Who is right ??

[Algus]

I always playing FFT until the end but I still don't understand with the scenario. And I always read every word from the character(what they said).

The problem is who is the right ?

Beoulve, DeathCorps or Nanten ?

As I know the right is DeathCorps. They are not deserve to die...

[Mental_Gear]

They are not deserve to die... Sad

All your base are belong to Algus.

Seriously though, I agree. The Death Corps didn't take a life of thievery because they wanted to - but because they HAD to. The other characters' crimes were born of greed and corruption.

Side note: General material - this forum's for discussing hacking, not the game, AFAIK.

[LastingDawn]

No matter, story discussion is sadly lacking unfortunately.

I personally believe, none were correct in their actions. Zalbag and Dycedarg did nothing to try and help the common man, they acted as an arm of the Hokuten and that's basically it. The Death Corps on the other hand were soldiers who fought for the lands of Ivalice yet were given no recompense for their pains. Their leader Wiegraf expanded his reign of influence to stand for "all" commoners, and became immensely famous amongst the larger populace. The Death Corps themselves weren't exactly sound in morals, the majority of them were common thieves that showed no mercy and killed for the sake of killing (it can be argued that particular detachment belonged to Gustav though.) The real reason the Death Corps fell was because of their divided forces, with Gustav as second in command, he took a large chunk of the troops and managed to convince his troops that he could get them all out of their alive, well, and much better off than before. Also Wiegraf's purge must have done a lot more harm then good. When a leader turns back to kill his second in command and his own troops, there would be a large loss of morale. Dycedarg mentions that they were setting up for the final strike when Ramza returns to Igros after rescuing Elmdor. So the Death Corps would be in poor straits by that point...

All in all, none of them were in the right, yet Wiegraf had the most noble reasonings, even though his thoughts were, still at that time, solely on revenge against the nobles that robbed them of house and home. Though the intro does mention that the common man backed Duke Larg and that the powerful nobles backed Goltana, and we can see from Goltana's methods of battle, he cared little for his people. While we can't be certain what Larg had thought of the people he ruled over.

[Algus]

I understand now, But still... for me The Death Corps is the right. From what you say they are created from all [commoners] in Ivalice World and they are trying to [against] the [dirty] nobles.

Wiegraf, Miluda, Gustav and the others... is not deserve to die, they are only need a justice.

[Cheetah]

Play the War of the Lions PSP port, makes everything so much clearer. Does this topic need to be moved to the "General" section though?

[Wasabi]

Cheetah, I believe so (in terms of moving).

War is a very complicated matter. It's difficult to elate what is right or wrong in terms of ethics and polity for the common man, for the every man. It can be misconstrued to say that the Death Corps were in the "right" and just imo, considering it is a reign with a perceivably just motive, but with a poor and unjust ranking of management as LD has described. Now, the "Dead Men," the ones that preceded the Death Corps, I find just considering that they followed their duties with efficiency and diligence. And had Lord Balbanes still lived, he and Orlandu would be in rightfully just positions during this war-time era.

But I digress, since the examples that I've mentioned are just only by their fealty to their lordship and/or duty. During the War of the Lions, everyone played dirty and struggled for the crown. Many ideals that should have been considered were obscenely overlooked, such as the governship over his people with Duke Goltana, or the lacking abidement for the common man with House Beoulve. Those that were under Duke Larg, Goltana, or the Church of Glabados wanted to sway and dominate the land under their own iron fist, and those that followed each of these powers were only victimized by this haphazard struggle.

Again, it's complicated. It's hard to say who is right or wrong when it comes to war.

[SilvasRuin]

Ramza was the guy who was right as he wanted to stop the violence and he killed all the demons.  At least he wasn't quite as cliche as that makes him sound though...

As for factions?  They were all out for themselves.

[Orlandu]

nobody right in this war. all is fair in love and war

every side has their own good and bad.. in the first place, the war started for "not" right reason no?
IIRC the lion war started because of a power struggle right?

that if we're talking about side.. but if we talk about person, some person are right, while other are righteous.


"a nation exists because of the people!"

[Kaijyuu]

Yeah seriously. No one's "right" in a war. Not even Ramza or Balbanes, who both killed lots and lots of people (though of course they never wanted to).

[iopyud]

No one's right? Why? Are they all left? *Snort*

[Algus]

Yeah...and there's something make me confuse.
so, what is the purpose of this game is made if the character is just not right ?

[Mental_Gear]

Yeah...and there's something make me confuse.
so, what is the purpose of this game is made if the character is just not right ?

But Ramza was right - yes, he did have the superiority complex of the other nobles at the start, but eventually he carves his own identity. If Ramza was neither right or wrong, I think it would be more clear. The reason Braveheart rules and Kingdom of Heaven sucks is because Braveheart has a definite 'goodie' and 'baddie', but KoH was too true to history, in that 'there is no good and bad, only thinking make it so'.

I can't see Ramza as anything other than a hero by the end.

[Wasabi]

so, what is the purpose of this game is made if the character is just not right ?

To be [supposedly] historically accurate, as Mental Gear mentioned in his post.

Just as how texts and history have been recorded by human hand, so will their bias be left in their writing. The "impression" of what is "right" has long been an abusive and manipulative quality in literature that somehow warps minds in believing and/or questioning what is "right/wrong" or "correct/false." Granted there have been other ethical subjectivities that have made us perceive many matters as either white or black in concept (ie. government, religion, familial authority, etc.), it is somehow inconceivable to think some matters are and should be seen as "grey" or residing somewhere in the middle ground.

In the case of FFT, we are perceiving the tale of the War of the Lions through a backstory. It is within Ramza's eyes and Orran's voice that we are given a different take on what has happened in this war (athough historically Orran's take in all of this is known and unknown; we have a slight clue on what he has endured and experienced in this war, but we have no bearing on what he actually wrote in the Durai Records). The widely perceived idea of this war is that Delita rises from all of this conflict and builds a new nation from it, and therefore he is considered the hero in all of this. As for Ramza, the individual that takes an invisible position in all of this historically, is the "hidden hero" to this dreadful war from the viewpoint of the gamer.

So, really, to classify exactly what is right and/or wrong is a warped perception. Maybe slightly futile considering this IS a war with many, many consequences. My suggestion is to just take the game for what it is; take it with a grain of salt.

[Orlandu]

Ramza is right, at least in my opinion. Because he is acting not for some selfish reason, he is trying to stop the war so there will be no more innocent victim like teta. Yes i know killing is wrong, but kill for self defense is not wrong.

Unlike Ramza, Delita wasn't right, he is righteous. He has almost the same goal with ramza, but with a wrong approach. His personality somehow like "sacrifice few to save many"

so, what is the purpose of this game is made if the character is just not right ?

because it's a game, not all main character of a game is right. it wouldn't be fun if all games have always a rightful main char.

[Algus]

but kill for self defense is not wrong.

So that mean the DeathCorps is not wrong either.

[Kaijyuu]

Yes i know killing is wrong, but kill for self defense is not wrong.

I'd say it still is, but still better than the alternative.


When you're faced with nothing but bad options, taking the least bad doesn't make it a "good" option. Just means it's the least bad.

[Orlandu]

if, and only if every story battle that occured in that fight could be settled just by talking. Then Ramza will do it, but in reality that's not possible. The easiest example is the battle with meliadoul, which ramza tried to tell her that he didn't kill izlude, but she'll never listen right?

if.. let's say you're attacked by some psycho killer in your house at night *LoL* and you have the chance to fight back with.. let's just say knife. What'll you do? pray to saint ajora and let him slice you up, or pick up that knife and kill him? and no, you cannot possibly aim to just wound him, except if you're a master swordsman that had a lot of experience with sharp weapons

[Algus]

i don't think that death corps was formed for self defense, iirc they form the death corps to rob the nobles. They're just like Delita, righteous.

Don't you remember the incident at Fort Zeakden ?
Golagros using Teta as a shield, so that mean he use it for self defense right !?

[LastingDawn]

Uh... he was Told by Wiegraf to let her go at the start of the Fovoham Plains, Golagros is a Horrific example of a Death Corps loyalist, he went against the leadership, and the Core Principles of what the Death Corps stood for by continuing to keep Teta as a hostage.

[Orlandu]

Don't you remember the incident at Fort Zeakden ?
Golagros using Teta as a shield, so that mean he use it for self defense right !?

my my.. it's a very bad example.. it's worse even. Even though for self defense, you should never endanger the lives of any innocent like teta.
By self defense, i meant kill or be killed scenario, and you're not the attacker, but the one in defense.

and as just sir LD said.. golagros was told to let teta go at the windmill shed, but he didn't obey wiegraf. If only he let teta go, and then he kill all attackers at zeakden (algus & co.) that is self defense for me =p assuming ramza and delita are already pulled back because they had retrieved teta.