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Scryer Job Discussion (New Format on Front Page!)

Started by LastingDawn, November 16, 2008, 02:24:41 pm

LastingDawn

November 16, 2008, 02:24:41 pm Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 09:06:17 am by LastingDawn
Scryer, Students of Latent Potency

Current Status: 75% Complete

(It is still absent of a sprite)

The Scryer replaces the Chemist, but completely changes their roles. Only keeping versions of the original chemists skills in three of their moves, and two unique and important items one can retrieve are the Faith Blessing's Rune and Fury's Strength Rune, which are the only ways to raise Permanant Fury and Faith, and their JP cost will be quite a bit. (This goes without saying, don't use it on Gafgarion!) As you can guess these will be two extremely rare items, which you just won't find anywhere. And since it's a 50/50 chance of working, it is probably best to use them only in Sub-Missions you know you'll have no trouble with, it's inadvisable to use them for any strategic use. But without further ado, the specs of the Scryer.

QuoteWith the fade out of traditional magic a century prior, the Glabados Faith attempted to seize the field of magic by storm, readying many doctrines to stop the traditional magic practices, should they ever come to the forefront once more. They were challenged by a hitherto unknown group called "The Apophis" an ancient group that used unfamiliar magic. They would have quickly been labeled Heretics, if they weren't protected by certain members of the parliament of the time. The church had to fall back and rethink their current strategy.

 The Apophis spread schools of a unique art called "Scrying", the students of these schools created many different runes of varying and miraculous powers. The practice flourished for years with many common folk making their living as Runics (those who create the stones) and Scryers. Many of the Scryers earned their livings well, healing the sick and enrolling in the town defense forces of the period. Though there were some who abused their powers, doing such despicable acts as enslaving a village and forcing the people to create Runes for them, this group of Scryers were called "The Streetears", their name was said to come from a grand city of the Golden Age of Ivalice.

   The church now had all it needed to justify a "Heretic Hunt". The Streetears were slaughtered to the last man, the people freed and they were subsequently celebrated by the church, their testimony made famous, and the country sympathized with them. It was only a matter of time before the people themselves were raging over the Scryers, this little flame turned into an engulfing inferno. The Runics abandoned their Scryers and the Scryers weren't able to mount an offensive. Many Scryers submitted to the church bringing with them a number of Runics. They were brought to live in Murond and their very descendants occupy a small section of the Holy Place.

Most of the Scryers fled to other shores, some fleeing to Romanda and Ordalia, others making it as far as the Land of Oracles and beyond. Runics are forbidden in Ivalice, but their runes still make it onto many market places. As people have little use for them, they often give them away as trinkets. Parting or homecoming gifts are the most common time they are seen. Scryers in recent days have made a come back in the public eye. They were assisting Ivalice in the tail end of the Fifty Years War, to check the enemy Scryers. The job of Runic though is still held a monopoly by the Glabados Faith. The High Confessor Funeral does not seem content to allow them to openly spread the knowledge of their craft.

Stats of the Scryer



Innate: Toss Rune

3 Move
3 Jump

Equipment Options










Scryer's Skills
QuotePotion - Body Rune (Recover's 50 HP)

Hi Potion - Adept Rune (MA * MA /2)

X Potion - Balance Rune (PA /2 * MA)

Ether - Mind Rune (Restores 30 MP)

Hi Ether - Deepening Rune (Damages the target for how much HP they have lost)

Elixir - "Prestige Rune" "Activating the power within this Rune calls forth a surge of power, that courses through the body, leaving the holder's mind and body stronger then before." (Raises Level + 1, also applies M-Barrier)

Antidote - Beast Rune (Random Slow, Sleep, Don't Move, Poison)

Eye Drop - Vitality Rune (Regen)

Echo Grass - Hide Rune (Transparent, Don't Move, Defend)

Maiden's Kiss - Wall Rune (Protect, Shell)

Soft - Freedom Rune (Cancel Don't Move, Don't Act, Sleep, Stop, Petrify)

Holy Water - Blessed Rune (Same exact thing as Holy Water)

Remedy - Faith's Rune (50% to raise Faith by 10 for that battle, +2 Permanant)

Phoenix Down - Fury's Rune(50% to raise Fury by 10 for that battle, +2 Permanant)
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

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Archael

November 16, 2008, 02:30:19 pm #1 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
make items do damage or status?

change the chemist job role?

Jacob31593

November 16, 2008, 02:31:54 pm #2 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Jacob31593
get rid of items all together and make the chemist job more into the alchemist of the FMA universe :)

Cheetah

November 16, 2008, 03:21:17 pm #3 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Cheetah
Take a look at the other FF games and the diversity of items they have there. Like Jacob said have an Alchemist job class. Have items that do fire, water, lightening, ect low damage spells. Make the items really expensive though so that is how you balance them instead of using mp. Have a potion that causes poison, or other status effects. Though do note that getting rid of chemist at the beginning will make early game much harder without any way to raise people.
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Slim_Sephy

November 16, 2008, 06:29:42 pm #4 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Slim_Sephy
Replace Chemist with an Apprentice type job.
Just throwing it out there, I haven't thought about it alot.

philsov

November 16, 2008, 07:36:11 pm #5 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
this is topic 1337.  Just thought I'd point that out.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

LastingDawn

November 16, 2008, 09:20:55 pm #6 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
That is quite the point Cheetah, Lavian carries you through the early game. After that, either Rad or Ramza might have a job with Raise or... some other skill to help such... hmm, maybe I should put Raise in the Apprentice set.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

dwib

November 16, 2008, 10:36:01 pm #7 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
Revive seems like an ability Apprentice might have over raise. That is just a superficial point of view because of how they look.

LastingDawn

November 16, 2008, 10:37:51 pm #8 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Well, the problem with Revive, is it's an instant raise move, I want Reviving to be a rather... arduous task, something you have to *kind of* think about, to make everything go your way, of course if it could miss... that could work.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Archael

November 16, 2008, 10:42:44 pm #9 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
You can give them a low % chance Revive

they are apprentices, after all

like a first aid type move

you know, a skillset that can do many things unreliable can become powerful later on as a secondary (look at vanilla or 1.3 talk skill)

dwib

November 16, 2008, 10:46:09 pm #10 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
Hmm the arduous part of Revive though is that it has a range of only 1 though. You could also slap on a moderate MP cost... but that would be unfortunate for the actual Monk class.

LastingDawn

November 16, 2008, 10:46:28 pm #11 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Yes, but Apprentice is Rad's class in case people had forgotten, and he has his amateurish moves in his beginning Red Magic. I would like to keep the Chemist class, regardless of what it becomes as the consumable user, but there's a bit more of an interesting way to do this... The "item" to be consumed doesn't need to be a generic consumable, let's say you consume a... Mythril Sword to give yourself Protect, or some sort. Things could be a bit more unique.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

DarthPaul

November 16, 2008, 10:52:01 pm #12 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by darthpaul
Possibly make the items do damage like bombs and have items that have a chance of causing a status ailment.
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die

dwib

November 16, 2008, 10:56:59 pm #13 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
Consuming equips sounds like a good idea, as it would make item usage considerably more expensive.

How about Stat-Up items?
Throw something to Ramza... Ramza's PA +1.

LastingDawn

November 16, 2008, 11:14:49 pm #14 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Hmm... especially if things were in very limited quantity... of course that would mean that you would only recieve a not so ample supply of such, and we have no idea if the AI knows how to use it, that would be the large test.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Skip Sandwich

November 16, 2008, 11:15:49 pm #15 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Skip Sandwich
that would be cool, but currently, the effect is determined by the item, and not the skill that calls the item, so the only way to have an item cast protect, would be to set the skill to use an item that casts protect. What I'd like to see is if someone could figure out a way for items that reference WP in thier formulas to use the item's WP and not the WP of the unit's equiped weapon, much the way that Throw currently works, this way it'd allow for more precisely tweekable 'bomb' type items, using say the gun formula or somesuch.

here's a sample revised item set that should be possible using only FFTPatcher, that replaces all the item effects with offensive ones.

Potion--> Firecracker: Deals MA/2 * MA fire-elemental damage, may inflict Blind
Hi-Potion--> Toxin: Deals MA/2 * MA water-elemental damage, may inflict Poison
X-Potion--> Portable Hole/Beartrap: Deals MA/2 * MA earth-elemental damage, may inflict Don't Move
Antidote--> Copper Needle: Deals MA/2 * MA thunder-elemental damage, may inflict Don't Act
Echo Grass--> Goblin Fan: Deals MA/2 * MA wind-elemental damage, may inflict Silence
Eye Drops--> Snow Globe: Deals MA/2 * MA ice-elemental damage, may inflict Slow
Pheniox Down--> Silver Dart: Deals MA/2 * MA holy-elemental damage, may inflict Faith
Soft--> Cursed Nail: Deals MA/2 * MA dark-elemental damage, may inflict Death Sentence
Maiden's Kiss--> Gorgon's Head: Deals MA/2 * MA non-elemental damage, may inflict Petrify
Remedy--> Pandora's Box: inflicts random positive and negative status, 100% accurate.
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Disco_Peach

November 17, 2008, 10:14:18 am #16 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Disco_Peach
Well, this is exactly what I did with my Alchemist class in Horrid Disarray (not what Skip Sandwich said so much). My Alchemist class uses the Item skillset (Alchemy) and uses items with tweaked functions (functions in the sense of use, not math).

I always thought that the Chemist class was too broken in FFT. And that the Squire sucked balls in comparison. So, what did I do? Make a Soldier and Medic class that both sucked balls. These classes are base classes that make you want to level up in order to get the good job classes. My Medic class is a very varied (but limited) healer and the Soldier is much like the Squire (though I decided to keep the "Squire" class (instead of the Soldier class) for much more practical purposes, which I will divulge later on in my Horrid Disarray topic). Also, the Chemist can equip a gun. Too broken. My suggestion, since you don't want to eliminate the Chemist class altogether and create an Alchemist class, is that you can keep the Chemist class, yet balance its Item set. Not all items should heal, but not all items should hurt. That way it's more strategic. You gotta decide what to do in your turn. It also gives the Chemist a little more power. Remember, if you have an Oracle-esque class, if you give any other class the power to do so many varied status changes, then why have an Oracle-esque class in the first place? Just balance it. Healing items as well as problem items ;).

LastingDawn

November 17, 2008, 11:44:30 am #17 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Well Healing items is a problem in my opinion from the get go.
Do I
A: Use Wish (an instant heal) to assure my other character doesn't die.
B: Use Cure and hope for the best
C: Throw a potion and forget about the perhaps logical process, from the other two.

In my opinion items that heal take away a bit, it lends too much of a crutch for enemy and ally alike.

Oracles are still special in that their skills can hit multiple enemies while these items would only hit a single enemy. Also the item suggestions from Skip Sandwish are more Geomancy based then Oracle based, in this case, I do agree though that they should buff and debuff though, if items are Only retrieved in Very limited supply... that could increase their worth and usefulness. Now, as you two have had a bit more experience with such is there anyway for Items to have a % to hit?
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Lydyn

November 17, 2008, 12:59:50 pm #18 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Lydyn
Not that I know of LD. =( When I changed Chemists to Alchemists in Shuushin, all the items had 100% status ... which is why I ended up making them the hardest class to get, since 100% is so broken. You can't change the formulas of the skills obviously and I'm not sure you can change the formulas for the items either. You'd be better off ask Zodiac if one can ASM hack item formulas.

Skip Sandwich's suggestions are great, but I've no clue how you'd even do that. I didn't see any item formulas other than Heal(Z*10), HealMP(Z*10), Remove Status, Remove Status, Heal (1-X), and HealAll.

Edit: Nevermind! Apparently the formula list for items is the same as the ability formula list. Then this is totally possible.

Havermayer

November 17, 2008, 02:58:23 pm #19 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Havermayer
I was thinking about something like this as well.  I was thinking of giving everyone the item ability, but powering down items a lot.  There's a few ways that you can do this:

- Limited amount of items.  Either have a max of ten items each in-battle.  You can stock 99 or more of them outside of battle (so you don't have to keep buying more).
- Less useful.  Phoenix Down doesn't work 100% of the time.  Potions are half as effective.
- Chemists are the only ones who can use items as effectively as they are in regular FFT.  Learning item abilities (eg. Phoenix Down) allows you to use them normally.
- Chemists can have more than 10 items in battle.  How much, I'm not sure.  
- Chemists can have a main skill like "Drink" or "mix" (like in FF5).  

Doing this, Chemists could be a really powerful class.  But, they might outshine White Mages (who should be the main healers).  So they could be powered down even more.  Perhaps remove the double effectiveness of items?

Here's an overview of Chemists in various FF games to give you some ideas:
http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/chemist.shtml