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[Old] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes

Started by Dome, June 01, 2012, 12:45:58 pm

Kagebunji

Ok, I had WAY too much of this shit. Smart ass ronin or w/e, EVTCHRs aren't something that is easily done, and if you have issues with sprites looking like "animated shit" in CCP, then you better stay the fuck away from saying anything about it, vecause CCP is easily the best patch I played so far, if anything, because of all the sprites changes, new items and all new graphics. A patch is not only about gameplay and rebalancing, graphics are important too. One of the reasons I don't wanna touch many patches is because they are just rebalancing patches, which is good, but grahpic-side is important too, mainly because playing FFT for 12 years with the same icons and effects gets really boring, even if there are new abilities and ton of other Patcher shit included.

I vote fuck yes for new sprites in FFT+, since this is one of the things this patch needs most. Rebalancing and gameplay is importnat in FFT patch, but so is graphical side. Every patch should feel like a fresh experience, and nothing does it better than new icons, sprites and many others. CCP is the best definition of that, so don't you dare talk about "animated shit" in that patch.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

Eternal

I tend to say I agree with Kage on this. Evtchrs are a freaking mess to edit, and if you aren't going to play a patch because of some frames during events looking weird (hell, some are even funny), then that's a silly reason not to play a patch.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Dome

Guys, please, there is no need to be harsh with each other
Anyway, looks like the "yes" side won

Now, we just need to decide which sprites we should change...suggestions?

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

MiKeMiTchi

Which jobs are generally underused? Changing their sprites might give those jobs light of a day in someone's playthrough. Personally, I'd like to change the Samurai (head gear), Male Oracle (headgear/palettes/fat), Chemist (looks fat), Female Thief (looks terribly ill), and Male Geomancer (poor design) jobs. The job classes I mentioned are classes I rarely use when I play, not because of skills, but yeah... bec. of aesthetics reasons.

Perhaps you should start a poll first, Dome. ;3
Jot5 GFX Designer :: Spriter :: Mitchi

Neophyte Ronin

QuoteAnyway, looks like the "yes" side won.  Now, we just need to decide which sprites we should change...suggestions?


I agree.  I Voted Other; whatever changes are made are ones we can all live with.  I didn't vote "No", but insisted we keep our priorities in balancing mechanics.  Once the new version is set, we just insert whoever we want and forget we went at everybody's throat about it.  We have plenty of time to figure out these decisions.

Since the old one is decided, we put up a new poll.  If it's possible to vote for multiple choices before submitting a vote, then that would help determine the ones we hate and wish to get emergency plastic surgery after driving them off a cliff.

While we're waiting for that, we can suggest the ones we wish to the chopping block, and also suggest how they should be changed.  This is just an indication about which ones seriously need revision.  Then again, none of the suggestions have to be followed by the artist, especially if they already started with some.  We might enjoy what they offer up even more.  I might too, if it stays thematic to the class' idiom and looks good enough to sell.

Here's my wishlist: change both Knights, female Monk, female Thief, both White Mages, both Black Mages, Time Mages (but keep the faces); change Summoners' head-dress at the very least; change female Oracle (make like Greek Oracle of Delphi), keep the Male one; make the male Bard and Geomancer masculine; enhance the Dancer's dervish style; get the parrot headdress off the male Mime.  Recommend simple changes in palette to better make classes fit their idioms.  Under duress, change the Onion Knights to Freelancers, characters I can actually look at and appreciate using, considering their unique perks.

The Knights don't have helmets.  Why?  The new ones I have seen with helms and circlets are actually pretty cool-looking.  I recommend them.

Geomancers don't make any sense stylistically.  Geomancy refers to divination via dust-throwing, like drawing lots but more painful if you're downwind.  Yet, the chest outfits the guys got make them look metrosexual and the girls look like they're wearing a wool-woven poncho.  I must be way off in terms of the style, but they resemble far west American Indians to me.  There is some sort of cultural thing going down with these outfits, but since they lack discernible Celtic underpinnings I associate with oneness-with-nature, I know nothing that comes close to explaining the designers' original scheme.  In any case, the guys have got to go.  If there is one thing I should warn about with Geomancers is that they must not, under any condition, resemble the Geomancers from FFV.  That's a given.

The Bard doesn't look like a tale-spinner or jack-of-all-trades.  He looks like a wuss in a clasped cloak and does not represent the classic handsome, long-haired troubadour whom gets to screw your girlfriend because she insists, even if she comes back to you afterward.  Why did I level-up Samurai and Mediator to look at this prick?

The Dancer?  If we change her, wouldn't that change Celia and Lede as well?  It probably will.  The only thing I can think of is to give the Dancer the appearance of a dervish.  Well, they look it already--just emphasize it more.  Just keep that and add to the waist so there's no mistaking the idea (they're thin just to keep their appeal to an Asian audience unfamiliar with dervishes and belly dancers).

Mimes are odd-looking.  The guys are meant to evoke parrots.  That's the literal, tragic reason behind the stupid-looking get-up.  Ladies dress as the Kitsune of yore, the multi-tailed, shape-changing fox spirits.  I can understand the women, but the men need to look more like Gogo or they'll be the buttmonkey of character class completionists forever.

Note the emphasis on male sprites.  Female Monks do not look enough like true monks of the series because their padded arm-guards  are out of place.  They need to look like one of the monk outfits from FFV.  The guys actually look close enough that they are passable and hence optional to switch out.

Male White Mages should wear their hood.  Just keep their hair short.  Actually, they can wear burlap brown robes since they are on foot and not in a temple.  Females are okay with their outfit--it's the classic model--although if you really wanted to have some fun, they could shorten their hair and dye it red.  That would help to make both sexes distinct from one another, wouldn't it?

The Black Mages should not have circular eyes like that.  Reduce their size and give them a star-shaped luminescence, suggesting that they give off their own light beneath their shadowy attire.  One should wear the pants, but the other should be in the flowing robe.

The new Time Mage, I'm afraid to say, doesn't make a great deal of sense.  Being that Summoners are the next down that path of offense mages, do they get the same treatment?  One thing is for certain: they can get changed around a bit.  Nix the horns at any rate.  Unless we discover the significance of them--there is no unicorn summon--we just nix both of them and fish for a Summoner outfit inspired by another game in the series (Yuna's original) or something different.

The Oracle (Onmyoshi) looks as close to the original eastern Onmyoshi as you're going to get.  If you decide to try making one into the Oracle of Delphi, it'd be the female one.  The guys are fine as is, but give females the Ancient Greece treatment.  Hey, they called them Oracles in the States, right?  Under no condition do we call them Mystics.  That ain't flyin' with anybody.

If the outfits look okay but you want something better, may I suggest palette swapping.  The Male Ninja, for instance, should wear black if he's in Ramza's unit, and that should be fairly consistent throughout all the different palette swaps.  That should be simple to implement.

Female Thieves do look sickly.  They shouldn't look like their male counterparts.  They could wear their bandanas over their head and lengthen their hair a little.  Gearing them towards swashbuckler gear would make sense, considering the empowered offensive ability of Thieves in the current version.  Perhaps they could look like a female version of Zorro!  That would be sick in a whole different way!

The Onion Knights should be called Freelancers like in FFV and look close to decent.  That means giving them a facelift.  I hated the inclusion of Onion Knights in FFTWotL because they were just horrible to look at.  The concept was covered in FFV and also improved upon there.  If Alicia and Lavian are Freelancers, that would be the clincher that would make me say, "let's design an original game together sometime."


If we're changing something, we better make sure the previous version was broken in the first place.

Neophyte Ronin

The Chemists use them specifically to keep their medicines at hand.

Unless you hacked it, FFVI featured ribbons that anyone could equip.

Changing the name to satchel is very cool.  Don't forget the H Bag was Hydraskin Bag.  That should be the one that Regenerates.  The P Bag is Pantherskin, and should have the Speed.  The Fighting Star Bag is combat-oriented, while the last one, I forget the name.  Anyway, consider a way to get the bags correct; the flip-flop continues even to WotL, when they translated it.  Hydras are regenerating bastards according to Mythology (consider giving them Regenerate when you fight them), while Panthers are super-fast.

Dome

Ok, pool changed
3 votes each
First we will decide which job change, then if the male or female version

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Dome

"satchel" sounds manlier than "Bag"...Change implemented!
Hydras with regen...why not?

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Dome

Random Idea:
Lighting stab should be Orlandu-only
Agrias should lose Holy Explosion/Lighting stab and gain cure/cure2/raise/Esuna
Name of her job becomes paladin

Y/N?

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Neophyte Ronin

Keep the name, but I was thinking of doing that myself, giving Agrias healing arts (not necessary White Magic; the Squire techniques are still viable) and making Lightning Stab exclusive to the one called Thundergod Cid.  I mean, why not?

Lady Ladile

Random comment from the peanut gallery, but I like that idea as well (and I've not even played the patch yet).  I hate redundancy in skills and I love Agrias, so it'd be nice to see her be her own class and not a weaker version of TG Cid.

Dome


"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Neophyte Ronin

I have been retooling the entire text file via TactText.  I'm not sure if every change will fly, but I've taken the liberty of renaming the Hokuten and Nanten the Aquilor and Austeron respectively, after a translation by sugnuf, which is found here.
The two terms are based on the north and south skies, of which Hokuten and Nanten essentially emulate.  In addition, the Latin term for "East Sky" is Vulturus, and is considered a wind of misfortune.  It so happens that the word Touten stands for east sky, and that is the unit that Gafgarion hails from.

Furthermore, while searching for the term "Sietch", in regards to the Cellar of Sand Rats in Zeklaus Desert, I discovered that it is the term for a cavern and hiding place, used in the Dune novels by Frank Herbert.  In other words, Sietch is from the science fiction lexicon and is out of place in a Medieval lingo, until I spot an alternate meaning behind the term.

I'm not against analyzing the texts of the official games as well as the Japanese-to-English translation that sugnuf has provided.  Eternal248 has also adopted its use; he was the one who referred me.  Most of the text is a matter of spelling and grammar, though it is also prudent to reformat virtually everything; this will take a while, but I'll tell you when I'm done.

Dome

Do not worry, take all the time you need :-)
And feel free to rename stuff if you think it's more fitting: Just avoid shitty things like ARGATH and it will be fine xD

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Taichii

do you need some new custom ability effects dome?
Please do share your ideas and suggestion for my project:
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS : LEGEND OF MANA

Join our RP :)
"Desperation"

"PAIN. THAT'S WHAT KEEPS YOU HUMAN"

Timbo

I used a version of the Paladin that's similar to the Advance one. He has three swordskills, a curative spell, a status removal spell. It's not terribly interesting on its own but the Dark Knight I have makes for a sick parallel.

Paladin
Holy Blade - range 3 single target swordskill holy element
Saint Cross - range 0 area 1 or 2 swordskill holy element
Inquisitor - range 3 single target swordspell hurts targets with low faith
Inspiring Strike - Range 1 single target sword skill causes faith
Nurse - Single target healing spell
Purify - Range 1 Cures Undead, Blood Suck, Doubt, Berserk
War Cry - Area 2 ally only cause Defend
Santify - slays undead 100%

Dark Knight
Shadow Blade - range 3 single target swordskill dark element
Soul Eater - range 3 area 1 or swordskill dark element damages costs no mp and damages user. Needs existing ASM.
Heretic's Blade - range 3 single target swordspell hurts targets with high faith
Spirit breaker - Range 1 single target sword skill that causes doubt
Canabalize - Single Target Ally only Drain effect no mp cost
Contaminate - Causes Undead
Howl - Cancels Charge/Defend
Desicrate - Charm Undead 100%
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Timbo

HebrewToYou

Quote from: Dome on July 11, 2012, 05:55:10 pm
Random Idea:
Lighting stab should be Orlandu-only
Agrias should lose Holy Explosion/Lighting stab and gain cure/cure2/raise/Esuna
Name of her job becomes paladin

Y/N?


  • Love the Orlandu-only idea.

  • Agrias should keep Holy Explosion but lose Lightning Stab -- and, as for White Magic skills, I think Cure/Raise would be enough.

  • Love the job rename.



Dome

Quote from: Taichii on July 13, 2012, 03:07:00 pm
do you need some new custom ability effects dome?

Yes, I'll surely need some: Namely for Idro, Aero & Quake (Black magic spells)

@Jack
I like that your paladin/Dark Knight are completely opposite one from the other: But I don't think I want to change Agrias & Gaffy's Skillsets so much...

Quote from: HebrewToYou on July 13, 2012, 03:48:39 pm
Agrias should keep Holy Explosion but lose Lightning Stab -- and, as for White Magic skills, I think Cure/Raise would be enough

IMHO we can just re-tool her 3 swordskill instead of giving her 4:
Stasis sword (Range 2, Vertical 2 AoE1, 25% stop)
Split Punch (Range 3, Vertical Infinite, no status)
Crush Punch (Range 3, Vertical 1, 25% dead)

Also, I think I'll give monsters human PA/MA, so I can give them normal spells instead of custom ones (Birds will get Aero instead of Lashing wind, for example)

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Dome


"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Lady Ladile

I'm assuming all the current sprites are the vanilla ones, yes?