Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => FFT+ => Topic started by: Dome on June 01, 2012, 12:45:58 pm

Title: [Old] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on June 01, 2012, 12:45:58 pm
Taking advantage of the fact that I'm going to re-make FFT + from scratch, I'm probably going to change a lot of stuff
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=9443.0

http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7519.0

- Level cap set at 50 instead of 99 (?)
- Best compat does 25% instead of 50% extra dmg, good/bad 12.5%
- Specials can do propositions
- You can change name of human units
- Cursor starts on "Continue" instead of new game
- Equip Crossbow lets you equip Bow+Crossbow
- Equip Sword lets you equip Swords+K.Swords
- Equip Axe lets you equip Axes & flails
- Undeads always come back 100% of the times
- Support above Short charge gives you 25% more precision
- Short charge works on charge
- Arrow Guard blocks Bows, Guns & Thrown Items
- Axes do PA*WP damage
- Party Roster hack
- Move/Jump +3 become Solidify (Walk on Lava+Water, half: Fire & Water) & Ground Aware (Swim + Poison Immunity)
- You can enter the Fur Shop without "Poach"
- Stolen & Broken Equipment can be bought back at the fur Shop V2.
- Player gains less money from winning fights
- Hi Potion heals 20% of HP and X-Potion 33%
- Attack Up/Defense Up/M.Attack Up/M.Defense Up 25% instead of 33%
- Removed randomization from level ups
- Jp Glitch Fix
- Oil Glitch Fix
- P.Down does 25% dmg to undeads
- Charging/performin units do not take extra damage
- Gear scales based on story progression instead of level
- Fist damage becomes PA/2*PA
- MP Switch damage overflows to Hp
- Removed Permanent Br & Faith alterations
- Untruth bug correction
- Martial arts boost is 25% instead of 50%
- Inherent RSM limitation hack
- Elemental weakness reduced to 3/2
- Death Sentence ignores Cancel: Dead
- Job 46: Undead Oracle is mountable
- Remove item duplication (Removes the "Best Fit" feature)
- Blind overrides concentrate
- Haste is 25% speed boost
- Slow is 25% speed loss

Zodiac beasts more similar to their FF XII counterparts (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8950.0)

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Enchanter-F.png)(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Enchanter-M.png)

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Samu_M.png)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/8y97kk.jpg)

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Rogue_W.png)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2cne6vp.jpg)


You'll have to steal all the "Rare items" during Ch4 fights instead of finding them into the DD
You'll be able to return to the world map after killing Altima
DD will be unlocked ONLY after you killed Altima
Finishing the DD will unlock a secret. But I'll keep it secret for now


Like/Don't like something/Have a suggestion? Feel free to post!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Taichii on June 01, 2012, 12:56:54 pm
Quote from: Dome on June 01, 2012, 12:45:58 pm
Xeldoran is making awesome -generic- sprites for everyone to use (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8812.0)
Would you like to see some of them implemented in FFT: Plus?
And if yes, which one?

haha that is what appeared on my mind when i saw the title of this post...
anyway.. ALL :)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Joseph Strife on June 01, 2012, 03:12:20 pm
GRAB ALL THE SPIRTES!!111!!!
(http://laurelstreetblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/x-all-the-things-template.jpg-460x326.png)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on June 03, 2012, 07:53:49 am
Only so long as the artist performing the changes will also perform artwork on the special animations of characters, that cause all the color palette glitches during cinemas, would I ever incorporate new sprites into an old game.  You know, like when you change the Knight graphics and during the Sand Rat Cellar battle, two of the sprites regress to original artwork and look like animated shit?  I saw enough of that in Celdia's Complete Patch and others to seriously reconsider playing them through.  We still have to deal with the Balmafula/Onion Knight glitch effect during several cinemas featuring her.

I understand the chief objective behind Plus was to gut and balance the game itself while retaining the original art assets and general play and tone of Vanilla--just tougher and more refined, with additional, optional challenges.  I recall you rescinded the idea to rename the Archer into the Ranger, even though the Archer now has the "Train" Support Ability (so creatures may be recruited).  It was an effort made to appease anybody who thought that renaming that class was a move against staying true to the original, thus contradicting the project's premise to recreate Tactics in a more playable format.  Ergo, I am on the side that you should not use modified Generic Class Sprites.

If, however, you decide to incorporate them, I suggest the following: consult with Xelodoran and request specific modifications for the Class Changes you wish to incorporate.  That way, you can somewhat guide the art direction for your project.  Of course, that may also require multiple versions from which to choose from, to appease other project heads.  Don't impose if he's unwilling to redo a Class multiple times.  The second bit of advice is to release two patches: one that retains the original artwork, and the other that applies the new skins and palettes.  Neither game should incorporate game elements unique to themselves, unless you want four separate patches.

For now, though, I suggest you continue repairing bugs and tweaking the game to ensure its playability at any rate.  A fancy new character redesign, cross-the-board or just for Generic characters, does not sound like what Tactics Plus was meant to do.  It was a balance/hard-type patch that retained the flavor of the original game.  And so far at least, it's been doing just that.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Otabo on June 03, 2012, 12:18:50 pm
Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on June 03, 2012, 07:53:49 am
For now, though, I suggest you continue repairing bugs and tweaking the game to ensure its playability at any rate.  A fancy new character redesign, cross-the-board or just for Generic characters, does not sound like what Tactics Plus was meant to do.  It was a balance/hard-type patch that retained the flavor of the original game.  And so far at least, it's been doing just that.


This.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on June 03, 2012, 04:41:24 pm
Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on June 03, 2012, 07:53:49 am
A fancy new character redesign, cross-the-board or just for Generic characters, does not sound like what Tactics Plus was meant to do.  It was a balance/hard-type patch that retained the flavor of the original game.  And so far at least, it's been doing just that.


Dome decides what FFT+ is meant to do, and it seems he's interested in adding new graphical assets to the patch.

I don't mind glitching in the cutscenes, since I usually turbo through them, and the glitches are good for a laugh; just as long as there aren't graphical glitches during the battles.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: 3lric on June 03, 2012, 04:56:39 pm
Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on June 03, 2012, 07:53:49 am
Only so long as the artist performing the changes will also perform artwork on the special animations of characters, that cause all the color palette glitches during cinemas, would I ever incorporate new sprites into an old game.  You know, like when you change the Knight graphics and during the Sand Rat Cellar battle, two of the sprites regress to original artwork and look like animated shit?  I saw enough of that in Celdia's Complete Patch and others to seriously reconsider playing them through.  We still have to deal with the Balmafula/Onion Knight glitch effect during several cinemas featuring her.


These are EVTCHR and I already told Dome that once I finish with Jot5 Chapter 1, I will remove and work around using EVTCHR's for generics in events to stop this issue in FFT+
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on June 03, 2012, 05:12:43 pm
Quote from: Stretch on June 03, 2012, 04:41:24 pm
Dome decides what FFT+ is meant to do, and it seems he's interested in adding new graphical assets to the patch.

The mere fact that I opened this topic should hint that I do care about the opinion of others, otherwise I would have put the sprites in and said
1.01C changelog: New sprites!!!!!11111eleven
Right? XD
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: 3lric on June 04, 2012, 11:09:18 pm
Quote from: Jack of All Trades on June 03, 2012, 10:46:03 pm
Modifying the special event animations is very important. Adding special sprites in is cool but having all of your cut scenes bug out kills the games level of immersion and breaks the forth wall.


It depends what is replaced, there is only a handful of events that even HAVE EVTCHR for Generic Unit's. Most are for Special/Main characters. So honestly it really doesn't kill
ALL the cutscenes unless he replaces all the main chars as well, and judging by the name of this thread that doesn't seem to be the case. But yes. It should be easy enough to fix.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: krilz on June 05, 2012, 03:29:29 am
I'm with Neophyte on this one. The big question I'm asking myself is: What's wrong with the current ones? The only one I've really disliked is the female Mime (it looks like a white fox, wtf) but other than that, I'd rather have a flawless patch to begin with than a cool buggy one.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on June 05, 2012, 03:42:45 am
I'll repeat myself:
Guys, fixing bugs is ALWAYS my main concern
The reason I update the patch is to FIX BUGS
While I'm at it, I also add stuff if I feel it's a worthy addition
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on June 05, 2012, 06:27:07 am
What I'd like to see implemented...

Lijj's:
Samurai
Ninja -> Rogue
Female Mime -> Unmasked Mime

As for Xeldoran's, his Male Geomancer sprite looks beast. Others still need work, but overall the concepts were pwnsome.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Lijj on June 05, 2012, 02:15:45 pm
I agree with Mike (also thanks [the quality of the samurai sprites is top-notch I can guarantee]) and~
I don't think you'd have to change any event chars by implementing any of the above mentioned by MikeMitchi.
Yes, Xeldoran's are very cool designs but I can see some minute errors in them pixel-wise. I have not tested the frames yet; I hope they're ok.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: 3lric on June 05, 2012, 05:56:33 pm
Quote from: Lijj on June 05, 2012, 02:15:45 pm
I don't think you'd have to change any event chars by implementing any of the above mentioned by MikeMitchi.

Correct, there are no EVTCHR's for Samurai, Ninja or Mime. Honestly most EVTCHR for generic units are for Knights
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Kaijyuu on June 09, 2012, 02:26:34 pm
Voted no. New stuff for new stuff's sake isn't good, imo. And I like all the generic sprites, except a few meh ones (like both mediators).
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Timbo on June 09, 2012, 03:17:15 pm
I know this guy is not a generic sprite but it's so close to being on topic so I figured I'd share him here. I don't know if you are interested but I did a minor update of the Red Mage sprite that rathaelos made (using Cheetah's portrait). It recolors the scarf and feather but more importantly, I created updated Rad's sprite in the EVTCHR.bin. I'm not a terrific spriter so I didn't bother creating a new portrait or fixing Cheetah's.

Here is a link to the old post containing and bmp:
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5160.msg112555#msg112555 (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5160.msg112555#msg112555)

I'm not a terribly talented spriter so I'm not planning to fix the portrait right away. However, if you wanted to use this, I would move it to the top of my agenda.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on June 27, 2012, 12:45:28 pm
Taking advantage of the fact that I'm going to re-make FFT + from scratch, I'm probably going to change a lot of stuff

As you may (Or may not) know, Neophyte Ronin is working on a new script, which will better translate the game from the japanese version without being shitty/boring/whatever like the WOTL version
In the process, he is probably going to change some special character's name as well

Quote from: Neophyte RoninI took the liberty of rewriting virtually every word in the original translation, using sugnuf's script and going through everything featured in TactText, hence my slow trickle of posts.  I should submit this for approval: I wish to mow down and neaten up the translation.

There are a few caveats, not the least of which involve the amount of desired profanity and a general consensus on what to name each character.  Most of these are straightforward, although a few were changed for the worse and others for the better, and still a few others are just out there.  I intend to change a couple names here and there and, as a result, I have performed research about where they came up with some of them.

Now, most are eerily similar to combat terms (Meliadoul sounds like Melee and Duel and probably pronounced the same way, a Japanese sort of pun that didn't translate all too well since, to overseas people, it sounds garish and loud).  However, there are actual rhymes of reason behind each one:

Vormav is a Russian word for Thief.  Voorman is a word combining the terms for "Before/in-front-of" and Man, so it could also mean a boss or head of agency.  Yeah, that's pretty literal.  The Russian word is very telling of Vormav, so using the WotL version is off limits.


Rofel is awkward beyond belief.  Loffrey is most likely the intent of the original script, hence we change it.  Now, we could give him a nickname like ROFLCOPTER, but that's just pushing buttons.


His last name, Lachish, refers to the Lachish Letters, a series of ancient correspondences found on carbon ink and clay ostraca.  It may be found at the British Museum in London.  The original term "Rakshu" is a clearly Japanese-sounding transliteration of the word Lachish.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/lachish_letters


For a long time, I thought Meliadoul was pronounced "Melee-Duel" as a typical Japanese pun, sort of like naming characters after food products because they think it sounds funny (over here, we name them after rock musicians where appropriate).

After using Google's search engine, I happened upon the "Melian Dialogue", a conversation written by Thucydides about the response of a neutral island off the coast of Sparta to an invasion by the Athenians as part of a game to spite their rivals.  The similarity between the names was genuine enough for me to incorporate a revision of her name to better capture the origin of the name, and to brush it up a bit: Mellian Diala (fancy female middle name) Tyringel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/melian_dialogue


Celia and Lede/Lettie are gross mistranslations of phrases meant to describe their attire: Celia wears blue and Lede red.  The Romanji for Lede is REDI for God's sake!  How could we have missed that?  I hated Lede/Lettie's name for the longest time and sought to alter it; I dubbed her Liedel, a witch who appeared in the first Ogre Battle game and who doubled as the chronicler (like Alazlam) in Ogre Battle 64.  What can I say?  I'm a fan of Yasuni's work.

Anyway, REDI can be switched to Liedel, although I intend to fix the text to include pet names among these enchanting little succubi; her friend Celia (now called Seria) calls her Rouge, a sexy-sounding variant for the color red.  As for Celia's change, it sounds closer to Cerulean, or indigo, a variation of the color blue, which she happens to be wearing.  In short, the Ultima Demon Assassin girls are named after their fucking outfits.  Could Azrael get any less creative with his cohorts?  Then again, they're likely pseudonyms in place of their true names, which could be used by a savvy magician to bind them to a mortal's will.


Kletian Drowa is fucked-up.  The name is inspired by the French scribe, Chretien de Troyes.  I'll go with that, thank you; both translations failed to capture what it was.


Izlude, or Isilud, are both wrong.  The closest word that comes close is Isolde, better known as the hottie babe in the Tristan & Isolde romantic epic.  Why the fuck is this kid named after the chick, huh?  Fucking Japan, I swear....

But to be honest, Tristan isn't such a bad name, so we'll name him that.  That's his real name, which is alluded to once or twice in my (revised) script, assuming nobody objects.  He gets the name Isolde as a cheap hazing gag on the Knights Templar's part.  Meliadoul will allude to his name during a few of her dialogues during the scenes involving her.


Golgoroth is actually the name of a toad-like great old one in the Lovecraftian tradition, one with a particularly hard stare.  Golgoros and Gorgoroth are close, but Golgoroth is the one we'll use.  It doesn't really matter a whole lot beyond the cosmetic side, as Sir Levigne is a passable name and the Golgoroth is probably just a nickname anyway.


Milleuda is almost there, but not quite.  To be honest, there are several allusions to Old English terms like Weald, which stands for forest.  It's not the Siedge, but rather the Sweegy, yet it's a Weald now.  Relax, it's cool.  Speaking of Old English, while looking up Mildew, I found that it's an Old English word standing for Honeydew (you know, that stuff that aphids leave behind?), before it became associated with sick building syndrome in the modern age.  Milldeua (pet name: Milly) is a slight change that befits her honey-golden hair and once-sweet persona turned rotten and festering from the abuses of the nobility.  It's not a major change, but it is closer to what she's like.


Wiegraf is now Wiglaf.  Fuckin' eh, I mean, really?


A lot of the dialogue has been given a face lift as well.  I noticed that the stolid script lacks a good sense of humor, no matter what translation there is.  The only bit is slapstick and it happens to Mustadio.  In Plus, Mustadio is halfway near being a decent player character, so keeping him the only whipping boy ain't gonna fly.  I just pulled this scene out: it's the brief family reunion.

By the way: if you know if {0xf4} is meant to be a pause in the scrolling dialogue that you press Confirm to continue displaying (saw it used in TactText and I remember it was used in Mustadio's Formation Screen Quote), and that it still works in other programs by virtue of it being legitimate code, let me know.

The Aegis, Agrathi: You should know, the Sadalfas family was once respected and praised just like yours, {Ramza}.  But my grandfather was captured during the Fifty Years' War.  They say he did something unconscionable.  They said he sought to save his own skin by trading those of his comrades.  But, as he left the bastion....  He was stabbed in the back, by none other than a squire just like myself.  One of my grandfather's former comrades escaped and spread the lies around like Germinas wildfire.  Of course, father never believed one word of it.  But everyone else did, and he was deserted... whitewashed.... (tosses stone into fountain) With the rank I was born with... I would never have entertained the notion of an audience with Dycedarg....

Young Girl's Voice: Deeelllitaaa!  Oh, Deeeeellliitaaaa!

Delita (turns): I heard ya the first time, Teta!

Ramza (turns, startled): Whoa!  Alma, Zalbag!  How long were you...?

(They approach together)

Alma: Hey {Ramza}, you never wrote anything about coming home!

Ramza: So brother, did you get my letter about me coming home?

Zalbag: What letter?  (Pause) Never mind that; I only heard you lambasted those thieves in Gariland to a pulp!  That's worthy of our name; I've no doubt our father above is pleased with both of you right now.

Ramza: ...Thanks.

Zalbag: Ha, ha... just the same as always.  Still uncomfortable hearing that... (pause) do me a favor and never change.  So, Delita, looking good; I did hear you're doing all the heavy lifting.  (pause) Teta can't stop chattering about you.

(Teta approaches Delita)

Teta: Yeah, and I'm almost impressed you're still vertical, wearing that suit.

Delita: Heh, I'll take that as a compliment.  You look good, too.  How's school by the way?

Teta: Uh... it's all right.  I am passing every class, and the teachers are nice....

Zalbag: Alas, I'd love to stay and chat, but I got suckered into another string of manhunts for prowlers and such.  If I may take my leave....

Ramza: Good luck and God's grace, we shall pray for your victory.

(Zalbag waves goodbye and turns to leave, but pauses)

Zalbag: We've received a pigeon: they demand a ransom.

Agrathi (pissed, hence red text): What's this?!

Zalbag: 'Tis beyond my ken: (pause) these rebels preach death to the nobility and their servants.  Their hatred knows these bounds; they'd have slain poor Elmdor at Mandalia.  Why then would they abduct him for the sake of money?  It runs against their idiom....

Agrathi: Absurd!  They're no more than gil-per-grain brigands and beggars, I say!

Zalbag: The winds carry nothing from the grass planted in their midst. (Pause) Now, I voiced my concerns....  Yet, the nobles believe that our circumstances do not warrant further investigation....

Ramza: (to himself) A true Aquilor never abandons one in need.  (To Zalbag) Brother, where did the grass blow last?

(Note: sugnuf used the Japanese euphemism for spy in the original text.  I think it gives a flavor if you keep it in, and Zalbag and Ramza are among the girls, who might not catch onto the term.)

Zalbag: The Merchant Crossroads of Dorter, south of here, and east of the Abbey of Orbonne.

Note: The Ivalice Map is actually lop-sided, for many Medieval-era maps actually had north pointing to the left, and south pointing to the right.  It's a massive, massive self-perpetuating translation error to think that North, for whatever reason, is at the top of the map, when you pause to consider the range of climates as you head further to the "Right" of the map--that being warmer climates prone to excessive drought and dried salt flat lakes, etc.  It also makes sense when you note the Order of Northern Sky's location and Order of Southern Sky's location: left and right, respectively.  Did anyone else notice this besides me?


I dare say, guarding a castle is such a dull grind, eh {Ramza}?

(Zalbag leaves, having dropped his hint)

Delita: Looks like we have to cut our reunion short, Teta.  We'll resume afterward.

Teta: W-Worry not Delita, I know. (Pause) Make sure we reunite with you in one piece, all right?

(They embrace)

Delita: It's all right, sis, we won't do anything stupid; try to be good and keep Alma outta fights, okay?

(They let go)

We had better move, Aegis.

(Note: sugnuf could not decipher how the first translation incorporated the term Limberry Aegis Knights from what he observed was simply being part of the Marquis' private guard.  However, Aegis is synonymous with the word for guard, so the fancier term still makes sense in this context.  Delita makes it into something of a pet name for the wayward squire, up until their falling out.)

(Delita, Agrathi/Algus/ARGATH/Cocksucker/Asshole, and Teta take off; before Ramza can follow)

Alma: She wasn't telling him everything, {Ramza}.  (Pause) Not that she was lying....

Ramza: Don't tell me: you went and burned the schoolhouse?

(Figured that, since they're teenagers and in school, they have rapier wits of some kind.  Ramza should not be as clueless as he is described in the game.)

Alma: We thought about it for real.... (Pause) see, those witches at school won't leave her alone for, you know....

Ramza: So, those fights....

Alma: Yeah, I shouldn't have said a word of this to a hothead cadet with a pig sticker.  Listen: Teta will be all right, okay?  I'll be there for her.  Trust me.

Ramza: I'm not worried. If worse comes to worst, call me.  Don't over-strain that fist.

Alma: Speak for yourself!  You, the one pushing hard just to meet everybody's expectations!  Be yourself.  (Pause) Names are naught but shackles in love and war.

Ramza: Ha, ha, ha!  A year passes by and you're already sounding like our mother, heh-heh-heh!

(Ramza splits; Alma takes the chill breeze in stride)

Alma Ramza....






http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7519.0

- Best compat does 25% instead of 50% extra dmg, good/bad 12.5%
- Specials can do propositions
- You can change name of human units
- Cursor starts on "Continue" instead of new game
- Equip Crossbow lets you equip Bow+Crossbow
- Equip Sword lets you equip Swords+K.Swords
- Equip Axe lets you equip Axes & flails
- Undeads always come back 100% of the times
- Support above Short charge gives you 25% more precision
- Short charge works on charge
- Arrow Guard blocks Bows, Guns & Thrown Items
- Axes do PA*WP damage
- Party Roster hack
- Move/Jump +3 become Solidify (Walk on Lava+Water, half: Fire & Water) & Ground Aware (Swim + Poison Immunity)
- You can enter the Fur Shop without "Poach"
- Stolen & Broken Equipment can be bought back at the fur Shop V2.
- Player gains less money from winning fights
- Hi Potion heals 20% of HP and X-Potion 33%
- Attack Up/Defense Up/M.Attack Up/M.Defense Up 25% instead of 33%
- Removed randomization from level ups
- Jp Glitch Fix
- Oil Glitch Fix
- P.Down does 25% dmg to undeads
- Charging/performin units do not take extra damage
- Gear scales based on story progression instead of level
- Fist damage becomes PA/2*PA
- MP Switch damage overflows to Hp
- Removed Permanent Br & Faith alterations
- Untruth bug correction
- Martial arts boost is 25% instead of 50%
- Inherent RSM limitation hack
- Elemental weakness reduced to 3/2
- Death Sentence ignores Cancel: Dead
- Job 46: Undead Oracle is mountable
- Remove item duplication (Removes the "Best Fit" feature)
- Blind overrides concentrate
- Haste is 25% speed boost
- Slow is 25% speed loss

Stacking innates like other patches did is a no-go
Giving them better gear and some extra level, however, is fine

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Enchanter-F.png)(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Enchanter-M.png)

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Samu_M.png)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/8y97kk.jpg)

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Rogue_W.png)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2cne6vp.jpg)


You'll have to steal all the "Rare items" during Ch4 fights instead of finding them into the DD
All Zodiacs skillset will be changed into something similar from what you can see in this topic (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8950.0)
You'll be able to return to the world map after killing Altima
DD will be unlocked ONLY after you killed Altima
Finishing the DD will unlock a secret. But I'll keep it secret for now


Like/Don't like something/Have a suggestion? Feel free to post!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on June 27, 2012, 01:29:27 pm
If the Zodiacs all have Damage Split, will that overwrite their unique reaction abilities or will it be in addition to them?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on June 27, 2012, 03:07:35 pm
Quote from: Stretch on June 27, 2012, 01:29:27 pm
If the Zodiacs all have Damage Split, will that overwrite their unique reaction abilities or will it be in addition to them?

They will have damage split as their only reaction
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on June 27, 2012, 03:11:14 pm
I don't like the idea of them having Damage Split unless they have their Vanilla HP values. It'd just make battles longer, IMO.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on June 27, 2012, 03:20:55 pm
How about instead of 100% damage split, they have their own 100% reaction abilities but twice the HP? Give them the HP to provide the same battle longevity that damage split has. They'd still punish you for attacking, but it mixes things up.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on June 27, 2012, 03:56:53 pm
Quote from: Dome on June 27, 2012, 12:45:28 pm
Taking advantage of the fact that I'm going to re-make FFT + from scratch, I'm probably going to change a lot of stuff.


All right.  Where to begin....

Skillset: Throw Stone (PA*2, unevadable, range 4)
Heal: 100% heals Poison, Blind, Silence, Slow - Range 1)
Revive: PA+90% Revive at 1% HP
Cheer Up: Range 3 100% regen, instant
Mend: Small Hp heal, range 1 (MA*2?)
Counter Tackle becomes counter Throw stone
Okay, so Heal/Salve recovers from Slow now.  Salving Stop was far-fetched, but it fit since Panthers dwelt in the region.  The inability to recover Berserk is a major loss, considering that was the motif of those Minotaurs.  If that is subject to change, then the Minotaurs found in Zeklaus Desert and other regions should have another ability or theme.  The power to stop a unit from going out of their mind and helping to compose them made Heal/Salve respectable again.  That should not be removed.

Revive functions like a potential miss Phoenix Down.  Not bad.  I like how it's more likely to succeed.

Mend does not sound all too great, but in 99 games, it's almost passable.  Almost.  Magic*2 is about 30 to 50 by that point.  About the same as a Potion or two.  Better than a potion means better than nothing.

Counter Tackle becoming Counter Throw?  It could clip a crossbowman.  Then again, I find it implausible, unless you evade and toss.  Isn't Throw Stone infallible now?  Even if it is a little damage, it is infallible and knocks the target away.  It would be fun, welcomed change, despite how unrealistic it sounds.

This may work.  No word about Dash or Bulls-Eye, or if they still exist.  I guess this just addresses changes.  Anyway, most of it sounds okay; switching Stop with Slow, infallible stones, and a lukewarm heal.  Overall, the changes sound okay, although there is that lingering doubt about removing Berserk from what Heal/Salve can cure.  If that's the case, why not allow Ramza to heal that instead with one of his abilities?


Hi-Potion and X-Potion heal a % of Hp instead of 70 and 150
And the regular potions?

Actually, I think I just posted about this in the Community Mod, offering percentage-based healing via potions.  I figured the lowest-ranking one would heal the least but add Regen in the process.  It's a consumable version of Cheer Up plus some recovery on the side.  Even so, the Potion could be reconstituted into something else.  X-Potions, if they live up to what they used to do in previous games, should be something you acquire by poaching or spending several thousand gil per pop.

Anyway, implement this and await a studious hacker who succeeds in creating a support ability that doubles the effects of numerical medicines.  I don't understand why the designers never tried to create one of those in the first place.  I suppose that's why we're here?



Remove speed & Magic Ruin, they will be the only class with defend Innate
No magic ruin on Knights?  I suppose it is redundant with Steal MP, but....

Since no-one has yet cracked a way to capping Speed values to a respectable number like 17, I guess you'll just have to get rid of Speed Ruin if it is otherwise redundant with Time Mage's Slow Spell.

Being the only class with Defend Innate means that Defend should return to the Support ability lists.  I assume the Squire or Knight will get it.



Remove Curaja
Whaaaa?


Remove Tier 4 spells & Death, give them Idro, Aero & Quake (Same power as tier 2 spell, Water/Wind/Earth elemental)
Now the Black Mage is finally getting some doomsday spells that are almost reliable.  This brings the number to six--all the essential elements save for Holy and Dark.  This looks interesting so far.  Also, if it isn't a hassle, couldn't you just revert the Flare spell back?  It's goofy to see that flamboyant display but not a satisfying damage roll.


Remove Demi II, buff Demi to 33% instead of 25%, Meteor Removed
Yeah, and I suppose those fuggin' boneheads will spam the new version because...?

You know, Skeletons.  Their regular Anima abilities are crap compared to a gravity well that also restores their health.  Bringing it up to 33% means they have little to no reason to cast an Anima attack unless weather or weakness permit.  Skeletons were very much a "You're-a-Dick!" kind of creature with Gravity, so changing the spell will give them a plus in the long run.


All summons become M-Ev
That's a little more acceptable.  It's almost realistic, or even fair.

By the way, I couldn't help noticing out in Germinas Peak, the White and Black Mages with their Summoner-skilled ringleaders were able to cast Fairy, which revived people en masse, and Salamander, which blew through MP like free beer.  Interesting prototypes, I must say.


Will be the only class with Move-find Item innate
Thank God.  Universal Treasure-Finding prevents a packed-in squadron from claiming anything that a spread-out force can just randomly go a-dada-dada-hey-look-an-elixir!  Like, what the fuck is up with that?


Will get his Br/Fa altering skills back
They're still non-permanent increases/decreases though, right?  In that case, the Oracle could get Foxbird back.  What would the Thief do with Steal Courage?  Is that still around?  It became something wonderful when faced against the Zodiac Bosses, as it dropped their worst possible forms of defense.

Also, if Brave/Faith alterations are still non-permanent, shouldn't there be some sort of penalty for having too much Faith or too little Brave at the fight's end?  Like, you'd get warnings at 15/85% even though it resets after battle, and that if it got too low or high (5/95%) and you finished the fight before it wound down to acceptable levels, the unit would quit the squadron.  It would still be rare, but possible by any means.  That would be worse than a unit becoming a Crystal, but it wasn't explored well enough in the original game, or anywhere else for that matter.  I'd like the threat of that to be on the horizon instead of totally non-existent.

Overall, I like the idea, although the things you changed weren't too bad, either.  Some were far-fetched, like how Preach added Reraise.  That was overkill, an instant-cast Reraise.  Warn was just pathetic; the formula was underpowered.  Invitation is still gone; I guess tricking them in and dismissing them just won't ever happen, huh?

Did you also fix Death Sentence?


Loses Diminish replaced with bio (Non elemental tier 1 spell that might inflict posion), Condemn will chose from better statuses
This is good.  Diminish is utterly useless later in the game.  I would also prevent Condemn from casting certain conditions altogether, like Innocent and Faith.  It also has the nasty habit of casting effects that were gotten rid of in the Oracle spell list (case in point: Undead).  Unless you suffer a conniption and bring Undead back for any reason, it shouldn't ever be on the Condemn roulette wheel.


ALL his skills will be elemental
A little better.  In fact, a lot better.  Counter Flood is now subject to varied absorptions.  It also makes sense, considering there were few if ever geomancy spells from previous games that were non-elemental and any good.  Since they're all the same power, roughly, the non-elemental ones take precedence.

If Hell Ivy is Earth, do you also avoid the Stop effect while floating?  I know I wouldn't be so lucky.


Gets Walk on Water as Innate
See Samurai.


Gets "Swim" as innate
Yippie-kay-yai-yay!


Gets a new skillset made of Curaga, Dark Holy, Death, Areiz, Esuna, Drain, and Meteor
You mean it's the repository of all the top-notch spells from other categories?  Just like before?  Okay, cool.

I suppose Reflect is the bane of White Mage's existence now, while the Sage could care less about it.  I like the idea so far, although the Sage suffers from a definite lack of magical agility.  The most powerful spells take forever to cast.

Sleepga, Frogga, Dispelga, Flarega... are these still in or what?  Does Esuna on the Sage mean the White Mage doesn't have Esuna anymore, or did you mean Esunaga, the complete and instant type?

Hey look, kiddos!  Drain is back!  This is welcome.  Is it the modified version that Beowulf strikes with?  It's lovely either way.

The Black Mage's Flare isn't present because he needs a reliable non-elemental entry since his direct strikes suck.  Good foresight.
If Black Mages cast varied Elemental Spells, shouldn't they also get Rods that Strengthen those elements?  I understand the Ice Rod could add Water to its list and Fire could add Earth, and the Lightning Rod could add Air, even though Air is covered by the late-game Air Knife.  I doubt anyone would fish out the 108 Gems for this purpose.  Then again, the Black Robes could Strengthen all six if need be.  It's up in the air at the moment.


I hope the Sage includes some CT rates that are at least passable, because end-game brawls walk all over (or away from) its best spell ranges.  It's painful to wait that long, like waiting for credit card approval for a bag of cheese doodles.  Seriously.

Another strange problem is that all of the spells, for whatever reason, scroll very slowly from one target to another while the effect takes place, including duplicated spells.  When White Mages cast Curaja, it speeds from one to the next without skipping a beat.  Sage's Curaja?  Much slower.  You can also tell the difference between the Skeleton's Deep Night ability and Sleepga, which makes the Planar Magic Command, for me, grossly inefficient.  If I managed to burn this sucker to CD and get a PSX to choke down the hacks, I would miss my emulation speed-up option on ePSXe.

Anyway, keeping a Sage as the repository of top-grade spells from other classes remains a sound option.  I'm glad you decided against giving Elidibs Math Skill (or did you?).


You won't be able to use his breaks twice with dual wield, gains a custom skill that works like charge, Leg Aim & Arm Aim will deal minor damage & Status
First change sounds impossible if you ask me.  Second change sounds terribly secretive, and adding damage and condition on successful sniper technique makes sense.  I figure the same could happen with Knight Break Skills for equipment.  Take that, Divine Knight!


-All abilities will become a bit weaker-
(They shouldn't strike as hard as a standard hit anyway.)
(Wait, will Brave actually affect the power of direct weapon strikes, including unarmed, with the return of Morale Abilities for the Mediator?)

You'll have to steal all the "Rare items" instead of finding them into the DD
(Will you also be able to find some with the Move-Find Item Innate of the Thief (and related ability)?  Having to Steal everything seems like less of a chore than hunting for the right panel.  A combination of the two is advised, as well as War Trophies that drop more than just Elixirs.

"All rare items nerfed. Still strong, but not so broken anymore."

As they should.  I considered my own hack (or derived game) would incorporate checks and balances to ensure the value of rare items without outshining even mundane, overlooked gems.

"No Weapon will get a WP higher than 16."

Did you do some basic math to determine how powerful a strike you get out of 16?  At 99, Power for your best soldier equals 17, roundabouts.  That's 272 Damage, barring changes.  Double-Grip brings 544, and soldiers with the best Chapter Four gear have at least 600 Health.  That's good.  Now, if Brave is involved with the weapon swing, the mean of 55 means we're about over 272.

Weapons and equipment should get other unusual bonuses or deficits so to make them attractive.  The Thief Hat is a good example.  The Green Beret sucks.  Isn't there a way to give it Direct Aft Evasion, like in FFVI?

"No Shield evade % will be higher than 40."
The Aegis should have nothing but 40% Magic evasion.

"Jump +2/3 removed (Useless)."
I got news for you: I like the ability to leap across chasms and scale sheer cliffs.  Ignore Height lacks this functionality (unless you change it to add Jump +3, in which case I rescind my protest). 

Jump is not as useless as players believe.  It is also getting a proper reboot with ratio evasion adjustments as we saw, but until then, don't jump the gun with what we have now.  Jump +3 is deceptively dandy when fighting in the more interesting areas.  If I had Move+3, I'd still have trouble getting around some places like, oh, say Germinas Peak.  The Slums of Dorter Battle is easier with 4 Jump, as it lets you take the high ground faster, but most characters lack this.  Just because it doesn't add to physical strength doesn't mean it should phase out.  Would the same treatment happen with the Spike Shoes, I wonder.


Axes will return into the game, being usable only by squires or with the "Equip axe" support
Why not Geomancers?

All Zodiacs will have 100 Br, Damage Split & Magic Defend UP/Defend UP
Read the Label, Sick Fuck.
All of them having Damage Split isn't too great, unless you intend to incorporate multiple Reaction Abilities on bosses.  That'd be sicker, but I understand Critical Quick on Cuchullain was an actually risky proposition that forced me to rethink my strategy halfway through the fight.  If I got to that point slower with Damage Split in the way, I don't think I could stomach it.


"All Zodiacs skillset will be changed into something similar from what you can see in this topic (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8950.0)."
Okay, but is it possible to port over the others into the game?  Did someone fashion those sprites, or are they palette swaps of existing creatures?  Either way, I'm looking forward to killing these imbeciles.

"You'll be able to return to the world map after killing Altima; DD will be unlocked ONLY after you killed Altima."
New Game Plus with a twist.  Excellent.  It also pushes the expectation that our protagonist survived that explosion, when his fate should remain enigmatic instead.  I still say that ending was one big Deus Ex Machina overload, a heavy-handed way of driving the author's message home.  Talk about pitch-black.  Probably why we like it so much.  Hence, the change below had better be a really cool secret.  Wicked cool.  Just don't pull any foolish cross-over scheme over our faces.  It would cheapen the experience.

"Finishing the DD will unlock a secret. But I'll keep it secret for now."
Better be worth the update.

Then again, Tactics Plus has inspired me to enter game design in some capacity.  Being a Beta is one, a design document author another.  The current version's balance is far above what others at this site have accomplished, and that includes Rebirth, which says a lot.  The fights are logic puzzles and the options are still strong, even though you still veer towards late-game gear (leveling up is responsible for that.  Suppose armor and helms could increase Health and Magics via percentages instead?), and the secrets you can find further illustrate where the original game shines.  We still need to clear away a few bugs here and there, such as monster melee attacks not provoking Hamedo or Shirahadori grasping every attack in existence, but for now, Tactics Plus is coming along strong.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on June 27, 2012, 04:20:54 pm
A Red Mage that looks like a Red Mage would definitely be the way to go.  Also, that link to the male Red Mage is slick.  The portrait needs changing, so we can request that.  The current Rad is okay but not stunning.  It could be Rad if his Special Class was changed to something else other than Red Mage, like a Brigand Class or lesser Fell Knight.

I partially rescind my doubts.  The sprite that should change is the Onion Knight one.  It's just gross-looking, hate to say.  I know the Class is one of the coolest in the game, once you figure out what you need for it, but oh my God does it suck to look at her.  Alicia and Lavian deserve better.  If this game was rigged to sell, this would not be a selling point until the sprites for Onion Knight change.  Maybe the new Female Knight with the circlet could serve to stand in.  She looks like someone under Agrias' command.  The other one looks like she just saw a Black Mage.

How you go about the changes made with Plus is up to you.  However, remember that the cosmetics of the game serves to pull them in, but it may begin to wear thin or backfire over time.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Joseph Strife on June 27, 2012, 05:46:31 pm
I liked almost everything, except for 2 things.

1- Damage split as reaction for ALL the Zodiacs does not seem cool, i mean, some react in different ways, i liked very much the critical quick on Quekclain or whatever the name is (i'm too lazy to check now) and so on. We could think of better reactions based on their skillsets.

2- if by Swimin the samurai you mean he can take normal actions in water lvl 2 it doesn't make sense. I mean, he is a heavy warrior that wears armor and helmet. The natural thing to think is that when he enters deepper water he sink coz of his heavy weight.

Except thoso 2 i liked everything.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on June 27, 2012, 06:44:23 pm
This post is going to be LONG
Quote from: Eternal248 on June 27, 2012, 03:11:14 pm
I don't like the idea of them having Damage Split unless they have their Vanilla HP values. It'd just make battles longer, IMO.

My idea is to force the player to think and alternate between attacking/healing instead of bringing your most damaging build and zerg rush the boss like there is no tomorrow
I still havent decided on the HP values, that can be tweaked to accomodate our desires

Quote from: Stretch on June 27, 2012, 03:20:55 pm
How about instead of 100% damage split, they have their own 100% reaction abilities but twice the HP? Give them the HP to provide the same battle longevity that damage split has. They'd still punish you for attacking, but it mixes things up.

The battle would still last less and require less thinking
Let's suppose the boss has 100% counter magic
At first you think: "Cool, the boss cockblocks magic user!" but, in the end, it would just mean you equip your best weapon and smack his face with it
Now, If EVERY attack you make inflicts damage on you as well, you actually have to stop and heal, or reduce their brave in some way

@Neophyte Ronin
Re-added Berserk to the list of status Heal removes. Poison, Blind, Silence, Slow, Berserk. Panthers will no longer inflict stop.

Regular potion still heals 30 Hp. It's good at the beginning of the game where your max hp is 50 :-)

No, they will be the only one able to "Defend"
It will be their perk, being able to evade a lot better while coming closer to you

No more tier 4 spells. Frees up space and tier 4 spells were not used that much anyway

Wizards still need an instant cast spell. Also, I don't like the idea of a single spell overshadowing the damage of all the others...so, for the moment, flare stays as it is (Unless you or someone else has a cool idea for the skillset)

Skeletons always had a "special" demi...looks like the Time mage's one, but worked with 33% instead of 25% ;P

Sadly, those are errors. Won't happen in the next version XD

Oracles won't get that spell back, because it does not make sense IMHO: If you want to alter Brave/Faith, bring a Mediator.
Thief is an exception because they "Steal" your courage, which is fun as hell, IMHO
Anyway, Death sentence will ignore Cancel:Dead. Allows the player to exploit the AI, which is unfair

What?

Those spells you named are gone for good, and the esuna they have is the same as the priest
Elidibs with math skill was a fun idea, but made the fight too hard/easy depending on the spells he had...which is not good

Always tought about giving him a new skill...he needs one, and a sniper shot makes sense: You take aim to inflict greater damage on the enemy...right?


- Brave affects only the % of triggering a reaction, not the power of attacks. That would lead to broken numbers
- Each location features 3 good items (On par with what you can buy in stores) and an Elixir as move finds. So bringing a thief along it's always a good thing.
- Some piece of equipment is supposed to be outshined later in the game :-)
- Jump +2/+3 are going to be removed because they suck and they will be hacked into Solidify & Ground aware (Hacking reasons)
- Axes will be Squires only because squires need something unique that makes them usable even in late game (If you don't have monsters in the party, they are useless)

Looks like no one likes the idea of 100% damage split on the zodiacs so far...

Quote from: Joseph Strife2- if by Swimin the samurai you mean he can take normal actions in water lvl 2 it doesn't make sense. I mean, he is a heavy warrior that wears armor and helmet. The natural thing to think is that when he enters deepper water he sink coz of his heavy weight.

That's just a flavour change: Won't make them unbalanced, but I like the idea of samurais being able to overcome rivers to get their enemies thanks to their hard training
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Joseph Strife on June 27, 2012, 07:50:36 pm
Quote from: Dome on June 27, 2012, 06:44:23 pm
That's just a flavour change: Won't make them unbalanced, but I like the idea of samurais being able to overcome rivers to get their enemies thanks to their hard training

Well, it just sounded weird to me, but that's acceptable. :D
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on June 28, 2012, 12:33:10 am
I figured that change was cool from the start, with Samurai and Ninja having Motion Abilities.


If mages lose them, then only Summoners and Arcanists can bypass Reflect with ease.  It becomes their niche; also, Summoners would trump other mages further after summoning Carbuncle.  Meanwhile, Arcanists have spells able to tend reflective units.  A Summoner with Arcanist Sub-Category (or vice versa) would alter the playing field.  It is still possible to bounce spells into a reflecting sucker with another reflecting sucker, but this requires timing and undue finesse; a technique seldom used.  Auto-Reflect on Zodiac Demons crosses the line into Nintendo-Fuggin-Hard.  That might have to happen, too.  Trust me: an auto-reflecting enemy pisses me straight off.

Whereas Arcane Power/Magic Attack Up improves the lesser spells to compete with the stronger spells (hence, you wouldn't really need to cast the high-power spells), Short Charge lets you bolster a class of high-cost, high-power spells able to get around someone's magical defenses, that being Reflect Magic and Equipment.  I suppose that was the reasoning behind Short Charge; it allows top-gear spells at high levels, making them competitive against the clock.  Magic Attack Up is for the cheapskate who cannot afford to wield heavies, while Short Charge makes heavies plausible and thus handy against Reflecting targets.  It also improves all spells across the board, so in that regard it's superior to Arcane Power.


In short, the fourth tier, with all its drawbacks and unpopularity, served a purpose.  Removing Tier 4 Spells due to unpopularity is poor justification; satisfying intentional hacks, on the other hand, might make me withdraw my argument.  Speaking of which, if Jump boosters are useless, why not nix Jump +1 instead of either 2 or 3?


I beg to differ.  The damage from the Skeleton's Demi is one-quarter in the current version (1.01C), as is the Time Mage's Gravity spell.  It never came up because I never knew you wanted them to deal one-third damage in the first place.

Either case, it crosses the line to Nintendo Hard, because trying to nail a Skeleton without life magic was tricky; they would revitalize themselves with Gravity, and they had high Health.  One-Third Health recovery and Damage sounds sweeter than a simple direct strike; for they'll always use it while adjacent to enemy units.  If it was like beating one's head into the wall before....

Now, if Gravity was a Monster Skill-accessed ability, that's a little fairer than adding Deep Night, which gave an undue incentive to recruit Undead en masse (not that acquiring Cursed Rings, Ghouls and Skeletons is a bad thing!).


About Wizard's Flare: In Final Fantasy history, Flare is considered barrier-piercing (i.e. penetrating magical defenses and striking at full force against any target).  Bahamut also dealt Megaflare to all targets and also penetrated defenses, hence his power was often less than usual, even if it seemed superior to other summons of his tier.

Since Magic Evasion should remain on Flare, try a hack that removes Protect, Shell, Defend, Cast, and Perform in addition to regular non-elemental damage.  That would necessitate a lesser-power instant-cast version, or a casting delay at "ra-grade" power.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on June 28, 2012, 12:39:57 am
I don't like Summons being evadeable. At all. I've said that for Arena and I say it here. There should be some form of magic that's reliable, and it should be Summons.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on June 28, 2012, 06:40:59 am
@Neophyte Ronin
- Speed in FFT:+ can't go so high that more powerful spells are useless...but still, short charge is pretty strong
A short charged death while wielding a Faith rod can quickly kill any non-immortal unit, which is good
- Checked the FFTPatcher right now (Just to be sure): Skeleton's demi hits for 30% of Hp.
Which is intentional: I designed Undeads to be very strong: bulky (Damage Split & Constant healing) or very hard to hit (Ghosts)
Still, there are easy ways to kill them: Item and White magic are very common skillsets, and can easily dispose of them (Or even Mustadio, Once you acquire him)
- Dunno if that Flare hack you proposed is possible, at the moment
- So, you propose the wizard's skillset gets 2 flares? 1 instant-low powered one and the strong (vanilla) version?

@Eternal248
I don't remember how summons works in arena, but here they target the whole field, hitting only enemies...I fear they might be too strong once someone finally starts to use them to prevent resurrection & easily damaging all the enemies on the field at once
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 01, 2012, 08:22:00 am
@Dome:

- 30% Health is close enough to one-third (33-34%).  But now that Skeletons have Damage Split, I'm more at ease.  That means I have to take care with my attacks when trying to dispose of them.  Hitting them with Paralyse and following up with non-stop aggression is one method.  I recall that they had Health Restore as a Reaction Ability, not Damage Split (did the Dryad and Skeleton swap due to balancing or that stupid loss-of-foliage visual glitch?).  The new type is more palatable because there isn't a risk of losing one's progress while fighting them.  If they are Critical, they won't cast Health Restore and force me to start all over again.  That was a bitch when trying to kill one, although not necessarily while trying to recruit them.

In short, I'm better off with the Skeletons now than before.  If they get Damage Split instead of Health Restore, that is.

- I hope there is some sort of barrier-piercing blow of some kind.  If you cannot just disregard (multiply by 0) someone's resisting stat (like Magic Defense) while casting Flare, then it should at least get rid of whatever else might be protecting the target.  I don't intend for two Flare Spells back-to-back, although one that's charged and the other instant might be interesting.

What I meant specifically was to incorporate an aggressive big daddy to the current Flare Spell that runs a risk when cast.  The Sage's old Flarega could be reconstructed into a classic Black Mage ala 8-Bit Theater-inspired Point-Blank-Annihilation tactic: all characters on the battlefield, save for the caster, gets hit with unavoidable non-elemental damage that also dispels barriers.  It's like a Meltdown Spell!  They are meant to be risky because it's unavoidable and will kill allies in the process, leaving perhaps only the Black Mage standing among the party.  It's meant to be a spell that you want to prevent if cast by the enemy, or insane if it's a last-ditch effort on part of the heroes.  The caveat is that it takes some time to cast, like a Meteor Spell but a little slower.

@Eternal248
I agree.  However, what Dome says is right: characters who can Summon run the risk of spamming a spell each time you want to resurrect your buddy.  The solution would be to offer reliable methods of resurrection, like improving Phoenix Downs to add a percentage of Max Health so as not to be wasted when an enemy Summoner is around.  The Revive technique is lower in Health output than before, so the instant-cast resurrection devices struggle against summon magic.

I propose an alternative: have Summons deal a percentage of Health damage, dealt a percentage of the time.  If the element is compatible, then the amount can be halved, negated, or absorbed.  In other words, find out how to fix Lich to respond to Half, Negate, and Absorb correctly so the others may follow suit.  Next, have Phoenix Downs heal a percentage of damage that is above the amount of damage cast by a Summon.  Bingo.  Problem solved (except when against two summoners).
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 01, 2012, 03:08:31 pm
Visual glitches MUST DIE. I started to hate them. They make the hack look non-professional. Anyone, please report them if you see one.
Anyway...I can set Flare to ignore Faith & Shell if we need, but still, we need an instant/high mp/weak spell for the wizard. Any suggestion?
(And no more whole-field spells, leave them to the summoner)
P.s: Don't know if what you proposed with the summoner's spell is possible, and I'd like to avoid using more hacks...let's try to use what we have instead of putting more stuff in
P.p.s: What about a manaburn ability for the arcanist (Previous sage)? Could be their instant spell
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 02, 2012, 02:25:05 am
PGF sent me some suggestion on FB
- Remove Remedy & Make every status-removal item remove several statuses

What do you think about it?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Sain on July 02, 2012, 06:32:36 pm
If its not already in use, Dark Holy.  I always felt it would make sense for the Black Wizard to use Dark Holy alongside a White Mage using Holy.

EDIT: And THEN I read the changelog.  Heh, sorry, I've not delved to far into FFT+ and hadn't unlocked the Sage (or obviously read/remembered the changelog regarding the Sage).
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 03, 2012, 02:43:41 am
Multifaceted cures make holding multiple items in inventory a handy venture.  Also, I noticed that, should you deal status effects, the Item Command has one solution for any mishap: Giant Frog.  Remedies are the Giant Frog of the Item Command: the biggest solution to any problem.  It's an absurd notion, as it burns through everything you've done.  I petrified a frog once for overkill purposes but someone still had an Item command, spamming my sculptures.

So I propose that Items do cure a few different ones each time.  The question is what?  Also, will there be other status effects like Immune or Curse like in other hacks?

As for Manaburn, I recall certain fights in FFVI where Manaburning was the trick to beating some peculiar bosses who rode upon Magic like Health.  Manaburn sounds wicked cool for debilitating enemies, but that also suggests that certain characters or monsters can be retooled to die when their MP reaches zero.  Hmm....

Nah, it's too tricky, and requires some other hack!  (Did someone publish a hack that does, I wonder.)

Anyway, the making of Remedies as cure-alls-no-more sounds okay, although a Remedy should still be around for some things.

Type                      Primary                         Secondary

Antidotes                Poison                          Don't Move, Don't Act

Eye Drops               Blind                             Oil (some manner of solvent)

Echo Greens            Silence                         Confusion, Berserk, Sleep

Maidens' Kiss           Turned to Toad              Cursed

Golden Chisel          Petrify                           ??????

Holy Water             Undead                          Vampire, Doom, Curse

Remedy                  Poison, Dark, Silence        Berserk, Slow, Stop, (Squire's Heal but with added effects, expensive, and mobile)

Pheonix Down          Death                           15% Health (double with Medicine Support ability, should that hack exist)

Note: Stop should be difficult to cure.  Literally.  There should only be a few cures that exist, and only a few ways in which it could happen.  It's like temporary petrify except damage is possible.  A few spells and situations should allow it to happen.

Also, there are mere suggestions; I don't know what to put with Petrify and Gold Needle (maybe Stop?) but the Remedy, if still available, should do what the Squire can do, just from a distance.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 03, 2012, 09:21:10 am
Let's see:

Antidote - Poison, Don't move, Don't act
Eye Drop - Blind, Oil, Confusion
Echo Greens - Silence, Sleep
Maiden's Kiss - Frog, Berserk
Soft - Stone, Stop
Holy Water - Vampire, Undead

Nothing should "cure" death sentence: once you get it, only death or ending the battle can "save" the unit
No more Remedy. Removed from the game

Looks good?

P.s: If we implement this hack, we can give back to the player Move MP-UP + MP Switch
Any excess damage from MP Switch no longer goes to waste. It will damage the target's HP if there is any excess.
EX: Attacker deals 150 damage, Defender has 50 MP. The Defender would lose 50 MP (all of it) then receive 100 Damage.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 05, 2012, 12:23:23 am
While that would give female mages a break, it would also mean that MP becomes just another form of HP completely.  If you wish to include that, then you might as well stipulate the effect to correspond to practically every ability that deals MP damage, such as Magic Break.  It may also mean that you may seriously consider spells being cast with HP if no MP exists, which in itself is imbalanced because Health tends to be higher anyway.  It would only be a small dent, unless the prices are readjusted.

Speaking of which, weren't you leery of incorporating new Hacks into the project?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 05, 2012, 02:08:22 am
Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on July 05, 2012, 12:23:23 am
While that would give female mages a break, it would also mean that MP becomes just another form of HP completely.  If you wish to include that, then you might as well stipulate the effect to correspond to practically every ability that deals MP damage, such as Magic Break.  It may also mean that you may seriously consider spells being cast with HP if no MP exists, which in itself is imbalanced because Health tends to be higher anyway.  It would only be a small dent, unless the prices are readjusted.

Speaking of which, weren't you leery of incorporating new Hacks into the project?

Spells casted with Hp? No way >_>
Anyway...yes, I am (Because I fear they might conflict with each other and create bugs) but that hack is awesome, and males/females should both have MP Switch/Move MP-up
Also, I'd like to change female-only equipment so everyone can equip it (And nerf it. No more LOLRIBBONIMIMMUNETOALL)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 05, 2012, 12:45:35 pm
Might want to run a couple of polls before doing that.

Didn't anybody think of devising male-only equipment?  I figure there has to be a method of flagging equipment to decide who equips what.  I sincerely doubt that there are gear in the game that women would want to equip, too.  Why a double standard, Square?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 05, 2012, 01:00:45 pm
Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on July 05, 2012, 12:45:35 pm
Might want to run a couple of polls before doing that.

Didn't anybody think of devising male-only equipment?  I figure there has to be a method of flagging equipment to decide who equips what.  I sincerely doubt that there are gear in the game that women would want to equip, too.  Why a double standard, Square?

Yeah, I'll surely open some pool about it
I tought about it (Aftershave? XD) but I feel the best way to balance it is to allow everyone to equip ribbons and bags (Even if a male Knight with a bag is not manly, at all :-(
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Timbo on July 05, 2012, 04:03:49 pm
QuoteYeah, I'll surely open some pool about it
I tought about it (Aftershave? XD) but I feel the best way to balance it is to allow everyone to equip ribbons and bags (Even if a male Knight with a bag is not manly, at all

It's called a satchel and Indiana Jones wears one!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Kagebunji on July 05, 2012, 05:11:18 pm
Ok, I had WAY too much of this shit. Smart ass ronin or w/e, EVTCHRs aren't something that is easily done, and if you have issues with sprites looking like "animated shit" in CCP, then you better stay the fuck away from saying anything about it, vecause CCP is easily the best patch I played so far, if anything, because of all the sprites changes, new items and all new graphics. A patch is not only about gameplay and rebalancing, graphics are important too. One of the reasons I don't wanna touch many patches is because they are just rebalancing patches, which is good, but grahpic-side is important too, mainly because playing FFT for 12 years with the same icons and effects gets really boring, even if there are new abilities and ton of other Patcher shit included.

I vote fuck yes for new sprites in FFT+, since this is one of the things this patch needs most. Rebalancing and gameplay is importnat in FFT patch, but so is graphical side. Every patch should feel like a fresh experience, and nothing does it better than new icons, sprites and many others. CCP is the best definition of that, so don't you dare talk about "animated shit" in that patch.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on July 05, 2012, 05:15:08 pm
I tend to say I agree with Kage on this. Evtchrs are a freaking mess to edit, and if you aren't going to play a patch because of some frames during events looking weird (hell, some are even funny), then that's a silly reason not to play a patch.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 05, 2012, 05:24:40 pm
Guys, please, there is no need to be harsh with each other
Anyway, looks like the "yes" side won

Now, we just need to decide which sprites we should change...suggestions?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on July 05, 2012, 07:13:07 pm
Which jobs are generally underused? Changing their sprites might give those jobs light of a day in someone's playthrough. Personally, I'd like to change the Samurai (head gear), Male Oracle (headgear/palettes/fat), Chemist (looks fat), Female Thief (looks terribly ill), and Male Geomancer (poor design) jobs. The job classes I mentioned are classes I rarely use when I play, not because of skills, but yeah... bec. of aesthetics reasons.

Perhaps you should start a poll first, Dome. ;3
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 05, 2012, 07:55:50 pm
QuoteAnyway, looks like the "yes" side won.  Now, we just need to decide which sprites we should change...suggestions?


I agree.  I Voted Other; whatever changes are made are ones we can all live with.  I didn't vote "No", but insisted we keep our priorities in balancing mechanics.  Once the new version is set, we just insert whoever we want and forget we went at everybody's throat about it.  We have plenty of time to figure out these decisions.

Since the old one is decided, we put up a new poll.  If it's possible to vote for multiple choices before submitting a vote, then that would help determine the ones we hate and wish to get emergency plastic surgery after driving them off a cliff.

While we're waiting for that, we can suggest the ones we wish to the chopping block, and also suggest how they should be changed.  This is just an indication about which ones seriously need revision.  Then again, none of the suggestions have to be followed by the artist, especially if they already started with some.  We might enjoy what they offer up even more.  I might too, if it stays thematic to the class' idiom and looks good enough to sell.

Here's my wishlist: change both Knights, female Monk, female Thief, both White Mages, both Black Mages, Time Mages (but keep the faces); change Summoners' head-dress at the very least; change female Oracle (make like Greek Oracle of Delphi), keep the Male one; make the male Bard and Geomancer masculine; enhance the Dancer's dervish style; get the parrot headdress off the male Mime.  Recommend simple changes in palette to better make classes fit their idioms.  Under duress, change the Onion Knights to Freelancers, characters I can actually look at and appreciate using, considering their unique perks.

The Knights don't have helmets.  Why?  The new ones I have seen with helms and circlets are actually pretty cool-looking.  I recommend them.

Geomancers don't make any sense stylistically.  Geomancy refers to divination via dust-throwing, like drawing lots but more painful if you're downwind.  Yet, the chest outfits the guys got make them look metrosexual and the girls look like they're wearing a wool-woven poncho.  I must be way off in terms of the style, but they resemble far west American Indians to me.  There is some sort of cultural thing going down with these outfits, but since they lack discernible Celtic underpinnings I associate with oneness-with-nature, I know nothing that comes close to explaining the designers' original scheme.  In any case, the guys have got to go.  If there is one thing I should warn about with Geomancers is that they must not, under any condition, resemble the Geomancers from FFV.  That's a given.

The Bard doesn't look like a tale-spinner or jack-of-all-trades.  He looks like a wuss in a clasped cloak and does not represent the classic handsome, long-haired troubadour whom gets to screw your girlfriend because she insists, even if she comes back to you afterward.  Why did I level-up Samurai and Mediator to look at this prick?

The Dancer?  If we change her, wouldn't that change Celia and Lede as well?  It probably will.  The only thing I can think of is to give the Dancer the appearance of a dervish.  Well, they look it already--just emphasize it more.  Just keep that and add to the waist so there's no mistaking the idea (they're thin just to keep their appeal to an Asian audience unfamiliar with dervishes and belly dancers).

Mimes are odd-looking.  The guys are meant to evoke parrots.  That's the literal, tragic reason behind the stupid-looking get-up.  Ladies dress as the Kitsune of yore, the multi-tailed, shape-changing fox spirits.  I can understand the women, but the men need to look more like Gogo or they'll be the buttmonkey of character class completionists forever.

Note the emphasis on male sprites.  Female Monks do not look enough like true monks of the series because their padded arm-guards  are out of place.  They need to look like one of the monk outfits from FFV.  The guys actually look close enough that they are passable and hence optional to switch out.

Male White Mages should wear their hood.  Just keep their hair short.  Actually, they can wear burlap brown robes since they are on foot and not in a temple.  Females are okay with their outfit--it's the classic model--although if you really wanted to have some fun, they could shorten their hair and dye it red.  That would help to make both sexes distinct from one another, wouldn't it?

The Black Mages should not have circular eyes like that.  Reduce their size and give them a star-shaped luminescence, suggesting that they give off their own light beneath their shadowy attire.  One should wear the pants, but the other should be in the flowing robe.

The new Time Mage, I'm afraid to say, doesn't make a great deal of sense.  Being that Summoners are the next down that path of offense mages, do they get the same treatment?  One thing is for certain: they can get changed around a bit.  Nix the horns at any rate.  Unless we discover the significance of them--there is no unicorn summon--we just nix both of them and fish for a Summoner outfit inspired by another game in the series (Yuna's original) or something different.

The Oracle (Onmyoshi) looks as close to the original eastern Onmyoshi as you're going to get.  If you decide to try making one into the Oracle of Delphi, it'd be the female one.  The guys are fine as is, but give females the Ancient Greece treatment.  Hey, they called them Oracles in the States, right?  Under no condition do we call them Mystics.  That ain't flyin' with anybody.

If the outfits look okay but you want something better, may I suggest palette swapping.  The Male Ninja, for instance, should wear black if he's in Ramza's unit, and that should be fairly consistent throughout all the different palette swaps.  That should be simple to implement.

Female Thieves do look sickly.  They shouldn't look like their male counterparts.  They could wear their bandanas over their head and lengthen their hair a little.  Gearing them towards swashbuckler gear would make sense, considering the empowered offensive ability of Thieves in the current version.  Perhaps they could look like a female version of Zorro!  That would be sick in a whole different way!

The Onion Knights should be called Freelancers like in FFV and look close to decent.  That means giving them a facelift.  I hated the inclusion of Onion Knights in FFTWotL because they were just horrible to look at.  The concept was covered in FFV and also improved upon there.  If Alicia and Lavian are Freelancers, that would be the clincher that would make me say, "let's design an original game together sometime."


If we're changing something, we better make sure the previous version was broken in the first place.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 05, 2012, 08:02:08 pm
The Chemists use them specifically to keep their medicines at hand.

Unless you hacked it, FFVI featured ribbons that anyone could equip.

Changing the name to satchel is very cool.  Don't forget the H Bag was Hydraskin Bag.  That should be the one that Regenerates.  The P Bag is Pantherskin, and should have the Speed.  The Fighting Star Bag is combat-oriented, while the last one, I forget the name.  Anyway, consider a way to get the bags correct; the flip-flop continues even to WotL, when they translated it.  Hydras are regenerating bastards according to Mythology (consider giving them Regenerate when you fight them), while Panthers are super-fast.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 06, 2012, 02:10:55 am
Ok, pool changed
3 votes each
First we will decide which job change, then if the male or female version
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 07, 2012, 12:42:21 pm
"satchel" sounds manlier than "Bag"...Change implemented!
Hydras with regen...why not?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 11, 2012, 05:55:10 pm
Random Idea:
Lighting stab should be Orlandu-only
Agrias should lose Holy Explosion/Lighting stab and gain cure/cure2/raise/Esuna
Name of her job becomes paladin

Y/N?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 12, 2012, 08:05:22 pm
Keep the name, but I was thinking of doing that myself, giving Agrias healing arts (not necessary White Magic; the Squire techniques are still viable) and making Lightning Stab exclusive to the one called Thundergod Cid.  I mean, why not?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Lady Ladile on July 12, 2012, 09:24:51 pm
Random comment from the peanut gallery, but I like that idea as well (and I've not even played the patch yet).  I hate redundancy in skills and I love Agrias, so it'd be nice to see her be her own class and not a weaker version of TG Cid.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 13, 2012, 02:10:31 am
Thanks for the feedback Neophyte & Ladile :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 13, 2012, 09:57:31 am
I have been retooling the entire text file via TactText.  I'm not sure if every change will fly, but I've taken the liberty of renaming the Hokuten and Nanten the Aquilor and Austeron respectively, after a translation by sugnuf, which is found here (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/48627).
The two terms are based on the north and south skies, of which Hokuten and Nanten essentially emulate.  In addition, the Latin term for "East Sky" is Vulturus, and is considered a wind of misfortune.  It so happens that the word Touten stands for east sky, and that is the unit that Gafgarion hails from.

Furthermore, while searching for the term "Sietch", in regards to the Cellar of Sand Rats in Zeklaus Desert, I discovered that it is the term for a cavern and hiding place, used in the Dune novels by Frank Herbert.  In other words, Sietch is from the science fiction lexicon and is out of place in a Medieval lingo, until I spot an alternate meaning behind the term.

I'm not against analyzing the texts of the official games as well as the Japanese-to-English translation that sugnuf has provided.  Eternal248 has also adopted its use; he was the one who referred me.  Most of the text is a matter of spelling and grammar, though it is also prudent to reformat virtually everything; this will take a while, but I'll tell you when I'm done.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 13, 2012, 10:16:40 am
Do not worry, take all the time you need :-)
And feel free to rename stuff if you think it's more fitting: Just avoid shitty things like ARGATH and it will be fine xD
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Taichii on July 13, 2012, 03:07:00 pm
do you need some new custom ability effects dome?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Timbo on July 13, 2012, 03:47:48 pm
I used a version of the Paladin that's similar to the Advance one. He has three swordskills, a curative spell, a status removal spell. It's not terribly interesting on its own but the Dark Knight I have makes for a sick parallel.

Paladin
Holy Blade - range 3 single target swordskill holy element
Saint Cross - range 0 area 1 or 2 swordskill holy element
Inquisitor - range 3 single target swordspell hurts targets with low faith
Inspiring Strike - Range 1 single target sword skill causes faith
Nurse - Single target healing spell
Purify - Range 1 Cures Undead, Blood Suck, Doubt, Berserk
War Cry - Area 2 ally only cause Defend
Santify - slays undead 100%

Dark Knight
Shadow Blade - range 3 single target swordskill dark element
Soul Eater - range 3 area 1 or swordskill dark element damages costs no mp and damages user. Needs existing ASM.
Heretic's Blade - range 3 single target swordspell hurts targets with high faith
Spirit breaker - Range 1 single target sword skill that causes doubt
Canabalize - Single Target Ally only Drain effect no mp cost
Contaminate - Causes Undead
Howl - Cancels Charge/Defend
Desicrate - Charm Undead 100%
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: HebrewToYou on July 13, 2012, 03:48:39 pm
Quote from: Dome on July 11, 2012, 05:55:10 pm
Random Idea:
Lighting stab should be Orlandu-only
Agrias should lose Holy Explosion/Lighting stab and gain cure/cure2/raise/Esuna
Name of her job becomes paladin

Y/N?


Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 13, 2012, 06:39:54 pm
Quote from: Taichii on July 13, 2012, 03:07:00 pm
do you need some new custom ability effects dome?

Yes, I'll surely need some: Namely for Idro, Aero & Quake (Black magic spells)

@Jack
I like that your paladin/Dark Knight are completely opposite one from the other: But I don't think I want to change Agrias & Gaffy's Skillsets so much...

Quote from: HebrewToYou on July 13, 2012, 03:48:39 pm
Agrias should keep Holy Explosion but lose Lightning Stab -- and, as for White Magic skills, I think Cure/Raise would be enough

IMHO we can just re-tool her 3 swordskill instead of giving her 4:
Stasis sword (Range 2, Vertical 2 AoE1, 25% stop)
Split Punch (Range 3, Vertical Infinite, no status)
Crush Punch (Range 3, Vertical 1, 25% dead)

Also, I think I'll give monsters human PA/MA, so I can give them normal spells instead of custom ones (Birds will get Aero instead of Lashing wind, for example)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 14, 2012, 02:52:58 am
Bump!
Only 9 members voted so far :-(
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Lady Ladile on July 14, 2012, 03:06:40 am
I'm assuming all the current sprites are the vanilla ones, yes?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 14, 2012, 05:43:14 am
Quote from: Lady Ladile on July 14, 2012, 03:06:40 am
I'm assuming all the current sprites are the vanilla ones, yes?

Yes
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: skiploom188 on July 14, 2012, 09:19:23 am
I'm just gonna say what jobs I voted for:
-Squire (Something just turns me off with this one, can't really express what.)
-Thief (the FEMALE one)
-Calculator (what is up with that rectangle in their front?)

Feel free to contradict on my opinion, since I'm no hacker.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 14, 2012, 09:23:10 am
No need for anyone to contradict you xD This is a public poll after all, and I want to hear everyone's opinion on the matter
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Taichii on July 14, 2012, 01:06:48 pm
idro aero and quake? XD
what is idro? :p
i like more details on this .. i'll work on this XD
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Lady Ladile on July 14, 2012, 04:16:20 pm
Female Thief - As has been said, she looks like a chemo patient or something
Time Mage - Either one really; what's up with the stupid hats?
Calculator - Either one; big winter coats are not my thing.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 15, 2012, 02:32:38 am
A water spell.  Essentially the Water Elemental Spell that a Black Mage would use.

Dome is also from Italy, so he likely refers to the sub-alpine lake in the provinces of Brescia and Trento, Lake Idro.  Being sub-alpine, I think it has to be a blast of alpine water, subzero temperatures perhaps.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 15, 2012, 02:37:52 am
Regarding female thieves: they should dress in black with bandanas on their faces.

Regarding Time Mages: they resemble Mickey Mouse from his appearance in Fantasia, when he was the youth apprenticed under the magician Yen Sid.  Iconic as that appearance was, its use is still an anachronistic pop culture reference that cheapens the flavor and undermines the value of the character class.  However, if we wish to give them a full makeover, it better not involve giving them black faces with gold eyes.  That's just layering the pop culture references together.

Regarding Calculators: I thought the hairstyles were so mid-90s myself.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 16, 2012, 12:06:24 pm
Squire / Thief / Geomancer / Samurai & Calculator
Most voted jobs ATM
I'll let this poll run for 1 more day, then it will be closed and we will "jump" to the next step
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 17, 2012, 06:49:14 am
Poll closed, those are the results (Bolded names are the sprites that I'm going to change)
Squire   - 3 (7%)
Chemist    - 1 (2.3%)
Knight    - 2 (4.7%)
Thief    - 6 (14%)
Archer    - 2 (4.7%)
Monk    - 1 (2.3%)
Priest    - 0 (0%)
Wizard    - 0 (0%)
Time Mage    - 3 (7%)
Summoner    - 0 (0%)
Mediator    - 0 (0%)
Oracle    - 1 (2.3%)
Geomancer    - 8 (18.6%)
Lancer    - 1 (2.3%)
Samurai    - 4 (9.3%)
Ninja    - 1 (2.3%)
Calculator    - 7 (16.3%)
Bard    - 1 (2.3%)
Dancer    - 0 (0%)
Mime    - 2 (4.7%)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 17, 2012, 06:53:09 am
Now on with the second part of the poll!
Vote which specific sprites you want to kill (xD)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Jon on July 19, 2012, 09:09:19 am
Hmm if you're gonna replace the generics, might as well post my opinion:

In order from the list
Knight -> Kagebunji/Twinees/Mav's Guardians
Thief (female) -> ANYTHING but maybe like R999/Lijj's Female Rogue or something
Samurai -> Lijj's 2 Samurais
Ninja (female) -> Kagebunji's Generic Female Ninja
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Argy on July 19, 2012, 11:52:31 am
Jon,

They are exactly the sprites i am using for my DnD patch!! Though I have kept the femail ninja, only that now she has her blue alternative clothing.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 19, 2012, 07:18:39 pm
Only 8 votes so far...guys? VOTE! XD
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 20, 2012, 11:40:51 am
Finished compiling the data for all weapons
Tell me what you think / suggest any change you want

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2877/axer.png(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2877/axer.png)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/444/bagyh.png(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/444/bagyh.png)

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3709/bowsb.png(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3709/bowsb.png)

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/309/cloth.png(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/309/cloth.png)

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8190/crossbow.png(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8190/crossbow.png)

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/745/dictionaryx.png(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/745/dictionaryx.png)

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6791/flail.png(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6791/flail.png)

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/680/gunu.png(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/680/gunu.png)

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/329/harpzf.png(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/329/harpzf.png)

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5997/katanasrevised.png(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5997/katanasrevised.png)

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/562/knightsword.png(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/562/knightsword.png)

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7962/daggerc.png(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7962/daggerc.png)

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4899/lanced.png(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4899/lanced.png)

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2389/ninjablade.png(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2389/ninjablade.png)

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2383/rodh.png(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2383/rodh.png)

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3517/staffbe.png(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3517/staffbe.png)

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2124/stickj.png(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2124/stickj.png)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6097/swordl.png(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6097/swordl.png)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 20, 2012, 12:21:44 pm
12 votes...that's good
I'll keep the poll opened for one more day, then it's set
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 21, 2012, 02:43:25 am
The Earthbreaker sounds interesting.


The H Bag should be the C Bag, as in Croakadile Bag (gator skin bag).

It's nice to also see a drawback in using the Hydraskin in that it sucks balls when hitting something.

The Fallingstar, however, should have a little extra boon next to the Croakadile Bag, unless there's another feature it could have, because the power doesn't quite sound right.


Interesting: the Perseus Bow has a chance at Charming someone.  I also find its lowered range amusing, as well as power next to the Artemis (and yeah, I think we should change it from Ultimus because the online help describes the goddess of the hunt, aka Artemis or Diana).

The Yoichi looks like shitloads of fun.


Reeling in Evasion on the Cloths is one thing, but I think you missed the different between Persia and Cashmere.  That being there's no difference, period.  I'd outfit my team with Persias for the lowered price.

The Ryozan, on the other hand, looks like a reason to actually use a cloth, because the reduced Evasion makes them a lost cause compared to other lunging weapons.


If a weapon deals Earth Elemental, does Float negate it?  That would make the Gastrophetes a tentative venture.  If the enemy equips Gastrophetes exclusively, all you got to do is cast Float and negate their attack.  At least that's what I've come to understand about Earth and floating foes.  The loss of Double-Shot puts crossbows back on the lower end of the food chain.


The books look flat-out awesome.  The whole scope of Tactics' story is very Lovecraftian in its own way.  The Battle Dictionary is meant for fighting, while the Necro uses the powers of darkness.  It's a nifty gadget for avoiding those losers with three heads, assuming they still have Dark Whisper at the forefront of their abilities.


The Scorpion Tail deals occasional Poison at last.  Good to see the Morning Star come out on top, with a rival in the Scorpion Tail, but they seem to handle pretty much the same.  I've noticed their power levels are roughly equivalent....


The Lamia Harp should have Charm on it instead of Confusion.  The Fairy Harp is unusual.  I love how you nixed the redundancy of two lyres doing a similar thing.

Now, if Holy is the Fairy Harp's venue, should lyres not be available to both sexes so that both may benefit?

Also consider that Perseus is a mythical hero, so a bow of his might have a holy element (then again, Yoichi got Fire...) so it makes sense if his bow has the Holy Element like the Fairy Harp, or just switch them around.


While I would think a few would have their elements switched around, katanas look incredibly cool.  It's pretty close to what you'd expect from a line of elemental blades.  Was the Chirijiraden nixed for some reason?


I thought you made the Materia Blade a Knight Sword.  I liked that idea


Orichalcum is a legendary metal, an alloy of gold and some other metal.  Atlantis had untold wonders, so it's not inconceivable to imagine that the Floater/Levistone in FF lore was based on it.

Meanwhile, Platina or Platinum is a shiny gray-white metal, often used in the armor of purity worn by the Knights Templar in the game.  Purity, I'd expect, would guard against death.

By these connotations, I would think that it would be better to have the Death Protection on the Platina, and give the Jump +1 to the Orihalcon.

The Main Gauche is down but not out; it should, however, be three-quarters on par with the toughest shield, so it should be raised to 25% or so (unless the shields are brought down).

The Mage Masher used to be fun again, but I suppose it was too easy to rend one's psyche before, and you'd always gain it back, which made for easy casting.  I couldn't imagine a caster without one, in other words.  If it reduced MP by your attack but didn't gain it back, maybe then....

All in all, Daggers are returned to the sidearms they once were, which brings doubt to their viability in a fight.


An End-Game arsenal selection with multiple contenders!

The Oberisk (Obelisk is the proper term) has some defensive power, but it should be higher to contend with its cousins.

The Sacred Lance is always a contender for the crown, while the Dragon Whisker is handy for guarding against the elements.  Very cool.

Gungnir is flat-out awesome.  That's the kind of legendary weapon I'd use.

I recommend you consider making most Lances Forced-Doublegrip, save for lightweight models like the Javelin and Mithril.  They should be light enough for use in one hand.  It also causes you to question the merits of latter pieces and their paltry parrying power, while Javelins and Mithrils have the advantage of an optional Shield.  The Gungnir could also be a contender for one-handed use.


Forced Doubles should have power that emulates a Double-Grip so that Attack Boost puts its power a little above a standard Double-Gripped weapon; this should apply to axes as well.


The Spell Edge, called Spellbinder, lost its principal benefit because it's store-bought.  As a compromise, a tuft of magic power should be granted.

If not, then change it back and give another benefit to the Iga like a boost in Speed, or perhaps some other benefit such as enhancing Air and Earth for use in Punch Art.

The Sasuke is pretty cool and looks like a weapon I'd actually search for.


they lost their Evasion stats.  I would retain the 20% on the initial Rod, because while everything else is ornate and enchanted, you don't care what happens to a simple stick.  Furthermore, it's okay to give a mage a decent parrying tool.

The Elemental Rod sounds like a replacement for the Dragon Rod.  I like the Dragon Rod the way it was, barring the summon-Bahamut effect that took it over the edge.  It should have the half-element gig going for it, but it should also retain the name; like the Dragon Whisker, just not as limited in terms of defense.  Just in striking power.

As for the regular Elemental Rods, I would recommend giving them some half-resistance against their native element and then a weakness in another (like Water for Fire, Earth for Lightning, Fire for Ice).


The White Staff ought to be 1 WP if it's designed to Cancel Doom, because there aren't many ways to stop a countdown once it starts.  It's extraordinarily useful if it also guards against it as well, and has a 100% proc rate.

It seems the formulas are standardized to their originals' Magic Weapon style, suggesting to me that the wackier ASMs and hacks employed in previous weapon design has been rescinded.

I can see it in the Sage Staff, whose protections of Silence and Berserk mirror that of the old Magic Ring.

If you ask me, switch the resistances of the Gold and Rainbow Staves, as I can see Ovelia getting hammered with Gafgarion's Night Sword without it in place (unless, of course, his sword techniques aren't even Darkness elemental).

As with rods, give the expendable Oak Staff an edge in Weapon Guarding over its contemporaries.

Finally, and this is probably for the sake of feasibility: I say nix the Dual-Wield capability.  Staves are bigger than rods and not as long as Sticks, but long and heavy enough to preclude agile strokes with one in each hand.  At least, of course, if you disregard characters like Gandalf and the dude from the old game, "The Immortal", but they often had a sword in their main hand.  There doesn't seem to be a way to make a staff/sword combination without having a ridiculous staff/staff combination.


I like how the Octagon neutralizes EVERYTHING, rather than a few random bad things.

The Ivory Rod with Condemn?  I guess its a bone, true, but to pick that into the sucker's skin, that's just gnarly.

The Battle Bamboo is a little conservative in it's combat ability.  It should be stronger.

Iron Fan sounds like something that should strike hard but be forced double-grip.  Also consider an ASM hack where you can reduce a character's stats with equipment, such as speed in this case.

The Whale Whisker's defense against the elements is interesting too, and it says to me that the Magic Ring has been reconstituted into something else entirely.


The Rune Blade should have a boost in Magic or other effect instead of surpassing the lethal-sounding Diamond Blade as the deadliest non-elemental blade in the End Game.  Give Diamond some power like 14, while the Rune Blade gets to do something else at lowered power.

I noticed the Buster Sword became a Sword again.  This is pretty lousy, unless Cloud has innate Double-Grip or something.  Actually, Forced Double-Grip won't even work since it doesn't multiply.  Cloud's weapon is therefore pretty damn sour, for it it is the only way to enable Limit Break Arts.  That's a major step back.


The power levels seem okay in theory, so long as the Level Cap is brought to something like 50 or something.  I don't see these working out later in the game, at 99.  It looks okay so far, a few minor caveats here and there, but other than that, this looks okay to ship.

Also, I'm moving along with TactText work and I'm almost finished.  Let me know if you have specific naming conventions and which weapons are replaced by what.  Also, shout out about names of abilities and equipment I should incorporate.

I'm almost finished revamping the online help and menu scripts, everything but cinema events.  It's taken a while, but I'm satisfied with how it looks inside the program.  I'll have a save file and read the results in-game and get back to you about it.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 21, 2012, 04:21:35 am
As always, thanks for the extensive feedback Neophyte Ronin :-)

@Axes
All get +1 WP

@Bags
Thanks for pointing out that I screwed up the names. Fixing
FallingStar is AWESOME if someone doesn't need to attack but needs extra stats (Geomancy, for example). Also, remember that EVERYONE can equip them now, not only girls

@Bows
Ultimus -> Artemis, got it

@Clothes
Lol, I screwed up. Cashmere gets 12 WP and Persia gets 30% W.Ev

@Crossbows
Yes, float negates earth damage. That gives a reason to use float in the first place XD
Double-hit was cool, but buggy. I want to avoid buggy stuff. Any idea about what we can give to the crossbows?

@Flails
Yeah, you are right.
Whip gets 20 W.Ev and morning star goes down to 10

@Katanas
I assigned them elements with their Draw Out animation in mind :-)
Chirijiraden was both unnecessary and hard to fit. Also, I'm a Sephirot Fanboy and the masamune should be the greatest katana available XD

@ K.Sword
Buster sword is better as a normal sword rather than a K.Sword, and Cloud has 2-Hands innate anyway, so it doesn't matter

@ Daggers:
Implementing your suggestions.

@Lances:
Again, implementing your suggestions

@Ninja swords
Spell edge gains 25% Silence on hit :-)

@Rods: "Rod" get 15% W.Ev
Elemental Rod->Dragon Rod, 8 WP, 2 Hands only
Elemental rods get some more element interacts, I like that

@Staves
Implementing your suggestions

@Sticks
Battle bamboo will get 20 W.Ev and Whale Whisker will be forced 2 hands
Remember that we must give a sense of progression to the weapons :-)

@Swords:
Platinum sword cancels slow, Diamond up to 12 WP, Rune blade down to 9  WP and gets +1MA


@Other stuff
Nah, the level cap is fine as it is: Remember that there are many ways to boost Damage (Attack Up, Double Hand, Charge, Faith, etc etc...)
Do not worry about weapon formatting: I'll work on that :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 21, 2012, 06:09:57 pm
You realize that Earthbreaker is the strongest raw-damage weapon in the game by a noticeable margin, right?  And that Chaos Blade and Defender are both pretty much worthless, right?  Also, from skimming you and Ronin's posts, Float does not negate an Earth Element weapon attack without one of FDC's ASMs. Weapon attacks bypass that check as I recall.

These are just the things I notice from skimming.  I'm not invested enough in FFT+ to do a full look through but I tend to skim most things.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: SWFFT on July 21, 2012, 06:42:56 pm
In my humble opinion, I wish there all the Knight Blades didn't have the same WP as they seem much less unique to me. You don't get the Ragnarock until the very end, so I wish it had something more compelling to make you want to use it in the final battle. I guess I also always liked to think of at least 1 Knight Blade as being the most powerful, so I was surprised that the Chaos Blade has no higher WP than the Defender.

Similarly with Katanas. As you progress through the game and get to unlock more Katanas, I'm a little disappointed that they always all have the same WP (I don't understand the legendary Masamune having the same WP as the Asura Knife, for example). Also, could you expand on dropping the Chiri for being unnecessary? I know I never used it for fear of breaking it, but it's such an awesomely destructive Draw Out that I like seeing it being used against me.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 21, 2012, 07:10:55 pm
Quote from: RavenOfRazgrizYou realize that Earthbreaker is the strongest raw-damage weapon in the game by a noticeable margin, right?

Yes :-) Axes are Squire-only, and they give the player a reason to use Squires even during late-game

Quote from: RavenOfRazgrizAnd that Chaos Blade and Defender are both pretty much worthless, right?

The defender has the highest W.Ev in the game, I'd say it's far from useless, expecially for a store-bought weapon
I agree with the Chaos Blade: Maybe I can give it some status immunity as well?

Quote from: RavenOfRazgrizAlso, from skimming you and Ronin's posts, Float does not negate an Earth Element weapon attack without one of FDC's ASMs. Weapon attacks bypass that check as I recall

Guess I'll have to test it to see if it works as you said or not

Quote from: RavenOfRazgrizThese are just the things I notice from skimming.  I'm not invested enough in FFT+ to do a full look through but I tend to skim most things.

Thanks for your time, every feedback is helpful

Quote from: SWFFTIn my humble opinion, I wish there all the Knight Blades didn't have the same WP as they seem much less unique to me

Considering that you get only one of each Knight Blade (Except the defender, which you can buy from stores) I think they are already quite unique. 15 is the highest WP in the game, which is good too

Quote from: SWFFTYou don't get the Ragnarock until the very end, so I wish it had something more compelling to make you want to use it in the final battle. I guess I also always liked to think of at least 1 Knight Blade as being the most powerful, so I was surprised that the Chaos Blade has no higher WP than the Defender.

1) This isn't vanilla, this is FFT: Plus. You don't get the Ragnarock before the last battle, you steal it from an enemy
2) FFT+ does not end after you defeat Altima, you just return to the world map (And unlock the DD)
3) WP won't get higher than 15, not even for the Chaos Blade. But you are free to suggest what attributes it might have to be more powerful :-)

Quote from: SWFFTSimilarly with Katanas. As you progress through the game and get to unlock more Katanas, I'm a little disappointed that they always all have the same WP (I don't understand the legendary Masamune having the same WP as the Asura Knife, for example). Also, could you expand on dropping the Chiri for being unnecessary? I know I never used it for fear of breaking it, but it's such an awesomely destructive Draw Out that I like seeing it being used against me.

If I give the Masamune higher WP than the other Katanas, everyone will use it period. If each Katana has the same Stats but different elements, you will have to choose carefully each time, which is good
IMHO, there needs to be a weapon type that has all the elements in it, and Katanas are good candidates IMHO (Since Draw Outs will be all elemental as well)
Last, but not least, unless you grind a lot you won't unlock Samurai until late Ch3, and at that point you have most of the Katanas available to you

P.s: I removed Chirijaden because I'm a Sephirot Fanboy and the Masamune must be the "secret" Katana. (I'm serius, that's the reason)
If you still want to see the animation, I can easily use it for an enemy-only skill :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 21, 2012, 07:18:45 pm
Defender still sucks.  For the same reason Chaos Blade sucks - I can get more Attack damage from any standard Sword, and more Swordskill damage from any of the final Swords plus Black Robe.  The W-EV is meaningless because a one-handed sword lets you use a Shield which results in equal or more evasion, M-EV, and usually a secondary effect.  Defender has a very small window where its the best weapon for use with Swordskills and is then useless, and Chaos Blade is just trash considering even Defender is currently better than it.  Defender is also strictly inferior to the Save the Queen - +33% Physical Resistance and 20% W-EV is better than 35% W-EV all the time.  As for Chaos Blade, status immunity is nothing compared to Protect / Shell / Haste, and a Petrify proc is worthless at the point of the game you obtain it, because enemies you can't just out-DPS are almost all immune.

As for the Katana and a LOT of other things I decided to skim a second time... you're doing a lot of design as if this is some kind of Arena patch and ignoring game scaling entirely.  My second skim-through just has me seeing a bunch of mirror-imaged OCD weapons that completely ignore the fact the game exists along a power curve and not a straight line.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 21, 2012, 07:30:47 pm
OCD?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 21, 2012, 07:34:46 pm
>Katana
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 21, 2012, 07:42:50 pm
Ah, ok xD
Yes, Katanas (And K.Swords, but they are another story) do not have a "progression". They all have the same WP.
But...only the Samurai can use them. If you play the game without grinding, you wont have the samurai class unlocked until middle ch3, and by that point you will have most of the Katanas unlocked. No need to make shitty katanas no one will use. Considering that, I decided to gift (Or curse? Your call) them with an element for each weapon (Except the Masamune, which is unique...you have to steal it and it won't have a Draw Out), making them the only weapon class with all the elements available.

While I don't want FFT: Plus to be an arena patch (If you see all the charts, you'll see that most weapons become outdated sooner or later) I like the idea of having 2-3 weapons of each kind that are usable at level 99...is it wrong?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 21, 2012, 08:51:54 pm
Dome, your weapon proposal has a bunch of problems.

Axes:
Earthbreaker has effectively 17 WP with the auto-boost and PA * WP.  Even if you can't use 2 Hands, attack up would be lethal.  Even if it is squire only, that still looks outright broken if you have any skills like Kagesougi / Grand Cross from Arena.

Bags:
There are two H Bags.  But does the bag titled "H BAg" really need to be poachable?  You have effectively 7.5 WP and some status cancels that aren't worth much.

Bows:
Yoichi Bow > All.  There is no legitimate reason why the Yoichi Bow has the same cost as the Perseus Bow, especially when it is easier to get (Poaching vs. Stealing).

Crossbows:
Gastrafitis << Yoichi Bow but has the same cost, especially since longbows aren't forced 2H anymore. 

Harps:
Bloody String > Lamia Harp because any leech effect is the equivalent of at least multiplying WP by 1.5x.

Guns:
Rifle at 4 range and only 12 WP?  Even if it is unevadable, I can use a gastrafitis for the same range and cost, for probably a lot more damage.  Rifle's range is justifiable only if you had +25% petrify (which requires ASM) or 14 WP.

Katanas:
This whole thing feels lazy.  They have an effective WP of 9 at 70 brave and do not scale.  If samurai are intended to be unlocked in the middle of Chapter III, then katanas should still have some degree of WP scaling between Chapter III and Chapter IV.
Also, if Masamune is to be special, shouldn't it have more WP?

Knight Swords:
All knight swords have an effective WP of 10.5 at 70 brave and also don't scale.
Defender's evasion isn't enough to give up a shield.
Having Save the Queen add protect but Ragnarok add shell when the latter is the rarer sword seems out of place unless mages are really THAT strong.  In theory, you want protect and shell at parity.

I'll post more after dinner.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: SWFFT on July 21, 2012, 08:53:27 pm
"2 or 3" seems good, like with the Ice/Lightning/Fire split with the swords. But "2 or 3" seems very different from "all 9" (katanas). Not sure if I follow your logic...doesn't it make more sense to have the Samurai unlocked by the time Katanas are available? In which case, to me, it seems weird that your Samurai will never have a stronger weapon from the time you unlock him/her to the time you are completely finished with this patch (since even the final rare katana, in this case the masamune, is no stronger than the Asura).
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 21, 2012, 08:59:29 pm
Technically, the lack of an element makes Masamune the weakest Katana because it cannot be boosted by Black Robe or 108 Gems.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 21, 2012, 10:27:24 pm
Lances:
Dragon Whisker is actually OP because you halve all three primary elements AND have high WP.  Since 2H and Attack Up doesn't boost jump, we have a weapon that has way too much value on a jumper.

Rods:
Everything Else < Wizard Rod < Fire/Ice/Lightning Rod < Faith/Elemental Rod
Somehow, I don't think the elemental rods being stronger is intended.  Also, Elemental Rod + Equip Armor may prove to be stronger than knights with white robes.

Staves:
The rare staves are terrible.  The Mace of Zeus is just a trumped up Lightning Rod.  The Sage Staff buys peace of mind, but little else.  Neither are worth the same as a Yoichi Bow, really.  While we are on the topic, the cure staff is effectively a Cure1, at 1 range, which MAY trigger counterattacks.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 04:32:15 am
Wow, thanks for all the feedbacks XD
Long post ahead...


@Axe
Many monsters are going to get an element, and at least 2 or 3 will have Earth affinity
Equipping an elemental weapon won't be a surefire way to kill stuff. Also, I will probably implement the hack that makes float neutralize earth elemental weapon attacks
@Bag
Yeah, the name has already been fixed (I just need to update the image)
Bags are joke weapons, I do not care about their damage or real WP since they are so random
@Bow
Again, yes, it's the strongest bow, but still it's fire elemental: An elemental absorb/half will make your damage output very low
@Longbow
Lol, Longbows ARE 2H forced...my bad xD
@Harp
Maybe I should nerf Bloody Strings to 8 WP?
@Gun
12*12=144 on units that are not meant to do damage (Chemists or Mediators)
The rifle is fine as it is
@Katana
Samurai will probably get 2 hands innate back, I still have to decide.
Also remember that the mediator will get his Br/Fa altering skills back, so the damage output of the Samurai (Which can already be boosted by stuff like 108 gems and Black Robe) will be high anyway
@Lance
Should I nerf Dragon whisker's WP to 10? Or just make that you have to steal it so you get only 1?
@Rods
A mage with equip armor loses the use of strong support skills like Short Charge/Magic attack up/Precision in exchange for more Hp...don't know if it's worth the trade
I think the only class that can effectively use that combo is the Mediator, which could have used the support for Precision anyway...
@Stave
Suggestions about what should I do with the last 2 staves?

P.s: Guys, remember;
- In the next version Mediators will get their Br/Fa altering skills back (But the effects last just for the battle...no permanent Br/Fa altering)
- Elements are going to be a lot more important than before
- If you see "Steal" at "availability" it means you can get only one copy of that weapon, during Ch4
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 22, 2012, 04:41:59 am
You speak like this is an Arena patch where I need to compensate for metagames where I don't know every opponent beforehand and can't simply use a different weapon against encounters where my Earth one doesn't work.

The problem is, I can peek into any battle I want, see how its set up, then bring in the things that work best against it while removing the things of my own the don't.  The element affinities are most likely to be drawbacks for the AI since I can actively choose to bring in Element Resistance, Float, etc. but the AI cannot, meaning the most they can do in reply is just make me equip something else for one fight then go back to status quo.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 04:54:50 am
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 22, 2012, 04:41:59 am
You speak like this is an Arena patch where I need to compensate for metagames where I don't know every opponent beforehand and can't simply use a different weapon against encounters where my Earth one doesn't work.

The problem is, I can peek into any battle I want, see how its set up, then bring in the things that work best against it while removing the things of my own the don't.  The element affinities are most likely to be drawbacks for the AI since I can actively choose to bring in Element Resistance, Float, etc. but the AI cannot, meaning the most they can do in reply is just make me equip something else for one fight then go back to status quo.

Well, if you want to spend so much time planning ahead...enjoy the advantages it brings XD
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 22, 2012, 04:58:56 am
That's not really planning ahead.

>Enter battle
>Oh, my EarthBreaker won't work in this fight, lots of Floating guys.
>Soft Reset
>Equip a different weapon
>Enter battle

I AM SO SKILLED.  I AM PLANNING SO FAR AHEAD.  L1 R2 L2 R2 SELECT START, THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS.

...
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 05:06:05 am
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 22, 2012, 04:58:56 am
That's not really planning ahead.

>Enter battle
>Oh, my EarthBreaker won't work in this fight, lots of Floating guys.
>Soft Reset
>Equip a different weapon
>Enter battle

I AM SO SKILLED.  I AM PLANNING SO FAR AHEAD.  L1 R2 L2 R2 SELECT START, THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS.

...

Maybe you brought Earth Clothes as well, and a Minotaur for sinergy
Removing the Earthbreaker might change which unit you want to bring for the battle (Maybe the Squire without the axe is not so useful for your set-up)
Also, this works only for scripted battles (And not every time, since enemy's equipment changes each time you enter it thanks to "<random>" flag in the FFTPatcher) and not for random battles

P.s: Lol at the "Breakfast of champions"
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 22, 2012, 05:36:13 am
Random encounters are things I do for fun assuming I don't skip them.  Unless its a challenge encounter where I'm gonna for a specific encounter roll (11 Monks, eg), they're irrelevant and not what I'm gunning for.  Most often I'm playing the main game, various sidequests, or Deep Dungeon, all of which ARE scripted and are the primary content in your game each player will play through.

And honestly, in a single player game, I'm most likely not going to waste my time on things like that unless they're things that just fit together naturally, like me bringing my DPS Squire with EarthBreaker and my DPS Monk with Earth Clothes.  99% of the time these things don't need to be considered at all and from a player perspective you're better off ignoring them.  Even if I don't need the Axe, I just switch the Squire's primary, slap a different weapon on there, good to go.  Even in the far more difficult mod that FFT+ originally leeched heavily from, you never needed anywhere near the level of inter-party connectivity an Elemental Team brings up, and were often held back if you did so even though those teams were some of the best in AI Tournaments.

In a player's hands, the best team is almost always 5 distinct and fairly self-sufficient units with very few gimmicks.  If you're doing something else, it's mostly because it's cool and for-fun, and not much relevant to the points FDC and I are bringing up.

To bring it back to Katana for a minute as well - "more than two or three" = the entire Katana pool being incredibly boring and mostly the exact same weapon with Masamune being the weakest of all of them, and Samurai having no Attack command scaling whatsoever.  If you're trying to unlock Samurai without grinding, they're still not hard to have unlocked before Chapter 3 because Propositions and a huge number of other things, and you've made it so the Samurai's Attack command starts at the highest point it will ever reach (Asura + Black Robe) and only gets weaker over time because they never get a stronger option but enemy max HP only grows between other gear scaling, and what weapons still do have scaling quickly surpass them.

In general, you seem to have a big issue with scaling - when you consider something "end game", your default option is to just slap the same number on everything.  See: Katana, now have no scaling at all.  See: Robes, all the "end game" Robes all share the same HP, removing Robe HP scaling from half the game.  (There's the random unnecessary Wizard Robe nerf but that's unrelated.)  Knight Swords, despite all being rare, still follow an obtainable and easily tracked progression through Chapter 4, and these also don't show any form of scaling.  Dancer cloths also have this issue, etc.  You're basically designing an Arena game based on your equipment list... then placing the equipment in a game with a very easily traced power scale, and in a lot of cases it just leads to a lot of equipment that's just boring palette swaps of each other. 

You're so concerned about that OCD balance where tons of stuff is viable at "end game" and has roughly the same power you've removed a vast majority of scaling from the entire second half of the game and tossed out a lot of the cool effects that makes weapons in other mods fun.  Things being fun are more important than an OCD balance where tons of things are "viable" at end-game at the cost of them all looking the same, especially in a patch like FFT+ where the balance is there but the game itself is still meant to be kind of easy.  FFT: Arena has currently (and is slated to get quite a chunk more) equipment variance than you're sporting right now and it has no scaling whatsoever, so there's really no excuse for the piles of boring and palette-swapped weapons aside from a lack of ideas.

You're making a mod with a very distinct power scaling through story progression, leveling, etc., designing weapons for an Arena-like mod which has very little to no scaling, and then just kind of dropping the ball with both.  It just doesn't work and it makes the whole thing look boring and kind of sloppy.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 05:50:05 am
Sorry, I read the whole post but I don't have the time/will to answer to everything.
Just pointing a few things:
- Remember that we are discussing about WEAPONS and not other pieces of equipment. We'll talk about them later
- FFT: Plus is going to be remade from scratch. Most of the things you've seen so far might change
- I'm still waiting for suggestions about Katanas/K.Swords and everything else, since I received next to none from you so far (Unless I missed something, which is possible...I'm not perfect)

P.s: With OCD you mean this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder)
P.p.s: If you guys want to see the current status of weapons without scrolling a lot of text/posts, here is the excel file with all weapons' data
Download (http://www.mediafire.com/?x55xuce8sb6l7dd)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 22, 2012, 06:07:21 am
Yes that's what I mean.  I have OCD so I have to actively work against it when designing good weapons or I constantly end up with things like your Katana list.  Once upon a time I'd have tried pushing something like that as actively being good because it makes me feel comfortable, but I know its bad and actively work against what makes me feel naturally comfortable and satisfied because I know it sucks on the design level.

I'm not giving you suggestions because I'm not intimate in any way with most of the stuff in FFT+.  Let the players who know how the classes and such play out give suggestions, I'm just pointing out the stuff that obviously sucks and showing you why it obviously sucks since I know once you fix it, as long as you're doing so because you know WHY it's bad and not just because you're being told to, you'll go over other stuff, go "oh that's probably kinda sucky too" and fix it without needing it pointed out.  There's lots of other stuff I could poke issues with and have been tempted to do, including a number of things FDC brought up, but I don't know exactly how the stats in FFT+ pan out or what skills the classes accessing those weapons have innately so there's no point if there's an actual reason for that kind of imbalance.  (The Axes being Squire-only one is an example of an unseen element somewhat justifying what's been presented, though what's presented is basically the only Axe usable by Squire once its available and is likely the only weapon you'll be keeping on your Squire because of how much better it is than almost everything else, unless there's other relevant changes to the Squire's loadout such as Robe access.)

Basically, since I'm not intimately knowledgable with the patch nor invested in it beyond when I bother to make an autistic splerge post here and there, I'm just gonna tell you something sucks and to fix it and hope you're knowledgeable enough with your own patch to think of an answer to the problem, because someone more invested may not be as willing to tell you "it sucks, start over" because they want that new release.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 22, 2012, 02:52:58 pm
Give samurai equip change so the huge array of elemental katanas is simply an action away in the battle. They can adapt to the battles with all these elemental monsters and deal tons of elemental weapon attacks to monsters.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 02:54:05 pm
Quote from: Stretch on July 22, 2012, 02:52:58 pm
Give samurai equip change so the huge array of elemental katanas is simply an action away in the battle. They can adapt to the battles with all these elemental monsters and deal tons of elemental weapon attacks to monsters.

That's a very good idea!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 22, 2012, 02:55:00 pm
I like the idea of the samurai losing the clunky armor and getting robes, or just anything sleeker really.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 02:57:04 pm
Poll closed!
Bolded sprites are the ones are going to be changed

Squire (Male)    - 6 (6.5%)
Squire (Female)    - 7 (7.6%)
Thief (Male)    - 2 (2.2%)
Thief (Female)    - 8 (8.7%)
Time mage (Male)    - 7 (7.6%)
Time mage (Female)    - 5 (5.4%)
Geomancer (Male)    - 14 (15.2%)
Geomancer (Female)    - 5 (5.4%)
Samurai (Male)    - 11 (12%)
Samurai (Female)    - 6 (6.5%)
Calculator (Male)    - 11 (12%)
Calculator (Female)    - 10 (10.9%)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 22, 2012, 02:57:15 pm
Maybe give the Masamune more attack power in that case? Or make it a 3 panel long attack range so the sword as as stupidly long as it is in FF7.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 03:01:29 pm
Nah, maybe I'll just give it +1PA/MA or something like that
(I mean, I'd like to give it 2 panel range, but I doubt it's doable and the animation would suck)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on July 22, 2012, 03:08:04 pm
Giving it Range: 2 works fine. Just give it 2 Range in the Patcher and change the weapon type to Lunging. The animation will still be a slashing animation, but the katana won't look elongated in battle.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 03:08:52 pm
Really?
Is it tested? Because if it works and the animation does not suck that's it!
Masamune will have range 2 instead of one like the other katanas! (Sephy <3)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: SWFFT on July 22, 2012, 04:02:18 pm
Is there any reason the Katana elements were chosen the way they were other than the animation colors (as in, the type of elemental enemies you'll encounter as the katana becomes available)?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 04:04:00 pm
I decided the element considering the animation
Btw, I'm thinking about making all the katanas available from Ch3 start, since the WP is the same
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on July 22, 2012, 04:04:56 pm
Take it from me, Dome. You do NOT want Arena's system for items/weapons. It's what I originally did for PW and I regret it a ton. Keep weapon scaling for Katana. If you don't, it's going to be a bitch to balance.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: SWFFT on July 22, 2012, 04:10:39 pm
All Katanas available from Ch3 start? Then that also means all Draw Outs available from Ch3 start? Does that mean you're going to make all Draw Outs have equal damage equations?

Also, I liked having Chiri in there since the Samurai seems more like an offensive job than supportive. So, making the rarest & final katana/draw out being a supportive one (Masamune) as opposed to a destructively offensive one (Chiri) seems out of place. If you want to keep all the elements in there for the rest, to me it'd make sense for the final Draw Out to be non-elemental (since there's no reason to favor one element over the other), but make it noticeably more powerful to compensate?

Although maybe I missed it...are all Draw Outs completely changed as well?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 22, 2012, 04:14:00 pm
I'm not going to change it unless someone has a good idea, because I like the Samurai as it is now:
Huge attack power with Innate 2 hands and equip change to swap Katanas in-between battles. A weapon for each element and an awesome late-game weapon (Masamune)

Oh, and yes, all Draw outs will inflict damage (Samurai is an attacking unit) and Masamune won't have one: No element, no spirit to unleash.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on July 22, 2012, 09:18:12 pm
(Ugh. I finally fell asleep after was up since yesterday. Damn sloth.

Anyway, I "should" be working on my own equipment, but I too see problems and given that I saw both formerdeathcorps and RavenofRazgriz already commented, it further gives me an excuse to not be "productive".)

I too haven't exactly followed Plus very much. I've glanced at it from time to time, but given how...sub-par my desktop was (and still kinda is), I never got actually around to playing as with most people's patches or even watching videos of it.

That said, I have looked at the class thing about a week ago, so I'm not completely blind to what you're trying to do here. Similarly, I'm also commenting because I've noticed at least a couple of issues that have arisen with your equipment. In your push to make things more elemental, you seem to be encountering some of problems that I have (and, annoyingly, still am).

Besides what formerdeathcorps and RavenofRazgriz said, some of which I will be reiterating, partly because of how long-winded Raven was in this instance; no, Raven, my merely pointing out the obvious doesn't count as hypocrisy. Also partly because I think some of it's simply important to repeat:


1. Elemental End Game: It's probably for the best if you didn't make the majority of your "strongest" end-game weapons into elemental ones unless you're intentionally doing that to potentially weaken them overall. Even if you are, it's probably still not good, especially since all of your monsters are going to null, resistance and absorb at least 1 element respectively. I'm focusing on elements and, aside from Float (which indeed won't work on Earth-element weapons without some hacking...that I'm not even sure if is worth it), I have only used Null on one thing at the moment.

Regardless, I tend to agree with the idea that formerdeathcorps has (stated elsewhere that) the "strongest" end weapon should be relatively barren of attributes in most instances or, at least, non-elemental. Having rare weapons that are elemental are perfectly fine, though, and it's not like you can't have final weapons be elemental at all, especially since you're still probably focusing on elemental stuff far less than I; that alone should make things easier for you.


2. Self-Strengthening: That said, I actually think is the "real" (read: biggest) problem with your elemental greatest weapons: They all pretty much self-strength (and absorb) their own elements. This even though, IMO, self-strengthening should be largely avoided, at least on things that already have significant amounts of WP. It's fine on things like Rods or other weapons that ("should") have piss-poor WP. But putting it on most of the "final" weapons means they all have 25% more WP than is actually displayed. (And even if you plan on Plus being "easy", having almost all of them also absorb only makes this more problematic.)


3. Axes: I'm just going to echo what everyone else has said about Earthbreaker being egregiously overpowered, especially since it's the only final weapon that both self-strengthens & boost and is commercially available. (No, making it poach-only or even steal/one-of-kind only won't really fix the problem.) It similarly doesn't help that its WP is already higher than the two other Axes, which are otherwise "fine". At the very least, if you're not going to decrease Earthbreaker's power (since having it avoidable by Floating won't really help, like Raven said), then at least decrease W-EV to 10% or maybe 0%. Of course, even that won't really balance it considering it would just make its user easier to hit and thus heal with Earth attacks, but it would at least be a start.


4. Bags: To be perfectly blunt: If this is just a collection of random crap as you said, then why even bother keeping them around? You got rid of Chirijiraden solely because you wanted to. What's stopping you here? That said, P Bag Hydraskin Satchel is fine. The others are utterly outclassed by it, though, at least assuming the Bags still have the same crappy formula where their amount of WP largely doesn't matter. New H Bag is decent enough though, I guess.


5. Longbows: These are okay enough, save maybe the last two. It would be hypocritical of me chew you out for having a "Cupid Bow" in Perseus Bow when I have one that's "stronger", especially since you've already limited the range. But it just seems like it should have at least slightly less WP than it currently has, even if it is already weaker than Ultimus Bow. Yoichi Bow pretty much has the same problem as Earthbreaker, especially with having greater range than all other Longbows.


6. Cloth(e)s: If Persia and Cashmere are the way you say they're supposed to be, then I suppose these are fine since Ryozan Silk doesn't automatically obviate both of them.

7. Crossbows: Gastrophetes seems like it at least be forced 2 hands or something if it's going to outdo both all other crossbows and at least Rifle. Outside of that, Poison Bow seems better than everything else, but considering you're not exactly trying to have weapons be "equal" or anything....


8. Dictionaries: These probably have the only other elemental end weapon that isn't blatantly stronger than everything else in its category, which is frankly as it should since Necronomicon is still the strongest. It's just the other things are actually worth using. Well, as much as Dictionaries/Books/Tomes are worth using in most people's hacks and in vanilla.... (I suppose I should talk considering how overpowered most of my currently are.)


9. Flails: These are fine.


10. Guns: Even assuming these are still unavoidable, these are also pretty much fine, though I concur with formerdeathcorps that Gastrophetes still kinda outstrips Rifle, especially since Rifle is now forced 2 hands (as it should be IMO). Presumably Gastrophetes can still be used with a shield. So, you could either raise Rifle by another WP point, which would "only" raise its damage by another 25, or, better yet, reduce Gastrophetes' WP by a point or two or otherwise reduce its "obvious" dominance.


11. Harps: As formerdeathcorps also pointed out, as always Bloody Strings is better than the other two harps. It definitely needs less WP than the others, though I don't know if it has to be 33% weaker than.


12. Katana: Raven has already pointed out the problem with these.  There's absolutely no reason they should plateau as soon as they appear or that Masamune, the only rare one, should be actively worse than all of them even if they "shouldn't" be usable until Chapter 3 at earliest.


13. Knightswords: Similarly, there's no reason for these to instantly plateau as pointed out or to use Defender over Save the Queen considering that W-EV is physical only and you don't even have to buy Save the Queen like you do Defender. The issue with Chaos Blade is also true. By the time you (probably) get it, its "bonus" is pretty much worthless since its constantly obviated. "Ironically", it would probably be kinda of overpowered otherwise.


14. Knives: I really don't like Zorlin Shape, but I don't like Shock-esque abilities in general, at least as they are originally coded into FFT; the same with Drain abilities, hence my agreement that Bloody String is, always, the only Harp worth using unless you know you'll be fighting enemies that all Undead. Besides that, I don't really have anything else to say since these seem more than decently constructed aside from Air Knife.


15. Lances: Yeah, Dragon Whisker is easily the best one here and pretty much only worth using besides maybe the two elemental ones. There's really no reason this should be a White Robe in weapon form, especially on a unit that already can wear (heavy) armor.


16. Ninja Blades: Ignoring harping on Sasuke Knife, all I really have to say here is that Koga Knife should be easier to get than Iga Knife since Don't Act > Don't Move, especially on a close-range weapon.


17. Rods: I'd argue that Elemental Rod is greater even than Faith Rod since Always: Faith can at least backfire and Faith Rod has the worst WP in the game, which is fitting since Rods should have horrible WP anyway.


18. Staves: Like formerdeathcorps said, these are all rather underpowered, even the "strongest" one of Mace of Zeus and even though they're still MA*WP in your patch. Staves are quite difficult in general, though, especially Healing Staff. Still, something needs to be done, especially since these don't really seem to have that much focus despite having the most Item Attributes of any weapon category. I concur with Neophyte Ronin about White Staff at least, especially since AI probably still won't be able to use it correctly to cancel Doom even if it's 100% cancellation.


19. Sticks: I'm surprised that no one else has said this, but your version of Octagon Rod actually seems like it might be at least a bit overpowered. If it literally cancels "everything", then doesn't that mean it cancels Charging and Performing as well? At 100%? With sizeable damage and range 2? ...Yeah. Outside of that, Gokuu Rod is still pretty damn worthless, though I'm not really blaming you that given the use of the word "still".


20. Swords: I don't really have an opinion on these outside of saying it's "nice" to see Coral Sword get rather large boost and weird to see Rune Blade not boosting MA even by 1. Otherwise, shrug.


P.S. Innate Equip Change on any class is automatically going to make that class the best class in almost every circumstance.

Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on July 15, 2012, 02:32:38 amDome is also from Italy, so he likely refers to the sub-alpine lake in the provinces of Brescia and Trento, Lake Idro.  Being sub-alpine, I think it has to be a blast of alpine water, subzero temperatures perhaps.


Hmmm...I had suspected he wasn't a native English speaker, but given his Internet English is more passable than most Americans--sadly--and quite a few other native English speakers, I never bothered asking. I also never bothered partly because I felt it wasn't any of my business.

It makes quite a bit of sense, though. Not with regards to anything "bad", mind you.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 22, 2012, 11:17:12 pm
Quote from: Eternal248 on July 22, 2012, 04:04:56 pm
Take it from me, Dome. You do NOT want Arena's system for items/weapons. It's what I originally did for PW and I regret it a ton. Keep weapon scaling for Katana. If you don't, it's going to be a bitch to balance.


I recommend listening to this man.  He did the same thing you're doing here, sortof.  I think yours is a bit worse since you're basically making all the numbers the same but it was the same thing.

"You don't do that Eternal, it's not fun to be overwhelmed with options."
"But I want everything end-game viable, it'll be fine!"
"Whatever, bro..."

<Testing starts>

"All this equipment open so soon is overwhelming!"
"I have too many options!"

<On IRC>

"I told you so, Hooves."
"Shut up."



There's also the fact that every single person is posting and telling you how much of a bad idea this is, Dome.  It sounds like you basically want a Mystic Knight and not a Samurai... just make Samurai into a goddamn Mystic Knight and be done with it.  :|
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 23, 2012, 02:16:37 am
Fine, FINE!
Enjoy your shitty, boring Katana progression which weakens the Samurai endgame limiting his options!
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5997/katanasrevised.png)

P.s: Thanks for the extensive feedback The Damned
I'll read it all after I'm back from work :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 23, 2012, 02:24:48 am
I... I...

There are no words.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 23, 2012, 02:28:46 am
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 23, 2012, 02:24:48 am
I... I...

There are no words.

What's the problem now?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on July 23, 2012, 03:42:13 am
(Since you are apparently on the verge of giving Raven an aneurysm and I'm still not doing anything productive....)

I believe Raven's "problem" now is that while you have finally varied Katana...you've made them even worse. If was less about having any type of "progression", especially linearly, then it was every sword basically being the exact same minus the elemental switch; the fact that Masamune was both rare and the worst didn't help. Slight boost to Masamune aside, they're all even weaker now despite the fact that I don't think anyone had a problem with 13 WP, especially given how late you wanted people to get them anyway and how they're still governed by the never-100% Brave.

Additionally, it seems rather kneejerk to just power-down everything rather than address the "problem" that they're all elemental when they don't really have to. Even with all elemental weapons I have for Embargo, I've made sure that at least two or three weapons in every category or non-elemental.

To be more tactful than Raven (in this instance), I'll reiterate something he said: What exactly is it you want to do with Samurai and with Draw Out?

What you do with Katana will pretty much depend on that, and as he pointed out, given what you've said so far, you basically want them a lot closer to a Mystic Knight--think Beowulf but with elemental strikes--than vanilla Samurai. A somewhat bland Mystic Knight whose abilities only differ by what element they are. (I'm not judging you for this given I made the same error when I made Gunner for Embargo a year ago.)

So, yeah. Why exactly are you doing what you're doing with Draw Out?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 23, 2012, 03:58:22 am
To borrow a visual from a friend of mine's anime review (of sorts) (http://neoarkcradle.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1886&p=94208):

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8110/thepointismissedkatanav.png)

The problem was never the other Katana being too strong, it was the clear and obvious laziness and blandness that basically everyone has pointed out.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 23, 2012, 07:46:08 am
Jesus Fucking Christ

I have the strong impulse to completely remove the Samurai once and for all. Always hated that freaking job.
And now, as always, the thing I hate the most is the one that is giving me the most trouble.

Whatever...
My plan is to make the Samurai a great fighting unit, both on the physical and on the magical side
It can do high damage with his melee attacks, or use magical skills that consume Katanas instead of Mp (Since the ASM hack that prevents Katanas from breaking is buggy, it won't be implemented)

Stats
(If you need a "reference" the highest multipliers are 140 Hp/140 Mp/141 Speed/140 PA/140 MA)
Also remember that each job can equip Knives, Bags, and all the accessories
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1782/samurail.png)



Skillset



(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg802/scaled.php?server=802&filename=samuraiskillset.png&res=landing)


P.s: Many animations will be changed...
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 23, 2012, 08:02:57 am
Quote1. Elemental End Game: It's probably for the best if you didn't make the majority of your "strongest" end-game weapons into elemental ones unless you're intentionally doing that to potentially weaken them overall. Even if you are, it's probably still not good, especially since all of your monsters are going to null, resistance and absorb at least 1 element respectively. I'm focusing on elements and, aside from Float (which indeed won't work on Earth-element weapons without some hacking...that I'm not even sure if is worth it), I have only used Null on one thing at the moment.

Pretty much the bolded part.
I want the player to think if it's better to bring the strongest weapon (That can be absorbed/halved/etc etc) or one that is a bit less powerful but does not have those drawbacks

Quote2. Self-Strengthening: That said, I actually think is the "real" (read: biggest) problem with your elemental greatest weapons: They all pretty much self-strength (and absorb) their own elements. This even though, IMO, self-strengthening should be largely avoided, at least on things that already have significant amounts of WP. It's fine on things like Rods or other weapons that ("should") have piss-poor WP. But putting it on most of the "final" weapons means they all have 25% more WP than is actually displayed. (And even if you plan on Plus being "easy", having almost all of them also absorb only makes this more problematic.)

Ok, no more Absorb&Boost on an already elemental weapon. Got it.

Quote3. Axes: I'm just going to echo what everyone else has said about Earthbreaker being egregiously overpowered, especially since it's the only final weapon that both self-strengthens & boost and is commercially available. (No, making it poach-only or even steal/one-of-kind only won't really fix the problem.) It similarly doesn't help that its WP is already higher than the two other Axes, which are otherwise "fine". At the very least, if you're not going to decrease Earthbreaker's power (since having it avoidable by Floating won't really help, like Raven said), then at least decrease W-EV to 10% or maybe 0%. Of course, even that won't really balance it considering it would just make its user easier to hit and thus heal with Earth attacks, but it would at least be a start.

W.Ev of the Earthbreaker back to 10

Quote4. Bags: To be perfectly blunt: If this is just a collection of random crap as you said, then why even bother keeping them around? You got rid of Chirijiraden solely because you wanted to. What's stopping you here? That said, P Bag Hydraskin Satchel is fine. The others are utterly outclassed by it, though, at least assuming the Bags still have the same crappy formula where their amount of WP largely doesn't matter. New H Bag is decent enough though, I guess.

Consider them as stat-sticks. And also as joke weapons

Quote5. Longbows: These are okay enough, save maybe the last two. It would be hypocritical of me chew you out for having a "Cupid Bow" in Perseus Bow when I have one that's "stronger", especially since you've already limited the range. But it just seems like it should have at least slightly less WP than it currently has, even if it is already weaker than Ultimus Bow. Yoichi Bow pretty much has the same problem as Earthbreaker, especially with having greater range than all other Longbows.

All Bows will have range 5, WP of the Perseus bow down to 9

Quote10. Guns: Even assuming these are still unavoidable, these are also pretty much fine, though I concur with formerdeathcorps that Gastrophetes still kinda outstrips Rifle, especially since Rifle is now forced 2 hands (as it should be IMO). Presumably Gastrophetes can still be used with a shield. So, you could either raise Rifle by another WP point, which would "only" raise its damage by another 25, or, better yet, reduce Gastrophetes' WP by a point or two or otherwise reduce its "obvious" dominance.

Rifle WP +1

Quote13. Knightswords: Similarly, there's no reason for these to instantly plateau as pointed out or to use Defender over Save the Queen considering that W-EV is physical only and you don't even have to buy Save the Queen like you do Defender. The issue with Chaos Blade is also true. By the time you (probably) get it, its "bonus" is pretty much worthless since its constantly obviated. "Ironically", it would probably be kinda of overpowered otherwise.

Need more specific suggestions here, cause I don't know what to do with them atm

Quote15. Lances: Yeah, Dragon Whisker is easily the best one here and pretty much only worth using besides maybe the two elemental ones. There's really no reason this should be a White Robe in weapon form, especially on a unit that already can wear (heavy) armor.

Which one do you think it's better?
Dragon whisker halves Holy/Dark
Dragon whisker WP down to 9

Quote19. Sticks: I'm surprised that no one else has said this, but your version of Octagon Rod actually seems like it might be at least a bit overpowered. If it literally cancels "everything", then doesn't that mean it cancels Charging and Performing as well? At 100%? With sizeable damage and range 2? ...Yeah. Outside of that, Gokuu Rod is still pretty damn worthless, though I'm not really blaming you that given the use of the word "still".

The "cancel" is not 100%, is like every other weapon proc (unless I'm not properly recalling how a "Cancel" works when using a weapon)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 23, 2012, 11:08:17 am
Ok, I'm watching the sprites in the "Custom sprites" section and this is what I like most

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Enchanter-F.png)(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Enchanter-M.png)

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Samu_M.png)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/8y97kk.jpg)

(http://ffhacktics.com/sprites/d/Rogue_W.png)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2cne6vp.jpg)


P.s: We still lack an alternate "Female Squire"
Any suggestion?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 23, 2012, 12:52:46 pm
The new sprites look great! My only suggestion is for the new Time Mage, the portrait looks weird. The face hole is too circular and gaping. I like the idea of evolving upon the Black Mage, though. If instead of a hood, the portrait was drawn as a low hat and a high collar, it wouldn't look so weird.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 23, 2012, 01:04:19 pm
If you hate samurais then do get rid of them, call them Mystic Knights and have their job description mention their elemental attacks. I liked the idea of the katanas being the same power with different elements. In other patches and in vanilla, I always wanted broader elemental attack options; yeah the Coral Sword is good against squid demons, but you can't use a weak weapon for too long. If the draw out abilities also target teammates, you can use elemental absorbtion to heal while damaging, adding tactical usefulness.

Calling this idea bland and lazy is glossing over the fact that it would make a class that's unique and operates differently from other classes in this game. I believe the idea would work.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on July 23, 2012, 04:58:26 pm
(Yeah, I don't think anyone's going to fault you for turning Samurai into Mystic Knight if that's what you really want to do.)

That said, considering your Draw Outs are a lot more varied than I thought they would be just looking at your Katana, I have to ask this: Why didn't you want Katana to vary that much?

I mean, having them all be (relatively) the same power and all elemental is perfectly doable, but having them be exactly all the same power and vary only by elemental was the largest part of the problem. Minimal progression is difficult yet workable, but absolutely no progression is just begging for trouble.

So, regardless of whether or not of you decide to make Katana more like their respective Draw Outs or give them varying Item Attributes or turn Samurai into Mystic Knight, I have a couple of suggestions:


1. Lower all elemental Katana's WP ceiling to 12.

2. Raise Masamune by another WP or two.


That way, "ideally", even if you for some reason want all the other elemental Katana to be exact same WP, they don't automatically overpower Masamune before boosting and should only rival it (or slightly outpower) even with boosting. I mean, yeah, Masamune now has Range 2 to help, but that's not really enough. Given how much of a pain in the ass it should be to get from Elmdor still and how it's still only going to be a one-of (and vulnerable to breaking or theft, presumably), even wanting the potential "weakness" to come into play, there's no reason that Masamune shouldn't be the "strongest".

Quote from: Dome on July 23, 2012, 08:02:57 amNeed more specific suggestions here, cause I don't know what to do with them atm


Yeah, Knightswords are rather difficult like Staves, especially considering when you start getting most Knightswords in most patches usually, i.e. not until Chapter 4 begins. As such, there's not much I can suggest, at least off the top of my head, considering I'm still having difficulty with them myself, even though I've "solved" Chapter issue.

That said, maybe lower Defender's WP, (slightly) up its W-EV even more, let it come earlier than the beginning of Chapter 4 and/or give it Item Attribute that helps it not be completely outclassed by Save the Queen's Always: Protect. (It probably should just be "Block: [Insert Negative Status Here]" and not "Always: Regen" or even Initial: Regen. Up to you though.)

Much like Katana, it would probably help a bit to make their WPs at least slightly different.

I'm not really sure what to do about Chaos Blade honestly, especially since I've never liked that overpowered thing. Like I said, even this version would probably be overpowered if it didn't likely come so late in the game that all its Petrify ability was coming up against (in story battles) was bosses immune to that effect. Even ARENA's version has never really been used up until this point.

As such, I guess my only advice here is try to think about when you want people to get Chaos Blade. Then think about what use it can actually have in the story battles after that, where the most important units are likely immune to Petrify (and some other stuff).

Shrug.

Quote from: Dome on July 23, 2012, 08:02:57 amWhich one do you think it's better?
Dragon whisker halves Holy/Dark
Dragon whisker WP down to 9


Well, I don't know what your body armor is going to look like, but of the two, I would say that halving "only" Holy & Dark is way better than obviating White Robes, even with "only" 9 WP. Of course, even with "only" that, Dragon Whisker could maybe stand to take a bit of WP drop. It depends on how many things are actually those elements.

Quote from: Dome on July 23, 2012, 08:02:57 amThe "cancel" is not 100%, is like every other weapon proc (unless I'm not properly recalling how a "Cancel" works when using a weapon)


Nah, it "should" only Cancel 25% of the time without formula 2D% or other coding changes, which is part of the reason White Staff has pretty much always sucked. Still seems a bit overpowered potentially, but as long as it's not 100%, then it's "fine".
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 23, 2012, 07:06:58 pm
Need some time to think on weapons. I'll just post in the first post what weapons look like atm and leave it there for now...
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 23, 2012, 07:34:02 pm
>20% Petrify
>Overpowered

What.




Dome.  You balanced Draw Out fine.  You used every aspect of the abilities to do this well - that is the Element, Y value, Effect Area, Range, Vertical, Status Proc, etc.  Then you get to Katana, which have Range, Formula, WP, W-EV, Element, Skill Proc, Status Proc, innate Attributes as variables and the only one you bothered to use is Element.  You can make most of them at least somewhat usable end-game weapons while keeping a small progressive damage curve if you bothered to use the other 6 variables at your disposal.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 24, 2012, 12:16:15 am
Shouldn't the Rifle actually be a Shotgun due to the small range?

Also, if a weapon has range and is also two swordable, a non-ranged weapon can also hit at the Masamune's range. Deal with that consequence, or make the Masamune forced 2 hands to negate the issue.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 24, 2012, 12:20:56 am
Or you just un-check that box that says "Two Swords" in FFTP...
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on July 24, 2012, 01:15:11 am
(Yeah, no one's asking you to rush yourself, Dome. Just don't be as lazy as me.)

Yeah, it's not like everything within a weapon category has to be useable with 2 Hands or 2 Swords even if most of them all.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 23, 2012, 07:34:02 pm
>20% Petrify
>Overpowered

What.


As I said earlier, Dome put you on the verge of an aneurysm, so I was obviously trying to finish you off.

Seriously, though, we've been over my...distaste for things with damage "proc'ing" Petrify, at least as it is now. "Overpowered" was perhaps a bit of an overstatement though.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 24, 2012, 08:12:26 am
Need feedback on those

Shields
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg545/scaled.php?server=545&filename=shieldsl.png&res=landing)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on July 24, 2012, 10:24:19 am
I would never use the Venetian Shield. =x
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: cingin on July 24, 2012, 10:38:58 am
Really like the variety of specials overall.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 24, 2012, 10:41:58 am
Quote from: Eternal248 on July 24, 2012, 10:24:19 am
I would never use the Venetian Shield. =x

Why?
Quote from: cingin on July 24, 2012, 10:38:58 am
Really like the variety of specials overall.

Thanks, and welcome back Cingin!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on July 24, 2012, 10:44:48 am
Crystal Shield has slightly better evasion and the debuffs Venetian guards against aren't that bad and can be easily removed in the few instances they land.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 24, 2012, 10:46:55 am
So...to which status should the Venetian Shield make you immune to?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on July 24, 2012, 10:52:48 am
Petrify, Undead, Stop, and maybe Crystal/Treasure. Maybe Frog. Things that can drastically alter the course of a battle. Alternately, just increase P-EVD by 10 so it's better (barely) than the Crystal Shield.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 24, 2012, 10:54:05 am
I don't want it to have better evasion than the crystal shield.
But I like your suggestion. I'll make the wielder immune to: Petrify Undead Stop Confusion Frog
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on July 24, 2012, 10:58:49 am
In thinking about it, maybe Confusion should be replaced with Slow, since that's a pain to treat without Haste.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 24, 2012, 11:00:47 am
Quote from: Eternal248 on July 24, 2012, 10:58:49 am
In thinking about it, maybe Confusion should be replaced with Slow, since that's a pain to treat without Haste.

Why not
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: skiploom188 on July 24, 2012, 11:25:17 am
Hmmm, shields... what's wrong with them...

Hmmm...


Well, the Round Shield is always phased out quickly (to a point of not needing one) because of Mythril and Gold Shield's excited and early appearance in the game (Chapter 2). Can't think of a solution about that yet though.

Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: TrueLight on July 24, 2012, 11:45:32 am
Diamond Shield seems a little out of place. The player is only going to have it for 2 fights and then move on to the Platina Shield. Maybe you could add some status immunity so people would use it more.

As for the elemental shields, I say lower the magical resistance. Some people like using spells to heal their allies and its always troublesome when they guard.

Everything else seems good  :)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 24, 2012, 02:09:16 pm
Updated shields
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg72/scaled.php?server=72&filename=shields2.png&res=landing)


P.s: I fear reducing the elemental shields M.Ev would lower their usage. I'll ask if there is an ASM that makes absorbed attack always hit 100%
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: skiploom188 on July 25, 2012, 06:34:48 am
Wait! What I meant about excited was that Gaffy and Agrias had Mythril and Gold Shield at the start of Chapter 2. So the Round Shield gets obsolete.

That's what I wanted to say. Stupid July 24 self.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 06:36:01 am
Quote from: skiploom188 on July 25, 2012, 06:34:48 am
Wait! What I meant about excited was that Gaffy and Agrias had Mythril and Gold Shield at the start of Chapter 2. So the Round Shield gets obsolete.

That's what I wanted to say. Stupid July 24 self.

I can easily change Gaf & Agrias' equipment, do not worry
Also, Guests do not appear in the formation screen, so you can't strip them naked :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: skiploom188 on July 25, 2012, 06:59:21 am
Oh, good. Guests not in formation, forgot that feature.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 07:02:42 am
Quote from: skiploom188 on July 25, 2012, 06:59:21 am
Oh, good. Guests not in formation, forgot that feature.

Yeah
Makes more sense IMHO: They are not official party members, they just travel with you for one reason or another...
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 25, 2012, 12:15:36 pm
The next thing we should see is a list of Classes and what their Abilities are.  I'm reviewing the Excel lists you forwarded right now.  I'll have an answer in a few days.  Gotta study for an upcoming final exam....
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 01:16:11 pm
Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on July 25, 2012, 12:15:36 pm
The next thing we should see is a list of Classes and what their Abilities are.  I'm reviewing the Excel lists you forwarded right now.  I'll have an answer in a few days.  Gotta study for an upcoming final exam....

Real life > FFH
Do not worry, we still have much time left (Without Vanilla Plus the actual work on 1.02 won't start)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 25, 2012, 01:28:00 pm
You don't need Vanilla Plus for 1.02.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 01:31:15 pm
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 25, 2012, 01:28:00 pm
You don't need Vanilla Plus for 1.02.

I already said many times I want to use vanilla plus to make 1.02
If I have to re-do the patch from scratch, I want to use the best possible starting point
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 25, 2012, 01:34:47 pm
You derped and posted the majority of your Eventing-related planning in New Projects for an interest-check and got caught.  You don't need Vanilla Plus for any of that.  There's nothing that will be in Vanilla Plus that you'll need for those kinds of changes which doesn't already exist in either the Status/Item Consolidating Patch or in EasyVent.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 01:50:09 pm
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 25, 2012, 01:34:47 pm
You derped and posted the majority of your Eventing-related planning in New Projects for an interest-check and got caught.  You don't need Vanilla Plus for any of that.  There's nothing that will be in Vanilla Plus that you'll need for those kinds of changes which doesn't already exist in either the Status/Item Consolidating Patch or in EasyVent.

1)
Quote from: RavenAs most of you may or may not know, I've been working on a patch that reorganizes the entirety of FFT into chronological order with better organization of Sidequests/etc, which should make the game far easier to mod in terms of Event Editing, compared to the slapdash organization method the game is in naturally

+ it contains the consolidation patch
Why wouldn't I want it?
I mean, it's not that I'm rushing you or anyone else to complete it. I just stated that I will use that to work on 1.02 once it's finished

2) I scrapped the idea of "Filling the gap". Too much stuff to consider and too easy to screw up something story-wise.
1.02 will have 1 or 2 custom events, but they will take place AFTER you defeat the DD (So, not storyline related at all)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 25, 2012, 02:03:29 pm
So... you don't need Vanilla Plus at all.

If you're not doing events, you don't need Vanilla Plus.  It has nothing to do with pressuring, you just... don't need it.  The entire project itself is almost 100% frivolous and will only really be useful for newbies who begin trying to edit Events after its been completed.  You can wait for it if you really want to, but it's a dumb idea that'll be wasting the time of everyone who'll want to play 1.02 because it doesn't do you any good including it.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 02:37:54 pm
Using Vanilla plus or not won't change the fact that 1.02 won't come out anytime soon, sadly
I need the help of many people to release it, and at the moment they are busy working on other things
Conceptual work, on the other hand, is something that can be done without the help of a specific person...and that's why I created this topic
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 25, 2012, 03:06:02 pm
That's fine, I'm just telling you not to bother waiting if these are your plans.  There's nothing it will include that you need that's not already available elsewhere.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 03:43:17 pm
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4672/armorn.png)
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4568/clothesw.png)
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8379/robeso.png)

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/191/helmetsc.png)
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6623/hatsf.png)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/805/accessory.png)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 25, 2012, 04:27:41 pm
Dome, please stop over-correcting.  The result is something that makes no sense.

1) Non-weapon gear is essentially worthless outside of HP and SPD bonuses.
2) If you have +1 SPD and +1 PA or MA, even the reduced amount of gained HP does not compensate, the +SPD gear is automatically better.  If you want the +PA/MA gear to be balanced with +1 SPD, you need +2 PA or MA.
3) Please do not copy vanilla's approach to accessories.  The result is the majority of them being useless.  What you have is even worse than vanilla because literally nothing other than shoes (+1 Move/Jump or +1 Speed), perfumes (other than Cherche), 108 Gems, and select rings.  At least vanilla gave me decent mantles and +PA or MA options.
4) For a patch so dedicated to elemental attacks, why are you mostly neglecting this factor in your armors?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 25, 2012, 05:50:36 pm
Lol, this is something I drew together in 10 minutes, spare me XD

@Accessories:
Germinas Boots/Sprint Shoes/Red Shoes/Magic Ring/Angel Ring/108 Gems/Elf Mantle/Dracula Mantle/Feather Mantle/Chantage/Setiemson
Those are (IMHO) the best, non rare accessories.
Any suggestion for the "suckiest" ones? Maybe merge them together?

@Armors:
Which Armor/Cloth should gain an element affinity in your opinion?

@About +PA/MA
I fear that giving the player +2 (Or even +3) PA/MA options would lead to excessive PA/MA stacking and turn the middle/endgame into a 1HKO festival, something I want to avoid
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 25, 2012, 09:19:10 pm
Why leave 108 gems the only magic boosting accessory? Give the other accessories some elemental boosts, so you can pick and choose what elements to boost balanced with what status protection you need. Make the item that provides boosts to every element harder to obtain.

Elemental defense could be built into the armor. Equips from chapter 3 onward could have an elemental resistance, and the best stuff could even block an element. Better equips could defend against multiple elements.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 25, 2012, 09:43:36 pm
There's no real issue with +2 PA/MA.  If the end-HP values of units are too low, there's plenty of room for you to adjust  armors to give more HP, and Growths are flat so there's no min-maxing in that regard.  You have full control of the final WP of weapons (which can be kept reasonably low), etc.  It's also a bit counter-intuitive to say you're worried about stacks then let 108 Gems exist when you're trying to ELEMENT ALL DA THINGS.  108 Gems gives something in the range of 3-5 PA/MA+ alone and with how vital you seem to want to make Elements simply becomes a staple accessory.  As it stands, basically all the remaining PA/MA boosting gear is downright unusable and most of the replacements to the ones you removed are also unusable.  For insisting you wanted a variety of weapons viable at end-game, you've narrowed the already slim list of Armors/etc that are end-game viable quite a bit to reduce damage stacks that are already controlled by properly monitoring ability Y values and WP values.

Unrelated, Battlemage Armor is better than every Robe other than in the very rare times you can't use 108 Gems to boost your offense and choose to use Black Robe instead.  An item like Battlemage Armor simply doesn't need to exist - every Armor user is also a Robe user unless you did some really derpy change, so all it serves to do is be redundant.  Salty Rage is also worthless outside of really niche situations.  Basically, a lot of stuff got over-nerfed into not really being all that useful anymore, and that really didn't make any of the already bad stuff more useful, it just made equipment more irrelevant and me even more wanting to go for MAX SPEEEEEEEEED than I already was - something that was already the superior strategy to max damage in the hands of the player.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 26, 2012, 02:27:15 am
Make the power to strengthen all elements unique to a sword like the Nagrarock, 1 WP, all elemental strike, all elemental boost. The other elemental boosting items are scattered throughout the equipments; make them common but weak equipment, or hard to get items. So all through the game, you can balance equipping things for an elemental attack boost, or for more HP or whatever.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 26, 2012, 04:40:17 am
Thanks for the feedback guys :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 27, 2012, 04:44:09 am
...So fucking Tired
Full FFT: Plus Master Guide .xls Format (http://www.mediafire.com/?loxaruce0hlku7t)
Again, need feedbacks.
Feel free to point out whatever does not seem right in your eyes
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 27, 2012, 05:06:17 pm
The Draw Outs should be scaled so that the ones you'd want to use most are the most expensive.  The most powerful ones are also the cheapest. Maybe, give the earth and lightning ones a status as well to compensate? Or just switch up some of the magic power numbers.

I like the swordskill changes. Making them more unique is a good idea.

Perfumes: in this day and age who cares if dudes wear perfume?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 27, 2012, 06:30:09 pm
Draw Out is not that powerful anyway...
Single Target MA*12 Dmg isn't very strong unless you equip stuff to boost fire/stack MA

@Swordskills
Thanks :-)

@Perfumes
LOL! XD
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 27, 2012, 06:42:37 pm
P.s: There is a small error in the Master guide:
Squids are supposed to half Fire, and not Earth
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 30, 2012, 03:39:05 pm
Those are the ASM hacks I'm planning to implement in FFT: Plus
Feel free to discuss/suggest whatever you want about them

- Best compat does 25% instead of 50% extra dmg, good/bad 12.5%
- Specials can do propositions
- You can change name of human units
- Cursor starts on "Continue" instead of new game
- Equip Crossbow lets you equip Bow+Crossbow
- Equip Sword lets you equip Swords+K.Swords
- Equip Axe lets you equip Axes & flails
- Undeads always come back 100% of the times
- Support above Short charge gives you 25% more precision
- Short charge works on charge
- Arrow Guard blocks Bows, Guns & Thrown Items
- Axes do PA*WP damage
- Party Roster hack
- Move/Jump +3 become Solidify (Walk on Lava+Water, half: Fire & Water) & Ground Aware (Swim + Poison Immunity)
- You can enter the Fur Shop without "Poach"
- Stolen & Broken Equipment can be bought back at the fur Shop V2.
- Player gains less money from winning fights
- Hi Potion heals 20% of HP and X-Potion 33%
- Attack Up/Defense Up/M.Attack Up/M.Defense Up 25% instead of 33%
- Removed randomization from level ups
- Jp Glitch Fix
- Oil Glitch Fix
- P.Down does 25% dmg to undeads
- Charging/performin units do not take extra damage
- Gear scales based on story progression instead of level
- Fist damage becomes PA/2*PA
- MP Switch damage overflows to Hp
- Removed Permanent Br & Faith alterations
- Untruth bug correction
- Martial arts boost is 25% instead of 50%
- Inherent RSM limitation hack
- Elemental weakness reduced to 3/2
- Death Sentence ignores Cancel: Dead
- Job 46: Undead Oracle is mountable
- Remove item duplication (Removes the "Best Fit" feature)
- Blind overrides concentrate
- Haste is 25% speed boost
- Slow is 25% speed loss
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on July 30, 2012, 04:57:05 pm
Quote from: Dome on July 30, 2012, 03:39:05 pm

- Undeads always come back 100% of the times


Wouldn't this make the Cursed Ring an awesome item? Inifinite reraise? let them rot to an item 50% of the time.

Quote

- Stolen & Broken Equipment can be bought back at the fur Shop V2.


Is this still horribly buggy, resulting in tons of duplicates of end game items?

Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 30, 2012, 05:23:56 pm
QuoteWouldn't this make the Cursed Ring an awesome item? Inifinite reraise? let them rot to an item 50% of the time.

Cursed Ring IS an awesome item. I <3 undeads
Sadly, undeads can still be easily defeated with items/White Magic/Seal Evil...

QuoteIs this still horribly buggy, resulting in tons of duplicates of end game items?

This ASM received an update (By Choto? IIRC) implementing a check to avoid charmed units stealing your own stuff
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on July 31, 2012, 01:38:48 am
(Doesn't that still mean it screws up if charmed allies break your stuff, then? Or...?)

I'll download the Master Guide later and reply to it then. This may happen as early as tomorrow now though.

That said, I can at least use this time to ask yet more questions:

Quote from: Dome on July 30, 2012, 03:39:05 pm
Those are the ASM hacks I'm planning to implement in FFT: Plus
Feel free to discuss/suggest whatever you want about them

1. Good compat does 25% instead of 50% extra dmg
2. Equip Sword lets you equip Swords+K.Swords
3. Undeads always come back 100% of the times
4. Support above Short charge gives you 25% more precision
5. Short charge works on charge
6. Arrow Guard blocks Bows, Guns & Thrown Items
7. Party Roster hack
8. Move/Jump +3 become Solidify (Walk on Lava+Water, half: Fire & Water) & Ground Aware (Swim + Poison Immunity)


"Luckily", most of these are just asking for clarifications:

1. I'm guessing this means that you're using the hack that turns Best and Worst to 12.5% instead of 25% then, correct?

2. I'm not really sure how I feel about this, though that's a general feeling when it comes to Swords & Knightswords being on the same thing, not just your Swords and Knightswords. I'm guessing you're not changing any of the other Equips besides Equip Sword and Equip Crossbow, right? (The change to Equip [Cross]Bow is fine.)

3. I'm guessing this applies for all units afflicted with Undead, rather just the ones that Always: Undead? Also, if Undead units are coming back 100% of the time, then have you normalized the HP recovery? Considering that Undead can come back with up to full HP.... I suppose it isn't that problematic if you're still having them instantly keel over to Phoenix Down, Raise 2 and Seal Evil, but as I said before, these are mostly clarifying questions.

4. Uh...isn't this still straight additive (as in +25% independent of original value) instead of multiplicative (as in x1.25, like all other standard boosts)? That's most of the reason that I'm not using it anymore....

5. Short Charge affecting Charge...doesn't sit right with me given the nature of Charge, mostly conceptually, despite Short Charge's name, especially since you could just make Charges short in time anyway. It also partly doesn't sit right because Short Charge straight-out halves CT, but meh, I'm probably in the minority, so....

6. I can get behind Arrow Guard absorbing Catch, which I guess means Catch is dead, right?

7. I'm guessing this is the hack that allows you to have 20 party members?

8. Wait, you're using Move +3 and Jump +3 for these respectively? Why not just use Move on Lava or Walk on Water and Move in Water/ Swim respectively? Again, not a huge deal, I'm just curious.


P.S. The image links to your Equipment are all dead.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on July 31, 2012, 02:21:20 am
1
Of course, added

2
If you think I should change some other "Equip X" feel free to speak

3
A little clarification:
Undead monster are immune to both Crystal and Treasure, and so they will come back 100% of the time
Generic units can have the undead status only equipping the cursed ring, which gives immunity to crystal (All human units are immune to treasure)

6
Yes, it's dead

7
Yes :-)

8
Move in water/Swim are innate on some monster
Messing with those abilities will mess with them as well

P.s
Check the Master Guide (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7519.0) or Download it (http://www.mediafire.com/?q3uxckt4bwk968m) if you can't see the images

P.p.s:
Added another ASM to the list
- P.Down does 25% dmg to undeads
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 01, 2012, 06:39:16 pm
Added more hacks to the list, if you guys are interested :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on August 01, 2012, 07:45:16 pm
Why is Undead Oracle #46 able to be mounted?

Oh, wait.  That's right: Boco, the White Chocobo.  Never mind.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 02, 2012, 02:05:02 am
Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on August 01, 2012, 07:45:16 pm
Oh, wait.  That's right: Boco, the White Chocobo.  Never mind.

Which is now Boco... the Blue chocobo!
Why? Because Blue is my favourite Color, and gold is too similar to yellow (FF7 rulez)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 02, 2012, 04:44:35 pm
Last tactical bump
If no one has to comment/add/suggest something about the ASMs I listed, we will move on to the next thing to discuss
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 03, 2012, 03:49:34 am
Ok, so far the master guide is completed and the ASMs to use have been decided
Next point: Boss Battles

Do you think that Human bosses (Like Wiegraf, Izlude) should have Better gear than you/Innates/Higher level? Or maybe all of them? Generic/Special skillsets?
Feel free to discuss/suggest whatever you want about them
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on August 03, 2012, 04:19:35 am
("It might help to say which ASMs are new, Dome, especially since you put Equip Axe in there in between the old ones," he said as he idly began typing two hours ago, before the latest post, while he was doing other things.)

So, I've read through the Master Guide, especially since it's a lot shorter than I expecting compared to...my utterly plain, not-yet entirely detailed but dreadfully long Excel documents. As such, I'll respond to your question about it after I respond to these two quotes and then the new ASMs:

Quote from: Neophyte Ronin on August 01, 2012, 07:45:16 pm
Why is Undead Oracle #46 able to be mounted?

Oh, wait.  That's right: Boco, the White Chocobo.  Never mind.


Yeah. It's pretty easy to forget that, but thankfully pretty much everyone seems to be using that Undead Oracle spot for Boco anyway, regardless of what color he is.

Quote from: Dome on July 31, 2012, 02:21:20 am2
If you think I should change some other "Equip X" feel free to speak

3
A little clarification:
Undead monster are immune to both Crystal and Treasure, and so they will come back 100% of the time
Generic units can have the undead status only equipping the cursed ring, which gives immunity to crystal (All human units are immune to treasure)

8
Move in water/Swim are innate on some monster
Messing with those abilities will mess with them as well


I see. I don't have any other Equip [X] suggestions at present, especially since you have 5 types of weapons I don't even have anymore. You could probably get away with just jacking ARENA's equipment stuff if you wanted to, though. At the very least, due to the fact that you have 18 different weapon types, you could get away with giving every other Equip [X] besides Equip Shield and Equip Armor three weapons to choose from. Up to you, though.

Regardless, it interesting to see you're not using Treasure at all either then. I can't say that I'm surprised given you asked me about the Undead rising thing in the first place. Do you have any intentions to replace it? Not that you have to, obviously, especially since you if wanted to add just want new status you could just use Wall's or Dark/Evil Looking's space, especially since the former has a CT that can be manipulated.

Anyway, I shall now ask for another clarification, though it seems obvious and I think I already know the answer; I'm merely asking this since it's jarring otherwise: Currently, there is no way in Plus to be afflicted with the Undead status save equipping the Cursed Ring, correct?

****

Quote from: Dome on July 30, 2012, 03:39:05 pm
Those are the ASM hacks I'm planning to implement in FFT: Plus
Feel free to discuss/suggest whatever you want about them

[NEW ASMs]
- Equip Axe lets you equip Axes & flails
....
- P.Down does 25% dmg to undeads
- Charging/performin units do not take extra damage
- Gear scales based on story progression instead of level
- Fist damage becomes PA/2*PA
- MP Switch damage overflows to Hp
- Removed Permanent Br & Faith alterations
- Untruth bug correction
- Martial arts boost is 25% instead of 50%
- Inherent RSM limitation hack
- Elemental weakness reduced to 3/2
- Death Sentence ignores Cancel: Dead
- Job 46: Undead Oracle is mountable
- Remove item duplication (Removes the "Best Fit" feature)
- Blind overrides concentrate
- Haste is 25% speed boost
- Slow is 25% speed loss


Can't say I really object to any of this outside of Barefists still being quadratic formula, but damn if I've thought of a solution to that the problem myself really. It isn't exactly alleviating my fears given that even though you took away Monk's innate Martial Arts, you gave them infinitely free Accumulate as a sort of "consolation prize". This despite the fact that it's even more abusive even if it does make sense for it to be on that set. (Well, it actually makes the most sense to be on Charge, but since we can't intermingle Charge with anything yet still....)

Other than the Equip stuff I "suggested" above, I'm not really sure MP Switch being a 1 to 1 thing in Plus is going to work just because you're not planning on upping (raw) MP and/or lower damage that much from what I can tell. As such, I would have to agree with Raven when he chided Glain (or was it Pride?) that a 1-to-1 MP Switch is kinda underpowered, even with Move-MP Up around.

Still, I suppose it could work and it's better than taking it away, so meh.

Would you mind elaborating on "Inherent RSM limitation hack" or at least linking to it? I don't know what you're talking about there at all or recall ever having come across it.

****

Having looked over the Master Guide, I think it's best if I handle things in spoiler since I'm going to comb through it again right now to be thorough. I didn't see many mistakes when I went through initially though, so good job.

The element color-coding is...interesting. Keeps it from being drab at least.

Sigh. I really need to learn more about Excel...:

Generic Human Stat
1. Outside of nitpicking about the minor issue of inconsistent capitalization in the Innate section, I can see nothing wrong in this section. Well, nothing format-wise and grammar-wise, anyway.*


Special Human Stat
1. The same minor nitpick about inconsistent capitalization among the Innate section is the only issue here that I notice.


Generic Monster Stat
1. All three Behemoths are missing the second "h" in their names. I'm assuming that intentional though, just like using "Morbol" instead of "Ma(r)lboro", but I figured I'd point it out since I'm not entirely sure. Everything else looks to be as it seems it should be.


Special Monster Stat
1. I'm assuming that "Dragon" should actually be "Holy Dragon", especially since "Dragon" already seems to be taken by your Class C Dragon in the Generic Monster list.
2. Other than that, the fact that none of the Innate aspects of special monsters are giving is a bit odd coming after the Generic Monster State page, but that's obviously intentional, so I'm not sure you want to change/"fix" that.


Generic Skillset
1. I'm going to seem even more pedantic here, but I have to again urge consistency here. For instance, there's no reason that the Cancel: [Insert Two or More Statuses] shouldn't have commas between said statuses if you're going to bother doing it for Eye Drop; this applies for the far fewer abilities that Add more than one status, like Wall or Freeze. So, please either put comas between all things or don't.
2. Similarly, I will again harp--Bloody Strings yo--on inconsistent capitalization of the two word statuses...and "Mana syphon"...and maybe even Hp & Mp. One or the other for everything please, though those last two don't really matter, per se.
3. When it comes to something of actual substance, the only thing I notice is that if Soul Drain is "Wpn" element, then technically "Steal Mp" should also be "Wpn" element. That said, I'm admittedly unsure how Wpn element would affect that, at least in terms of weakness and resistance/halving.


Special Skillset
1. Presumably, Mighty Sword is missing "Req. Sword" in all of its Special column.
2. Related to that, even if the other "Sword Skills" (from vanilla Holy Knight) aren't "Wpn" Element, shouldn't Holy Explosion be, you know, Holy element still?
3. [Insert more harping on consistent formatting even in the most minor sense here.]


Monster Skillset
1. [Insert more kvetching about commas and consistency here.]
2. The Tier column in Demi's row under Skeletons saw "1-2-4" instead of "1-2-3".
3. Dark Whisper's "6,25%" should be "6.25%".


Weapons
1. [Insert more insistence on comma-use, though with respect to job classes given in blue, here.] Not else to say really given we went over Weapons in this thread already.


Shields
1. [Insert yet more Lamia Harping about comma-use, though with respect to both job listing and the special column this time, here.]
2. Genji Shield is currently misspelled as "Gengi Shield".


Headgear
1. See the first one of the above section.


Armor
1. [Insert slightly more kvetching about commas here.]
2. The bright blue "Equippable by" rows are blank for both Armors and Clothes.


Accessory
1. [Insert final kvetching that combines nagging about comma with the return of consistent capitalization under the Special column here.]
2. "Cherche" is presumably missing its first "h" since it's spelled as "Cerche".



Like said, nothing much that's "major" or even "moderate".

*I'm not sure how innate Move-Find Item on Thief will end up working out, especially given the frequency that Thieves show up as enemies and especially because they have tendency to do so on one-time only maps like Thieves' Fort, Dorter II, Goug and others. You're going to make sure to move the Move-Find Items close to the player party on all those maps.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 03, 2012, 05:03:01 am
The Damned, I love the way you post
Seriously, I like it :-)

Anyway...
- Treasure status is used for monsters. Crystal for humans. But if Boco dies, he crystallizes. Guess why? xD
- Yes, there's no way to have the undead status unless you equip the cursed ring or being a Skeleton/Ghost/Special undead monster
- Inherent RSM limitation hack:
Instead of preventing Chemist & Throw Item / Mediator & Monster Talk / Ninja & Two Swords / Monk & Martial Arts, this hack prevents all inherent abilities from being equipped. So in vanilla it alters nothing, but it will adjust to whatever you do in FFTPatcher. If you're feeling silly, you can do things like giving Knights innate Equip Armor / Equip Sword / Equip Shield to prevent the player from equipping junk. It does not stack with the previous hack; you can't ban specific combos.

It also prevents equipping multiple copies of a single R/S/M ability, which again has no effect in vanilla, but is probably desirable if you're using a "merge Support/Movement" hack.

- Thanks for the grammar-check on the master guide, I'll work on fixing those errors ASAP
- Do not worry about move-finds: Nothing that can be found with Move-find is unique (Except for the Materia Blade)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on August 03, 2012, 05:22:16 am
(Hmmm...that's an interesting take on Treasure and Crystal.)

*palms hidden face*

Oh, right. Inherent RSM limitation hack is the hack that gets rid of such limitations. I should really remember that since I plan to use it; hmmm...now I have the nagging feeling I haven't listed it, but I digress. Still, I guess I'm just used to having it phrased differently.

Sigh. I'm such an idiot.

Quote from: Dome on August 03, 2012, 03:49:34 am
Ok, so far the master guide is completed and the ASMs to use have been decided
Next point: Boss Battles

Do you think that Human bosses (Like Wiegraf, Izlude) should have Better gear than you/Innates/Higher level? Or maybe all of them? Generic/Special skillsets?
Feel free to discuss/suggest whatever you want about them


IMO, Human Bosses having Better Gear and being Higher Leveled than you makes logical sense given how who most of them work for and how pretty much all of them, save perhaps Algus/Argath/Asshole, have way more battle experience than you.

Innates are potentially fine too, though I don't think they should have as many as monsters in most, if not all, instances just because they already have the benefit of being human. That and some innates are extremely irksome, like how Innate Concentrate on 1.3 Izlude bugged the crap out of me, though part of that was because Blind didn't do anything to Concentrate in 1.3. Still, if they get Innates at all, they should only get one or two and preferably not be any of the UP abilities and, more optionally, they should be noted in their job description to encourage people to use the Select button.

I'm not sure what you're asking with "Generic/Special Skillset" since pretty much all Human Bosses have Special Skillsets anyway.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 03, 2012, 09:18:11 am
Quote from: The Damned on August 03, 2012, 05:22:16 am
(Hmmm...that's an interesting take on Treasure and Crystal.)

Thanks :-)
I feel it's another way to make monsters/Humans different (It also has a gameplay purpose: If you want the enemy's gear, you have to steal it)

Quote from: The Damned on August 03, 2012, 05:22:16 am
IMO, Human Bosses having Better Gear and being Higher Leveled than you makes logical sense given how most of them work for and how pretty much all of them, save perhaps Algus/Argath/Asshole, have way more battle experience than you.

I lol'd IRL at the bolded part xD

Quote from: The Damned on August 03, 2012, 05:22:16 am
Innates are potentially fine too, though I don't think they should have as many as monsters in most, if not all, instances just because they already have the benefit of being human. That and some innates are extremely irksome, like how Innate Concentrate on 1.3 Izlude bugged the crap out of me, though part of that was because Blind didn't do anything to Concentrate in 1.3. Still, if they get Innates at all, they should only get one or two and preferably not be any of the UP abilities and, more optionally, they should be noted in their job description to encourage people to use the Select button.

Ok, got your suggestion: Higher level, better gear, and not so many innates (Which have to be listed in the description)

Quote from: The Damned on August 03, 2012, 05:22:16 am
I'm not sure what you're asking with "Generic/Special Skillset" since pretty much all Human Bosses have Special Skillsets anyway.

FFT Plus is a work in progress, we can decide everything:
For Example, I could give Izlude the knight's skillset as primary and jump as secondary to make the fight easier (He would become a "beefed up" knight in this way)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on August 03, 2012, 04:28:29 pm
(Whoops. That first "how" was supposed to be a "who". Fixed.)

Oh, so that's what you meant. I briefly thought that's what you did, but I then thought it couldn't be since, honestly, that seems kinda pointless.

I mean, I could see you would do it to make the fight potentially easier, since I'm assuming that putting it secondary means it's more unlikely for the AI to have all the skills there (for whatever reason). However, that ultimately just seems like more work for you to little actual effect, especially since you're the one determining what the special skillsets hold in the first place.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on August 05, 2012, 03:08:21 am
Though I've been out of it in terms of discussions, I have full confidence that we'll have a new version, discover even less bugs than before, and have some fun with this patch.

Algus/Argath/Asshole... I'm going to remember that one.

Funny you mention that, because I took the liberty of rewriting virtually every word in the original translation, using sugnuf's script and going through everything featured in TactText, hence my slow trickle of posts.  I should submit this for approval: I wish to mow down and neaten up the translation.

There are a few caveats, not the least of which involve the amount of desired profanity and a general consensus on what to name each character.  Most of these are straightforward, although a few were changed for the worse and others for the better, and still a few others are just out there.  I intend to change a couple names here and there and, as a result, I have performed research about where they came up with some of them.

Now, most are eerily similar to combat terms (Meliadoul sounds like Melee and Duel and probably pronounced the same way, a Japanese sort of pun that didn't translate all too well since, to overseas people, it sounds garish and loud).  However, there are actual rhymes of reason behind each one:

Vormav is a Russian word for Thief.  Voorman is a word combining the terms for "Before/in-front-of" and Man, so it could also mean a boss or head of agency.  Yeah, that's pretty literal.  The Russian word is very telling of Vormav, so using the WotL version is off limits.


Rofel is awkward beyond belief.  Loffrey is most likely the intent of the original script, hence we change it.  Now, we could give him a nickname like ROFLCOPTER, but that's just pushing buttons.


His last name, Lachish, refers to the Lachish Letters, a series of ancient correspondences found on carbon ink and clay ostraca.  It may be found at the British Museum in London.  The original term "Rakshu" is a clearly Japanese-sounding transliteration of the word Lachish.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/lachish_letters


For a long time, I thought Meliadoul was pronounced "Melee-Duel" as a typical Japanese pun, sort of like naming characters after food products because they think it sounds funny (over here, we name them after rock musicians where appropriate).

After using Google's search engine, I happened upon the "Melian Dialogue", a conversation written by Thucydides about the response of a neutral island off the coast of Sparta to an invasion by the Athenians as part of a game to spite their rivals.  The similarity between the names was genuine enough for me to incorporate a revision of her name to better capture the origin of the name, and to brush it up a bit: Mellian Diala (fancy female middle name) Tyringel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/melian_dialogue


Celia and Lede/Lettie are gross mistranslations of phrases meant to describe their attire: Celia wears blue and Lede red.  The Romanji for Lede is REDI for God's sake!  How could we have missed that?  I hated Lede/Lettie's name for the longest time and sought to alter it; I dubbed her Liedel, a witch who appeared in the first Ogre Battle game and who doubled as the chronicler (like Alazlam) in Ogre Battle 64.  What can I say?  I'm a fan of Yasuni's work.

Anyway, REDI can be switched to Liedel, although I intend to fix the text to include pet names among these enchanting little succubi; her friend Celia (now called Seria) calls her Rouge, a sexy-sounding variant for the color red.  As for Celia's change, it sounds closer to Cerulean, or indigo, a variation of the color blue, which she happens to be wearing.  In short, the Ultima Demon Assassin girls are named after their fucking outfits.  Could Azrael get any less creative with his cohorts?  Then again, they're likely pseudonyms in place of their true names, which could be used by a savvy magician to bind them to a mortal's will.


Kletian Drowa is fucked-up.  The name is inspired by the French scribe, Chretien de Troyes.  I'll go with that, thank you; both translations failed to capture what it was.


Izlude, or Isilud, are both wrong.  The closest word that comes close is Isolde, better known as the hottie babe in the Tristan & Isolde romantic epic.  Why the fuck is this kid named after the chick, huh?  Fucking Japan, I swear....

But to be honest, Tristan isn't such a bad name, so we'll name him that.  That's his real name, which is alluded to once or twice in my (revised) script, assuming nobody objects.  He gets the name Isolde as a cheap hazing gag on the Knights Templar's part.  Meliadoul will allude to his name during a few of her dialogues during the scenes involving her.


Golgoroth is actually the name of a toad-like great old one in the Lovecraftian tradition, one with a particularly hard stare.  Golgoros and Gorgoroth are close, but Golgoroth is the one we'll use.  It doesn't really matter a whole lot beyond the cosmetic side, as Sir Levigne is a passable name and the Golgoroth is probably just a nickname anyway.


Milleuda is almost there, but not quite.  To be honest, there are several allusions to Old English terms like Weald, which stands for forest.  It's not the Siedge, but rather the Sweegy, yet it's a Weald now.  Relax, it's cool.  Speaking of Old English, while looking up Mildew, I found that it's an Old English word standing for Honeydew (you know, that stuff that aphids leave behind?), before it became associated with sick building syndrome in the modern age.  Milldeua (pet name: Milly) is a slight change that befits her honey-golden hair and once-sweet persona turned rotten and festering from the abuses of the nobility.  It's not a major change, but it is closer to what she's like.


Wiegraf is now Wiglaf.  Fuckin' eh, I mean, really?


A lot of the dialogue has been given a face lift as well.  I noticed that the stolid script lacks a good sense of humor, no matter what translation there is.  The only bit is slapstick and it happens to Mustadio.  In Plus, Mustadio is halfway near being a decent player character, so keeping him the only whipping boy ain't gonna fly.  I just pulled this scene out: it's the brief family reunion.

By the way: if you know if {0xf4} is meant to be a pause in the scrolling dialogue that you press Confirm to continue displaying (saw it used in TactText and I remember it was used in Mustadio's Formation Screen Quote), and that it still works in other programs by virtue of it being legitimate code, let me know.

The Aegis, Agrathi: You should know, the Sadalfas family was once respected and praised just like yours, {Ramza}.  But my grandfather was captured during the Fifty Years' War.  They say he did something unconscionable.  They said he sought to save his own skin by trading those of his comrades.  But, as he left the bastion....  He was stabbed in the back, by none other than a squire just like myself.  One of my grandfather's former comrades escaped and spread the lies around like Germinas wildfire.  Of course, father never believed one word of it.  But everyone else did, and he was deserted... whitewashed.... (tosses stone into fountain) With the rank I was born with... I would never have entertained the notion of an audience with Dycedarg....

Young Girl's Voice: Deeelllitaaa!  Oh, Deeeeellliitaaaa!

Delita (turns): I heard ya the first time, Teta!

Ramza (turns, startled): Whoa!  Alma, Zalbag!  How long were you...?

(They approach together)

Alma: Hey {Ramza}, you never wrote anything about coming home!

Ramza: So brother, did you get my letter about me coming home?

Zalbag: What letter?  (Pause) Never mind that; I only heard you lambasted those thieves in Gariland to a pulp!  That's worthy of our name; I've no doubt our father above is pleased with both of you right now.

Ramza: ...Thanks.

Zalbag: Ha, ha... just the same as always.  Still uncomfortable hearing that... (pause) do me a favor and never change.  So, Delita, looking good; I did hear you're doing all the heavy lifting.  (pause) Teta can't stop chattering about you.

(Teta approaches Delita)

Teta: Yeah, and I'm almost impressed you're still vertical, wearing that suit.

Delita: Heh, I'll take that as a compliment.  You look good, too.  How's school by the way?

Teta: Uh... it's all right.  I am passing every class, and the teachers are nice....

Zalbag: Alas, I'd love to stay and chat, but I got suckered into another string of manhunts for prowlers and such.  If I may take my leave....

Ramza: Good luck and God's grace, we shall pray for your victory.

(Zalbag waves goodbye and turns to leave, but pauses)

Zalbag: We've received a pigeon: they demand a ransom.

Agrathi (pissed, hence red text): What's this?!

Zalbag: 'Tis beyond my ken: (pause) these rebels preach death to the nobility and their servants.  Their hatred knows these bounds; they'd have slain poor Elmdor at Mandalia.  Why then would they abduct him for the sake of money?  It runs against their idiom....

Agrathi: Absurd!  They're no more than gil-per-grain brigands and beggars, I say!

Zalbag: The winds carry nothing from the grass planted in their midst. (Pause) Now, I voiced my concerns....  Yet, the nobles believe that our circumstances do not warrant further investigation....

Ramza: (to himself) A true Aquilor never abandons one in need.  (To Zalbag) Brother, where did the grass blow last?

(Note: sugnuf used the Japanese euphemism for spy in the original text.  I think it gives a flavor if you keep it in, and Zalbag and Ramza are among the girls, who might not catch onto the term.)

Zalbag: The Merchant Crossroads of Dorter, south of here, and east of the Abbey of Orbonne.

Note: The Ivalice Map is actually lop-sided, for many Medieval-era maps actually had north pointing to the left, and south pointing to the right.  It's a massive, massive self-perpetuating translation error to think that North, for whatever reason, is at the top of the map, when you pause to consider the range of climates as you head further to the "Right" of the map--that being warmer climates prone to excessive drought and dried salt flat lakes, etc.  It also makes sense when you note the Order of Northern Sky's location and Order of Southern Sky's location: left and right, respectively.  Did anyone else notice this besides me?


I dare say, guarding a castle is such a dull grind, eh {Ramza}?

(Zalbag leaves, having dropped his hint)

Delita: Looks like we have to cut our reunion short, Teta.  We'll resume afterward.

Teta: W-Worry not Delita, I know. (Pause) Make sure we reunite with you in one piece, all right?

(They embrace)

Delita: It's all right, sis, we won't do anything stupid; try to be good and keep Alma outta fights, okay?

(They let go)

We had better move, Aegis.

(Note: sugnuf could not decipher how the first translation incorporated the term Limberry Aegis Knights from what he observed was simply being part of the Marquis' private guard.  However, Aegis is synonymous with the word for guard, so the fancier term still makes sense in this context.  Delita makes it into something of a pet name for the wayward squire, up until their falling out.)

(Delita, Agrathi/Algus/ARGATH/Cocksucker/Asshole, and Teta take off; before Ramza can follow)

Alma: She wasn't telling him everything, {Ramza}.  (Pause) Not that she was lying....

Ramza: Don't tell me: you went and burned the schoolhouse?

(Figured that, since they're teenagers and in school, they have rapier wits of some kind.  Ramza should not be as clueless as he is described in the game.)

Alma: We thought about it for real.... (Pause) see, those witches at school won't leave her alone for, you know....

Ramza: So, those fights....

Alma: Yeah, I shouldn't have said a word of this to a hothead cadet with a pig sticker.  Listen: Teta will be all right, okay?  I'll be there for her.  Trust me.

Ramza: I'm not worried. If worse comes to worst, call me.  Don't over-strain that fist.

Alma: Speak for yourself!  You, the one pushing hard just to meet everybody's expectations!  Be yourself.  (Pause) Names are naught but shackles in love and war.

Ramza: Ha, ha, ha!  A year passes by and you're already sounding like our mother, heh-heh-heh!

(Ramza splits; Alma takes the chill breeze in stride)

Alma Ramza....




Now, for boss battles, they have to be thematic, true, but that also means you have to be able to prepare for their worst tricks.  Make sure there is a way to stave off the nasty and that the Reaction Abilities chosen fit the boss' idiom.  Critical Quick can be a painful occurrence at the wrong moment, for example.

EDIT by FDC: I had to edit your post because spoiler tag titles cannot contain apostrophes or they won't open when clicked.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 05, 2012, 03:50:52 am
I think that the general consensus about boss battles is that stacking too many innates is a no-go, and giving them a little better gear/some extra level is the way to go

So, we move to the next point of discussion: The new script
As you may (Or may not) know, Neophyte Ronin is working on a new script, which will better translate the game from the japanese version without being shitty/boring/whatever like the WOTL version
In the process, he is probably going to change some special character's name as well
Refer to the post above to see about what I'm talking about

P.s: Thanks for the fix FDC
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on August 05, 2012, 03:59:26 am
Someone's name being Redi doesn't automatically mean the intent was a red pun, you know. f you know anything about how the Japanese language works, you'd know that the Japanese lack certain sounds that we have in English (such as the letter L) and will substitute other sounds for them, which can result in wonky translations if the translator chooses to interpret those sounds in certain ways.  For example, L sounds in English are replaced by the R sound in Japanese.  Thus, Redi = Ledi = Lede = Lettie is a fairly believable and logical progression for the name.  I actually hate the name Lettie, but your logic on it being a Red/Blue joke is incredibly faulty, especially considering Celia's is nothing close to any form of the color blue.  You mention Cerulean, which you could stretch to being Ceria and in turn Celia, but you're grasping some serious straws when you consider they could've chosen much better and more obvious names to match "REDI" if they wanted color puns.

Also, you can't have spoilers with apostrophes in them, Ronin.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 05, 2012, 04:03:54 am
I have no knowledge in japanese & other stuff, but the whole Red/Blue thing made me lol hard IRL, I think it's nice
After all, the assassins are just powerful killing tools with no personality, and having their names related to their clothes makes sense (IMHO)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on August 05, 2012, 11:12:25 am
Seria sounds too much like Syria, which isn't a nice thing to be reminded of nowadays.

Izlude to Tristan? If you aren't giving him a symbolic name, why choose one that's bland and modern? What about giving Izlude a name that pairs with Mellian.

Wiegraf sounds germanic and strong; Wiglif sounds like a tele-tubbie. Not every case of japanese r/l swapping is bad.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 05, 2012, 01:55:25 pm
I don't care about the Seria/Syria parallel, but I have to agree with the other things Stretch said
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on August 06, 2012, 12:16:31 am
I'm open to suggestions about what Izlude's name could be, but that was what I got out of research: the better half of a romantic epic.  Unless Izlude/Isilud alludes to something of Arabic origin, I considered changing it to that.  Besides, I was going to write it as though Izlude/Isilud/Isolde is but a pet name, and that his real name is rarely spoken, enough so that his pet name is what appears as his unit name.  If that avenue is frowned upon for any reason, I'll just abstain from taking liberties.

Wiegraf/Wiglaf, on the other hand, I really struggle with.  The name is derived from the Beowulf myth, naturally, and he happens to be the guy's right-hand and successor.  Incidentally, Beoulve is a French variation of the name Beowulf.  If you believe that Wiegraf sounds stronger, I'll respect the notion.  It might have to come to some votes, however; at least fifteen cast before I finalize anything.  I always have the option of calling him Folles, his last name, and it would make sense since he and Ramza become adversarial to begin with.  He could also have the honorific of Master Folles, since he is a White Knight.

I'm surprised there is a point of contention about the assassin ladies but little else.  I'm never quite sure unless I get a thumbs-up or thumbs-down.  I got nothing about the script excerpt I had produced, and nobody confirmed anything about the {0xf4} thing, either.  Still, I got thumbs-down for the reasoning behind changing the girls' names.  I could leave them nameless and have onlookers identify them by their outfits instead.  What do you think they'll call them then?

Seriously, look them up:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Celia (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Celia)
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lettie (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lettie)

I stood there with my mouth gaping open at the sheer simplicity, the obviousness of it all.  Looking at the basic descriptions and the resulting romanji, I was pretty much sold by the idea.  Then again, Raven probably studies Japanese in his spare time and that he's far more learned in the field than either me or everyone who edits the site in question.  If there are a few dozen people who are somehow wrong in calling their outfits by specific colors, and then me looking at the romanji and suddenly thinking there is a connection, who are somehow utterly wrong in jumping to conclusions, then by all means....

It just caught me as a non-coincidence, that's all.  I don't believe in coincidences.  I might not stand by my position forever, but I do think that the names Lede and Lettie suck bad enough to change to Liedel, or something appropriately exotic.  Seria, on the other hand, is almost phonetically similar to the word cerulean, a shade of indigo, or blue (you know, sapphire), and isn't supposed to remind people of Syria the country.  To even invoke such an association is to invite controversy, though I don't really care if that happens to begin with.  Remember: Seria happens to be the romanji.  Why would invoking Syria be such a bad thing, Stretch?  Syria has had its dark moments of late, but you can't group all of them together beneath those moments' shadows, can you?

As for the names, I'm now betting on Sapphira and either Rouge or Liedel; the prior two happen to be actual words, they roll off the tongue, and they could pass as names while reflecting their outfits.  Again, in the same vein as Wiegraf's plight, we can settle with a vote.  Please note that sugnuf (who authored the translation of which I'm taking cues from) also called him Wiglaf.  It might not be the harshest-sounding name, but if we are taking names from mythology and famous authors, epics, and works of military ethics as the original authors had, then it is the more appropriate term in that context at least.

While we're trying to figure out if we like the changes proposed thus far, are there preferences for names or names we wish to change?  Let me hear them before I delve too far into this, okay?  It pays to plan.  Also, I'd like feedback about that excerpt, around the lines of if you think they're feasible.

Post-Script: Thanks FDC; didn't know apostrophes made for bugged spoilers....
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on August 06, 2012, 12:35:46 am
I don't study Japanese, but I speak in Engrish with quite a few people who are Japanese-primary speakers, so I know a lot of how their sound nuances are because it often comes out in how they type as well, including them often using r's instead of l's when they type, etc.  I could always find someone who does study some shit who could give better insight, but... effort. 

Another thing to remember is that when the Japanese make puns, they're usually fairly forward about them.  If "Redi" were meant to relate directly to the color red, Celia's name would directly reflect the color blue instead of an obscure offshoot like Cerulean, especially considering this was made with Japanese-primary speakers in mind who may not even know the word Cerulean. Unless Seria/Celia has some translation I'm missing that's more directly related to the color blue, I'd not buy it though.  I did just brute-force the name through Google Translate though to check, and it only comes up with Seria, Ceria, and Celia as options.  It's not that the Red/Blue dynamic doesn't make sense or wouldn't be reasonable, this one just isn't set up in the way most Japanese puns are.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on August 06, 2012, 01:57:54 am
I like the Wiegraf into Folles idea.

Puns are a bad idea for the assassins, it trivializes their encounters by making them seem less serious. Celia and Lede are fine names, they sound like Ivalice hooker names, which makes sense since they're hanging around Elmdor all the time. He has to have a political excuse for them while still playing the part of a politician.

How about naming Izlude, Wilhelm? In honor of this: http://youtu.be/cdbYsoEasio :)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on August 06, 2012, 03:49:45 am
(I'm not sure how much help I'll be here when it comes to names considering I haven't decided on them myself yet for the most part. This is partly because of stuff like this and partly because of the constant awareness that people, myself included, are never 100% content with anything and also other things. However....)

If I may say so, in the case of the minor characters, I'm not sure this needs that much thinking about. Unless you're going to try to flesh out Celia, Lede and/or Izlude like I am (going to try to), then what they're named isn't overly important as long it's not terrible, silly or terribly silly. Hell, presumably in Plus Izlude still only appears in one battle before he gets killed by Vormav/Hashmal. So writing essays about this doesn't seem all that productive. [/hypocrisy]

That said, this still does merit thinking about, so I applaud you for not being lazy about this and doing research as well.

Having studied Japanese a bit myself a while ago, Raven's right in that it's quite unlikely to have been an intentional pun on the part of the Japanese. "Reddy" doesn't seem like something they'd do (here), especially when they (read: Squaresoft) know Rouge exists and they already showed their willness to do color puns in Saga Frontier with it between Rouge & Blue being "brothers". I especially think it's not a pun just because I always saw Lede's dress as more brown than red really.

You (and Dome) can totally do a color theme/"pun" if you want, though. Personally don't believe that a "punny name" will make the Assassins less threatening as long as it's not something completely off the wall.

Admittedly, I've always been kinda partial to gemstone names for women, so Sapphira is a name I would welcome even though it's very little like Celia. Additionally, if you want to still do a color theme, then Ruby is a gem that exists and still gets the color point across; it also works because due to the whole "birthstone" thing being some of parallel to Zodiac stuff. (it also works because seemingly everyone on this forum likes Pokemon.) Ruby being rather different from "Redei/Redi" wouldn't matter for the same Sapphira/Celia reason. I mean, both Assassins are rather flat characters and it's not like people wouldn't know who they are if you changed their names to that degree as long as you kept their sprites exactly the same.

Shrug. It's ultimately up to you.

I'm rather ambivalent to most other changes thus far and can respect the other ones you made given the reasons you gave (that I haven't had time to look into). Izlude and Wiegraf are definitely two of the bigger pains in the ass, though I'd argue that only Wiegraf is actually important.

Quote from: Stretch on August 06, 2012, 01:57:54 amHow about naming Izlude, Wilhelm? In honor of this: http://youtu.be/cdbYsoEasio :)


...I don't even have to click on this to know it's the Wilhelm Scream.

Ugh. Can we let that stupid meme die already? Hollywood already abuses it way too much; we don't need it popping up anywhere else. (I do not mean to take this out on you, Stretch, since you're obviously not Hollywood.)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: LastingDawn on August 06, 2012, 11:55:23 am
I'm confused? Why is there any discussion on Celia's name? Celia is a Real name that's fallen out of favor in recent years but it has its roots in the real world. Meaning "Heaven", "Musical" or "Blind".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celia_(given_name)

Lede is a Lot more complicated with nearly every European language using it in some fashion or another and never as a name. The only one that possibly fits is another name for Satan, (in the same vein as the meaning of Lucavi (Rukavi) being Deceiver in Russian) which kind of makes sense as they are Ultima Demons.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lede

"den lede c
the evil one, the loathsome or disgusting one; the devil, Satan"

I never liked the name Lettie, it just did not sound right to me.


The problem with the Isolde/Izlude relation is that Isolde is a woman. Isolde and Tristam. In reality it's a name that would have better fit Meliadoul. Since it's a very famous story I would almost be certain that Isolde has her own method of pronunciation in Japanese that differs from Izlude or else such a cultured translator like Joseph Reeder would have picked up on it.

However there was one place where he Really screwed up. The name Golagros relates back to Arthurian legend and had no business being changed to Gragoroth, who bears no relation to his FFT Counterpart, but the fact remains that Golagros was not an incorrect name.

Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 07, 2012, 04:23:42 pm
Neophyte Ronin, I forgot to mention it last time:
After the battle where you have to save Mustadio, he says something about Magic guns
Since magic guns are no more, please remove that line. Thanks :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on August 07, 2012, 04:31:47 pm
You don't really need to remove that.  Guns are lost technology and that line helps bridge the magic/technology issue in FFT.

...In FFT+, you just happen not to find this specific bit of lost technology is all.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 07, 2012, 04:33:38 pm
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on August 07, 2012, 04:31:47 pm
You don't really need to remove that.  Guns are lost technology and that line helps bridge the magic/technology issue in FFT.

...In FFT+, you just happen not to find this specific bit of lost technology is all.

...makes sense
Neophyte Ronin, nevermind what I said. That line stays
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on August 09, 2012, 04:00:10 am
The line stays because you can acquire magi-guns and magic machine guns after specific propositions.  They cannot be used in-game, but I allude to why that is in the description, from lacking appropriate ammunition or some other plot device that renders them useless.  Mustadio is referring to legends, whether they are true in the so-called modern age or not.

The correct spelling is Gologras, in the case of Golagros/Gorgoroth.  Now, when I was looking up lists of Great Old Ones and Elder Gods, I came up with Golgoroth, a blackened toad with a piercing stare.  In fact, I wrote the guy in for an encounter in a fan-fic of mine a few days ago, following that implication and giving him some mutagenic powers since becoming undead that befit his idiom and menace (he is pretty damn vicious and argumentative, you know).  Don't assume he turns into an amphibian--instead, I have his eyes bleeding acid from gouging them out and he smells constantly like cordite, a type of blasting powder.  Remember his cause of death and you'll get the correlation.  He does have the tongue, something he uses to molest cute little redhead girls who wear black suits.

Golgoroth, in the context of a miserable toad, fits well as a nice "nickname" considering he abducted Teta and made her a hostage; Sir Folles would undoubtedly confront him and offer up the nickname, even though his real name is Gologras or Sir Levigne.  There, done.  Gologras bears no similarity to his literary origins and is, instead, better off being referred to as Sir Levigne when in polite company.  Sir Folles will call him that while trying to convince him to follow a simple order.  There is a lot you can tell about someone from a few simple implications from what they say.  That's what they mean by snappy dialogue: you get what's happening in a few brushstrokes, which saves time and space.


Also, Blackram is a faint reference to one of the titles of Shub-Niggurrath, Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young.  You could say Black Ram of the Weald with a Thousand Ewes.  Unit Blackram is supposed to sound very menacing, no matter their actual fate in the story.  Again, Gorgoroth sounded similar to the Great Old Ones (the aforementioned Toad).

In fact, the whole background behind the seven Lucavi mirrored the seven bizarre Lovecraftian "Les Invisibles" from the semi-Album of the Blue Oyster Cult, "Imaginos", an out-of-sequence series of tracks that describe a human wanderer who becomes Desdenova, Eternal Light, who starts to bend history by invading the thoughts of key figures so as to perpetuate wars and destruction, much akin to the plot of Tactics (being the unschooled wretch I am, I first heard Astronomy through Metallica's Garage Inc. album).

The fact that the head-honcho behind Tactics did Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre and named those games after songs from Queen Albums (Curse of the Black Queen?  Dead-Ringer!) cannot be ignored.  The correlation should not come as a surprise; upon the mere encyclopaedic analysis, I concluded that the scope of Final Fantasy Tactics, with its leeriness in trusting religion or human potential, with cosmic usurpers operating behind the veil of perception, is indeed a Lovecraftian marvel without truly exposing itself as one.

Thus, if Alex Smith thought Gologras was Gorgoroth, as a reference to a Great Old One, it was an innocent gesture of complicity towards the imagined inspirations of the original authors, that they wanted as many references to said literature to shine through.  Besides, Gologras bears no similarity to the video game incarnation, as Dawn had mentioned.


I'm calling them Sapphira and Rouge.  Ruby doesn't sound threatening enough as a ho' assassin's name, and it's also been used rather frequently in games like this.  To add more humor, they are never referred to by name, even when Elmdor is addressing them.  Ramza's mind conjures up the names so as not to just call them blonde and brunette.  Seriously.


I am aware that Isolde is a lady's name.  When I mentioned the word hazing in the context of Isilud's character, I interpolated a history of abuse that led to receiving a female's name as a joke.  Or, the Japanese authors failed to establish whether or not the name is unisex like Leslie, Marion, or Ashley.  Then again, they're doing all the research; they should have known.  The idea that he was being hazed came to light as a way of working in what could be his actual name, which in this case might as well be Tristam. 

Proponents toward the original name include his blue attire, and his Stone, Pisces (that otherwise invokes Leviathan--no joke, look up the wheel in the FFWIKIA page), and that the names merge "Ice" and "Battle" into one word.  That would explain his cool head even during pressure, very focused on what must be done, even in the face of death.  Or rather, invoke that sentiment in his character.  The use of Pisces to evoke an aquatic sentiment also illustrated some level of kindness, for he did worry over Sir Folles and offer a flayed confessional before Alma.  This is not the behavior of an irresolute man.

I still thought it was some kind of inside joke to give him such a name, because while checking his name in the wiktionary (both of them), the search turned up negative--nothing there at all--but while browsing the interwebs, I discovered that Izlude was the Satellite City near Prontera, where King Tristan III reigns (i.e. in Ragnarok Online).  Izlude is still similar to Isolde, and it amazed me that there was another reference of uncanny proximity between those names.  It was then that I settled on using one or both names in some capacity.

The last bit against my theory is that Izlude, in my ear at least, sounds fairly Arabic.  Exotic to some degree.  However, after associating the Knights Templar with their real-world origins as former escorts to the medieval Holy Land, the name that sounded similar to a dervish that might be chopped down for crossing paths with a mounted knight sounded even more alien, given he stood in their ranks.  It was just another spot where both translations have messed with me.


Keep suggesting shit.  Don't forget that the translation to be used will also be available to others and, given appropriate notice, can be tailored if necessary.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: LastingDawn on August 09, 2012, 09:13:17 am
I for one never bought the "history of abuse" line that is often heralded in Izlude/Meliadoul's backstory postulated by fans for several good reasons. First is that through Meliadoul and Izlude we can see how Vormav once was. He was stern, but he instilled within his children the same goals that the Church gave to its higher members. He taught them that the world must burn for the world to be renewed and both sought towards this goal in their own manner. We see one thing that he does to "abuse" his children and that's slapping Izlude minutes before killing him as Hashmalum/Vormav.

I don't think that's fair to say that there's a history of abuse in the family. Both Izlude and Meliadoul look up to their father, they don't fear him in any way. What makes him act in that manner is clearly the stone's possession which is most likely a recent matter. The stones only seem to activate when a person goes through a heavy ordeal that they cry out for help, in which the stone responds.

I surmise that for Vormav it was the death of his unmentioned wife, just as it was for Cardinal Draclau, since it mentions in his Brave Story that after his wife was killed by a fanatic he became a changed man.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 12, 2012, 12:21:43 pm
Neophyte Ronin, I like how you are turning the deadly assassins' names into a joke for the player
I guess it will make the pwning they usually inflict a little less severe
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 14, 2012, 05:33:28 am
Any other update on the script, Ronin?
People won't be able to give you feedback if you don't give them some info about what are you doing :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Darkholme on August 16, 2012, 09:11:28 pm
I see big lists of changes you're doing to the vanilla game.

Are any of the things in the list on page 1 already in 1.01C? Like the various ASM hacks mentioned?

Maybe you guys won't like this suggestion, but perhaps a modular approach would be the best idea?

Starting with FFT Complete (for the extra features) and then adding your new translation; and then making the gameplay changes a separate patch?

I don't "Know" if it will happen, but someone else may want to use your translation with a different set of gameplay mods.

Starting with FFT: Complete seems like a given just for access to the cool shit they unlocked (even if they didn't unlock all of it).
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 17, 2012, 02:11:32 am
Quote from: Darkholme on August 16, 2012, 09:11:28 pm
Are any of the things in the list on page 1 already in 1.01C? Like the various ASM hacks mentioned?
Most of the stuff is already implemented in 1.01C Beta, you can freely play it (It's only missing some DD fight)

Quote from: Darkholme on August 16, 2012, 09:11:28 pm
Starting with FFT: Complete seems like a given just for access to the cool shit they unlocked (even if they didn't unlock all of it).
FFT: Plus is most probably going to use this (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7699.0) patch as a starting point (It's the same as Vanilla FFT, but with a better organized "inside")
Which features FFT: Complete has that plus doesnt?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Darkholme on August 17, 2012, 02:44:40 am
They did things that enabled some of the stuff that got taken out of the USA FFT.

- More books along the lines of the Germonik Scriptures
- Music Player.
- UI adjustments to fit bigger ability names.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 17, 2012, 07:32:07 am
Are the books in FFT: Complete fully working?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Darkholme on August 17, 2012, 11:03:12 am
I haven't tested, but from the descriptions I believe that to be the case.

They may not have typed in the translations, but if that's the case, I know the script for them has been translated to english elsewhere.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 17, 2012, 05:26:09 pm
I doubt I'll use "complete" as the base patch, so much stuff is still not finished/untested
If you want the music player, you can use this awesome ASM (By FFMaster) (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5658.0)

P.s: The music player might be added to the main release, but only if many ask for it and works bug-free
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Darkholme on August 18, 2012, 02:58:52 am
Well this is me asking for the music player.

The soundbooks as well. If possible.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 18, 2012, 03:03:44 am
Quote from: Darkholme on August 18, 2012, 02:58:52 am
Well this is me asking for the music player.

The soundbooks as well. If possible.

Guess I'll open a topic and see what people think about adding it to the main release
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 18, 2012, 03:07:26 am
ASM by FFMaster
SOUND TEST
OPEN.BIN
0x441c

00001724

OPEN.BIN
0x4434

94cb0108
00000000

OPEN.BIN
0x5C88

d4

OPEN.BIN
0x5CBC

02

OPEN.BIN
0xBE50

1000038e
03001714
05000234
0fad0108
00000000
10ad0108
00000000

OPEN.BIN
0xCFAC

19 32 2F 2E 24
19 32 2F 2E 24

OPEN.BIN
0x4580

7C F5 04 08

WORLD.BIN
0x5D5F0

00 00 05 36
00 00 A3 90
07 80 01 3C
AC 3F 21 34
21 08 24 00
00 00 22 90
00 00 00 00
06 00 62 14
0a 00 02 34
01 00 84 24
0a 00 82 28
F5 FF A0 14
01 00 A5 24
0a 00 02 34
09 00 82 14
05 00 02 34
10 00 02 AE
00 00 04 34
FA 0E 01 0C
60 00 05 34
A4 9F 01 0C
20 00 04 34
89 AD 01 08
01 00 17 24
BC 66 01 0C
00 00 04 34
62 AD 01 08
00 00 00 00

Change Ramza's name to PolkaPolka in the New Game screen to activate it.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on August 18, 2012, 08:25:31 am
Here's the question you need to ask yourself: Do you hurt yourself in any way by including it?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 18, 2012, 08:29:27 am
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on August 18, 2012, 08:25:31 am
Here's the question you need to ask yourself: Do you hurt yourself in any way by including it?

I don't know (And I have no simple way to know) if the ASM is 100% bug-free, if it will make the patch unplayable on PSX and if it conflicts with other ASM
That's my main concern
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on August 18, 2012, 08:50:48 am
It edits OPEN and WORLD, so it has a nearly 0 chance of conflicting with anything.

Pretty sure people have burned and played FFT:Complete on a physical PS1 as well.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 18, 2012, 09:03:54 am
Thanks for the info, Raven: you are helpful as always

Then, it's just a matter of preference now.
Let's see what others think about it
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on August 18, 2012, 12:17:22 pm
I've been listening to these songs for years, I don't really care about having ready access to any of them through the disc. But do what you want to.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 20, 2012, 08:58:13 am
Only 4 votes so far? Come on guys, you can do better than this!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on August 20, 2012, 07:48:14 pm
No one's voting because it doesn't really matter Dome.

It's a cool feature, it doesn't conflict with anything, it doesn't get in the way of people who don't want it because you have to actively seek it out to use it.  There's literally nothing to vote on. :/
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Timbo on August 20, 2012, 08:40:02 pm
I voted yes. You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see a music test option added to the main menu.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on August 20, 2012, 11:51:39 pm
Yes, please. Will the soundtracks being tested have their track names?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on August 21, 2012, 02:49:57 am
Wow, thanks for all the votes guys!
I'll leave the poll open for one more day ;-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on September 27, 2012, 10:21:43 am
I see that some patches use an ASM to make the maximum level 50, instead of 99
Those are the reasons Rfh used in his topic (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8990.0) to explain his decision:
Quote from: Rhf- Speed grow with Status CT and ability CT gain completaly descontrol is las 50 levels.
- Gear, and levels magics are completaly unbalanced with the formulas based (PA+Y)*PA in last 50 levels
- Some growts like mosters HP overflow in last 50 levels.

Think it's an interesting idea...but I'd like to hear your opinions on the matter
All of FFT: Plus data can be found in the master guide (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7519.0#msg153486) topic, if you need a reference
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on September 27, 2012, 01:03:05 pm
I always loose focus and move on to other things trying to get a party up to 99 for the Deep Dungeon, so anything that removes some grind tedium is a good thing to me! This game has always been about thinking your way through, not just making your numbers go up.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on September 27, 2012, 08:15:10 pm
Quote from: Stretch on September 27, 2012, 01:03:05 pm
I always loose focus and move on to other things trying to get a party up to 99 for the Deep Dungeon, so anything that removes some grind tedium is a good thing to me! This game has always been about thinking your way through, not just making your numbers go up.

Avoid excessive grinding to reach maximum level is, in fact, one of the reason I think setting the level cap at 50 is a good idea
But I need more than only 1 feedback ;P
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: theultrawolf on September 28, 2012, 05:21:16 am
This idea seems extremely fruitful and would add a whole new aspect to gameplay, regarding increased difficulty. I always hated the fact that if you grinded just enough, you could blow through the entire storyline and even the side missions extremely easily. It would be awesome if it was a one sided thing though, so your units could only reach level 50, but the enemy AI could still reach 99. The disparity would be interesting as far as developing new strategies. :o
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on September 28, 2012, 07:49:23 am
Quote from: theultrawolf on September 28, 2012, 05:21:16 am
It would be awesome if it was a one sided thing though, so your units could only reach level 50, but the enemy AI could still reach 99. The disparity would be interesting as far as developing new strategies. :o

That's unfair difficult!
And may work well in the Deep Dungeon xD
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: theultrawolf on September 28, 2012, 09:39:12 am
That's what I was thinking >:D and, if you feel extremely evil, work it out so that the Deep Dungeon enemies are level 255 (I think that's the highest possible level) :p
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on September 28, 2012, 11:32:48 am
Double your level is already enough xD
But still, I need more feedbacks on this proposal!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 28, 2012, 04:26:02 pm
You can't have levels higher than 99 without a Gameshark because the rest of the Level byte is used for other things in the ENTD.

If you lower the level cap though, forced-level enemies can still be set up to 99 without errors.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on September 29, 2012, 08:17:14 pm
I've considered designing my own hack where everyone's at 99 and the gear is compensated for.  If we capped it at 50 and prevent further leveling beyond that, it means we can create villains who surpass the standard level (like how the Deep Dungeon is designed ordinarily).  There would also be a question of how fair this would look to players.

A better question to ask--provided a level cap should be possible--is to ask if gradient-based weapons that employ Character Levels (or hell, Job Levels, to be precise) in their power output calculations are possible to design.

Example: Broadswords increase in power relative to Knight Class levels and a few others (to varying degrees; Squire and Geomancer increase it by 1/2 or 1/4 the rate of Knight, etc.)  This means that, Unarmed and Weapon arts improve based on their wielder, while equipment such as Robes, etc., improve certain stats as well, usually special effects as MP gains.

Now, if that were possible, we'd be in business.  Trouble arises when we consider fairness toward the AI.  Usually, they get so much and don't bother to branch out to other Classes, thus they have far less striking potential.  Other characters such as maybe Zalbag would have their JP amounts tailored in proportion to their theoretical technical skill, and in fixed fights, that's easy to pour through.  In all, this concept would benefit players more, especially the grinding types.  It does, on the other hand, provide an alternative level-up system.

If we really wanted to be evil about things, have the capability to reduce Total JP by taking in JP from rival Classes.  Now, this won't prevent you from un-learning abilities--that's just asking for a beating by players--but if you decide to take up another Class, your memory of other Classes starts to wane, to a certain degree at least.  We should cap this, prevent it from getting underneath Level 5 or somewhere, or make certain Classes immune to this degradation.  What this does is reduce your Job Level by reducing your Total; your total has to be above a certain....

You know what?  Forget it.  Too difficult and far too reminiscent of FFII.  Some people don't want to remember that game.

Level 50 stats with Dome's current Master Guide would make sense.  However, we run into a simple problem: a Level 99 Monk is far more dangerous than any character in the game.  After a certain threshold, weapons are there just for stat boosts, may the best one win.  Level 99 Monks are murderous savages, and it's part of the reason you can grind to 99 in Vanilla during Chapter 1 and not worry about repercussions, even though the gear is bad.  Even if enemies leveled with you, the gear remains static (the point of the above debacle).  If you cap it at 50, the enemies should follow suit and never go beyond except in cases where you want to brawl hard.

Tailoring weapons to 99 standards--and I mean all weapons, from Broadswords to Chaos Blades--and putting everyone at 99 means that only abilities and tactics are the greatest deciders of a battle's outcome, which is the point of the game.  I'm all for 50 if it means that certain encounters break that mark, but what happened to the boss-stat enemy encounters?  They get harsh after a level threshold past 50, you know.  Level 99 bosses against 50 player units is a harrowing confrontation, nigh impossible without foreknowledge of what to expect.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on September 30, 2012, 03:51:20 am
Do not worry, if we implement the level 50 cap, no one except DD enemies will break the cap
I don't like unfair difficult...the main quest is supposed to be completed by everyone, after all
The Deep Dungeon, on the other hand...
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on October 09, 2012, 07:04:53 am
Bump
What do you guys think about the idea of setting the level cap at 50 instead of 99?
Please vote :-)

P.s: Posts above contain some preliminary discussion on the matter
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on October 09, 2012, 07:20:59 am
Level 50 as a max level seems easier to balance around than 99, as it lets you minimize min/maxing a bit. Most people reach around level 40 endgame anyways (a lot lower if you're better at nuking enemies quickly), so 50 works nicely as a cap since people won't have to grind as much.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on October 10, 2012, 02:55:24 am
Well, reducing the amount of grinding necessary is one of the reason why I'd like to implement the level cap :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on October 11, 2012, 04:04:32 am
Only 6 votes so far? :-(
I'm sure you can do better than this :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on October 14, 2012, 04:49:13 am
One day left to vote guys!
And please post your toughts/opinion on the matter after voting ;-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Script] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on October 15, 2012, 04:08:02 am
Poll closed, ASM section updated :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Script] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Devreckas on October 31, 2012, 03:09:25 pm
As far as name changes go, I kinda oppose having Izlude changed to Tristan just because its so close to Isolde... because its also close to a lot of male names.  For instance, it could be changed to Isidor.  That's a definite male name and still retain the 'Izzy' root.

Wiegraf should stay. Or Master Folles.  No Wiglaf!

Didn't really Kletian was a problem. (I pronounced it "Cle-shan" though, so I could be off)

And while on the subject of names, was Cuchulainn the author's intention for naming Queklain?  It just seems bizarre how almost all the rest of the Lucavi seemed fairly consistent in naming (most are refs to angels and demons) and design (most look like the animal of their zodiac) but Cuchulainn is a hero of Irish folklore (nicknamed the Hound of Culainn) and Scorpio either represents an eagle or a scorpion, yet he's just looks like some sorta Oogie Boogie knockoff.  Just wondering... 
Title: Re: [Discussing: Script] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on November 21, 2012, 08:50:11 pm
(Sorry for being late. I wasn't even on FFH at all yesterday and I slept away most of today after falling sleep sometime around 8:00~ A.M.)

All I wanted to lazily comment is that I'm theoretically "fine" with the level cap of 50, especially since I'm still considering myself, when it comes to the Patch. However, I can't agree that Deep Dungeon should be Level 99 or, at least, ALL of it should be. END encounters being at Level 99 I could understand, but the others seem...unnecessary.

I don't know. In the story battles, you could have Ultima maybe be a bit above 50 since she's the last boss. Otherwise, it seems like you should have the Levels in Deep Dungeon gradually increase after 50 since you could get away with increments of +5 over 10 levels. That seems a lot more "fair" than Level 99 right out of the gate, even if Deep Dungeon as a whole is completely optional.

Shrug. It's up to you.

Quote from: Deverca on October 31, 2012, 03:09:25 pm
And while on the subject of names, was Cuchulainn the author's intention for naming Queklain?  It just seems bizarre how almost all the rest of the Lucavi seemed fairly consistent in naming (most are refs to angels and demons) and design (most look like the animal of their zodiac) but Cuchulainn is a hero of Irish folklore (nicknamed the Hound of Culainn) and Scorpio either represents an eagle or a scorpion, yet he's just looks like some sorta Oogie Boogie knockoff.  Just wondering....


I also meant to answer this as a soon as I saw it.

Yeah, as can be told, Queklain is supposed to be named after that Cuchuulain, which is odd for both the reasons you mention and the fact that their personalities are not even remotely alike since Irish Cuchuulain was boisterous while Ivalician Cuchuulain just seems sadistic (in FFT at least). Shrug.
[/quote]
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 02, 2012, 12:03:14 pm
Hello guys! I've been thinking a lot about knights lately:
I don't like their skillset very much, because I'd rather steal the stuff they break!
So, I was thinking; What about giving them a better skillset? What do you think?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on December 02, 2012, 12:14:29 pm
How about replacing the Equipment Breaking stuff with things that will help them tank?

For example, in PW, my tank class can use a skill that inflicts Berserk and Don't Move on surrounding enemies, so that way the tank class will be the one being hit by melee attackers.

LFT also did some interesting things with Knights, like making Breaks far more accurate and giving them Innate: Defense Up/Magic Defense Up.

Weapon Break -> Enmity (Add: Berserk and Don't Move on surrounding enemies)
Shield Break -> Guard (Add: Defending, Protect, and Shell on self)
Head Break -> Transfusion (Gives some of one's own HP to a ranged ally, think Vanilla Wish but with range)
Armor Break -> Concussion (Add: Blind or Silence in weapon range, can be used to defend oneself and allies from physical attacks or mages.)

Better names pending.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 03, 2012, 02:47:39 pm
Just 2 votes? Come on guys!
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: HebrewToYou on December 04, 2012, 01:46:16 pm
Sorry for the delay, Dome.  Haven't seen a ton of action in this thread lately so I don't check as often.

I DEFINITELY support a new skillset for knights.  I never use them for anything other than learning Equip Armor/Shield/Sword.  I think they really need to be reworked into a more appropriate job.  Knights aren't necessarily known for breaking things; they're know for gallantry.

So perhaps a skillset based around superior strength in attacking and teammate buffing?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 04, 2012, 02:04:33 pm
Quote from: HebrewToYou on December 04, 2012, 01:46:16 pm
Sorry for the delay, Dome.  Haven't seen a ton of action in this thread lately so I don't check as often.

I DEFINITELY support a new skillset for knights.  I never use them for anything other than learning Equip Armor/Shield/Sword.  I think they really need to be reworked into a more appropriate job.  Knights aren't necessarily known for breaking things; they're know for gallantry.

So perhaps a skillset based around superior strength in attacking and teammate buffing?

Yep, that was my idea as well :-)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on December 05, 2012, 08:28:48 pm
Breaking equipment is one of my favorite tactics. It doesn't take long to get enough money or equipment that you need to steal tons of stuff. Breaking equipment is a fast, potentially ranged, permanent debuff. But giving the knight tankier skills instead would make more sense for them. Maybe move the breaks to the archer or lancer?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on December 05, 2012, 09:26:11 pm
(Oh, right. I knew I was forgetting something again.)

I was going to vote "no", but first I "need" to know a few things:


1. If you're planning on killing Breaks for Knights (and, by the sound of it, all generic classes), then what are you planning to do with Divine Knight, if anything?

2. Given Eternal's suggestion, what are you planning to do or change about Berserk status, if anything?

3. Does this break removal apply to the two Ruins that Knight already seems to have?

Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 06, 2012, 03:44:07 am
My concern is that Stealing stuff > Breaking stuff (And, battle wise, the effect is the same: Removing an item from an enemy unit)
I want each job to be unique, or at least useful.

Quote from: The Damned on December 05, 2012, 09:26:11 pm
(Oh, right. I knew I was forgetting something again.)

I was going to vote "no", but first I "need" to know a few things:


1. If you're planning on killing Breaks for Knights (and, by the sound of it, all generic classes), then what are you planning to do with Divine Knight, if anything?

Divine Knight stays the same
Quote from: The Damned on December 05, 2012, 09:26:11 pm
2. Given Eternal's suggestion, what are you planning to do or change about Berserk status, if anything?

I have no plans on changing the Berserk status, atm
Quote from: The Damned on December 05, 2012, 09:26:11 pm
3. Does this break removal apply to the two Ruins that Knight already seems to have?

Of course not
My idea was giving them 4 skills + the 2 ruins
But I need some skill that doesn't make them look like a minor version of another class (Maybe some skill that gives defend to themselves or allies?)
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: NightwolfXVI on December 06, 2012, 07:59:34 am
I personally think the knights should have damage skills, kinda like Steiner and that other woman from Final Fantasy 9. Something that makes them shine on their own without out shining other damage classes. Either that or you could make them a better squire, like take the base squire abilities and give them to the knight except make the knight version stronger in some sense. Just an idea anyways.
Also I have a question, is it worth going ahead and playing the current version of FFT+ or waiting for 1.02?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 06, 2012, 08:29:58 am
Well, 1.02 will be a lot better than the current version, but it won't come out anytime soon...it's up to you, in the end
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on December 06, 2012, 10:10:38 am
(I see.)

So you "only" want four skills then?

Very well, I shall try to think of some things that haven't been suggested.

For the record, though, if you're keeping Berserk as it is, then Eternal's version of Enmity would be busted if multi-target. That should be single-target at most really.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on December 06, 2012, 10:14:13 am
Well, Enmity would only be one square around oneself and it's not like it'd be 100% hit.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on December 06, 2012, 11:34:47 am
(Yes, I had gathered that much.)

Still, I suppose it would have been better of me to use "overpowered" rather than "busted" since "busted" sounds more like "broken".

Regardless of it's chance to hit, if Berserk is staying as is, then I'd be wary of any multi-target Berserk move, especially one that's on what's meant to be a tanky-unit, meaning said unit can easily get it off even if they're "at risk" because of it. The only exception to this at present is the redone Sandstorm in ARENA, but that's because a) the terrain for that is scare, b) it's only 20% and c) the AI is in control of it; it also helps that no one's really fought on the desert maps in at least months and that Geomancy use is in decline.

As single-target, I think it would be fine really, but even if it's "only" Self-AoE 1, it still seems potentially abusive by the player. That might just be me though.

For the record, what was average or at least starting percentage of Enmity hitting in Parted Ways?
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on December 06, 2012, 11:56:21 am
Current PW's Enmity works vastly differently. It heals MA*1 HP constantly 2 AoE around self and hits enemies only, so that the AI will be lured into range by the healing. As far as accuracy goes, it's 100%.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Timbo on December 06, 2012, 12:07:47 pm
I split the stat breaks and the equipment breaks. I gave the squire the stat breaks, throw stone, heal, accumulate, and first aid to make them more like the Soldier from the Advance games. I gave the Knight the equipment breaks, tackle, beat down, wild blow (now a two panel attack), and delay attack to make them more like the Fighter from the Advance games.

All in all it makes the squire more useful and the knight more interesting.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Eternal on December 06, 2012, 12:08:46 pm
I really like Jack's suggestion about Squires, but I'd replace Tackle/Beatdown/Wild Blow with more defensive stuff, personally.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 06, 2012, 12:37:32 pm
Yeah, I'd like to give Knights defensive skills, but I don't want them to be a poor-man Priest...They could be the only job able to use (And "inflict") the defend status...but I need more ideas
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 06, 2012, 01:12:07 pm
Steal isn't better than Break though, Dome.  In terms of your ability to debuff the enemy, Break is almost always better because it can be performed at range, fired multiple times per casting, etc.  Steal is simply more rewarding than Break, which is entirely different and how things work in Vanilla, 1.3, etc.  If you want a consistent, safe, and reliable means of removing the opponent's gear, you use Break.  If you want that gear for yourself, you use Steal.  The main advantage of Steal is that the other abilities that come in the skillset (namely Steal Heart) are better than the non-Break skills in the Break skillset.  (Which amount to... none, actually, since Power Ruin and Mind Ruin are basically Break skills that look pretty.)


The best way to do this is to treat Steal Weapon/Shield/Helmet/Armor/Accessory as all being one skill, and Break Weapon/Shield/Helmet/Armor as all being a second skill, then give both classes a few more skills to work with.  You could also give Knights Spears as a 2-range option to equip that slightly accentuates Break's advantage over Steal without the need for a Support Ability on the primary class.  The point is, one is Risk/Reward (Steal) while the other is Range/Reliability (Break), and both are useful based on the kind of player you are, what equipment the opponent has, and what other abilities come in the skillset.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 06, 2012, 01:57:03 pm
Actually...yeah, you are right
But Knights & Thieves look too similar IMHO, and I want to give Knights more flavour

Ideas so far (Knight skillset):

- Defensive stance (Defend on self & nearby allies)
- Disrupting swing (Little damage & Cancel: Charge/Perform/Sing)
- Aimed strike (Low 100% damage Weapon range)
- Something that gives Reflect?

I'm tempted by Jack's idea of giving Squires the stat breaks...but I'm not sure
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on December 06, 2012, 02:43:34 pm
(I'm currently ambivalent about Squire getting the two Ruins for various reasons that I'm not going to go into right now, having just gotten back.)

Reflect might be a bit much considering that, as in vanilla, very little magic can get around it and Knight already being the most tanky unit.  Of course, considering that you don't seem to have a Reflect-adding ability on any other class, even your Arcanist, I suppose it's "needed". Additionally, given that you seem to be using vanilla values, that means it will wear off still eventually and only White Magic gets really screwed over, assuming that Black Magic's Flare is actually immune to Reflect. Also, it seems more magickal than Knights "should" be capable of, but at this point that's of very little importance.

Ergo, I suppose you could call it "Polish" or something like that. Not exactly a stellar name suggestion, but almost anything is better than "Lick". As such, I'd recommend it affecting only the self or else the player heavily benefits over the AI. (Actually, you could may be get away with calling it "Astra" even though the actual Astra is notably different than mere Reflect in quite a few instances.)

That said, I can't say that I get behind the other suggestions. Aimed Strike seems far more like an Archer or other ranged-class ability, Cancel: Charge & Performing abilities bug me for the most part and the AI's going to whore Defending status every chance it gets, even if it's to little avail.

I'll try to think of something now that my morning errands are out of the way earlier than I'd figured.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Stretch on December 06, 2012, 08:45:15 pm
Just posting to reiterate that I love breaking equipment and leaving units naked. Please don't take my break skills away. :(
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: The Damned on December 07, 2012, 01:19:27 am
(No, I didn't forget about this. I was finally able to think of some decent abilities a couple of hours ago and then I got distracted by some other things.)

For the record, I'm still ambivalent to Knights losing the Breaks since I can understand both Raven's and Dome's positions. At present, the suggestions here assume that Knight is losing either one or both of the Ruins:


Proposal for Dome's possible new Knights

Chivalry (renamed Battle Skill skill-set)

1. Astra: Add All or Nothing Regen & Reflect to self only. Costs a decent amount of MP.

2. Nurse: Add All or Nothing Regen & Defense + HP heal to single-ally in close-range. Cannot target self. Costs no MP?

3. Enmity: Add All or Nothing Silence & Don't Move either in Self-AoE 1 that doesn't target self but uses MA+X% or Self-AoE Linear 1 that does target self but uses PA+X%. May or may not use MP.

4. Dispatch: Range 1, PA*WP, 100% Cancel Protect, Shell, Reflect & Innocent. Costs a bit of MP.

5. Shining Force: Weapon Range, (Always) Holy element, PA*WP, perhaps +1 in power compared to normal attack, Add Separate Blind. Costs 5 or 6 MP.


In addition to those, Knight can either keep both Breaks, split one with Squire or give up both. I somewhat lean towards splitting one with Squire since then AI will "intelligently" use which everyone igets without oscillating back and forth between Power Ruin & Mind Ruin in most cases. Of course, that arguably could get obnoxious, especially since I don't think you're using Xifanie's limitation hack.

Regardless, if Knight loses those, then they could perhaps get minor status relief such as Vox (cure Silence + minor HP healing on one unit) and/or Blindna (cure Blind + minor HP healing on one unit) so as to "protect" their allies' skill-sets. In my mind those abilities would use Faith & MP however, so that may not be something you want for Knight even if Ruins move to Squire.
Title: Re: [Discussing: Knights] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on December 07, 2012, 04:10:12 pm
Thanks for the suggestions/feedbacks given so far guys
7 yes & 1 no...
Looks like the Knight job is going to get a brand new skillset :-)
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on December 27, 2012, 06:50:17 pm
The Knight's Code of Final Fantasy, since V, centers on handling and deflecting damage away from an ally.  The problem with Defend is that, if there is another character who can be attacked at far lesser risk of wasting the attempt (i.e. easier to hit), then they get attacked, provided they are also within range.  In other words, given a choice....

Knights would probably benefit from Innate Defend.  Instead of being the only guy on the field with Defend (unlike the last Plus incarnation which, for its circumstances, worked very well), the Knight gets it as an Innate Status--the Class itself.  He need not select Defend and he need not use it or Caution during a fight.  A character with that kind of defense can be quite hard to break, but Thieves with their Innate Concentrate can give them a run for their money.  That would be pretty extreme, but again, there are workarounds.

As for Thieves being a little bit better than Knights, I am forced to agree.  Thieves have both Concentrate and greater agility.  They might not have lasting power, but they can get a much better defense with Equip Shield, while Knights could use Concentrate from the Archer to ensure they are just as effective.  The difference would then stem between the higher health rating of the Knight against the agility rating of the Thief.  In practice, Thieves fare better because it is easier to reposition them after an attack.  Knights are pretty much stuck there to get the **** kicked out of them.  This new push to reform their skill line-ups will have little consequence over their overall public image.

Knights and Thieves should have condensed their primary feature to one ability long ago.  An ability that casts a Break on one of four (or five, given that we're condensing them) is a crapshoot and Stealing a random article is also a crapshoot.  It dismisses the surgical precision and thus makes the moves far less effective at disabling an enemy in specific ways.  Now we can give these classes far more lasting capabilities as Classes.  So, if Knights get the condensed-to-one-and-then-add-new-ones upgrade, the same must be done of the Thief.

The Knight should follow the disruptive element to the letter; cancel prep status with a swift blow, for instance.  Knights should also follow chivalry, as stated.  Here's an example:

Sentinel - A situation where the Knight is given priority by the AI, even if someone is more vulnerable to attack.  Something behind the scenes, like a Status Ailment only Circumstantial, like Berserk.  The Knight becomes a frequent Target; if he does not Defend often or have access to healing, he is often the first to fall.  This could extend into PvP PSP games and is not meant to utterly exploit the AI like Transparent does.

Vigilance - The Character's Evasion stats for all sides are treated as Character (Frontal) Evasion.  This means, if you are 50% Evasion from the front, then you are 50% Evasion THROUGHOUT.  Either the Knight or Thief could have this; it could be an alternative to what the current "Caution" ability does as a Reaction and move it right onto the Support Ability list.

Raging Ache - A move that deals impressive power, but you forfeit your Health--usually 10%.  At what price glory?  This is a Knight Ability I would use in a pinch if it meant it got an enemy where I wanted it to go.  There are abilities in the Worker 8 category that correspond to this concept.  This would be a Knight-exclusive.

Joker Hand - This always crits, but you only get PA 1 * WP otherwise.  This means your damage is low but variable.  It always hits, and since it always crits there is also the chance of knock-back.  This might be a Thief exclusive.

Cleave - If your hit kills the enemy, your Knight can take a free turn, presumably to nail another.  Please note the attack must deal a killing blow for this to work; else, you just forfeit your MP.  Knights could use this to mow down some lesser mooks on their way through an area.

Minuslay - Deal Wound-Based damage.  While many Classes have this (Cloud and Beowulf), this one demands melee range and is thus harder to attempt.  It also requires a direct blow, so it is Evasion-sensitive.  But still, it's got Steiner written all over it.



There are plenty of ideas, but I'll figure them out.

I'm almost finished with my uh... "translation".  I've poured through the TactText and the EasyVent materials, and all I have to do is pour them into an IPS and see if it all works once I'm done.  When I know it can work, I'll send them to you for approval.  (Post-Script: the translations are meant to be for anybody and to be a departure from either of the official/current translations, but I can tailor item and equipment descriptions as long as your current Master Guide is up-to-date.  We'll discuss the particulars once I send them over).
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Shao on January 22, 2013, 12:52:15 pm
Hello i'm a big fan of final fantasy tactics and i am really grateful for the hardwork you put in into this great game.
i'm pretty shocked at the number of patches available and i started out(without any clue how to even patch) with FFT 1.3 version downloaded from insanelyderpy.
The mod is really I.N.S.A.N.E(for one reason the enemy has got chapter 4 equips while im in chapter 2  :cry:) and i thought i should look for new patches and there i discover this site.
Your mod appeal to me more and im very looking forward for the new revamps that you wanted to put in the 1.02 version.
XD cheers! and thanks for making fft as fun as ever! playing the beta since im free at the moment=D
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on January 22, 2013, 01:50:56 pm
Quote from: Shao on January 22, 2013, 12:52:15 pm
Hello i'm a big fan of final fantasy tactics and i am really grateful for the hardwork you put in into this great game.
i'm pretty shocked at the number of patches available and i started out(without any clue how to even patch) with FFT 1.3 version downloaded from insanelyderpy.
The mod is really I.N.S.A.N.E(for one reason the enemy has got chapter 4 equips while im in chapter 2  :cry:) and i thought i should look for new patches and there i discover this site.
Your mod appeal to me more and im very looking forward for the new revamps that you wanted to put in the 1.02 version.
XD cheers! and thanks for making fft as fun as ever! playing the beta since im free at the moment=D

Glad you decided to try my patch, considering there are quite a few here at FFH :-)
I think you will like it, because the main focus of the patch is to balance everything while keeping a "fair" difficult
Feel free to give us feedbacks about your experience with 1.01c, or give suggestions for 1.02 (It's still in development, and extra ideas are always welcome)

P.s: WELCOME TO FFH, WHERE ALL YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE!
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Shao on January 22, 2013, 10:35:26 pm
Hi Dome=P
Just wanna tell ya that my thoughts for FFT is just simply to amazed the fft community with new and cool things as many would have played tons of the original version or even the other patches.
Honestly speaking im really happy to see skills like HOLD THE LINE! it made me laugh! i didnt really care about the skill but the name of it just make me feel so refreashed. So after reading the skill i laughed the 2nd time...that moment make me feel like i'm off for a FFT with new experience.
the part for fair difficulty will be a challenge for you>.< and im just gonna enjoy the patch which im already doing so.
New,out-of-the-box ideas will make FFT plus unique(and the opening scene is really awesomeXD)
i dont really think i can help with the development but i may have some ideas along the way...oh..do you have Gain-JP-UP in the game? or just walking around for extra JP? haha^^ :o
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on January 23, 2013, 12:48:01 am
It gets spammed by grinders.  Superior abilities means easier time.  You'll have to get creative with what you got.  Fortunately, whatever the AI tries on you, you can (eventually) try on them.  Try an Archer and get Train, then have a Squire accompany the Monster into battle.
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on January 24, 2013, 06:26:02 am
Guys, WizDaddy suggested this in one of his videos:
Do you think Reaction % of activation should be changed to (Br+Fa)/2 % ?
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 24, 2013, 11:18:08 am
Seems like a decent change.
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: TrueLight on January 24, 2013, 06:33:23 pm
Sounds good. Now you actually have to worry about faith if you want a higher reaction %.
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on January 27, 2013, 10:20:57 am
Given that Brave and Faith do not carry over, you'd need some altered Br/Fa-adjusting Abilities that will make characters very likely to react.  Brave and Faith, if set to random, fluctuate between 45-74 for in-battle and 40-70 for out-battle (eggs and soldier office).  Given that, the mean Reaction rate becomes somewhere around 55-59.5%.  This is a feature used in the Arena Combat battles that the Pimp holds on the same YouTube page.  In Arena Combat, it's meant to prevent characters from being high-octane Br against low-grade Fa for defensive purposes, in addition to accompanying rules such as minimums and maximums for Br and Fa across each of the four characters.

It's a shot towards ameliorating some of the depravity of the RNG when handling various amounts of Br and Fa.  At first glance, it sounds okay.  You could even bring back Shirahadori/Blade Grasp because Br and Fa are not transferable after battle and thus you have to pump up Br and Fa to promote frequent Reaction usage.  The decreased reliability of that translates to greater use of Parry and Abandon/Reflexes, since they don't give a damn about the amount--they're just filling the slot.  But what else could you apply such a concept?  I mean, you got rid of one of the unique processes for Brave and altered weapons that once favored the courageous (Knight Swords and Unarmed).  Why not extend this kind of thinking to Magic as well?  Perhaps we could have a formula like this:

Mg = [(A+35)+(X+35)+(B+35)+(Y+35)/1000000]

Where A & X = Caster Br and Fa and B & Y = Target Br and Fa.

This means that Morale is pretty much homogenized to an extent that it doesn't really matter which one you got.  It's just two separate numbers that do the exact same thing.  Any situation that calls either for a Br-based check or an Fa-based check then becomes a Morale-Based check.

There are some radical issues with this.  The first is that characters with high brave can become good mages.  However, characters with low faith can still be mages.  Magic, however, has even less power than previously because you need both to generate top-form results.  Also, the status effects Faith and Innocent/Atheist (I prefer Heathen for the latter) suddenly have diminished effects.  Of course, they also prevent them from being totally overwhelming.  Character concepts such as Worker8 suddenly don't work.  The thing can get nailed by Magic!  Also, what the hell do we do with Malak's Un-Truth/Nerakayana technique?

Frankly, I am of the camp that says, if you want something better, then keep what works.  Don't mix Brave and Faith into an end-all about one's Reaction Ability.  Instead, consider another possibility, based on the Critical Hit/Knockback formula.  The Knockback is one's Brave turned against another; if one is superior, the other has a lesser shot at suffering a normal hit.  That is [CBr(100-TBr)] so, if applied to Reaction Abilities....

Suppose Ramza nails one of those goddamned Blackthorn goblins (the black ones) and risks setting off its repulsive Strength Save ability.  That will just raise its ire.  However, if the Blackthorn is 70 and Ramza is 70.  The Blackthorn has an equal 70% shot at getting his proc.  What if Ramza was temporarily Doomguy Berserker-Packed with 100 Brave?  Well, then the Blackthorn will have a reduced chance at getting his Reaction Ability done.  If it was lower, then the Blackthorn gets a slightly improved chance at it landing.

Here's what the breakdown would be:

70*70=4900, 100*70=7000; 4900/7000=70% (obviously)

80*80=6400, 100*70=7000; 6400/7000=91% (holy shit!)

40*40=1600, 100*60=6000; 1600/6000=27% (God damn...)

60*60=3600, 40*40=1600; 3600/1600=+100% (Oh, dear)

Oh wait, wait... let me try that again:

60*60=3600, 100*40=4000; 90% (did that one in my head).

Even if the Caster had superior Brave, the odds of provoking a Reaction Ability is still below 100% certainty.  Hey wait a minute!  That solves all kinds of problems with game-breaker Reactions, even if you redid their variables in orgasm.  (Oh, man, I should just hit Post on this thing already).

Well... that didn't go quite where I expected.  Even if you make a rival formula, the outcome would not be so different.  This could be a horrifying experience if your Brave was lower than your enemies.  You'd freeze in the wake of their positive attitude.  This would make Morale-altering stats a nightmare to behold.

[CB*TB/10000]

Okay, lets try the obvious avenue and see if we get somewhere else.

70*70=4900/10000 = 49%

Wait, what?  You have a decreased overall likelihood?

90*90=8100/10000 = 81%

Well, that's not too bad.

30*30=900/10000 = 9%

Okay, that one's just fucked up.  Ignore the alternative.  It's also ridiculous since that 100- with the Target Brave should have been the grand balancing act.  100*100 is just plain wrong and goes against every iota of common sense in my psyche.

Yeah, well I'd love to share more insights but my idea is: don't go forward by mixing Brave and Faith together with Reactions.  You can mix Caster Brave and Target Brave with a hundred thrown on the Target's side and divide by ten thousand, resulting in near-perfect but never absolute numbers, paired with a change where Blade Grasp doesn't cover all weapon types, if you're really ambitious (one exists), but other than that, don't get cocky changing up Reaction Ability procs with Faith.

Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Luc on February 04, 2013, 02:24:50 pm
A few questions about 1.02 patch;
This thread was created over a year ago... any ETA (sorry I know thats a jerk question that probably gets asked a lot)?

When you say that we'll have to steal "Rare items" during ch. 4 fights-- are you referring to story fights (meaning there will be only one of said items) or random fights (meaning you could farm as many of them as you want)? If it applies to randoms then thats awesome, I've always hated the idea that there are items that can be missed or only obtained one of, although chantages need to be changed to 'on start' instead of 'permanent' for sure lol, those are too overpowered.

Level cap 50; why? does this include monsters being capped at 50, and again why?

no more move +3? i don't get this at all, if anything shouldn't move +3 be added (for females), I mean its not overpowered since height and terrain restrictions still apply.

All the other stuff sounds great, but the above I find to be kind of odd changes...
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on February 04, 2013, 03:45:32 pm
Quote from: Luc on February 04, 2013, 02:24:50 pm
A few questions about 1.02 patch;
This thread was created over a year ago... any ETA (sorry I know thats a jerk question that probably gets asked a lot)?

Can't give you an ETA, sadly, because I cannot start working on 1.02 until "Vanilla plus" is out (And vanilla plus won't be out until Jot5 ch1 is released)

Quote from: Luc on February 04, 2013, 02:24:50 pm
When you say that we'll have to steal "Rare items" during ch. 4 fights-- are you referring to story fights (meaning there will be only one of said items) or random fights (meaning you could farm as many of them as you want)? If it applies to randoms then thats awesome, I've always hated the idea that there are items that can be missed or only obtained one of, although chantages need to be changed to 'on start' instead of 'permanent' for sure lol, those are too overpowered.

Yep, you have to steal them during story fights

Quote from: Luc on February 04, 2013, 02:24:50 pm
Level cap 50; why? does this include monsters being capped at 50, and again why?

Actually, I think that idea might be scrapped: Setting the level cap to 50 might alter the stat balance

Quote from: Luc on February 04, 2013, 02:24:50 pm
no more move +3? i don't get this at all, if anything shouldn't move +3 be added (for females), I mean its not overpowered since height and terrain restrictions still apply.

A unit moving 7 panels trivializes the concept of strategy

Quote from: Luc on February 04, 2013, 02:24:50 pm
All the other stuff sounds great, but the above I find to be kind of odd changes..

Thanks :-)
If you have any other question/feedback, feel free to post :-)
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Luc on February 05, 2013, 08:58:58 am
what is vanilla +? Didn't see any page for it anywhere.
I'm assuming Jot5 is the "Journey of the 5" Mod? You're working on that too?

In any event I'm really looking forward to FFT+ v1.02 -- I've already been thinking about starting to make a psp document.dat manual like I did for 1.3 but with more info in it, but not sure exactly which bits I can get from your master guide (still missing poach list) that would apply to 1.02 vs 1.01c Beta
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on February 05, 2013, 05:46:53 pm
This is vanilla Plus (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7699.0)

- No, I'm not working on Jot5; But Elric will start working on Vanilla plus after Ch1 of Jot5 is out :-)
- 1.02 is a PSX only patch at the moment, unless I decide to work on a PSP version (Unlikely, since I hate the PSP, but not impossible)
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Luc on February 05, 2013, 06:32:42 pm
I realize its psx only, but you can play psx games on the psp (if you have CFW, which I do), the document.dat would be for that!
I actually have 1.3 psx version loaded onto my psp atm, but FFT+ sounds better so I can't wait!
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Shao on February 07, 2013, 01:43:06 pm
sorry for the delay i'm busy with other stuffs lately
so...i try to contribute to the FFT community by being a frequent FFT player..but im a newbie to all these FFT hacking and changing pls bear with me.
I saw the wizard job and it is something very striking to me.
Other than the naming of spells which is fine, the creator gave 'character' to each type of spells..thunder being faster etc. which is cool!...but the problem comes when i saw my dmg could go as low as 7 for a charged skill like thunder(being fast but low dmg)
i'm one that loves fresh things, and if possible some graphic changes to those few USEFUL skills used by many people who love fft> one eg could be the knightsword skills.
That being said, it does make one feel annoyed if new 'character' given to for eg. thunder, can result in 7 dmg(when you hope the reduced charged time could still do some decent dmg). Should there be some changes to the dmg equation for wizards?
The way i play FFT will normally question the 'fun-ness' in the game...perhaps im not the hardcore tactic guy....i couldnt stand the whole game based on tactic. i daresay most who 1st played fft love knightsword skills because it does heavy dmg and cool animation. And more love the idea of i-can-own-the-battle-with-my-ultimate-party(after hours of grinding)
Grinding should, in my view, reward players, like having access to better jobs(nowadays jobs are all well balanced and there's not a single OUTSTANDING job, after hours of grinding) because it makes players happpyyyyy
I would have to also say that it is important to balance both approaches be it to make the game more tactically-inclined or fun at the same time.
thanks for reading! :o
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on February 07, 2013, 01:46:20 pm
About the damage, the formula considers various things: Faith of both characters, MA, weather, abilities, equipment, compatibility...you should give us more info

About the end-game stuff...there still is powerful stuff: Most of the special characters, end-game equipment...and a special surprise
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Luc on February 14, 2013, 01:02:45 pm
Will being able to steal from randoms be back in 1.02 because not being able kind of makes thieves steal ability not nearly as useful.
If you made it so black mages could only use black magic spells during story fights they'd be pretty useless too, see what I mean?
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on February 14, 2013, 01:26:48 pm
Yep, in 1.02 enemies in randoms will bring the same equipment you can buy in stores, and you will be able to steal it

Enemies will only be able to use skills from their class skillset and the 2nd skillset equipped...like every unit in the game xD
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Luc on February 14, 2013, 08:48:46 pm
awesome!
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: axfelix on April 28, 2013, 08:18:05 pm
Speaking as someone who hates the WOTL script and really likes 1.3, this is the most promising Hacktics project for me right now. Can't wait to see it come to fruition -- hope you toughen up Chapter 4 despite wanting to keep the game "fair"!
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on April 29, 2013, 03:43:20 am
Quote from: axfelix on April 28, 2013, 08:18:05 pm
Speaking as someone who hates the WOTL script and really likes 1.3, this is the most promising Hacktics project for me right now. Can't wait to see it come to fruition -- hope you toughen up Chapter 4 despite wanting to keep the game "fair"!

Of course it does, don't worry ;-)
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: dices543 on May 01, 2013, 09:01:35 am
Hey Dome,

Just registered to make this post. I usually just lurk and read the forums but i'm an avid fan of FFT and the remakes. After many years after playing the original on PSX i heard about 1.3 and played it and loved it.

I recently started playing your game, about 6 hours in and i must say i'm impressed. Keep up the good work and im looking forward to 1.02.

How is Monk fist damage calculated?

Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on May 01, 2013, 01:27:03 pm
Quote from: dices543 on May 01, 2013, 09:01:35 am
Hey Dome,

Just registered to make this post. I usually just lurk and read the forums but i'm an avid fan of FFT and the remakes. After many years after playing the original on PSX i heard about 1.3 and played it and loved it.

I recently started playing your game, about 6 hours in and i must say i'm impressed. Keep up the good work and im looking forward to 1.02.

How is Monk fist damage calculated?



Thanks for the kind words! You made me blush :-)

Fist' formula is
(PA/2)*PA
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: dices543 on May 01, 2013, 06:49:23 pm
Hey Dome,

I was hoping i could clarify something up since i'm confused with Geomancers. I have Ramza as a Geo right now (no attack up or MagicAtk up). The guide says the damage is clarified as (PA+1/2)*MA. My Ramza has 8PA and 7MA and if my math is correct then the damage should be (8+1/2)*7 = 59.5 yet my damage on my team mates are 48 for best compability and 42 for normal. Then on this enemy goblin (doesn't have shield up) is only 24 damage.

What reduces Elemental damage?
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Dome on May 01, 2013, 07:08:06 pm
Goblins have innate Magic Defense Up, as you can check in the master guide (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7519.0#msg153527) :-)
Title: Re: FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
Post by: Sir.Tuckre on May 06, 2013, 08:40:37 pm
I would just like to say I love your mod and I love your planned changes. Keep up the good work.