Community Patch effort

[VincentCraven]

Geo is balanced, and I will see to it that it gets minimal attention. I think Geo is our ideal class. Still pulling for that half-earth though, mainly because... all one has to do is float to be immune.

What about Move-Find Item for Thief? Geo with Move on Lava is a more harmless way to get the items hidden in the lava squares, but either way...

I would like one character to have terrain abilities. Maybe Oracle should have that instead of half lightning and water?

Okay, I'll admit it. Bard with Float is outright ridiculous. I guess after playing fe4 where bards (aka Levin, the only bard in the game) dominated the game I felt the need to make Bard in fft special. If I could merge Bard and Dancer, I might be able to get away with something, but they do have opposite skillsets.

I also have the ability to make classes immune to status effects! I won't touch that though, seeing as how I have enough problems as it is with supports.

Blue Mage and Mediator seem to be competing for the same innate abilities. Should either of them have Monster Talk or Train? I think I'm going to get rid of Monster Skill because I can simply choose the best skills for each monster to use.

[Argg0]

or bard, so far I've given it equip robe, 60HPM 14HPC, and.... dunno.
"Bards are not meant to be used"? I hope you are joking.

According to their original stats and weapon option, they are close to a joke class like Edward, the famous spoony bard. They are just like Calculators. I don't think you would use a Calculator after you done learning Math Skill...

So, Why do I consider them "not meant to be used"?
- Leveling on it is bad. Your physical stats are going to decrease a lot. Males are not really meant to be mages, so that's not a good thing.
- Harps, like Books, have horrible targeting. Harps rule in theory (most Omni Class SSCCs been using them when they become avaible, they have quite high WP when they show up), but their Range and Formula screws it. If Bard had descent PA it could be more useful.
- If Growth wasn't enoght, Multiplayers are bad too.

Their original stats:
HPM:  55 | MPM:  50 | SpM: 100 | PAM:  30 | MAM: 115
HPC:  20 | MPC:  20 | SpC: 100 | PAC:  80 | MAC:  50
Level 99 as this:
Level 99 HP 93-99, MP 39-42, PA 3, MA 13, SP 11

My suggestion:
HPM: 75 | MPM: 90 | SpM: 100 | PAM: 90 | MAM: 115
HPC: 13 | MPC: 13 | SpC: 100 | PAC: 55 | MAC: 50

HP: Somewhere in between Summoner and TM
MP: A lil lower than Geomancer
SP: Normal
PA: Lil lower than Priest
MA: Kept.

Level 99 in this way:
Level 99 HP 179-191, MP 100-107, PA 12, MA 13,SP 11

Now, Bards are a normal class with potential to be used. Allow them to use daggers and maybe crossbows (too much D&D? >_>).

Using Fayre Hard (a Poachable item) they have 15 WP... Twisted Headband, Power Sleeve, Bracer allow him to deal... 165 damage.

Now, an archer using Gastrafitis (10 WP), without PA Boosting gear, deals 170.

Now you could argue that bard may be a good carrier... no it isn't. One unit that needs armor to have HP similar to Wizards while having lower base MA... his own skill set can be carried by anyone. Having 5 MA more will increase the healing by 10, which is... next to nothing, and 5 MA is a lot.

[karsten]

Geo is balanced, and I will see to it that it gets minimal attention. I think Geo is our ideal class. Still pulling for that half-earth though, mainly because... all one has to do is float to be immune.

What about Move-Find Item for Thief? Geo with Move on Lava is a more harmless way to get the items hidden in the lava squares, but either way...

I would like one character to have terrain abilities. Maybe Oracle should have that instead of half lightning and water?

Okay, I'll admit it. Bard with Float is outright ridiculous. I guess after playing fe4 where bards (aka Levin, the only bard in the game) dominated the game I felt the need to make Bard in fft special. If I could merge Bard and Dancer, I might be able to get away with something, but they do have opposite skillsets.

I also have the ability to make classes immune to status effects! I won't touch that though, seeing as how I have enough problems as it is with supports.

Blue Mage and Mediator seem to be competing for the same innate abilities. Should either of them have Monster Talk or Train? I think I'm going to get rid of Monster Skill because I can simply choose the best skills for each monster to use.

so maybe we could be joining blue mage-mediator to make a new unit?

also how about taking off mime and inserting a berserker? by the way short charge on berserker makes him act faster.

i was thiking about how to make a berserker... we might put it in place of mime, or maybe we might just create a set of squire only items,

axes
armour
cap

that give you always berserk+ some bonus... something like this:

fury axe: xWP, always berserk, haste
fury armour: XXHp always Berserk, protect
fury Cap: XXHp always berserk, shell
fury shield: low evade, always berserk, regen

this would allow us to have a new class without taking another class off...

what do you guy think?

[Asmo X]

Move-find item for thief is a pretty neat idea. I still think it should have the mantle of "speed champion" as well instead of Ninja who simply does not need to be the best at that.

Part of me would love to see Geo get the whole terrain kit. Weather, water, lava. Would that be too much? Walk on lava and Any Weather are rubbish. Water walking would be useful without being extreme. Keep half-earth. Suits the Geo and it's no biggie.

I don't think we should combine the Mediator and Calc. Mediator should get all the monster engagement skills since engaging the enemy is what it does. Blue Mage has typically been an engager of monsters but I think this one ought to be different. Keep it's name as "Calculator" and have the description reflect it's observant nature as an "appraiser" of skills or something.

I think the Mime becoming a Beserker is a good idea. I'll put a vote down for that. The way you described it Karsten sounds pretty hardcore though. Always beserk and haste w/Fury Axe? Ouch.

[VincentCraven]

Arrg0: Good point on Bard. Then again, Square is quite lacking on ideas. They do have a few good ideas, like modeling off TO (or was it another tactic game?), but the whole Bard idea obviously was a lame joke.  Those Bard stats are pretty nice. My general idea is similar:
HP: lower than Wizard
MP: under 100, since Sing requires no MP
Sp: not boosted, since Bard's primary is Sing. Any reason to decrease it?
PA: definitely boosted, but no more than Priest
MA: 115 or 120, growth stays worse than all mages
Equip: Robes (how about Harp casts magic?)
 I'm guessing D&D is dungeons and dragons. Anyway, I will either boost Harps or change them all into other weapons in which case he could use something like Crossbow. Bard is definitely a defensive class, so I might make all Harps similar to the Healing Staff, adding several good status.


Karsten & Asmo X:
I don't like the idea of fusing the two classes because their roles, while related to monsters, are widely different. If I did fuse, I'd probably do away with Mediator skills almost entirely. Let's view the set, shall we?
Invitation: a unique ability, but I'm giving it to Ramza like in v1.2, unless objections arise
Persuade: Original - caused problems with Zodiac battles. v1.2 - Stop w/o cast time
Praise: If it and Cheer Up are removed, we have no more brave problem, right? Except for your main man, w/ Scream.
Threaten: Foxbird w/o cast time
Preach: I don't think high faith broke anybody, but we can add Faith
Solution: Anything lower faith? Nothing but Innocent, right?
Death Sentence: Secret Fist
Negotiate: Steal Gil w/ range
Insult: Blind Rage, Beo's Berserk
Mimic Daravon: Sleep, Beo's Sleep. We'll always remember how boring Daravon is.

The skill set wouldn't entirely be missed, though it is pretty unique with no cast time or MP cost and 3v3 range. Removal of Mediator would move skills like Negotiate to Thief, Death Sentence to... not Blue Mage, etc. Fusion only really comes in with the Monster Talk. Giving Ramza Invitation was a huge step in overshadowing Mediator.

Geomancer... water walking, maybe. The others are perfectly fine.

I much prefer the Berserk Items over the removing Mime. However, the item with innate haste should come late, or never, depending on how powerful berserk equips are. I do like the combo that makes it fit with Squire. Maybe just add a point of Speed on a couple of pieces?

I never knew Short Charge made berserk units act faster...

[Chrona]

Hehe this is going to be pretty cool. Does Blue Mage have a status removal one like Choco Esuna in the other spells? I'm not really sure if Odd Soundwave takes off negative statuses or if whatever move you gave from the Trent family does.

Giga Flare would have been cool but whatever. Blood Suck seems pretty cute on it, but it would probably lead to an instant win/loss, depending if you have 108 Gems or not. Just move out of the way of the Blood Suckers and let them finish each other off. I'd say it should cost a little more JP, simply because early on nobody would have any protection against it or means to dispel it. Also, I want Blue Mages to appear in battles too.

I'm all in favor of the Berserker, Auto Battle is fun to watch anyhow =p

You could either boost Bard or combine it into Performer, doesn't really matter.

Can't you add classes to the job wheel anyhow? Why not add something like an unused class and turn it into what you want?

Random idea - how about adding (as best you can) Dark Knight or Onion Knight classes from the PSP version? I could see Dark Knight being somewhat possible, since Gaffy has it. The Move/Jump + 3 would also help, if bard/dancer don't get combined

So yeah...any clue when it'll be out? I call tester =)

[Asmo X]

Looks like I misread the Berserk suggestion. Either way for me. I'm not attached to the Mime but whatever.

Jury's out on Haste + Berserk. Imagine the full kit on someone. Geez. Maybe the statuses on the Berserk items should be Protect, Shell, Regen, Mv+1

Yeah don't combine Mediator and Calc. I agree those Mediator skills aren't exactly amazing but it's a unique set. Maybe some of the skills could be improved somehow? (btw, if I wasn't clear, the skills I was talking about giving the mediator in my previous post were the talk, train, skill supports.)

Oh yeah, Bard has to be immune to silence. I mean, come on. I know that's not very helpful but it must be done!

[Argg0]

Dark Knight would be rather impossible.

Conic AoE with different formula depending on range?

Not to mention the other skills...

Unless you make him equal to Gaff...

[VincentCraven]

Karsten:
So where did you find that Short Charge makes a berserk unit act quicker? I'm not seeing that in the BMG.

Chrona:
Blue Mage skillset is still being adjusted and may have a Choco Esuna. Odd Soundwave takes away positive status, like Dispel Magic. Giga Flare may be put in just because it looks cool, but it will be weaker on the Blue Mage than on the Behemoth character. Perhaps I'll replace Blood Suck with Drain Touch, but I'll have to see. Mutilate might be fun too.

 I don't know how to add classes to the job wheel, somebody else will have to find where I do that before it'll happen. I'm doing my best to make this noticeably different from v1.2 without going overboard. The main hindrance for release of Sigma is that it will include changes to battle (entd4.ent) and I may make some funny changes to the wrong section without knowing it.

Actually, if you are willing to test it for me, I can just give you the scus_942.21 part and you give suggestions as to which battles need to be changed. You wouldn't see any Blue Mages as enemies, but I'm sure you could find a place to put them in for the "official" release.

et al:
Bard w/ silence immunity... could work. I'll test that and see how it goes. I don't think Bard and Dancer should be fused, only because of their skillsets. I see no reason not to give Bard Move+3 and Dancer Jump+3 in their set.

Dark Knight and Onion Knight are ideas that I may consider for a much later project, because I'd have to.... add new formulas and stuff??

[Chrona]

Go ahead and send the current file, but I won't be able to check it for a few hours at least. Maybe not today, kinda busy

[VincentCraven]

I haven't finished editing the scus_942.21 part yet either, but it should be good to go in a few days, depending on how many tests I have this upcoming week. Also, I don't know how to post files on the internet, but I can certainly e-mail it to you when I get this part done.

[Chrona]

Sounds fair. mailto:Demonwing13@gmail.com">Demonwing13@gmail.com, whenever you need it

[VincentCraven]

A few questions...

Gained Jp Up should be removed from regular units and Ramza, right?
Should Job Level Requirements be boosted like in v1.2? Should the Jp to reach each JL stay the same?

How would you guys feel if I removed abilities from the game, like Monster Skill (most can use their Monster Skill), Blade Grasp, or Quick?

[Argg0]

Why remove Quick?

It's not broken or anything.

[VincentCraven]

oops, I meant Critical Quick. Quick is fine.

[Chrona]

If you're removing Gained JP Up, why bother increasing toe job level requirements? It would just serve to make it more annoying to get to a class.

[Xifanie]

Higher lvl req. = Enemies with more abilities = More abilities on crystals = more crystal hunting (I find it much more fun than acummulating)

Plus, propositions looks much better that way. Getting higher tier classes with propositions isn't hard at all and doesn't take much time. Plus you get money most of the time. Just an old option getting a new lust.

So, for me: No gained JP up & higher lvl requirements all the way!

[Argg0]

It also make the enemies have more JP...

CQ isn't broken... not without Math Skill.

[VincentCraven]

The Quickening? It doesn't require Math Skill.

[Edit: posted a little late]

[Chrona]

Actually yeah, that probably would be pretty good then. Not too much higher though