99 if fftastic is to be believed: 15 pa, 14 ma

he ends up short on both counts, in a class with higher multipliers no less. with 3 freaking speed points less to boot.

this is why i modified his stat gains. he's terrible statistically. he's amazing skill wise, but stats wise he's the worst character in the game.

protip: cloud also has 150 spc, but has no good reason to level in his base class.


Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Selius on June 24, 2015, 01:10:41 PM

I'm actually very confused about Selius's comment since Link is the MVP for lots of people

but it's counter productive to their growth and overall usefulness as a unit.


except you gave almost all of their starting jobs some of the best stat growths in the game. most people are not so OCD about having the best possible stat gains like me, but my point remains.

i actually utilized level 1 hired generics to gain jp off of while keeping the 4 from leveling up so that all of their level ups could be done in their main class.

cloud is terrible. i'll say it again and again, 150 spc does not belong on anybody. not anybody. they would have to have extreme values of PA and MA to offset a 25% loss of utility.

you may not be balancing the game for 99 play, but unless you change the level cap that's what i base shit on
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on June 24, 2015, 01:27:03 PM
-I- didn't give them anything. RavenOfRazgriz did everything concerning jobs, abilities, battles, etc. So maybe you should take that up with him.

And that funny cuz most people here know I have absolutely horrible OCD, but I would never spent 99 levels in a base class when u could have them learn other abilities and (as I said before) be a more useful unit. What's fun about playing through the entire game with only 1 skillset? O_o. There is a lot more to strategy than growth, even I know that and I don't know shit about battle stuffs. I can tell you that I've never in any RPG even looked at growth because I enjoy playing games, not doing math, and yet I've never had an issue playing and beating any of them. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Selius on June 24, 2015, 01:32:19 PM
-I- didn't give them anything. RavenOfRazgriz did everything concerning jobs, abilities, battles, etc. So maybe you should take that up with him.

And that funny cuz most people here know I have absolutely horrible OCD, but I would never spent 99 levels in a base class when u could have them learn other abilities and (as I said before) be a more useful unit. What's fun about playing through the entire game with only 1 skillset? O_o. There is a lot more to strategy than growth, even I know that and I don't know shit about battle stuffs. I can tell you that I've never in any RPG even looked at growth because I enjoy playing games, not doing math, and yet I've never had an issue playing and beating any of them. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

i typed that quickly and should have said that they were given the stats they have.

i used level 1 generics to gain jp off of. they had skills of every job. throw rock at generic while whoever are in their main jobs kills off and incapacitates the enemies.

and did you really ask what's so fun about single job sets when half the challenge runs in FFT are SSC ? LOL
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Jumza on June 24, 2015, 03:48:53 PM
ramza's base pa and ma in squire at level 99 if fftastic is to be believed : 16 PA, 15 MA
link's base pa and ma in baseclass at 99 if fftastic is to be believed: 15 pa, 14 ma

I'm not sure FFTastic can be trusted. Are you sure it doesn't just have the old FFT jobs stats stored in the program and is growing him based off of that? I'm not sure that it's actually pulling the correct stats off of the save file you load up (I could definitely be wrong though).

except you gave almost all of their starting jobs some of the best stat growths in the game.

Be wary of this, it's a trap! Staying in the base jobs just makes everything much more grindy and difficult. To beat battles you need more diverse abilities than what the 5 have to offer originally. Grinding by getting spillover JP from generics works too but... It's so time consuming!

And yeah, SSC's can be fun, but no one starts with one. Everyone who plays FFT for the first time usually does a regular playthrough where they mix and match jobs, abilities and skillsets to find cool units. And of course, to each his own, some people just plain do not like doing those kinds of challenges, some do. You just have to deal with the fact that if you are giving yourself that challenge, you have to work with the cards dealt to you, IE the characters stats.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Selius on June 24, 2015, 04:22:06 PM
I'm not sure FFTastic can be trusted. Are you sure it doesn't just have the old FFT jobs stats stored in the program and is growing him based off of that? I'm not sure that it's actually pulling the correct stats off of the save file you load up (I could definitely be wrong though).


Oh no, I know it's doing that. I used the battle mechanics faq to pick jobs with the same growths to get the new raw values.

it's the fact that I don't know if the PA and MA multipliers are correct. I dont understand how the game comes to the conclusion "You have 14 PA" so I can't say it's correct with 100% certainty

and, again, I'm not using spillover jp. I'm hitting the generics. you get 1 exp but full jp value.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Jumza on June 24, 2015, 07:19:49 PM
Oh, well that sounds better but still, why not just branch out with your main team now? You have to start a new save file when the Chapter 1 re-release get's released anyway, why not just worry about grinding up your team to perfection then and experiment now?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on June 24, 2015, 07:32:36 PM
Yes I really did ask that, Selius. I don't give two shits about SCC's. I don't do challenge runs. Nor is this vanilla FFT. This was never made for that intention. Don't complain that the growth isn't good for a SCC when the game was never intended for that, because I don't care. :P

Also, I'm curious... SCC is Single Class Challenge unless I'm mistaken? How can you do a single class challenge while keeping them in their base class if all of their base classes are different? O_o idgi
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on June 24, 2015, 08:36:35 PM
You hit the nail on the head

I'm actually very confused about Selius's comment since Link is the MVP for lots of people I've talked to (though mine is usually Dante or Snake, depending on the situation.)

Most people that had issues had them because when it comes to Special units (as opposed to Generics) they don't want to branch out of their main class right away. However, since these ARE you starting units, it should be done more as it is in Vanilla. It's cool to get all the unique abilities for the 5, but it's counter productive to their growth and overall usefulness as a unit.

Also, I should mention, the JP formula has been changed and will be in the re-release. The new formula is: Caster Level / 3 + 10

Being a nerd has its perks XD

but yeah i'm still replaying the first chapter mostly to see what other things I can do or find xD
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on June 24, 2015, 09:59:22 PM
@RayKamiya

I also wanted to add that it appears we do have an ASM to make every unit have Innate Weapon Guard. I'll speak to Raven and find out why this was decided upon.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on June 24, 2015, 10:16:26 PM
@RayKamiya

I also wanted to add that it appears we do have an ASM to make every unit have Innate Weapon Guard. I'll speak to Raven and find out why this was decided upon.

No worries ^^ I'll just keep stabbing my enemies in the back  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Jumza on June 24, 2015, 10:19:11 PM
I also wanted to add that it appears we do have an ASM to make every unit have Innate Weapon Guard. I'll speak to Raven and find out why this was decided upon.

I mean, it makes sense doesn't it? If you have a sword you're probably going to try and block with it. I bet all weapons have probably had a significant decrease in evasion as a result anyway, to compensate for everyone having that ability.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on June 24, 2015, 11:25:35 PM
@RayKamiya

Weapon Guard is innate all units and is used as part of the game balance for equipment.  Its slot as a Reaction Command will be used in a future release for a new ability instead.  As Elric mentioned, ability space is precious, and this decision both gives us a new Reaction Command slot to make use of in the future and makes positioning yourself correctly as the player more important to winning each battle.

Link has a small moveset because the "essence" of Link is a versatile character whose full potential is brought forth via his equipment.  This is why he's the only character to learn Equip Change and why his base class can use almost any item in the game, affording him item combinations that otherwise can't be made, even when considering various "Equip:" Support Abilities.  Ability Space as Elric said is also an issue that has to be worked around so we try to give every character as few abilities as possible to do what they need to do.  This is also why Cloud doesn't retain the "Cherry Blossom" skill from the original Final Fantasy Tactics.  Dante has a wide move pool because it was the best way to convey his gameplay from Devil May Cry 3 into Final Fantasy Tactics, and it gave players who were too stubborn to change from the Five's base jobs enough options to shore up party weaknesses.  Obviously, since Link relies on equipment, his utility is partially restricted by the fact the game has only had one chapter released so far, but as more chapters get released, Link's unique traits in his main job will become more prevalent.

Some of Snake's abilities like Move! or Assassinate do have very low base hit rates, but this is due to their relative power in Snake's hands.  Move!, for example, allows the character whose already the fastest unit in the game to trade his turn to any other unit on the field, regardless of range, which helps units normally balanced by low Speed to get extra turns and wreak havoc.  Snake is a strategic character who allows you to either make high risk plays with abilities like Move! or Assassinate or use Hide and his high Movement range to manipulate the battlefield to your advantage.

@Selius

(http://i.gyazo.com/4caabc1e9d15e6af8aea17e4806711b8.png)

These are the stats of the Five when leveled from 1 to 99 in their base classes and without any influence from Multipliers.  Note that this does include the fact Ramza benefits from Female MA and MP, which is the main reason he appears superior to the other units, as the other members of the Five all use Male Growths. 

Dante at 100 Speed Growth sports 11 Speed, while at 150 Speed Growth, Link and Cloud only lose 2 Speed.  Human jobs have an SPM of either 90, 100, or 113, with the exception of Snake's Job, which has 120.  At 90 SPM and 113 SPM respectively, the speed differences become:

(http://i.gyazo.com/7d40dbee4b4e8e0a7ed07c77c6f12589.png)

(http://i.gyazo.com/23d2b59ee4dee8ba8041bc0484f47bd9.png)

Note that due to the nature of CT, Speed points are more important when Speed is lower than higher.  At their lowest (90 SPM), Cloud and Link get 80% of the turns of Dante, who has the "standard" Speed Growth.  At their highest (113 SPM), they get ~85% of the turns of Dante.  So no, they aren't penalized "25%".  Further, since you've at least got experience with things like SCC, it should be obvious that the game balance in Journey of the Five moves heavily away from the ability to oneshot or twoshot most units, even comparing the first chapter here to the first chapter of the original game.  This, and the higher prevalence of MP costs, mean the accelerated HP and MP Growth of Link and Cloud are important factors, both because of the increased utility of things like Move-HP UP / Move-MP UP / Regen / etc., and an enhanced ability to either spec themselves towards tanking or towards using stat-boosting equipment to further their offensive potential without risk of being quickly killed in later chapters where you'd both have a wide variety of equipment options and actually be Level 99.  It's also worth noting that in Journey of the Five, Haste only boosts Speed by 25%, which also lowers the importance of a difference between say, 8 and 10 Speed.  Once Hasted, a 8 Speed unit has 10 Speed while a 10 Speed unit has 12, a far smaller difference than the 12 and 15 Speed gaps that would occur in the base game, and would further be exacerbated by lots of Speed-boosting equipment that will be harder to come by in later Chapters of Journey of the Five.

The Five's base Jobs also don't contain the "best" stat growths, they merely contain more heavily slanted stat growths than the Generic Jobs which lean you toward what that character is known from in their main series.  Link comes out as a slightly bulkier Ramza with a bit less PA and MA, Dante comes out as a tank who can easily trade hits with anything, etc.  Generic Jobs have less exaggerated Growths, but there's nothing really "bad" about them as they follow the same basic rules as the Five's in terms of game balance.  They also become more focused as you get higher up the Job Tree.  For example, the Samurai has Growths very similar to the Duke, but has lower Speed Growth in trade for more HP and MP.

If you don't like the class, don't level up in it, but the disadvantage of 150 Speed Growth is far lower than you make it out to be, possibly because you're checking the stats via FFTastic and not a program like lvlsim or my Utilities Workbook and getting the wrong results, as FFTastic is only designed to be used with the base game.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on June 25, 2015, 12:19:29 AM
^^ Yeah, uh, all of that stuff ^^
                         (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/PIX/z_bong.gif)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Selius on June 25, 2015, 04:44:48 AM
but the disadvantage of 150 Speed Growth is far lower than you make it out to be

i disagree. and i'm not getting the wrong results btw. i'm using the battle mechanics guidebook to match up multipliers, and jobs that have the same growths. also just tried the levelsim program and im getting the same results i got earlier.

9/12 = 75%

9 speed resolves in 12 ticks
12 speed resolves in 9 ticks.

9 speed link from base class versus 12 speed in almost any other class. that's a 25% difference in turns.

im trying to argue that 150 speed growth shouldn't be on anybody. it's not worth taking such a huge penalty in turns for the other stats. max hp and mp are nice and all, but you have to get a turn to get the regen. 25% more turns is 25% more regen, movement, reliability,etc.

with maximum base hp/mp values: (the actual values don't modify the difference between 9 and 11 growth, it's pretty much a static ~18% increase. (this is more for cloud than link, really).

soldier versus geomancer growths. geo has 105 hpm, soldier has 110.

all with 110 hpm:
9 hpc: 380
11hpc: 322

9mpc: 194
11mpc:164

even in your best ideal setup:
11 speed resolves in 10 ticks.
14 speed resolves in 8 ticks. it's still an extra turn for every 4 actions. a 25% increase.

then if we haste them.
13 speed resolves in 8 ticks
17 speed resolves in 6 ticks. a 25% increase.

tl;dr: a 25% loss in turns aint worth it
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on June 25, 2015, 07:32:54 PM
I like how you ignore everything else that was said and still push on something that's only relevant in a SCC and in a Vanilla mod, of which Jot5 is not and does not support.  The base jobs are based on who they are in their own games.

The Five's base Jobs also don't contain the "best" stat growths, they merely contain more heavily slanted stat growths than the Generic Jobs which lean you toward what that character is known from in their main series.

TL;DR: This isn't going to change, branch out or suck it up, cupcake.

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/1ZV3D/arnold-stop-whining/image.png)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on June 25, 2015, 09:34:23 PM
is it just me or do people expect to raise characters as their base job from initial level to 99?

I mean I try and branch specials out in many jobs, example I made Malak in Vanilla a Ninja and made his Hell Knight class a pseudo assassin or Classic Ninja depending on how I felt like raising him.

Rafa  I mostly made a White Summoner or a "red mage" by having her as a Heaven Knight with Math skill but only Cure, Cure 2, Cure3, Raise, Raise 2, Esuna, Haste, Slow, Don't Move, Stop, Blind, Don't Act, Berserk, Petrify, Fire, Fire 2, Fire 3, Ice, Ice 2, Ice 3, Bolt, Bolt 2, Bolt 3, Poison learned.

Agrias I mixed up usually because I raise her to be a paladin so she gets mage heavy but doesn't lose out on PA (To fix that i raise her remaining levels as a Mime)

but yeah special characters should be branched out when you are developing them.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on June 28, 2015, 12:44:57 AM
It is hard to want to change the base classes especially on a first play through but ultimately necessary if just to make the game good. I think people who want to do a base class run through might want to change focus to a game like Vandal Hearts or Shining Force which are more linear.

It always pissed me off in Tactics that I could only use one reaction or support ability at a time. Imagine if we and the CPU could use two or three different ones at once. If the developers would have done that this game would be a million times better with almost infinite possibilities for combat. Its stupid how something so minor could completely change the game.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 15, 2015, 07:51:31 AM
Guys , there wll be a way to raise faith and brave like in FFT? i really don't get why it can't be raise permanent, specially since some classes come with very low brave/faith..

I mean i understand some reason why you would do that, but seriously i don't know you all but i wuold never use turn in a fight to raise brave and faith when i can do support spell or damage. plus to raise 10 faith/brave it doesnt change really much.

One of the part i liked a lot in FFT in general was that i had to raise brave faith or lower them based on how i wanted my characters.

But this is just my spculations, so can someone clear this doubt of mine? 

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 15, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
Brave/Faith alterations in Jot5 are not permanent.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 15, 2015, 03:58:03 PM
It's not permanent because it kind of ruins most of the point of Br/Fa in the first place. In vanilla, everyone just stacks 97 Br except your dedicated treasure finder, then you maximize your casters' Fa while minimizing it for most of your melee. Then the absurdly high Brave guarantees reaction abilities.

With it the way it is, you're coaxed towards some more diversity. For example, Snake is better suited to Jobs and Reactions that don't rely so much on Br/Fa. It makes Keen Senses much more useful for him than other characters.

It also makes the abilities that affect Br/Fa in combat useful for more than just optimizing your newest special character. If you want Cloud to shrug off magic damage, you have to hit him with the proper abilities during the fight instead of just chain Stopping an enemy while educating him about evolution for fifteen turns.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 15, 2015, 07:39:42 PM
man as i assume that all of you have played FFT A LOT, i assume that % for computer are much more meaning less, he doesn't get game over, and i can tell with absolutely NO DOUBT that the % to dodge and hit attack balance for the computer is totally weird, first of all the computer already know the damage he will do to your unit without checking so he doesn't really need to decide who to attack first second, it might be my impression? but after nearly 20 years that i keep playing this game i'm pretty sure computer counter way more then you do with the same brave, they break your equipe more with the same % , and evade more...  and again it can be my impression, since is just % but this happened always in all playthrough and for 18 years, so i really can't say having advantage by raising brave for counter ability is a bad things, it actually makes you lot less nervous. (or at least me XD)

Plus the computer doesn't really care when he got hit or not, i'm not telling this because i want the brave faith to be raise permanently, i respect your decision if that is what you decided, but except a couple of skill wich doesn't rely on brave ALL the other counters are brave % based.

Plus the fact that you can't raise faith permanently means that if you have a bad relationship with Signs'  for example Link with cloud, and you try to resurrect him or cast some other spell, well good luck, you'll need 5 turn to cast a protect or you see your char cristallized after you casted 5 resurrection that missed, this mean that you HAVE to bring someone with items in case cloud die, if you decided to have link priest.

In my eyes, this is pretty much a "play this way" way of see things, more then anithing, you don't like snake class? you want to make him another class? Sorry you can't ! cause he's brave is low, so forget to rely on counter ability, stick him all the game and all the classes with the same counter ability.

I don't know if you see my point...

Another reason is, you want to do it for balance? sorry but this doesn't make much sense either, since you have another 36234642624 ways, to make the game lot easier with combination of skill/classes. 

So is reaaally really up to who is playing to decide if they want an easier gameplay raising faith/brave lowering it, or not , don't you think?

Is like playing orlandu full speed equipe and strenght build, or "don't use orlandu" it's a choice which is up to the player, but if you take off the choice, in my point of view is like "you have to play this way, it doesn't really matter if you like it or not" XD

Still i repeat i completely respect your choice, i just wanted to give you my point of view ^^

really i don't want to look like the bad guy xD

P.S most of the time you're out numbered by enemies, and they got powered up with counter and skill (that previously they didn't have, which is perfect cause it's lot more fun this way..), so i really can't see any harm in letting people raise faith/brave if they want !
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Xifanie on September 15, 2015, 08:15:25 PM
I guess we could balance things by making every special character's main job squire.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 15, 2015, 08:23:40 PM
In my eyes, this is pretty much a "play this way" way of see things, more then anithing, you don't like snake class? you want to make him another class? Sorry you can't ! cause he's brave is low

Bullshit, I used Snake as a monk for a long time.

Another reason is, you want to do it for balance? sorry but this doesn't make much sense either, since you have another 36234642624 ways, to make the game lot easier with combination of skill/classes. 

Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, it means YOU don't like the way that bit of balancing was done. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions. We have plenty of tools on the site for which to make your own mod, which is what it sounds like you want to do at this point.

So is reaaally really up to who is playing to decide if they want an easier gameplay raising faith/brave lowering it, or not , don't you think?

Is like playing orlandu full speed equipe and strenght build, or "don't use orlandu" it's a choice which is up to the player, but if you take off the choice, in my point of view is like "you have to play this way, it doesn't really matter if you like it or not" XD

Again, this is opinion, I'm not putting an Orlandu unit in game, because I think it's cheap as fuck, it breaks the entire game. Jot5 isn't supposed to be PSX Easy, it's supposed to be SNES difficult, without reaching NES Hard.

P.S most of the time you're out numbered by enemies, and they got powered up with counter and skill (that previously they didn't have, which is perfect cause it's lot more fun this way..), so i really can't see any harm in letting people raise faith/brave if they want !

Again, you are welcome to make your own mod. However, Jot5 will no longer be editable in FFTP upon re-release, so it won't be the base for it.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on September 15, 2015, 10:20:55 PM
P.S most of the time you're out numbered by enemies, and they got powered up with counter and skill (that previously they didn't have, which is perfect cause it's lot more fun this way..), so i really can't see any harm in letting people raise faith/brave if they want !

well actually ALL monsters in Tactics had counter as a reaction, now they have changed and better reaction abilities to make it more challenging.

The only ones without counter were often the special monsters but again just about all of them had counter and reaction abilities all have the same formula to be set off Brave%
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on September 15, 2015, 11:02:10 PM
I guess we could balance things by making every special character's main job squire.

I find that the unique base classes bring a real charm to the game from the outset and I would hate to see it changed to squire.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 16, 2015, 05:43:10 AM
Quote
man as i assume that all of you have played FFT A LOT, i assume that % for computer are much more meaning less, he doesn't get game over, and i can tell with absolutely NO DOUBT that the % to dodge and hit attack balance for the computer is totally weird, first of all the computer already know the damage he will do to your unit without checking so he doesn't really need to decide who to attack first second, it might be my impression? but after nearly 20 years that i keep playing this game i'm pretty sure computer counter way more then you do with the same brave, they break your equipe more with the same % , and evade more...  and again it can be my impression, since is just % but this happened always in all playthrough and for 18 years, so i really can't say having advantage by raising brave for counter ability is a bad things, it actually makes you lot less nervous. (or at least me XD)

You think the computer has different odds from the player? In my experience with any FFT game, this simply isn't the case, save for enemies that are supposed to.

Quote
Plus the computer doesn't really care when he got hit or not, i'm not telling this because i want the brave faith to be raise permanently, i respect your decision if that is what you decided, but except a couple of skill wich doesn't rely on brave ALL the other counters are brave % based.

That's been the intent since the release of FFT. The problem is that they couldn't be bothered to find some way to make low Br useful in any way, so having permanent Br alterations ended up with everything with maxed out Br. The fact that four of The Five (and Agrias) come with high Br helps offset the issues you might otherwise have to deal with (lol randomized generics for half of FFT), and the last of The Five (Snake) comes from a game series that encourages stealth and tactical takedowns instead of blindly shooting things up. I'm not sure if you actually have any experience with MGS but one of the bonus objectives I've seen repeatedly in the series is to beat the entire game/mission without a Combat Alert. In short? It suits him.

Quote
Plus the fact that you can't raise faith permanently means that if you have a bad relationship with Signs'  for example Link with cloud, and you try to resurrect him or cast some other spell, well good luck, you'll need 5 turn to cast a protect or you see your char cristallized after you casted 5 resurrection that missed, this mean that you HAVE to bring someone with items in case cloud die, if you decided to have link priest.

For one, Ramza. For two, Invigorate. For three, monk. For four, Focus Bracers. So no, you definitely don't need to bring someone with Items in that scenario.

Quote
In my eyes, this is pretty much a "play this way" way of see things, more then anithing, you don't like snake class? you want to make him another class? Sorry you can't ! cause he's brave is low, so forget to rely on counter ability, stick him all the game and all the classes with the same counter ability.
Quote
Bullshit, I used Snake as a monk for a long time.

So did I. And I used him with Regenerator as his Reaction. "Not optimized for monk" doesn't mean "useless as monk".

Never mind the fact that there are plenty of jobs Snake's good at in Ch. 1, and would be good at in Ch. 2 (when the equipment for those jobs opens up). Knight/Ranger/Rogue would all work well with his base class, and Dragoon/Ninja would be even better. Not to mention - especially if you've had issues with keeping Cloud alive, why would you not have someone as a Knight with Invigorate and Sacrifice? There are many drawbacks to only having a single healer/rezzer on your field. What would you do if someone got a Paralyze off?

Quote
Another reason is, you want to do it for balance? sorry but this doesn't make much sense either, since you have another 36234642624 ways, to make the game lot easier with combination of skill/classes.

But it is the method that was chosen. And, I mean, you want to have one of the core balancing points removed from the game after it's already had years of work on it? That would be nowhere near as simple as you seem to think.

Quote
So is reaaally really up to who is playing to decide if they want an easier gameplay raising faith/brave lowering it, or not , don't you think?

The Grand Theft Auto approach of in-game cheats allowing mechanics to be bypassed is rarely used in most other games for a reason.

Quote
Is like playing orlandu full speed equipe and strenght build, or "don't use orlandu" it's a choice which is up to the player, but if you take off the choice, in my point of view is like "you have to play this way, it doesn't really matter if you like it or not" XD

Orlandu is a terrible example, because he is an absurdly broken character you get during the main storyline. Again, this is not a common tactic for most game developers. You won't find an "easy mode wreck face" option in most games, particularly ones like Jot5 which are designed to be difficult. This is the same reasoning behind the removal of Arithmetician. Facerolling through every encounter, using overpowered characters as crutches, is not enjoyable gameplay.

Quote
P.S most of the time you're out numbered by enemies, and they got powered up with counter and skill (that previously they didn't have, which is perfect cause it's lot more fun this way..), so i really can't see any harm in letting people raise faith/brave if they want!

But these enemies don't have anywhere near the versatility of the players. Once you get your Five away from base/Chemist jobs, and start gaining some JP, you can stomp all over most of your opponents. And even in just their base jobs alone, Snake can activate his stealth camouflage and block enemies' paths or just attempt to Assassinate them from stealth, then run five spots away if he misses; Ramza can throw down some unevadable AoE damage; Dante can regen up and hit enemies from the far side of a wall; Cloud can Immobilize and then Omnislash enemies; and Link can keep everyone's MP up in between the occasional Song of Time if enemies close in. These are all tactics and/or abilities that your enemies won't use and/or don't have access to.

Quote
I find that the unique base classes bring a real charm to the game from the outset and I would hate to see it changed to squire.

I've a strong feeling that she's being sarcastic :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 17, 2015, 09:34:47 AM
Elric, don't take it personal, i've said it was just my point of view, i would never change the patch myself , even if i was able to do it, there would be no point playing a patch if you modify if yourself no?

Aniway i read all the opinion of other people and i agree with some but i don't with others,

Mine were just small things that could happen, not that i have problem because of them !

I understand that you want to make the game harder, and in fact it's a lot better and more fun to play, but what i think is that it would be hard only at the start, because how nyzer said, after you unlock other classes/skills the game will be A LOT easier compared to the start.

And you guys really used snake as monk? off course you can do it, i didn't say it's impossible what i mean is since main damage of monk is based on str/brave , not having the chance to raise brave will keep his damage pretty low.

Another thing i think i've been mistaken... Yea snake is a stealth character and i used him exactly as he is supposed to be used.. but if you chance class and want to use other combination (without using his special skills) he's limited compared to others, lower damage and reaction %. And i don't think this is an opinion but more like a fact.

For one, Ramza. For two, Invigorate. For three, monk. For four, Focus Bracers. So no, you definitely don't need to bring someone with Items in that scenario.

Yea you have other ways to do so, but you will not likely be able to use resurrection on him since his low faith..
I agree that is off course wise to bring more then 1 char with a resurrection skill/spell, but i felt kinda limited by that, it's just my point of view as i keep saying, everyone got their own gameplay at the end no?

And again Elric, please don't take is personal, i already told you plenty of time this patch is the best i ever seen, i'm just stating what i think i could have be changed, that doesn't mean i don't want it the way it is.

And by changed i mean with minor effort, if someone even tell me "no since allowing brave faith will kill all the balance system we did" well i would understand my self that it's impossible to do so.

I'm not a scripter so i can't know how hard is it to do something and how much impact it has on the work you guys have to do to change it.
Mine are just opinions ^^

Than if you think they make sense you can decide on them, if for you they don't make sense, you can just say it without problem, i'm not here to flame or something.

Again, this is opinion, I'm not putting an Orlandu unit in game, because I think it's cheap as fuck, it breaks the entire game. Jot5 isn't supposed to be PSX Easy, it's supposed to be SNES difficult, without reaching NES Hard.

Elric this is Exactly what i said.. it would be easy to use him so i don't, but people that are not good as us, might want to use it cause it make things lot easier.

I said it only for the sake of "let more people play this awesome patch"

I didn't say because i use it.

But after reading that you made this game to be VERY difficult then i have nothing to add about balancing.
Isn't "balance" meant to be something able to do by everyone?

If only good player can do it , it's not balance animore but a hard version of it (is balanceed for experienced players)

And again is just my opinion not a critic, really.

I love it the way it is, i just didn't know changing brave faith back to normal would be an hard work and send off the balance you guys wanted to create.

P.S Snake as his base class is perfect, even the low faith brave, the point is only when/if you want to use him in other classes, he will be less strong the normal recruit char. Yea you can use him anyway as someone said already, but he will still be less good then any others since his low brave/faith.

And again i just want to give a point of view, it's not like "change this because is bad" XD don't misurunderstand me please.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 17, 2015, 01:21:06 PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0c/c2/ea/0cc2ea2ef6d67ed181f2f8c9765ee4b1.jpg)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on September 17, 2015, 04:56:32 PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0c/c2/ea/0cc2ea2ef6d67ed181f2f8c9765ee4b1.jpg)

re reading the replies...

yeah Towely said it best XD
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 17, 2015, 06:01:33 PM
i read them all, but i can understand you don't want to waste time to read mine, so it's ok ^^ as if i said nothing =)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on September 17, 2015, 07:15:06 PM
 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 17, 2015, 09:40:37 PM
I did read it all, I just thought it was resolved so I didn't see a reason to respond any other way.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 18, 2015, 04:06:05 AM
I don't think the Br/Fa issues that make certain classes less than optimal is a real problem for Snake. Chemist, Knight, Ranger, Rogue, Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, and Geomancer are all still present. I've also gone through multiple fights in which Snake has had more reaction procs than some of the rest of the Five (lookin' at YOU, Link).

And frankly, given Snake's skillset, you shouldn't NEED to use Full-Life on him. He can pop his stealth camo (by action or reaction), run away, and use Smoke Break if he really needs it. It's exactly the same as in MGS, too: Snake is NOT a front-line warrior.

Jot5 isn't SUPPOSED to have the Five basically act like malleable generics. Their skillsets and stats mean they've all got their own niche to fill. Snake as the speedy, high-move, stealth guy is supposed to be the support/harassment/assassination unit. Maybe he won't be as good of a Barehanded Wizard as Ramza could but it hardly makes him a bad unit.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 18, 2015, 08:50:08 AM
but i know what you mean, and i know it's perfectly fine.

as you said, if you use snake base skill set is exactly as you said since he's fast and has lot of ways to avoid death, my point is only when/if you want to change his class without using his skillset.

But even that , calling it Problem is exagerated, i just think it's a bit unfair for one of the main char to get weaker then a normal recruit if you don't use his own skillset.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 18, 2015, 01:26:33 PM
Except Snake's low Fa makes him ideal for going after enemy casters, so it doesn't make him "weak". Snake shrugs off magical attacks that leave Ramza dead on the floor. The only issue then is his low Br, which only impacts one Job and general reaction chance - which aren't nearly enough of a loss to outweigh the sheer strength of his base Job, which is not only a very speedy Job, but has a skillset full of instant, no-MP abilities. And given that there are plenty of jobs that work well with Snake's skillset and stats, as well as a reaction ability that prevents anyone from backstabbing him and doesn't work off Br...

Yeah, sure, it "limits" Snake to a minor extent, but in a way that prevents certain Reactions from just being the default choice for every single character, while also encouraging melee Jobs. You've said before that Invigorate is an overpowered ability, and it's no less potent in Snake's hands than in anyone else's. So why not let Snake be your Knight?

As for not using the base skillsets of the Five - the game's kinda designed around the expectation that you will, which is why Ramza has Ultima and Altima, Dante has several weapon choices that don't even come into play in Ch. 1, Link has arrow abilities that can put a severe strain on his mana during Ch. 1, and Cloud has Omnislash (which, while Unevadable, is often slow enough to not bother using).
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 21, 2015, 07:11:25 PM
never mentioned anything about the others, i love to play them all, and i love to play snake also, i was only saying what i think, i never sayd the game is not good because of that or there are mistakes in the patch.

Even know i'm still playing chapter one for the 5th time, and it will be 6th when the re relase come out.

I just thought that it would be even better with brave and faith back as they were, but as you guys told me , it would break the balance of the new skills to much, and it would take a lot of work to rebalance everything with max brave faith reason enough for me to understand, that's an impossible thing to do/ask.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on September 24, 2015, 12:31:39 AM
You know what is a huge mistake with this patch, NOT ENOUGH COW BELL!!!!!!  :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 24, 2015, 02:14:17 AM
/me has 2 Blue Oyster Cult tattooes.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on September 24, 2015, 05:35:51 PM
So as I was replaying this hack, a random thought entered my head...

Wouldn't it be funny if you could add Super Mario to the game as a Hidden character?

I think I'm overworked....
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RJ Cid on September 25, 2015, 12:08:16 AM
A jump move plus some reworked Monk abilities... I think he would be an interesting special character. However, his overall design is kinda goofy and might be outta place in this game, unless his sprite was created to more fit the mold of this universe.

Also consider that he's probably the cloaked person with the stones. I swear, I'm about 90% on this...

I do got a lot of love and respect for some Super Mario though, make no mistake. :cool:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 25, 2015, 01:55:32 AM
Also consider that he's probably the cloaked person with the stones. I swear, I'm about 90% on this...

You'd be better off trusting that 10% :P

Mario would never talk the way the Cloaked Stranger does.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on September 25, 2015, 10:25:27 AM
You'd be better off trusting that 10% :P

Mario would never talk the way the Cloaked Stranger does.

Mario barely talks as it is... I think Link has more lines of dialogue than Mario does....
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Jumza on September 25, 2015, 10:59:16 AM
"Let's eh-go!" "OH! Mama Mia!" "Wahoo!"
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on September 25, 2015, 04:00:18 PM
Put Mario in but just confine him to a bed like Link was in Super Mario RPG.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 25, 2015, 04:01:42 PM
I had considered that, or Samus. However, there isn't a lot of maps with beds that I could use in an event without it being completely O_o and out of context.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on September 25, 2015, 10:06:19 PM
Too bad you couldn't recreate the play battle with Gaz and his dolls in FFT that would have been cool to see xD
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 26, 2015, 10:02:48 AM
super mario really? XD

then put in the middle Fazz from hoshigami, at least is a tactics game XD
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Bounty Hunter Lani on September 26, 2015, 02:00:20 PM
Some Final Fantasy IX characters would fit better than half of these-- say, Zidane? Or... Bounty Hunter Lani?  ;)

I actually like having The Five and their rivals in the game as it is, I don't really care if there's anyone from another game or not. It is up to you guys, though  :D

Is it possible to make a certain ally in the final battle of Chapter 1 do more than walk 1 space? They have a long-range attack, but rarely ever use it.  I mean, they're almost as useful as Agrias, I suppose... :roll:
I have video evidence that the ally in the final battle of Chapter 1 is lazy until almost the final phase!  :shock:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 26, 2015, 02:59:05 PM
Some Final Fantasy IX characters would fit better than half of these-- say, Zidane? Or... Bounty Hunter Lani?  ;)

I actually like having The Five and their rivals in the game as it is, I don't really care if there's anyone from another game or not. It is up to you guys, though  :D

None of these characters are in the game.

Though, honestly, Geno was someone who was originally considered lol.

However, I think people will be pleased with the list of secret chars ;)

(and no, they are not any previously listed)

Is it possible to make a certain ally in the final battle of Chapter 1 do more than walk 1 space? They have a long-range attack, but rarely ever use it.  I mean, they're almost as useful as Agrias, I suppose... :roll:
I have video evidence that the ally in the final battle of Chapter 1 is lazy until almost the final phase!  :shock:

I already told you we have no control over the AI :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Bounty Hunter Lani on September 26, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
I have a feeling the one beneath the cloak is an entirely new character, and no matter how much guessing we do, we won't figure it out until the reveal!  :lol:
Either that, or it's Vergil... or Yuffie?  :?

If it's Yuffie, I will freak.  :shock:

Honestly, other than Easter Eggs, I can't think of any other suggestions I'd have, since you've already mentioned every single complaint I could've had  :mrgreen:

Keep up the spectacular work! Is that a valid suggestion?  :wark:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 26, 2015, 06:57:01 PM
I think Elric's already said that there won't be a major number of characters showing up from any one game - and that the three appearing from Legend of Zelda are the highest he's planned for. (There are two cameos from FF7 in addition to the actual two characters present, but given their current status in FF7 it's really doubtful that they'll ever get a bigger role than that.)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 26, 2015, 07:18:01 PM
(http://cdn.mysitemyway.com/etc-mysitemyway/icons/legacy-previews/icons-256/high-resolution-dark-blue-denim-jeans-icons-arrows/008772-high-resolution-dark-blue-denim-jeans-icon-arrows-hand-clear-pointer-up.png)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Bounty Hunter Lani on September 26, 2015, 09:30:58 PM
Thanks, I feel dumb now  :D

I didn't remember seeing that, so I apologize  :cry:

I'll wait for the next release quietly like a good little Lani now.  :wark: :wark:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Bonesy on September 27, 2015, 02:35:56 AM
brb making my own version of the hack where everyone's dogs
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 27, 2015, 02:50:16 AM
... Journey of the Furries? Or Yiff-fest Of The Five?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 27, 2015, 03:32:27 AM
brb making my own version of the hack where everyone's dogs

Re'release isn't open source, so, uh, good luck?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 30, 2015, 08:40:33 PM
what if the cloak man is Zalbaag!! LOL he sure have things to fix... even if he's supposed to be dead =(
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 30, 2015, 09:50:43 PM
Except it's not. Zalbag is dead as fuck :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on September 30, 2015, 10:08:30 PM
...Sheik...? Malon?...NAVI!!!
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 30, 2015, 10:13:25 PM
nope, nope, double nope
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Pandemoniu on September 30, 2015, 11:11:19 PM
Except it's not. Zalbag is dead as fuck :P

Speaking of, he was another character that I felt kinda got shorted. It wasn't as bad as Izlude (not even remotely), but I still felt it was all a bit abrupt.

I understand why it happened, but even still...
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 30, 2015, 11:33:15 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/Zal%20Bag.jpg)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Pandemoniu on September 30, 2015, 11:49:31 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/Zal%20Bag.jpg)

Dat cute pun! <3
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RayKamiya on October 01, 2015, 01:13:02 AM
Yeah Izlude and Zalbag really got shafted.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on October 01, 2015, 01:29:57 AM
 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on October 01, 2015, 01:34:52 AM
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/oIR6xeOffCEBa/200_s.gif)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RJ Cid on October 01, 2015, 01:42:35 AM
My vote for the cloaked individual is Samuel L. Jackson. Since the possibilities are seemingly limitless, he is the safest bet.

It would be cool to see King Orinas as a young man appearing in the game. (He is in the vanilla "Brave Story" under "Persons"). He would only be an adolescent, unless you consider that his profile was in the beginning of the game and that several years pass by the end of the story. He could be a young warrior hellbent on destroying Delita's rule.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on October 01, 2015, 01:56:22 AM
My vote for the cloaked individual is Samuel L. Jackson. Since the possibilities are seemingly limitless, he is the safest bet.

Lol, no.

It would be cool to see King Orinas as a young man appearing in the game. (He is in the vanilla "Brave Story" under "Persons"). He would only be an adolescent, unless you consider that his profile was in the beginning of the game and that several years pass by the end of the story. He could be a young warrior hellbent on destroying Delita's rule.

Vanilla takes place (IIRC) over a 2 year or so period, Ramza is 16 (?) when you start and ~18 by the end, depending on how much you moved around in game. Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 vanilla are exactly 1 year apart. Now take into account that Jot5 is only 1 more year after Vanilla. So you are only looking at about a 3 year difference in age.

Now also consider that in Vanilla, we are made very aware that Delita was a good king, and the land ended up thriving under him. He was a hero, not a villain that needs to be taken out.


Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: RJ Cid on October 01, 2015, 02:07:01 AM
Since his whereabouts are unknown, he could've gone all Guts about things and learned to fight from travelling marauders, making him the most bad-ass 8 year old around. As for the lack of motivation to dethrone a good king... "Only a fool searches for logic in the chambers of the human heart" -Ulysses Everett McGill

I'm curious if any Game of Thrones characters could be put on the table? Maybe a little John Snow/Hound/Kaleesi action? They can't really perform crazy sword abilities in the show (or the novels), but it leaves some creative freedom to surprise us if they make it into the game.

I'm also curious about Magic Pots. Any hope for them later on in the game?

Whatever your team decides, I trust it :cool:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on October 01, 2015, 02:23:49 AM
Since his whereabouts are unknown, he could've gone all Guts about things and learned to fight from travelling marauders, making him the most bad-ass 8 year old around. As for the lack of motivation to dethrone a good king... "Only a fool searches for logic in the chambers of the human heart" -Ulysses Everett McGill

I'm curious if any Game of Thrones characters could be put on the table? Maybe a little John Snow/Hound/Kaleesi action? They can't really perform crazy sword abilities in the show (or the novels), but it leaves some creative freedom to surprise us if they make it into the game.

I've never seen it, so it's not likely :P

I'm also curious about Magic Pots. Any hope for them later on in the game?

You mean those lil fuckers who always want me elixirs? They are too rare in FFT for that :P

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Bonesy on October 01, 2015, 02:29:28 AM
Eh, whoever Elric and co add I'm sure the game will still be good.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Pandemoniu on October 01, 2015, 02:53:44 AM
Yeah Izlude and Zalbag really got shafted.

Yeah. Those are a couple of things about Final Fantasy Tactics that I think about "what could have been?" when I look back on them.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Angel on October 01, 2015, 11:44:47 AM
For the 433rd time, all cameos are from characters who are in video games originally, with a very small portion of characters who appeared in a video game after being in other media. No Samuel L Jackson, no Game of Thrones, no, no no. The world doesn't work that way.

Magic Pots, however...
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: DaHammerCrush on October 01, 2015, 03:58:37 PM
And the cloaked stranger is.... The original Big Boss (AKA Snake's mentor from MGS3). Prolly not but since we're all just guessing that would be a cool one, and we have not seen other characters from that world yet soooooo....
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Bounty Hunter Lani on October 01, 2015, 04:12:13 PM
The cloaked individual is CLEARLY Ultros...  :mrgreen:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/Zal%20Bag.jpg)

 :shock:

Magic Pots, however...

Magic Pots confirmed?  :wark: :wark: :wark:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on October 01, 2015, 05:02:56 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on October 01, 2015, 05:07:05 PM
Quote
Magic Pots confirmed?

I think the only Magic Pot involved in Jot5 so far is what Elric takes in preparation to do some eventing.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on October 01, 2015, 07:08:08 PM
You all can continue to guess if you like, but it's really for your own fun and imagination. None of the like, 5 people who even know who the CS is will end up telling you if you are right or wrong (not that any guess has even been remotely close).

Fact of the matter is, it's the -Cloaked- stranger for a reason... You aren't -SUPPOSED- to know who it is yet :P and it was written in such a way that any guess is less than futile.

I'd honestly rather see other kinds of posts, however if speculation on characters is how you show how interested you are in Jot5, then by all means. Just know that we aren't going to tell you either way. :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on October 01, 2015, 07:19:47 PM
Quote
None of the like, 5 people who even know who the CS is will end up telling you if you are right or wrong

I would, but then I'm an evil liar and so I'd only say so to a guess that's obviously so far off base as to be impossible. No, no, yeah, it totally is Queklain/Cuchulainn. Definitely. Or Raiden. In fact everyone is Raiden, just because Elric loves him so much.  :P

If you guys wanna continue the speculation, though, you might wanna continue it in a new topic specifically about that. It's getting slightly out of hand in this one, heh.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 07, 2015, 06:19:55 PM
I have a couple suggestions to make but I just wanted to say how amazing chapter 1 came out!
I'm not gonna post everything about the game I liked because everything has already been said and you guys are busy working on progressing towards the future. I just found this mod last week and I couldn't believe how great it was. The sprites are beautifully done, the dialog is great, the battles are great and even challenging at times! I know you are tweaking the system a bit and when you release chapter 2 I will post a much more detailed response but I am going to list a few things I want to note and some things I think could be improved. But my list of suggestions is short and that is a great thing!

First ramza swearing... I'm not sure exactly how far after the lions war this is, but Ramza seems more mature in this game and hell after fighting that manipulative war I'd be swearing more too. I don't see a need to change it at all. I thought ramza's character was pretty close to his original and like I i was saying he's not that same naive academy student any more. At the least I don't see a need to go back and change the content you have already done as that would be a lot of work that would halt real progression.

Second I would like to see dante be able to use equip change. Dante, Snake, and Link are all able to switch their equipment in their original games and I think it would make more sense. Plus it would make it very useful for Dante and as of right now with links skills I don't see much point in him being able to switch weapons.

Which leads me to my next comment. I feel like besides light arrow( which seemed really powerful against ganondorf but he was probably weak to it ) Link seems to be the underachiever of the bunch. When I first got agrais I trained a bit and i left link out for quite a few battles. Yet Link was still the first to master all his skills. Why only the one sword skill for link? I'd like to see a couple more in there at least. He has charge attacks, jump attacks and etc. Maybe he learns some new songs while in this new world. That would be kind of neat as well he catches ramza playing a tune with his blade of grass and he plays it on his ocarina and it turns out to be some new useful song.

Also I second the notion to give some small game hints at least. If I would have killed a certain someone last I might have missed out on a certain skill for the time being anyways. It also be nice to put some hints in there if you plan on doing any hidden move find items. Just because the original had hidden stuff with no hints doesn't mean its right. Matter a fact from what I've seen so far I think this has the potential to surpass the original.

Alma....My how you've grown and become a badass. Love it!

If you gave me a choice on only having one extra character it would 100% be Agrias so glad you included that sexy holy knight =]

Mustadio and his new invention....Nice!

Sephiroth and ganondorf...Great job!

The new delita scene looks awesome I can't wait! I always liked when the two teamed up so this was a great idea!

*edit* I read the previous suggestions and it was very interesting to say the least =p. Glad you guys stick to your beliefs and not try to please everyone. Geno would have been a cool addition btw but I think your choices so far have been the best possible and I have no doubt I will be pleased with all future characters! I am still surprised to hear that most people found Link to be the most op. I still stick to my above suggestions with dante and link but they are simply my thoughts on the matter. After playing CH1 I can't imagine being disappointed with whatever direction you decide to go. Like you said you are not bound to their initial class but I always liked having the skill sets from the unique classes.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Angel on December 07, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
The reason Dante doesn't have Equip Change is simple: he can only switch weapons between levels in the series he comes from; it's being faithful to the source material. Not to mention that if he had Equip Change, he'd have quite an unfair advantage over the others.

In my playthroughs, Link has been second only to Snake for MVP, so it's probably a playstyle thing. Cloud's the one who's taking up the rear in my experience, but your mileage may vary. I'd definitely like to see Link get a bit more variety, and we've thrown some ideas around, ourselves, but we also still want to keep each of the five on a fairly even ground however we can, so it can be a tough trade off.

And hey, the original game didn't have any hints! Of course, the original game had a purchasable player's guide with all the secrets revealed, but that wasn't exactly free, now, was it? :p
(There was an unofficial wiki being kept up with new info as it was discovered by fans, including bits of officially confirmed data, but it'll need a fair bit of updating once the re-release is out...)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 07, 2015, 08:24:11 PM
AH! I forgot in DMC3 you could only switch styles at the start of a mission! DMC4 he could switch at any time...It would be nice to be able to do that but I gotta admit it would make dante incredibly op. My main suggestion was because based on originality but I had forgotten about DMC3.

Yeah its gotta be different play styles for link. Cloud was one of my MVP. I would still like to see Link get some more skills IF its possible. I noticed the post saying it was a problem with space but it was being considered. I hope its possible in the future but if not at least there is many other class options to make him useful.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on December 07, 2015, 09:20:14 PM
Cloud was definitely someone I had to put some extra effort into to figure out. And as I said before I like Link as an Archer/Mage but I would also like to see him get a sword skill or two just to make me want to use equip change more, maybe have that full life beam attack even if you cant make it look just right.

Something I would really like to see is the 5 getting new skills as chapters progress like the way Ramza got new abilities in the original game.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: alkarl on December 08, 2015, 06:37:28 AM
And hey, the original game didn't have any hints! Of course, the original game had a purchasable player's guide with all the secrets revealed, but that wasn't exactly free, now, was it? :p
(There was an unofficial wiki being kept up with new info as it was discovered by fans, including bits of officially confirmed data, but it'll need a fair bit of updating once the re-release is out...)

You better believe that it'll get updated right quick. I really enjoyed playing the death out of Ch 1 to help fill it out, not to mention excuses to play the game even more.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Davi o Rei on December 08, 2015, 01:11:51 PM
It's Luigi under that GREEN hood.
That'd be a twist to everyones guesses :D
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 22, 2015, 10:55:11 PM
I was reading some older posts because I was looking for a certain 2 somethings you can learn. ANYWAYS....

Playable zelda.... YES!!! even if just for a mark or something that would be badass. Maybe someone kidnaps her or something.

and I read something about the judge system in ffta. Yeah It was pretty stupid imo. It added a bit of a strategy twist and not that it hurt the gameplay or anything just....stupid lol. But the judges on the other hand were pretty awesome. The ones from ff12 were even better. They would make an awesome mark battle. I played ff12 but never played the international version. There is an option battle against all the judges and I've have seen many people rate it the hardest final fantasy battle. I was pretty pissed when I found out it never made it to the US because the option battles of ff were always my favorite part because some of them were down right insanely challenging(there is an unofficial translation to the iso but I just couldn't get back into the game again)

I know elric said something about not introducing more characters from the same game...but I would love to see tifa as a guest in a mark battle ( here is elric right now lol  :roll: ) But of course its your game/art but just throwing ideas out there. If you don't like tifa ( :cry: ) this idea could be used as anything really vergil as a mark battle or something along those lines.

And comon guys its obvious the CS is cap'n crunch  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on December 23, 2015, 02:51:55 AM
Man i would love to see Tifa too, the point is , that to add tifa in a mark or whatever, they would need to work on ALL her sprites, i think its a load of work , not worth for a single mark..
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on December 23, 2015, 03:19:39 AM
What do you mean all her sprites? Her sprites already exist. But no I doubt she will appear. It was originally scripted for her to be part of the later portion of the story but that was rewritten a looong time ago .
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 23, 2015, 03:52:10 AM
I'm sure a lot of work goes into most of then mark battles. Specially the new ones that are coming up. The two teasers i saw both had unique sprites (well not really but there was an empty space for a sprite). To me some of my favorite parts of the ff series games was the side quest stuff.

Shit if her sprite is done and no story perfect for a mark battle then! It'd be like some weird spirit thing goes into clouds mind and makes a whole apparition team of clouds friends and cloud goes into battle all alone or with ramza if there is sprite room. Cloud kicks everyone's ass except for tifa who is just too strong and owns everyone. Then the real battle begins and now that there is sprite room you assemble your team and fight tifa but she just destroys everything. Then sephiroth comes out of no where and stabs her in the back. Game over lol. Sorry I may have smoked too much  :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on December 23, 2015, 04:52:48 AM
There is no such thing as smoking too much.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on December 23, 2015, 04:43:15 PM
hahahahahaha , well then , if all the sprites are there, there is one reason more to add character as post game content u_u

Kinda like Disgaea if you guys know the game.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Jumza on December 23, 2015, 06:09:57 PM
Even if sprites aren't a problem sometimes there isn't enough space :(
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 23, 2015, 07:02:00 PM
@ elric Ha you got that right  :shock:

As far as space goes, totally understandable I'm just throwing ideas out. Maybe you guys like em, maybe you hate em, or maybe it helps you think of something else. Either way

Just a thought too.... If you guys did decide to do post game content doing it on its own disk(iso) would probably be the way to go. Or at least the final chapter + post game on its own disk. I'm not a programmer or anything but I would assume that would give you tons of room to do what you want as you could delete the events/sprite or other data from the other chapters. But I'm sure you guys would/have figured that out anyways and i know you were talking about spreading it out over a couple disks anyways.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on December 23, 2015, 07:02:21 PM
Sprites may exist, but the space for those sprites (let alone the abilities to go with them) do not.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 23, 2015, 07:17:12 PM
You musta posted that while I was posting mine lol. Thats one thing I forgot about was ability room. So would spreading the game out over disks help with that? I mean it should once certain special characters bite the dust in previous disks you could swap em out. I'm just curious I don't care if you guys don't include my favorite characters. If you included every ones favorite characters this game would just be a mess and would end up taking time away from you guys doing the stuff you wanted. I'd rather you guys keep the passion lit on the stuff you want. I'll keep posting ideas as they come to me but they are there simply to give you a new perspective so do anything you want with em.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on December 23, 2015, 10:18:17 PM
How about we kick it up a knotch and add sprite versions of Jay and his hetero life mate Silent Bob!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on December 23, 2015, 11:49:07 PM
That's ironic, my trainee told me yesterday that I remind him of Jay, lol
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on December 24, 2015, 12:37:17 AM
but it would be impossible , to just change the sprite in any way?

I mean you keep the skill set of the normal classes, not even special , but you can change sprite i mean..

i dunno if in the jot5 story you used up all the sprites and replaced them, that would be incredible, because FFT has a lot of different sprite between good and evil + monsters.

I would be very cool, if it was possible to hire a normal squire post game, and be able to choose like a dress room, between different sprite that already exist.

but off course if you replaced ALL the sprites already, then its impossible :*(

I remeber when i was very your i used to modify gameshark codes to find the most weird things in FFT, and there was a easy way to get a specific sprite in a specific slot, so if you get a squire in that stop he will automatically get that sprite when you hire him/her.

But i dunno how could that be done and if its possible to do it with hacking.
I guess you could do everything if it wasnt for the game limit itself. :/
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on December 24, 2015, 02:16:29 AM
That's ironic, my trainee told me yesterday that I remind him of Jay, lol

I grew up in Monmouth County, NJ and I know quite a few people who know Jay Mews and Kevin Smith. One girl I knew used to hang out with Jay when they lived in the Creek Road Apartments and had Kevin buy her lunch. The guy I supervise also ran into Kevin Smith and the advice he gave to him was he pointed to the booze my coworker was carrying and said "you don't need that, that shit will kill you, just smoke weed".  :lol:

I never met them but Silent Bob sounds like a real cool guy, Jay had a bunch of problems back then but is doing real well now but I have been to thier store in Red Bank and its nice where they sell mostly comics and mad expensive bust of Marvel and DC characters.

And for all you Clerks fans out there, NJ people are typically like they are portraid in the movie. Doing inane crap, asking stupid questions and generally not giving a shit.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on December 24, 2015, 05:40:16 PM
Quote
but it would be impossible , to just change the sprite in any way?

I mean you keep the skill set of the normal classes, not even special , but you can change sprite i mean..

Yes, it would be impossible. The special classes and sprites are tied together, and they're both near their limit. You can't put a custom sprite in for a standard job - characters like FFT Ch.1 Argath/Delita/Ramza are all special classes, just with Squire copied and pasted over them. Unique enemies like Wiegraf? Same thing, though they don't use the small number of special classes that also have Formation sprites.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on December 26, 2015, 05:22:56 AM
got it... mine was just a hopeless hope XD
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 26, 2015, 06:49:30 PM
Eh ya never know. We'll just have to wait and see what the devs decide to do with the game  ;) you may not get to see your favorite characters in there as it would be impossible to put everyones favorites in there but I got no doubt that this will be an epic mod full of goodies  :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on December 26, 2015, 09:00:09 PM
nyzer is part of the Dev team :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on December 28, 2015, 04:23:07 AM
Good to know, nice to meet you Nyzer! JOT5 is one awesome mod  :P can't wait to see what you guys do next!
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Xujints on February 10, 2016, 05:57:47 AM
I'm not sure if anyone had actually suggested this yet, or anything similar. I'm a writer and dabble in fanfiction, not often the most interesting subject, but this is the idea (which is based on a story I was working on before hearing about JotF). What if DmC Vergil stumbled across Ivalice and it's vast demonic power and when he hears about the heroes, or bumps into them, he hatches a scheme to knock them off using his rival, the DmC Dante. How? He kidnaps Kat and sends her to Ivalice and sets up a scene that gets the two Dante's to bump heads, fighting ensues.

It's a stupid idea, especially considering that not everyone likes DmC... I'm sorry, I like it, mostly because I never grew up with the classic, though I do appreciate his roots. It's funny how the new one has such a bad rep when it's the same old complaints that don't really hold up too well... But I digress.

This idea might actually work better then the other one I had where a Demon (Possibly Vergil) convinced Dante (classic) that his (DmC) was evil and stuff and that he needed to be stopped before he could crossover to that world and rule it too. But... Come to think of it, given his portrayal in JotF, classic Dante might actually want to fight, given he doesn't have nearly as much of a challenge these days. Meh...

What do you guys think, could the Reboot's Dante make an appearance somehow? (At least people might enjoy the fight, as it'd be an excuse for Classic to wind up winning because he's a PC)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on February 10, 2016, 06:41:53 AM
Well, the story of Jot5 already exists. I wrote it about 14 years ago or so when I was in highschool, though it has changed quite a bit and been added to, but the key points all do exist already.

Something like that could work as a string of marks, however we are limited on sprite space so I don't know that I'd use 2-4 sprites for 1 string of marks.

I thought DmC was okay for what it was, but to me it just didnt have the charm that the first and third games in the series had. Something about the first game just feels so good when you play it.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Xujints on February 10, 2016, 07:28:44 AM
Ah. I heard you had the idea for JotF for quite a while. 14 years is a long time... Who would have thought you'd be making a fantastic fan game? Us writers always have the strangest ideas, and hilariously enough, they work. Today's fanfiction could be tomorrows canon (In extreme cases... Which I actually have seen happen, twice. Not including stuff happening to my works.)

I myself have even managed to get in on some crazy stuff, I currently am writing scripts for a fanime... Speaking of shows, I was thinking of featuring JotF on a new one I was planning on making for the pilot. Basically I review fan games, rom hacks, fanfictions and the like that could use more coverage. From what I've seen so far in the game, and what could be, I can't resist doing something. I had other games in mind for it, but FFT was one of the first FF games I ever played and was my favorite back on the good old days of playstation... Just a shame I can't get JotF running at the moment like I could vanilla FFT, it stinks having ideas and never being able to implement them in anything. Anyway, there is probably a better place on the forum for talking about stuff like this, isn't there?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on February 10, 2016, 04:43:49 PM
Well, the story of Jot5 already exists. I wrote it about 14 years ago or so when I was in highschool, though it has changed quite a bit and been added to, but the key points all do exist already.

That's some good shit. I had a bunch of stories cooked up in my head when I was younger, mixing all kinds of video game worlds with characters from shows and stuff but I never wrote about any of it which I severely regret to this day. Its good to see the commitment and especially the balls to "nerd out" like you guys do. :P

My thing primarily used the world of Legend of Zelda: Link to the past as the setting and took themes like alternate worlds ala Warcraft to combine basically all great characters from all video games into one place. Then throw myself into it, suffice it to say it would have been a mess and very hard to keep in order while feeding my own ego lol.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Xujints on February 10, 2016, 06:48:31 PM
I spent most of last night mulling over the idea of DmC dante showing up in JotF and I think I came up with a brilliant solution. The first mark sets up the rumor that a white haired swordsman is stirring up trouble, upon investigating, guards show up confusing the classic for DmC. Fighting ensues. Upon victory, the party will receive a hint on how to start the next mark and agree to keep an eye out.

For the second, I came up with three scenarios, with two of them being quite similar. In the first, the run into a demon pretending to be the DmC Dante and Classic immediately sees through the ruse and strikes him down, and then the real DmC Dante shows up and before the situation can be resolved, more demons show up, forcing a three way fight, with the goal being to defeat all enemies.

In the second scenario, DmC Dante arrived first and beat his doppleganger. Then the party arrives to confront him as more demons appear. Again, three way fight.

In the third, both parties arrive at the same time and DmC Dante strikes down his copy. The two Dante's exchange some witty banter before more demons arrive and they get into a contest to see who can kill the most. The goal of this fight is to protect both Dantes.

No matter the scenario, the conflict will resolve and DmC Dante explains why he is in Ivalice (Either Kat botched a spell somehow, or he was fighting Vergil who sent him there using the Yamato when things wasn't going his way.) and that he needs to get back home. He starts to suspect that Vergil was behind the doppleganger and resolves to find him first. The two Dante's share a couple of jokes before they part ways, forming some kind of relationship in the process...

For the third Mark, the party arrives as the DmC Dante and Vergil are fighting. (I think it would be fitting at the Monastery where the stones are hidden) Ramza and Co step up to aid DmC Dante before Vergil can find the stones and gain increased power. With their combined effort, they manage to knock out Vergil and Classic Dante suggests using the Yamato to create a portal back home. While it is a good idea in theory, it only led back to DmC Dante's world. Classic shrugged it off saying it was worth a shot and gave the Yamato to DmC Dante who said that he'd take Vergil and keep an eye on him. As DmC Dante left, Classic commented that the kid could vary well grow up to a competent rival to him and would find some way to see how things go in a few years.

Someone jokes about how Dante is taking a liking to his reboot counterpart, which Dante denies... Mostly...

What do you think?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on February 10, 2016, 11:22:18 PM
I never realized there was a new dante and had to google search it lol  :oops: I'm a lil out of touch when it comes to newer games.

You have some good ideas. I personally liked the contest to see who could kill more and the one with vergil the best BUT if it came down to a choice I would much rather see Vergil make an appearance than Dante 2.0
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Xujints on February 10, 2016, 11:51:18 PM
Well, the reason I was talking about DmC Vergil is because of the fact that the Classic, could vary well be a chapter end boss... The biggest support to that idea is the fact that Ganon was one for Link. It'd stand to reason that Liquid Ocelot or some other crazy thing like that will also be one, and certainly Sephiroth, because... Sephiroth.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on February 11, 2016, 12:17:51 AM
While the idea is okay, there are some issues why this won't work.

First, as I mentioned, sprites. Sprites are very hard to come by lately, as is the space needed for them. And before I could ask any spriter to make something like that, I would need them to finish out what is left for the rest of the actual storyline first. Of which there is still a bit.
 
Another issue I see is the mention of the stones. Something like that would be out of the question for a mark, since, being this is a mod of FFT, we will likely use them as a story device at some point (be it big or small)

You mention Ganon being there as a boss for Link, and the fact that others may be as well, but this further pushes the idea away from being a mark, as marks are optional.

Again the idea isn't bad, but any ideas that actual require new sprites have a slim to none chance of being made. If i myself could sprite, it wouldn't be a problem, but I can't. So it would have to be someone else who can match Twinees quality (LOL) and even then, that doesn't solve the issue of needing more sprite space.

There are several other reasons why this won't work. However I cannot delve into that yet as Ch2 has not come out yet  :mrgreen:

I would much rather see Vergil make an appearance than Dante 2.0
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Xujints on February 11, 2016, 01:42:00 AM
:D Tis the thing, even good, or great ideas have their flaws. It takes a good writer or artist or etc. to point out flaws in other ideas, but it takes a great something to admit it in regards to their own works or themselves. Considering JotF is a hack, you have to abide by the rules that it has on it.

Sure, it'd be possible to change them, but then it wouldn't be FFT anymore. It might as well be a straight up fangame.

Regardless the idea, it does have to go through you anyway, so what you say goes. I'm just glad I was able to put the idea forward as I don't usually do this sort of thing. It's really not often I can try and help contribute to something that I like, ya know?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on February 11, 2016, 02:20:29 AM
Oh definately, and I thank you for the interest and this isn't to say you should stop. We actually have a mark ideas thread and will be using many of them in coming chapters, so I'd love to hear some more of your ideas!
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: DenisColli on July 21, 2016, 12:23:41 AM
What about a Dragoon class more FFTA/2, with fire breath and Anti-dragon powers?
That was, for me, one of the biggest add from this series... And Vieras too... Fran yumi yumi...
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on July 21, 2016, 04:37:15 AM
i very strongly dislike FFTA/2
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on July 22, 2016, 01:43:49 AM
Yeah, I couldn't stand 2, FFTA had a couple cool concepts, but that's about it for me. Another one of those games with serious potential gone wrong. Vieras were about the only good thing to come out of FFTA IMO. They had cool classes, cool skills, and they are kinda hot for bunny chicks  :oops: Definitely the OP class of the game. I thought Bangas were a disappointing race that could have been really cool. At least FFTA had a plot though I guess, compared to whatever the hell you want to call FFTA2.
 
What about a Dragoon class more FFTA/2, with fire breath and Anti-dragon powers?
That was, for me, one of the biggest add from this series... And Vieras too... Fran yumi yumi...

Dragoons are getting an upgrade once the re-release comes out.

http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=9930.msg215820#msg215820
Quote from: elric
Speaking of spears. Thanks to Xif's ARH2, Dragoon will have 3 new abilities you can learn in addition to just having Jump, which was also altered. Jump now has no vertical limit (because you fucking jump offscreen) and the existing jump skills add +1 to your jump range. Making every skill worth getting rather than just getting the highest rank right away. (I may have already mentioned this)

3 new skills that aren't jump  :mrgreen: I'm sure they'll be something cool, or at least useful. Gonna be nice since my Dante will most likely be a dragoon/tank/killing machine
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on July 22, 2016, 02:47:39 AM
Yeah, the FFTA series had a pile of wasted potential and awful ideas (the law system in general, as well as the lack of plot in FFTA2), but I don't outright hate it. The idea of using the FFTA/2 setup for Dragoons here was already something I brought up when I was going over the Jobs, don't worry :P

That said, I'm very much not a fan of the dragon-target-specific abilities in any of the FFT games. It's way too niche to serve any real use. How much use of Seal Evil did you ever get, for example? And there were way more targets for that.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on July 22, 2016, 12:55:47 PM
The only time I was more disappointed then when Tactics Advanced came out was when Suikoden 3 came out and you had to play thru the same scenario 3 times before the plot would advance.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on July 22, 2016, 01:25:33 PM
ive beaten Suikoden 3 a handful of times and I don't remember that happening at all lol. The scenarios are very different
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on July 23, 2016, 01:01:16 AM
I can't say i dislike  FFTA/2 simply because just the idea of that game, made my completely uninterested.... I mean FFT is the game i love most because of how serious it is..
And i heard somethings about FFTA that weren't not even close to be serious like FFT was.. plus i saw the graphic and it seemed a  bit different from FFT , reason why i never even tried to play it.. and i think i will keep on like this xD
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on July 23, 2016, 05:34:17 AM
FFTA's plot is decent, but it doesn't have anywhere near the depth that FFT does. It's aimed at a much younger audience. That said, the story is surprisingly gray for such a game; for a fair portion of the game, the protagonist's main purpose is to completely and utterly destroy the ideal fantasy world all his friends and family are utterly in love with, forcing them all back to the real world where they have to deal with dead family members, depression, genetic conditions, and severe disabilities. Unsurprisingly, they actively fight the protagonist on this.

Sadly, FFTA2 fails there, instead being a game of "how many sidequests can we jam in before we remember we haven't written a main plot yet and we only have about ten event slots left". :/
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: DenisColli on July 23, 2016, 01:54:02 PM
Elric... I share the same  preference to FFT over FFTA than you...
But we have to admit that the dragoon class had a sensitive upgrade...
A class o proud warriors who tame and heir the power of the Dragons unless of a simply "Monkey Knight".
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on July 23, 2016, 03:27:32 PM
Hey, FFTA did have some good ideas, no one's denying that.

It's just that it suffered from the devs failing to use a far larger amount of good ideas from the previous game in the series, and FFTA2 did the same thing but made it even worse.

So to people like Elric, who started with FFT, bringing up anything FFTA/2 did isn't a good way of convincing him of anything. For all the things they did get right compared to FFT, there are just far too many that they failed at.

It'd be like trying to bring up anything from Warlords of Draenor to convince me of a superior change it brought to World of Warcraft. There's just too much it failed at that previous expansions were easily able to manage - I associate that expansion with a complete and utter failure of development, with broken hopes that no one even tried to fix. Not that it didn't introduce some good features. Just that the bad far outweighs the good.

Besides, as I said, I already made sure to address your idea when we were adding in the new Dragoon skills anyway ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: somenoob on September 03, 2016, 06:02:22 AM
I strongly feels something when I played for the first time; The story of JOT5 is great, new range of tactics is also great, but difficulties spoils them. I suggest mods for creating easy mode for JOT5 and applying current difficulty on the second play-through after finishing the first play-through.

That'll make players focus on tasting new story lines first and then cultivate strategy for each mission you already scouted and knew on the first-playthrough.

Yeah, I know this project contains part of Chapters and players can't do the second-playthrough yet. The idea is insipred by the Vanilla system, well that's phone versions of THE WAR OF THE LIONS, that offers players on the second play-through to have almost all of the ultimate equipments at Poachers' Den for just $10 each. My suggestion for JOT5 is same but the opposite of that.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 03, 2016, 06:23:30 AM
If you even took the time to read around here, you'd know that both Easy Type and New Game+ are planned for Jot5 after Ch2 comes out.

More people are fine with the difficulty than those who are not. But again, if you were reading, you'd know about all the changes to the re-release and why it will be less/more difficult in different ways.

Take an hour or so and read through some of the threads before making suggestions that were likely already addressed.

Thanks.

PS: Mentioning WotL will usually result in most people on the team rolling their eyes and walking away ;) just an FYI
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 03, 2016, 06:25:05 AM
So an easy first playthrough with an automatically harder second one? I don't quite agree with that. That's more like artificially bloating the content of the game by making you do the same stuff twice over, just tuned higher.

If the difficulty is really giving you that much grief, I'd suggest using save state abuse as a crutch while you get used to the transition from the vanilla FFT playstyle, though it's not ideal... you're supposed to learn how to roll with the punches earlier on, and get used to the playstyle differences between vanilla FFT and Jot5. Jot5 puts a lot more emphasis on status effects and playing defensively than FFT "low level Archers and Knights in Ch. 4 storyline battles" ever did.

For example, Immobilize is ridiculously beneficial, especially given how many major Jot5 enemies are melee fighters. Focus Bangles block the Crystal status, meaning you don't have to rush to rez fallen units. Knights have easy access to Reraise. Regen is mad useful. These are all things you don't really see in vanilla FFT, because they aren't worth it there - but I promise you, they are here, and they're effects that can easily turn the tide of battle.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 03, 2016, 06:32:21 AM
So an easy first playthrough with an automatically harder second one? I don't quite agree with that. That's more like artificially bloating the content of the game by making you do the same stuff twice over, just tuned higher.
As it would negate a ton of what we've done, it won't happen anyway

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Plus, you can already drastically drop the difficulty of the game just by using save states midbattle. You could turn Snake into a forced one-shotting machine that way with Assassinate, give Link a forced 100% Slow chance on his Ice Arrow, never fall victim to a misstep or a lucky enemy crit... etc.
Or get a monk, priest or wizard. (Or a wizard with Monk or Priest secondary for best results)

Quote
If the difficulty is really giving you grief, I'd suggest using save states as a crutch while you get used to the transition from the vanilla FFT playstyle. Jot5 puts a lot more emphasis on status effects and playing defensively than FFT "low level Archers and Knights in Ch. 4 storyline battles" ever did.
I'd never recommend savestate abuse, it breeds false hope instead of training you how to actually play

Quote
For example, Immobilize is ridiculously beneficial, especially given how many major Jot5 enemies are melee fighters. Focus Bangles block the Crystal status, meaning you don't have to rush to rez fallen units. Knights have easy access to Reraise. Regen is mad useful. These are all things you don't really see in vanilla FFT, because they aren't worth it there - but I promise you, they are here, and they're effects that can easily turn the tide of battle.
These things ^
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: somenoob on September 03, 2016, 07:05:14 AM
For example, Immobilize is ridiculously beneficial, especially given how many major Jot5 enemies are melee fighters. Focus Bangles block the Crystal status, meaning you don't have to rush to rez fallen units. Knights have easy access to Reraise. Regen is mad useful. These are all things you don't really see in vanilla FFT, because they aren't worth it there - but I promise you, they are here, and they're effects that can easily turn the tide of battle.
I already understand the usefulness of 100% chance of krouds' immobilize ability and 100% chance of regen of some item. Tactical part of this mod is perfect. What I made suggestion is not about tactical issue, you may already know that.

Well, I notice that modding is generally for the purpose of make Vanilla more balanced and more challenging.
Challenging means need more retries for same stages. That is truth. It is contradictory that you can finish game for the first trial on more difficult mode.
So most players would be lost for their first trial and replay it.
Storywise, retrying, or scouting without scouting plot, is not smart, for instance, on Mandalia Plains, story says "they know we are here. they are going to try and ambush us." but for your second trial, you already know what enemies were, so you are taking counter ambushing, not like story says. :mrgreen:

To avoid the contradiction, avoiding struggling to find solutions by retring for same stages for the first play-through and offering chance of advanced tactical play for additional play-through is just suggested.

Anyway, I don't persist this suggestion, it is just my taste and play-style, so if creators don't think it is valuable to accept that, I don't disagree that.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 03, 2016, 07:36:43 AM
So, you are saying that vanilla should be changed to not have Gafgarion surprise Ramza at Golgorand Execution Site, simply because people lose that battle a lot their first time? Hell, we should probably just kill him off at the first scene in Chapter 1 of vanilla right? Since we already know he is going to betray us in Chapter 2?

No.

That's not how games work. We aren't playing from -YOUR- perspective. We are playing from that of Ramza and co. This is why even though YOU get to see scenes with Delita and others without the 5 main characters and know a bit of backstory. That doesn't mean that they do.

Furthermore. How boring would games be if you ALWAYS knew exactly what was coming? You mentioned that you didn't want to read the wiki because you didn't want spoilers, but instead you want us to tell you exactly what the battle lineups will be before hand OR make them easy enough to beat even if you are poorly prepared??

I'm not trying to sound insulting. I just really don't think you even thought about that suggestion. Every single game with a save feature is capable of what you just mentioned...
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: somenoob on September 03, 2016, 08:24:58 AM
Well, I'm not willing to continue this topics I think it finished and I'm also not trying to sound insulting.
But seems something you misread about my opinions, so I'll just correct that as below.

So, you are saying that vanilla should be changed to not have Gafgarion surprise Ramza at Golgorand Execution Site, simply because people lose that battle a lot their first time? Hell, we should probably just kill him off at the first scene in Chapter 1 of vanilla right? Since we already know he is going to betray us in Chapter 2?

No.

Of course, No.
I didn't mean that extreme. I just said on another topic that I had an impression that series of story battles are difficult in a row after having decent story battles in JOT5, and on the opposite, I have impression that Vanilla has easy battles between difficult battles. So not saying/suggesting deleting difficult story battles completely. That what I meant.


Furthermore. How boring would games be if you ALWAYS knew exactly what was coming?
That is what I really feels.

 
You mentioned that you didn't want to read the wiki because you didn't want spoilers, but instead you want us to tell you exactly what the battle lineups will be before hand
I never meant I like to be told what battle lineups will be before hand. Never.

 
OR make them easy enough to beat even if you are poorly prepared??
Yes, but occationally, as in Vanilla, that is what I meant.
And if you do so, the good tactical/strategic part with toughness of this mod would be spoiled so that I suggest implementing them in the another campaign, that what I said.


Again, this my topic is finished.  But BTW, I really expect that later Chapter would be tougher than in Vanilla, especially Chapter 4, in Vanilla, that chapter was rather easy.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Elric on September 03, 2016, 08:44:43 AM
I understand that, however, I feel there ARE enough easier battles, which is why I mentioned that I've only really heard about people having difficulty with Bariaus Hill, Sweegy Woods and 2 of the bosses, as well as a couple Randoms (which are being fixed)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on September 04, 2016, 01:37:59 PM
The thing I like about Jot5s difficulty is that it is noticeably different for the original while still retaining a great deal of balance as to not force the player to have to break the game to win (1.3 insane). I never really understood people when they would say Tactics is broken as shit when you had to go out of your way to break it. I remember playing the game for the first couple of times and would not get through Dorter without some JP grinding.  Jot5 definitely forces you to use all the skills the game has to offer rather than a few OP/expensive skills, and they do it not by nerfing or buffing skills but by make them more or less commonplace. Balancing the skills and their effectiveness in each battle is where the difficulty comes from and trying to increase it would force me to have to cheese it for the harder battles which was my main gripe with the 1.3 insane mod in that it was not fun to play.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 04, 2016, 01:55:00 PM
i personally found in jot5, that the start is extremely hard, but if you endure the "many" game over at the start XD then you get very strong skills, and it's not that hard anymore, more like enjoyable. It would be impossible to play for people who are completely NEW to FFT , but this mod is definitely not aimed to those people.
 
Plus, "somenoob" Try to remeber that while doing a mob, or even a videogame from scrap , it will be ALWAYS IMPOSSIBLE to make everyone happy, it doesn't matter how much you work, someone will always have something to say about your work! XD

I just hope they keep up the "hard" part of the game, because i'm afraid that once we get enough skill, "for veterans" the game will be as easy as vanilla. So even if i will be pissed and maybe i will want to give up, i hope the battle will be as stressfull as they were in the first chapter ahhaha.  (and that i will be able to get Delita in my party *-*)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 04, 2016, 05:40:34 PM
Quote
i personally found in jot5, that the start is extremely hard, but if you endure the "many" game over at the start XD then you get very strong skills, and it's not that hard anymore, more like enjoyable.

IMO, it's kind of meant to serve as a slap to the face that breaks you of some bad habits in regular FFT where your actual Tactics involve recklessly zerg rushing your enemies with little regard for positioning or keeping near your support units, because only a very small percentage of battles actually feature enemies who bring something more threatening than autoattack to the table.

Specifically: Ramza starts out just as strong of a melee fighter as the rest, but he's also the only one who starts out with a support ability. After that, almost every ability he can learn is a support ability.

Link's in a similar situation. He's a bit more attack-oriented, but he still has ranged and support options that are worth cultivating. That's why he only has a single sword ability, but three ranged ones and three songs, as well as the option to switch his equipment on the fly. (In the rerelease, switching his weaponry won't even consume your turn.)

Dante, too, has some very good versatility with his weaponry. Unlike Link, he can't switch Styles in combat, but his base job can easily adapt to whatever battles you have coming your way.
- As a Swordmaster (his default), he's a strong DPS character. You can keep him there, but you don't have to, and I would strongly encourage you not to if you're looking to pick up more utility on your team.
- Using a dagger to switch him to the Trickster and picking up those abilities suddenly gives him a ton of utility. He's got two ranged attack skills, one self-Quick skill, and a Regen/Defending skill that not only makes him tanky as hell, but also replenishes his MP, allowing him more freedom to use special abilities. You don't have to switch him to a utility character, but the option is there.
- Using a crossbow to switch him to the Gunslinger makes him a strong DPS character, similar to the Swordmaster, but with the added benefit from attacking at range, which protects him from some harm.
- Using a hammer to switch him to a Royalguard turns him into a very tanky unit and adds the ability to buff the party. 

Snake is designed completely around the idea of being a utility character. He's meant for surprise attacks, gambler strikes, chasing down and finishing off weakened targets, or simply distracting foes and being protected from the consequences of it thanks to his high Move, invisibility, and/or self-healing potential.

In fact, the only character designed to be a pure DPS character is Cloud. And considering the utility of Cross-Slash, even that's not 100% accurate.

The idea of backing away from pure zerg DPS is also why jobs like Knight and Ranger have major utility (Knight gaining heavy support, Ranger gaining heavy debuffing) while their equivalent Jobs didn't in FFT. It's why Wizard comes with the potential to inflict status on most of their spells.

It's also why the Chemist job suddenly becomes much more useful, instead of just having single-target heals and a billion different single-target cleanses. Sapling is powerful as hell, for example.

Basically, support and utility actually become important parts of FFT in Journey of the Five. The opening battles are hard because they're supposed to teach you early on to go get those types of abilities, instead of spending all your JP on pure DPS stuff. When you leave Lionel Castle thinking "aw man, that would have been so much easier if I'd had more MP," you put a higher priority on, say, Saria's Song or Encourage. (Fun fact: the three of the Five who use MP in their base jobs all have at least one way of restoring their own MP in said jobs.)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Tempest on September 05, 2016, 05:15:43 PM
I both needed and admired that slap in the face to break old bad habits caused by an OP team in the old tactics and easy difficulty. First few battles really do force you to take things up a notch. Regardless of strategy though the beast master fight was quite brutal. At that stage in the game you Don't have the ability to level up your men elsewhere, or try different line ups or skill orientations. Its all just, lets hope i can kill that beast master, Chocobo, and Lamia before their teams utility out lasts mine.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on September 05, 2016, 07:27:49 PM
Sorry I have to completely disagree with JOT5 being too hard. As someone who thinks it's not hard enough...I think it's a great middle ground. It's challenging at times, but no fight is ever impossible or boring. Sometimes you get crushed and have to rethink your strategies. That's good! It is a strategy RPG and, well requires strategy and thinking. I would cry if they completely nerfed the difficulty on the normal mode. Once there is an easy mode it would give you the option to play an easier mode first, then play normal mode on second play. Plus with the new marks and crafting system you will be able to make the game easier, all you'd have to do is spend some time collecting materials. I definitely don't think this is impossible for people who have never played FFT, I mean it's the same concept as FFT. Read skill descriptions, experiment and think before you act.

I don't remember you guys talking about a new game+ either, but hey sounds awesome! I would love a hard mode ( hell mode  :mrgreen: ) someday too, but yeah I'm a challenge junky. You could even work on it years after the final release, if you decide to.

Vanilla, IMO, was broken. I didn't go out of my way to break it either. It's just some characters and classes were better than others ( a lot better ). All it really took was leveling up in few OP classes(or vise versa), and vanilla was no longer even a challenge any more.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on September 05, 2016, 08:48:07 PM
Quote
Regardless of strategy though the beast master fight was quite brutal

I never found that one hard though >_>

It felt like it was a step up from other fights, but not horribly so. Kill the enemy healers, kill the enemy that uses AoE, be very careful about damaging the enemies that use Self-Destruct until you're ready for it (and then it turns out each of those will heal the other if they can, so you can take advantage of that to make one heal instead of fight - bonus points if they're in a position to both be hit by Whirlwind Blade). You start in a very well defended position that makes it easy to stack up and surround enemies one by one, too.

Quote
Sorry I have to completely disagree with JOT5 being too hard. As someone who thinks it's not hard enough...I think it's a great middle ground

Don't forget, this is only Chapter 1! :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hyraldelita on September 06, 2016, 12:55:11 AM
Well what i can say, is this "I didn't find any impossible fight.." well off course you didn't otherwise there would be a problem....
Jot5 is hard , and if you say it's "normal" Then you should have made a video of your VER YFIRST run, and show how you deal with the first chapter without ever realoding or quick saving. And show me how some fights aren't very hard.
The 6 turtle at zirekile falls, the many lamia + beast master, Sephiroth it's not easy at all the first time you do it, even if you spam cross slash he can still hit you and pretty hard too.
Even the battle with Alma against undead malboro and werewolves is very nice, you have to play well to end the fight without problem, if you take it lightly you're going to regret it.
I Honestly DOUBT that you went through all jot5 without a single game over.  which mean we veteran FFT player die which mean the patch is hard, and it's perfect like this.

Off course once you know the enemy attack and learn some very OP skills then  the game become easier. but as i said in my comment, easier , but still enjoyable.
It looks like everyone ignored what i wrote, but i did write, that i hope the difficulty will be kept untill the end, because in vanilla, after you get a few key skills, all battle become kinda easy to handle.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on September 06, 2016, 05:21:34 AM
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Don't forget, this is only Chapter 1! :P

I like the sound of that!  :twisted:

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Well what i can say, is this "I didn't find any impossible fight.." well off course you didn't otherwise there would be a problem.....
Well the not "impossible" fights I meant weren't a literal impossible, more like there was no broken computer rage fest battles. Definitely game overs, I fought the rock beasts on my first random encounter. A good lesson on saving lol. Even after you figure out the strategy for them, the higher tier ones can even counter that strategy, which caught me by surprise and pwned me. One of the bosses absolutely destroyed me, after the first few fights led me to a false sense of security. The other boss is a beast lol. Like I said it's a strategy rpg, you gotta expect to go back to the drawing board once in a while. Those slaps in the face are most the fun of a game for me.

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Then you should have made a video of your VER YFIRST run

If ya ever need me to make a video to show you how to beat anybody, just let me know  ;)

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IMO, it's kind of meant to serve as a slap to the face that breaks you of some bad habits in regular FFT where your actual Tactics involve recklessly zerg rushing your enemies with little regard for positioning or keeping near your support units
^^
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on September 06, 2016, 11:51:47 AM
I wish I would have made a video of my first run through. I didn't have a hard time at all (lucky) save the bosses and maybe a random fight or two. I remember I played it straight through, I think it took something like 6 hrs. The random battles were brutal in some places (Barius Valley!) so I stayed to places like Mandalia Plains, woods and such and didn't seem like a real hassle. The random battles were favorable to me for the most part and I hadn't really ventured out of the base classes all to much.

I also did not over level or grind to much and took the game as it came for the most part. I tried to stick to weapons and skills that allowed support among my group and range combat (Link and Snake) and took advantage of status where I could. The only real terrible thing I had to do was save scum to get through that one mark in the thieves fort :mad:. I pretty much ended up doing that for the bosses at the end only because I didn't want to go through all the text again. Moving away from the base classes more aggressively on the next play though will help ease any difficulty I was having during the first play through.

I really recommend if anyone has not played Ch. 1 that they do so before the rerelease as to satisfy the urge to keep the 5 in their base classes and to save effort for the official play through.

10 out of 10 will save scum to steal that sword from the final boss again.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Guru on September 06, 2016, 04:49:01 PM
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I really recommend if anyone has not played Ch. 1 that they do so before the rerelease as to satisfy the urge to keep the 5 in their base classes and to save effort for the official play through.

Yeah, it's nice to get a feel for the characters and see what builds you like too. Shit I played till level 70 just trying to figure out what I want to do for each character. Now level 70 monsters in ch1 are tough  ;). But when it comes out again I already know which direction to go, depending on the changes anyways. Plus I never had concrete cloud/link builds.... don't get me wrong though cloud is my second MVP. I was gonna make cloud a samurai but I might make him a summoner instead of link if he is more compatible reviver. Cloud would make an OP samurai though, since his limits are magic based attacks as well, plus buffs and healing!

You can't steal weapons in jot5, otherwise I probably would have save stated to be honest. FFT stealing = broken computer for me  :roll:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Rfh on January 23, 2017, 09:01:26 PM
Elric, I replayed this game recentely and I thought about how could affect the game a back/front/side damage modifier. I'm a bit disappointed about high evasion gameplay. It leaves the battle in the hands of your lucky instead of you strategy, or it just
lengthens unnecessary the battle. I replayed this mod with a bit stall team, abusing with invigoration, revive abilities and MP absorb, I  never lost a battle in my walkthrough (except the hypnotoads battle :mad:) and I saw how some battles were elongated
needlessly (from 10 minutes to 25 minutes) just because I had bad lucky and the attacks failed even with a 70% many times in a row. It just makes the battle boring.
I don't think that you will change this at this time, and some people may prefer a luck based battle system, but I left it as a suggestion, because back/front/side damage modifier and a bit less amount of evasion could improve even more the game.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nyzer on January 24, 2017, 06:16:45 AM
Well, two issues I can imagine with that suggestion would be the difficulty of implementation and how it might affect the game balance.

I don't think changing the evasion mechanic into a damage reduction effect is an ASM mod that already exists, so it'd have to be built from scratch. Which would be a major time investment.

And a big part of the difficulty in any of the 1-enemy boss battles of Chapter 1 is how evasive they are. A 50% damage reduction isn't as potent as a 50% chance to miss, if you ask me. Consider how much damage can be done to the final boss with Light Arrow, if it hits. If Light Arrow is part of your strategy there, it makes you really, really want Link to get behind the boss, instead of just giving him the highest ground you can and leaving him there, which would make it harder/less likely for the boss to go after him.

If the boss' facing only affected damage reduction, it would be less appealing to sacrifice Link's high ground.

There are also several abilities available that can't be evaded. Changing the way evasion works would take away some of the utility of moves like Omnislash or Ultima.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Rfh on January 24, 2017, 08:27:31 AM
Well, two issues I can imagine with that suggestion would be the difficulty of implementation and how it might affect the game balance.

I don't think changing the evasion mechanic into a damage reduction effect is an ASM mod that already exists, so it'd have to be built from scratch. Which would be a major time investment.


The ASM hack isn't a problem, I'm an ASM hacker. I doned it yesterday:


75% of original damage is taken from the front, and 125% from the back if FFTpatcher "evadeable" flag is active.

If Jot5 uses an ASM that works at 0x00186568 routine, the hack is incompatible, but I can modify my hack just knowing what is the 0x00186568 ASM that is working.



And a big part of the difficulty in any of the 1-enemy boss battles of Chapter 1 is how evasive they are. A 50% damage reduction isn't as potent as a 50% chance to miss, if you ask me. Consider how much damage can be done to the final boss with Light Arrow, if it hits. If Light Arrow is part of your strategy there, it makes you really, really want Link to get behind the boss, instead of just giving him the highest ground you can and leaving him there, which would make it harder/less likely for the boss to go after him.
If the boss' facing only affected damage reduction, it would be less appealing to sacrifice Link's high ground.

I haven't said to remplace the evasion system to a facing system, I'm just thinking about combining both.

Yeah, it isn't as potent, because you just can reset the battle making the same moves or just taking a save state to ensure that it works. I see some FFT and tactics ogre gameplays on youtube, that the people don't won the battle, they just had lucky that X move didn't fail and because of that they won the battle. If they didn't it's as simple as reset your battle hoping that they wouldn't fail.

If you do low damage from the front is basically the same. You don't want to do low damage and you will move to make more because if you aren't fasT your team will be defeated. With a high evasion system a fail can you cost the entire battle, or make you win it. Playing with a defensive team would be the same, hit rates would be compensated with the damage modifiers.

The Sephiroth battle seems like it can be defeated with a some lucky attacks. I played it with defensive party keeping a huge healing and the battle took a while. But I just could defeat him with some few hits using a full offense strategy if all of them hits.
I hate this style of playing, but it could be doned. I just need to reset the battle some times and sephiroth would be defeated. Raising his defenses and lower his evasion would avoid that.
Keep in mind that I defeated ganondord at the first keeping Link on the high without moving it much, atacking with light arrow at 70% rate the most of the time.

More than a better system, it's more about what you want. In my case I prefer the defensive type for the reasons that I stated.

There are also several abilities available that can't be evaded. Changing the way evasion works would take away some of the utility of moves like Omnislash or Ultima.

You are wrong, because these abilities could ignore the face damage modifier.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: KingUrameshi on January 24, 2017, 11:28:33 AM
I really, really hate when strategy games go for the luck based system to carry out battles (ala tactics 1.3). Please stay away from using that kind of system for your typical encounter.

Having said that I did not notice a problem with needing to be lucky to win or having enemies pull off crazy evades. The Sephiroth fight seemed very appropriate since you were dealing with an enemy who is supposed to be extremely skilled and his high evasion fit him very well.

The only problem I encountered with enemies evading was when I was trying to assassinate people with Snake. In that case too I was very successful assassinating many enemies. Again the balance is top notch although I have not played since my original playthrough.

Currently playing Valkyria Chronicles & The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth.