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Started by ShadowSkyle, May 19, 2012, 10:30:52 pm

Which plot should the main story revolve around?

Initial Contact With Lucavi
Conscript
Neophyte's Revised Plot

Fosil

On the topic of story, specifically set after The War of the Lions, anything we come up with can be lost to history, as it were. Much like how the church covered up Orran/Olan's works.

In contrast, many things that happened before the War of the Lions were (obviously) mentioned in various rumors/etc in the original game. I think it would be easy to work from those--while staying true to the original.

I shall mention again the Khamja, along with The Sable Swords, among other groups active before/during the wars. And, there's lots of other things to draw from. The Game script from GameFAQs can prove useful for re-familiarizing oneself.
  • Modding version: PSX

Eternal

I've wanted a story about Khamja for years now.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Neophyte Ronin

Even throwaway agencies like the Blackram.

While reading replies, I realized that throwing has to be placed in its own list from other options because if you go past sixteen options, the AI disregards the available options.  My advice would be to consolidate those options in the first place (i.e. have a Break Skill perform multiple Break Equipment checks in a single action, so as to free up the other options).  The concepts sounded okay, although there would be a few we wouldn't use.  I never intended for Knight Swords to be used, for example.  Pole-Arms are doable, except maybe for sticks.  Consolidating all oriental blades still seems like cheating since they seem to run according to size: Knife, Ninjato, Sword, Katana, Knight Sword.  If we require keeping command lists beneath 9 or below, re-work every list to accommodate this.  That includes Magic Commands.

About making everyone a Cleric:

I don't mean literal support-guy Clerics.  That's retarded.  I was referring to the degree of combat proficiency.  According to my model, if you were a "Wizard" you sucked with fighting and didn't get Defend.  If you were Cleric, you got Defend as an Innate, and if you were a Fighter, you got Defend and Weapon Guard Innate.  You wouldn't make a bunch of Command Ability lists to accommodate the notion that the Clerics must be support guys, you'd follow their approximate combat proficiency instead.  Since you cannot use a D20, you use Innate Abilities per Class to approximate.  If there's a reason that Class progression cannot happen, I haven't heard it.

Anyway, merging Throw and Item sounds okay.  Not totally realistic, but for the sake of programming, I guess it's fine.  Just another sign of how limited the program is.  Didn't random decisions occur according to Item Learn rates or something?

formerdeathcorps

July 03, 2012, 04:16:28 am #83 Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 04:23:02 am by formerdeathcorps
Except where does your realism end?

1) Realism in combat means a really high evasion rate on most units, but fatal KOs when hit.  Armor either blocks most attacks or it doesn't; only a narrow band of attacks actually allow the survival of 4+ hits before death.  REalism would also dictate the wearing out of equipment, especially shields and armor.
2) Realism would mean that units have a fatigue score that stops battles from going on forever.  You would also need to account for food, ammunition and potion allocation per archer/gunner/juggler/chemist, soldier size, and all the things that make many pieces of gear non-interchangeable.
3) Realism would mean that although most units are adaptable and can use multiple weapons and strategies, they'll still specialize in one or a few tools because it's what they focused their training on.  In that case, being realistic would dictate only a few reliable and effective abilities alongside a few very unreliable ones (which no sane player would use), which reduces immediately to FFT's dual job system (but a lot less flexible because your characters effectively lock into their jobs).
4) Your talk earlier about how it was unrealistic for someone untrained in medicine to correctly administer first aid under the stress of battle is certainly a valid point, but by extension, ANYONE who is mentally unprepared for the horrors of battle would have a hard time chanting a spell, swinging a sword, etc.  In short, we'd need to include morale, fear, and expertise into the success rate/effectiveness of each skill used.

In other words, I find your calls for realism to be fairly arbitrary because I can logically extend your argument for more realism to favor many other previously absent/under-emphasized game mechanics.  The logical result is a quadrupling of the stats necessary to track each unit and an increased inconsistency between any two units in comparison (meaning more for the players to memorize), while the gameplay is improved marginally (because the resulting mechanics are a lot less flexible).
Since we're not making a combat simulator, just an engrossing story and challenging set of battles for people to play, it should make sense that mechanics and storyline should take precedence over realism.  Of course, both of these need to stay true to Ivalice, which is similar to medieval Europe and feudal Japan, but the question isn't whether something is "realistic" in ancient warfare or the aforementioned societies, but whether it fits in Ivalice (as established by FFT) and helps make the game more fun to play, fill in mechanical gaps, or advance the storyline.  Like any piece of enjoyable fiction, a certain suspension of disbelief is necessary.

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Consolidating all oriental blades still seems like cheating since they seem to run according to size: Knife, Ninjato, Sword, Katana, Knight Sword.

The point was to only consolidate Katanas with Ninjato.  If we wanted to make other Asian weapons like Kunai/Katar (knives), naginata (spears), repeating crossbow (crossbow), etc. we'd classify those weapons accordingly.

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I never intended for Knight Swords to be used, for example.  Pole-Arms are doable, except maybe for sticks.

My original plan was to create only 3 non-shuriken/bomb weapons that you could throw: throwing knife, tomahawk, and javelin.  Everything else would be off the throw list to avoid weapon redundancy (and to reserve space in case people wanted offensive potions, soul bombs, etc.)  I do, however, think that doubling WP when thrown is a nice idea, if only to compensate for not being able to throw slashers or scorpion tails.

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If there's a reason that Class progression cannot happen, I haven't heard it.

My arguments against it isn't so much that it's impossible as much as it encourages overspecialization.  By design, you are simply not allowed to have a decent sword-mage in the wizard tree, or a status caster using MP in the physical tree.  As a result, when every job of ONE type is in the same branch and someone wants a "specific unit build", they have no reason to explore the other two job trees on that person.  One thing FFT did right, I think, was making you master the physical jobs on a female to unlock dancer and samurai (so you could have that draw out mage), and making you unlock the mage jobs on male to unlock bard and mime.  Not only does this also make it easier for the AI to unlock more effective skills, it also makes it more likely players will employ hybridized combinations.

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Didn't random decisions occur according to Item Learn rates or something?

I'm not using the skills titled Potion-PD anymore, so this won't be a problem.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

ShadowSkyle

July 03, 2012, 09:44:03 am #84 Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 07:00:36 am by ShadowSkyle
@Neophyte: Yes, Throw and Item have too many abilities for one menu. So a couple items may be consolidated or removed to make way for a couple throw commands. It'll work out.

We're not trying to make this similar to D&D. Tactics is it's own game, and should remain that way (at least for this mod).

As far as anyone being able to use Item goes (from your earlier post), you don't need to be a chemist to use such items, only to make them. Case-in-point: as a soldier, I was trained in field medicine. It's part of all soldier's training. And in FFT, most of the units began as cadets (A few exceptions, such as Mustadio, but it can be argued that he learned it for his dangerous job as well). I don't have to understand how morphine works, to know how and when to use it.

Weapons were not exactly assorted into size categories. A broadsword is generally 30 - 45 in. in length. A longsword was 47 - 59 in. Katanas generally ranged from 34 - 43 in. Right in the middle. Regardless, merging katana and ninjato is an effective method to be able to add a new class of weapons!

As far as throwing is concerned, very few wepons are crafted to be effectivily thrown. Just because a spear holds a similar shape, does not mean it's weight/balance/specific shape is arodynamic enough to be thrown with accuracy and distance in mind. Limiting the amount of weapons that can be thrown also allows for easier damage balancing of the skillset.

Hope this helps!


On another note: the poll is close, and can be recategorized as people wanting a Vanilla FFT based story, and a new one. So the poll is going to be consolidated into the two favorite choices. Please re-vote for your favorite!

Quman

Nice. When polls like this are used I'm always afraid of situations where division among the majority allows the united minority to win unfairly. It's nice to see you consolidating things instead of just blindly following whatever received the most votes. Granted, it seems that I'm in the minority that would have otherwise won, but the option that seems to be winning now was my second choice anyway. It's separated enough from FFT's storyline that we won't be too tied down with continuity to build up to a climactic conclusion. We probably can't use the Lucavi, but we have full access to pretty much every other important group in Ivalice.

ShadowSkyle

The poll has ended. Results are listed on the first post. The story will be written about some time before the Lion War. Before I put up the next poll, it's time for a bit of discussion. How far before the Lion War should it take place? Would you like to see events leading up to the Lion War? Should we go further back, to some prior historical event in Ivalice? Is there any particular character you would like the story to be about? Share and discuss your opinions here! You never know if we might write about your idea!

ShadowSkyle

Eternal has stated on IRC that he would like to see a story about Barinten or one of the Khamja Units during the 50 Years War. Any other suggestions/requests as to the main character or setting of this mod?

Eternal

I started a short story a very long time ago around Khamja, but I lost a lot of it when my old netbook died.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

ShadowSkyle

Ouch. Well, if this is the story we decide to go with, I'l let you know and we can start it back up.

Fosil

July 06, 2012, 02:33:32 pm #90 Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 03:29:49 pm by Tojoe
For those unaware, The Sable Swords:
Quote from: Game ScriptTo combat the theft and violence prevalent during the Fifty Years' War, the Sal Ghidos Council created an elite guard made of fifteen knights who had proven their worth on the battlefield. This group of black-clad warriors was known as the Sable Swords. It is said they perished after falling prey to a bandit's trap in Death's Gorge, but even today people report sightings of ghostly figures in black.

So as far as using The Sable Swords in story, perhaps one or more members of it did not die to the trap, and could be party members?

And as other party members go, an obvious, if perhaps too cliche, character addition is Balbanes/Barbaneth Beoulve (Ramza's father; If he is included, I'd suggest not as a primary character. Also, wherever Barbaneth goes, Thunder God Cid goes.)

Eldibus as a young mage trained in Magic City Gariland, and ally, yet progressing towards villain as he delves deeper into his ancient tomes?

Zerro, the legendary thief of propositions? Though, his age is unknown...

And even vaguer, how about the mother or father or other relative of Rapha & Marach, giving clues to the origin of their powers?

Something involving Simon? Based from this snippet:
Quote from: Game ScriptElder of Orbonne Monaster and renowned theologian, Elder Simon is a devout member of the Church of Glabados. Although he once served as a Church inquisitor, a certain incident led to his retirement, whereupon he withdrew to the remote sanctuary of Orbonne Monastery.

Why is Simon so eager to help Alma. Honest goodness, or something else entirely? (What about an unforgivable act against her father in secret?) Yay, mysteries!

Something involving Gaffgarion?:
Quote from: Game ScriptHe once served as a division commander in the Order of the Eastern Sky in the Fifty Years' War. But at war's end, Gaffgarion was expelled from the Order as a result of the barbarism of the methods he employed to ensure victory.


Additional villains can spring forth from the Khamja and The Church, among others.

If none of these suffice, it is not hard to imagine new characters. But, as far as the main hero of the story goes, it should be one who possesses skill in both physical and magical schools, much like Ramza. (His ample PA & MA; as well as Wish, Scream, Ultima.)

And on topic of Ultima and other learn-on-hit skills, what if the main character was sort of a Blue Mage, but learns human foe skills instead? That character would be in every story battle and thus able to learn these abilities, anyway.

I hereby propose a female lead with a Blue Mage-esque skillset. (Trending with the recent upsurge of mighty heroines.) She can even get freaky with Balbanes and give seed as to why Ramza can learn-on-hit Ultima. ;) Kidding! Or is it a good idea? Speak your mind, and give your own suggestions, eh?

Edit: As it turns out, Ramza and Alma's mother was a commoner.. hmm..
Quote from: Game ScriptZalbaag: What have you ever done to inspire my trust? The mistake was my own. Until today I had looked on you as a true brother. But your mother's common blood forever stains you common. You are not fit to bear the Beoulve name!
  • Modding version: PSX

ShadowSkyle

Very nice post, Tojoe. Whether or not we go with those characters as the lead, there's a good chance you'll see a few of them throughout the game (as long as it's during the 50 years war period)

Quman

I thought the game was to be set before the 50 Years' War, meaning Balbaneth and Cidolfus would just be children at the time.

Simon's old enough that he would be in his late twenties when the war started, so using him wouldn't be a problem. We could also use Balbeneth's father or Elidibus, though Elidibus still needs to be around for the war. We could also use a member of Khamja or somebody from Rapha and Marach's home village.

ShadowSkyle

It hasn't been decided when the game will take place exactly, only that it's before the Lion War

formerdeathcorps

July 06, 2012, 07:31:49 pm #94 Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 01:46:02 am by formerdeathcorps
Why are we doing a story about the Khamja?  They're just one little organization belonging to Barinten (or the previous lord of Riovanes), which itself is only a moderately sized principality.  If we want to do the Fifty Years' War, shouldn't we do a story about the entire thing, or at least the major players in it (rather than trying to force fit the Khamja as the major player)?

Year -5: Ordallia and Ivalice capture a neutral region in between the two countries.  The land is given to Ordallia.
Year 0: Ivalice declares war, demanding control of that region.  Although Ordallia was the larger power, at the time, they were at war with some third country and could not devote many troops to stopping Ivalice.
Year 5: Ivalice captures that region and proceeds to advance into Ordallia proper, destroying and looting virtually everything along the way.
Year 12: Ordallia makes a hasty peace with this third region and deploy their reserve troops en masse to defend their capital.
Year 15: Ivalice suffers a crushing defeat and loses its king in battle outside the Ordallian capital.  For the remainder of the war, the initiative will lie in Ordallian hands.
Year 20: Ordallia has recaptured all the land lost to Ivalice and is now threatening the area around Limberry.  Just 20 years of war has already deprived Ivalice of much of its old leadership, optimism, and funds.  Many minor nobles and investors who had expected a quick victory are now in debt.  To control the unrest, the Heresy Examiners (and similar mercenary outfits) were given police state powers over Ivalice.  Although many in the Church were pro-Ivalice, High Priest Funeral did not want to jeopardize the Church's missionaries in Ordallia.  Furthermore, Funeral wanted to rule Ivalice, which necessitated the Church being militarily and economically stronger than Ivalice.  Only an Ivalice in a state of disorder would grant the Church the right to have Heresy Examiners run freely.
Year 20 June: The Senate passes a law expropriating all Church convents in Ivalice.  At the time, Church convents held 1/3 of all arable land and much needed reserves in gold.  The Church viciously denounces this law and was prepared to send the Heresy Examiners after the Senate, but the King intervened, sending the surviving marshal of the failed invasion (Archmage Elibdis) on a secret mission to coerce the Church into the war, with his disappearance as a cover story.  After some horrendous magical acts in Muround, Funeral relented, but not before hatching up a plan to regain his lost control.  It is here that Elibdis discovers the Serpentarius Stone.
Year 20 October: The Church creates a contrived act among their followers in the border region between Ordallia and Ivalice as their excuse to declare war on Ordallia.  After this incident, Ordallia puts that border region under marshal law, forcing all members of the Galabados faith to swear fealty to Ordallia on the pain of death.  To prevent revolts from the inflammation of popular sentiment, Ordallia conscripted as many youths as they could from the area into their army (where potential rebels would be under scrutiny and subject to summary execution).  Since Ivalice was equally hated by many of the youths (because Ivalice had also looted the area), Ordallia knew most of the rebels wouldn't dare defect.  Many Church missionaries then became double agents for both Ordallia and Lionel.  One such man is Algus' grandfather.
Year 21 January: To deal with the Lionel, Ordallia sends their navy (which was at least double the size of the combined Ivalician-Lionel fleet) to invade Warjilis.  Eager to be rid of Elibdis, who is now increasingly insane (from the effects of the stone), the Church leaks this information to him, hoping that his bloodlust would save Lionel from certain destruction.  Off the coast, in an abandoned lighthouse...Elibdis summons a massive storm...
Year 21-27: Ordallia lays siege to Limberry.  Despite the help of Lionel in rallying the faith of the peasants and in providing able generals like Vormav and Draclau, Ordallia finally captures the region with their overwhelming numbers, siege engines, and harsh raiding tactics.  Just as an example, to stop peasants in the Poesekas region from supporting Limberry, Ordallia hastily constructed a dam to divert the entire water supply, leaving nothing but a riverbed.  Despite the mass protest of the peasants in the region (which actually boosted the Ivalician numbers), the Ordallians still managed to massacre nearly the entire region, leaving only ghosts in their wake.  What is murder to one is only revenge to another.
Year 27-28: Despite their success and size (and the capture of Limberry's gold mines), Ordallia was unable to advance further along that front.  Advances into Dolobar Province, with its swampy terrain, provided futile as both Ivalician regulars and peasant guerrillas repeatedly ambushed their army.  Advances into Germinas proved equally impossible as the steep cliffs and small passes allowed Ivalice to easily block even the largest of armies.  With such failures, the bulk of the Ordallian troops were redeployed, their invasions now headed into Zagradius and Zeltennia Provinces.  The depletion of Ordallia's manpower and morale advantage represents the turning point in the war; afterwards, Ordallia would no longer be able to rapidly conquer anywhere as even the peasants of Zeltennia volunteered themselves to oppose the Ordallian invaders.
Year 29-34: Ordallia wages a staked earth war and finally captures Zagradius Province.  The trade city itself was easy to capture, but the Pyrrhic victory in the countryside was contested acre by acre.  In many cases, land was salted over to prevent Ivalice from using it upon recapture.  Incidentally, this forces the Ivalician garrison in Germinas to retreat, as to avoid encirclement.
Year 34 June: Appalled by the losses, the Ordallian emperor visits his relative on the Romandan throne, begging for assistance.  Previous pleas were refused as the island nation itself was at war, but with the apparent defeat of a revolt in Romanda's colonies, Romanda agreed to lend an expeditionary force.
Year 35 March - Year 38 November: The Romandan army arrives and quickly captures Fort Zeakden, which they immediately upgrade into a modernized gun fort.  From there, their mix of rifles, cannons, and magitek knights (essentially hi-tech Holy Knights) wreak havoc upon Ivalice, capturing Igros, Riovanes, Mandalia, Muround, and Fovoham.  The Church was forced to relocate to Lionel.  Only the engineers' and the Khamja's hit and run tactics delayed the advance through Goug and Yuguo, respectively.  (Speaking of which, Barinten destroys Rafa/Malak's village during this time while blaming Romanda for the event.  Of course, he justified it then as "boosting the war effort" and not letting valuable talents fall into Romandan hands.  However, the village elder outsmarted the Khamja and hid the two children away before they were found again [which is why Malak talks of Barinten saving them from a life of eating garbage; for a few years, the siblings really did have nothing but each other].)  Many of the knights from Gallionne and Lionel who served against the Ordallia in the Eastern Front were forced back home, leaving the Nanten and their peasant allies defenseless against Ordallia.  Although their action saved Gariland from the Romandans, Ordallia in those years managed to sweep across Zeltennia, pushing Ivalice's line of defense back to Fort Bethla and Doguola Pass.  Just as a measure of the desperation involved, even the staid imperial guards of Lesalia were forced to participate in the latter battle.  The fear of the Imperial Capital itself being sacked, along with the Senate's distrust of the Queen, prompted them to create "Princess" Ovelia.  All in all, the Romandans were nowhere as barbaric as Ivalice or Ordallia; rather than destroying the land, they tried to administer the conquered areas as colonies by demanding tribute, installing military governors, co-opting local elites to assist when possible or freeing peasants (who had to pay high taxes to pay for the war but unlike their brothers in Zeltennia, were not truly affected by conflict, until now) to cause ruckus when it didn't.
Year 39 January-March: Ecstatic at their conquest but annoyed at the stalling of the offensive, the Romandan king devotes reinforcements the size of the original expeditionary force to crush Ivalice's remaining resistance.  By spring, the Romanda fleet crosses the Larner Channel into Zeakden.  Onboard one of the ships are a handful of rats...with fleas...
Year 39 Spring: Starting in Zeakden, plague spreads across Ivalice, killing Romandan and Ivalicians alike.  The advancing Romandan army is shunned by even their own comrades and military discipline on both sides collapse.  The colonization project also collapses as many of their administrators and peasant workers succumb to plague.  The survivors, many of whom superstitious, believe the Church propaganda that Romanda is an accursed enemy, reducing any will to cooperate with the Romandans.  In fact, this inspired Wiegraf to form the Death Corps, a peasant brigade committed to purging the land of the "accursed foe".  Bands of peasants would target both Ivalician deserters and Romandan officers.  Despite this, the surviving Romandan commander managed to capture Dorter by slipping through the ravaged Hokuten defenses, only to be repelled by Draclau at Zirekile.  With his death, Romanda no longer had the organization necessary to even function as an army, but the Ivalician victory proved costly: the battle spread the plague along vital trade routes into Lionel and Zeltennia.
Year 39 Fall-Winter: With Romanda's best commanders dead from plague or battle, the remaining troops fall into a disorganized mess.  Although Ivalice suffered equally from plague, most of their leaders survived, allowing Ivalice to regroup.  As a result, Balbanes, Vormav, and Barinten were able to evict the Romandans from Igros, Muround, and Riovanes, respectively.  Many of the battles were bloodless as most Romandan soldiers no longer had any will to fight.  By winter, only Zeakden remained, but by then, an ambitious Romandan corporal managed to claw his way into power.  Despite the mass desertions, lack of food, and near encirclement of Ivalice's army and navy, Romanda was finally a functioning unit.  200,000 men fought in the Battle of Larner Channel and despite the inevitable Ivalician victory, the Romandans managed to inflict disproportional casualties, as Ivalice had little choice but to use their numbers to exhaust the Romandans of bullets, gunpowder, and cannonballs.  (The Ivalicians rushed their offense because they were afraid that trying to starve out the defenders of Zeakden would cause Romanda to send reinforcements in the spring.  Little did they realize that the plague had also spread to Romanda and her colonies, leaving Romanda in no military position to devote more troops.)
Year 40 May-October: By now, the plague had reached every corner of Ivalice, Romanda, and Ordallia.  Plague, Romandan confiscation, and looting (by peasants and deserters from all the armies) had destroyed most of Ivalice's (Gallionne) reserves in population, gold, and war materiel.  With the death of peasant laborers, higher taxes were imposed on the merchant guilds to refill state coffers.  Many merchants openly refused to continue their support for the war.  Others, wanting to ensure their profits, joined the richer guilds in illegal speculation (funding both Ivalice and Romanda/Ordallia), despite the life sentence attached to treason.  Of course, many were trusted advisers to the royal court, prominent lords, or High Priest Funeral (as part of his revenge plot against Ivalice).  Although the word of peace with Romanda finally had reached Ivalician shores, it did little to bolster confidence as many minor nobles (the bulk of the officer corps) found their estates split up, depopulated, or ransacked.
Nor did the plague benefit Ordallia.  Their planned invasion into Lesalia had to be scrapped as plague ravaged their conscripts and officers.  Seizing the chance, half-noble, half-peasant resistance organizations like the Ryumaku, Black Sheep Knights, and others began stepping up their raids behind Ordallian lines.  Despite equally heavy losses among the commoners who comprised these forces, the sheer hatred of Zeltennia's people for the Ordallians allowed a fairly steady stream of recruits.  The reduction of agricultural workers meant little, as raiding Ordallian supply grain often substituted for locally grown food (but the long-term effect is the reduction of Zeltennian agricultural production as some areas of land was left fallow for too long, which is why Zeltennia always was suffering food shortage throughout the Lion War).  The increased resistance forced Ordallia to devote all of their reserves to internal defense.
An increasingly acrimonious struggle also arose between Wiegraf (who is either 18 or 22 at the time, I forget) and Balbanes over tactics and control.  Balbanes was the overall field commander in the siege on Zeakden and had demanded all allied units attack.  Wiegraf openly disobeyed orders, pointing out the hindsight recognition of its stupidity (though at the time, he was only trying to save his men from dying).  However, Balbanes' real motive was his intense dislike of the Death Corps' assassination and kidnapping, despite his own admission of their tactical effectiveness.  This decision was unpopular, not only with the peasants who comprised the Death Corps, but many officers in the Hokuten itself, who cared more to win the war (so they could finally go home), hopefully with some spare change.  Wiegraf was dismissed, but Balbanes' performance at Zeakden (which cost so many lives) lost him the support of the majority of the Ivalician Senate, who then promptly threatened to remove him from the position of field marshal unless Balbanes either reverse his own court-martial or integrate Wiegraf's tactics into the Hokuten.  Balbanes, just like his youngest son, refused to budge, expecting that the Queen would favor him due to his friendship with Larg.  Instead, to save her own face (and to stave off the possibility of a disgruntled Wiegraf leading a revolt), the Queen knighted Wiegraf and gave royal recognition to his "knight" order (meaning Balbanes could make no claims on overriding Wiegraf's authority without permission) while explicitly giving her written approval of Balbanes as Hokuten commander.
Year 41-47: The next few years brought limited success to the Ivalician counteroffensive.  Almost immediately, the arrival of reinforcements forced the recapture of Bed Desert, which was never a popular outpost for the Ordallians.  Although Bervennia was heavily fortified, the sniping of commanders and supplies took its toll, forcing an Ordallian withdrawal across the banks of Finath River in Year 45.  Further attempts by either army to cross it, however, proved futile as bodies piled up on both shores.  Nor could Ivalician army cross into Dolobar Province; despite the loyalty of many peasants, the Ordallians had sufficient troops to block any advance through the marshes.  However, Ordallian morale was at its lowest point in 30 years as guerrilla fighters seemed freely able to traverse the official frontlines.  No amount of armed reprisals against the local peasants seemed to faze them, nor did any attempt to "tighten their borders" have any effect on the numbers of guerrillas.  The fear of "headhunters" kept many mid-level officers away from dangerous districts frequented by Wiegraf and his imitators, creating pockets of resistance that often flared for weeks.  Nowhere was safe; even bases near Zeltennia Castle, the command center of the Ordallian army, suffered night raids.
Year 48 April-October: The Ordallian King dies, leaving only an infant son.  The regent is a man named Count Lenario, a capable diplomat and politician.  Although not a general (and thus does not know the extent of the breakdown of Ordallia's military), Lenario understands the grim economic reality: the past few years' bad harvests are pushing many Ordallian nobles to bankruptcy.  The war is a massive drain on Ordallia's economy; outside of LImberry's gold mines, Ordallia was unable to even use the resources of the conquered areas because of stiff peasant resistance.  Thus, he began sending secret diplomats to Ivalice to peacefully end the war.  His initial plan of keeping current frontline as a border, however, is flatly refused by Ivalice.
Year 48 December - Year 49: In the middle of blizzard at night, Ivalice launches a surprise attack across Finath, surprising and routing the larger Ordallian army.  With that, Ivalice prepares their counter-proposal to Lenario.  Initially, Goltana wanted to rule the border region between Ivalice and Ordallia, but Balbanes, now dying of Mosfungus poisoning, manages to temper that proposal to only the prewar Ivalician borders, through the help of Prince Larg (though Larg's motives were to check his rival).  (The border region had its own rebels against Ordallian rule, but the Ryumaku and Death Corps were treated also as enemies there.  It made only made sense for Ivalice to control what they could reasonably dominate.)  Lenario, chastened by the defeat, agrees to Balbanes' proposal.  Balbanes was to die that summer, not living to see the final signing of the treaty.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Neophyte Ronin

If we are before the Lion War, then the only milieu that comes close to gripping is the Fifty Years' War.  We certainly cannot recreate ancient Ydoran Ivalice with our current graphics.  I certainly don't want to go for what those Trollers were trying to feed us, as a "Screw You!" to them.  Also, the immediate postwar period was covered in Chapter One already, at least in northern Gallionne.

I recommend we compose a story about an Ordallian soldier and his unit far inside Ivalice.

I want a character who finds ironic defeat shrouded in victory, to lose everything to festering cynicism verging on nihilism.  I want people to experience the same thing from finishing the Vanilla game: the notion that everything fought for was in vain or otherwise futile.  The Film-Noir of period pieces, in other words.  There is a small victory of some kind, which somehow trickles down to influencing Ramza's quest in some way.  Even so, the soldier realizes just how useless and horrible the war and its resultant, so-called bilateral armistice really are.

The soldier runs into younger incarnations of Balbanes, Orlandeau, Simon, and Gafgarion (especially Gafgarion; write it so that his unit gets wasted by the East Sky and he is on the run from him in particular).  Other characters are also possible, but those guys are guaranteed encounters.  Elidibs is also a strong candidate.


The other notion I had was an adaptation of a dark western, like "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", or "Unforgiven". 
The idea is that a reluctant soldier is drawn into a campaign of terror and abuse alongside an unruly number of associates, like the Aquilor's one and only Gustave Margriff, the one who went around robbing and raping throughout Ordallia in untold war crimes.

Or, the menacing truth behind the borderline-heretical Baron Grimms, leader of the Blackguards called Blackram.  They claim to have been extinguished in the present game--this is why they would be hunted so menacingly.

The main character must fight against the desire to give in to that line between survivor and brute, lest the squadron fall with him (her?).  The objective, or MacGuffin, is a brilliant score of war spoils that could spell the difference between retirement from the field and utter oblivion, a risk that the main character will embrace at any cost.  Yet, that treasure turns out to be an ironic gesture, one that the character may seriously consider dismissing or watching burn.


The point is that the Fifty Years' War took that long to resolve and recreating it like those Civil War reenacting types is tantamount to the video game equivalent of Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace.  That could also be said of Tactics itself, considering how it will drop philosophical discussion amidst a battle (something I felt detracted from the believability of the narrative).  So FDC is right: we don't want to confine ourselves to a specific principality like Khamja and then justify parading across them the nation.  Then again, we don't want to embrace the whole war; the first half occurs in Ordalia (above Ivalice, across the channel) and we don't have a map to represent that region to any accurate degree (yet).

A tale related to but not explicitly about the Fifty Years' War is a lot easier to go for, should we go for a unique protagonist.  These are all ideas, of course.  If one of them sticks, so be it.

RavenOfRazgriz

Let me condense Neophyte Ronin's post here since he types about as much as The Damned and has about the same amount of overblown vocabulary going:

Make a Side Story using the 50 Years' War as a setting instead of trying to tell the story of the 50 Years' War instead.  This allows you the largest amount of creative freedom - most characters are unique, allowing you to play fast and loose with canon and mostly make your own adventures without having to satisfy any prerequisites - but you still get the advantage of having the 50 Years' War as a backdrop, easing the creative process and making it easier for players to get into your setting since they're already familiar with it.

It's also important to remember that your Side Story doesn't have to impact the ending of the war itself in any way, or even last long enough to see the ending of said war - a fulfilling story within the confines of the setting is all that's required.

Just gonna leave that here. :U

formerdeathcorps

I actually agree.  Given the brief sketch of the history I posted, to chronicle that whole war is madness; to chronicle any section of it in depth would require far too many characters and would determine the plot way too rigidly.  Such events can only be relegated to the background because putting such events in front of the player would clutter the plot with lots of history.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

ShadowSkyle

I would not try to cover the entire Fifty Years War...that would indeed be madness. I would hope it obvious that a small portion within that timeline would be selected, either with direct involvement, or outside influence. If anyone assumed otherwise, I'm sorry. There's simply not enough game to cover everything that would entail.

Quman

Whether you're covering the whole thing or just a portion, the point stands that making a game actually about the war leaves our hands tied in a lot of places. I don't particularly mind the game being set during the war, but "the Ordallian king died, so the war is destined to eventually come to an end," doesn't make for a very climactic ending, and ending the game at any other point in the war doesn't do much better. As such, I also say that we should tell a side story that uses the war as a backdrop.

As for who to follow... I don't have any particular preference, but I don't think focusing on an Ordallian is a good idea. The game has to be set in Ivalice since that's the area we have a map of, meaning the game's story will deal with a lot of people and organizations native to Ivalice. I would prefer it if those people and organizations weren't all set as the protagonist's enemy before the story even began. The interplay between the church, the government, and the peasantry of Ivalice lends itself to some interesting stories, but those stories will be harder to tell if everybody's out to kill the player right off the bat. I would prefer it if the protagonist were part of one of the groups in Ivalice, so that every other Ivalician group has the potential to be friend or foe.