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Job & Skill Proposals/Idea Thread

Started by Vanya, November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 am

DarkxFatal

December 09, 2009, 10:01:57 pm #120 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by DarkxFatal
Oh ok. I thought t was something like that, but I didn't really understand the Animations tab :/

Thanks though ^^

*Edit*

Thanks so much! It's working just fine now  :D
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Wasabi

December 10, 2009, 09:09:39 pm #121 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Wasabi
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Hm... yank one of the magic gun formulas and do some fiddling to create an Oath ability to cast Midgar Zolom, Lich, or Cyclops?  I'm not sure what all can be done with those formulas.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"well, to my understanding, since the spells called are dependent on the element the formula is assigned, even if the magic gun formula did work when not attached to a weapon, you'd still be limited to fire, ice, or thunder element. (most likely anyway, though I think I remember some talk about it defaulting to the ice spells if not one of those three). This may or may not interfere with the AI's use of the skill (since it may think that the spell is ice element, when the spells it calls are really dark element/non-elemental)

I believe the AI would be too stupid to consider if the formula is elemental based on the formula of the ability, since all it does is transfer the command to allow differentiating percentages between the tier 1, 2 and 3 spells the ability is assigned to. Like, say you're using the ice magic gun formula, it won't consider the ability an ice element based on what it reads from the formula itself but whatever the element the corresponding abilities that ability designates. As always, however, this does need to be experimented just to be sure (and you can always fiddle around the AI behavior slightly to see how this ability is utilized in battle).

This has been mentioned a couple of times in this forum, but a revamp of the Bard/Dancer classes should be in order. I've seen one topic concerning the Dancer that has been revamped and edited, and it looked pretty swell, but nothing about the Bard class. Suggestions?

DarkxFatal

December 10, 2009, 09:16:15 pm #122 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by DarkxFatal
Well..I made the Bard into..more of a Soldier like class :/

But the growths are the same..So I'll need to work on that..

(Because I couldn't find it else where..)

How would I go about downloading/uploading a patch onto an ISO? Like FFT Mercenaries.. >_<
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SilvasRuin

December 10, 2009, 09:44:43 pm #123 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
Well you could at least give them draw out type area of effects instead of EVERYTHING so that they can't just hide in a corner.  Maybe boost the AoE more than the draw outs so they can cover at least a little more distance though.  As for abilities...  I haven't thought too hard about that.

DarkxFatal

December 10, 2009, 09:59:40 pm #124 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by DarkxFatal
You mean..Kind of like 1.3??

But I kind of understand. Make it like an 'Odin' summon range for Draw Outs :/..

I made another class...And this one is actually over-powered..

It's called the Admin class. With Zodiac's sprite too...The skills replace the 'Songs' for the Bards.. High Growths...Almost impossible to miss skills... But they have somewhat high MP costs..so it works....

*Edit*

Link to a video showing off Zodiac :/   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHMHZ2mWXdo

It's...pretty ridiculous
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Vanya

December 11, 2009, 06:46:10 pm #125 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
Quote from: "DarkxFatal"How would I go about downloading/uploading a patch onto an ISO? Like FFT Mercenaries.. >_<

Please restrict these sorts of questions to the help forum, please.
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¯\(°_0)/¯

DarkxFatal

December 11, 2009, 06:55:38 pm #126 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by DarkxFatal
Sorry about that :/
I've been getting a few ideas for my patch but...

I think my classes are a bit over-powered (The Unique ones at least)
But I have a few plans to help with that, and I'm going to end up puttig back the Job Requirements for classes and most likely will be making classes such as a Black Knight/White Knight (BK using Black Magic sword skills while WK uses White Magic Sword Skills) Among a few other ideas  :?
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Zaen

December 13, 2009, 12:19:10 am #127 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Zaen
Well, Delete was rather impressive, if I may say so myself.

For the bard, it wouldn't make sense to be able to sing across a HUGE map to support allies. I mean, Mediators can only talk 3 panels. So, it being of the highest (or 2nd) tier, make it 4 panels AoE. So where it moves, it affects allies? And of course, a slightly smaller CT for the bigger songs could be in order. You could even go with themes for the songs, giving them different effects. I thought about that a bit myself, it'd be rather fun to mess with after seeing what you can do with Dancer (like that one topic, with the elemental based dances and such. It works very well).
"Oh, God!! The Hokuten!!" ~Guard, Sand Rat Cellar

DarkxFatal

December 13, 2009, 09:41:21 am #128 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by DarkxFatal
Thanks, though I wish it didn't completely destroy the field.. And it was only a single target attack XD

That is a good idea, because realistically..No one could probably hear a song from across a battlefield . So it does make sense to make it a much smaller range( and smaller AoE of course). It could work like Cloud's Limits, they only affect the panels, they don't travel with the characters...Though, then people might fully denounce Bards..

I'll try to work on this and upload a video or two, of course with added music since ePSXe doesn't seem to record sound >_<

*Edit*

The Bard video is now up..Though currently the 'AudioSwap' is taking place so there will be some music..

Bard *Beta* - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYVwbB3cDJk
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Vanya

December 15, 2009, 08:42:01 am #129 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
I'm totally in agreement with the Bard having AoE. It worked well in the main series for their skills to affect all allies, but those are much tighter quarters than in FFT. The Dancer's skills should also be limited to AoE, but with a larger range than songs since they rely on sight rather than sound. Or maybe making them work with line of sight instead?
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¯\(°_0)/¯

SilvasRuin

December 15, 2009, 12:06:13 pm #130 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
Slightly extended range over what Bard gets in exchange for line of sight, perhaps?

Vanya

December 15, 2009, 01:42:42 pm #131 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the maxed out range and making it line of sight, instead of limited range greater than that of the Bard. My thinking is that since dances seem to based on visual magic that they should work as long as the Dancer is visible. The battle fields in FFT don't look so large that one unit in a corner couldn't still clearly see another unit in the opposite corner.

While using line of sight isn't perfect, it emulated the effect enough. The full idea would require some ASM to make it so the target itself needs to have line of sight with the Dancer, rather than just the Dancer having it. Another ASM addition to this sort of system would be to prevent dances from working if the unit is made invisible. That is assuming the dance has too be seen for it's magic to work. If we assume it relies on the motions themselves, then this is all irrelevant anyway.
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¯\(°_0)/¯

Wasabi

December 15, 2009, 07:13:12 pm #132 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Wasabi
I'm definitely in favor of Zaen's suggestion for the Bard's songs: AOE of 4 on the Bard itself. I believe the range should be set at Auto so that the range is limited to the panels surrounding the Bard, therefore making the channeling abilities only affect in those respective panels. CT for each individual ability should be tinkered with to compensate for the range/AOE limitation as well. I'm not in favor with the the ability "following the target" as that would mess with the range/AOE implications set on auto.

As for the Dancer, I really do like the elemental dance proposal made from that one topic. However, being the skeptic that I am, making the Dances follow whatever that has been suggested in other Final Fantasies would be a higher priority than making it a fully original skillset. Concerning the line of sight/255 range-&-AOE suggestion proposed by Vanya, I really think that's a good idea for making the Dancer a more supportive unit. In my imagination, I feel that they should be more mobile and attack-oriented as a unit (partially because of FFV's Dancer with Sword Dance and such). I haven't really thought too much on utilizing the Dancer's skillset in this fashion yet, but maybe taking away the Samurai's Draw Out AOE and implementing them on the Dancer's dances would be a good idea. And from there a re-fashioning of the Samurai's skillset from their original self AOE 3 with something else would be in order. I mean, the Bard would have the advantage in terms of AOE and curative/protective abilities, but since they're not meant for melee the Dancer would be a healthy contrast with their equipment (daggers, cloths and maybe ninja blades) a tighter AOE and attack/status inflicting abilities.

But now that I've explained my previous statement in that way, I guess I introduced another topic in this topic: a skillset rehaul for the Samurai. If so, then I must say this: Mineuchi ftw! :P Zantetsu... maybe. Anyway, FFX-2 has a good dose of abilities to work with, but to have these abilities function with the katana-item system may be in need of some consideration (or a complete drop from the system in all).

Also, I feel katanas as an equipment are a bit drab. There's a use for swords, lances and maybe axes if you removed their random damage formula. But katanas have no real solid use at all if used as an "Equip Katana" support, other than raw WP attack power and looks. Maybe nerfing their WP in favor of elemental/stat attributes would be a good consideration.

PS: I believe you can make the Bard/Dancer move around the map as they're undergoing the channeling status. Maybe. It's been awhile since I've actually used these classes, so I'm a bit rusty on how channeling functions.

DarkxFatal

December 15, 2009, 07:22:45 pm #133 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by DarkxFatal
As for Zaen's suggestion (and your agreement on it, Wasabi)

I did do that for my Bard/Minstrel. You can see the video I made in the signature.. But I'm still working on it. I might have to increase the area effect..Right now, it's only...3?..Er...Something like that, but it works pretty well =/

But I have an idea for a class..

I'm sure a lot of people remembers the Hunter class from FFTA/FFTA2?

Well..I tried to recreate it in my patch..

I replaced the Archer class, got rid of his Charge skills.
I added Shockwave (using Ultima as the animation)
Invitation, Fire, Ice, and Bolt Arrow. Blind Arrow..Poison Arrow..

Arm Aim, Leg Aim, and Seal Evil..

I gave him innate Monster Skill, innate Monster Talk, and innate...something =/

Does the class sound good?
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Dormin Jake

December 15, 2009, 10:36:00 pm #134 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Dormin Jake
I did something similar with my Dancer/Bard.  Auto AoE of 4v6 centered on the caster, and I changed the abilities to standard charge times rather than continuous performances (just so I could balance things better).  I tried to keep the class roles roughly the same (offensive dances, supportive songs), but I also tried to diversify the skillsets a bit.  Mostly I wanted to replace the stat buffs and debuffs, to keep Squire's Accumulate and the Knight's break skills unique.

I like your idea Vanya, of having Dances keep infinite range but with line of sight restriction.  I just did mine this way to keep the two classes as closely parallel as possibly.

Gratuitous promotion of my own skillsets:

Dancer - rather than acting like the dances themselves have an inherent power to their steps, I'm attributing the effects of dances to the discreet use of various poisons, smokes, and mild enchantments, representing the Dancer as a manipulator instead of someone who can turn people into frogs just because of the way she moves her body.

I won't explain how massively I overhauled my job tree, but the two main requirements for Dancer in my patch are Thief and Wizard, and that's the sort of flavor I'm going for.

Venom Dervish - 10% max hp damage with a chance to poison
Sapping Aura - 25% max mp damage
Dusk Minuet - ~90% chance to add darkness
Hushing Pall - ~65% chance to add silence
Lethargy Mist - ~50% chance to add slow
Nameless Dance - ~70% chance to add random status
Water Rondo - ((PA+4)/2)*MA water damage (inspiration from Mog's FFVI dances)

Bard - Bards are powerful because their songs/stories inspire.  And, there's maybe a little bit of magic behind them.  Their two main job requirements are Priest and Warrior (overhauled Monk), so I'm treating Bard more like the badass Norse Viking Bards rather than dudes playing lyres in tights.  Not like there is anything AT ALL wrong with that. :x  Also I sort of built these guys to be alternatives to using Priests and Chemists as your main healers.

War Epic - heal 10% max hp with 100% chance to add defend
Mystic Melody - heal MA*2 MP
Soothing Song - heal 10% max hp and dispels negative status ailments
Uplifting Hymn - ~65% chance to add faith
Vital Anthem - heal 20% max hp with 25% chance to add regen
Myth of Gods - (MA/2)*MA holy damage, with chance to add regen (felt they could use an offensive ability, but only with a drawback)
Unending Tale - ~80% chance to revive teammates with 10% max hp

Oh, and I got A LOT of inspiration from Final Fantasy V:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dancer_%28Final_Fantasy_V%29
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_%28Final_Fantasy_V%29

I included the abilities I used above merely to illustrate the point that Dancer and Bard can still fill the same sort of roles they did in Vanilla, but with maybe less of the silly brokenness of bland, map-wide stat point changes.  Regardless, I like where this thread is headed.
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Tea

December 17, 2009, 06:38:59 pm #135 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Tea
So where is, you know, the tutorial, one might ask. And thanks for the ideas :>

SilvasRuin

December 18, 2009, 06:36:15 am #136 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
It's still under construction.  This thread/discussion/effort is still relatively new.

Vanya

December 18, 2009, 09:06:26 am #137 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
After this weekend I'll start making the tutorials. It's the last 2 art shows of the year for my wife and I. I'll have more time to work on them come Monday.
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¯\(°_0)/¯

SilvasRuin

December 18, 2009, 03:14:54 pm #138 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
I suppose this is the place to put this sort of discussion as it involves Hunters, Dragoons, and other jobs.

So every so often I muse about the elements.  Here's my latest thoughts.

Fire ------->  Fire
Lightning ->  Wind (with both Wind and Lightning animations included)
Ice ------->  Water (with both Water and Ice animations included)
Wind ----->  Beast (given to abilities like Sidewinder, all Behemoths, Panthers, etc. set to weak against it)
Earth ----->  Melee (It would make Float rather desirable, though it should take much more to get it applied to someone in response)
Water ---->  Health (both healing spells and poison.  Humans would be made weak to it, undead resistant/immune/absorb)
Holy ------>  Dragon (given to dragon slaying abilities and all dragons and hydras would be set to weak against it)
Dark ----->  Gravity (with the Float weakness hack set to Dark instead for this more sensible coloration.  good counter to the newly empowered Float.)

Boom, you now become able to create weapons and abilities designed to kill beasts and dragons, or really, you could use the elements in any sort of way in that nature.  You could in a similar fashion make certain armors resist attacks from dragons.  You could also skip Hunters and make one element the weakness of dragons and one element the attacks of dragons to really give a dragon killing job the advantage.

Giving a psionic job their own attack type is also something that's crossed my mind.

Vanya

December 18, 2009, 03:21:46 pm #139 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
That reminds me of how the elements/statuses were handled in FF1.
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