Community Patch effort

[Xifanie]

I'd remove Blade Grasp for Samurai for now.

No idea why you want to remove monster skill, it's there, and doesn't harm. IIRC not all monsters doesn't require MS anymore.

[Asmo X]

A few questions...

Gained Jp Up should be removed from regular units and Ramza, right?
Should Job Level Requirements be boosted like in v1.2? Should the Jp to reach each JL stay the same?

How would you guys feel if I removed abilities from the game, like Monster Skill (most can use their Monster Skill), Blade Grasp, or Quick?

I'd be more than happy to see the really overpowered skills get the boot. I'm not terribly fond of Blade Grasp.

The following are personal preferences that I don't expect to see wide agreement with but I'd like to see Move 2 and 3 get the boot and see a couple of select classes have their innate move go beyond 4. Also, redundant skills are a constant source of ire for me. The terrain skills sort of fall into this category as does Ignore Height.

Ideally these moves could be replaced with something else but it sounds like you can't really just cook up a bunch of new movement and support skills. Doesn't matter though. If a skill is pointless, no reason to have it linger about.

Re Bard w/silence. Its not a huge thing, I just thought it would be an amusing addition for a class that Sings. Obviously more work than that needs to be done to the Bard and Dancer.

Similar with the Oracle. It could be immune to blind/darkness. Then you could have one or two awesome rods that are always: darkness to stop that pesky Squire from getting its hands on them.

[Xifanie]

Chocobo -> Awesome Mounts.

Really I want it to be useful to mount a chocobo... not just for some status immunity/curing. Even worse, it nullifies the Movement skill.

You can easily go past 6 Move with a human.

Chocobos should be made to be tamed, not to be killing machines.

How about something like:

Yellow
6 Move
5 Jump

Black
Easy navigation in water
7 Move
3 Jump
Doesn't fly anymore

Red
9 Move
2 Jump

Basically, yellow would be for maps with high tiles, black for taking advantage of water maps and rivers, and red for the others.

Each being useful for something and having powerful mount capabilities.

[VincentCraven]

I guess I just wanted to clean up the Monster Skills. It's really nothing more than that. Useless, or near useless, skills are just kinda... icky. The game really won't be affected one way or another.

Hey, if I removed move+2 and move+3, I could make Chocobos much more useful than they are now. Of course, Teleport still gets one where he wants to go, but whatever. I liked the flying mounts, but a flying mount really does overshadow all other types of mounts. Red Chocobo did have Ignore Height, but I don't think that was exploited very much. Forgot about this whole aspect. Not sure I agree about the 9 move Chocobo...

Next time you have your Ninja walk half way across the board with his 8 move, ask yourself, "Why?"

Now keep that in mind before telling me to keep move+3 or move+2. Needless to say, I recant my 7 jump Lancers.

[Asmo X]

Well why not give the Yellow Chocobo ignore height and the Red 8 move. If you have to ride it for the advantage, 8 move seems fair.

[Argg0]

The Quickening? It doesn't require Math Skill.

Really? How could you do that effectively?

Mobility hardly ever will beat the loss of one unit.

[VincentCraven]

How about this?

Yellow:
6 Move
6 Jump
Ignore Height

Black:  
6 Move
2 Jump
Walk on Water (Ninja's ability)

Red:
8 Move
2 Jump

An alternative for Black could be 4 Move and Fly.
[Edit: Teleport, Fly, and Ignore Height cannot be bought at the Human's JP store]

But seriously, movement bonus is going to be much more highly valued. People probably still will forgo the mobility that a Chocobo can give, but oh well.

I suppose it [Quickening] is too difficult to pull off without Math Skill for it to be a threat. I'm at a loss for an effective way to execute it w/o mathskill. I was thinking of a Geomancy/Chakra combination on high HP characters, but at that point, it's so complicated that I guess I'll have to leave the option open.

[Xifanie]

I'd prefer 9 Move for the Red. It's only advantage is rushing in so I think it's better that no human can match it.

[VincentCraven]

9 move may be acceptable.

But if I remove move+2 and move+3, humans can't touch this.

[Xifanie]

Magic, Archers, Long range abilities.

There's plenty of stuff to take down someone running away on a chobobo. It will just be harder.

And I doubt a 9move & 2jump chocobo is worst than a 8move & 5jump ninja.

[Chrona]

Goin off for the night, so cya tomorrow people

One more thing I was going to suggest - There should still be the Chicken weapon just for fun, and Nagrarok should be boosted a little in WP but still retain Frog, and be easier to find earlier on. Imagine, two swords Nagrarok + Chickenwhatever, if it would be possible XD

[VincentCraven]

Magic, Archers, Long range abilities.

There's plenty of stuff to take down someone running away on a chobobo. It will just be harder.

And I doubt a 9move & 2jump chocobo is worst than a 8move & 5jump ninja.

Touché. And maybe we'll finally see Chocobos in the battlefield.
Does Throw still use the human's range if he is mounted?

And I'll certainly consider having a Chicken Sword. It will replace on of the other swords of course, but we have plenty to choose from.

[Asmo X]

I'll trust the judgement of others on the 9 mv issue.

So who would actually consider riding a chocobo under this new scheme? Or is Argg0 right about it not being worth the loss of another character?

Oh yeah, about 2 swords: I always felt that should be its use rather than raw power; doubling the activation chance of weapon status effects.

[VincentCraven]

Anyone who misses their 7 or 8 move will be able to redeem it by riding a Chocobo. Even then, there still can be 5 move units with Teleport.

I guess the only people who will use this are those who like using Knights or Samurai with Gauntlets and need to transport their powerhouse around the battlefield. A Knight with a Bracer now will only be able to get a max move of 4, so a 9 move Chocobo may be tempting. I never really cared too much for Move+X abilities myself, but whatever. I might even remove Jump+2/3 and Ignore Height, but that seems to be a bit much...

[Asmo X]

Anyone who misses their 7 or 8 move will be able to redeem it by riding a Chocobo. Even then, there still can be 5 move units with Teleport.

I guess the only people who will use this are those who like using Knights or Samurai with Gauntlets and need to transport their powerhouse around the battlefield. A Knight with a Bracer now will only be able to get a max move of 4, so a 9 move Chocobo may be tempting. I never really cared too much for Move+X abilities myself, but whatever. I might even remove Jump+2/3 and Ignore Height, but that seems to be a bit much...

That's true. I'd strongly consider using a chocobo if Mv 2 and 3 were removed. In fact it looks like a better and better idea the more I think about it.

Why too much? As I said earlier, it's no use being sentimental about useless moves. If you know, intellectually, that they are dead weight don't stop yourself from getting rid of them. They are totally overshadowed by teleport after all which also continues to slightly dim the appeal of chocobo riding. A bold move might be getting rid of teleport instead but now we're heading into Heresy Town. Dare I suggest it be innate to some class? Don't mind me, I'm just brainstorming.

[VincentCraven]

Heresy Town indeed!

But seriously, I actually tried that back before philsov released his version. It works nicely if the unit has 0-2 move. Who'd get it though, Time Mage? That'd be a great reason to use it over Wizard. I'll wait until I get more feedback on that idea before I implement it. This is a community patch after all...

Maybe remove fly too, and have only Move+1, Jump+1, and Ignore Height? Jump+1 would only be good for vertical jumping, but that is good enough for me to consider it. Of course, beautiful skills like Move-HP Up, Move-MP Up, Float, any Ground, etc. are still available for the movement slot.

[Asmo X]

2 move sounds fine. Even if you add red shoes and mv+1 it only has an 80% chance of matching a lower chocobo for movement. The Ignore Height part is what sells it. I think it's decently balanced but we'll see what some others think.

Any reason to have both Ignore Height and Jump+1? How about Move +1, Ignore Height and Fly?

[karsten]

Karsten:
So where did you find that Short Charge makes a berserk unit act quicker? I'm not seeing that in the BMG.

short charge make your action flag switch on when your CT reaches 80, not 100. or you might say that it makes you calculated speed faster ie 10 speed becomes 12.5 speed (10/0.. it is written somewhere around the BMG.

[Argg0]

short charge make your action flag switch on when your CT reaches 80, not 100. or you might say that it makes you calculated speed faster ie 10 speed becomes 12.5 speed (10/0.8 ).. it is written somewhere around the BMG.

I searched in all BMG and found no such info... <_<

[VincentCraven]

Fly overrides Ignore Height, but hey, ya know...

I'm leaning more toward a 1 move Time Mage with Teleport myself. It may suffer a loss elsewhere for this, but we'll see. I'll remove Ignore Height, maybe making it innate on Lancer, and then the only way to get a real good move ability is to go for Bard/Dancer and pay ~1000Jp for it. Flawless.

Hooray for Chocobos.

I'll try to balance jobs and equipment and touch up the skillsets within the next two days. No promises, but I think I'll be able to e-mail the patch to all who would like to test it by Wednesday. After that, I'll probably not work on any of this until the weekend, by the looks of it.

[Edit: Will hotlink, not e-mail]