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Final Fantasy VII Project

Started by Cheetah, September 01, 2011, 05:06:58 pm

Cheetah

September 01, 2011, 05:06:58 pm Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 06:51:17 pm by Elric
THREADJACK by ELRIC

Jacking Cheetah's original post here.

We will not be using WotL names or anything derpy like that.

This will play out the same way as something like CoP, however will also include a NG+ and certain materials that can only be acquired randomly
after you've beaten it once or twice. It is not meant to be a very long mod and instead is supposed to be more focused on replayability, more is
avaliable the more you play it.
Current Projects:

RavenOfRazgriz

I can think of plenty of game mechanics for a game like this, if you wanted.  Stuff like making Materia-accessories that give the characters access to a new skillset when equipped, etc. if you want to have gameplay more akin to FFVII's Materia System over FFT's Class System.

Story-wise, the second is very close to how I'm handling Special Power Rangers Edition, so I could easily get behind that.  I also like the third one too, though.  Not feeling the first option all that much though.  It's be easy to do but it feels kind of cheap to do "lol FFT with FFVII cast."  The second option also works best with trying to emulate the FFVII system in FFT - the generic FFT classes, etc. can all remain, and customization can be from the FFVII-unique Items and Equipment. 

(For example, turn weak items like Linen Cuirass and Small Mantle into the Items our FFVII cast would access, keep things like Crystal Mail Vanilla or close to it, so you can have generic enemy FFT humans fight a properly equipped FFVII cast, and if they're allowed to shop, even allow for mixing and matching between FFT-verse and FFVII-verse items.)

The hard part is the sprites, and we have those already.  It's just figuring out when in the FFVII plot we're going to rip our party from (Mideel?), then giving them an equipment, Materia, etc. pool accurate to that, and going from there based on whatever mechanics we choose to use.  I'm just really liking the idea of using Materia to allow skillset customization, probably Item innate to all the FFVII units, maybe allowing FFVII-unique Clothes/etc allow for innate Supports or something that can be equated to things in FFVII but have lower HP than the FFT gear, etc?  Considering ALMA is mostly functional now, and the FFVII cast will all be player-only controlled (for the most part), we can have tons of fun with the actual mechanics.

Cheetah

Using ALMA to recreate the materia system is a pretty amazing idea Raven. Will it allow for the depth of customization found in FFVII and are there any other limitations you can think of.

You could even center a simple story around them needing to find materia that also got transported over with them in order to get back. Thus you would have a good reason to travel around the world map with little need of an in-depth story. You could even keep things pretty open ended with a variety of paths you could take.

I like the idea of leaving the majority of the FFT world alone and just introducing new mechanics for your FFVII only party.  Innate item for everyone would be okay as long as the actual consumable items where relatively limited and difficult to acquire. Would you keep each character with some unique skills or would it be completely dependent on that materia? What would you do with JP, and is there any need for EXP?
Current Projects:

RavenOfRazgriz

I would say Exp is needed.  You do want some kind of scaling.  Just make the level 1 raw stats equal to an average level 50 unit, set the level cap at 10 or 20, give each FFVII character unique growths, and go to town.  This'd also make the FFT units scaled properly, as the raw stat changes will affect them as well.  JP would only have niche use... you could use an ASM I had Pride make for me to hardset JP to something like 10 per Action (maybe do the same with Exp just because?), and give each character a pool of R/S/M to learn from.  Maybe also cost their Level 4 Limit Breaks and give them Levels 1-3 for free, as your average FFVII player should have at least most of the first three Limit Break tiers on their characters by the end of that disk.  This would give you enough things to buy to have some skill progression in their main jobs while still being decently believable in terms of being an FFVII-verse tie-in.  (Obviously, I'm assuming everyone's Primary Job contains their 7 Limit Breaks here.  I'd also say each should have a Critical Only requirement through ARH to better simulate FFVII and add more value to the customization elements, because that was a cool part of FFVII.)

Consumables I'd leave purchasable.  If you use my above idea, you can't break level 10 or 20 anyway, so your Gil gains are going to be fairly low, and you'll also probably be wanting to use FFT's gear on at least some of your characters, which'll be costing you a pretty penny in some cases.  Maybe raise consumable prices some to make sure things like the Cure materia are still important if really needed, though your FFVII cast wouldn't have Throw Item so the ranged-healing still would be important.

The only limitation I can think of is that your characters will only have one Materia Slot... but you can just make each Materia Accessory a bangle with pre-equipped Materia, explaining why it may have Cure, Cure 2, Fire-All, Shiva, and HP +40.  Yes, that should work quite nicely, since we can even have ALMA give stat modifications like one would see in FFVII with that kind of Materia mix equipped, and even in percents if we want to go to that level of detail.  This would again further distinct these Items from FFT accessories - which give things like Movement and Evasion and such that FFVII Accessories just wouldn't give.

Pickle Girl Fanboy

FF7 only has one weapon, one bracelet, and one accessory, so you could go with that and use the remaining equips for materia.  You'd have to rebalance everyone's stats, but you could do it.

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: Pickle Girl Fanboy on September 01, 2011, 07:05:15 pm
FF7 only has one weapon, one bracelet, and one accessory, so you could go with that and use the remaining equips for materia.  You'd have to rebalance everyone's stats, but you could do it.


The point is to try and have both universes intermingle, though, hence why I'm trying to fit everything into the accessory slot.  If you want to give up Cloud's unique body armor for a set of Secret Clothes you found, or a Black Costume you bought, you should be able to.

Though... most of the accessories from FFVII that I can remember can be translated into headgear, so we could always make the "unique" headgear just be FFVII accessories, giving buffs instead of HP.

Kokojo

I unfortunately don't think you will find any event editor crazy enought to help you in your quest.
I keep leaving, I keep coming back. Boomerang boy.

GeneralStrife

No, it would have to be FFT with some FF7 thrown in. I would NOT try to completely redo the game....just change some bits....

Joseph Strife

I realy liked Raven's idea of materia thing and all, and the new story can be made to fit in FFT's one, like they came to Ivalice by Besrodio's machine and then the "Materias they would have to find could be the same holy stones that Ramza and his mates have to find to save Alma. This can be realy interesting. We could make the initial party of 7 members be reduced to 5 (Cloud, Barret, Tifa, Red, and Aeris), no recruiting and no forms of inviting, you could only adquire party members (Cid, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith and maybe even Zack) in event, like when specials joins in vanilla. That way they could go in a jouney by ivalice till they join forces with Ramza and go to orbone for the final battle against Ajora and you know the rest. I think this can be made without much efforts, but you people may tell better than me.
Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...


Durbs

September 01, 2011, 08:49:10 pm #9 Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 08:51:10 pm by Durbs
Another simple idea is to have Cloud follow Ramza around from the beginning. His past could be shrouded in mystery; he would be in Gafgarion's party even before Ramza joins, and only Gaf knows his real secrets. And when he dies, it leaves Ramza in an awkward position. Until late game, when some of the zodiac stones become active, he would remain a fairly silent and pesimistic character, watching from the sidelines with only an occasional line or two, though he should have a full event or two where he becomes major to the story (perhaps saving Ramza or dealing the finising blow to a Zodiac creature). Cloud's normal sidequest could house Tifa and Aeris, also. In fact, deep dungeon could have a story battle with Sephiroth on each floor until the final floor where he becomes the Lv99 and mega-powerful one-winged angel. :D

Also loving the idea of using ALMA for the materia mechanic.
  • Modding version: PSX

Choto

I am fully supportive of a materia system. Mixing your magic into your weapons is tons of fun...

From an abilities standpoint - you already have Cloud's done... You have Sephiroths big ability in meteor, and tons of room to modify other abilities as they can best fit. Alot of the magic already has crossover between the games. Also there are quite a few monsters that would crossover. Red XIII's leap attack animation is already there..

Knights of the round might be a tough one to imitate ^_^

Sounds like it would be a worthwhile investment

Joseph Strife

Quote from: Durbs on September 01, 2011, 08:49:10 pm
Another simple idea is to have Cloud follow Ramza around from the beginning. His past could be shrouded in mystery; he would be in Gafgarion's party even before Ramza joins, and only Gaf knows his real secrets.

That's a great idea too Durbs, but i think it would be even better if he has a role in the story this way, if not he would only be an special that you can use or not, maybe the centir idea here is to make he and he's crew the center of the whole thing.

Quote from: Durbs on September 01, 2011, 08:49:10 pm
Until late game, when some of the zodiac stones become active, he would remain a fairly silent and pesimistic character, watching from the sidelines with only an occasional line or two, though he should have a full event or two where he becomes major to the story (perhaps saving Ramza or dealing the finising blow to a Zodiac creature). Cloud's normal sidequest could house Tifa and Aeris, also.

Oh Yeah, and  then the story begin to unfold from this point on, but if we have to go through the story till this point for the FF7 to start in FFT it would leave little space for creating a story in FFT if they would not just follow Ramza in vanilla's story.

Quote from: Durbs on September 01, 2011, 08:49:10 pm
In fact, deep dungeon could have a story battle with Sephiroth on each floor until the final floor where he becomes the Lv99 and mega-powerful one-winged angel. :D

Oh, I like this one, Deep Dungeon could be the bosses stages, Jenovas all over the Floors and Seph on the last floors, frist "Humam" form and after one-winged angel form.
Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...


GeneralStrife

You are over-thinking and over-complicating this patch.

Read this: http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=6125.0

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: GeneralStrife on September 01, 2011, 10:24:11 pm
You are over-thinking and over-complicating this patch.

Read this: http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=6125.0


Agreed.  This is why I love the second idea.  It's simple, it's adaptable, it fits within FFT's canon so it requires less overall story building, etc.  It also lets the game be a reasonable length while still not being overly long, meaning it can actually be completed.

Even my game mechanic ideas all just abuse basic functions of ALMA or other existing ASM hacks to replicate the FFVII mechanics, at the end of the day.  Keep it simple, stupids.  ^_^

Let Cloud's entire company pop in, let them go off on their own, maybe have a crossroads with Ramza if it happens naturally, and just keep it simple.  The story "goal" could honestly just be finding the various "treasure" Materia that already exist in FFT - and once you have them all, you can re-use the Time Machine and go back to FFVII-land.  No need to involve the Zodiac Stones when you have a more relevant plot device that already exists in the game, no reason to do obscenely complicated things when we have a simple and generally more natural plot hook staring us in the face, and one that allows use of every FFVII character and not just Cloud.  Etc.

Cheetah

I'm in total agreement with Raven's last statement. The final question is whether this idea would actually be fun. A lot of the fun factor for FFT comes from customizability. If you have all the original characters then you get some variety in what characters you use. Then you get some variability in who you give what materia, but otherwise it seems that abilities will be pretty consistent and linear.
Current Projects:

GeneralStrife

September 02, 2011, 01:50:58 am #15 Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 01:52:09 am by GeneralStrife
I was thinking more along the lines of slight equipment change, but major script change. I mean cloud as ramza and being like wtf where am I?!?! I AM NOT NAMED RAMZA! Or I AM NOT A BEOLUVE! Cloud is thrown into the story as ramza, not as himself.

Celdia

That's an amusing idea, GS. I'm left wondering how a character like Cloud would react to being put in Ramza's shoes, or even how others around him would react. I can only assume he'd be looked upon as insane and they'd try to confine him somewhere for his own good and then Cloud-Ramza would invariably try to escape...could turn into a "hunt the noble for his own good" scenario.

Or it could just be that no one cares about some young nobleman that's lost his mind and they just forget about him and get on with their silly little war. :P
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: Celdia#0

Twinees

September 02, 2011, 04:15:23 am #17 Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 04:15:47 am by Twinees
Alternatively, we could add events in to the original FFT where Cloud is retelling a story to Ramza (perhaps the event is activated by going to a particular bar/tavern or something like that). Like all the other ideas it would require events (and most probably new maps), but the benefit to this is the ability to add as little or as many events as we want. It wouldnt require doing a completely new storyline (perhaps materia and stuff still added) but it wouldnt become a massive project.
  • Modding version: PSX

Joseph Strife

Quote from: GeneralStrife on September 01, 2011, 10:24:11 pm
You are over-thinking and over-complicating this patch.

Sorry, you are right, it seems i got carried away :mrgreen:

Quote from: GeneralStrife on September 02, 2011, 01:50:58 am
I was thinking more along the lines of slight equipment change, but major script change. I mean cloud as ramza and being like wtf where am I?!?! I AM NOT NAMED RAMZA! Or I AM NOT A BEOLUVE! Cloud is thrown into the story as ramza, not as himself.

That sounds like real nice, it would onlt require text changing and the customization of the materia system. I realy like this idea. But we must see Cheetah's point, would this be fun, i mean, if we mix up FFT job system and this materia system, FFT job could use materia too? Or it would be only FF7 dudes? if we could come up with something like this it could be realy interesting, mixing all kind of materias with samurai, ninja and that kind of jobs.
Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...


Dome

September 02, 2011, 09:30:59 am #19 Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 09:55:43 am by Dome
Random, not-organized ideas from a FF7 fanboy

- The first battle should be the "Save Cloud" battle of the original game
Looking for Cloud, all the FF7 crew is teleported to Zarghidas, in the middle of the fight
It should also be the first (And the only) appearance of Ramza, which will be, for the fight, a guest

- Only 3 characters can be used in each fight, like in the original game (It will also make the game a bit harder and allow for more enemies on the field at once)
Final boss should be Sephiroth, OFC (And Ramza may re-appear again saying: "WTF? Why Altima isn't here?" For the lulz)

- Characters cannot change jobs, there is a slot for a weapon, an helmet, an armor and 2 materias, every materia should unlock something
Otherwise, characters can only use "Attack" "Item" and Limit (Which will work only during critical status)

- Make the game start at level 20 and make the max level 50: After all, the FF7 crew isn't made by newb in regard of fighting, and a lower maximum level = Better stats scaling/control

- Characters stats:
Cloud = Balanced
Barret = High HP and attack
Tifa = High attack and speed
Aeris = High magic and MP
Nanaki = High speed and magic
Cid = High speed and HP
Cait Sit = Magic and HP
Yuffie = Balanced
Vincent = Balanced

- Yuffie, like in the original game, should be an optional, secret character (Same goes for Vincent)

- Make the game's story 10/15 fights long, and allow the player to fight randoms (To train, and for the lulz of fighting random FFT monsters with FF7 characters)

- Some FFT character should make cameo appearance

- After the end of the final battle, allow the player to re-go to the world map, and unlock the DD
Put 10 extra fights (Without dialogues) in the DD, which should mimic FF7 story fights/contain ff7 custom sprites

Anyway...if you need any kind of help, just ask
This is the kind of project I WANT TO SEE FINISHED XD

P.s: Is there any way to import custom music?

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"