LFT

[Asmo X]

By the way, I'm not sure what you meant by November 8th/November 22. I said November "08", as in, the year. The implication was that that was the first time it was discussed on that particular website, whereas I heard about it first on Gamefaqs. Well I found the topic I meant on Gamefaqs and it was in March of 09 or something so I was mistaken.

[Archael]

LFT has been around for fucking ages. It's only a bit more recent than 1.2 if memory serves.

Exactly, which means this ^ is wrong

[Asmo X]

How many times do I have to say that I conceded that point? It doesn't even fucking matter now. You have shit in your game second that was in their game first and whatever excuses you can come up with for that, could be spun around and used against whatever evidence you provide about how they "copied" you game. Also, you have conceded time and time again that LFT is NOTHING LIKE 1.3. So what you'd essentially have are bits and pieces of supposed plagiarism that have no bearing on the spirit of the game. Finally, there are some changes that could be identical, that you could have done first, but that you just can't call them out on. To take a really blatant example, making Cloud party level. That is an example of a change that several different parties, working in igorance of each other, could have easily come up with separately. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. You've obviously had it out for LFT since day 1, while the creator of that patch (Metroid Composite) has been nothing but genial towards yourself and 1.3 which is frankly more than either of you deserve.

[Archael]

How many times do I have to say that I conceded that point? It doesn't even fucking matter now. You have shit in your game second that was in their game first and whatever excuses you can come up with for that, could be spun around and used against whatever evidence you provide about how they "copied" you game.

Rafa hitting 10 times? lol yeah I'm sure that was put in 1.3 after LFT already had it

oh wait

Also, you have conceded time and time again that LFT is NOTHING LIKE 1.3. So what you'd essentially have are bits and pieces of supposed plagiarism that have no bearing on the spirit of the game. Finally, there are some changes that could be identical, that you could have done first, but that you just can't call them out on. To take a really blatant example, making Cloud party level. That is an example of a change that several different parties, working in igorance of each other, could have easily come up with separately. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Yeah, now take your example and multiply it by 50

are 50 identical changes also coincidences?

You've obviously had it out for LFT since day 1, while the creator of that patch (Metroid Composite) has been nothing but genial towards yourself and 1.3 which is frankly more than either of you deserve.

of course I've had it in for LFT since day 1

it's in the same vein as every other lolpatch

I hate lolpatches

and so should you

metroid composite thinks that you need to keep SCC and SSCCs possible in a rebalance of FFT, she better be genial towards others

btw I think you got the wrong link

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197339-f ... s/55272129

^ there's nothing there.. just a discussion on whether patches are playable on PSX

[Asmo X]

I didn't even check Rafa, I checked Malak. I don't know how it works with Rafa in either patch. They've had Malak hitting 10 times since November 08. You made that change way after.

Ok i'll tell you what. Go ahead and list the 50 examples. Just make absolutely sure that you only list the changes you definitely made first. And don't list any of the examples that could have been arrived at through common sense since you have no claim over those.

Me: A lolpatch is one where Ramza is given swordskills
You: A lolpatch is a patch that isn't 1.3

Edit: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197339-f ... s/48859711

[Archael]

I didn't even check Rafa, I checked Malak. I don't know how it works with Rafa in either patch. They've had Malak hitting 10 times since November 08. You made that change way after.

1.3 Malak has had 10 hits to him since September, patch version 13026

credibility level dropping asmo

Ok i'll tell you what. Go ahead and list the 50 examples. Just make absolutely sure that you only list the changes you definitely made first. And don't list any of the examples that could have been arrived at through common sense since you have no claim over those.

I'll do better

compare this
Posted 5/1/2008
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197339-f ... s/42891991

1) Create a more BALANCED, FUN, and CHALLENGING FFT experience.
2) Stay as close as posible to the original, so it can be a legitimate FFT experience.
3) Give every item and job a reason to be used.
4) This means NO huge changes, NO godlike jobs, and no 200 PA "Jimmy's Sword of Destruction" items.


to this
 November 22, 2008
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,2452.0.html

LFT has three main goals:
1. To improve the usability and balance in all aspects of gameplay. (classes, items, etc.)
2. To reduce the necessity of grind and other tedious aspects of the game. (faster JP gain, easier class unlocks, better poaches, etc.)
3. To streamline the game's difficulty so that it remained challenging to a well-versed player of FFT, without forcing optimization or extraneous leveling. (Special care has been taken to make sure that SCCs are, as a general rule of thumb, still possible.)


1.3 patch list with a nerdy D&D twist, Asmo (and that's not getting into 1.3's actual patch list)

Me: A lolpatch is one where Ramza is given swordskills
You: A lolpatch is a patch that isn't 1.3

a lolpatch is a patch made without a clear goal or with a set goal and fails to reach it

2 of LFT's "3 magic goals" (which is funnily similar to 1.3's initial goals when we posted that shit back in beta) were rebalance, more difficulty

and you know how they failed in that

many patches here on FFH aren't 1.3, and they aren't lolpatches either

they do what they set out to do, or atleast went in the right direction

and what I said in that old GF LFT thread is true! any non-storyline edit pure "rebalance" patch that even thinks of 1.3 auto-fails, for various reasons, more specifically the fact that 1.3 was established first and is the most successful one of it's kind, it's like CoP saying that it's nothing like Mercenaries in it's very first announcement... FAIL... don't bring it up in the first place

[Asmo X]

hahah no fucking way was that change to Malak made in September of TWO THOUSAND AND EIGHT. Nice try.

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. You tell me which changes you find incriminating. Besides, I'm looking at this thing and I can't see anything incriminating so far even down to individual numbers for JP costs and CT and shit like that. Am I supposed to accept such unspeakably vague terms as "rebalance" and "more difficulty" as evidence they ripped you off? Give me a motherfucking break. That is feeble as hell.

[Asmo X]

compare this
Posted 5/1/2008
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197339-f ... s/42891991

1) Create a more BALANCED, FUN, and CHALLENGING FFT experience.
2) Stay as close as posible to the original, so it can be a legitimate FFT experience.
3) Give every item and job a reason to be used.
4) This means NO huge changes, NO St. Ajora jobs, and no 200 PA "Jimmy's Sword of Destruction" items.


to this
 November 22, 2008
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,2452.0.html

LFT has three main goals:
1. To improve the usability and balance in all aspects of gameplay. (classes, items, etc.)
2. To reduce the necessity of grind and other tedious aspects of the game. (faster JP gain, easier class unlocks, better poaches, etc.)
3. To streamline the game's difficulty so that it remained challenging to a well-versed player of FFT, without forcing optimization or extraneous leveling. (Special care has been taken to make sure that SCCs are, as a general rule of thumb, still possible.)

Are you FUCKING kidding me. You are the most delusional fuck I have ever met. Those mission statements are NOTHING alike. And even if they were, the wording is so vague that you couldnt POSSIBLY lay claim to exclusivity over one aspect or another. Are you the only person who could have had the idea of making FFT harder?

and what I said in that old GF LFT thread is true! any non-storyline edit pure "rebalance" patch that even thinks of 1.3 auto-fails, for various reasons, more specifically the fact that 1.3 was established first and is the most successful one of it's kind, it's like CoP saying that it's nothing like Mercenaries in it's very first announcement... FAIL... don't bring it up in the first place

What in the hell does this even mean?

[Asmo X]

Thankfully I read through the Master Guide thread. 1.3027 portions were added Jan 19 2009. LFT had this change listed November of 2008. Note: I am still not accusing you of stealing this. Raijinili could have been spreading his ideas across a few different patches or you could have both come to the same idea independently. At the very least you should probably stop being a huge dick about LFT stealing 1.3s ideas since you haven't come up with anything resembling proof.

Edit: You took your post out. Perhaps it's time to stop acting like an asshole over this patch?

[Archael]

The change to Malak was made in 13027, 13027 was in 2009 (IIRC)? I'm not saying the change happened before someone brought it up on LFT discussion thread, I shouldn't need to - you know (you worked on 1.3) as well as anyone that

1) no one here even knew of LFT at the time 13027 was released
2) the 10 hit thing idea didn't come from LFT

I'm not saying that LFT ripped off 1.3 in the sense that they copied it change for change

I'm saying that LFT took 1.3's (1.2's) format in changing the game up, they changed the game in exactly the same ways 1.3 does, but with other goals, and created something below original FFT quality in the process - which to me is more lolpatchy than just straight getting a .fftpatch ISO and manning it up and editing that

1) Add some random battles to DD (though they were too lazy to do all of it / entire world map) - 0 cohesion to this approach
2) Edit Poach list
3) Monster rebalance
4) Edit JP costs
5) ASM hacks
6) Minor ENTD edits
7) Ability rebalance (while adding more ways to break the game)
8) Class rebalance (while adding more ways to break the game)
9) "Increased difficulty" <--- this has parenthesis because they didn't increase shit, they just gave me a class with innate Non-Charge

Sure their goals are very different, but everything from how the patch is presented to their excel documentation screams "I looked at 1.3 forum as a reference for this". Basically an "I wanna do it too" approach

and that's besides straight rips such as:

* [Spin Fist] effect area increased from 2v0 to 3v1
(Priests) * Can equip Flails
* All "Draw Out" moves now hit both allies and enemies, and if damaging, do not affect the user

LFT cannot distance itself from 1.3, which is why they autofail in bringing it up - you can't help but compare the two. Mercenaries can distance itself from 1.3 - LFT can't

[Archael]

Edit: You took your post out. Perhaps it's time to stop acting like an asshole over this patch?

I was editing my post

perhaps it's time to not reply too hastily?

[Asmo X]

you seriously cannot lay claim to exclusivity about any of those things. What you're basically saying is no one else can come to the conclusion to make changes to such broad, sweeping topics such as "monsters" or "abilities" without it somehow being inspired by 1.3. If they went into LFT with the intent to overhaul the entire game it is extraordinarily likely that they would put themselves to work on each and every one of those areas without needing to consult anyone for the idea first.

As for your specific examples:
Spin fist: This is just making the area wider. It doesn't take some spark of insight to come up with this idea.
Priest: Priests equip flails in other final fantasy games. As far as I can recall that was our reasoning for making the change. It's more than possible they came to the same conclusion.
Draw Out: This is an example of one of those changes that several different people can very likely come up with independently. Vincent and I had this very change for a patch we were working on. The same idea occurred to you at a later date and you added it to 1.3029, which was well into 09. When did they add it to LFT? Who the hell knows.

[Archael]

I'm not laying claim to exclusivity of those things: I'm saying that they consulted FFH forums regardless

They even have a version of LFT + Cheetah's LFT Complete up

- Patch download w/ PSP translation included  (combines FFT Complete with LFT). Note gameplay-related terms and documentation have not been changed (classes, items, abilities and whatnot still use vanilla translation, but story scenes, character names and locations use the WotL translation). Credit goes to Cheetah, creator of FFT Complete, for making this possible, as well as Tonfa for spending the time to compile this together.

You can be damn sure those fucks stared at FFH, and by stared at FFH, I mean stared at 1.3 forum

Hey, people can do whatever they want, as long as you are clear on what's what - and their documentation screams 1.3 base smacked with the name Laggy Fantasy Tactics for people who enjoy SCC

[Asmo X]

I was editing my post

perhaps it's time to not reply too hastily?

Ahahahah. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm going to reply to what's there. If you don't like that, stop posting hastily.

I'm not laying claim to exclusivity of those things: I'm saying that they consulted FFH forums regardless

They even have a version of LFT + Cheetah's LFT Complete up

- Patch download w/ PSP translation included  (combines FFT Complete with LFT). Note gameplay-related terms and documentation have not been changed (classes, items, abilities and whatnot still use vanilla translation, but story scenes, character names and locations use the WotL translation). Credit goes to Cheetah, creator of FFT Complete, for making this possible, as well as Tonfa for spending the time to compile this together.

You can be damn sure those fucks stared at FFH

You dick. That's the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF FFT: COMPLETE; to be a base for other patches. He gave Cheetah credit, what more do you want? Christ you are being such a fucking crybaby faggot over this patch.

E: Oh. They LOOKED at FFH? That's not what this is about. This is about them ripping off 1.3, not whether they looked at these forums which is such a pathetic thing to complain about it defies belief.

[Archael]

Asmo, it's a 1.3 ripoff made from guys who lurked around in FFH - I'm not so much complaining as letting you know how things really happened

There's rebalance patches that don't follow 1.3's pattern

LFT isn't one of those

I know you like playing devils' advocate on stuff like this, but you are getting nowhere

I'm sorry

[Asmo X]

I will now list all of your evidence

...


Oh that's right. You're only a champion of evidence and reasoned discourse when it comes to religion. For everything else you just use a firestorm of rhetoric and hope that no one calls you out on your bullshit.

[Archael]

I don't have to hope for anything

LFT speaks for itself

[LastingDawn]

To be fair, the First "patch" to have Malak hitting 10 times with Untruth was War of the Lions.

[Asmo X]

Well there you go. Those fiends from LFT copied War of the Lions.

[Archael]

lol