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FFTA: Rebalanced

Started by ffta707, December 11, 2010, 01:11:55 am

ffta707

Post your Ideas for ffta rebalanced in here. Chances are, your Idea will be put into rebalanced.


Thank you.

The following are created by gotwald. This post will be updated with proposals, however, a change log of the actual project will be added later.

Special Jobs


Since the assassin is being removed from the player arsenal, it can be made into a special and powerful enemy only job! Increased growths, more equipments options, possibly double sword, maybe innate maintinence... Suddenly you have a very tough enemy which can be added into boss fights against you! Won't be everywhere, but definitly will be on the home stretch (with Llednar.)

Level

The suggestion has been made to use the average levels of your 6 best party members to determine the levels of the enemies. While this is a good suggestion, it leaves people the ability to only use Marche and be able to curb stomp the game that would be many levels below him.


Another idea would be to make the the enemies the highest character level of the party. This could work, except if one character levels above another, you can soon see that there will be a strength disparity. Fortunatly, this isn't all bad, as the xp bonuses for fighting stuff above your level are substantial, meaning that you would be able to catch up with your lower levels rather quickly.

Equipment


Equipment seems to be set on every enemy in the game; there is never any variation, which would lead me to assume that equipment will not get better with level. This means that equipment would have to be set. However, instead of facing guys with broad swords at the end of the game, we can set enemies to have much better and more synergistic gear. In fact, we can even set enemies to have AMAZINGLY over powered gear, and then just slap maintinence on them so that the player can't have access, making a stronger enemy.

This topic is about removing skills from the players arsenal which are overpowered and can be abused to make the game pretty much unfair.

Current ideas for skill removal include:

-Damage MP

Reason:

AI cannot see reactions, and this will allow you to absorb countless attacks and be almost invincible due to MP regening.

-Two swords

Reason:

Removal pending, if it can be innate added to ninja's then this will be removed as an ability but still usable on ninja's.

-Turbo MP

Reason:

Due to bad MP scaling, this ability is the only ability chosen by mages and increases the effects of magic to astronomical heights. If we did some number crunching, we might be able to make this work, but for now, it's on this list.

-Reflex

Reason:

The AI cannot see reaction until they attack them, so the AI will always waste a turn attacking the character with this ability, even though it says 0%, giving the player a free turn ALONG with the proteciton from regular attacks; if this can be fixed, this ability can go back to the player.

-Strikeback

Reason:

Same as reflex, but it is SOOOOO GOOODDD that the player can't have no matter what.

-Ultima (all)

Reason:

This skill is too powerful, as it allows you to deal more damage than the boss of the game and currently cannot be balanced for the player.

-Doublecast

Reason:

This skill is also overpowered. It allows you to attack two different players at once (Two groups of players), or just deal plain damage to one enemy. IMO, the skill should be weakened, like double shots formula.


These skills will still be present in the game, but they will not be useable by the player. For example, you may fight an enemy who has Damage MP and two swords, but you will not be able to use them yourself.


If you have anything with this you would like to discuss, such as that one of the skills on this list should not be removed or another you would like to add, please post.

GeneralStrife

Viera is my favorite race, can't think about making assassin into something else?

Kagebunji

Vieras as Dancers would work very well, hehe.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

ffta707

Quote from: "GeneralStrife"Viera is my favorite race, can't think about making assassin into something else?

Any proposals on how to balance them. I'm sure if we lower the percents of the ability hitting, and remove concentrate, it would work.

Kourama

I don't see double cast / summon here on your list. Another broken yet powerful combo on FFTA.

ffta707

Quote from: "Kourama"I don't see double cast / summon here on your list. Another broken yet powerful combo on FFTA.

Added.

Legionofdrake

I missed a lot.
I come back to the site after like a year, and we got this. Alright :D
The level idea is good. The second idea of course.

Kourama

I'm not sure Doublecast itself is overpowered, but Doublecast with Summon is overpowered. If you can limit which spells can be used with Doublecast it wouldn't be as strong, kind of like how they nerfed Magic Frenzy + Blue Magic in FFTA2.

Gotwald

Double cast with turbo MP is strong. Double cast with summon is still strong, but not nearly as strong without turbo MP. If we could limit double cast to red magic and elementalist spells it would work really well. For now though, removing turbo MP makes the spells much more within the balanced range.
-- Attention Citizens, this is the Computer. 2 + 2 now equals 3.9999238849009985. Please recalibrate your equipment.

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theultrawolf

I think there should stronger laws. idk, I always personally thought the laws were never strict enough towards the end of the game, and were much too easy to walk around, as well as law cards/antilaws able to eliminate entire ranks was a bit overdone. for instance, instead of a law set like haste/blades/berserk, there should be harder ones such as Dmg:2 Human/NoClrMagic/Healing. just a thought
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL

theultrawolf

here's a myriad of random thoughts that one or two hopefully can be implemented:


-unnerf red mage/ magic? Their skills are way too weak, but i agree with the doublecast motif. a better solution would to only let red mages cast only red magic in their doublecast net of spells.
-make the final boss + 2 mateus-s much more difficult, with 999 hp.
-break the level limit to 99 if possible?
-give spells a charge time if possible?
-introduce ultima as it was in fft: weak easy to cast low mp moderate damage spell in the blue mage category.
-give enemies access to combos/totemas.
-lower unit capacity on map from 6 to 5, like in fft.
-take out the illusionist and replace it with something more support oriented like a chemist from ffv.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL

Grand Arcana

Hey, I just registered, but I've lurked for ages. FFTA was my first Tactics game, and one of my first Final Fantasies, so it's got a special place in my heart. Unfortunately, I've neither the skills nor the tools to mod (yet!), but I've considered the following changes, amongst others:

    Buffing Doublehand. It's terrible outclassed by Weapon Atk+.
    Nerf Sonicboom
    Nerf Concentrate
    Marche's initial stats could stand to be better rounded. He's only really good as a Paladin, but makes for a weaksause mage. He's also fairly slow.
    Tone down the strength of high tier 1handed weapons (Nagranok, Excalibur 2, Ebon Blade)
    Buffing armor
    Expand Llednar's moveset(s)
    If possible, allow special characters (Babus, Judge Cid, ect.) to use generic jobs. If it isn't possible, than expand their moveset(s) to reflect the generic classes they're emulating (Cid=Paladin, Babus=Sage, Ezel=Alchemist/Illusionist).
    Some Blue Magic can use some changing. Goblin Punch is nigh useless, perhaps it could work like Shock? Hastebreak could use more range, and Dragon Force should lose the Defense and Resistance buff since it outclasses Mighty Guard. S-Flare could be a 3 range, 0AoE, Dark elemental spell, instead or that crazy thing its got going on.

Augestein

Alright, I'll take a shot at it. I haven't played this game in a long time, but I'll try to go off of what I can remember.

*Moogles: Need stat buffs in general. Besides the infamous Gunner/Mog Knight, I can't think of much else that these guys can do that's useful besides support, and they aren't really needed for that, as other classes like Blue Mage and Elementalist can do that as well, while not sacrificing raw attack power.
-Smile needs to cost MP, like 20 MP. So that way you can't powerlevel 2 moogles to level 50 the minute you get the ability and thus, kill any form of difficulty that could be obtained over the course of the game. Actually, Juggler's should have to cost MP for their stuff. Why do they get all of these amazing status effects and decent damage for no MP? Because it's single target? I don't think so.
- Machinist: needs to either get an entire moveset revamp, or needs to change the way it works. It's bad enough that it's 50% chance of buffing or inflicting status effects on the entire team. Does it really need to help the other team out on failure? It just makes the entire moveset stupid. When the computer uses it, if it fails, congrats, you just won. The only way to get any use out of it is to make your teams immune to whatever status effects you plan on using, and with Concentrate + Status effects, there's no need for this moveset. At all.

*Viera: Besides the already mentioned, the Viera classes in general need to be a bit slower. Most of them are pretty darn fast, and the only class that's really slow is the Summoner, and even then, it'll still be faster than a lot of people because it's probably a hybrid summoner.
- Ribbon/barette needs to protect against less status effects or something needs to be made so that other classes can be immune to a ton of status effects like them.
- Can Red Mage at least learn to 2 level spells and then have DoubleCast only work with Red Magic? You could offset this by making the second tier spells only able to be learned much later (like when the Wizard/Black Mage classes have their 3rd tier spells).
- Need to lose Concentrate as a race. It's too powerful for them.

* Human: For the most part, humans are fine in terms of growths. Except the Black Mage. It needs a buff, because I remember the White Mage strictly having better growths than the Black Mage. Either that, or the White Mage needs a growth nerf.
- Hunting needs to be nerfed to only 3 or 5 JP when you kill something. It's stupid that you can have two hunters, use a Totema, pick it off with Hunting with both of them and then finish it off with another Totema and still have Hunter 2 still have 10 JP for the next battle.
- Sonic Boom needs to be nerfed hard. It's way too powerful. Just because this really does need to be mentioned multiple times.
- Double Sword needs to be innate on Ninja. It's stupid that it isn't.
- Veils need a buff, or should be both physical and magic based. Their damage is abysmal and they don't inflict the status effects on with enough consistency to make them worth using. Throw, as usual sucks. Get rid of it and make it something else if you can.
- Marche needs to be more well-rounded. I'd say make him start with average hp, slightly above average MP, high attack, low defense, high mag.attack, low mag.defense, and above average speed. So he's a bit of a glass cannon. It sort of makes sense from a storyline perspective too.

*Nu Mou: Growths are fine, I suppose they could use a "speed" class as well.
- Morpher: Needs to be rebalanced in the fact that it's entirely overpowered or underpowered. There's no medium to it. I'd wager you might want to change this class completely, as the computer is unable to make use of it, making it even more strange... And FFTA2 seems to agree with that because it's gone there as well.

*Bangaa: Bishop needs a bit more magic growth I suppose. I don't really have much to complain about with Bangaa growths.
- Expert Guard needs to be rebalanced. Putting a law that makes the comp break it + berserk + standing there and taking no damage from it is ridiculous.

- In general: Steal Gil needs to become something else. It's lame and never useful and makes the computer act stupid by using this. Maybe it should change to "Steal Sanity" for confusion or something. It makes sense for a thief to have a confusion skill anyways to aid in stealing.
- Maybe make something where you can change Marche's race? That might be cool, as having a forced hume at moments is kind of annoying.
-Computer needs to get stronger skills when it levels as well as equipment.
- Special characters should be able to switch classes. Otherwise they are really just glorified waste of spaces.
- Antilaws are fine, but laws that put on extra laws are stupid. Fight Law Card + Berserk wins the vast majority of randoms, and certain clans can be dismantled by one law. And certain fights like the 2nd Totema can be cheated to death by having charm be against the law (although that's more so because you can walk around until it's against the law). Totally unfair for the computer.
- Computer always needs to have the same amount of enemies as you have allies or more. I noticed that a lot of the time enemies have 5 while you have 6. Weird and kind of stupid, as you are clearly stronger than them.

MysticKnightFF5

I suggest removing the law system...it was never a good idea.
Also, any way to add in a character naming UI? The lack of imagination bored me.

formerdeathcorps

January 10, 2011, 05:19:25 am #14 Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 04:44:44 pm by formerdeathcorps
Conceptual Problems:

1) Laws/Antilaws
2) Units not dying unless on Jagds
3) Kiddie Storyline
4) Story enemies do not level up with you.
5) Chocobos exist in world, but not as monsters.
6) 3 Archer classes
7) Physical/Mage Class Duality broken on Viera for no reason (Fencer --> Red Mage)
8) Equips aren't too different from each other.
9) Morphers cannot function as a stand-alone class.  I'd rather see usable monsters.
10) Red Mage doesn't really stand out.  I'd rather see FFTA2's Green Mage.
11) Special classes do not allow class change.
12) Hurl and Throw is redundant.  While we're on the subject, why should non-projectile shaped weapons (like instruments) even be thrown?
13) Silence/Addle is redundant.
14) Needs a M-Wall status (all magic attacks deal maximum of 1 damage), simply for parity with Wall on Flans and Turtles.

Macro Play Problems:

1) Elite late-game weapons are too easy to get and are broken.
2) Totema attacks are broken, as is ganging up/ultima attacks.
3) Juggler needs MP costs, badly.
4) Machinist's abilities are too risky.  Fuse it with Illusionist.
5) Steal anything other equipment or skills (or maybe JP, if we're keeping that) is useless.
6) EXP farming is possible without even having to fight.  Repeatable bar props aren't a good idea.
7) Mogs are too weak in general.  All other races are fine.
8) Evasion needs to have more variance.

Micro Play Problems:

1) Concentrate overrides blind and boosts status attacks.
3) MP Switch does not allow carryover damage.
4) Turbo MP works well on damage mages and is near useless on status mages.  Not to mention, it allows crazy amounts of power.
5) Counter reacts to any attempt at attacking in range.
6) Blue Mage skillset is large, somewhat redundant, and OP.
7) Reflex sets all physical attack attempts to 0%.  Please use FFT's abandon instead or at least put a speed check.
8) Strikeback is a preemptive counter at 100%.
9) Doublecast allows two casts at once.  Please halve the effectiveness of the second attack.
10) Sonicboom needs a MP cost.  So does Beso Toxico, Charm Shot, Fast Shot, or any attack that does (boosted) damage + status.  Please restore Charm to FFT norms as well.
11) Conceal status allows units to come arbitrarily close to the enemy.  It should end naturally after X turns.
12) Ninja Viels are useless.

Disagreements:

1) Removing Viera Assassin seems unnecessary.  Their skillset is nowhere as bad as the FFT variant, and to be honest, it's by no means the most broken unit (crap HP growth is a problem).  Just lower some hit chances, and they should be fine.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

MountainDew~

I'll be honest, I've only played through this game twice, once with an ENTIRE team of assassins, concentrate+last breath cheesing my way through everything, then just nailing the bosses with Ultima Masher. The other time I was a group of Hunter+Pally/White skillsets, ultima'ing my way through all of it. I like the removal of assassins and ultima, that's all just too good for me to use versus a sub-par AI that can't even tell when I'm using reflex.

The entire moogle race sucks with every job, their only saving grace is gunner+mog knight. Juggler's are good, but I can't stand the facepaint and sprite so I never use it.

-The Mog Knights were incredibly weak, but they had monster defense.
   -The downside to this was that I didn't need a High defense character when I could just blow through the entire thing with faster or farther moving  characters that had somewhat decent attack (Fighters, Gladiators, Hunters, Assassins, etc.).

-Their black mage class had the worst MP/Mag attack growths of all the Black mages, no access to the illusionist class, and their time mage class was pointless when Humans had that AND a good magic attack side class to put on with it.

I like what I see :)


  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • Discord username: Holographic #1363

Pata Hikari

I love FFTA and would love to see a rebalancing hack that makes things better. But you know what?

Removing things strikes me as pretty lame.

Assassins:. They're powerful because they're fast, and their instant kill abilities are too accurate. Rather then remove the class, balance it out. Reduce the class's speed, reduce the accuracy of their skills. Im think that, a good baseline might want to make it that any rebalancing done would make it that with Concentrate they would be as accurate (if not slightly less) as they are in the current game with concentrate.

Turbo MP: This can be balanced out simply by increasing the amount of MP used. So if double MP is too little for the boost given, then triple MP, etc.

Reflex, Strikeback: both these skills are effected by magic and special attacks still. Increase the presence of these enemies.

Doublecast/Dualweild/Ultima: You know what? Some abilities should be powerful. Each of these are gotten from rare equipment, with 999 AP cost. What should be done is that there should be battles that need abilities this powerful. In the game normally these are overkill. Basically, the post game should have challenges that throw this sort of crazy stuff at you.

Augestein

Quote from: Pata Hikari on February 06, 2011, 10:23:34 pm
I love FFTA and would love to see a rebalancing hack that makes things better. But you know what?

Removing things strikes me as pretty lame.

Assassins:. They're powerful because they're fast, and their instant kill abilities are too accurate. Rather then remove the class, balance it out. Reduce the class's speed, reduce the accuracy of their skills. Im think that, a good baseline might want to make it that any rebalancing done would make it that with Concentrate they would be as accurate (if not slightly less) as they are in the current game with concentrate.

Turbo MP: This can be balanced out simply by increasing the amount of MP used. So if double MP is too little for the boost given, then triple MP, etc.

Reflex, Strikeback: both these skills are effected by magic and special attacks still. Increase the presence of these enemies.

Doublecast/Dualweild/Ultima: You know what? Some abilities should be powerful. Each of these are gotten from rare equipment, with 999 AP cost. What should be done is that there should be battles that need abilities this powerful. In the game normally these are overkill. Basically, the post game should have challenges that throw this sort of crazy stuff at you.


I disagree on the notation that removing things is lame. Some things are just inherently imbalanced. If you are changing something to the point that it's no longer the same, it's essentially removing it.

Assassins are not just powerful because they are fast, and have instant kill abilities that are too accurate. They are powerful, because they are the best class to level up as a Viera, their only real weakness is their low hp, and that doesn't  scale too horribly all things considered, they have instant kill abilities or incredibly lethal status effects, they can be immune to all status effects. They make a great class to carry summon for huge AoEs, and they have a very powerful damaging attack (Ultima) from long range. Actually, they can just out and out use long range. There's no real way to approach them as a computer enemy. As for the concentrate part, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Turbo MP: should just be changed. The idea of it is kinda silly because the damage you get for it is absurd. Tripling the cost still doesn't help too much as you still pretty much OHKO the enemy. It needs to be altered. That's why it's being discussed for removal until then.

Reflex, Strikeback are affected by magic. Too bad the AI is still too dumb to SEE Reflex and Strikeback and mages are known for attacking physically for some odd reason.

Doublecast/Dualwield/Ultima: Doublecast is fine... If it didn't have access to so many spells being used with it. That + Turbo MP is ridiculous. Dualwield isn't just powerful because of its attack... It also effectively doubles your skill learning as well as bumps up your attack.  Ultima is just a bad algorithm used and is a glorified OHKO attack pretty much. Making them cost 999 AP? Um... Doublecast DOES cost that much. It's still overpowered, and it's on rare equipment. Nosada is a pretty rare equipment for dualwield... Might I add that you can still learn other skills while learning Dual-wield? Ultima skills are just too powerful in general. Nerfing would be the best choice for them. But it is a bit lacking in the creativity department admittedly.

Darthatron

We've decided to replace the Ultima attacks with other attacks, making them good, but no so uber. Ex: Ultima Sword (to be ranamed) will cause 2x damage, and K.O. self - rather than causing 3x damage.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • Discord username: Darthatron

Pata Hikari

Sorry, made a typo.

What I meant is that, with Concentrate, the Assassin's abilities would be as accurate as they currently are without it.