• Welcome to Final Fantasy Hacktics. Please login or sign up.
 

Arena battle videos and discussion

Started by PX_Timefordeath, August 04, 2010, 06:49:51 pm

Malroth


Shintroy

January 14, 2015, 09:01:43 am #3801 Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 09:14:30 am by Shintroy
Defense vs Chip Damage
TrueLight has some sick units on his team and I haven't seen a chivalry archer in a while. Has a slight advantage over Reinoe with base stats and can increase his damage with warpath and ma save so I'm betting on TrueLight taking this.

Round 1 - Looks like for Reinoe to win it comes down to his monks getting of death sentence and getting rid of that holy paladin. For TrueLight he has to kill either the mime or chemist first. Looks tough for TrueLight since this is a small map.  Even after the samurai crystallizes it still looks like an even match since the archer is st full power by then. With that he manages to take out Reinoe's chemist, then eventually the entire team.

Did not know you could run out of potions wow. Auto Hi-Potion? Wow.

Round 2 - Death sentence ended this quickly. With the mime mimicking it onto the samurai the paladin just had too much to deal with even though it was a 3v4 due to sleep.

Round 3 - 300+ Murasame. Finally got to see the samurai put in work. She was probably in 999 crit range towards the end of this round.

GG. Definitely want to see more of TrueLight's team. Maybe against.a team with more burst or AoE damage. Definitely one of the best healers built in 139. Didn't get to shine as bright due to not getting targeted by Masamune.


Great match up Malroth.
Some day my people will be free.

reinoe

Thanks for the match malroth!!  That must have taken forever to record and upload.

Not sure what to do with the Mime.  Team can't function without that unit.  And my luck with talk skill has been worse than awful.  I need to do something about auto-potion but I'm reluctant to try Talk Skill again.

I switched from dancers to monks specifically protect against status.  But status hurt me anyway.  Witch hunt+mime is usually enough to overcome Robe of lords+move mp-up.  Unfortunately the knight is tankier than most spellcasters.  Usually spellcasters get downed by the dancing and witch hunt prevents raise 2.  There's one setup with mime I'd like to try.

GG Truelight.
My dreams can come true!

Malroth

Some suggestions for replacement mime all male for the extra PA

Basic skill  with Tackle, Thow stone, Accumulate, Heal, Yell, and Wish.  Handles a variety of problems and can be mostly self sufficient with Move HP up.  Equip Heavy blade is used for Lionheart.

Item + Equip ranged.   Romada gun is a gauranteed 100 damage with no stats needed  and the mime is healing as needed.

Chivalry with Move MP up. Equip Heavy blade for Coral sword or Phoenix blade grand cross self healing or optimise evasion and just nurse yourself every round.

Ninjutsu for Un-faith based elemental healing and shiruken.

Draw out with Asura, Murasame, Masamune, Bizenbolt, and Kiyomori.  Still optimize for PA but use Power Wrist for that very nice 65% evasion against blinded targets.

Cursed ring + Necronomicon + Item + Move HP up.  Wear Gold Armor and Twist headband,   you'll eventually negate autopotion entirely since so few teams carry undead protection.



Shintroy

Geomancy mime prevents the mime from attacked unarmed. Probably one of the best options since it prevents the mime from attacking with melee and being in harm's way. Probably one of the best options since that'll make the monks more likely to use death sentence.

Reinoe's team didn't really use melee attacks though, so that Necronomicon set up might work without the risk of mime losing the weapon. Any weapon could work with that said. Equip atheist bow and ninjitsu? Might want to make sure the mime can't be charmed so he or she can't lose the weapon. Elemental Gun mime does a lot of damage even without pilgrimage.  Might want snipe with an elemental gun for oil.
Some day my people will be free.

TrueLight

Thanks for the video, Malroth.

Auto Potion saves the day. Nice seeing my two attackers doing good damage through Defense UP/Protect while Paladin does her thing. I thought my Samurai was gone once the Chemist started being derp with the angles, but she made it just in time. GG Reinoe.
  • Modding version: PSX


Otabo

January 15, 2015, 09:08:09 pm #3807 Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 09:15:08 pm by Otabo


In a nutshell...
R1: "I know I can go up and kill them at any point, but I don't feel like it. I'll build up even more speed instead..."
R2: "You ain't laying down on the job as long as I'm around. They can't kill me and they know it. Ok, everyone's getting bored now. Time to finish this..."

Holy damn...33 speed thief at that point, yet he was so passive for like, 90% of the match. Damn Maiden's Kiss for costing 150 JP; I knew I needed it but didn't have enough for it, so I didn't give it to him. Though I doubt that it would have mattered much as the mediators were mostly ineffective due to Damned's team being mostly immune to berserk. Now if Damned's units could have gotten to the thief, it would have been a different story as then it would have been only the monk left for revival, and we saw what happened to him. GG.


Whoever runs a match with one of my teams next, can it be my summoner team please? Thanks.

Malroth

Note this would have been impossible with a 8CT quickening

Shintroy

January 16, 2015, 09:48:45 am #3809 Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 07:44:51 pm by Shintroy
Unorthodoxed Team vs Fast Team
Looks like another loss for The Damned. Otabo just has too much speed going on to make this a good matchs.

Round 1 - That Thief. Easily made this a 4v6 with all the double and triple turning. lmao checking his speed midmatch. 33 speed and rising.. If you die with that speed you'll probably instantly crystallize.

Round 2 -  Crazy round. I like the sleep friendly status effects The Damned has going on. Evenly matched until Otabo manages to get hasted.

GG. The Damned didn't have any damage potential. If the thief was ever downed he could've taken a round. Quickening isn't OP.


Anti Undead vs Sleep Damage.
Really even match on paper. Requested the match since both teams operate similarly.

Round 1 - Oracle goes for ivory whack. Team gets rek't.

Round 2 - Team gets a lead, but Barren recovers quickly and turns it around.

GG. Wrecked. My team only shines if it can manage to get a unit advantage. Did not, and could not happen though. Finally see the flaws in my team at least. Will definitely get rematch after update like Barrows vs 8 Steps. Two bites was all it took.


I'll start commenting again after Monday. Busy week.
Some day my people will be free.

The Damned

(Thanks for the heads up about Baden Baden Loli--again--via PM, Barren.)

Also, thanks for the videos like always. You too, TrueLight and Malroth.


...Despite his loss, I want to say that this should count as a win silentkaster just for the pun of the team name alone and it being nice to see someone use Staves; this even if Wizard Staff is still "meh" to me and no one has tried to use White Staff. As it was, this was a good match that silentkaster lost mostly just because it was a bad match-up in Barren's advantage given how the Samurai, with her horrific damage, kept getting picked off so easily from the start. That's not even the fault of Berserk for once given it was due to Jump and Comet, which are unavoidable anyway and also can't really have their damage reduced.

Other than that, silentkaster got screwed over by Stop the over-buffed spell. My, how surprising given that fate has been happening to more and more people.

Outside of silentkaster's Scholar not strengthening Wind (which is fine given his team) and neither of his mages being Immune: Silence, both which are fine given the theme and countermeasures respectively, the only thing I'd suggest is to maybe make the Samurai into a less suicidal unit. Given she already has Focus, it might be better to give her Gold Staff and Cherche over  Rainbow Staff and Salty Rage since despite the significant drop in power, she gets evasion back, benefits more from hitting Counter (in theory) outside of "just" damage and would still be quite powerful.

Shrug.


For the most part, Reks just got kind of unlucky in this fight. It's the first fight where he's missed Death--though twice this team has fought me, so.... The unnoticed-by-me change of making Juliet into a Samurai from a Wizard probably contributed to that somewhat, though the cruelly hilarious Counter Magic Death hitting in the first round didn't help either.

There's really nothing else to say about this outside of the fact that it's nice to see someone use Houkouton. Well, that and that it's also a bit amusing that the Reraise from Phoenix Blade actually came into play given the Thief got his Cursed Ring stolen immediately in the second round.


Hunh. I too wasn't aware that you could actually run out of Potions for Auto-Potion. Then again, given both teams are "players" despite being automated by the A.I., I suppose it makes sense in a way even though the regular A.I. won't run out of items (I think). But, yeah, that screwed over reinoe even more in the first round and was easily the highlight of it. The second round's highlight was that reinoe won it and won it so quickly due to Mimic'd Secret Fist.

Meanwhile, the highlight of the third round was how disgustingly powerful the Samurai got even though she almost Crystallized due to one of the many things the A.I. is unfortunately dumb about: trying to through target through bridges if there's a target-valid panel below them despite it clearly having 00% chance of working. Sigh. The A.I. is so dumb....

Still, getting to at least 34 MA mostly from MA Save? Agni Christ.

For all that it had to go against, reinoe's team actually did decently well and was held back by the Mime's poor offense and lack of revival. 108 Gems isn't really going to cut it with Elemental, especially given the horrible, unnecessary nerf that 108 Gems took coming into 1.39. I'll suggest a different unit below though.


That's the power of Pinesol Sleep status, baby. I'd figured that Barren would win from the start just because Sleep status is kind of dumb, but geez.

As demoralizing a curb-stomp this most likely was, at least it was quick. Given how dumb the A.I. can be about things, it was mercifully over rather soon instead of the A.I. meandering around like aimless asses even though the battle's already effectively won just because the enemy is Sleeping. Then again, given how much damage the Monk was doing even before Sleep's damage bonus, I suppose that's the chief reason why that didn't happen.

Even before the whole "it's never been Direct issue", Wave Fist being Wind element now is still, uh, up in the air for me. On the one hand, it's even stronger now despite still having Punch Art's inevitably problematic quadratic formulas and now can heal on top of its power, as my match against Otabo right after this show. On the other hand, now it's affected by Flash Hat, anything that absorbs Wind and anything that nullifies Wind unless Oil is applied. Hmmmm....


And thus the foddering begins.  I mean, me, get unlucky in a battle that's already an uphill battle where I start a disadvantage? No way, that never happens, especially in the face of Quickening, the ability that is the very epitome of balance, on maps that both larger ones that give Quickening time to (instantly) go off.

Sarcasm aside, I figured I would lose this from the start just due to the speed advantage and the team not being changed much from the form it had in the tournament with no JP cap. This despite the already figuring the Samurai would remain lackluster, which remained true--male Samurai...I swear; I'm just going to give him Talk Skill instead I guess and probably get rid of Projectile Guard.

That said, I'm surprised I actually (painfully) hung in there as long as I did, though it's mostly because Sleep status is almost as overpowered as Quickening. I also a bit surprised I even might have managed to win if my luck was not predictably horrible when it actually mattered. I would most likely won the first round if that single Secret Fist at 70% towards the Thief had landed given how stupidly fast he already was by that point and given how neither of the Mediators has revival or were an actual threat to most of this team while the Monk was already dying. Similarly, I might have even won the second round had that Blackmail hit the Thief given how often all Otabo's other units kept getting put to Sleep.

Oh well. If nothing else, then this match serves as fine example of how stupid both Quickening and the current Sleep status are.



Good game, Otabo.

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing how in addition to likely needing its CT outright halved to be fair, Sleep status probably needs its damage buff either reduced or even outright negated.


Quote from: reinoe on January 14, 2015, 11:41:07 am
Thanks for the match malroth!!  That must have taken forever to record and upload.

Not sure what to do with the Mime.  Team can't function without that unit.  And my luck with talk skill has been worse than awful.  I need to do something about auto-potion but I'm reluctant to try Talk Skill again.

I switched from dancers to monks specifically protect against status.  But status hurt me anyway.  Witch hunt+mime is usually enough to overcome Robe of lords+move mp-up.  Unfortunately the knight is tankier than most spellcasters.  Usually spellcasters get downed by the dancing and witch hunt prevents raise 2.  There's one setup with mime I'd like to try.

GG Truelight.



I know you already said have an idea in mind, reinoe, but if that idea doesn't pan out, then I'll suggest one you could possibly use instead despite my forsaking Mimes again already.


Flamenco
Male
Serpentarius
40
40
Mime
Basic Skill
Counter Flood
Overwhelm
Move-HP Up


Diamond Helmet
Light Robe
Power Wrist


Accumulate, Bullrush, Throw Stone, Heal, Wish

Total JP: 500 + 450 + 650 + 500 + 0 + 650 = 2750

Stats: 303 HP | 103 MP | 8 Sp | 10 PA | 7 MA | 4 Move | 4 Jump | 51% front P-EV and 30% side & back P-EV | 0% M-EV | Always: Regen; Initial: Float & Reraise.


Even with the shift over to the male gender, the jump in PA isn't all that significant for Wiznaibus damage, but every point counts. This unit doesn't actively use Elemental anymore, so the drop in MA and lack of Strengthening is relatively neglible since you were mostly just using Elemental to fish for status clearly. Besides, Accumulate and Overwhelm will bring up Elemental's damage as well and eventually surpass the damage the female Mime was doing if enough Accumulate goes off.

As it is, Accumulate is thusly the only thing this Mime uses MP for. I wouldn't bother with Yell on him despite Haste obviously being really good (read: borderline necessary unfortunately) still since a) he would be the only unit on the team capable of Hasting, meaning he would spend (read: waste) all his time and MP on it instead of using Accumulate, and b) this team doesn't really benefit from Haste anyway really.

I was originally going to give him Move-MP Up so he would theoretically "infinitely" Accumulate, but then I remembered both of your Dancers are currently using that, so he gets (read: has) to keep Move-HP Up. I also originally gave him Attack UP, but I can't remember if that actually affects Dance--I think it does, weirdly enough, despite not affecting Jump. There's also the fact that I'm relatively sure that Overwhelm boosts Elemental's damage more than Attack UP does, though I think Attack UP does actually work on Elemental--not sure about that though.

Beyond that, using an alternate piece of headgear like Platina Helmet, Crystal Helmet, Grand Helmet, Choice Band or even Focus Band is rather valid. The same goes for choosing Unyielding, Magic Defense UP, Two Swords or even Half of MP instead.

Regardless, good luck with getting a Mime to work for you as it is.


P.S. The name change is just because I thought it would it fit better with your team's named theme of being named after dances that were presumably solitary. I was unimpression that waltzing is a strictly couples-based dance, but I admittedly know of dance since I don't like dancing. Still, what little I've seen of professional flamenco dancers has tended to be quite good and it tends to get ignored in the U.S. outside of some stereotypical instances, so....



This reminds me I still have no idea what to say in the "Mime Guide" about the whole "let's share Necromonicon" that happened in one of the videos CT5Holy just posted.


Quote from: Malroth on January 16, 2015, 01:49:53 am
Note this would have been impossible with a 8CT quickening


I still say that Quickening giving a CT wouldn't actually work and it's better just dying in a fire, but I'll at least explain why...in spoilers.


Yes, with 8 CT, that wouldn't happened with Quickening, at least if we assume that like with Cheer Song, the A.I. would most often be stupid enough to cancel Quickening past 13 Speed instead of letting it continue. Similarly, yes, that would be far more effective change than just increasing the JP of it by 50% and calling it a day, though as much as Quickening is the only thing I'd really call FFMaster "out" for, I can even understand that to a (very) slight degree as an attempt to perhaps see if just nerfing Cursed Ring would make Quickening balanced. Newflash: it didn't. especially on larger maps where a unit is basically guaranteed to be able to get at least two instances of it off.

"Too bad", though, that even with 8 CT, it would still be hideously overpowered for what it actually does, especially if there's no way to prevent Short Charge from affecting it. While 4 CT isn't instant or even fast, that would still let units with Steal like the one Otabo's using and the others before him have used before him get to 25 Speed. As much as I want to avoid going on (another) rant about Quickening, how can anyone think it's possibly fair to even be able to get to that much speed? Especially when the ability comes innate to what is now hands down the fastest class in the game given the nerf to Mime's stat and when more than half of said skill set is basically unusable in most instances, one of them (Speed Ruin) particularly because of Quickening?

No, Quickening isn't an auto-win move--I've never said it was, to my recollection, and if I have then that was my mistake and I issue a retraction. It's just hideously, blatantly overpowered, which has been from the beginning which is why it's the only thing I've flat out told FFMaster to his I find to be a stupid decision on his part despite all his efforts. I'm not going to blame anyone for using it despite it being annoying to see, basically hijacking both Steal and all of the meta-game of at least 1.38, since it's there to use and thus "valid". I just don't see why anyone would  still want it around given there's no real way to balance. As much of a severe pain in the ass as Phoenix Blade was, that was at least novel and interesting up to a certain point; Quickening is neither and never has been.

It's not like we'd lose anything by getting rid of Quickening either. Even without it, a unit can still get up to an effective 20 Speed, which already makes about thrice as fast as 8 Speed units and literally twice as fast as 10 Speed units. That at least takes investment though and is vulnerable to breaks and theft. There's really no counter to Quickening given Slow Dance's abysmal hit rate, though I'm an increasingly of the mind that Slow Dance and Cheer Song should likely die and be changed anyway given Dance and Song clearly need to be overhauled to some degree.

And before you say that no one will use a Thief with Short Charge just for Quickening, keep in mind that if Bad Luck becomes an actually usable skill, then that's affected by Short Charge too, so....
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"


The Damned

(Thanks for the videos, TrueLight.)

Gee, watching the first video made me realize how long it's been since I listened to anything from FFX's OST that wasn't "Path of Repentance". I should probably amend that soon.


Even at a glance I expected Otabo to win this just because of all the AoE he has and given that only two of the units on Shintroy's team had any AoE at all or could really attack from a distance. So what was surprising to me was that for being the class with literally the worst HP in the game, all of Otabo's Summoners have more than decent health. That certainly helped in the few instances where Shintroy's team was able to actually mount damaging offense rather than being overwhelmed by the literal flood of magic damage despite their sandbagging.

That's even more understandable given that no one on team FFX has any significant M-EV aside from Rikku, who was basically useless in this fight given she was obsessed with Stealing. I kind of face-palmed at that and at Tidus's surprisingly poor attempts at Slow 2.

Speaking of slow speed, Otabo's team being slower was actually a significant advantage here too. Just like how Tidus having Zephyr Shield kind of backfires given his lack of Short Charge. It was also nice to see that Otabo's team focused only on competently used Haste 2s despite also having Slow 2 on that unit.


And the losing streak continues, to the surprise of no one given it seemed rather obvious I was going to lose even before the telling music in the final round before that (obvious) Mimic Daravon hit. The team still has no Sleep protection after all and basically all of my reactions were useless going into this except for Auto-Potion on the most defenseless unit on the team.

Round One: Only reason I managed to win this one is because my team got lucky for once where it actually counted and basically dodged every Mimic Daravon that came their way except for the final one on Xigbar. Sniper also dodged two of those 81% would-be-fatal Harp shots, which would have otherwise slowed down things even more given that reactions kept going off CT5Holy, as witnessed by those back to back HP Restores. I'm surprised it didn't go off more than twice given it never works for me, but meh.

Round Two: I expected to handily lose this one just because it's the longest map in the game versus a team that wants set-up while Dusk and Sniper will just fly ahead to their deaths. Only thing was surprising was that I held out for long. I might have even won if I was smart enough to have given Sniper Mk. 2 Attack UP over Overwhelm now since then he would have 2HKO'd the Mediator and CT5Holy's team does kind of lose if she goes down too early. Also could have won if Tornado wasn't so fast since that basically fully healed the Chemist, but that and Quake being too fast for their power is exactly why Dusk and Sniper Mk. 2 have Flash Hats anyway. This even though Xigbar got "killed" by Sleep again--"killed" given it's fate literally worse than Death in ARENA. Finally, that 648 Harp shot was rather disgusting--I approve.

Round Three: Not much say about this bit of idiocy except that I have no idea why the hell Xigbar didn't use Maiden's Kiss and I thusly find it ironic that this is the only round he didn't get put to Sleep in. I'll also say that stuff like that with Mimic Daravon is a prime example of why I think it needs to no longer be AoE, especially since Mediators aren't as toothless without AoE Mimic Daravon as people seem to think. I'll readily admit that I'm also tired--haha--of  getting instantly murdered by Mimic Daravon off that bat such a fashion, but that should be rather obvious.



Regardless of my usual kvetching, good game, CT5Holy.

I should probably give Dusk back Weapon Break and get rid of Meiton now that he no longer needs to heal himself; I should maybe even give him a different weapon than Repel Knife since he has Arm Aim--if I had Spell Edge, then I probably would have won. I should also just ditch Kagesougi and Overwhelm for Attack UP now that Salty Rage is mercifully infinite too.

Anyway, as far as match-ups go, I think my Pilgrimage of Repentance fighting both Otabo's Total Summoning and  Shintroy's FFX teams would be fun even if I'll probably lose. At the very least, they'll be matches where I don't get murdered because of Sleep or Death Sentence (or Stop), which will be a nice reprieve. Of course, this will only work provided both are okay with it and I'm not sure if either wants to make adjustments to their teams before fighting again. Up to them, really.


P.S. Shintroy, your FFII/American name for FFIV team is currently stuck in the spoiler for your FFX team. I don't think this is intentional, so I'm just pointing it out. If it's intentional, then ignore this.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"


CT5Holy


Wow, the Comet to wake up the Scholar -> Scholar moves out of Tornado was awesome! wtf AI why are you so randomly clever

As for the actual fight, I was completely outmatched =P. Things might've been okish if Scholar had died in R2, but who knows.
Winner of the 1st FFT 1.3 AI Tourney

Otabo

January 18, 2015, 05:40:23 pm #3815 Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 05:49:05 pm by Otabo
I do somewhat remember saying in a post about 2 years ago that I was going to make an all summoner team. Despite winning, my mind still hasn't changed on how I feel about summoners as a whole. Though since the 1.39 patch, their HP can be tweaked to be a bit better this time, but I dunno - I still think they're just inferior to wizards/scholars. Then again, I don't like mages that much anyway, except in special cases like this one. Maybe after I see a few more matches with this team.


Very good match here. I believe if the squire didn't have that Reflect Ring equipped, she (eventually) would have gotten berserked which would have stopped both the Deaths and the Wishes, etc, which would have taken out quite a bit of silentkaster's offense. Some missed Fairies, too, which was disappointing. Hmm. Might need to trade off summon magic for white magic. GG.

silentkaster

Thanks Barren for the videos!!!! Had an extremely busy Sunday but will comment tomorrow.
You've stepped in puddles less shallow than me.


Anima Zero

Thanks for the videos TrueLight!  Gave me something to do while eating some lunch.


Well now, that was an exciting match.  Surprised I won that first one with how close I was to losing my entire team and the fact I was effectively down a unit because my Priest felt like going to flirt with someone and dying far away from my team because of it.

Second round was more what I was expecting my team to do.  Lock down the enemy team with status effect and let my Lancer & Ninja do work.

Not sure if I want to tweak my Ninja or not.  The Healing Staff whack heals didn't seem to be quite as useful on my Lancer as I was hoping.  Perhaps I'll make him into a bit more of an offensively skewed Ninja.  Will likely have to think on this over the next day or so.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..." Zero, Mega Man Zero 4