Hey everyone.
Most of you won't know who I am, but I collect gaming prototypes of all kinds in an effort to preserve them for the future. I've gotten my hands on an alpha build of the English translation for FFT, and I've started a playthrough over on my Youtube channel, which Ill resume when I wake up in a few hours.
So far, there have been a lot of little differences, in addition to the debug functions mostly working as you would expect.
Ill drop this here, showing some of the major differences going on. (Playing on a PS3 CFW for the time being).
(http://i.imgur.com/DC50JMC.jpg)
New user + reasonably out there claim = suspicious...
...He checks out, though! Link to his stream for those interested. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWs0yXwsZSU)
Quote from: Kaijyuu on January 16, 2016, 10:47:15 am
New user + reasonably out there claim = suspicious...
...He checks out, though! Link to his stream for those interested. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWs0yXwsZSU)
What can I say, I like to make a grand entrance.
If there is anything people want me to keep an eye out for, let me know. Going to start streaming in a little bit. I have a list of things in my head anyway.
What I'd like to see is a picture of the game itself. While what you've posted here does indeed show changed text, everyone here also knows that that can easily be done in FFTactext (one of our tools here on the site).
Not to say I'm doubting you, but we've heard these claims before, and seeing is believing.
It's a CD-r from 1997. Not much to see, but here you go:
(http://i.imgur.com/kc613ZP.jpg)
Took it on top of my GBA capture hardware from a different developer. Just take a look around my Youtube channel, and you'll see that I have no need to make things up. The builds itself is from September 1997, so after the JPN build but before the US release obviously. The debug functions work as they should, minus the party function which cant be selected
Oh no, you misunderstand, I'm not accusing YOU of making things up. My worry was that whoever sold it to you could've easily made some changes in tactext and burned it to a CD-R.
Not the case. This build has been floating around for 9 years now in the same persons hands, and pictures from that time period are still around if you look hard enough that show the same disk. File dates are all different. I have bought multiple prototypes from him, including Diablo on the Gameboy, and have received many more. He has a huge collection of prototypes, and has for a long, long time.
Fair enough.
Screenshots/video of the entire sets of bravestory treasures, bios, lands, and rumors would be nice, some people might find that interesting if there is anything different.
Streaming here if people want to catch it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWs0yXwsZSU
Edit: When would you normally unlock the sound novel bits in the JPN version?
Sound Novels are unlocked during propositions. They are a reward, you then go into the treasures menu, select the novel and hit triangle. However, on the USA version you need to do some hex editing to enable the actual novel portions of them, so I'm not sure you will have access to them in there other than to look at the novel description. They also will likely be in japanese, though we already have translated versions here on the site which will be released with TLW and Jot5.
The thing is that since this build is between the JPN and US releases, they might still be in the game despite this. Even if it is in Japanese, it's worth looking at. Are there specific propositions I should be doing?
Oh, i have no doubts that they will be there, i just have doubts that they will be any different than what we already have access to by changing 4 bytes of hex in the usa game. Since they were never translated I doubt the japanese in them will be different than what we ended up getting.
I honestly don't know which propositions would be best for them since i normally just activate them using the debugger in pSX. You can find their variables/flags on our wiki
Searching for more differences now
http://www.twitch.tv/ptoponline
Wow! What a find, I do sort of wish while watching your stream replays that you wouldn't dash through text, since that's where everything different would be andthe only differences here seems to be a translation in transition as evidenced by that terrific picture where it shows that they flirted with the idea of referring to the Orders in a more proper syntax before throwing their hands up and just calling them by their Japanese names.
Some differences I noticed throughout...
Stasis Sword - Steady Sword
"little money..." line is missing!
When you say "Something keeps popping up..." - It says "Reading..."
"A gang of thieves tortured is trying to..." Should be "gang of tortured thieves..."
Alazlam is currently Arazram.
In the Alpha, Ordalia is called "Sea Gull" by Zalbag.
Full stop when he mentions "Zeltennia".
Dycedarg is called Dycedag in the alpha, at least all throughout Balbanes's deathbed scene.
The intro text with Alazlam is different, I believe, but you skipped right by it so I can't say for sure if it was right or not.
Kind of surprising that they don't let you access the "Party" menu in this Pre-release. Party would let you choose from enemy formations as set by ENTD's as seen with the normal Debug code, but I suppose they didn't think a QA playtester would have needed those functions possibly?
It depends on which ones I played before. I have other footage of the beginning part of the game, so I went quickly. Most of the time, unless I zone out, Im quickly comparing the script on Gamefaqs with the alpha build.
Quote from: Borman on January 21, 2016, 06:42:26 pm
It depends on which ones I played before. I have other footage of the beginning part of the game, so I went quickly. Most of the time, unless I zone out, Im quickly comparing the script on Gamefaqs with the alpha build.
Well that is good. A microscopic lens should be taken to the script as you are doing. I believe the value of this will lie in seeing what steps the translators were taking as they seemed to nearly be finished by this point and why they chose what they chose or what errors they just didn't notice or care enough to fix.
Have there been any delineations in terms of events? Since this was a late preview model I highly doubt it, but you can't be too sure until all avenues are explored. For instance Ocarina of Time supposedly had you earning the Fire Arrows with the Fire Medallion even late enough for this bit of misinformation to get into the guides.
I doubt it since this is after the Japanese release. More likely would be things that were changed between the JPN release and the US release not being changed. Also the possibility of other leftover files. I havent quite figured out how to make the most of the full debug menu in battle though.
You can open the files with CD Mage (back it up first, of course) and post pictures of the files and we can tell you whether the files are the same size or not, or what files are missing or added.
Some random screens. Some have typos or differences, some dont. Going to upload to it from now on I think.
Edit: It took a while, but I finally hit non-translated parts.
(http://i.imgur.com/hPcvV1m.jpg)
Edit: Back to English, shortly before this
(http://i.imgur.com/wiqdmdq.jpg)
Edit: Just beat it. Stays English through the end. Didnt really do any sidequests though.
Was Elmdor's death line the only non-translated part?
No, there were a few full scenes in Japanese. I have a save from the area I think.
Edit:
Comparison of files. So only a couple of weeks early, but quite a few changes. Interesting!
(http://i.imgur.com/HotTrGp.jpg)
The Japanese version and the English version have several notable changes in JP and the like. A better comparison may be with the final English version and this Prototype. A shame that CD Mage doesn't show you total file sizes when it's an actual folder, but I guess you could open up each folder and examine their file sizes in that manner.
It is interesting all together though. The additions to Battle.bin means they've probably already fixed some of the bugs that are in the Japanese only release.
Will you be uploading the iso to the internets?
Already asked him that. He declined, since he spent so much money on it.
Alas. Should reconsider once it no longer gets ya any additional viewers.
Agreed, I still stand firm on my stance that there is nowhere better on the net to preserve it than with people who work with the game daily, or really, anywhere, so long as it is spread throughout the net for everyone to enjoy, like so many other rare games.
However, I had hoped for more to be different. Still waiting to see the treasure descriptions for the Sound Novels, I'm know the japanese in the books will be the same as both other versions anyway, but I'm curious if any of the treasure descriptions were different originally. Specifically for those 4 books.
The Internet isn't a perfect preservation tool. There are lots of issues with it, and it's something that I do a lot of research into and have explored doing properly backed research where I got my Master's degree. I've helped get many games online when it makes sense, not only financially (I always lose money, so it never makes sense hah) but also taking into consideration the game itself. I've also had games disappear after being uploaded online, too, thus the not-perfect park.
I don't really care about viewers. I stream to no one if I feel like it, just not a big deal. But I've had the opportunity to work with some amazing developers to cover amazing games. Im content knowing that my backup plans work fairly well for the budget I've allocated. I simply cannot afford a $1000+ loss on a disk, when this is one of many prototypes that have been on my radar for years. I dont see these games as an investment, but I also have no obligation to waste money either hah. I'm also not going to come to a new community and ask for money for me to upload it though either. Im content to poke and prod at it right now in my time, and to share what I do find in it.
It's not always a popular opinion, but I've been doing it for 10 years with some great success.
Popular or not, we'll have to agree to disagree
If you upload something to the net, it spreads, that's a fact, no debating that. Uploading something has zero chance of making it disappear since not only does your copy exist, but then it exists on the internet as well, where it NEVER truly disappears, hence it is forever preserved, so nah, that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Nor does making any money off something you didn't make. The working with developers part is irrelevant here as we are talking about a game that is nearly 20 years old and I don't think you are working for Squaresoft.
Again, your reasons are your reasons, I'm just giving my opinion on the matter, it's your game and you can do whatever you want with it. I just don't even see the point of doing it this way because I don't see how you "lose" money by sharing it with people if you still own the game? I will never understand the 'investment, great success, etc, etc, etc' parts of your messages unless you are indeed trying to make money back off of these games, which kinda goes against the rest of what you said, not even sure why you mentioned that or the masters degree since they are irrelevant and provide no weight to the conversation :P
The internet may not be a perfect preservation tool, however if you got hit by a car tomorrow, or had a heart attack or something, it would be lost forever, just sayin'.
Honestly, I still only care about the one thing I've mentioned several times, yet you never comment back on, which is the descriptions for the Sound Novels. And the only reason I even want to see those descriptions for the Sound Novels is that I've used translations and months of my time to fully restore the Sound Novels for people to be able to download and enjoy, and would like to see the descriptions for them.
Idunno Borman, why come here in the first place if you're not going to support modding?
It just sounds like "Look at me, I have something that you'd want to probe at!" then rub it in our faces.
Just my 2 cents.
*Gestures to MAME for an example of a wildly successful preservation model that won't be going away any time soon *
I mean yeah, the Final Fantasy IX beta is pretty much impossible to find anymore, but it wasn't really so much a beta as a review copy with only two surviving discs. It wasn't notable enough to be kept alive on the hundreds of trackers it was delivered to. By contrast, you can still find nearly everything that was ever released by Hidden Palace one way or another.
I'm actually quite impartial to what you do with your copy - I'd be much more interested in a Japanese beta with the rough maps and scenes present - but I have to agree with Elric.
Copies being what they are, I don't see how making them reduces preservation. I presume you'll be as adamant in preserving the data whether others have a copy or not.
Unless I'm missing something and ripping the data literally destroys the original disc.
Well he obviously made an image already. Who would be dumb enough to spend $1000 on a game then play it, using the CD itself being almost 20yo and risk having it explode during gameplay?
I have uploaded at least one game online that has zero copies left, and the disk has succumbed to bit rot. And sadly, my backup systems were less good then, so the disk is gone. Things do disappear on the Internet. Another issue is when things get screwed with so the game no longer works as it should, as has happened to multiple prototypes online. My time of uploading things to the Internet is quickly coming to a close as I finish some promises that I made.
I mention my education because this isn't stuff that Im just making up. I've talked with and worked with professionals in the field of archiving and digital preservation.
I came here because it seemed like the biggest FFT community out there, and I thought people would appreciate sharing of any findings. If I wanted to rub it in your face, I wouldn't bother sharing anything beyond the fact that I have it. I thought that you guys, being the expert modders, would know the game inside and out, or at least where the best, and more importantly, most accurate resources are online so I could properly reference them.
I lose money because the disk does instantly become worth hundreds of dollars less the second it is uploaded online. This is a fact. And should I have some sort of emergency where I need to sell the disk on, or if I can use it as leverage to preserve something else that I find to be more important, I can't afford to throw away $800+ just to make some people on the Internet happy. This isn't something unique to me, museums make all sorts of deals in order to obtain things that they otherwise couldn't. While I, again, have never made a penny, I'm also not going to throw away money. Want to upload it online? Buy it, and go for it. The disk had been available off and on over 10 years, anyone could have bought it and uploaded it in that time period.
If I die tomorrow, there are things in writing that will prevent my collection from disappearing. Won't make people on the Internet happy, but it will be done correctly.
The reason I haven't responded back is simply because I only have so much time to play the game. Without a clear way of unlocking things, Im not going to waste time. So Im taking things one step at a time. This is one of many games that I'm in the process of documenting.
MAME is a flawed tool. It does many things amazingly well, but in turn it also has limited legal uses (meaning, by institutions, by the companies, etc) due to the licenses and how things were written in the beginning.
Without speaking too much on the nature, I have also spent my own money just to get things on the internet that weren't there before. It's a complete monetary loss, and I usually would find them elsewhere with someone else taking the credit, but I see it as the difference between taking a near-extinct animal and bringing them back to low concern in captivity vs the older practice of killing the last one to hang its head in your den as a trophy - the latter shouldn't even be considered preservation.
I hate to bring up monetary value, so I'll apologize in advance... it's been offered to us before, and always for a price we deemed too steep for what it was. That it's been in this state for so many years makes a good indicator. It's not a rare cart that is guaranteed to sell whenever it comes up on eBay. Its value was destined to go down as soon as it was purchased for that price point. Making an investment of it, saying it's important to you that you'd be able to sell it again, makes as much sense as that head above the fireplace.
That said, I'm by no means calling for you to release it. If you did, I'm probably the least likely among us to poke and prod at it. You paid for it, you should do with it what you like. I just still am unable to understand how your research and experience led you to these decisions and views.
Quote from: Borman on January 25, 2016, 11:55:24 am
The reason I haven't responded back is simply because I only have so much time to play the game. Without a clear way of unlocking things, Im not going to waste time. So Im taking things one step at a time. This is one of many games that I'm in the process of documenting.
Quote from: Elric on January 16, 2016, 02:44:14 pm
You can find their variables/flags on our wiki
You have the debug menu so I have to assume you know what flags are...
I have nothing else to say aside from not understanding how that is a viable emergency plan since it supposedly took over 10 years to sell in the first place and it's existence has been known since that first popped up, but whatever floats your boat.
I don't care if you upload it or not. I, like the others here, just have some real O_o with your reasoning as it doesn't quite make sense. This is coming from a person who has spent just as much money on things that I've shared, so the money bit holds no bearing to my questions nor my inability to understand your reasoning.
What game did you upload to the internet that has disappeared? Out of curiosity.