Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => FFT+ => Topic started by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 12:50:22 pm

Title: [Old] AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 12:50:22 pm
List of the fights:
1 - Female Knight Vs Male Ninja (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8247.msg163515#msg163515)
2 - Female Samurai Vs Male Geomancer (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8247.msg163627#msg163627)
3 - Male Squire Vs Female Wizard (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8247.msg163726#msg163726)
4 - Male Thief Vs Male Ninja (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8247.msg163935#msg163935)
5 - Heretic Ramza Vs Holy Knight Delita (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8247.msg166775#msg166775)


Rules:

- 1 on 1 fights
- Zeklaus desert is the place where the fights will take place
- The Iso used to record the fights is FFT: Plus. Check the master guide (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7519.msg153486#msg153486) if you have some doubt about the items/abilities
- Each fighter knows ALL the skills from their equipped skillsets
- Exceptions to this rules are always listed in the post
- Do not spoil the result of the fight. If you want to discuss, swear, whatever, please use the [spoiler][/spoiler] tag
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 12:51:15 pm
AI fight 1: Female Knight Vs Male Ninja

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2513/knightx.png)

VS

(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1978/ninjal.png)


Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 30, 2011, 12:55:33 pm
I really want to say Nena, but I think the low Faith and Dual Blood Swords will outdo whatever damage she does. What skills do they both know?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 12:56:43 pm
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 30, 2011, 12:55:33 pm
I really want to say Nena, but I think the low Faith and Dual Blood Swords will outdo whatever damage she does. What skills do they both know?

Good point.
Each fighter knows all the skills from the skillsets he/she equips
Added to the first post
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 30, 2011, 01:02:06 pm
Looking at it more now, she has Speed Save and can tank. MP Switch won't last long on ninja boy there thanks to the Icebrand/Kaiser Shield combo.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 01:03:12 pm
So...are you betting on the Knight?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 30, 2011, 01:05:33 pm
I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE! ;_;
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 01:06:16 pm
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 30, 2011, 01:05:33 pm
I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE! ;_;

Eheh
I try to make the fights as balanced as possible :-)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 30, 2011, 01:09:02 pm
How much WP is Blood Swords? 7?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 01:09:37 pm
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 30, 2011, 01:09:02 pm
How much WP is Blood Swords? 7?

10
Check the .img I posted ç_ç
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 30, 2011, 01:10:52 pm
Y'know what? I'm going to place my bet that -one- of these contestants will win. :)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 01:11:34 pm
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 30, 2011, 01:10:52 pm
Y'know what? I'm going to place my bet that -one- of these contestants will win. :)

>_>
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 30, 2011, 01:28:36 pm
Knight, easily.
Though it may turn out different if the AI on the ninja decides to not even deal with the knight, using his higher speed and move to just chuck shit at the Knight, but then there's the Kaiser Plate to get through. Amd then the Knight has Speed Save, which would mean eventually she'll catch up to him, ending the fight.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on December 30, 2011, 01:35:40 pm
Gotta go with Junk the Ninja on this one. He has the movement and speed advantage. Also, he can heal for ~400 damage each turn and Nena's only source of healing is chakra. The only way that I can see her winning is if Junk decides to use talk skill/misses with his blood Swords.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 30, 2011, 01:37:01 pm
Going to have to agree with Light on this. The Ninja seems to have the most advantages.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: formerdeathcorps on December 30, 2011, 01:38:40 pm
The ninja will win.

The ninja's MP Switch will go off at least once.  Thus, if no one evades or heals, even if the knight got first strike and the ninja had 9 SPD:
Knight attack
Ninja attack + Drain for 320 + MHPUP for 51 = 371 HP healed so the ninja would have 450 HP, enough to take two more hits.
Knight attack
Ninja attack + Drain + MHPUP ~ 400 HP
Knight attack
Ninja gets MP Switch
Ninja kills Knight

For the knight to win, she needs:
1) MP Switch not going off 3 times in a row.
2) At least 3 out of the 6 sword hits being blocked (because realistically, the ninja with 3/2x the SPD of the knight would get a double turn somewhere in the above sequence)
3) First Strike, possible only if the ninja wasted his first turn using talk skill and failing.

None of the three options are likely.  She needs at least two of the three to win.  Thus, I think Junk will easily win.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 01:52:37 pm
Remember guys that the units can do more than just attacking
The knight has ranged options with the ruins and Punch art, and the ninja can throw stuff and use talk skills
Also, don't forget the properties of each piece of equipment
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 04:24:01 pm
The battle has been recorded and the video it's already online...but hidden
Do you want to see it guys, or maybe I should wait some more time?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 30, 2011, 04:35:08 pm
Okay, checked those items, and now I think the ninja will take it.

Talk skill basically has: Don't Act, Sleep, Death Sentence(39%), Berserk (49%) and CT 0. The first two don't work because of the Grand Helmet, Death Sentence would be a good bet, IF it hits. Berserk can be a double edged sword (literally): On one hand, the Knight won't be able to use Chakra or Accumulate, but if the Knight gets a hit to land, it's likely that it'll be a One Hit KO.

CT 0 (@ 39%) would probably be the biggest asset that the ninja has going for him. His innate speed means it'll be easy to close the gap and make an attempt. If it hits, then it's likely that he can just keep doing it until his double turn, using that to attack. Even if it does not land, the Knight will likely be too far away to physically attack, perhaps a Wave Fist or stat break instead.

For the Knight, all of her Break skills have a decent chance at landing (80-85% for stats, and from 66(weapon)-73% for items). If she can get close and break one of his blood swords, he's kinda fucked. But that's assuming she can get in close.

I would get into the damage/healing ratios of both, but I'm not certain on a couple (huge) things: How much of a boost do you get when using Martial Arts for Punch Art? And, can the innate Protect on Maximillian be dispelled by Refute?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 04:41:03 pm
An "Always:" status can't be dispelled unless the item is broken
About martial arts: "It increases the effectiveness of all barehanded physical attacks by 1.5 except for Throw and Jump"
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 30, 2011, 04:53:34 pm
Then, that's 210 per Chakra (20*7 (1.5)), and his attacks will be a bit weak due to Protect, which is too much math for me to want to go through right now.

If he gets ANY status effect off (other than berserk) early, Ninja wins. He misses a couple and the Knight gets in range, Knight wins.
But even that is tough to say, since the knight will only get one turn up close before the ninja gets outta dodge, unless said ninja goes crazy and decides to just attack.

If I were a betting man, I'd go with the ninja, only because I value speed and a skillset that can disable over PA and HP. But it looks to be really close.
Will the ninja be throwing stars as well? Can assume hes going to toss balls because of his 108 gems, and hell that increases dark damage too so why not toss those Yagyus. But then she might get enough speed during those throws to become as fast as the ninja..

When it's decided, it will be quick. There's no room for back and forth in this battle, since the Knight hits too hard and the Ninja has the opportunity to kill the Knight without even touching her.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 04:55:05 pm
So, are you going to bet on the ninja?
IS THAT YOUR LAST WORD?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 30, 2011, 05:06:08 pm
...

I'm going to give it to the first person to land an attack.

Ninja hits with Death Sentence/CT 0, ninja.
Knight hits first (and brings ninja to critical), Knight wins, since being in critical would force the ninja to fight to regain his HP, and in a straight up fight, he'll lose every time.
Or would he? If going into critical, would he just opt to throw items and attack with status effects?

There are a few variables that would wildly change the outcome.
Plus there's the variable of the terrain itself. There are maybe a couple jumps that the knight wouldn't be able to make with 3 jump.

fuck it, ninja wins. his move, speed, and skill set all allow him to control the flow of battle. If he wants to attack up close he can (and not have to totally worry about retaliation with 30% dodge), but if he wants to just play keep away, it'll be easy for a long time, even if Speed save activates every time.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 30, 2011, 05:08:52 pm
lastly, the knight is female, which means her HP and PA are a little lower than what they could be as a male. HP isn't that big of a deal, but she'd have maybe 2 or 3 more PA, which would be a decent boost for Wave Fist, Earth Slash and Chakra.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 05:14:09 pm
Ok,you bet on ninja
Remember that you can see the stats on the .img I posted before
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 30, 2011, 05:20:53 pm
Yea, been using those stats thoroughly
and i didn't even bring in MP Switch into the equation, that means he's almost guaranteed to survive one attack, unless he gets REALLY unlucky. That further allows him to fight how he sees fit without concern for getting OHKO'd.
Ninjas are just amazing.
I just noticed that he's using gear I have right now, where the Knight is using some end-game DD items. That alone should speak volumes to the Ninja's innate power.

Are the thrown balls physical? Or is it half physical and half magical? That's pretty huge too, since if they are based on magic, the ninja will never have to worry about protect.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 30, 2011, 05:26:12 pm
Physical
P.s: Knights are very underrated >_>
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 30, 2011, 05:30:33 pm
then hm

that mixes it up a bit as well. he won't be able to run and gun because it'll be massively ineffective..
uuuughhhhh this is crazy, theory crafting is hard.
Now it's a case for her that she is a walking tank, he can't do enough damage to kill her without getting lucky on a status effect.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on December 30, 2011, 06:57:09 pm
Nice topic Dome! This is going to be great, i'll bet on the knight, a hard battle, but with chakra the knight can heal himself good enough to support  lots of hits for more speed then kill the ninja. When are you going to post the battle record?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on December 30, 2011, 08:00:52 pm
I'm going with the Knight.  When push comes to shove, I think the knight skillset will come out on top.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: 3lric on December 30, 2011, 08:02:33 pm
I just wanna see the video o.O
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on December 30, 2011, 08:17:29 pm
I'm gonna bet on the knight, but there's a lot of "if this attack hits with only a meager hit rate, then they win easily".
For instance, basically any of the talk skill debuffs, besides maybe sleep...
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 31, 2011, 04:41:08 am
Remember, do not spoil the result of the fight
If you want to discuss/swear/whatever about the result, please do it under "spoiler"
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 31, 2011, 04:49:08 am
...a 2% miss changed the entire outcome of that battle. Junk, you have been bludgeo'd for hammer.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 31, 2011, 07:12:42 am
She would have survived with 66 Hp even if that 98% hit landed.
What really turned Junk into...junk, it's that 25% weapon proc
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 31, 2011, 08:38:06 am
yay i am happy. something told me berserk would ruin that ninja, and it did. but it -was- close. i can understand wanting to stop her chakra or break skills, but at the cost of making her insane with damage? not that good of a trade. then he fucked up further by staying up close, but like we were talking about before, his throw skills wouldn't do that much damage. MP Switch activated, he got a dodge off, he was just silly in choice of status effect. 
loved that intro you made, classic.
more of these would be cool!
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 31, 2011, 08:41:09 am
The second fight has already been recorded and uploaded (It's just hidden) but I don't want to clutter the topic with discussion for the new fight yet
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on December 31, 2011, 10:41:31 am
Killed by an ice 2 proc, how sad. I knew talk skill was going to be the ninja's downfall, but not in the form of berserk.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 31, 2011, 11:15:33 am
AI fight 2: Female Samurai Vs Male Geomancer
(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/2646/femalesamurai.png)

VS

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2310/malegeo.png)


Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Eternal on December 31, 2011, 11:18:55 am
Going to go with Samurai on this one. She's immune to the Geomancer's debuffs, and I (think) Salty Rage gives Auto: Shell in FFT+, lowering Geomancy's damage. That failing, she has Murasame, Kiyomori, Masamune, and Chiri to help. Damage Split might be her undoing though, along with the Geomancer's Auto: Regen.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on December 31, 2011, 11:46:12 am
Jolene will win this fight. Protect + Defense UP will make the Geomancer's physical attack useless and she also has shell, which would reduce elemental. Samurai has more damage in her arsenal (Kiku, Chri). He also only has 50 brave, so its unlikely that damage split is going to save him. Both have Regen (Masamune/Light Robe), but Jolene has Murasame, which means she can negate any damage with a single turn.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on December 31, 2011, 12:06:43 pm
I'm betting on the samurai too.

I loved the ending to that first battle. Ninja was lined up for a FLAWLESS VICTORY, but then NOPE
LOLONEPOINTFIVESHOT
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on December 31, 2011, 12:10:15 pm
I'm going with the geomancer.  Even with the status effects nullified, I think the samurai is at a major disadvantage.

The first fight's ending was hilarious!  Knight FTW!
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 31, 2011, 12:19:46 pm
Damn, this looks to be pretty easy to call.
Samurai, in four turns. Damage split means she'll take a slight beating for dishing one out, but she has an early Wall, then can cast another the second Salty Rage's wears off. She can heal herself, Geomancer can't. The only thing that would make this a win for the Geomancer is status effects, but lol no, Ribbon.

Watch me be wrong, but this looks like a laughably easy win for the Samurai.
Defense UP AND Protect.
Shell AND Move HP Up
Healing AND Masamune (or murasame, whichever one gives her Haste and Regen)

He doesn't stand a chance.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on December 31, 2011, 12:31:25 pm
Then there's his brave too, only at 50. If he gets unlucky twice, he's dead.
And when he goes to attack, bam, 55% dodge
well, is Weapon Guard based on Brave? I thought it was always active..

And the geomancer is assuming that the Samurai will go for attacking draw outs, since he is based around negating magic damage. If she just says fuck that and just buffs herself before running in, he will have serious problems.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on December 31, 2011, 12:51:43 pm
I'm going with the samurai too in this one, her skills seems more efective coz of the ribbon than the geomancer's ones. But we have aegis to worry about... Samurai!

Yay! Knight won! 1 bet, 1 hit! :D
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on December 31, 2011, 10:01:13 pm
It's awesome to see so much support for this topic!
Just remember two things guys:
1) I always try to make the fights as balanced as possible
2) The AI, sometimes, is VERY stupid
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on December 31, 2011, 10:49:09 pm
The AI are devoted followers of the Random Number God, dontcha know. Going all "RANDOM NUMBERS FOR THE RANDOM NUMBER GOD" and using things like Warn and Throw Stone and stuff.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 01, 2012, 05:43:07 am
Remember, do not spoil the result of the fight
If you want to discuss/swear/whatever about the result, please do it under "spoiler"
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on January 01, 2012, 09:38:39 am
The AI is fucking retarded. Everything about that lined up in the Samurai's favor, but nope hey instead of healing myself I'm going to attack with >100 HP! im mad as if i put money on this shit
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on January 01, 2012, 10:15:26 am
*sigh* 0 for 2 so far :|. Samurai got unlucky with  Masamune not giving her Regen when she really needed it. Maybe I should start picking the underdogs more often.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 01, 2012, 10:42:54 am
The third fight has already been decided, and recorded
HOWEVER!
From now on, I will gladily accept requests!
Ask whatever you want, and I'll probably record it!
But please, don't ask clearly unbalanced stuff like Naked Archer Rafa VS Full DD Gear Orlandu xD
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 01, 2012, 11:36:38 am
Ha!  Right again!  The AI is just too stupid to expect the *right* decision to be made in terms of skillset.  Geomancer magic is just way too simple to get wrong: Fire & Forget.  That and Damage Split sealed the deal.


Request: I would love to see a thief battle -- perhaps versus a Ninja?  I suggest no maintenance on the Ninja and the thief's secondary skill might be Punch Art.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 01, 2012, 12:00:00 pm
Thief Vs Ninja Sounds fun
But, give us more info: Support/reactions/items equipped
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on January 01, 2012, 01:30:14 pm
I wonder how well a Lancer would do here. Being the only person on one team and using Jump can really mess with the other AI... but then again, is the lancer AI smart enough to use Jump?
Give the lancer a ribbon, something that grants haste (or lots of speed...), and... maybe white magic? Or maybe Draw Out.

I'm 1 and 1 for the betting. I liked the finisher for that second match too... victory by damage split, heheheh.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 01, 2012, 01:55:09 pm
These may just be naive suggestions, but here's a stab at it...

Thief:







Steal
Punch Art
Critical Quick
Precision
Move+1






Zorlin Shape
<EMPTY>
Thief Hat
Black Costume
Cursed Ring



Ninja:







Throw
Battle Skill
Abandon
Concentrate
Move+1






Sasuke Knife
Sasuke Knife
Black Hood
Secret Clothes
N-Kai Armlet



What I'm not sure about is how the N-Kai Armlet will affect the damage done by the Zorlin Shape, so please make any corrections/adjustments as necessary.  I'm still a bit hungover, so not thinking entirely straight. ;)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 01, 2012, 02:57:09 pm
I'll think about that a little, sounds like a fun fight (Expecially if the thief manages to strip naked the ninja xD)
Anyway, here is the third fight: (Put it in the next post for clarity's sake)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 01, 2012, 03:02:40 pm
AI fight 3: Male Squire Vs Female Wizard

(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3882/malesquire.png)

VS

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7468/femalewizard.png)




P.s: Chantage has been edited (No re-raise, it's pointless in a 1 Vs 1)
Death has been removed from the wizard's skillset

Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 01, 2012, 03:10:03 pm
Wow.  This is a tough one...

I'd say the Squire wins if the crossbow is able to get off the "double-shot" effect once or twice, but otherwise I think it's the Wizard's battle to take.  I'm gonna go with the Wizard.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on January 01, 2012, 03:14:22 pm
Hmm... I'm going with the Wizard.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 01, 2012, 03:15:23 pm
P.s: Chantage has been edited (No re-raise, it's pointless in a 1 Vs 1)
Death has been removed from the wizard's skillset
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 01, 2012, 07:45:08 pm
Hum... Going with the squire on this one, something tells me that gastrifits is going to be his salvation, along with critical quick

Dammit, for damage split, if he had regen instead of haste she would have a chance, now my score is 1x1
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on January 01, 2012, 08:44:41 pm
looks like another easy one
so fuck it im going the other way

Squire wins, doubleshot and critical quick activate and hell he's a lot faster too
but then again this could be over in a single cast of Flare or Firaga/ja.
Then what, she still has chantage, but with no reraise? Or are you giving her something different? And no flash hat over the black hood for more MA?

and shit she also doesn't have short charge, gonna have real problems getting anything off before getting shot in the chest
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on January 01, 2012, 09:16:23 pm
I'm going with the squire. He only has 40 Faith, plus the slight speed/move advantage. The Kaiser Plate is going to be annoying to get through, but he is going to hit her eventually.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 03, 2012, 05:11:31 am
Remember, do not spoil the result of the fight
If you want to discuss/swear/whatever about the result, please do it under "spoiler"
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 03, 2012, 07:50:56 am
Haha! I knew he would win with a double shot! 2 rights and 1 wrong, keep 'em coming! :D
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on January 03, 2012, 07:53:34 am
finally. looks like with these things you just have to Occam's Razor, trying to determine what they will do each turn only fucks up your guess. Everything happened as planned, and only spent like two minutes theory crafting.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on January 03, 2012, 10:23:38 am
I'm at 1 right and 2 wrong. *sigh*
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on January 03, 2012, 10:27:46 am
Double Shot FTW!
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 03, 2012, 11:58:26 am
Ha!  To quote myself: "I'd say the Squire wins if the crossbow is able to get off the "double-shot" effect once or twice, but otherwise I think it's the Wizard's battle to take.  I'm gonna go with the Wizard."

I thought the wizard had it there, but that double-shot did the trick.  I'm 2 for 3 thus far, but I really should get a half-point for this battle. ;)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 03, 2012, 12:36:40 pm
AI fight 4: Male Thief Vs Male Ninja

(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5426/thiefb.png)

VS

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9027/ninjapd.png)

Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 03, 2012, 01:08:57 pm
That will be realy balanced, i'm going to bet on the thief. If i'm not mistaken, rubber costume absorbs lightning, that can come from the coral sword. And the combination of feather mantle + weapon guard + the thiefs natural evasion is going to be hard to break trough.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on January 03, 2012, 03:06:07 pm
Ninja.
Counter Flood can trigger I think Blindness from the sand stage, which would cripple the Thief. Two attacks to one, Defense UP and a few long range breaks in Battle Skill. One Slow and that Thief is done. 
Question though, why give a Thief Precision, when he has innate Concentrate? Would it also increase the likelihood of his Punch Arts working? If not that is a silly support option.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 03, 2012, 03:22:24 pm
"Concentrate" does not make any attack/skill 100%
Just removes the P.Ev from the formula
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 03, 2012, 05:33:12 pm
Btw, do you guys have any suggestion for the next fight?
Feel free to use also monsters and specials, not only generics (Just -try- to make the fights balanced)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 03, 2012, 07:24:35 pm
Going with the thief here, simply because it's my favorite job in FFT.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on January 03, 2012, 08:19:34 pm
Going with the Thief on this one.

Prediction: Thief uses Secret Fist on the Ninja, outlasts Ninja, Thief wins!
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on January 03, 2012, 09:30:23 pm
Quote from: Dome on January 03, 2012, 03:22:24 pm
"Concentrate" does not make any attack/skill 100%
Just removes the P.Ev from the formula


wait what, if you're removing physical evasion from a physically based attack, wouldn't your to hit% be 100?
and even if it's the removal of natural evasion, same applies since the ninja doesn't have any other way to avoid being hit.
either way it looks like having Precision is useless
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 03, 2012, 09:35:08 pm
isn precision the knight ability that raises success rate of attacks and/or abilities by 33%?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on January 03, 2012, 10:42:42 pm
I'm going to bet on the ninja for this one.
Just because... well... ninja. (also, the bit about having two swords)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 04, 2012, 01:21:20 am
Quote from: Dynablade on January 03, 2012, 09:30:23 pm
wait what, if you're removing physical evasion from a physically based attack, wouldn't your to hit% be 100?
and even if it's the removal of natural evasion, same applies since the ninja doesn't have any other way to avoid being hit.
either way it looks like having Precision is useless

It's not useless for attempts at theft, which was why I included that in my AI battle suggestion...
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 04, 2012, 04:16:57 am
If the formula is (PA + 50)%, even if you ignore the P. Ev you won't get 100% (Unless you have 50 PA...which is highly unlikely)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 05, 2012, 11:32:07 am
Remember, do not spoil the result of the fight
If you want to discuss/swear/whatever about the result, please do it under "spoiler"
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dynablade on January 05, 2012, 11:58:06 am
okay that's it im done. the ai is dumb as shit, sure ill try to throw something instead of likely winning with two physical strikes
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 05, 2012, 12:21:18 pm
I give the dumb of the year award fot that ninja, and way to go! 3 right and 1 wrong, keep 'em coming! :D
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 05, 2012, 07:35:38 pm
HA!  That was an awesome battle.  3 for 4 over here.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on January 05, 2012, 07:49:59 pm
Lucky dodges and dumb moves by the Ninja gave the Thief the win. I'm finally back to even (2-2)!
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on January 06, 2012, 01:34:01 am
Apparently I suck at this... I'm at 1 right, 3 wrong. *Sigh*
If only that shuriken had hit... or if the ninja had gone for two attacks instead of one...
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 06, 2012, 04:52:23 am
So...any suggestion for the next fight?
Generics, monsters, specials...what do you want?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 06, 2012, 06:35:32 am
Maybe a Ramza vs Cloud Battle, don't know if that would be balanced tough.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 06, 2012, 07:42:22 am
Cloud can easily 100 % disable ramza with a short-charged finishing touch...XD
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 06, 2012, 08:11:12 am
that's what i tought XD
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 06, 2012, 08:39:23 am
Quote from: Dome on January 06, 2012, 04:52:23 am
So...any suggestion for the next fight?
Generics, monsters, specials...what do you want?

I'd like to see Rafa versus Malak, both with flattering equipment and supporting skills.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 06, 2012, 08:48:31 am
What do you mean with flattering equipment?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 06, 2012, 11:16:51 am
Quote from: Dome on January 06, 2012, 08:48:31 am
What do you mean with flattering equipment?

Well, to be honest, based on their special class, with generic equipment I'm fairly certain that Malak would dominate Rafa.  I think Rafa would need to have some really well thought-out equipment to battle the much more physical Malak.  I'm trying to think about what I would do to prepare her for that battle...
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on January 06, 2012, 12:10:23 pm
Perhaps...

Malak (Hell Knight):







Un-truth
Throw
Abandon
Precision
Move+1







Sasuke Knife
Sasuke Knife
Flash Hat
Secret Clothes
Diamond Armlet



Rafa (Heaven Knight):







Truth
White Magic
Abandon
Short Charge
Move+1






Mace of Zeus
<EMPTY>
Thief Hat
Secret Clothes
Cherche



Although I still think this favors Malak a great deal.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 08, 2012, 06:29:13 pm
Malak would wipe the floor with Rafa...
But a battle between them might be nice.
I'll see what I can do
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TragicHero on January 15, 2012, 02:52:32 am
Gah I was 3 for 3 until that last battle...stupid Ninja!


I'd like to see an Oracle vs Lancer battle :D
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Javed on January 17, 2012, 07:36:12 am
I'm going with the squire as he only has 40 Faith ....
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Javed on January 19, 2012, 06:39:17 am
Joseph, I like your posting .. thanks
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 19, 2012, 06:43:27 am
Quote from: Javed on January 19, 2012, 06:39:17 am
Joseph, I like your posting .. thanks

?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 19, 2012, 06:45:57 am
Quote from: Javed on January 19, 2012, 06:39:17 am
Joseph, I like your posting .. thanks

Thanks, but... which one? XD
The Ramza Vs Cloud one?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Taichii on January 19, 2012, 10:29:25 am
lancer vs. geomancer
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Avalanche on January 24, 2012, 03:13:32 pm
hi

i like this topic, so please more battles, if u find the time.
Ramza vs Delita would be an obvious Battle, i am sure you can ballance it pretty good with equipment :)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on January 24, 2012, 03:37:38 pm
Quote from: Avalanche on January 24, 2012, 03:13:32 pm
Ramza vs Delita would an obvious Battle, i am sure you can ballance it pretty good with equipment :)

Great idea, can you balance it Dome?
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on January 24, 2012, 04:02:07 pm
I'll try :-)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 05, 2012, 06:08:37 am
AI fight 5: Heretic Ramza Vs Holy Knight Delita

(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg821/scaled.php?server=821&filename=ramza.png&res=medium)

VS

(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg862/scaled.php?server=862&filename=delita.png&res=medium)



P.s: Delita starts first & Can't use Elixirs
Both Delita & Ramza are immortal flagged, Ramza has immunity to all swordskill statuses except Silence
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on February 05, 2012, 07:18:16 am
hum..., that damn aegis shield is gonna be a pain in the ass to get through and he still has abandon, i'll go with ramza.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Avalanche on February 05, 2012, 07:42:08 am
Delita also has much evade with weapon guard. Still  i think that Item will backfire at him because when he low he will waste his turns heal, but some goes with chakra. hmm im not sure because i dont know The skills of "warstrategy" well.
Think i  go with Ramza due to higher evasion and punch art
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 05, 2012, 07:53:02 am
Ops, forgot to add them to the master guide xD
The only relevant ability for this fight is "Focus" an instant-Ramza only skill that adds Regen, Protect and Shell on self for 15 Mp
But it's random flagged
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: HebrewToYou on February 05, 2012, 01:19:39 pm
Quote from: Dome on February 05, 2012, 07:53:02 am
Ops, forgot to add them to the master guide xD
The only relevant ability for this fight is "Focus" an instant-Ramza only skill that adds Regen, Protect and Shell on self for 15 Mp
But it's random flagged

What about Ultima?  Is that in Ramza's arsenal?

If Ultima is included, I'm going with Ramza -- otherwise I'm sticking with Delita.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 05, 2012, 01:41:45 pm
Ramza -can- use Ultima, but with Delita rocking Magic Defense Up and 55 Faith, I doubt Ramza will ever use it
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on February 05, 2012, 03:41:55 pm
I'm going with Ramza on this one. He has the slight movement/HP advantage. I do think that this will be a long battle due to both having a way to heal themselves and Weapon Guard + Save The Queen is going to give Delita some much needed evasion.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 05, 2012, 03:59:02 pm
I hope this battle is going to be fun...
Fighting with Delita is something almost everyone wanted at least once...I think
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 06, 2012, 11:38:21 am
Bump
I've already recorded (And uploaded) the fight. In few hours you will be able to see it :-)
If you still have to bet on who will win, this is the right moment!
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on February 06, 2012, 11:52:04 am
FIIK
I'll just go with Ramza  :cool:
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Avalanche on February 06, 2012, 12:00:33 pm
Is there noone betting on Delita?
Oh common this is boring
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on February 06, 2012, 12:20:18 pm
Quote from: Avalanche on February 06, 2012, 12:00:33 pm
Is there noone betting on Delita?
Oh common this is boring

It is way too balanced, i would like to see Delita winning, but this one looks like ramza will do it.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Taichii on February 07, 2012, 12:46:22 am
i would like to bet on delita XD
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on February 07, 2012, 03:38:29 am
By my understanding, Abandon doubles evasion and Ramza has an Aegis Shield.  However, I also understand Delita's Holy Sword techniques ride on Physical Evasion, of which Ramza has little.  Against a straight progression of battle, Ramza is nothing but a walking coffin.  One unlucky Critical strike from Delita and it's all over.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 07, 2012, 05:32:29 am
Regarding Ramza's skillset
Quote from: Dome on February 05, 2012, 07:53:02 am
The only relevant ability for this fight is "Focus" an instant-Ramza only skill that adds Regen, Protect and Shell on self for 15 Mp
But it's random flagged
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Avalanche on February 07, 2012, 06:49:04 am
Sorry what exactly does "random flagged" mean?

The problem is, that Ramza will use this spell only if he is already in critical´which might be to late. (But i am not sure how the ai works exactly)
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 07, 2012, 07:03:14 am
If it wasn't random flagged, the AI would use Focus on the first turn and then proceed to use it every time the statuses wear off
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Dome on February 07, 2012, 07:08:48 am
Remember, do not spoil the result of the fight
If you want to discuss/swear/whatever about the result, please do it under "spoiler"
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on February 07, 2012, 07:59:26 am
Aha! Ramza did it, i knew if Ramza manage to get delita critical he would finish him with a bull's eye. Now it's 4 rifgt and 1 wrong for me. Keep 'em coming! :D
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: TrueLight on February 07, 2012, 09:24:20 am
The movement advantage that Ramza had really helped him. He was able to get behind Delita and just kill him with high percent attacks. Delita got unlucky with the first two attacks missing, but he did end up putting up a good fight.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Taichii on February 07, 2012, 09:55:29 am
dafuq.. o_O
the AI attacked ramza upfront O__o
for sure it would evade LOL damn AI's
sorry Xd just my opinion XD
won't this have like.. three rounds? :D
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on February 07, 2012, 12:12:24 pm
I suck at predicting outcomes.  Weighing these guys on strength alone, Delita had a better hand, while Ramza could fight back using unarmed techniques.  However, Delita's low mobility, despite having lighter gear, meant that Ramza could put distance between them.

Very much a skin-of-my-teeth sort of fight.  The Bulls-Eye technique, despite having it operate differently from the character's standard weapon strike, makes for a perfect equalizer near the battle's end.  That's pretty sour.  Next time, if we involve these two in some spat in Zeklaus, have them tag-team a couple suckers, okay?


I recommend the next fight be between...

Boco vs. Worker 8
Green Dragon vs. Grand Marlborough
Rad as a Red Mage vs. a Wizard with Planar Magic (Black Mage)
Altima vs. Hashmalim (LOL)
Meliadoul vs. Isilude (OMG Dual-Wield Lances and Concentrate?)
Aerith (White Magic & Geomancy) vs. that prick extortionist Monk from the port city

No, let's get serious here.  The next fight should be between an Onmyoshi and a Wizard.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: shoruke on February 07, 2012, 12:17:09 pm
I'm at 2 right, 3 wrong.


Delita vs. Wiegraf for the next fight?
"Lightning Stab!"
"Lightning Stab!"
"Lightning Stab!"
"Lightning Stab!"
"Lightning Stab!"
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Smitson on June 18, 2012, 01:09:56 am
Somebody needs to get this started again!
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Joseph Strife on June 18, 2012, 10:40:49 am
Quote from: Smitson on June 18, 2012, 01:09:56 am
Somebody needs to get this started again!

This, there are some ideas up in the topic.
Title: Re: AI Battles topic!
Post by: Smitson on June 23, 2012, 07:50:25 pm
Agreed, this was pretty interesting.