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General => Archives => Ivalice Arena => Topic started by: R999 on June 23, 2010, 09:52:24 pm

Title: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (various updates, "Book Skills" )
Post by: R999 on June 23, 2010, 09:52:24 pm
This list will be the latest reference for IA's playable teams.


............................................................................................................
.........................................Playable Teams............................................
............................................................................................................

*Teams in Bold are finalized.


=== STRENGTH ===
Meliadoul (Divine Knight) + 3 Mercs
Zalbag (Knight Devout) + 3 Mercs
Grims (Black Knight) + 3 Mercs

=== INTELLECT ===
Cletian (Sorcerer) + 3 Mercs
Olan (Astrologist) + 3 Mercs
Valmafra (Arc Witch) + Desburiga "Lich" (Shadow Priest) + 2 Mercs

=== SPIRIT ===
Beowulf (Templar) + 3 Mercs
Mesdoram Elmdore (Damiyo) + 3 Mercs
Anastasia "Tiamat" (Dragon Knight) + Czar (Hydra pet) + 2 Mercs

=== AGILITY ===
Celia (Assassin) & Lettie (Assassin) + 2 Mercs
Wiegraf (White Knight) + Zorine "Marilith" (Marauder) + 2 Mercs
Rakunar "Kraken" (Pugilist) + 3 Mercs

=== ENDURANCE ===
Agrias (Holy Knight) & Ovelia (Cleric) + 2 Mercs
Gafgarion (Dark Knight) + 3 Mercs
Balk (Machinist) + Armstrong (Iron Giant) + 2 Mercs

=== BONUS TEAMS ===
Alicia (White Knight) & Lavian (White Knight) + 2 Mercs

............................................................................................................



Heros and Teams that were scrapped

[s:opap4sd7]Simon (Holy Priest) + 3 Mercs[/s:opap4sd7]
[s:opap4sd7]Malak (Netherseer) +  Rafa (Skyseer) + 2 Mercs[/s:opap4sd7]

[s:opap4sd7]Loffery (Divine Knight) + 3 Mercs
Reis (Dragonner)
Elidibus/Serpentarius (Arch Mage)
Mustadio (Engineer)
Worker 8 (Steel Giant)
Rafa (Skyseer)
Delita (Holy Knight)[/s:opap4sd7]




Hero Design Goals:




Legend

For offensive abilities,

[E, C, R, NZ] -- [Evadeable, Counterable (reactions that trigger on countergrasp), Reflectable*, No-Zodiac-Compat-Influence]

Likewise, we have [UE, UC, NR] = [Unevadeable, Uncounterable, Non-Reflectable].

E and C are usually mentioned.  If R is not present, assume NR (Non-reflectable).

*Note on Reflect. Reflect used as a means to block MP Damage attacks as well as abilities that may otherwise be overpowered against boss units (Bosses in IA always come with Always-Reflect). And yes, heals and buffs do pass through Reflect unlike traditional FFT; so there are no negative effects about the status.  


Range related symbols

v = vertical range.  For example, Range = 2v3 means range of 2, vertical range of 3.
radius = AoE radius. For example, Radius-2v2 means  area effect of 2, vertical effect of 2.
CT x = Has charge time of x.
VT = Vertical Tolerance depending on caster's height.
No-Follow = No following target on the CT spell.
Direct = Direct as in, can be blocked by obstacle or another target.
Linear = Linear AoE, usually hitting all panels up from caster to maximum range -- unless specified with minimum range.

It should be note that Linear and Self-AoE attacks imply VT automatically (usually not mentioned).

..
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: R999 on July 17, 2010, 08:22:07 pm
✦✦✦✦ Strength, Knights ✦✦✦✦


Meliadoul Tengille, Divine Knight
-- Her combat skills are unmatched when it comes to offense, her Mighty Sword can pass through defenses and even immobilize running targets.  


...............................................................................................................


Zalbag Beoulve, Knight Devout
-- A tactical knight, his Destroy Sword is feared for crippling physical fighters' strength and mages' mana.



...............................................................................................................


Baron Scott Grims, Black Knight
--


.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: R999 on July 17, 2010, 08:22:19 pm
✦✦✦✦ Intellect, Magicians ✦✦✦✦


Cletian Duroi, Sorcerer
-- When it comes to magick firepower, nobody comes close.



...............................................................................................................


Olan Durai, Astrologist
-- His power comes from manipulating the stars and space, putting time on his side can really shift the odds of battle.


...............................................................................................................


Valmafra Lenande, Arc Witch
-- Her Dark Magicks can disrupt minds, that itself is a weapon to be feared.


Desburiga "Lich", Shadow Priest
-- He is protected by a mysterious aura from Faith Magicks, whether it is black magick or white magick they never work on him.  However the Shadow Priest has a unique ability that is both destructive and self-healing at the same time.


.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: R999 on July 18, 2010, 12:11:09 am
✦✦✦✦ Spirit, Hybrids ✦✦✦✦


Beowulf Cadmus, Templar
--


...............................................................................................................

Mesdoram Elmdore, Daimyo
--




...............................................................................................................


Anastasia Crescent "Tiamat", Dragon Knight
--




Czar, Hydra Dragon
--



.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: R999 on July 18, 2010, 12:11:25 am
✦✦✦✦ Agility, Assassins ✦✦✦✦


Celia, Assassin
--



Lettie, Assassin
--



...............................................................................................................


Wiegraf Folles, White Knight
--



Zorine "Marilith", Marauder
--

...............................................................................................................


Rakunar "Kraken" Galthena,  Pugilist
--




.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: R999 on July 18, 2010, 12:11:35 am
✦✦✦✦ Endurance, Defenders ✦✦✦✦


Agrias Oaks, Holy Knight
-- A knight balanced in both offense and defense, her Holy Sword can strike multiple targets.


Ovelia Atkascha, Cleric
-- Though fragile, her Aegis Barrier is exceptional when it comes to support.

...............................................................................................................


Goffard Gaffgarion, Dark Knight
--



...............................................................................................................


Balk Fendsor, Machinist
--


Armstrong, Iron Giant
--

.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: R999 on July 18, 2010, 02:07:05 am
(reserved)
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: R999 on July 18, 2010, 06:44:17 am
(reserved)
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: winshmo2 on July 18, 2010, 02:11:33 pm
recoloring the effects might be a solution to give them new flair
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: Archael on July 18, 2010, 05:07:39 pm
or give them new, un-common effects

-_-

why does everything have to be lolswordskillart
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) -Now 16 Teams
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 18, 2010, 11:11:06 pm
Old Comments.
STRENGTH / KNIGHTS:

Agrias - cannot consent to skillset at all.  It's the same skill twice for all intents and purposes, except one inflicts Slow and the other breaks barriers.  For all purposes its the epitome of "derp" in a game that was originally all about the generics and all about removing that very same "derp."  Granted, we all remember Agrias for "derp Stasis Sword lolderp", but surely she could have more substance to her character?   Then again, she is on a two-Hero team, but it still feels like a waste of a character to me.

Ovelia - Holy Jesus.  I assume Aegis Barrier replaces Runic Barrier on her skillset.  Since she's meant to be an epic-tier support unit, the only thing I can comment on is free Initial: Reraise.  If her skill seriously has no MP cost (please tell me you just forgot it for the love of holy Ajora), she can already pass out Reraise like candy and even with an MP cost likely can via Move-MP UP.  She doesn't need it initially as well, that's just stupid.

Meliadoul - I don't like the idea of 45% unevadable, uncounterable damage.  Just 45%, uncosted, instant damage on its own is more than amazing even if both evadable and counterable.  Not allowing it to be those things either is nuts.  Fix that and I can let it slide for being a lone hero, either that or have her specialize in wholly unblockable, unevadable damage and crank that down to about 34-35%, where it still 3-hit kills but isn't so severe.  Icewolf Bite is fine, being a more epic version of the Gladiator's Don't Move skill, especially considering Don't Move is far more easily worked around / healed here.

Zalbag - 25% -3 PA seems like it could get silly vs bosses.  That's my only beef with his two skills really, though he can also wreck Monks really freakin' hard.

CLOSING THOUGHTS:  Agrias is the main one that's disappointing here.  Beyond that, they do have an air of "derp swordskill", but the question is how much of that can be fixed without removing the essence of the characters themselves.  Obviously it can't be entirely removed because people remember them exactly for their Swordskills, but it should be reducible some.

=================================

INTELLECT / MAGICIANS:

Cletian - I would say "No MP Costs?" but he is a lone unit.  I like how these skills are designed, rewarding the player for focusing on MA... however, their lack of MP cost also makes them easily usable on other Jobs unless you put some kind of restriction on them via ARH.  Then again, he does have Magic AttackUP and Teleport if you choose to stick with his unique class, so that may not be an issue.

Olan - Celestial Stasis, sure, but why did you change it to inflict Stop / Don't Move / Slow over Vanilla's Stop / Don't Move / Don't Act?   One of Haste II or Lockdown seems like it should come with an MP cost, the ability to spam both Stop and Haste for free is an easy formula for victory due to the huge shift in turn count.

Valmafra - Mind Blast seems silly spammable autowin and Psychic Scream II, given how you designed abilities in order to manipulate the AI, actually seems pretty mediocre for a "FUCK I MIGHT DIE" skill.  I think you need to take a little away from Mind Blast and give to Psychic Scream II to balance things off a bit, as Confusion isn't anywhere near as good as it once was here.

Lich - Holy shit.  I know CT5 puts Unholy Darkness among the slowest skills in IA but holy shit.  Please tell me that's at least evadable / counterable.  I'd tone this skill down some or make Lich one of the few heroes actually fully vulnerable to manaburn, because the current version seems incredibly ridiculous in any situation where the player's competent enough to check CT and not get midcharged like a chump.

CLOSING THOUGHTS: More unique per unit than the Knights, for sure.  I think the only irksome thing is that every mage randomly knows how to Teleport, which likely isn't a big deal, but we know at least Olan can't once we hit actual FFT... does he forget how?  Lol.  That's the only thing I'd consider changing, outside of what I noted.  

=================================

SPIRIT / HYBRIDS:

Beowulf - Shock = Derp. That better be there.  I'd make his other skill inflict Chicken, because he's infamous for that as well.  Possibly give him a Paladin Base Skillset?

CLOSING THOUGHTS:  N/A, this section is currently incomplete.

=================================

AGILITY / ASSASSINS:

Wiegraf - Not the most original thing ever, but sure.  It feels like derpswordskill though, but since we're dealing with a Swordskiller our best bet is to try and break that feel via his other skill(s).

[I'll comment on the others once they're completed.]

=================================

ENDURANCE / DEFENDERS:

Gafgarion - A solid example of keeping his spirit without succumbing entirely to derpSwordskill.  If Abyssal Blade is using a Draw Out AoE, use the Kotetsu animation.  When you say PA damage on Abyssal Blade, does that literally mean damage = current PA?  That seems worthless, so I'm assuming its PA*Y or something similar... but without the Y, it's hard to give an exact score.  If the Knights at the beginning were more like Gafgarion (one signature Swordskill, other useful abilities that aren't derpSwordskills) they would be much better, imo.  (I don't really consider Abyssal Blade a Swordskill, btw, as it doesn't follow the basic Swordskill formula but rather the Draw Out formula of designing skills.)

[Again, section currently incomplete, so no closing thoughts yet.]

=================================

FINAL OVERVIEW:  The Strength / Knights need work, but the rest are solid so far.  Really, you need to make those guys a bit less "derp", since with only very slight touches none of the other characters seem to suffer from that symptom the way those three do.  No suggestions quite yet on actually fixing them but when I get a workable idea I'll pass it on to you.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Most up to date) - (Beowulf & Elmdore)
Post by: R999 on July 19, 2010, 01:46:23 am
Old comments.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.

@Raven: I didn't know it wasn't obvious but I haven't added the MP costs to the spells yet. I likely need your advice on that.  That seemed to be the number one complaint among everything else.

Ovelia is suppose to be a slower and more fragile than a White Mage with basically the same properties otherwise, but with a much better buff of course.  Or at least that's the plan.. she's suppose to be only on par with the generics (marginally better) leaving us more room to expand on Agrias' usefulness (though, we should leave all the buffing and healing to Ovelia). Ovelia should be still desirable to have in her party for story related reasons.


Meliadoul. We need to balance out Lich's Unholy Darkness and Meliadoul's Hellscreamer. When you factor in the Warlock's Life Drain ability stealing 25% HP, Gladiator's Overpower doing 30% HP damage at range-2,  45% isn't much for a Hero skill overall.  It will hurt tanks the most, but otherwise it is unlikely to even touch the usual 450 aggro damage barrier. What kind of unit would have 999 HP? Meliadoul is suppose to be the strongest among the 3 Strength type heroes, this skill puts her closer to that.  Also, while the other percentile attacks are also evadeable/counter-able, however, they are magic based (which means M-Ev). I suppose we can tone down the damage a little bit... Hellscreamer only has as much range as a spear (range-2) and has less vertical range than that (vert 1). It's not exactly overpowering especially for the strongest in power Hero type unit.  I'll anxious to see what you can come up with.




-------------- Updated Beowulf and Elmdore skills.  We need to diversify further, more skills to come (the hero sets are not completed, we are just adding more as we go).


Edit: We have major progress with making new Special Effects all thanks to no other than Zodiac. Check out the Special Effects thread in the IA Artwork subforum for details. Expect to see new special effects for our new Heroes.



------ Huge update on Hero abilities! Much thanks to Lasting_Dawn, Eternal, and Raven for contributions and comments.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Zorine, Rakunar, Grims, etc update)
Post by: R999 on July 24, 2010, 05:25:43 am
Major update on Hero skills once again.  Please review one more time.  This update includes skills for Agrias, Meliadoul, Zalbag, and much more.

Baron Grims team and Agrias team may swap categoric positions in the next revision.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Zalbag, Meliadoul, Agrias, and more)
Post by: The Damned on July 24, 2010, 02:42:02 pm
(Whoops. Hit enter and submitted this way before I was anywhere near finished. Now I feel extra stupid no top of taking so long to recognize the four fiends. Please forgive any typos. EDIT: Now that I've woken up 16 hours later, all typos should have been slain here.)

Okay, I finally read through all the threads on the forum except for the story one and the artwork one. So please forgive me if I ask to confirm something obvious:


I'm guessing this is at least somewhat correct?

With that seemingly figured out, I must say that it's difficult to judge these classes in a vacuum since I couldn't find anything about what abilities the generics have at the moment, but I suppose I shall try. (Also doesn't help that I'm not familiar with some of notation you're using, mostly the stuff in brackets. I'm pretty sure "E" is "enemy" and "R" is "reflectable", beyond that....)

Here is my uninformed opinion:

Strength

Intellect

Spirit

Agility

Endurance


I think that covers everyone. I would concur that Agrias & Ovelia need to be switched to Endurance and Grims needs to be switched to Strength. Agrias is basically Ovelia's Armstrong, except that Ovelia can buff and heal other people outside of Agrias, so Agrias is arguably weaker than Armstrong.
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Zalbag, Meliadoul, Agrias, and more)
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 24, 2010, 06:32:00 pm
@The Damned: E/UE = Evadable/Unevadable, C/UC = Counterable/Uncounterable, R = Reflectable.  Reflect's purpose in IA is also slightly different than normal, so what is and is not reflectable will seem odd at first.  Also, many skills don't list MP since the base MP on some heroes isn't even decided yet.

Make Baron Grimms your third strength unit and make Agrias + Ovelia an Endurance team.  They fit that role far better... and lets be real, Baron Grims uses an Axe, RIP AND TEAR essentially is part of his job description the second you decided that.

With that in mind -

Agrias.  She should have Tier 2 base MP.  I also don't like her sharing Cleanse with Meliadoul, but meh, its not that bad and at least pretty sensible.  Her remaining two skills should come from the Paladin class, specifically two of its more defensive non-weapon specific skills.

Ovelia.  She should have Tier 3 base MP, which combines well with innate Half of MP to make her a highly advanced Priest.  Her remaining four skills should be the non-weapon, non-gender specific skills of the Priest class, and include the Raise spell.  (Possibly flag Runic Barrier as the White Mage's weapon-specific skill, since Ovelia doesn't need it and its a rather powerful spell.)  Aegis Barrier should have a base MP cost of 40 or more, which gets halved to 20 by Half of MP and costly enough but not too much as Ovelia's most likely to also be sporting Move-MP UP and has access to the mage's nice MP+ gear.  Otherwise, yes, I think removing Reraise from Ovelia and Aegis Barrier might be for the best, its a really powerful status to just lump in to a spell.

---

Meliadoul.  Give her tier 1 MP, and low-cost skills.  This makes her better skills slightly costed, but unlike Agrias and Ovelia less reliant on MP to actually function.  Hellscreamer should have a cost of 8, Icewolf Bite 10, Shellbust Stab 0 (I refuse to accept "Shatter Armor" as a name, that's just as terrible as "Crush Armor"), Mighty Guard 12, Cleanse 0, though she's a bit less "RIP AND TEAR" than I was expecting.  The only one I dislike is Unfortify, it seems really gimmicky and takes two actions to do what a supporting Priest or Summoner can likely do in one.  I recommend replacing it with an offensive skill that can 100% shatter Defending / Floating / Reflect for (PA*WP+2) damage, 3 range / 0 vert / 0 CT / UE / C for 12-16 MP.  It could be called... Blastar Crush!  Otherwise, yeah, Hellscreamer may need toning back but otherwise she's looking a bit more whole now.

---

Zalbag.  Looks awesome, not much to say.  I'd give him Tier 3 base MP with decent costs to skill, along with enough MA that he could theoretically be an offensive magic carrier as a secondary, which would make him rather distinct from Meliadoul and Agrias/Grims.

---

Cletian.  Arcane Shards should inflict Slow just like other Ice Magicks.  Dark Flare II should be Dark Flarestar, because FFIX is amazing.  Normally I would say he needs a sixth move, but he looks suitably fit out and he can take all the Black Magicks that his unique skills don't supercede, including the male-only skill.  It'll technically give him the largest skillset, but its fittingly so.  I want to say he should actually have Tier 2 base MP.  Cletian already comes with tons of magic power before equipment, loading up even more should cost something since he really doesn't suffer from taking MP gear.

---

Olan.  Meteor can be Fa(MA*Y).  The Blade/Arrow/Axe should be consolidated down to just Magician's Blade if the intent was to actually have all 3.  That would be like wasting space to give Agrias both vanilla Stasis Sword and vanilla Lightning Stab.  We're not doing that kind of garbage.  Tier 3-4 MP and higher end MP costs seems like a good way to go with Olan in terms of MP balance.  A powerful supporting caster who can make up for a lack of raw power for the ability to carry almost any other magic skillset as a secondary without much trouble (again, outside of raw damage output) and the ability to more freely compensate with +MA gear would make him distinctive from the others and suit his skillset well.

---

Valmafra.  Antithesis II needs a new name.  A Hero should not have an advanced version of another Hero's skill.  Also, she needs some way to deal with opposing bosses.  Her Psychic Scream II should be 100% straight up.  My main problem with her is that, for a two-Hero team with one member who can easily steal the Phantom's entire set, she uses too many unique skills.  Give her Dark Cura, combine her other skills into one each of a buffed at-will status and critical status spells, and fill her up with any non-unique Phantom skills she doesn't overlap on.  This would be far better than her current setup, IMO, because as it stands she uses a whole bunch of skill slots and really isn't that amazing for it.  Tier 2 MP could do for her, with her spells having MP costs that reflect that.

Lich. Unholy Darkness... I suppose if it's a giant mana-dump I can let it slide, looking at it again.  Though I'm tempted to say to reduce it to 49% so he can't twoshot any unit in the game, similar to Meliadoul's Hellscreamer.  I can assume his Summon will do some kind of raw MA*Y damage or will otherwise be useful against bosses?  With Warlock filling out his skillset, I do question what the hell he could sub, though.  Unlike The Damned, I easily find him the most unique Hero, which will be a good thing if you can make at least one of him and Valmafra not shit against boss units.  He obviously, OBVIOUSLY needs Tier 4 MP, but yeah.

---

Beowulf.  He's also looking rather well off now.  He needs a 6th skill, but beyond that he seems rather nicely set.  Lower end on both PA and MA, with Tier 4 MP and suitable costs to skills would fill him out nicely, allowing him to focus on a variety of things despite not being a huge source of damage, kind of like Olan but supporting his team in an entirely different way.  Also, Shock! should obviously use Shock!'s animation, that shouldn't even be a question.

---

Elmdor.  He should be built kind of like an FFT samurai.  Lower Speed, higher end PA/MA, versatile abilities that let him multitask well even if not the best at any one role... which your abilities do rather well already.  None of his skills should be MP costed, but their actual output should be below that of other heroes to compensate - allowing him to focus all his MP and high stats into a secondary set while maintaining a ton of versatility from his primary one.  It would be quite an interesting Hero, to be sure, especially with a solid Tier 2 MP.

---

Anastasia. She's solid, and needs more skills due to having a monster ally so 5 skills + secondary hero is acceptable.  White Wind seems like something you could just give to generic Dragoons... honestly, she has a rather nice set, but some of it seems redundant when you consider she can draw so much from the very solid Dragoon class that does similar things, as far as I remember.  Otherwise, she's really nice.

Czar.  Also solid.  This team gives me a very big "RIP AND TEAR" feel, which is nice since Beowulf is so defensive.

---

[I'll review the last couple sets later]
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Zalbag, Meliadoul, Agrias, and more)
Post by: R999 on July 24, 2010, 07:41:04 pm
Title: Re: ★ IA Heroes & Teams (Grims update)
Post by: R999 on July 26, 2010, 05:03:27 am
Baron Grims (complete revamp) -- Now officially the strongest Strength Hero, along with a new skillset. He's almost like a Black Mage now in the sense that he's all about firepower. His strongest attack is melee range, but he also have ranged options of which would require MA, as they are elemental attacks rather than Physical. He still have room for 1 more skill possibly.

Also updated the Hero Equipment and misc things for all of the Hero jobs. Much thanks to Lasting_Dawn and Eternal for suggestions and feedback.

Wiegraf and Balk are still a work-in-progress at this point.  Ovelia and Rakunar may need additional work, and certain Heroes may need another skill or two. Shortly after this and after our meeting I should be back to spriting again. I'll leave it up to Raven to decide on the Hero jobs' stat scaling.



Update: Second round of updates for Hero equipment, much much thanks to LD and Eternal.





Update: Changes to Wiegraf, Balk, Olan, Desburiga.  Yes you read that right, Book Range skills.