Arena battle videos and discussion

[doriantoki]

Yes, that makes sense, of course.  I had some tweaks in mind, that came from seeing the glaring weaknesses in the team the first round, such as too much move on the Mediator, largely useless back row Chemists and things of a similar nature.  The team at it's core, shouldn't change too much.

[formerdeathcorps]

Break Arts (Eternal) vs. Vampire Hunters (doriantoki) Rematch

[Barren]

Note: I did the matches before some of you updated your teams so my apologies in advance next batch of matches I'll feature those changes for your teams

Until then, enjoy  

FFT Arena 1.334 Pierce (The Weekenders) vs CT5Holy (Holy Stones)

FFT Arena 1,334 True Light (D.N Angel) vs Celdia (Diamonds and Guns)

FFT Arena 1.334 formerdeathcorps (Season 5) vs Dol (Sticks)

FFT Arena 1.334 formerdeathcorps (Heresy) vs Dol (I Hate Zalmo)

FFT Arena 1.334 formerdeathcorps (Blood) vs DomieV (Song and Dance and Punch)

FFT Arena 1.334 Eternal248 (Living Dead) vs formerdeathcorps (Rivals)

FFT Arena 1.334 doriantoki (Model Citizens) vs Vigilanti (Get On Status!)

FFT Arena 1.334 Celdia (Even Worse Than It Was Before) vs formerdeathcorps (B Team)

FFT Arena 1.334 Barren (Deep Dungeon) vs PX_TimeForDeath (Holy Heretics)

FFT Arena 1.334 formerdeathcorps (Requisition) vs Malroth (First Strike)

[Malroth]

Will tweak team tonight

[RavenOfRazgriz]

spoiler: Weekenders v Holy Stones

Shields on Squires are no longer legal without Equip Shield, no.  Also, second game, the Priest wasn't Raising because she was... erm... dead.  :p

spoiler: D.N.Angel v Diamonds and Guns

HowinthefuckdidTrueLightlosethatsecondgame.jpg

spoiler: Season 5 v Sticks

All around high damage and pain.  Dol had no luck the second game but FDC had advantage anyway with that map because he had solid range and mobility, so it was more of a salt-in-the-wound deal.  There's no way FDC was competing with that damage up close, though, since only half his units could match that kind of one-shotting power and Dol had Raise 2 to reset what little progress FDC could make at that range.

spoiler: Heresy v I Hate Zalmo

Pain and agony.

spoiler: Blood v Song and Dance and Punch

Nice turnaround on the second game from DomieV.  The AI overvalues Nameless Song as FDC's Bards display here, though, hence why the newer version of his team doesn't run it anymore.  It almost cost him that third game until the Bard finally decided to attack, and probably was what cost him the second one.

spoiler: Living Dead v Rivals

The most surprising thing about this match is that Player 2 used Draw Out correctly.  FDC and I both had an error where Player 2 refused to use Draw Out (at least with a C Bag), hence half the reason for the 1.337 fix.  This game's weird sometimes I guess.

spoiler: Model Citizens v Get on Status!

Yes those Death Sentences were 100%, that's the other thing 1.337 fixes.  Vigilanti turned that bug against doriantoki pretty harshly though, ouch.

spoiler: Even Worse Than It Was Before v B Team

Witch Hunt is a glorious anti-Song/Dance skill.  Those Dancers could also be much better, and not having the mobile units able to revive each other is a huge weakness against anything able to weather Wiznaibus.

spoiler: Deep Dungeon v Holy Heretics

For your Monk, Barren, I recommend making him the last unit on your roster.  Monks do a helluvalotta damage with Jump and maximum PA, but 9 SPD is the worst SPD you can try Jumping with.  Placing him as the last unit will ensure he can resolve Jumps v other 9 SPD units as well to compensate for that some, maximizing his effectiveness.  This would also make him move after your Ninja, so the Ninja won't steal his kills as often.  Kotetsu really won this due to PX's low Max HP totals though, that and your Monk being immune to his Scholar almost entirely.

spoiler: Requisition v First Strike

...This song.  After watching the Chocolate Secret Let's Play and hearing the water theme on an accordion, I can't listen to this song without getting a serious headache and laughing my ass off.  Oh my god.  FDC's got an issue with the revival being on the easily killed Scholars, personally.  I'm not surprised he took the third game, the claustrophobic terrain favored him by far, but I'm surprised it came down to the wire like that.

[doriantoki]

spoiler: Weekenders vs. Holy Stones

Entertaining fight.  No petrify heal = clincher though in that first round.  Holy shitake do those Dancers smack for a lot of damage.  I would argue they carried the team, more or less, and are both the support AND offence.  You're right Barren on the no shields on Squires

spoiler: Angel vs. Diamonds

Angel team needed a more reliable form of MP restore.  Summoner Lancer with bad hit %, not an especially great asset to the team.  But fared much better second round, though.  The nail in the coffin second round though, no reliable way to deal damage.  The critical units at the end inched their way forward, but couldn't really do anything.

spoiler: Season 5 vs. Sticks

Small map, Sticks absolutely massacre.  Great teams all around, with offence and healing.

spoiler: Heresy vs. I Hate Zalmo

Rape scene.  Of the most violent kind.  Herey is a really scary team that is more or less completely maximized for damage.  I don't know if it gets any better than that.

spoiler: Blood vs. Song

Another scary team by fdc.  Though Song and Dance has the big advance on large maps.

spoiler: Model Citizens vs. Get On Status!

Charm rape, absolutely.  I am actually surprised that my team lasted that long, overall, upon viewing it in action, it's a pretty weak team overall.  Also, my Monks were supposed to be using Wave Fist, not Repeating Fist, but it's a small detail.  GG Vigilanti!

Thanks Barren for the uploads.  I also enjoy the commentary a lot  

[Barren]

you're welcome doriantoki....though please note that i did say that i made the matches before i saw the update so once again my apologies. i did make the changes afterwards

[PX_Timefordeath]

I seriously question some of the moves by my team.... Like the lack of Bio3, Petrify, Sleep, and Charm. Especially that random staff whack. Also, wtf when did Kotetsu become 3 range? Seems really stupid to me.

[Barren]

FFM made the changes since i think 1.32 was released and draw outs had a CT. Now Koutetsu and Murasame I believe still have a CT but the rest is instant. Plus Muramasa is now 1 range and can inflict I think only Death Sentence. I'm of course talking about the changes for 1.33 and beyond because of bugs needed to be fixed

[DomieV]

spoiler: me vs fdc

I got to say that was brutal match between us, very close round 2. If only my bard acted my intelligent i would have won, but even if....your bloody strings bard absolutely wrecked my team OHKO style....GG formerdeathcorps. We should have another go sometime soon

Maybe I'll think of a new team soon considering there are new things I haven't tried yet

[doriantoki]

Been noticing some trends.  Monks with Ninjitsu maximized for damage = teh arpe.  Stick wielding anything, maximized = also teh arpe.  I still think Bio is overpowered, and one of the most powerful and economic spells.  One shot Holies and Flares are also effective.  FDC has some strong ass teams y'all, containing the aforementioned first two.  Also, I've noticed it's better to let a unit die and resurrect them to full health with Raise 2, than waste turns with healing of any sort.  Healing is difficult to maximize, and placing the team on the defensive seems to generally be a bad idea.  The problem is that while in general the AI is suicidal, when in critical, they will retreat above all options.  It's actually better to let a unit go in, do damage, die if they must, and be rezed at full health, than have that unit take damage, and run away in critical, either wasting turns healing (from the unit in question or other team units) or sitting in a corner cowering.

[Barren]

FFT Arena 1.337 CT5Holy (Iron Will) vs Celdia (Even Worse Than It Was Before)

FFT Arena 1.337 Dol (Rare Skills) vs Eternal248 (Blitz)

FFT Arena 1.337 doriantoki (Vampire Hunters Extraordinare) vs Vigilanti (I Kin Hurt You!)

FFT Arena 1.337 RavenOfRazgriz (Playground Pioneers) vs Squidgy (Dark Secret Love)

[Celdia]

spoiler: Iron Will vs. Even Worse

Woohoo!
This is exactly why I named the team what I did. Its even worse against high HP units with HP Restore.

[doriantoki]

lol what's your strategy then?  Win by default in those kinds of matches?   

[Celdia]

Strategy? You're assuming I bother to think that far ahead. I have a history of joke/theme teams in these competitions and I rarely (actually, I think never) pass the first round of them. "Even Worse" and "IASD" are both joke teams for the most part. The first is a revival of a team that got my name cursed pretty bad for ever making it in the first place back in the last Arena tournament because it was just Dance Dance Mime Mime for like 15+ minutes per round. I thought I'd see how that basic structure would hold up again but as you'll note in my team submission for it, I wholly expected it to just be ignored for using those tactics again. "IASD" is equally a joke because it was built to take down one team and it should lose to everyone else. It pushes the idea of how teams in Arena really can fall into a Rock-Paper-Scissors concept.

Diamonds & Guns was a bit of a theme to begin with, focusing on 100% hit damage effects. Credit where credit is due, Raven did help me refine how it works despite my protests of wanting Dancers instead of Archers because they fit the theme better. If you've seen the Co-Ed Rat Pack matches that's my usual outing for these kinds of things. D&G is a fluke because I let someone with a better understanding of the metagame coach me on reworking them...and to be fair I still didn't take all his suggestions. They could be improved.

....wow. Didn't mean to rant there. <_<;;

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Been noticing some trends.  Monks with Ninjitsu maximized for damage = teh arpe.  Stick wielding anything, maximized = also teh arpe.  I still think Bio is overpowered, and one of the most powerful and economic spells.  One shot Holies and Flares are also effective.  FDC has some strong ass teams y'all, containing the aforementioned first two.  Also, I've noticed it's better to let a unit die and resurrect them to full health with Raise 2, than waste turns with healing of any sort.  Healing is difficult to maximize, and placing the team on the defensive seems to generally be a bad idea.  The problem is that while in general the AI is suicidal, when in critical, they will retreat above all options.  It's actually better to let a unit go in, do damage, die if they must, and be rezed at full health, than have that unit take damage, and run away in critical, either wasting turns healing (from the unit in question or other team units) or sitting in a corner cowering.

>Is running one of the most threatening teams currently.
>Is running pure defense.

Also, Bio1/2/3 have the same power as Ice1/2/3 for double the MP cost and only slightly lower JP costs because Ice is overpriced for no reason (both series are more expensive than the Fire/Bolt series, though, with Bolt easily being the best of all four)... and Bio is also the worst possible Element any skill could ever have.  It's definitely not the most economical, and definitely not the most powerful.  An absolute min-maxed Bio 3 vs 40 Faith only does 201, and your unit's going to be shit in basically every other department trying that.  You'll do a lot vs 70 Faith, but that's how almost all magic works when you're minmaxing.   There's also the bit where purely minmaxed Scholars are generally terrible ideas, too.  Most at the very least give up their Elem Boost for an Ivory Rod, which can crank out a mean 150 damage without any percentile boosts with max MA and 70v40... and even then, most of these kinds also give up Magic Attack UP to run Two Hands or Two Swords with some combination of Gold Staff, White Staff, Flame Rod, and Wizard Rod, any setup of which can do far more than Bio 3.

spoiler: Iron Will v Even Worse Than It Was Before

Kids trying to copy my Iron Boots.  Ugh.  This demonstrates what I see as a key flaw in both teams though - their Dancers barely do shit early on, and their units that do move can all be taken down like paper, so caving in the faces of both teams is incredibly easy unless the map is huge or you're someone like Eternal who gets disassembled viciously by Wiznaibus somehow.

spoiler: Rare Skills v Blitz

Blitz got blitz'd.

spoiler: Vampire Hunters Extraordinare v I Kin Hurt You

Faith backfires, things get raped.  Ouch.  That's the risk of running Faith Rod.  Not much else to say here besides the fact you probably should be running revival on the units most likely to live... which in this case isn't the Oracles.  A lot of teams seem to do this, and stuff all their revival on the units most likely to be targeted and maimed horribly.  Stoppit.

spoiler: Playground Pioneers v Dark Secret Love

Two incredibly claustrophobic maps + him dealing double damage to half my units + him having huge instant AoE or MAP skills that don't trigger Dragon Spirit + my unit's AI being unexpectedly conservative + him having higher speed on said units able to deal tons of double-damage AoE = What did you seriously expect?

Shit happens.

[doriantoki]

Ah, don't throw the book at me, I'm still learning.  *ducks*  Good insight though.  I haven't dabbed much with magic yet, and I'm just commenting on what I am seeing in the matches.  Fire/Ice/Thunder series, very rare.  MP cost seems negligible to me, to some extent, as I've noticed most teams have some manner of MP restoring on their magic units, which, of course, makes sense.

Faith backfires, things get raped.  Ouch.  That's the risk of running Faith Rod.  Not much else to say here besides the fact you probably should be running revival on the units most likely to live... which in this case isn't the Oracles.  A lot of teams seem to do this, and stuff all their revival on the units most likely to be targeted and maimed horribly.  Stoppit.

*sigh*  I am at a crossroads here.  I am not sure if anyone noticed, but this team is supposed to be set up so that the Oracles Zombie the enemies, and then the Knights take them down for a (usually) reliable ~75-80% consecrate.  The Knights are built beefy, too, so they can take some hits before the Oracles set up the spells.  However, as has been demonstrated, the Oracles are absolutely planetary-destruction style violated by magic.  I am thinking of lowering the Faith just a tad (~62-63), ditching Faith Rod, and slapping Magic Defense Up on both.  My concerns are now, though, somewhat low percentage Zombie.  Also, I could outfit them with more HP.  All this too, however, means that the one Oracle's White Magic will be doing asstacular healing.  And Raise won't be very reliable.  Oh, and another thing I've noticed.  How bad of an idea was Ignore Height.  It's like, "Hey dudes let's get into range of the opposing team so they can one shot us on their first turn!  Yay!".  Ugh.  Decisions, decisions.  Oh, one more thing I could add to the equation, Protect and Shell, perhaps via equipment, on the Knights and Oracles.  With Magic Defense Up, Shell, and a lowered Faith, the Oracles shouldn't be getting one shotted anymore.

Course I could say fudge it to all this and build a Monk/Monk Ninja/Ninja Ninjitsu rape team with Punch Art support.  No need to worry about Faith nonsense.

Two incredibly claustrophobic maps + him dealing double damage to half my units + him having huge instant AoE or MAP skills that don't trigger Dragon Spirit + my unit's AI being unexpectedly conservative + him having higher speed on said units able to deal tons of double-damage AoE = What did you seriously expect?

Shit happens.

Actually, I thought that his team having Dark Healing all around was the clincher.  Your Knights just weren't doing enough damage, and they're close range melee.  So you're out ranged pretty severely.  This team makes Kotetsu look overpowered.  The Mediators are pretty fragile though, and Undead.  So any manner of Raise 2 teams will probably decimate this team severely.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Lowering your MA won't affect Cure healing that greatly.  Just run Best between the Knights and the Oracles.   Max HP with either Unyielding or Magic Defense UP is probably necessary for that kind of strategy, as weakening your Faith will send your Zombie hit rate down the shitter.  I was more commenting on the fact your Paladins should run Item or Punch Art so they can bring back the Oracles.  Your Oracles have far lower max HP, so enemy AI will prioritize killing them if it can... so you'll not want to pin all your comeback hopes on them, considering they're also the cornerstone of all your offense. 

If you're wondering, this was also part of my problem against Squidgy in the first game - the two units I actually cared about had the highest HP and the map was terrible for this matchup, so my Paladins focused on the wrong units.  Their healing wasn't a big deal, though... downing his Mediators within a round or sending them to Critical was easy when I was able to mount an offense.  Problem is, when the enemy is hitting half your units for 300 Area damage and whittling down the rest of your units, you don't get to sit on the offense for long.  (It also didn't help that Jump/Chivalry both have such excessive JP costs I could barely buy any skills, meaning no Consecration...)   The large map might have been different if there had been room to move, but Murond is still essentially a bottleneck with barely any usable space despite the time it takes for the teams to meet, so it may as well have been two small maps fought on.  Like I said, matchups + shit happens.

[Barren]

FFT Arena 1.337 Barren (Phantasy Star) vs Eternal248 (Samurai Zealots)

FFT Arena 1.337 RavenOfRazgriz (Viper Harem Ending) vs formerdeathcorps (STFU)

FFT Arena 1.337 formerdeathcorps (Ordo De Veras) vs Dol (Heartbreakers)

FFT Arena 1.337 AeroGP (Night Warriors) vs True Light (Spiral of Dreams)

[doriantoki]

spoiler: Phantasy Star vs. Samurai Zealots

Interesting strategy with the Faith inflicting Samurai, but it didn't pay off.  Berserk units act like total tards, it's a shame.

spoiler: Viper vs. STFU

Quickening doesn't seem to be set to target, or to follow target, and when the Chemist casts it and moves, it will hit an empty space.  Better team dynamic on larger map.  FDC has advantage on small maps.  That Mediator was a victim is placement second round, since she didn't de-petrify that Chemist.

spoiler: Ordo vs. Heartbreakers

Singing with Silence, seems kind of funny, doesn't it?  How does one sing when they are silent?  Hehe.