Title: Axes
Post by: Argg0 on October 08, 2007, 02:21:58 am
Post by: Argg0 on October 08, 2007, 02:21:58 am
Well, Axes have been being the major problem.
We just can't find a way to make them useful.
We tried Double Strike... but it doesn't work correctly.
We are now thinking on Crush Punch or something chance on attack...
Still, these changes wouldn't make me grab an axe. I mean, sure having a chance to cast Crush Punch with 16 WP is nice, but the odds are that you won't see it.
On my squire SCC, I used Axe with one of my units from Miluda II to Lionel (first visit)... Power Break didn't kick in even once... I did however happen on play testing (aka, save state).
So, since we aparently can't remove the randomness, what should we do?
How about give lots of stuff to it? Like a Grand Cross or Parasite... but not statti. Damage stuff. Can we even do this? Each one having 25% to kick in and the being able to stack...
This other I doubt will be possible, but what if we give it the area attack like Triple Attack (from Hydra)? It would make a rather interesting multiplanel weapon and makes perfect sense for axes...
We just can't find a way to make them useful.
We tried Double Strike... but it doesn't work correctly.
We are now thinking on Crush Punch or something chance on attack...
Still, these changes wouldn't make me grab an axe. I mean, sure having a chance to cast Crush Punch with 16 WP is nice, but the odds are that you won't see it.
On my squire SCC, I used Axe with one of my units from Miluda II to Lionel (first visit)... Power Break didn't kick in even once... I did however happen on play testing (aka, save state).
So, since we aparently can't remove the randomness, what should we do?
How about give lots of stuff to it? Like a Grand Cross or Parasite... but not statti. Damage stuff. Can we even do this? Each one having 25% to kick in and the being able to stack...
This other I doubt will be possible, but what if we give it the area attack like Triple Attack (from Hydra)? It would make a rather interesting multiplanel weapon and makes perfect sense for axes...
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Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 06:08:55 am
Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 06:08:55 am
Could axes ignore shield evasion or something? That can be their "thing".
Of course, I'm not confident that's even possible.
Or maybe they could be weapons that sacrifice one stat for another: Lower HP for increased PA, lower speed for increased MA, lower PA for increased speed.
Could they damage both HP and MP? Chance to cut the enemy's level by 1?
There are probably any number of things you could add to make them useful so long as they have some kind of niche.
Of course, I'm not confident that's even possible.
Or maybe they could be weapons that sacrifice one stat for another: Lower HP for increased PA, lower speed for increased MA, lower PA for increased speed.
Could they damage both HP and MP? Chance to cut the enemy's level by 1?
There are probably any number of things you could add to make them useful so long as they have some kind of niche.
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Post by: Xifanie on October 08, 2007, 08:00:18 am
Post by: Xifanie on October 08, 2007, 08:00:18 am
Well for them to pierce evasion would mean to make them gun, which Chemists and mediators can use. ;/
Give them a new formula, but they're very limited since you have to use general abilities formulas.
Axes with Holy Sword Formula = axes dealing constant WP * PA damage and 100% chance of inflicting any status you wish.
Normally it's 25% per status and the same goes with magic.
Sadly you cannot determine a new attack range using any ability. The game has 4 specific flags just for that, But I feel that's not enough.
Give them a new formula, but they're very limited since you have to use general abilities formulas.
Axes with Holy Sword Formula = axes dealing constant WP * PA damage and 100% chance of inflicting any status you wish.
Normally it's 25% per status and the same goes with magic.
Sadly you cannot determine a new attack range using any ability. The game has 4 specific flags just for that, But I feel that's not enough.
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Post by: goldblade0 on October 08, 2007, 10:03:43 am
Post by: goldblade0 on October 08, 2007, 10:03:43 am
I have an idea for axes. Since the axes are heavy 2 handed ones how about they have a chance of breaking the opponents shield?
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Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 10:11:51 am
Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 10:11:51 am
Is there a way to make them add Chicken for one turn? That would be fun =p
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Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 10:45:17 am
Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 10:45:17 am
I kinda like axes as they are now, though I must admit the Power Break hasn't kicked in yet for me...
Btw goldblade, axes are now 1-handed
Chicken, although I'm sure it would be fun, is just out right ridiculous.
Btw goldblade, axes are now 1-handed
Chicken, although I'm sure it would be fun, is just out right ridiculous.
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Post by: Xifanie on October 08, 2007, 11:12:29 am
Post by: Xifanie on October 08, 2007, 11:12:29 am
Slasher + 25% Shellbust Stab = Win
Chicken for one turn is no problem and even if it's such a odd idea, I want it. =D
Chicken for one turn is no problem and even if it's such a odd idea, I want it. =D
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Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 11:50:51 am
Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 11:50:51 am
Since at the beginning of the target's next turn s/he would turn back, it could be like a temporary Defense Down, for your second axe hit and whoever gets a turn before the enemy
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Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 02:07:17 pm
Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 02:07:17 pm
We should do it. Who is in favor of Slasher w/ 25% Shellbust Stab, add: Chicken? I am.
It will look ridiculous though.
It will look ridiculous though.
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Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 02:45:16 pm
Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 02:45:16 pm
Hehe sounds fun =D
Are axes TwoSwordsable?
Are axes TwoSwordsable?
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Post by: Xifanie on October 08, 2007, 03:28:53 pm
Post by: Xifanie on October 08, 2007, 03:28:53 pm
=o
You misunderstood. It's one or the other, not both.
You misunderstood. It's one or the other, not both.
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Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 04:34:44 pm
Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 04:34:44 pm
Oh, I'd prefer Shellbust Stab then.
And I don't believe axes are TwoSwordable, they are only TwoHandable.
And I don't believe axes are TwoSwordable, they are only TwoHandable.
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Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 07:28:55 pm
Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 07:28:55 pm
Well you could probably add in a new axe, use that wasted sword since there were the 3 10WP weapons. Make it be like a Chicken Axe, and yeah...would work perfectly if axes were made to be 2Swords, first Chicken, then whack them with the Slasher. Don't make it a joke weapon like Nagrarok, possibly...10-12 WP? Or give it a bonus like 1+ PA
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Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 08:22:00 pm
Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 08:22:00 pm
I like the chicken idea myself but I don't really like the sound of them being 2 swordable.
two-swords is just thoughtless in a lot of ways. It's almost always the dominant choice for your character's setup. It'd be better to come up with some novel ideas that would make non 2S setups just as appealing to the player.
two-swords is just thoughtless in a lot of ways. It's almost always the dominant choice for your character's setup. It'd be better to come up with some novel ideas that would make non 2S setups just as appealing to the player.
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Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 08:24:12 pm
Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 08:24:12 pm
But that's what would make Chicken most effective. Dunno really...
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Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 08:47:42 pm
Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 08:47:42 pm
But couldn't the same be said of all weapons that add statuses? You can't talk about boosting Chicken's effectiveness via 2-swords without starting a kind of ridiculous arms race towards overpowered weapon attributes. What else would be more effective if it were 2-swordsable, you know?
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Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 08:55:19 pm
Post by: Chrona on October 08, 2007, 08:55:19 pm
Yeah, guess so. The Chicken Axe still sounds like a fun idea though
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Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 09:14:45 pm
Post by: Asmo X on October 08, 2007, 09:14:45 pm
I'm all for the chicken axe. Here's hoping people would still want to use it instead of 2-Swordsing something else.
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Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 09:21:22 pm
Post by: VincentCraven on October 08, 2007, 09:21:22 pm
Geomancer ftw.
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Post by: karsten on October 09, 2007, 02:16:18 am
Post by: karsten on October 09, 2007, 02:16:18 am
how about giving the axe wielder inherent concentrate? can it be done?
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Post by: Xifanie on October 09, 2007, 05:07:05 pm
Post by: Xifanie on October 09, 2007, 05:07:05 pm
Nah. That's within the gun's formula.
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Post by: Asmo X on October 09, 2007, 10:05:18 pm
Post by: Asmo X on October 09, 2007, 10:05:18 pm
You wanted to change all the axes right? One could have Chicken and one could have Shellbust stab.
Also, if Shellbust Stab triggers and the quote comes up, whose profile will it be?
Also, if Shellbust Stab triggers and the quote comes up, whose profile will it be?
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Post by: VincentCraven on October 09, 2007, 10:45:47 pm
Post by: VincentCraven on October 09, 2007, 10:45:47 pm
I believe we already have Power Break on Battle Axe and Pitfall on Giant Axe.
The quote shouldn't come up because it is an effect of the attack command. Have you ever seen any magic gun wielder give a quote before or during their gunshot? I haven't. And mages who beat enemies with their rods never give quotes to precede the magic that comes out. The ability name doesn't even come up, so there is no window for a quote anyway.
The quote shouldn't come up because it is an effect of the attack command. Have you ever seen any magic gun wielder give a quote before or during their gunshot? I haven't. And mages who beat enemies with their rods never give quotes to precede the magic that comes out. The ability name doesn't even come up, so there is no window for a quote anyway.
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Post by: Asmo X on October 10, 2007, 09:04:05 pm
Post by: Asmo X on October 10, 2007, 09:04:05 pm
Quote from: "VincentCraven"I believe we already have Power Break on Battle Axe and Pitfall on Giant Axe.
The quote shouldn't come up because it is an effect of the attack command. Have you ever seen any magic gun wielder give a quote before or during their gunshot? I haven't. And mages who beat enemies with their rods never give quotes to precede the magic that comes out. The ability name doesn't even come up, so there is no window for a quote anyway.
Touche
Is there any desire to even out the categories of weapons at all? Maybe toss in a few more axes via weapons from other classes that don't really serve any purpose.
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Post by: killer_bard on October 15, 2007, 12:21:12 am
Post by: killer_bard on October 15, 2007, 12:21:12 am
The idea I always had about axes:
speed penalty maybe, if possible, maybe slow. The hardest hitting melee weapon. Knight Sword formula, Maybe WP*PA. Maces? Bow formula....by different enemy levels add slow, don't act, stop, sleep.
just me.
speed penalty maybe, if possible, maybe slow. The hardest hitting melee weapon. Knight Sword formula, Maybe WP*PA. Maces? Bow formula....by different enemy levels add slow, don't act, stop, sleep.
just me.