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Blue mage: How to properly make it?

Started by Dome, July 08, 2014, 09:57:03 am

Dome

So, can a 100% working blue mage be implemented in FFT?
I mean, a job that learns spells from the enemies, can cast them without making weird movements (Like pulling daggers out of nowhere), etc etc...?

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Angel

Yeah. Just look at how Ultima and Zodiac are learned in vanilla. Jot5, for example, uses learn on hit liberally. Perfectly feasible to make a blue mage class however you desire. Not sure what you mean by 'weird movements' though, since that would depend entirely on how you yourself design the skills and their respective animations.
  • Modding version: PSX
* Angel should quit being a lazy bitch
<@Elric> I agree to that as well

nyanyame nyanyajuu nyanyado no nyarabide nyakunyaku inyanyaku nyanyahan nyanyadai nyannyaku nyarabete nyaganyagame
At the end of the day, are we not all trapped inside lemons?

Dome

Thanks for the quick reply
About the "weird movements":
Try giving "Choco meteor" or "Giga flare" to a generic unit and you'll see what I mean

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Angel

Aha. Yeah, it does depend greatly on what you do with the move animations themselves. If you were sticking with vanilla abilities, you would definitely be a bit limited in what you'd end up using, but the sky's the limit if you make a new set of abilities and effects to go with them.
  • Modding version: PSX
* Angel should quit being a lazy bitch
<@Elric> I agree to that as well

nyanyame nyanyajuu nyanyado no nyarabide nyakunyaku inyanyaku nyanyahan nyanyadai nyannyaku nyarabete nyaganyagame
At the end of the day, are we not all trapped inside lemons?

Timbo

If you want to hand out abilities like Gigaflare, you can change the animations.
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Timbo

Jumza

Quote from: Jack of All Trades on July 08, 2014, 04:16:54 pm
If you want to hand out abilities like Gigaflare, you can change the animations.


You'd have to find some animation that fits both sprites, which would require a lot of testing. The only ones you can really be sure are safe are abilities tied to monsters that have type 1 /2 spritesheets, Goblins, Skeletons and Squids.

But if you do find some animations that fit both types of sprites, please share your findings :) I'd certainly be interested in having that kind of info.
  • Modding version: PSX
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apollo326

Quote from: Jumza on July 08, 2014, 04:25:58 pm
You'd have to find some animation that fits both sprites, which would require a lot of testing. The only ones you can really be sure are safe are abilities tied to monsters that have type 1 /2 spritesheets, Goblins, Skeletons and Squids.

But if you do find some animations that fit both types of sprites, please share your findings :) I'd certainly be interested in having that kind of info.


You mean how Eye Gouge(goblins) and Flame attack(bombs) are basic attack animations with the correct weapons, followed by the spell animation. I find those work pretty well.

Xifanie

Or someone could make an ASM hack that allows to assign different animations based on sprite type for abilities.
  • Modding version: PSX
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Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
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3lric

This was part of why I recorded all vanilla monsters attack animations and numbers,
as well as normal units.
  • Modding version: PSX

Kaijyuu

I dunno if this has been fixed by someone yet, but one problem with a potential Blue Mage is if you want abilities to have an MP cost, the monsters that use them will be bugged. First, they won't have their MP depleted by using them (not too bad), but their AI won't use them if they seem to not have enough MP to cast them (kinda bad). As such, MP draining a monster would be an excellent way to debilitate it even if it doesn't actually use MP.

Of course I could just be making all this up; it's a vague memory from years ago.
  • Modding version: PSX

kyozo22

I think this is incorrect. Monsters are hardcoded to not lose MP, yes, but I'm pretty sure that as long as they have enough MAX MP to cover the MP cost then they should be fine. I think. :)
  • Modding version: WotL

Dome

If an ability costs 6 mp, and the monster has at least 6, it will use it
If an ability costs 6 mp, and the monster has 5, it will never use it

I know because bombs didn't want to cast fire until they had the right amount of mp in FFT:+, and stop to if their mp get drained

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

kyozo22

Ah right. My apologies, I was incorrect.
  • Modding version: WotL

Kurosabes

Monsters can actually consume MP. You have to set their skillset to <default> instead of "Monster" in the FFTP Action Menu. A side effect is that player controlled monsters will have permanent access to their Monster Skill. AI controlled monsters can use it if you set them innate Monster Skill.
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Kurosabes#0312

nitwit

July 13, 2014, 03:07:37 pm #14 Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 03:19:49 pm by nitwit
Quote from: Dome on July 08, 2014, 09:57:03 am
So, can a 100% working blue mage be implemented in FFT?
I mean, a job that learns spells from the enemies, can cast them without making weird movements (Like pulling daggers out of nowhere), etc etc...?


I'm interested in this too, please share your findings on animations.

I don't know how you could make a simple, easy-to-understand document that tells you what each animation option does when placed with each sprite type.  It sounds like a POTA.

For MP, is there anything wrong with giving monsters a very high MP multiplier but a low MP growth, besides Oracles and Beowulf having a ready supply of MP via MP absorb abilities?

Valkirst

I have done it, I made a Blue Mage to replace the bard and have him learn on hit, all the monster spell types and made a berserker female and had her learn on hit Attack skill types. I had the animations for the blue mage all be summon or black mage animations and picked which ones I thought fit the monster types form animations I already knew from the regular classes mostly the monk animations.
  • Modding version: PSX
Completed Sprites
  • Discord username: Valkirst

3lric

As I've already mentioned, we have a Blue Mage in Jot5, it works fine,
there is no further confirmation needed as long as you choose your animations correctly.
  • Modding version: PSX

Timbo

I've always thought the trickiest thing is rebalancing all of your monsters MA and all of the powers to keep things from being under or overpowered.
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Timbo

nitwit

Quote from: Jack of All Trades on July 13, 2014, 06:23:43 pm
I've always thought the trickiest thing is rebalancing all of your monsters MA and all of the powers to keep things from being under or overpowered.

I know I saw some damage calculation spreadsheets around here somewhere.

Valkirst

What Jack and Nit said. :)

But I guess Elric figured that out for JotF. Awesome possum.
  • Modding version: PSX
Completed Sprites
  • Discord username: Valkirst