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Started by ShadowSkyle, May 19, 2012, 10:30:52 pm

Which plot should the main story revolve around?

Initial Contact With Lucavi
Conscript
Neophyte's Revised Plot

ShadowSkyle

July 07, 2012, 02:50:22 pm #100 Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 03:23:51 pm by ShadowSkyle
New poll started! Who should the main character be?? If an original character is selected, they will be part of an existing faction.

Just to clarify, if original character is selected, then we will discuss the plot of the game before diving in to see who that char will be. If the character is a known entity, then we will build the plot around them!

formerdeathcorps

July 07, 2012, 03:35:54 pm #101 Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 03:46:36 pm by formerdeathcorps
The nationality actually doesn't matter too much to me, as I have characters prepared for either case.

Actually, looking at the canon plot, things are reversed:
A war that caused terror for nearly 50 years between Ivalice and Ordalia, known as the "Fifty Year War". The War was ignited when King Diwanu died without naming a successor. The throne was succeeded by Diwanu's brother, Valowa, but Denamunda of Ivalice, declared war.  This was only an excuse...the real reason was because of... Zelamonia,  a  territory  of  Ivalice  running  along  the Ordalian  border.  It  was  once independent,  but was annexed  over  a  century  ago,  after  an  invasion. Ivalice supported Ordalia, but the result was failure. Unrest among the  Nobles  and  in  the  cities  of  Zelamonia,  along with Ordalia's rule, led them to seek intervention from Ivalice.  With  victories  in  the  early  battles,  Ivalice's  Army marched on the capital of Bura. But King Denamunda fell ill and was never to return to his kingdom. The confusion gave the Ordalian Army an opportunity, as Valowa was successful  in  holding  off  Ivalice's  Army. Approximately 2 year stalemate of was broken by the Romandan Army's invasion.  Romanda  is a  military state  seperated from  Ivalice by Larner  Channel.  Under  King  Valowa's  orders,  a  blood relative,  they  marched on  Ivalice. But,  Denamunda who succeeded King Denamunda was a brave warrior against both the Romanda and Ordalian armies. An outbreak of Bubonic Plague in Romanda forced them to retreat in 3 years.  The 2 squads most effective in the war were the Hokuten, led by Balbanes, and the  Nanten, led  by T.G.  Cid. They scored many victories as they marched on Ordalia. But the long war was disasterous for both administrations. Farmers' revolts and riots broke out in many areas, as both kingdoms focused their war efforts within their borders. This made another  stalemate  broken  only by  the death  of King Denamunda.  (Widely  believed  to  be  assassinated)  His successor, Omdolia was not fit to lead the  kingdom, and left all matters of state to the elder statesmen and the Queen. Therefore, there was no power to drive the troops of Prince Lanard, Valowa's successor, out. After allowing  the invasion of Zeltennia, battles that both  the Hokuten and the Nanten fought in, Ivalice hoped for peace. Realizing the war was useless, both kingdoms agreed  on peace, focusing  their efforts  within  their  respective  borders. Although the agreement was bilateral, Ivalice surrendered.  Soon after, Ivalice's economy was on the brink of bankruptcy because of severe war reparations. Payments could not be made to returning  soldiers, and  large groups  of Knights were discharged. As a result, high unemployment, uncertainty and distrust filled Ivalice.


1) Zelamonia was part of Ivalice once and was also somehow independent?  That makes no sense, but assume for the sake of sanity that Zelamonia was independent of both nations.
2) 150 years before the Lion War, Ordallia annexes the place with Ivalice's blessing, but never fully subjugates the area.
3) At the start of the 50 Years' War, the local nobles there ask Ivalice to save them from oppression.
a) This means the local nobles willingly asked for the help of a nation that had assisted Ordallia in oppressing them.  Obviously, they are using a lesser evil argument, but would the peasants and merchants in the area accept this?  Seriously, this sounds like an extremely unpopular deal that would go over very poorly for Ivalice.
4) Ivalice crushes Ordallia in a series of battles and nearly captures Bura.  This implies easy victories; we can assume:
a) Ordallia is the weaker military of the two.
b) This whole thing did not take more than a decade.
5) Assuming 10 years passed, then we have Ivalice's king die from sickness and war.  Ordallia manages to fight off the invaders but are stalemated in two years.
6) Ordallia seeks the help of Romanda, a blood relative of Ordallia's king.  They invade Ivalice but are repelled by Ivalice's king.  Romanda doesn't invade again because of the plague.  This implies there are two ruling families: Ivalice's ruling family, which once ruled Ordallia, and the ruling family that now rules Ordallia and Romanda.  This breaks the plot at multiple points:
a) Romanda is known for their guns.  The fact Zeakden is loaded with gunpowder explicitly to deal with the Romandans on the other side of the Larner Channel implies Romanda probably had cannons too.  This is not some pushover army.
b) If the confusion involving the death of Ivalice's king allows Ordallia to break the Ivalician assault but Ivalice quickly stifles any Ordallian gains, then either Ivalice does not need a king leading the army to function (since they repelled Ordallia without one at the helm) OR the successor king fought alongside his father in Ordallia.  However, we can exclude the latter because if that were the case, there would be no confusion in the Ivalician ranks following the death of their leader, and Romanda probably would have taken over Ivalice without their leaders at home.
c) The Shrine Knights probably entered the war in earnest after their territory was attacked by Romanda.  The Heresy Examiners and missionaries probably joined Ivalice's army to convert the conquered territories, but recall that Funeral always wanted more power in Ivalice (which the game never adequately explains how the Church lost in the first place), so it would make no sense for the man controlling the Shrine Knights to weaken his own military to have it fight alongside his rivals, especially if they were winning the war in Ordallia.  Of course, the Elibdis scenario I outlined could have happened as well (as part of an overall scheme to lower the Church's influence in Ivalice).
d) Romanda left because plague affected their homeland.  As medical knowledge was not so precise then, the very act of transmitting the information to retreat would have spread the plague to Ivalice.  This poses a serious plot problem for FFT.  We know that Delita lost his parents to plague, as did Ramza and Alma lose their mother.  This means the plague must have affected Ivalice in Year 35-40 of the war, but given Ivalice's military supremacy, that's not possible.  The only other possibility is another plague that affected Ivalice later, but as a reader, this is an extremely unnatural assumption because only one plague is mentioned in FFT, meaning the only reasonable assumption is that the same plague that killed off Romanda also harmed the aforementioned characters.
7) Both sides continue their stalemate because of internal riots.  This seems like an innocent set of words, but it poses more problems:
a) If most of Ordallia was under occupation, such riots would have assisted Ordallia in repelling the invader.  This implies either Ordallia is either so oppressive or so culturally diverse that most people in the empire don't care if Ivalice take them over OR the regions near Ordallia's capital under Ivalician occupation do not comprise the majority of the empire.  The phrasing in the FFT leads me to conclude only the latter makes any sense because Ordallia must have territories not under occupation that opposed the high taxes.  This isn't to say, of course, that Ordallia may not also be a less united nation than Ivalice (which may explain the military dysfunction).
b) We can only assume a situation with Romanda similar to my storyline; in other words, both before and after their Ivalice excursion, they were militarily hampered and could not send another army.
8) Ivalice's king dies to assassins (probably sent by Ordallia) and Omdolia takes the throne, but he is a weak man and his wife runs the affairs of state.  This results in Ordallian triumphs under Prince Lenard and an invasion of Zeltennia.  This implies that Ruvelia is at least 15 when Omdolia takes the throne (or she wouldn't be mature enough to understand the affairs of state).  Since Omdolia is 7 years older, he would have been at least 22.  Since he is 35 at the start of the game, this must mean he took the throne no earlier than Year 37 of the 50 Years' War (and the stalemate lasted at least 22 years as well).
a) We concluded in 6b) that Ivalice's army at Year 12 did not need a king to repel Ordallia.  Given that most of the same generals survived these 25 years and only became better fighters and tacticians in the process, why would a bad king suddenly cause them to fail?
b) More importantly, where was this frail king?  If he tried personally leading the troops, his own generals probably would have overrode his decisions (and he probably would have died in battle).  Since he survived, it's only reasonable to assume that he remained in Lesalia to be dominated by his younger wife and the Senate.  But again, such people have no rational reason to impair the functioning of Ivalice's army; even a careless legislature composed of men who have never fought a war would not think of deliberately sabotaging the war effort.  If there was any sabotage involved, it can only involve the Church wanting Ivalice to lose so it could reassert dominion over Ivalice.
c) The fact that Ordallia managed to successfully pull off an assassination in Ivalice implies that they definitely have fixed their military and special forces, from top to bottom.  It is probably equally likely that they also fixed any domestic discontent/economic supply problems.  Thus, the only LIKELY explanation for Ordallia's subsequent victories is military reorganization under Prince Lenard.  Obviously, the lack of bold and imaginative leadership on Ivalice's part (by now, Cid and Balbanes are getting old, and even if they can still fight, their creativity would be diminished) would seal their fate against a reinvigorated Ordallian army.  I think part of it probably was the use of peasants to fight the Ivalician occupiers, which would have given Ordallia a much needed boost in manpower.
d) Considering that Ordallia are fighting on home soil with help of local elements, they probably routed Ivalice to their pre-war borders in half the time it took for Ivalice to invade.  This 5-year counterattack probably would have even won over Zelamonia, given a 40 year Ivalician occupation of the place, with forced religious conversions and mass executions of dissidents.  It just goes to show...be careful for what you wish for.
e) The invasion of Zeltennia would have lasted no more than 8 years.  In it, Limberry was completely taken over, Poesekas drained of both water and people, while at least one invasion on Bethla Garrison was attempted.  Similarly, the Death Corps and Ryumaku were founded to assist the weakened official troops.  Their controversial tactics blunted the Ordallian attacks and forced both sides to the negotiation table.  However, this brief period seems to contradict the experiences of Cid and Goltana.  The former notes that when the Nanten were fighting Ordallia, a stronger enemy, they had the "support of the people" and "defended the land".  For a grand noble from an illustrious family to think like this requires a long-term change in worldview.  8 years on the defense in a land he barely knew (because of his time abroad in Ordallia) would be insufficient.  Something like this is only likely if a generation had passed while defending the land, alongside the people who lived there.  As pompous as he was, Goltana talked of "fighting for the people" in the Lion War; since Ivalice is a feudalist nation with no notion of popular democracy, a grand noble would not talk in those terms unless he had employed it before when it had some legitimacy (namely, when Zeltennia was invaded for an extended period of time and required the average peasant to fight alongside the nobles).  This process is by necessity an extended process because the arming of the peasants in independent brigades to fight a common enemy is the last resort for any feudalist state.  Doing so entails the immediate risk of peasant revolution after the war because the state just granted the peasants military parity with the official armies.  Obviously, 8 years, even of successive defeats in Zeltennia, would not really push Ivalice to this edge because we know that Bethla Garrison was never captured in the war, implying that the frontlines were still at least a few hundred miles from Lesalia Imperial Castle.  Only a military crisis (loss of the capital) or an economic crisis (massive debt + overly high taxes to the point it impairs the war effort) would prompt such drastic actions.
f) If we want to keep any semblance of the vanilla plot, we have to assume Orlandu and Goltana were simply adding honors to their own name (rather than saying what they truly felt).  Given that, the likeliest scenario is that the Ivalician forces suffered repeated defeats in Zeltennia as Ordallia occupied the land.  Left to their own devices, many angry peasants began resisting the invaders by all means necessary.  Some former minor commanders probably joined them and functioned as leaders, though the majority of such organizations (like the Death Corps or the Ryumaku) were probably peasant controlled.  Given the history of Ordallia's oppression in Zelamonia, it probably wasn't difficult for such a revolt to cross into the Ordallian border.  This is why the nobility on both sides ultimately agreed to end the war; continuing it would have raised the specter of revolution in both countries.  Since Ivalice was the country that resorted to and encouraged such tactics, it "lost" the war by conventional means and thus had to pay reparations (especially since at the end of the war, Ordallia controlled Zeltennia's gold mines).  Of course, the Church probably heavily backed this deal since the resulting state would be economically weak and be ripe for domination.  With Balbanes dying (and probably living in regret of his actions in Ordallia), he (and by extension, Larg and the royal family) would have no reason to object.  Neither would Goltana object since he'd rather get his domain back as soon as possible, preferably in a governable state.  It would also explain Wiegraf's rage at the Hokuten; his tactics stopped Ivalice from completely getting wiped out, only for Balbanes to create a proposal admitting an Ivalician defeat at a time of resurgence.


In short, the vanilla plot and mine are somewhat at odds, but either is serviceable, though one needs to rewrite three elements of the vanilla plot (Zelamonia's relation to both Ivalice and Ordallia, timing of Romanda's invasion, and the length of Ordallia's occupation of Zeltennia) for it to make sense.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Taichii

how about the main character is an original charcter.. then every chapter is not only about the war but also each of the candidate's (balbanes elidibs and so on) story :)
Please do share your ideas and suggestion for my project:
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS : LEGEND OF MANA

Join our RP :)
"Desperation"

"PAIN. THAT'S WHAT KEEPS YOU HUMAN"

RavenOfRazgriz

As far as the plot goes, if you're doing a Side Story that only occurs within a small segment (a few years) of the 50 Years' War, the details before can be glossed and generalized except when relevant to that particular Side Story and ignored afterward because your Side Story doesn't last that long.  Basically, this approach allows you to "fix" any logical issues with the canon description of the 50 Years' War by simply ignoring them unless directly relevant to your plot. :U

Quman

July 07, 2012, 08:56:26 pm #104 Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:12:27 pm by Quman
EDIT: Okay, I really don't like how long my post was. Here's a shortened version that's been edited so it can exist inside of spoiler tags.

1) You should probably be looking at the PSP translation instead of the one we know is rather poor in places.

The half-century of conflict between Ivalice and Ordallia is today known as the Fifty Years' War.

The beginning of the Fifty Years' War can be traced to the death of Ordallia's King Devanne III, and his failure to name a successor. His cousin, Varoi VI, was next in line for the throne; however, King Denamda II of Ivalice (the uncle of Devanne III) proclaimed himself the rightful heir and declared war on Ordallia.

However, this was merely a pretense to justify the invasion of the neighboring Ordallian province of Zelmonia. Once an independent state, it had been annexed by Ordallia nearly a century prior.


Zelmonia had once been independent, but was part of Ordallia at the time the war started. King Denamda II declared war to make a territory grab. I'm guessing the part where it was called a territory of Ivalice was a mistranslation. The part where Denamda II proclaims himself the rightful heir is another noteworthy difference between the two versions of this story, though Denamda was referred to as the king later on in the original translation.

2/3)This is another section where the two translations disagree. Quite a lot, in fact.

Ivalice had since been aiding the province in an effort to weaken Ordallia - an effort that ultimately failed. Tired of Ordallian rule, the Zelmonian leadership and nobility secretly petitioned Ivalice to take a more direct hand in their liberation.

Ivalice never supported Ordallia. In fact, they had been doing the exact opposite of what the original script said. Zelmonia asking Ivalice for aid makes a lot more sense in that light.

4)The PSP translation reads a bit differently here too, though the difference isn't quite as major as previous differences.

After a victory in Zelmonia, the Ivalician armies marched on the Ordallian capital of Viura. As fate would have it, Denamda II succumbed to fatal illness on the road.

It doesn't sound so much like Ivalice is steamrolling Ordallia in this translation. Only one victory is mentioned (though it's quite possible there were others,) and it sounds like the king died before the army even arrived at Bura/Viura. It may have actually been a difficult march into enemy territory.

5)Again, there are some key differences in the translation.

The momentary confusion amongst Ivalice's troops gave Ordallia the opportunity it needed to regroup, and Varoi VI succeeded in pushing the Ivalicians back as far as Zelmonia. The resulting impasse would not be broken until the Romandan army's invasion two years hence.

Ordallia didn't just hold them off. Ordallia pushed them back as far as Zelmonia.

6)The two translations are fairly close here.

Romanda, a powerful military state lying across the Rhana Strait, marched on Ivalice at the behest of Varoi VI, a blood relation of the Romandan nobility. However, Denamda II's successor Denamda IV was a fearless warrior, personally leading his men into battle against the combined might of Romanda and Ordallia. This, along with an outbreak of the Black Death in Romanda, forced the Romandan army to withdraw after only three years.

It's unclear if Varoi is related to the ruler or Romanda, or if he just has relatives that are influential there. That's pretty much the only important differences.

7)Ordallia had already retaken all of their territory except for Zelmonia before Romanda got involved.

Two military orders worthy of particular mention in this conflict are the Order of the Northern Sky, led by Knight Gallant Barbaneth Beoulve, and that of the Southern Sky, led by Cidolfus Orlandeau, known also as the Thunder God.

After countless victories at home, these two orders had been poised to advance into Ordallia. However, the protracted conflict had begun to take its toll on domestic morale. Peasant uprisings and revolts throughout Ivalice and Ordallia forced both countries to send their troops home to pacify their own citizens, resulting in another stalemate.


Nothing important here. Just quoting it for completion's sake.

8)I assume you mean that the stalemate lasted at most 22 years, since it would be shorter if Demanda IV took the throne later (Demanda III seems to have been skipped.)

It was Denamda IV's sudden death by malady that broke the stalemate, although some claim that he was murdered. His successor, Ondoria III, was ill suited to the throne, and left the governing of Ivalice to his queen and retainers. Without Denamda IV's leadership, the armies of Ivalice had little prayer of preventing Varoi VI's successor, Prince Lennard, from defeating the troops stationed in Zelmonia and advancing into Ivalice proper.

8e)Orlandu never said they fought with the support of the people during the war. He said that it was the people who suffered the most during the war, which was part of the reason he opposed raising taxes on the commonfolk for the sake of the Lion War. Also, Orlandu doesn't specify that he fought to protect Zeltennia in particular. His line could be read as him having fought to protect all of Ivalice. Even if he was just talking about Zeltennia, what makes you think he hardly knew that land? It's not as if Zeltennia was originally Ordallian territory. Cid may very well have been born in there. He was most definitely born somewhere in Ivalice, and I don't think spending the first 40 or so years of one's life in a country before going off with that country's army to defend that country qualifies as 'hardly knowing' the country in question.

Also, the script was written by people with modern sensibilities. When modern sensibilities creep into the dialogue, that doesn't necessarily mean there's some meaning behind it. The writers just might not have stopped to consider that nobles never care about the suffering of the commonfolk.

Goltana's line about fighting for the people looked like nothing more than an attempt to justify his actions by using Orlandu's own arguments against him. Orlandu was concerned that continuing the war was making the people suffer, so Goltana spewed out some line about how they were fighting the war for the people.

Oh, and here's the rest of the PSP account of the war:

Despite the valiant efforts of the Northern and Southern Orders, Ivalice failed to repel Prince Lennard's invasion of Zeltennia. Ivalice's leaders soon began looking for a peaceful alternative. In the end, both states agreed that prolonging the war would prove mutually detrimental, and a pact was signed allowing each nation to return to addressing domestic strife. An equal peace in name, it was in reality a defeat for Ivalice.

The economy of Ivalice was brought to the very birnk of ruin as it struggled to pay reparations to its former enemies and to repay the loans taken from neighboring states to fund its war effort. Soldiers returning from the front found themselves without pay, and entire orders of knights were summarily discharged from service. The swelling ranks of the unemployed did little to relieve the people's distrust of the Crown and the nobility.

formerdeathcorps

Thanks for the clarification.

Let's draw the position from what we do know.
1) Plague happened 3 years after Romanda invades.  This means Ivalice was affected by plague no later than the fourth year.
2) Ramza is 15 at the start of the game (meaning Balbanes was in Igros at Year 35 of the war).  Considering Ordallia borders Zeltennia, Balbanes has no reason to do this unless he was going home to either suppress internal revolts or the Romandans.  Given the stature of Balbanes as a commander and his loyalty to the king, it makes more sense that he's at war with Romanda.
3) Romanda attacked Yuguo because we know the place was filled with the ghosts of the 50 Years' War during the Lion War.  This may be apocryphal but I do recall them attacking Dorter as well.  Combine that with the gunpowder at Zeakden, it makes sense they landed at Zeakden and radiated outwards (so they must have attacked Igros and Riovanes).
4) Bethla Garrison was never captured in the war, meaning the theoretical maximum of the Ordallian invasion would have been a few hundred miles from Lesalia.
5) Wiegraf is 30 at the start of the game.  Wiegraf probably did not form the Death Corps until he was at least 18, or at Year 38 of the war.
6) Delita lost his parents to bubonic plague.  As I mentioned earlier, it makes the most sense to assume this was the same plague that was spread from Romanda.

Thus, what I suggest is this:
Year 0: Denamda II (Age ~45) and his son Denamda III (Age ~18-20) lead their armies into Ordallia.
Year 5: Ivalice captures Zelamonia...somewhere around this time, Denamda IV is born, probably in Zelamonia to the daughter of a prominent noble there.
Year 25: Ivalice loses Denamda II (probably to diseases related to old age).
Year 26-31: Ordallia push Ivalice back to Zelamonia
Year 31-33: Stalemate (somewhere along the line...Denamda III dies, leaving his son in control)
Year 33-36: Romanda invades, but then withdraws
Year 37-40: Plague sweeps Ivalice and Ordallia, leading to mass discontent in both countries and a return of the stalemate.  It may be best to assume Valowa IV dies of plague to be succeeded by his son Lenard.
Year 41: Denamda IV dies.  Omdoria marries later that year.  Ordallia's counteroffensive is too much for Ivalice to handle.
Year 43: Ordallia enters Zeltennia, and the official armies are helpless to stop them.  The Death Corps and other peasant forces are probably activated around this time.
Year 49-50: Final treaty is signed, probably because of the economic costs of war and because the tactics Ivalice is now resorting to may upset the feudal order in both nations.

In short, we don't need to change the events hinted at by the PSP script.  All we need to do is adjust the secondary stalemate to a much shorter period of time.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

ShadowSkyle

Looks good, FDC. That simplified layout of major events and supported theories of previously unclarified events will help the storyboarding process a lot!

Neophyte Ronin

Once we decide on what we wish to use--Balbanes, Barinten, Cid, an Original Character--we can map out a personal history and get the storyboard rolling.  We can at least comprise a few skeletons out of seven-point-plots: devise a chief conflict, multiple intelligent attempts at resolution, a climax where everything is at stake, and a denouement where everything gets addressed before the credit roll.

Credit Roll... will we devise our own credit roll FMV that includes the original authors and programmers in addition to us as well?

ShadowSkyle

July 08, 2012, 12:26:38 am #108 Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 11:04:44 am by ShadowSkyle
@Neo: Once we decide upon the main character, and central story plot, I will be putting together a team of writers to begin discussing various plot elements and to start building the story.

As to the credit roll, if someone is able to put together something like that, it would be great.

ShadowSkyle

So it looks like we've decided on using an original character. So now comes a contest! What would you like to see the plot revolve around? This can be something completely original, or something within the history of the Fifty Years War that was never fully explained. Submit your ideas now! We already have some good ones submitted from previous discussions, but now is the time to get yours in.

Quman

Personally, I really like the idea of making Simon the protagonist of this game, or at least a major player. The main plot could surround the church's initial contact with the Lucavi. Either Vormav's predecessor becomes possessed and convinces his buddies that it would be a good idea to find more holy stones, or he's just interested because the Zodiac Stones are valuable religious/historical artifacts. Either way, Simon (or whoever the protagonist is) aids in the search for the latter reason, and ends up inadvertently causing some incredibly terrible things to happen. The Lucavi that awaken during this game may end up being defeated, but the Leo Stone and many others are already in the possession of the church, and it's only a matter of time before Hashmal gets things going again.

The major villains of this story would probably be Shemhazai and Mateus if it's possible to get sprites for them. Otherwise, the Lucavi that appeared in FFT could be active. Elidibus should probably be in the story somewhere. Cid should also be in the story, since he seemed to know a bit about what the church was up to in FFT, and since the Libra Stone was an Orlandeau family heirloom (though I don't think the church knew that he had it.)

As for when this would take place, my preference is to make the story fairly late in the war to avoid the implication that the Leo Stone did absolutely nothing for over a decade. Around the fortieth year sounds good to me, with the relatively mysterious death of King Denamda IV possibly being worked into the plot. It should be noted that Balbaneth's older sons were already active before Denamda IV died, as Zalbaag's profile mentions praise Zalbaag received from Denamda IV for his victories during the war.

RavenOfRazgriz

I've got one major question for you here Quman: Why are we basically recycling FFT's plot?  If you take what you wrote and simplify it down, it becomes "Mr. Tingle and the Church decide to collect the Zodiac Stones and unleash evil demons upon Ivalice."  If you simplify FFT down, it becomes "Mr. Tingle and the Church decide to collect Zodiac Stones and unleash evil demons upon Ivalice."  The details and faces are different but the core story is basically the same and that seems rather sloppy.

Quman

Uh... I always thought FFT was about Ramza and Delita, not the Lucavi. Also, this isn't so much about a villain plotting to bring back other villains as it is about a "hero" accidentally doing all of that stuff. I only listed Vormav's predecessor as one possible catalyst to cause this to happen; it's quite possible for this to happen without a possessed church leader leading the way, and it may well be better if the protagonist does all of this on his own.

Recycling FFT's plot would be using FFT's plot as the main focus of the story, but what I suggested was use the Lucavi plot as a way to tell a story not told in FFT. The whole reason I wanted to tell this story is because I was interested in Simon's background, the Lucavi just make for a decent catalyst. But if you ignore the main point of the story and just focus on the villains who are only there to support the main story and thus don't get as much attention, then of course the story I suggested won't end up looking very good.

formerdeathcorps

I was thinking the main character could be an average man who was conscripted into the Ivalician Army from Zelamonia during Year 31 of the war, ostensibly to defend his homeland.  Instead, following the Romanda invasion, he gets sent off to defend Ivalice and following the chaos of the Ivalician invasion, is forced to commit atrocities against Ivalice's people to "keep order".  Horrified by his actions (and by the fact Ivalice is truly no better than Ordallia), he is finally granted leave after he learns his wife died of plague, leaving him with a daughter to take care of.  Only a few years pass before Ordallia invades again, forcing him into the local militia, where he meets his end.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Dome

July 09, 2012, 04:51:09 pm #114 Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 04:59:13 pm by Dome
The main character should be the father of the squire leading the thieves that you kill in the second battle.
You die during the semi-final battle, and in the final battle you control your son and fight against Ramza (and lose)

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

formerdeathcorps

July 09, 2012, 08:43:07 pm #115 Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 09:02:02 pm by formerdeathcorps
De-hardcoding of Chemist:

BATTLE.BIN
0xDA414
09

For this to work, you need to set Skillset 06 to <Default>.  Once you do this, you can give chemists normal (non-item) skills.

Problems:
Spells are called the wrong thing (called [   ](something blank) when used by AI controlled units and Dagger [from the THROW command] when used by the player units).
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Neophyte Ronin

Quote from: ShadowSkyle on July 09, 2012, 03:42:35 am
So it looks like we've decided on using an original character. So now comes a contest! What would you like to see the plot revolve around?


An Ordallian spy deep inside enemy territory.  All of the hirelings are Ivalician, however, so he's acting incognito.  When he happens upon Gafgarion in Fovoham and beholds his anarchic brutality on the front-lines, it isn't just to weaken the Ivalice campaign, it is to stop a fiend from destroying both kingdoms to win the war.  The same could be said of fighting against Gustav, who was a routine offender during the war.  Before he or she can be congratulated, the spy returns to Ordalia before suspicions arise and they reinstate the cutthroat on a technicality.


A soldier from either administration dredged into a peasant revolt.  While his team attempts to put down the revolt, both sides resort to vile associations with monsters and use unthinkable tactics.  Petitions to the Queen and the regional governors are fruitless.  However, the officer receives help from an unlikely source: the Death Corps (Knights of Death/Dead Men/Corpse Brigade), with the reigning aide-de-camp Milleuda providing both a tender ear and a trusty sword-arm when things start to fall apart.


Investigate the disappearance of Elidibus, the wizard who retook Riovanes Castle and vanished into thin air.  This can take the protagonist all over the world.  The objective is to eventually happen upon the Deep Dungeon, advance to the lowest point and engage Elidibus himself.  However, it doesn't end there.  If you choose to fight him, he will kick your butt or merely retreat.  If you pause to consider his position, you will become his little accomplice, setting out to claim Zodiac Brave Stones.  The Libra Stone is in Orlandeau's hands, while Taurus is found inside Goug's mines.  However, your character gets second thoughts each time and comes up with nothing to show.  Elidibus ends up slaying you, and the legend of the Deep Dungeon is born from your corpse: a legendary mercenary that was done in there.


Frankly, I like Option Three for its scope, while the first two options are shorter in length.  Each one delivers a clear moral dilemma for the protagonist who tries to do the right thing.  Each one conveys a sense of doom as well.  However, the former two seem doable by not directly referencing the Zodiac Brave Stones, thus avoiding a rehash of the original plot.

formerdeathcorps

If we can expand on Plot I, I'd definitely consider it.  For starters, we need to give the spy a specific mission.  WE can even give him a series of increasingly important missions that show his increase in rank and the increasingly razor-thin balance of victory.

I don't understand Plot II.  What are the "both sides" you are referring to?  What exactly are the petitions to the Queen for?  Are the Death Corps suppressing the revolt or helping further it?  Why exactly are the official troops unable/unwilling to do anything?
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

ShadowSkyle

Very good ideas so far that the writers can have fun with. Decision will be made tomorrow, so post any last submissions now!

Timbo

I don't have any terrific plot ideas lined up. I would just like our story to lead into the first game. I'd like it to involve the new Lucavi Chaos, Exodus, Famfrit, Mateus, Shemhazai, Zeromus, and Elidibus as well.

I see know reason why we can't use an original plot and characters while still canonically giving credit to other characters as well. People would flip their shit to see appearances from Gafgarion, Simon, Balbanes, and Orlandu. Obviously some characters can't interact with plot elements like the Lucavi or even other characters.

I'd also, like to see some plot thread for a sequel to the original sewn in. A prophet or a prophecy with information about the 3 great disasters of Ivalice (Current game problem, second coming of Ultima, and finally the Calamity of the third game.

Finally, can we get some Viera and Bangaa in this one?
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